"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=Mr Strict;1575345]I fixed that for you. A legitimate goal? Sure. A realistic goal? Not so much. I would classify this with finding Bigfoot:"We are pretty sure he's real because we've read about him on the internet". These POTs are lazy and looking to be paid for hanging around and breathing, nothing more. And isn't "a compensated non-sexual relationship" called marriage?[/QUOTE]I think you're overestimating the degree of willingness to strive for as much as they can get among those in that segment of the male population that do this sort of thing. Sure, most may [i]hope [/i]for more than arm-candy, but many of them don't have the confidence, or risk tolerance, to pursue more. I don't want to harp on strip clubs, but I've watched a [i]lot [/i]of customers in those clubs pay a [i]lot [/i]of money to do nothing but sit and talk with these women, including women who I know from direct experience are willing to do a lot more than talk. These same men will often either become upset at the suggestion that their favorite girl is a thinly disguised prostitute, or be unwilling to take the next step in availing themselves of those services for a number of reasons, whether that be fear of spousal reprisal, contracting disease, law enforcement, social stigmata, etc.

The set of men who go to strip clubs for sex is not, in my experience, very representative of the set of men who go to strip clubs regularly. It seems well within the realm of possibility, not far-fetched at all, that the same factor applies to sugar daddies.

[noparse]/[/noparse]z

After having interviewed hundreds of girls on the sugar daddy sites. All the girls agree on one thing. The direct approach is always best. Tell the girl exactly what it is you are looking for and exactly how much you are willing to pay. I get turned down a lot as I am on a tight budget. But after years of doing this I also have a few regulars and see about one random girl a week.

Most girls on a sugar daddy site don't really know what they want other than they want to have good chemistry for what ever it is they consider fair compensation. And this is where really talking to a lot of girls pays off. On the one extreme you have average looking girls asking for way too much. And on the other you have beautiful looking girls willing to take far less if you can show them a good time in bed, show some patience and understanding, and can offer some good conversation and advice.

There is also a contingent of girls under 25 that only want men over 50. Sometimes its more of a sexual fantasy and sometimes its more for the stability and maturity only an older guy can offer. Sorry, but most guys under 35 don't think the same as someone over lets say 55. I never would have imagined that I would be at the peak of my desirability at 58.

All I know is the demand from the girls far outstrips the supply of what I have to offer. Oh poor me. LOL. Once the girls have been out in the sugar world for any length of time they realize the odds are against them as there is so much competition. Part of that is living in los angeles. Where every decent looking girl in the world moves thinking they are going to break into hollywood one way or another.

But conversely in the more out of the way places its almost worse for the girls as the number of sugar daddies is much more far and in between. All I know is that neither the guys nor the girls need to settle for what they don't really want as there is ample enough supply on both sides. If you put in the time. To make everyone happy.

Typically they all have one friend that introduces them to this or they saw a show on tyra or where ever. And some do come straight out of the box and get lucky. But most do not. So if you are a good guy, are willing to be a little patient and not bs these girls too much. You will eventually find what you are looking for and for the amount you can afford.

I just start this SD hobby. I was trying out craglist which is all bot and no ready lady. Was wondering if anyone would like to help me out where to look for a good SB. Thank you ahead of time.

[QUOTE=Majest;1575566]I just start this SD hobby. I was trying out craglist which is all bot and no ready lady. Was wondering if anyone would like to help me out where to look for a good SB. Thank you ahead of time.[/QUOTE]Majest,

Welcome to the Bowl. What I (and many of the other members of this site, I'm sure) did was start here (

[url]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?9746-quot-Sugarbabies-quot-quot-Arrangements-quot-Amateurs-or-Not/page150[/url]

And read forward. You will get a lot of great information, inspiration, and entertainment (often simultaneously, for that matter).

That's my prescription for the newbie in the Bowl.

Dr. Feelgood

[QUOTE=Zomby; 1575471]I think you're overestimating the degree of willingness to strive for as much as they can get among those in that segment of the male population that do this sort of thing. Sure, most may [i]hope [/i]for more than arm-candy, but many of them don't have the confidence, or risk tolerance, to pursue more. I don't want to harp on strip clubs, but I've watched a [i]lot [/i]of customers in those clubs pay a [i]lot [/i]of money to do nothing but sit and talk with these women, including women who I know from direct experience are willing to do a lot more than talk. These same men will often either become upset at the suggestion that their favorite girl is a thinly disguised prostitute, or be unwilling to take the next step in availing themselves of those services for a number of reasons, whether that be fear of spousal reprisal, contracting disease, law enforcement, social stigmata, etc.

The set of men who go to strip clubs for sex is not, in my experience, very representative of the set of men who go to strip clubs regularly. It seems well within the realm of possibility, not far-fetched at all, that the same factor applies to sugar daddies.

[noparse]/[/noparse]z[/QUOTE]Possibly, but I don't think so. I just think the strip club experience is a much different animal when compared to the sd / sb experience. I feel that it is a different type of need that is being fulfilled at the club that has little to do with actually having sex with the strippers. Using myself as an example, and I admit I did not frequent the clubs on a regular basis, I never had the desire, past the fantasy stage, to bed a stripper. And it wasn't for fear of rejection or for any social or legal issues. I just didn't feel the need. The club for me was a place to hang with the guys, drink, smoke, talk shit and have a great time while looking at naked women. Nothing more. Now, if little Miss Fuck-Me-Pumps asked me into the back room for some nasty time, I would go in a heart beat. But look for it? No.

And I can't imagine anybody putting in the time and effort it takes to meet a decent pool of potential sb's and then pay cash, in some cases a huge amount, to just "hang out". There are anomalies in every group and I think these guys are the anomalies in the sd pool. And, IMO, are very few and very far between. But a girl can dream, I guess.

