"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=WoodSlinger; 1566145]I have a very hot attractive blonde I spent a couple hours with last week. She's a desperate Nando type 1 I think. This text comes in last Thursday.

Told me she lives with her alcoholic dad that treats her like shit. Threatens to kick her out if she doesn't have her half the rent and she tells me he has done this recently.

They live in an apt community I am familiar with and this morning she tells me I can come over while her dad is at work,

WS out.[/QUOTE]Now here ar the bridge we are a bit confused. Or your little brain is getting more compute power than our starship computer.

1) she lives with her alcoholic dad that treats her like shit.

2) Threatens to kick her out if she doesn't have her half.

3) this morning she tells me I can come over while her dad is at work.

When does dad come back. When you are undressed? How quick can you tele transport yourself to your car, while your keys are in your pocket on her bedroom floor?

Please reroute power to the main brain. Engage

Got a wink and reply from a SB on SA. Scanning through the computer memory banks, data was spewed out that she did so on tow past occasions and each time a variant of the same story. Her modeling manager took her $ used and abused her, she is living with mom now and needs help getting an apt etc.

So I am just waiting to what the version is this time 1092233.

Engage of to new star systems

OK Brothers, I had a long chat with my Asian last night. She says she has a "problem". She has an insatiable need for sex and can orgasm for hours, but has not been able to find a guy who is up to the task. Her fantasy is to have two guys at one time, sort of a tag teaam so that when one gets tired the other is ready to step in and continue the stimulation. So I said I would throw it out to the brotherhood and see if anyone out there would be interested in joining for a fuckathon? The topic of multiple guys did not seem to turn her off. She lives in Va Beach but might want to do this elsewhere out of her home base where she is well known. There is no money needed other than securing a hotel room and perhaps wining and dining her. She would need to vet each person involved. I will check her out Friday and if she is not FOS then I will pass the news along.

Woody, I had a Nando 1 drug addict and while the money saved is tempting I would stay away from her daddy's place.

My Asian told me that she gets 100 hits on AM when her profile is active. So it appears that the F:M ratio is waaaay disproportionate for men. I'm lucky to get 1-2 answers

[QUOTE=Hernando;1566357]My Asian told me that she gets 100 hits on AM when her profile is active. So it appears that the F:M ratio is waaaay disproportionate for men. I'm lucky to get 1-2 answers[/QUOTE]When I am really working SA, I might send out 30 or more messages a week. The first few days my fake SB profile was active, I got something like 45 messages. They did drop off after two or three days, which is interesting to note. Makes me think there is a group of guys out there just like me, trolling for new babies every day. Still don't know quite what to make of this new intel. Maybe we should ask Mandy to put in her two cents from a Real Baby's perspective, since obviously I'm not going to follow up with any of these guys; although there was this one astronaut who was making 5 million a year and looked an awful lot like Rob Lowe LOL!

Peace,

Mindi

[QUOTE=EuroInCincy; 1566195]Now here ar the bridge we are a bit confused. Or your little brain is getting more compute power than our starship computer.

1) she lives with her alcoholic dad that treats her like shit.

2) Threatens to kick her out if she doesn't have her half.

3) this morning she tells me I can come over while her dad is at work.

When does dad come back. When you are undressed? How quick can you tele transport yourself to your car, while your keys are in your pocket on her bedroom floor?

Please reroute power to the main brain. Engage[/QUOTE]Good catch, Euro!

My advice would have been "what do you have to lose, hit it once and quit it if needs be". Never thought of Drunk Dad bursting in with phasers on stun, or worse! Definitely time to seek out other star systems.

May we all live long and prosper!

[QUOTE=EuroInCincy; 1566200]Got a wink and reply from a SB on SA. Scanning through the computer memory banks, data was spewed out that she did so on tow past occasions and each time a variant of the same story. Her modeling manager took her $ used and abused her, she is living with mom now and needs help getting an apt etc.

So I am just waiting to what the version is this time 1092233.

Engage of to new star systems[/QUOTE]Euro,

Images dot google dot com is a daddy's best friend. However it works, just copy and paste your SB's photo into the search bar. This one may be a real person, but I'm guessing not who she tells you she is. Not a wonder, since you already had her pegged as a scammer, but it does cut down on the wasted effort. I do this now as Standard Operating Procedure if the pics look too good to be true, which her's did, at least to me.

Scott

[QUOTE=FeelGoodMd; 1566084]First, ask yourself if her pussy is worth the hassle and potential exposure. What if she "accidentally" leaves your email on a string she forwards to someone else?

For me, the scenario you described would mean "Operation Shut-down," and I'd break off all communication with her (at the very least until her case of GPS clears up). Always remember that a pot SB needs you more than you need her.

I might also consider contacting the man whose email addy you now have and give him a heads-up that she's playing both sides of the street and doing it indiscretely. If I were him, I would appreciate the information.

What is the baby's SA profile I'd number. I know I'd like to stay away from her brand of trouble, and I imagine most of the other bowlers on the forum would as well.

Dr. Feelgood.[/QUOTE]I have long ago stopped chasing girls (follow yes) and she was put on the PNG list long ago, you will know here by her email handle LoveGee / LoveGee1. I'm not worried about my email address as it is a hobby email and I'm not married so little chance of it coming back on me (not impossible).

The thing is would you listen to someone out of the blue? While she is on my do not call list I do not want to antagonize her and end up on a list someplace and have to rebuild my persona.

In the end I'll probably get an email address on one of the services I never use and send him a short email but, I wonder will it help or will no good dead go unpunished?

[QUOTE=EuroInCincy; 1566195]Now here ar the bridge we are a bit confused. Or your little brain is getting more compute power than our starship computer.

1) she lives with her alcoholic dad that treats her like shit.

2) Threatens to kick her out if she doesn't have her half.

3) this morning she tells me I can come over while her dad is at work.

When does dad come back. When you are undressed? How quick can you tele transport yourself to your car, while your keys are in your pocket on her bedroom floor?

Please reroute power to the main brain. Engage[/QUOTE]FVCK THAT!

1) she lives with her alcoholic dad that treats her like shit. (So what?)

2) Threatens to kick her out if she doesn't have her half. (Which you are willing to provide.)

3) this morning she tells me I can come over while her dad is at work. (Good thing. Don't want to be plowing daddy's little girl while he's pounding Jack in the kitchen.)

