General Reports

[QUOTE=CuriousVaMan;7051891]Any prognostications on how the new law will impact the SB hobby?

Will a disgruntled SB now become a "SW victim" if the date goes bad, or the compensation too low?[/QUOTE]I'm worried about that one too. Specifically I had one that became a real GF. She got used to living the high life, traveling around the world etc. Everything was great, until it wasn't. When I eventually broke up with her she threatened to blow up my life by contacting my work to tell them where we met etc. That caused me to delete my profile, before she even left my driveway and take some other precautions. When she got home she texted me that she was pissed I had deleted my profile before she copied everything. Theoretically if it was after 12/1 she could claim that I trafficked her. I'm sure LEO could have easily subpoenaed my original messages to her even if I deleted everything. She would have loved the opportunity to send me away for 4 months-1 year with no possibility of probation. In my career that's a death sentence.

[QUOTE=MmceStep;7053099]I'm worried about that one too. Specifically I had one that became a real GF. She got used to living the high life, traveling around the world etc. Everything was great, until it wasn't. When I eventually broke up with her she threatened to blow up my life by contacting my work to tell them where we met etc. That caused me to delete my profile, before she even left my driveway and take some other precautions. When she got home she texted me that she was pissed I had deleted my profile before she copied everything. Theoretically if it was after 12/1 she could claim that I trafficked her. I'm sure LEO could have easily subpoenaed my original messages to her even if I deleted everything. She would have loved the opportunity to send me away for 4 months-1 year with no possibility of probation. In my career that's a death sentence.[/QUOTE]You guys are totally overthinking and dramatizing this. The penalty for getting caught may change but that doesn't mean the level of policing does. New law is intended as a deterrent. The courts and jails are already overloaded, you think they can afford to add a bunch of dumb ass Johns into the system.

It will be the same way it is now. Just don't be stupid and don't get caught.

[QUOTE=Banger12;7053324]You guys are totally overthinking and dramatizing this. The penalty for getting caught may change but that doesn't mean the level of policing does. New law is intended as a deterrent. The courts and jails are already overloaded, you think they can afford to add a bunch of dumb ass Johns into the system.

It will be the same way it is now. Just don't be stupid and don't get caught.[/QUOTE]That's not correct. I have a close friend who's a detective (not vice). His department is quadrupling the size of the vice unit, developing new tactics for after Dec. 1. and this, is the big one. Two FBI task forces are moving into NC to conduct operations for an extended period after 12/1. They will do the busts and will hand the perps over to the locals for felony charges. Take it lightly if you want. I won't be doing that.

[QUOTE=MmceStep;7053079]I've been giving this lots of thought JR, and you're right we should start a whole new list of no-go situations. I'll start with some of the ones I've been thinking of, and I'd appreciate it if some smarter guys can add theirs.

1. No verification step which I'd's you personally. Look, all they need for solicitation is to know who you are, get your communication where you're agreeing to an exchange and showing that you showed up, intending to go through with it. Up to now, they needed to really get you in the moment, at the incall because while they might have raided these agencies to get their records, they can't prove you actually ever showed up if you paid cash, mainly because the girls wouldn't testify. So, today if they catch you showing up there with the cash- that's all they need, but it's just a misdemeanor. You're safe from the 'after the fact' stuff if they don't get you in the moment, with the exception that they could try to embarrass you by sending a letter to your home etc if you're on a customer list. (which they've done). After 12/1, with this being a felony and the providers having immunity, they can raid an agency, charge the owner with HT, and get him / her to testify against three years worth of listed clients for a reduced sentence. So, if you've snitched on yourself by sending a copy of your DL or the like. You don't know when they're coming for you. Knowing that you will have to serve a minimum of 4 months in jail and up to a year, this is not something I want to worry about. They will have enough evidence to charge you with the provider and / or agency owner saying you were there at x date and x time. The key is to not make it easy to identify you so they can just come pick you up at your house. I'm betting they won't want to do more investigative work than that, but who knows. Busting the 'verified list guys' with copies of I'd's sitting in a filing cabinet is a layup for LEO.