Thanks Mr. Z for your thoughts. I always enjoy reading your posts. As always, this is just my opinion and counts for no more or no less than anyone else.

Stay Safe.

Strict

i think some of you are blowing the legal issue out of proportion. as hernando mentioned, there's pretty much a miniscule chance you'll get busted for prostitution in the sugar bowl. i've haven't heard of a single case anywhere of a sugar daddy getting busted for propositioning an of-aged sb. again, as hernando noted police want to net as much johns as possible per sting. it's about arrest stats, revenue from fines, and sometimes election year publicity. going after sugar daddies who are located all over geographically and have erratic schedules for meets would take a lot more time, effort, and patience from le. it's a lot easier for them to create a bp ad and setup a sting in a local hotel and net a 10-20 local mongers in one night.

also when i negotiate over text / email, i don't mean you should be overly graphic. i never say "i'll give you 80 for a bbbj every time we meet and 150 for bbfs". what i do say is that i'm looking for an arrangement that has physical intimacy. and then later on i may give an offer like this,"how about i gave you a monthly allowance of 1000-1200, which i'll give it to you in pieces 200-300 per meet." no where i'm explicitly saying i'm paying for a sexual act. i'm just giving my sb a monthly allowance which i'm paying in installments or i'm just giving her money on our dates. nothing illegal with that. sure i'm making implications that part of the parameters of our relationship is that we become "intimate". but again that's not illegal and le would have a hell of a time trying to draw lines with absolute certainty that i'm paying directly for sex acts. otherwise le would have to arrest everyone who gets on one knee and proposes to his girlfriend to be his wife. using an expensive engagement ring as payment, the guy is proposing a relationship that with absolute certainty will have sex involved. in fact, marriage isn't even official until a sex act is committed. so it's actually very hard to draw a legal line of distinction between a sd/sb relationship and a regular relationship.

besides, if le really wanted to nab sugar daddies, they could very well have the sb wear a recording device and then have le grab you when you leave the restaurant. saying things face to face doesn't give you anymore safety than text/email if le really wants to get you.

but still, i think there's little to worry about. maybe down the line if there is some serial sugar daddy predator who gets major headlines, then le may take a bigger interest in this arena. but for now it's pretty much unmonitored. again, our biggest threat is making sure we avoid the **** babies. it doesn't take a sting for you to get in trouble, it just takes an angry parent / friend / brother / sister who calls the police on you. so tread carefully with babies in the 18-20 range. any baby under 20, i always verify their age by asking for their facebook page. usually this is enough.

and some people are misinterpreting me and think i'm saying i believe in "no m&gs". that's not what i'm saying. i'm just saying do a little more vigorous pre-screening before you do a m&g. before you buy her dinner / drinks and waste your time, make sure she's pretty much already down with the program. that way you're basically just using the m&g to verify her appearance and any personality quirks. and if everything looks good, chances are high you could proceed to the fc right after the m&g if time permits.

i'm just saying, i'm hearing a lot of guys here complaining about girls wasting their time or being no-shows at m&gs. so i'm just saying move the m&g to "stage 2 or 3", don't have it as your first step.

[quote=john g smith; 1576019]i think some of you are blowing the legal issue out of proportion. as hernando mentioned, there's pretty much a miniscule chance you'll get busted for prostitution in the sugar bowl. i've haven't heard of a single case anywhere of a sugar daddy getting busted for propositioning an of-aged sb. again, as hernando noted police want to net as much johns as possible per sting. it's about arrest stats, revenue from fines, and sometimes election year publicity. going after sugar daddies who are located all over geographically and have erratic schedules for meets would take a lot more time, effort, and patience from le. it's a lot easier for them to create a bp ad and setup a sting in a local hotel and net a 10-20 local mongers in one night.

also when i negotiate over text / email, i don't mean you should be overly graphic. i never say "i'll give you 80 for a bbbj every time we meet and 150 for bbfs". what i do say is that i'm looking for an arrangement that has physical intimacy. and then later on i may give an offer like this,"how about i gave you a monthly allowance of 1000-1200, which i'll give it to you in pieces 200-300 per meet." no where i'm explicitly saying i'm paying for a sexual act. i'm just giving my sb a monthly allowance which i'm paying in installments or i'm just giving her money on our dates. nothing illegal with that. sure i'm making implications that part of the parameters of our relationship is that we become "intimate". but again that's not illegal and le would have a hell of a time trying to draw lines with absolute certainty that i'm paying directly for sex acts. otherwise le would have to arrest everyone who gets on one knee and proposes to his girlfriend to be his wife. using an expensive engagement ring as payment, the guy is proposing a relationship that with absolute certainty will have sex involved. in fact, marriage isn't even official until a sex act is committed. so it's actually very hard to draw a legal line of distinction between a sd / sb relationship and a regular relationship.

besides, if le really wanted to nab sugar daddies, they could very well have the sb wear a recording device and then have le grab you when you leave the restaurant. saying things face to face doesn't give you anymore safety than text / email if le really wants to get you.

but still, i think there's little to worry about. maybe down the line if there is some serial sugar daddy predator who gets major headlines, then le may take a bigger interest in this arena. but for now it's pretty much unmonitored. again, our biggest threat is making sure we avoid the **** babies. it doesn't take a sting for you to get in trouble, it just takes an angry parent / friend / brother / sister who calls the police on you. so tread carefully with babies in the 18-20 range. any baby under 20, i always verify their age by asking for their facebook page. usually this is enough.

and some people are misinterpreting me and think i'm saying i believe in "no m&gs". that's not what i'm saying. i'm just saying do a little more vigorous pre-screening before you do a m&g. before you buy her dinner / drinks and waste your time, make sure she's pretty much already down with the program. that way you're basically just using the m&g to verify her appearance and any personality quirks. and if everything looks good, chances are high you could proceed to the fc right after the m&g if time permits.