When does dad come back. When you are undressed? How quick can you tele transport yourself to your car, while your keys are in your pocket on her bedroom floor? (Pretty fvcking fast with keys in hand!)

Please keep supplying power to the auxiliary brain and stay engaged.

Dude! Have a plan, show up and pound her into the mattress! Drunk dad ain't coming home from work. And how long you going to spend there anyway? Get in, do the nasty, several times if possible and GTFO.

Remember: If you aren't living on the edge, you're taking up too much room.

Or not.

Strict

The Contrarian

Gentlemen,

I've thought long and hard over the last few days about whether to post this or not, and I eventually decided that maybe my story will do someone else here some good. Maybe it will serve as a wake up call.

I just found out that my 18yo HYB is positive for genital herpes (HSV-2).

I also found out that I have HSV-2 as well.

I won't get into all the details, because they are largely irrelevant. But I will say that I am a smart guy who did some very stupid things. I hope and pray that nobody else is doing the dumb things I've done, or if they are, at least they're doing them knowingly and with full understanding of ALL of the risks.

I last saw HYB almost two weeks ago. We were both feeling a bit under the weather; me with a cold, her with a sore throat. We went to the movies, but one thing led to another, the little head took over all thinking duties, and we ended up at a hotel. To make matters worse, I entered her without a condom. I did not finish, but it is what it is.

Over the next few days, we each felt progressively worse. My doctor did a throat culture, and that's how they found it in me. The pubic bumps and sores appeared shortly thereafter. They gave me an anti-viral medication, which speeds the healing, and I have a follow-up visit tomorrow to discuss long-term therapy.

HYB was oblivious. She says she does not have obvious sores, so they never tested her for it. At my insistence, we did anonymous testing through www.tstd.org yesterday at a local lab. The results returned today.

I believe HYB contracted it from her other SD, because she finally confessed yesterday that she's been barebacking him for months. By coincidence, I had a negative test on September 13, which leaves only two other potential partners, both of whom I now have little reason to suspect. Plus, I was protected with each of them (aside from oral).

HSV-2 is a virus that has no cure. I will be stuck with this my entire life. It can be suppressed, to varying degrees, and outbreaks controlled with medication. But I always risk passing it on whenever I have unprotected sex. Although the risk of transmission is relatively low when there is no outbreak, the risk remains. The risk is also very low, but again not zero, for unprotected oral.

There is a high likelihood that this one terrible decision will ruin my marriage as well. I am currently working through how and when to tell my wife. I've decided she needs to know soon, as we were considering children in the next year or two. I will be lucky if she even considers keeping me around. (Thanks to the confidential brother who has been guiding me through all this.)

I know that in the interest of brevity I've created many gaps in the story and that you may have questions. I'll be honest in saying that I don't know if I will be able (or will want) to answer them all. You can post them here or PM me. Needless to say, my days in the sugar bowl are done.

All I can say is that I hope this is an eye-opener for some of you.

Regards,

Joe

[QUOTE=JoesParty; 1567144]Gentlemen,

I've thought long and hard over the last few days about whether to post this or not, and I eventually decided that maybe my story will do someone else here some good. Maybe it will serve as a wake up call.

I just found out that my 18yo HYB is positive for genital herpes (HSV-2).

I also found out that I have HSV-2 as well.

I won't get into all the details, because they are largely irrelevant. But I will say that I am a smart guy who did some very stupid things. I hope and pray that nobody else is doing the dumb things I've done, or if they are, at least they're doing them knowingly and with full understanding of ALL of the risks.

I last saw HYB almost two weeks ago. We were both feeling a bit under the weather; me with a cold, her with a sore throat. We went to the movies, but one thing led to another, the little head took over all thinking duties, and we ended up at a hotel. To make matters worse, I entered her without a condom. I did not finish, but it is what it is.

Over the next few days, we each felt progressively worse. My doctor did a throat culture, and that's how they found it in me. The pubic bumps and sores appeared shortly thereafter. They gave me an anti-viral medication, which speeds the healing, and I have a follow-up visit tomorrow to discuss long-term therapy.

HYB was oblivious. She says she does not have obvious sores, so they never tested her for it. At my insistence, we did anonymous testing through [url]www.tstd.org[/url] Yesterday at a local lab. The results returned today.

I believe HYB contracted it from her other SD, because she finally confessed yesterday that she's been barebacking him for months. By coincidence, I had a negative test on September 13, which leaves only two other potential partners, both of whom I now have little reason to suspect. Plus, I was protected with each of them (aside from oral).

HSV-2 is a virus that has no cure. I will be stuck with this my entire life. It can be suppressed, to varying degrees, and outbreaks controlled with medication. But I always risk passing it on whenever I have unprotected sex. Although the risk of transmission is relatively low when there is no outbreak, the risk remains. The risk is also very low, but again not zero, for unprotected oral.

There is a high likelihood that this one terrible decision will ruin my marriage as well. I am currently working through how and when to tell my wife. I've decided she needs to know soon, as we were considering children in the next year or two. I will be lucky if she even considers keeping me around. (Thanks to the confidential brother who has been guiding me through all this.)

I know that in the interest of brevity I've created many gaps in the story and that you may have questions. I'll be honest in saying that I don't know if I will be able (or will want) to answer them all. You can post them here or PM me. Needless to say, my days in the sugar bowl are done.

All I can say is that I hope this is an eye-opener for some of you.

Regards,

Joe[/QUOTE]I have seen 3 diff, post just to day! About that kind of thing. Is makeing Me rethink all this.

Thanks for sharing Joe. It's very sobering to hear. And it's a big kick in the gut to see this happen to one of our brothers.

To be honest, anybody who frequents AMPs, escorts, and etc for any length of time (which is 90% of the people on this site) is going to have encountered someone with HSV at some point and it's pretty much just a coin toss on whether you contract it or not because condoms aren't fully protective of it. I've always assumed every sex worker has herpes because it's just so prevalent and easy to spread.

So the question becomes, can you afford to get herpes in your personal situation. I think what makes Joe's situation thorny is that his wife is still looking to have kids. Despite its negative connotation, herpes is pretty much benign aside from the initial infection period. The only serious health issue with herpes is if a woman becomes pregnant.