i'm just saying, i'm hearing a lot of guys here complaining about girls wasting their time or being no-shows at m&gs. so i'm just saying move the m&g to "stage 2 or 3", don't have it as your first step.[/quote]i agree with mr. smith and hernando that the possible legal entanglements involved with playing the game of sugar, within the bounds of all players being of legal age, are very miniscule. le should have and do have bigger fish to fry. but, all it takes is one politician or enough complaints from a community to plant a seed.

scenario: i'll use richmond. article comes out that richmond is crawling with sd's "preying" on women, some very young. suddenly the 6 o'clock news picks it up. the mayor, police chief, everybody is hearing about it and it's an election year. hmmm. good opportunity to clean up the town and gain election points. place ads on various websites, work large number of potential sugar daddy's and schedule m&g's at staggered times in hotel bar. working 100 sd's. 20 (and that is very conservative) will show up and 18 will get nabbed. and there isn't a police chief in the universe that wouldn't give his left nut for arresting 18 "johns". yes, you just went from sugar daddy to john. and as you stated yourself, it's about "arrest stats", not conviction stats. that is just the gravy. they have their headline and you have your life and arrest record handed back to you in a plastic bag.

how likely is this? not very likely, i admit. and it would only net a large amount of "perps" in the bigger metro area's, i would think. but considering the time, money and effort le puts into saving us all from prostitution now, this could become the politician's newest flavor in sex related crime that need's to be dealt with.

mr. smith also gives the standard as to how one should conduct their game. a vigorous pre-screening, that includes confirming her age for the younger babies and that she understands her roll and is fully aware of what is expected, leading up to the m&g, is excellent advice. thanks john g. for reminding the membership how it should be done.

stay safe.

strict

Over the past couple of month's or so, the followers of the forum have taken a couple of swift kicks in the nuts (sorry Mandy!) with Hernando's relationship with his ATF being exposed and JoesParty contracting HSV-2 from his sb. It seemed to be the 800 lb sugar baby in the forum for awhile with no one commenting much, at least not what I would expect.

So, my question is: How and if these events have affected how you conduct your game. Has anyone quit? Doing things radically different? Or do you feel it just isn't a big concern and you have changed nothing. For myself, I stepped back and reevaluated how I was conducting my business and tighten everything up a bit. Obviously, if you're not married, being outed that way is a not real concern. But having work find out possibly could be. And disease is always a concern, and what has been stated before cannot be repeated too often: This will never be a 100 percent safe hobby. So, I was just wondering what is everyone's take on the whole thing.

Wrap him and Stay Safe.

Strict

I from experience, second the wisdom of Mr. HollywoodGuy.

About 20% of girls I dealt saw my maturity as a big factor on their decision to share their honey.

About 30% of the girls that I met ask too much. At least for me, over $$$. IMHO, these girls quickly learn that only a few pool of players exist at that dollar range and they demand return on their investment with acts or requirements that quickly scare and drive non-pros out of the game. Again, in IMHO, patience is our allied here. Once girls realize the going market, they are more likely to be reasonable in their demands as they find they have a bigger pool to interview for the chemistry that's so important to them with the safety they want and the honey they need.

I have also found a number of gals who happen to stumble into my ads purely for the fantasy of meeting someone who is into the game. Some success and with more time and effort, these gals may prove to be a steady stream of honey.

My last point is the "fantasy" or the need for companionship that we bring to this game. I have experienced a good number of the girls that I have dealt with are drawn to the experience be / see of the sugar but also because of the fantasy, the illicitness, etc.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy; 1575503]After having interviewed hundreds of girls on the sugar daddy sites. All the girls agree on one thing. The direct approach is always best. Tell the girl exactly what it is you are looking for and exactly how much you are willing to pay. I get turned down a lot as I am on a tight budget. But after years of doing this I also have a few regulars and see about one random girl a week.

Most girls on a sugar daddy site don't really know what they want other than they want to have good chemistry for what ever it is they consider fair compensation. And this is where really talking to a lot of girls pays off. On the one extreme you have average looking girls asking for way too much. And on the other you have beautiful looking girls willing to take far less if you can show them a good time in bed, show some patience and understanding, and can offer some good conversation and advice.

There is also a contingent of girls under 25 that only want men over 50. Sometimes its more of a sexual fantasy and sometimes its more for the stability and maturity only an older guy can offer. Sorry, but most guys under 35 don't think the same as someone over lets say 55. I never would have imagined that I would be at the peak of my desirability at 58.

All I know is the demand from the girls far outstrips the supply of what I have to offer. Oh poor me. LOL. Once the girls have been out in the sugar world for any length of time they realize the odds are against them as there is so much competition. Part of that is living in los angeles. Where every decent looking girl in the world moves thinking they are going to break into hollywood one way or another.

But conversely in the more out of the way places its almost worse for the girls as the number of sugar daddies is much more far and in between. All I know is that neither the guys nor the girls need to settle for what they don't really want as there is ample enough supply on both sides. If you put in the time. To make everyone happy.

Typically they all have one friend that introduces them to this or they saw a show on tyra or where ever. And some do come straight out of the box and get lucky. But most do not. So if you are a good guy, are willing to be a little patient and not bs these girls too much. You will eventually find what you are looking for and for the amount you can afford.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ILikeHotWomen;1574813]Did these "babies" have the same profiles before you met up with them?[/QUOTE]No. If they indicate anything that smells like GPS, I pass. But I do seem to be a catalyst for profile changes; several ladies have changed their profile once they asked me what I was looking for or "how does this work?" and I gave them an direct and honest (though polite) answer.

[QUOTE=Zomby;1575282]I don't think it's completely fair to say that [i]every[/i]one's time is wasted. It absolutely is a waste of [i]your [/i]time, and would be of mine if I was yet in search mode on this one. However, a compensated non-sexual relationship is certainly a legitimate goal, and there are guys out there who want exactly that, however ludicrous most, if not all, the posters on this particular forum would find such a thing.[/QUOTE]You are, of course, correct that there are some guys out there that would accept a non-sexual sugar scenario. But I strongly doubt that there are any in my neck of the woods. This being the South and the buckle of the bible belt, it's pretty much social suicide for a guy to be seen in public with a half-his-age piece of arm candy. That can fly in cosmopolitan places that are used to it, like LA or NYC, but this ain't that sort of place. Hell, a couple weekends ago I was sitting in the waiting area of an restaurant on the other side of town, waiting for a pot to arrive for a M&G, when in walked a woman that's on a civic committee I'm on (I caught the pot outside and we went elsewhere.) That's even more true for the married SDs. As someone else said, if I want arm candy for some social event, she needs to be at least 40 (and I have several friends that can and have served in that capacity.)

So while a non-sexual connection may be a valid desire for some sexy young thing, it's probably not be a realistic one in many places.

I'm in san diego CA, what is the best site to find a good sugar baby in local areas? Email me

YMMV. I don't have much luck in San Diego. In both SA and SD4M. I suggest you try. .

[QUOTE=Albert619;1576258]I'm in san diego CA, what is the best site to find a good sugar baby in local areas? Email me[/QUOTE]

Preface: IANAL.

That said, I think legal worries are not a factor. The legal definition of the misdemeanor of soliciting requires specific things, which generally means an actual solicitation must happen to meet the criteria. Unless you are a fool, you're not going to blatantly solicit the girl at the M&G, and the cops are not going to invest tons of time and place an officer or CI in the risky situation of going to a private place alone with you to get to write a misdemeanor ticket.

But more importantly, there's a reason the solicitation and prostitution laws are worded as they are: the requirements remove all reasonable doubt that what's happening is *not* straight-up sex-for-money. Once you drop below that threshold, the slope gets very slippery indeed. What's the difference between a sugar arrangement developed with someone you found on SA, and meeting a random girl in a bar with whom you develop a financially- and sexually-involved relationship? How and why does the simple method of initially connecting push the situation over the bounds of legality? (It doesn't.)

In the end, *all* relationships are barter. Two people work together (or not) because they give things the other needs and need things the other gives. Somewhere along the line, those things usually include money and sex. If simply tying money and sex in a relationship was illegal, every marriage in the country would be a felony.

The cops are only interested in catching people in clearly-defined criminal activity, and the easier and safer it is the more they like it. While they might decide to try a sting op for this, it would have to be very carefully designed and planned and executed, all for the high likelihood that the cases would be dismissed. Much easier and safer to sting a bunch of poor working schmucks trying to pick up a streetwalker.

You need to empty out your inbox, my man. :)

[quote=john g smith; 1576019]i think some of you are blowing the legal issue out of proportion. as hernando mentioned, there's pretty much a miniscule chance you'll get busted for prostitution in the sugar bowl. i've haven't heard of a single case anywhere of a sugar daddy getting busted for propositioning an of-aged sb. again, as hernando noted police want to net as much johns as possible per sting. it's about arrest stats, revenue from fines, and sometimes election year publicity. going after sugar daddies who are located all over geographically and have erratic schedules for meets would take a lot more time, effort, and patience from le. it's a lot easier for them to create a bp ad and setup a sting in a local hotel and net a 10-20 local mongers in one night.

also when i negotiate over text / email, i don't mean you should be overly graphic. i never say "i'll give you 80 for a bbbj every time we meet and 150 for bbfs". what i do say is that i'm looking for an arrangement that has physical intimacy. and then later on i may give an offer like this,"how about i gave you a monthly allowance of 1000-1200, which i'll give it to you in pieces 200-300 per meet." no where i'm explicitly saying i'm paying for a sexual act. i'm just giving my sb a monthly allowance which i'm paying in installments or i'm just giving her money on our dates. nothing illegal with that. sure i'm making implications that part of the parameters of our relationship is that we become "intimate". but again that's not illegal and le would have a hell of a time trying to draw lines with absolute certainty that i'm paying directly for sex acts. otherwise le would have to arrest everyone who gets on one knee and proposes to his girlfriend to be his wife. using an expensive engagement ring as payment, the guy is proposing a relationship that with absolute certainty will have sex involved. in fact, marriage isn't even official until a sex act is committed. so it's actually very hard to draw a legal line of distinction between a sd / sb relationship and a regular relationship.

besides, if le really wanted to nab sugar daddies, they could very well have the sb wear a recording device and then have le grab you when you leave the restaurant. saying things face to face doesn't give you anymore safety than text / email if le really wants to get you.

but still, i think there's little to worry about. maybe down the line if there is some serial sugar daddy predator who gets major headlines, then le may take a bigger interest in this arena. but for now it's pretty much unmonitored. again, our biggest threat is making sure we avoid the **** babies. it doesn't take a sting for you to get in trouble, it just takes an angry parent / friend / brother / sister who calls the police on you. so tread carefully with babies in the 18-20 range. any baby under 20, i always verify their age by asking for their facebook page. usually this is enough.

and some people are misinterpreting me and think i'm saying i believe in "no m&gs". that's not what i'm saying. i'm just saying do a little more vigorous pre-screening before you do a m&g. before you buy her dinner / drinks and waste your time, make sure she's pretty much already down with the program. that way you're basically just using the m&g to verify her appearance and any personality quirks. and if everything looks good, chances are high you could proceed to the fc right after the m&g if time permits.

i'm just saying, i'm hearing a lot of guys here complaining about girls wasting their time or being no-shows at m&gs. so i'm just saying move the m&g to "stage 2 or 3", don't have it as your first step.[/quote][url]http://meridianstar.com/statenews/x681159809/supervisor-arrested-in-prostitution-sting/print[/url]

after many hours of searching this is the only thing i came up with. and in the end he beat the case.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy; 1576615][url]Http://meridianstar.com/statenews/x681159809/Supervisor-arrested-in-prostitution-sting/print[/url]

After many hours of searching this is the only thing I came up with. And in the end he beat the case.[/QUOTE]Interesting. And here's the official dismissal from the judge:

[url]http://slabbed.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/us-v-weiner-order-dismissal.pdf[/url]

To summarize what happened basically a guy was using SD4Me to find SBs. One of his co-workers saw him using the site and reported him to the FBI (what a dick). BTW, another co-worker just happen to be an ex-FBI official. The FBI then specifically targeted to go after this one man. They used two vice girls to basically entrap him. No one else was the target or pursued.