I know for my situation, I already have kids, no plans to have more. Giving my wife herpes wouldn't be good, but I've already at various points contemplated divorce. So if the marriage ended, it wouldn't be the end of the world. However I know some SDs / Mongers here are indeed happily married or at the very least looking to maintain their marriage long-term. If that's the case, you should seriously consider reevaluating the risks because herpes is so easy to spread, it's not really a matter of "if" it's "when".

Also for those of us in the Sugar Bowl, BB activities are a common place so our risks for things like this are even higher. What was sobering for me hearing Joe's story is that until this year when I officially got into the sugar bowl, I had never done any BB activities. In all my years of going to AMPs and seeing escorts, I think I got one BBBJ and never BBFS. Yet this year alone in the sugar bowl, I've had BBFS with three different SBs and BBBJ with every SB I got intimate with. The girls I had BBFS were between 18-20 and had very few previous sexual partners. But according to studies this is actually the highest risk group because they're least likely to use any form of protection.

The downside to the Sugar Bowl is that for some of us we get too brazen playing without a helmet. The girls we see just seem "normal" and since they're not blatantly screwing 6-12 guys a day in a hotel or massage parlor, we often forget about the real risks that are still there. I'm definitely guilty of this.

Joe I know you're in a rough spot right now. But you're not the first SD or will you be the last that has HSV-2, and many still play in the sugar bowl. Ethically you may want to limit yourself to covered activities but as mentioned before herpes is extremely widespread that I'd wager the majority of the SDs / SBs who've lived the lifestyle for a while probably have it even if they're not aware of it. Same thing for those that frequent escorts, street-walkers, and AMPs. It's the dirty little secret that rarely gets discussed on this site.

I'm just rambling now but Joe I hope you make it through your situation. It's definitely eye-opening and it has injected some hard bits of reality into this forum.

So I know that a lot of members that post here are from places outside of Richmond. I just set up a fake profile on SA seeing what all was out there and the responses some of these guys send the ladies. Heh Would some of you mind sharing some tips on which sites are the best for Richmond and what has given you the best luck? Feel free to post here or message.

[QUOTE=JoesParty; 1567144]I just found out that my 18yo HYB is positive for genital herpes (HSV-2).

I also found out that I have HSV-2 as well.[/QUOTE]Joe,

Thanks for sharing, and my commiseration as well.

A question: Did the test confirm HSV2, or are you making that assumption based on the presence of "genital" bumps, rather than facial ones? If you are, that is not indicative. I presume it's the test, but it's worth making sure.

However, I want to point out that you got a wake up call with just cold water, instead of the scalding deluge it could have been. I realize that HSV is no walk in the park, but something like HEP or HIV could have been worse, infinitely so in one case.

I'd also like to offer some hope. If you are lucky, you may not suffer very much at all. In this day and age, HSV, even the genital "2" variety, is largely cosmetic, especially with the medical regimens available today. My brother contracted HSV2 over twenty five years ago. Is first attack was the most severe, painful and ugly. His second attack wasn't anywhere near as severe as the first one, and after a year and only two more, the attacks have disappeared. He gets itchy once in a while, but no obvious sores. He hasn't had to use his meds for longer than my oldest child has been alive. (:

I'm not trying to say you have nothing to worry about, far from it, especially as regards your marriage, but it may not be the devastatingly horrible thing you might be envisioning right now.

Best wishes,

[noparse]/[/noparse]z

[QUOTE=Zomby;1568969]*** My brother contracted HSV2 over twenty five years ago. Is first attack was the most severe, painful and ugly. His second attack wasn't anywhere near as severe as the first one, and after a year and only two more, the attacks have disappeared. He gets itchy once in a while, but no obvious sores. He hasn't had to use his meds for longer than my oldest child has been alive. ***[noparse]/[/noparse]z[/QUOTE]I saw a report of a similar experience. The first outbreak was very severe. After that the guy occcasionally felt an itch coming on and he would resume the pills for a week. He never knew if the itch was the sign of a forthcoming outbreak. Nonetheless he took the pills for a week and there was no further outbreak. After a year or so he never felt another itch and never took another pill.

Interestingly, he had difficulty getting his Rx renewed. All he had was an itch. The doctor did not want to write an Rx without seeing an outbreak. The guy posted he raised enough Hell in the office he got his Rx renewed.

I would hope that this guy was joking, but I know there are is some weird shit out there. I set up a sb profile to see what kind of messages the girls receive and here was one I had to post:

"I want to experience being the toilet of a white girl. No sex, no drama, no risk to you. I will pay $800 each time I visit you and experience being your toilet. No sex. No friendship or even conversation needed. You can just come by to my hotel and use me as your foot stool and toilet and then leave. Only to return the next time you need to go. I will pay $800 for each such day.

Your brown skinned toilet"

[QUOTE=Golfcart; 1569476]I saw a report of a similar experience. The first outbreak was very severe. After that the guy occcasionally felt an itch coming on and he would resume the pills for a week. He never knew if the itch was the sign of a forthcoming outbreak. Nonetheless he took the pills for a week and there was no further outbreak. After a year or so he never felt another itch and never took another pill.

Interestingly, he had difficulty getting his Rx renewed. All he had was an itch. The doctor did not want to write an Rx without seeing an outbreak. The guy posted he raised enough Hell in the office he got his Rx renewed.[/QUOTE]What you read is pretty typical. The worst outbreak is always the initial one, and someone can have a "outbreak" (with an increased risk of infecting others) without any symptoms (even a "mild itching"). Condoms help during outbreaks, but may not always cover the infectious sites.

The doctor you referenced was an idiot, for that very reason. If anyone has had an HSV infection (1 or 2) it should be a "lifetime ticket" to his / her antiviral of choice.

Be careful, everyone. Remember that this will NEVER be a 100% safe hobby.

Dr. Feelgood

Well, good news / bad news.

I trucked two hours at 8 pm to M&G this girl at a hotel bar. She was coughing and relatively inscrutable, but attractive enough. We had a drink and chatted. Or at least I chattered and she coughed. She obviously wasn't feeling it that night and I thought it was a bust because she sent me naked pictures and a BJ pic. When I got home she had emailed me and wanted to see me again. When we parted I made it clear that if we met again it would be in the hotel room so we shall see. I told her we had at least 3 or 4 candidates for her gang bang so she just smiled. We'll see if she is all talk or not.

SDFM: I have a M&G scheduled tomorrow night and if the price is right I think it could be good. She was in a 2 year SD relationship so she wants the long term thing that I do. She is mid 20s and very hot looking in a girl next door way.

ATF : I continue to beat my head against the wall trying to lure her back. I'm beginning to lose hope but I will keep trying until she gets a restraining order LOL. I text or email her every week or so so I wouldn't call it harassment. I hope she doesn't.

My apt has all kinds of hot babes but I need to figure out how to meet them. Everybody keeps pretty much to themselves there.

Tonight I have a date with one of my 2 fav escorts to at least get the pumps drained until I can line up a regular.

Years of watching this thread, but never really thought about getting in because I don't trust pay sites and therefore never tried SA or SD4Me or any of the other sites. However, I did post an ad on CL that was heavily implying the sort of arrangement I was looking for.

2 ladies answered. One was a lady in her mid 40s, blonde, nice rack, killer bod. Definitely not a pro. The other was likely a pro, much younger, who was looking to move to another series.

In short order both ladies proved their worth and had my toes tapping in a minimum amount of time. Both met me at my "home", where small take gave way to light kissing which graduated to heavy kissing and soon we'd retired to the bedroom. I think the older of the two is probably just looking for a fun distraction from dealing with her miserable ex. We do a good bit of commiserating about our past and present circumstances. We also do a good deal of kissing and touching. Lots more fun than the classic pay for play scenario. The whole thing has more the feel of an affair, but with the financial aspect to keep it in perspective. To date I've never gotten texts from her at inopportune moments.

The younger gal is more into the sex and $ aspect and feels very much like straight pay for play. As a result, times with her are more regimented and mechanical. Given my choices, I don't call her much unless the older gal is out of town. We it not for the younger gal having the sweetest pussy I've ever seen, I would probably never call her. LOL.

Both claim to be unable to have children but I'm keeping the helmet. I find that most women over a certain age who already have a couple kids generally don't want anymore and have usually had some sort of procedure to make sure it doesn't happen but it's not worth risking an 18+ year commitment, either.

Anyway, I'll keep more up to date on this thread and have more to offer as time goes on.

Later.

DB27

[QUOTE=Dodgeboy27; 1572029]Years of watching this thread, but never really thought about getting in because I don't trust pay sites and therefore never tried SA or SD4Me or any of the other sites. However, I did post an ad on CL that was heavily implying the sort of arrangement I was looking for.

2 ladies answered. One was a lady in her mid 40s, blonde, nice rack, killer bod. Definitely not a pro. The other was likely a pro, much younger, who was looking to move to another series.

In short order both ladies proved their worth and had my toes tapping in a minimum amount of time. Both met me at my "home", where small take gave way to light kissing which graduated to heavy kissing and soon we'd retired to the bedroom. I think the older of the two is probably just looking for a fun distraction from dealing with her miserable ex. We do a good bit of commiserating about our past and present circumstances. We also do a good deal of kissing and touching. Lots more fun than the classic pay for play scenario. The whole thing has more the feel of an affair, but with the financial aspect to keep it in perspective. To date I've never gotten texts from her at inopportune moments.

The younger gal is more into the sex and $ aspect and feels very much like straight pay for play. As a result, times with her are more regimented and mechanical. Given my choices, I don't call her much unless the older gal is out of town. We it not for the younger gal having the sweetest pussy I've ever seen, I would probably never call her. LOL.

Both claim to be unable to have children but I'm keeping the helmet. I find that most women over a certain age who already have a couple kids generally don't want anymore and have usually had some sort of procedure to make sure it doesn't happen but it's not worth risking an 18+ year commitment, either.

Anyway, I'll keep more up to date on this thread and have more to offer as time goes on.

Later.

DB27[/QUOTE]My gun got blanks in it but still play safe.

Dodge,

Let me be the first to welcome you to the joys, frustrations, rewards and heartache of The Bowl. If you have not already dones so, I would urge you to go back to the very beginning of this most excellent thread and read it forward. Not only will you find a treasure trove of information here, hard-won on the front lines, but you will also begin to understand the effort and dedication it takes to be a successful, or at least marginally successful SD. There are many approaches, and many points of view; take what you like and leave the rest. Unlike any other thread on this site, at least that I am aware of, you will find the brethren to be polite, helpful, extremely supportive and willing to share, and pretty fuckin' literate. This is some of the best reading out there, in my opinion.

Feel free to PM any one of us, and be aware that we have a Sister In Sugar, (SIS?) who posts here as well, but she's totally cool, so don't feel restrained in any way.

Good luck with your new babies. I'm wondering if your young baby might start to lose her appeal the more into the non-pro scene you get. It really is, as you say, like an affair, especially if you can settle into something long-term. At some point, you might want to consider one of the SD sites like SA or SD4me instead of BP. In my area, the only responses I get are from pros or Russian dudes trying to get me to sign up for whatever that fake "verification" site is. Read back for opinions on all of the above.

Again, welcome, keep up the good work, always wear your helmet, and don't forget to write.

Scott

Well, I've forgotten how much work this hobby is! I have been seriously spoiled by my ATF who friggin' deserted me in my finest hour. They are all fickle and skittish and are apt to bolt at the slightest sign of trouble. It is still unreal to me that as close as we were (or seemed to be) she totally cut off all contact in the blink of an eye. It just showed me that she was into the $$ and ease of the thing and not truly "in love " as I convinced myself that she was.

OK, so 2 M&Gs and no pussy.

The Asian I still feel that she is righteous and will put out this coming week when I see her. Score no $ but Hotel costs.

Tonight I met a pretty girl off SDFM who showed up for dinner and drinks and asked for a good faith deposit with a promise to meet this Sunday. Did I get scammed? Time will only tell. Shs is 25 lbs heavier than her pics so a little disappointing, but lovely rack and worthy of a taste.

Bros,

After on SA for 3 weeks or so, I got 7 M&Gs, and scored 2 SBs. One SB was in adult film industry for a while (27 hot blonde) , and another was an 18 black.

For 27 yrs old hot blonde, the experience was pretty good. Until. While she was BBBJ, I was saying "Want to come in your mouth". She responded w/"Not with $$.5". I completely lost my mood, and quickly done w / it, and get the hell out of there. She contacted me back, and I told her I am not interested. She is not that cheap, and I don't need such attitude while I can get a better service (and hot blonde) going w / Pro.