And there hasn't been a prior or future case against a SD aside from this case at the Federal level. The case reeks of a personal vendetta rather than some new FBI mandate to pursue sugar daddies.

Again, a SD isn't 100% immune from LE activity. But this case shows just how much effort it takes to catch one SD and they failed at that. They were hoping for a Federal charge to make it worthwhile because it's not worth the time and resources just for a misdemeanor solicitation charge at the state level, which usually only carries a $200 fine or 6 months in jail.

[QUOTE=FeelGoodMd; 1575816]Majest,

Welcome to the Bowl. What I (and many of the other members of this site, I'm sure) did was start here (

[url]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?9746-quot-Sugarbabies-quot-quot-Arrangements-quot-Amateurs-or-Not/page150[/url]

And read forward. You will get a lot of great information, inspiration, and entertainment (often simultaneously, for that matter).

That's my prescription for the newbie in the Bowl.

Dr. Feelgood[/QUOTE]Thank for the help, I will start form that post. Was kind of hoping you would point me to a site that is good at finding SB.

Maybe not that easy, but so far the "SBs" I've met have all been really sweet, well put-together women with good heads on their shoulders. None of them have sought that much in they way of sugar. They all seem to be more in search of quasi-relationahips without the strings. One is already in a non-exclusive (for her, anyway) SD / SB relationship and just looking for more action than this guy is apparently giving her. From a purely payoff standpoint, it seems like a complete no-brainer. Several of the other ladies I've met are looking for non-currency transactions like paying her utilities, etc. So far none of these ladies look like they want to have an actual relationship and don't seem to care if I continue looking around.

I'm not naive enough to think it's this easy all the time, but so far the complete lack of drama has been amazing. I shoulda done this 10 years ago. LOL!

[QUOTE=Majest;1576911]Thank for the help, I will start form that post. Was kind of hoping you would point me to a site that is good at finding SB.[/QUOTE]Do yourself a favor and read this thread from beginning to end.

You'll save yourself from making the mistakes documented so thoroughly here. But, if you want to take your chances alone in the wild, google 'seeking arrangement' and off you go. Good luck.

Dodgeboy, you must be a lot more talented or desirable than I am. This is hard as hell! I lucked out finding my ATF but I was also paying her a boatload of coin, at least for me. I think age has something to do with it. These girls want a "mature" guy but not old, and I think over 50 is a tougher sell for 20 somethings. I have to admit that I have a taste for the 20s and not an easier age group of 40 plus. I'd probably have more success in that pool.

Anyway, like our friend Scott was going through a while back, I am in a dry spell.

SDFM : I had a M&G with an overweight but cute girl, gave her some "earnest " money (sucker money) and she is in the wind. I got complacent and too trusting after being off the market for 1 1/2 years. What a Dummy! I am embarrassed but I have to take my licks from the board. A Question for you all. Should I pursue her since I know where she works and threaten to report heer to the healthcare regulation board since she is a massage therapist, or just take my medicine and write it off as a bad debt?

Asian : She has cooled off and is making up excuses, so I am going to let her go. The dreams of a gang bang are gone. Sorry gents.

Mr Strict : " How and if these events have affected how you conduct your game. Has anyone quit? Doing things radically different? Or do you feel it just isn't a big concern and you have changed nothing."

In my case hope springs eternal and I am continuing to ply my trade in hopes of finding another SB like my ATF. I am pretty picky though and I realize that I am eliminating a lot of POTs right out of the box. I have a 26 yr old off SDFM who sounds great and we have a M&G for this weekend, so we shall see how that goes.

[QUOTE=Hernando; 1577061]Dodgeboy, you must be a lot more talented or desirable than I am. This is hard as hell! I lucked out finding my ATF but I was also paying her a boatload of coin, at least for me. I think age has something to do with it. These girls want a "mature" guy but not old, and I think over 50 is a tougher sell for 20 somethings. I have to admit that I have a taste for the 20s and not an easier age group of 40 plus. I'd probably have more success in that pool.

Anyway, like our friend Scott was going through a while back, I am in a dry spell.

SDFM : I had a M&G with an overweight but cute girl, gave her some "earnest " money (sucker money) and she is in the wind. I got complacent and too trusting after being off the market for 1 1/2 years. What a Dummy! I am embarrassed but I have to take my licks from the board. A Question for you all. Should I pursue her since I know where she works and threaten to report heer to the healthcare regulation board since she is a massage therapist, or just take my medicine and write it off as a bad debt?[/QUOTE]I would consider the massage gal a lesson and wouldn't attempt to get her in any trouble. The last thing you want to do is be the recipient of blowback. If she's not going to cost you anymore coin then I'd leave it alone.

I don't find gals under 30 appeal to me on many levels so it doesn't bother me to shoot a little higher in the age spectrum. I'm in my mid 40s (and by that I mean high 40s) and in pretty good shape but it's not worth the $ to try fooling myself that I'm going to light up some 20somethings libido. One of the gals I've seen is in my age bracket and an absolute freak of nature in terms of appeal and appetite. She's completely awesome. I'm still not looking to make a change in my real life, but she certainly makes my off hours fun.

Keep swinging. Eventually you'll knock one out of the park.

Here are two SDFM entries I would stay away from.

1) # 33492411 Probably an escort and GPS. Asked $600 for a date and wanted to know how many hours

2) # 3234784 Cash and dash Wants free dinners and earnest money

[QUOTE=Hernando;1577061]SDFM : I had a M&G with an overweight but cute girl, gave her some "earnest " money (sucker money) and she is in the wind. I got complacent and too trusting after being off the market for 1 1/2 years. What a Dummy! I am embarrassed but I have to take my licks from the board. A Question for you all. Should I pursue her since I know where she works and threaten to report heer to the healthcare regulation board since she is a massage therapist, or just take my medicine and write it off as a bad debt?[/QUOTE]I say,"Hell no!" W. W. T. S. D. = What Would Tony Soprano Do? Ok, maybe not quite that extreme. Yet! But this b1tch needs to be taught a lesson and made to understand that this type of behavior is unacceptable in the Sugar Bowl, before she becomes a serial runner. I don't think I would start with the licensing authority but save that for a last resort. Does she know you know where she works? If not, just stroll in one day and say,"What's up?" If she knows you are aware of her work, stroll in and say,"I want my MF pu$$ e, bi7ch!" (Too Tony Soprano?) Anyway, it needs to be nipped in the bud and quickly. Disappearing is one thing. But if I knew where she worked, I would feel obligated to myself to call her on it. It's BS, plain and simple.

[QUOTE=Hernando; 1577061]Mr Strict : " How and if these events have affected how you conduct your game. Has anyone quit? Doing things radically different? Or do you feel it just isn't a big concern and you have changed nothing."

In my case hope springs eternal and I am continuing to ply my trade in hopes of finding another SB like my ATF. I am pretty picky though and I realize that I am eliminating a lot of POTs right out of the box. I have a 26 yr old off SDFM who sounds great and we have a M&G for this weekend, so we shall see how that goes.[/QUOTE]Glad to see you on the horse again, Hernando. Stay focused and positive, brother.

Stay Safe.

Strict

Met a couple of sugar babies. One was willing to go as low as $50. Willing to do covered FS and BBBJ (no cim though). Would stay for a couple of hours and allow multi pops. But I didn't like her looks. Too shabby. Another one is willing to do couple of hours for 100, and another one, a nurse at a drug rehabilitation center who says she's good for doing everything for some compensation every now and then. She did not mention any amount. What do you think this third girl might be looking for? Would she feel offended if I gave her a 100 every now and then (would work out to around 50 per engagement). She's hot.

" Would she feel offended if I gave her a 100 every now and then (would work out to around 50 per engagement). She's hot."

Hmmm. I've got to tell you, these low ball girls sound awfully much like SWs or at least Nando 1s masquerading as SBs. But whatever floats your boat. Maybe I come on too strong up front and you guys are better negotiators. I've met a lot of low life's who are GPSers all the way

I would discuss with her what your "ability " to pay is and offer your low ball monthly amount. That way she doesn't feel like you are devaluing her, but are merely paying the most that you can for her amazing talents and personality.

[QUOTE=Spitfire; 1577046]Do yourself a favor and read this thread from beginning to end.

You'll save yourself from making the mistakes documented so thoroughly here. But, if you want to take your chances alone in the wild, google 'seeking arrangement' and off you go. Good luck.[/QUOTE]This is sage advice from an experienced senior member. Most all your questions will be answered here, but you have to put in the time. If you are not willing to put in the time to even read the thread, you will certainly not enjoy the time and effort it takes to contact, cultivate and meet potential sugarbabies.

And if you still do not wish to study, remember: Google works.

Stay Safe.

Strict

[QUOTE=Mr Strict;1577957]If you are not willing to put in the time to even read the thread, you will certainly not enjoy the time and effort it takes to contact, cultivate and meet potential sugarbabies.[/QUOTE]Things are beginning to loosen up for me, but it has taken me most of 4 months to get my game back on after the breakup with my ATF. As has been noted by others, there seem to be a lot of new babies who don't get that there is a physical aspect to the Bowl, which is a sine qua non for most of us, I believe. This plethora of self-described "arm candy" makes for a fair number of coffees that lead no where, but I also believe that the m&g is essential to determine if the baby knows what is expected and is down with that, is not some nut-case (which I have encountered more often than you might imagine) , and is in fact appealing to both brains, the large and the small.

It takes time to land these little fish, if they are anything above Nando 1s, but the rewards, as has been said by many, are substantial and worth the effort.

Keep up the good work, my brothers, and keep up the excellent posts.

Scott

[QUOTE=Hercules78;1577405]Met a couple of sugar babies. One was willing to go as low as $50. Willing to do covered FS and BBBJ (no cim though). Would stay for a couple of hours and allow multi pops. But I didn't like her looks. Too shabby. Another one is willing to do couple of hours for 100, and another one, a nurse at a drug rehabilitation center who says she's good for doing everything for some compensation every now and then. She did not mention any amount. What do you think this third girl might be looking for? Would she feel offended if I gave her a 100 every now and then (would work out to around 50 per engagement). She's hot.[/QUOTE]A little more info would be helpful with this post. What area of the country are you operating in? Are you sure you are not just in contact with SWs pretending to be babies as Nando has suggested?

As for what the third girl is looking for, I'd ask her, not us.

Scott

Well, I have finally hit bottom with my ATF SB.

I found her on SA advertizing her wares. She was on for only 2 1/2 weeks, so I suspect she landed a Daddy in that brief time. I would like to see if anyone out there has encountered her but I'm not sure I'm ready to out her. Besides, if one of you is seeing her you wouldn't admit it anyway while things are good. I do wish her well but I hate it that she is prostituting herself. It's tough when you care about someone. It puts the whole meaning on a different level. I guess this will finally let me let go of her since I was thinking she was out there still pining away for me. NOT! She is banging another guy for an allowance.