For 18 yrs old black, the experience was pretty good (again) until. After done w / the 1st round (deadfish experience) , she was dressing up in a lighting speed. And started playing with her phone. Although she is pretty cheap, is not fun. I expressed my frustration with her. She texted me back saying that she will make it up next time. I told her that I expect that she has passion and MSOG is expected. She responded back w/$$$$. I ignored her afterwards.

So far, all of the pots I M&G with are all about $, and not into real SB / SD experience. One pot was telling me,"I don't expect to have sex with you, and I expect each date to have $$$".

Still trying, but slow down quite a bit as Sugar Bowl is time consuming and the return is not great. (part of the fun). Pro is much easier

Dog, I don't remember reading where you are from, but this SD hobby can be especially trying some time here in Richmond. I don't know if some of the other locations around the country are better or worse, but around here it seems like a high percentage of SBs on the site are pro, and at the other end, a high percentage want a relationship without sex. I think most SD expectations are pretty straight forward, but the SB expectations of an arrangement are all over the board. I find myself wasting a lot of time with M&Gs, only to find that the POT is on the site just to collect some spending money with no intent of ever going to the FC.

Just recently, I had a M&G with a 20 YO AA POT that was very beautiful VCU student with a great head on her shoulders. Very smart and very good conversationalist. When it got down to a discussion about physical contact, she said she was OK with some nudity and dry massage, but could never no FS or oral because she was saving herself for marriage. I respect that decision, but WTF is she doing on the SA site? I think we should start sharing some of these profile numbers on this forum just to allow forum members to save some screening time (not to mention money). This is a beautiful young lady and I have nothing against her, just that I wasted time and money on another dead end. For those that want to save the time, she is profile # 1215794 on the site. If you want a beautiful date with good conversation, give her a try. Of course as always. YMMV.

HS.

[QUOTE=Dog Rice; 1573341]Bros,

After on SA for 3 weeks or so, I got 7 M&Gs, and scored 2 SBs. One SB was in adult film industry for a while (27 hot blonde) , and another was an 18 black.

For 27 yrs old hot blonde, the experience was pretty good. Until. While she was BBBJ, I was saying "Want to come in your mouth". She responded w/"Not with $$.5". I completely lost my mood, and quickly done w / it, and get the hell out of there. She contacted me back, and I told her I am not interested. She is not that cheap, and I don't need such attitude while I can get a better service (and hot blonde) going w / Pro.

For 18 yrs old black, the experience was pretty good (again) until. After done w / the 1st round (deadfish experience) , she was dressing up in a lighting speed. And started playing with her phone. Although she is pretty cheap, is not fun. I expressed my frustration with her. She texted me back saying that she will make it up next time. I told her that I expect that she has passion and MSOG is expected. She responded back w/$$$$. I ignored her afterwards.

So far, all of the pots I M&G with are all about $, and not into real SB / SD experience. One pot was telling me,"I don't expect to have sex with you, and I expect each date to have $$$".

Still trying, but slow down quite a bit as Sugar Bowl is time consuming and the return is not great. (part of the fun). Pro is much easier[/QUOTE]

Having been burned by several of these "no sex" types, I've learned to read the signs a bit.

Lately, any girl under 25 or so seems to be a candidate; the word seems to have gotten out on the areas where young women congregate that they can find men willing to pay them just to be arm candy. Any girl that talks about "just having fun" is somewhat suspect - a lot of these youngsters define "fun" as clubbing / dancing / out-on-the-town, and don't grasp that (at least here) there's generally more stigma than benefit in a 50-something guy being seen by his peers in public with a girl half his age. But the #1 tell with this type seems to be when they say something to the affect of,"I'm brand new at this and don't really know what to expect." One girl admitted to me that she had read on a SB board that such a line was a safe way to lead into a non-sexual connection, and their attitude seems to be that at a minimum they get a free meal out of it so it's no skin off their nose. A couple have said things like,"any relationship takes time to get to intimacy!" (to which I remind them that this is *not* a relationship, it's an arrangement. We're seeking one thing, and sugar is a shortcut past the time, work and drama of getting to that one thing; if they're not fully on board with that, they have no business in the sugar bowl.) And while almost all are young, not all are; I had one mid-40's lady give me that dance.

When they start the "I'm seeking something non-sexual" line, I've learned to tell them politely but directly that they don't grasp how this works, they're wasting my and every other SD's time and to find some other way to try to make money. They seldom seem to get the hint, but let's face it. There's a certain level of selfishness in everyone who does this on both sides of the sexual divide, so it's to be expected.

Here's a few SA member #'s that I've personally confirmed of that type:

1213926
1209679
1198801
1187973
1132844

Hsrams,

Thanks! I am in San Diego, CA. Definitely a lot of Pros, but I was able to filter them out via several emails (Thanks for SubCmdr's mentorship!) Definitely a large variety expectations from SB.

Got a 37 Fat (her tummy sticks out more than her boobs). Asked for 3-5k / mth. WTF. Tons of hot pros are better than such pot.

Agreed about sharing some of the SA. Here are SA# I would avoid (either scam for a meal or no-sex or no-show) :

1209905.

1158310.

1189420.

1073424.

1190716.

1201777.

As always YMMV.

[QUOTE=Hsrams; 1573411]Dog, I don't remember reading where you are from, but this SD hobby can be especially trying some time here in Richmond. I don't know if some of the other locations around the country are better or worse, but around here it seems like a high percentage of SBs on the site are pro, and at the other end, a high percentage want a relationship without sex. I think most SD expectations are pretty straight forward, but the SB expectations of an arrangement are all over the board. I find myself wasting a lot of time with M&Gs, only to find that the POT is on the site just to collect some spending money with no intent of ever going to the FC.

Just recently, I had a M&G with a 20 YO AA POT that was very beautiful VCU student with a great head on her shoulders. Very smart and very good conversationalist. When it got down to a discussion about physical contact, she said she was OK with some nudity and dry massage, but could never no FS or oral because she was saving herself for marriage. I respect that decision, but WTF is she doing on the SA site? I think we should start sharing some of these profile numbers on this forum just to allow forum members to save some screening time (not to mention money). This is a beautiful young lady and I have nothing against her, just that I wasted time and money on another dead end. For those that want to save the time, she is profile # 1215794 on the site. If you want a beautiful date with good conversation, give her a try. Of course as always. YMMV.

HS.[/QUOTE]

I have run SB's on both coasts and down south. I have never lost more than drive & meet time along with the cost of a coffee or a drink with a pot SB. I tell all my pot SB's first meeting is over coffee or drinks. I loose a lot right there. That screens out the wannabes and the ones with GPS. In addition, I make them come to me. They must be willing to invest at least some time and energy into the arrangement. If they need me to pick them up then we are going straight to the FC. I've only had one pot SB come to the FC and then not want to put out. I sent her on her way with no sugar. I have been in the FC with a SB. We were both naked and she starts giving me restrictions and I'm not feeling it and have got up and left. No sugar. (Yes, she called me back and asked me to give her another chance)

Most SB's are looking for money.

Some are looking for the adventure.

Some are looking for sex.

A very small percentage are looking for a relationship.

All questions about what is expected is met with the response "We are both adults here. And I am looking for adult companionship." Straight up! You don't have to say it. The implication that the arrangement involves intimacy and without intimacy there is no sugar. If they need time to develop intimacy tell them to get on a regular dating site. If you don't give them anything useful up front (like a nice dinner out) then the M & G becomes what is should be: A job interview. Or you can look at it another way: It is the pot SB's job to convince you their pussy is the pussy for you. As a SD you have limited time and sugar. I do not allow fake SB's to waste my time or my sugar.

I'm the bank. They want a loan. All loans require collateral. Their pussy is just a invitation for me to return to make another loan. If they don't keep the banker happy then their line of credit is cut off.

As always, these methods work for me. They may not work for everyone. But I stepped in to the sugar bowl Jan 2012 knowing nothing. Everything I have learned about the Sugar Bowl has come from what I have read and what fellow forum members have taught me. I then crafted the methods I now use from my actual experiences and modified them to get what I am seeking.

SubCmdr out.

P. S. I have broken my own rules and become E involved with my ATF. I will now stand and take my grade.

Thank you guys for the no go list. I sorted through them and the verbiage is amusing to say the least. It makes us realize how much time is wasted with girls who will never be a viable candidate for the FC. Most of those girls are pretty attractive and its tough to be disappointed thinking that they are pots.

" I have broken my own rules and become E involved with my ATF. I will now stand and take my grade." Commander, you could be keel hauled for this ill advised move! Be prepared for heart break. Just ask Scotty and me about that. If you think girls are the only ones who get all emotional about an affair just look within these walls.

Tonight I'm going for a sure thing. My ATF escort is popping over for a little polishing of the underused apple. Yayy me! I'm thinking it might be worth the freight.

I have very similar screening to Subcmdr's. In fact I take it a step further, because my schedule and time is so limited, I don't even bother with a M&G with a pot SB unless she's already indicated she knows the real deal of a "mutual" beneficial arrangement. I don't believe in giving these girls free meals unless there's some actual potential. So over email / txt, I usually somewhere work it into the conversation that I need to mostly meet "behind closed doors". This tells the girl that we won't be clubbing around town or be activity buddies."No-sex" SBs usually ask,"what exactly would we be doing?" If they have to ask this, then usually it's a bad sign. However if the girl is okay with the idea of "Behind Closed Doors" and being "discreet", then usually she's down for the FC. Then the next step is determining whether if she has GPS or not. I generally ask if she's working, does she live at home, and etc. Then I might ask what bills she's looking for help with. I sometimes may make an offer at that point. She either accepts or rejects the offer, but it's over txt / email so I'm not out any money or time with a pointless M&G.

I recommend more of my brothers do more of your screening over txt / email. Let's stop giving free meals to girls who have a warped sense of what a "mutual beneficial arrangement" is. These girls need to understand that "arm candy" is someone who is very attractive and maybe just 7-12 years younger than us. Walking around with a girl who is 20-30 years younger than us, isn't "arm candy" that's basically walking around with our daughters. We're not going to pay 2-3k per month to do that. So let's just do M&G with pot SBs that already know what an "arrangement" means and leave the other girls at home alone broke and hungry. Maybe once when no SD will meet them for a M&G, they'll finally understand what the site is for. They'll either start playing by the rules of the Sugar Bowl or go back to Match. Com.

Having said all of that, YMMV most definitely. I'd be a little wary of ignoring a pot SB completely because someone here posts their profile I'd. Sometimes a girl may be "no-sex" with one SD but will be willing to go to the FC with another. Your game, your physical appearance / hygiene, and your allowance offer can all play a part if a SB is willing to be intimate with you. Remember we're also being evaluated, and some SBs may make the determination they may only be willing to be your arm candy because you didn't present yourself well. In other cases, if they click well with you, they'll be willing to be intimate and accept a more realistic allowance. I know this is the case because I've had several SBs tell me they do this and I've experienced it first hand.

So keep that in mind. If you've done your pre-screening through txt / email and she's given indications that she might be down for "behind closed doors" activities, then it's really up to you to seal the deal. And even in the pre-screening / initial txt / email conversations, remember to be a gentleman. How you communicate initially can significantly can affect the mileage you can get.

Dude you are funny as hell. Good job in detailing the rules. We need someone like you in the west coast as the rules you describe may not work in the SB capital of the world that is Los Angeles. I will have to read your posts to get better at the game as I am not in the SB yet but I am a 1-year graduate of the CL non-pro game. My observation is that the rules and best practices that you describe are similar to those in the nonpro game but with SBs, the stakes are higher the players are a lot more savvy.

[QUOTE=SubCmdr; 1573726]I have run SB's on both coasts and down south. I have never lost more than drive & meet time along with the cost of a coffee or a drink with a pot SB. I tell all my pot SB's first meeting is over coffee or drinks. I loose a lot right there. That screens out the wannabes and the ones with GPS. In addition, I make them come to me. They must be willing to invest at least some time and energy into the arrangement. If they need me to pick them up then we are going straight to the FC. I've only had one pot SB come to the FC and then not want to put out. I sent her on her way with no sugar. I have been in the FC with a SB. We were both naked and she starts giving me restrictions and I'm not feeling it and have got up and left. No sugar. (Yes, she called me back and asked me to give her another chance)

P. S. I have broken my own rules and become E involved with my ATF. I will now stand and take my grade.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=SubCmdr; 1573726]All questions about what is expected is met with the response "We are both adults here. And I am looking for adult companionship." Straight up! You don't have to say it. The implication that the arrangement involves intimacy and without intimacy there is no sugar. If they need time to develop intimacy tell them to get on a regular dating site. If you don't give them anything useful up front (like a nice dinner out) then the M & G becomes what is should be: A job interview. Or you can look at it another way: It is the pot SB's job to convince you their pussy is the pussy for you. As a SD you have limited time and sugar. I do not allow fake SB's to waste my time or my sugar.