[QUOTE=Hernando;1578143]It puts the whole meaning on a different level. I guess this will finally let me let go of her since I was thinking she was out there still pining away for me. NOT! She is banging another guy for an allowance.[/QUOTE]Perhaps this really will let you put her behind you. Also, look at it from her perspective, she was verbally and emotionally attacked by your wife, something in my military days I would have referred to as a "shitstorm" of trouble, if I've read your previous accounts correctly, and I'm betting that there's no freaking way she wants to chance that again. The easiest way to do that is to avoid you. It may, I repeat "may", have been almost as hard for her as it was for you, but she's decided that she can't afford to let the possibility of it back in her life.

I thank the gods that my SB and I have never made any bones about the quid pro quo nature of our relationship. Yeah, she's getting good sex, or is faking it [i][b]very [/b][/i]well, and I'm getting some pillow talk with a "friend" and fun conversation about topics I can't cover with anybody else, but in the end, kits about the pussy for me and the money for her. I have no intention of leaving my family for her, and she has no desire to take me in if I did.

To be fair, however "perfect" she may be for me in this one area, or how good she sounds to the rest of you, she is far from perfect in any objective sense, nor more so than I, certainly. Neither one of us would make any sort of good, even halfway decent, life partner for the other, despite how good for each other we appear to be for sex.

The reality is that both your former, and my current, are, and were, prostituting themselves. I personally have no moral qualms about that, nor do I use the word as a perjorative, despite what others, and the law, might have to say on the matter. It's a simple fact.

Take care, my friend, and continue to post your feelings and experiences for as long as it helps you to do so. And if my, or any other post here fails to help you, I for one will not be offended if you ignore me. (:

[noparse]/[/noparse]z

My friend, you have a connection to her that you need to let go of. Simply put, once you move on, find a suitable replacement your outlook will change.

She is going to replace you. You provided something she needed, the sugar. If the sex was good, Bonus! Your wife contacted her? She's done with you and it is seriously time to move on.

[QUOTE=Hernando; 1578143]Well, I have finally hit bottom with my ATF SB.

I found her on SA advertizing her wares. She was on for only 2 1/2 weeks, so I suspect she landed a Daddy in that brief time. I would like to see if anyone out there has encountered her but I'm not sure I'm ready to out her. Besides, if one of you is seeing her you wouldn't admit it anyway while things are good. I do wish her well but I hate it that she is prostituting herself. It's tough when you care about someone. It puts the whole meaning on a different level. I guess this will finally let me let go of her since I was thinking she was out there still pining away for me. NOT! She is banging another guy for an allowance.[/QUOTE]

Thank you my brothers for the wise advice and support. Here I am crying like a little baby but I did fall a little too hard. In this pursuit it is ill advised to get emotionally attached (listen hard Commander ). This feeling has affected my judgement. But as I said I think the discovery that she was out looking again has allowed me to move on, so I will. This will free up the block in my psyche that is keeping me from scoring a new SB, so on with the show!

[QUOTE=Hernando;1578396]In this pursuit it is ill advised to get emotionally attached (listen hard Commander ). This feeling has affected my judgement.[/QUOTE]Gentlemen,

The Cmdr has fallen so hard for his West Coast ATF that currently while on the east coast he has four SB's waiting to get on the fuck schedule. But currently is too busy with work and life stuff to fit them in. My apologies if this sounds like bragging.

I am polyamorous. That means I can love my Wife, ATF1, ATF2 & ATF3. And still retain the ability to function while pounding each and everyone one of them into the mattress. It is simply a matter of scheduling. ATF1 gets first shot at my time and sugar, then ATF2, then ATF3.

Expand your mind Gentlemen. And everything else will too.

SubCmdr Out

[QUOTE=Zomby;1575282]Bear in mind that these comments are from one who's experience in this is limited to [i]one [/i]person, albeit over a longer period of time. So take that for what it's worth. I don't think it's completely fair to say that [i]every[/i]one's time is wasted. It absolutely is a waste of [i]your [/i]time, and would be of mine if I was yet in search mode on this one. However, [b]a compensated [u]non-sexual relationsh[/u]ip is certainly a legitimate goal, and there are guys out there who want exactly that[/b], however ludicrous most, if not all, the posters on this particular forum would find such a thing.[/QUOTE]Just had to comment on an ongoing discussion here; I'm not into the sugar-bowl myself: but I cetainly enjoy reading this forum; I'm, like my regional compatriot Zomby, a life-long (40years) veteran of the stripper-scene in various areas of IA, IL, IN, KY, & TN. I've also been active, over more than 25 years, with a'm'p's & nonAsian e'm'p's & escorts in Cedar Rapids (IA) Paris & Nashville & Memphis (TN) Lexington & Louisville & Paducah (KY) & S't Louis (MO) & I've seen the vary same behaviors & mind-set from guys who are show-club "regulars" + I've heard stories from escorts whom I've spent "non-energetic-activity" time with; so I must say that I totally agree with Zomby on his contention following here-in:

[QUOTE=Zomby; 1575471][b]I think you're overestimating the degree of willingness to strive for as much as they can get among those in that segment of the male population that do this sort of thing. [/b] Sure, most may [i]hope [/i]for more than arm-candy, [b]but many of them don't have the confidence, [u]or risk toleranc[/u]e[/b], to pursue more. [b]I don't want to harp on strip clubs, [u]but I've watched a [i]lot [/i]of customers in those club[/u]s pay a [i]lot [/i]of money to do nothing but sit and talk with these women[/b], [u]including women who I know from direct experience are willing to do a lot more than talk. [/u] [b][u]These same men will often either become upset at the suggestion that their favorite girl is a thinly disguised prostitut[/u]e, or be unwilling to take the next step in availing themselves of those services for a number of reasons[/b], whether that be fear of spousal reprisal, contracting disease, law enforcement, social stigmata, etc. [b]The set of men who go to strip clubs for sex is not, [u]in my experienc[/u]e, very representative of the set of men who go to strip clubs regularly. [/b] It seems well within the realm of possibility, not far-fetched at all, that the same factor applies to sugar daddies.