I'm the bank. They want a loan. All loans require collateral. Their pussy is just a invitation for me to return to make another loan. If they don't keep the banker happy then their line of credit is cut off.[/QUOTE]This. I cannot agree more with the Commander. They are interviewing for a position, period. And they should be made aware of that and proceed accordingly. I do not and will not pay someone to interview them. If they are looking for payment at the first M&G, beyond a drink or coffee, what does that say for how any arrangement would be handled? And all of our time is valuable and in short supply, so, don't give me that excuse. Would she say that to the bank if she were getting a car loan? Highly doubt it. Now, this doesn't mean one should not conduct themselves like a gentleman. Not at all. But when the talk turns to "payment by the minute", I immediately give the "Good luck" and she is kicked into the heap. If she changes her mind later, we can talk. But I move on immediately.

[QUOTE=John G Smith;1574111]Having said all of that, YMMV most definitely. I'd be a little wary of ignoring a pot SB completely because someone here posts their profile I'd. Sometimes a girl may be "no-sex" with one SD but will be willing to go to the FC with another. Your game, your physical appearance / hygiene, and your allowance offer can all play a part if a SB is willing to be intimate with you. Remember we're also being evaluated, and some SBs may make the determination they may only be willing to be your arm candy because you didn't present yourself well. In other cases, if they click well with you, they'll be willing to be intimate and accept a more realistic allowance. I know this is the case because I've had several SBs tell me they do this and I've experienced it first hand.[/QUOTE]I agree with this but suggest taking it a step further. Just because something didn't work out is one thing. Let the next guy give it a shot. It's the scams, flakes, no-shows and total train wrecks that we should post, in my somewhat humble opinion. And then there is this:

1187973.

Wow. Honestly, would any in the brotherhood want to get wrapped up in this? Lives in BF Virginia, is at least 50 (listed 43, so, add at least 8) , you ain't getting laid because she's not a "WH@RE"", a total nando-1 with stretch marks and comes across as a total cvnt in her post! It would be like paying by the minute to be with my ex-wife. *shudder*

[QUOTE=SubCmdr; 1573726]SubCmdr out.

P. S. I have broken my own rules and become E involved with my ATF. I will now stand and take my grade.[/QUOTE]You poor bastard. May the god of Sugar have mercy on your soul.

Stay safe.

Strict

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;1573726]P. S. I have broken my own rules and become E involved with my ATF. I will now stand and take my grade.[/QUOTE]Sub,

As I see it, you have two choices at this point - pull back and hope to avoid heartache down the line, but possibly at the expense of some really fantastic times, or damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead! As one who knows, the pain is intense when the end finally comes, but it does diminish with time. An old heart breaks into more pieces than a younger one, apparently, but it can still be mended.

As has been said, may the god of the Sugar Bowl have mercy.

Scott

[QUOTE=Mr Strict; 1574593]And then there is this:

1187973.[/QUOTE]LOL! I talked to this one. Typical redneck princess, thinks her sh! T is rainbow colored and her puss made of gold. She's been on the site for at least 6 months, and admits in her profile she's met only one "loser". My guess is that she's too stupid to figure out why she's getting no interest.

Did these "babies" have the same profiles before you met up with them? All the "friendship" first, but I still want cash sounds like they are trying to tease and get paid, which I have to admit is smart on their part in getting more $$ out of people. It does seem like a lot of them give the impression that you are going to have to pay awhile first before you get anything. The 43 yr old profile is especially funny, and I doubt she will get much response to such an ad. I don't know what she is thinking and maybe she could have gotten away with a profile like that 20 yrs ago, but I really doubt it now. As for the sb profile I have for entertainment / educational purposes, I have now had about 40 emails, mostly from married types, and nothing out of the expected except for the one I posted earlier.

[QUOTE=CantWinLosin; 1573496]Having been burned by several of these "no sex" types, I've learned to read the signs a bit.

Lately, any girl under 25 or so seems to be a candidate; the word seems to have gotten out on the areas where young women congregate that they can find men willing to pay them just to be arm candy. Any girl that talks about "just having fun" is somewhat suspect. A lot of these youngsters define "fun" as clubbing / dancing / out-on-the-town, and don't grasp that (at least here) there's generally more stigma than benefit in a 50-something guy being seen by his peers in public with a girl half his age. But the #1 tell with this type seems to be when they say something to the affect of,"I'm brand new at this and don't really know what to expect." One girl admitted to me that she had read on a SB board that such a line was a safe way to lead into a non-sexual connection, and their attitude seems to be that at a minimum they get a free meal out of it so it's no skin off their nose. A couple have said things like,"any relationship takes time to get to intimacy!" (to which I remind them that this is *not* a relationship, it's an arrangement. We're seeking one thing, and sugar is a shortcut past the time, work and drama of getting to that one thing; if they're not fully on board with that, they have no business in the sugar bowl.) And while almost all are young, not all are; I had one mid-40's lady give me that dance.

When they start the "I'm seeking something non-sexual" line, I've learned to tell them politely but directly that they don't grasp how this works, they're wasting my and every other SD's time and to find some other way to try to make money. They seldom seem to get the hint, but let's face it. There's a certain level of selfishness in everyone who does this on both sides of the sexual divide, so it's to be expected.

Here's a few SA member #'s that I've personally confirmed of that type:

1213926.

1209679.

1198801.

1187973.

1132844[/QUOTE]

Woow. 40+ GPS.

I experienced 3 40+ GPS. Not sure what they are thinking. One of them requested me to provide my work information before M&G because she does not feel safe.

Bear in mind that these comments are from one who's experience in this is limited to [i]one [/i]person, albeit over a longer period of time. So take that for what it's worth.

[QUOTE=CantWinLosin;1573496]When they start the "I'm seeking something non-sexual" line, I've learned to tell them politely but directly that they don't grasp how this works, they're wasting my and every other SD's time and to find some other way to try to make money. They seldom seem to get the hint, but let's face it. There's a certain level of selfishness in everyone who does this on both sides of the sexual divide, so it's to be expected.[/QUOTE]I don't think it's completely fair to say that [i]every[/i]one's time is wasted. It absolutely is a waste of [i]your [/i]time, and would be of mine if I was yet in search mode on this one. However, a compensated non-sexual relationship is certainly a legitimate goal, and there are guys out there who want exactly that, however ludicrous most, if not all, the posters on this particular forum would find such a thing.

SubCmdr has some good guidelines in his response to this one; if the significant sugar doesn't flow until [i]her [/i]sugar flows, it's less likely that these "platonic" types will take you for more than, as he suggests, coffee or drinks.

I do suspect, though not of experience in the Sugar Bowl, that M&Gs are, at some stage, a necessary component of verifying a POT's intentions with any certainty. Others might feel differently, I believe John G Smith does, but since what most of us want is essentially illegal in most places in this country, setting forth conditions in email, text, or even over the phone seems like a somewhat less than prudent course of action. Hell, even after all this time, my SB and I don't mention sex or money in our texts, though we do sometimes do some sexy talk on the phone. In my case, this is a holdover from dealing with strippers, but I think it applies in any area where you're talking about borderline, if not outright, illegal stuff. You just don't talk except face to face, and often, after both are already naked. (:

[noparse]/[/noparse]z

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;1573726]P. S. I have broken my own rules and become E involved with my ATF. I will now stand and take my grade.[/QUOTE]I don't think it's possible to avoid this over the long haul. Human males seem to be hardwired to morph sexual attraction into a certain affection, at the very least, over time. It's not something over which you can exert much in the way of conscious control. The best you can do is be careful about paying attention to the signs that it's happening.

After three years, I'm not even going to pretend that there's not a fairly significant degree of affection on my part for my SB. Is it love? If anyone has ever successfully defined that emotion, let me know. I'm sure some would call it that. I'm certainly not going to leave my wife for her, but there's quite a bit else I would do.

As for the other direction, I'm sure there's some, but she doesn't let it get in her way. (: Women don't seem to suffer from this problem to the same degree as men. (:

Though I'd be interested in hearing what the resident sugar baby has to offer on that issue.

[noparse]/[/noparse]z

[QUOTE=Zomby;1575282]I don't think it's completely fair to say that [i]every[/i]one's time is wasted. It absolutely is a waste of [i]your [/i]time, and would be of mine if I was yet in search mode on this one. However, a compensated non-sexual relationship is certainly a legitimate goal, and [b]there is a guy out there who wants exactly that[/b], however ludicrous most, if not all, the posters on this particular forum would find such a thing.[/QUOTE]I fixed that for you. A legitimate goal? Sure. A realistic goal? Not so much. I would classify this with finding Bigfoot:"We are pretty sure he's real because we've read about him on the internet". These POTs are lazy and looking to be paid for hanging around and breathing, nothing more. And isn't "a compensated non-sexual relationship" called marriage?

[QUOTE=Zomby;1575282]I do suspect, though not of experience in the Sugar Bowl, that M&Gs are, at some stage, a necessary component of verifying a POT's intentions with any certainty. Others might feel differently, I believe John G Smith does, but since what most of us want is essentially illegal in most places in this country, setting forth conditions in email, text, or even over the phone seems like a somewhat less than prudent course of action. Hell, even after all this time, my SB and I don't mention sex or money in our texts, though we do sometimes do some sexy talk on the phone. In my case, this is a holdover from dealing with strippers, but I think it applies in any area where you're talking about borderline, if not outright, illegal stuff. You just don't talk except face to face, and often, after both are already naked. (:[/QUOTE]Verifying a POT's intentions and looks! How often has someone reported on the forum that the potential sb shows up 20 lbs heavier or 10 years older that the pic's she sends? The small blond 19 yo country girl turns out to be the chunky. 27 yo black haired goth."I just haven't updated my pic's lately." IMO, one can only go so far with text, email and phone calls. M&G's have there place. I personally want a face-to-face confirmation before moving forward and if all it costs me is the price of a drink or coffee, small price to pay. And who wants to be front page news when LE decides that this is the next big crime wave they must stop. Especially during the election season.

[QUOTE=ILikeHotWomen;1574813]The 43 yr old profile is especially funny, and I doubt she will get much response to such an ad. I don't know what she is thinking and maybe she could have gotten away with a profile like that 20 yrs ago, but I really doubt it now.[/QUOTE]I was around 20 yrs ago. That ad won't work now, wouldn't have work then and would never work! Jesus would have thought she was a total cvnt!

Stay Safe.

Strict

'you're talking about borderline, if not outright, illegal stuff. you just don't talk except face to face, and often, after both are already naked. (:'

zomby brought up a good point that frequently is the elephant in the room. those of us have enjoyed the escort side have overtly flirted with danger risking fame, fortune, and reputation in the event of a sting. one of the many things i like about sd life is the relative safety from le attention. many of our membership have suggested ways to couch the need we have for sex in return for sugar."intimate time together " tops the list, so something needs to be said ahead of time to serve notice to the interviewee that we mean business so that we don't waste time and energy. le would have to be motivated to set up a sting to catch sugar daddies in action and i don't see this being on the radar. they seem to sting high volume pros like sws or escorts in a hotel room where multiple johns can be netted at one time. we do need to be aware of the **** sting which le will pursue one john. i'm sure none of us would knowingly pursue an admitted **** girl but i think many of the 18 to 21 yr olds could be lying about their age to get in the game. so we should check ids in any iffy situation.

sa i browsed sa in dc and there are boat loads of gps girls. does anyone know of guys who pay $5000 plus? i'm working a 19 yr old now who wants $600 / visit and i had to give her a lecture. she is just an escort unfortunately because she is really cute. i told her to be an escort, get a website and charge $250 a pop and she could probably make 2000 / day. but don't pretend to be a sb.

I have been reading this forum, joined the site and already had 2 back at my apartment. Both 25 years and model quality. Damage was $$ and $$$ for each. Vey hot women, both gave bbbjcimws and spent 4-5 hrs. I'm really happy with the progress so far. Have two dates lined up today.