[noparse]/[/noparse]z[/QUOTE]

Gentlemen,

I've only been around a few months, even if it feels like forever. I just wanted to post one final follow-up and to say goodbye.

I told my wife Monday night about my recent herpes diagnosis. In the last couple of weeks I decided I had a marriage worth saving, and in order to do so, I had to come clean.

She was (and still is) understandably upset. Yet she has not kicked me out and seems willing to work with me, one day at a time, to repair the damage in our lives.

I did not tell her all the dirty details, as doing so would serve no purpose other than to hurt her even more. Still, I have exposure should she ever find out the true extent of my cheating. So I'm not yet out of the woods, and I offer these final two take-aways:

ALWAYS wrap it up, guys. If you are sleeping with multiple women, at least one of whom you love and cannot imagine life without, please do not risk your health and hers by going bare. If only I'd accepted my own advice.

If you need to hide your activities from anyone else, NEVER use a credit card for anything. Toward the end, I started getting sloppy and used my card for hotel stays. If my wife finds these charges, I am toast for sure.

OK, I'll get off my soapbox now. None of these ideas are new, really. But I wanted to take one last opportunity to remind everyone that there can be severe consequences when we let down our guard.

Thank you all for your support, especially all of you who contacted me privately. Please take care and be safe.

Joe

[QUOTE=JoesParty; 1578701]Gentlemen,

I've only been around a few months, even if it feels like forever. I just wanted to post one final follow-up and to say goodbye.

I told my wife Monday night about my recent herpes diagnosis. In the last couple of weeks I decided I had a marriage worth saving, and in order to do so, I had to come clean.

She was (and still is) understandably upset. Yet she has not kicked me out and seems willing to work with me, one day at a time, to repair the damage in our lives.

I did not tell her all the dirty details, as doing so would serve no purpose other than to hurt her even more. Still, I have exposure should she ever find out the true extent of my cheating. So I'm not yet out of the woods, and I offer these final two take-aways:

ALWAYS wrap it up, guys. If you are sleeping with multiple women, at least one of whom you love and cannot imagine life without, please do not risk your health and hers by going bare. If only I'd accepted my own advice.

If you need to hide your activities from anyone else, NEVER use a credit card for anything. Toward the end, I started getting sloppy and used my card for hotel stays. If my wife finds these charges, I am toast for sure.

OK, I'll get off my soapbox now. None of these ideas are new, really. But I wanted to take one last opportunity to remind everyone that there can be severe consequences when we let down our guard.

Thank you all for your support, especially all of you who contacted me privately. Please take care and be safe.

Joe[/QUOTE]Do you think one needs to wrap up for BJ also. I always have sex w condom but I usually have BBBJ.

[QUOTE=JoesParty; 1578701]Gentlemen,

I've only been around a few months, even if it feels like forever. I just wanted to post one final follow-up and to say goodbye.

I told my wife Monday night about my recent herpes diagnosis. In the last couple of weeks I decided I had a marriage worth saving, and in order to do so, I had to come clean.

She was (and still is) understandably upset. Yet she has not kicked me out and seems willing to work with me, one day at a time, to repair the damage in our lives.

I did not tell her all the dirty details, as doing so would serve no purpose other than to hurt her even more. Still, I have exposure should she ever find out the true extent of my cheating. So I'm not yet out of the woods, and I offer these final two take-aways:

ALWAYS wrap it up, guys. If you are sleeping with multiple women, at least one of whom you love and cannot imagine life without, please do not risk your health and hers by going bare. If only I'd accepted my own advice.

If you need to hide your activities from anyone else, NEVER use a credit card for anything. Toward the end, I started getting sloppy and used my card for hotel stays. If my wife finds these charges, I am toast for sure.

OK, I'll get off my soapbox now. None of these ideas are new, really. But I wanted to take one last opportunity to remind everyone that there can be severe consequences when we let down our guard.

Thank you all for your support, especially all of you who contacted me privately. Please take care and be safe.

Joe[/QUOTE]I think I should clarify something, based on a couple private questions I've received. I don't know for certain how I was infected, though I do know by whom. I had both unprotected oral (receiving and giving) and BBFS. I know most of us avoid the latter but partake in the former. My outbreaks were in both the throat and pubic areas. So although chances of getting herpes (or other STDs) are lower via oral, it is not impossible. My doctor believes the oral infection (still technically genital herpes) was from giving oral. Herpes almost never (some docs will say it can't ever) auto-inoculate. In other words, you have outbreaks in the area (s) where you were infected. The scary thing is that my partner didn't have any outward signs of an outbreak or infection.

I just want everyone to make informed choices. I judge no man for the risks he takes, as I've obviously taken my own. I will forever live with these consequences, though.

Sorry if I've brought down the mood. I think that's it for me now. Stay safe.

[QUOTE=JoesParty;1578701]I told my wife Monday night about my recent herpes diagnosis. In the last couple of weeks I decided I had a marriage worth saving, and in order to do so, I had to come clean.[/QUOTE]Let me publicly wish you the best fortune you can make of it. Take care.

[noparse]/[/noparse]z

Joe,

Let me join Zomby in wishing you the best of luck and fortune, whatever that my look like, as you work through this. Thank you for your courage in sharing it publicly as well. Not to start spouting platitudes, but I have learned over the past 5 years or so as I struggled with an issue with one of my daughters that nothing in life is constant except change. The bleakest, darkest situation can improve, and while you may never be able to put things back the way they were, that does not mean that you won't be able to construct something new.

Good luck again, and thank you.

Scott