2. Never pay by electronic payment services. Cash only. They can just get a remote warrant for venmo, cashapp etc to get your identifying info, then see above.

3. No discussion of an exchange via text or phone. If it's a sting, they'll need this. Use this forum to understand the rates being charged and services offered for a provider. Show up and get the provider to touch you inappropriately and initiate the offer. While a cop could do this and still bust you, it's unlikely they will. Then you're a little more comfortable discussing details.

4. The TOFTT days are over. There will be many, many more stings. New ads for new providers not reviewed here will be where most of these can occur.

5. Old ads with new phone #'s could be a sting as well. I've already heard a detective tell me they plan to do this. You respond to an ad you think is Demi, but the text phone # belongs to LEO. You're going to have to do some additional homework to stay safe.

6. Maintain anonymity with the provider as much as possible. Don't follow her instructions ("Go in this door to the hotel", "bring me this kind of soda" "Tell me what car you're driving" etc (this is used to link the person who shows up to the text conversation). Also, If things go bad with the provider (she tries to scam you, gets irate at you for something bc she's a crackhead) you want to be able to walk out that door, take a different exit out of the hotel than the one she sent you to knowing that she can see your car and read your lic. Plate. Remember that she can now call the cops and turn you in. You want to be able to disappear unexpectedly.

7. This is a major shift in the risk factor for each of the participants. Legal risk used to be 50/50. Now it is virtually 100/0, with you taking all the risk. I suppose there's collateral risk to her if she has drugs, warrants etc, but you don't KNOW that's the case at first contact. You have to assume it's 100/0, so in my mind that means I'm not jumping through any hoops to make sure the provider is comfortable. In fact, going forward I really want her to offer all the exchange details up. She can't be charged for doing that any longer. If she says "I'll give you a BBBJ for $", she's safe from LEO and it would be entrapment for them to charge you if you just say "OKAY'..[/QUOTE]This is a lot to unpack. First of all, I do agree, I think mongers need to be smart and not brush this off. At least for the first little bit. Here are my brief thoughts:

- Expect there to be more fake profiles and ads on these escort sites. If you communicate with the individual you assume to be in the ad you need to remember **You are paying her for her TIME** which is not illegal.

- UTR is the better way to go, especially if the girls are low volume. If this is just a part time thing and they have a real full time job. Even better! Chances are, they are going to be candy free and more down to earth.

- TOFTT is going to be a lot more risky, which is why you need to be very cautious when you communicate with these providers.

- I don't mind payment apps as long as she is not expecting payment up front before I see her. Here's the thing, just because you pay someone with Venmo or CashApp doesn't mean there's a record of you paying for sex. You can even give a reason of "School fundraiser" or "Gave money for food". Now, if you're stupid and you say, "This is for me fucking this hot provider I found on STG". Well. I digress. I am not convinced that any type of warrant looking at someone's cashapp is really going to be any damning evidence of solicitation. What if the girl stopped you as you were walking into Walmart and was begging for money for food and you cashapp'd her for that not knowing she is a provider? Do you get in trouble for giving her money for food when you had no other intentions other than to give her money for food?

- Yeah, cash is always king and it really does protect the client and provider. But honestly the worst about using the apps is that if your spouse happens to grab your phone and pull up your cash app and sees that you paid "Sexy Big Titty Sarah" $150, she's obviously going to know what you're using it for.

- There's going to be LEOs here on this site. Just expect it. Don't say anything that will incriminate yourself. Take it to DM if you have to.

- I don't have any other points right now. If you're too horny and start thinking with the little had, just give him a good wack and you're be OK LOL!

[QUOTE=MmceStep;7053833]That's not correct. I have a close friend who's a detective (not vice). His department is quadrupling the size of the vice unit, developing new tactics for after Dec. 1. and this, is the big one. Two FBI task forces are moving into NC to conduct operations for an extended period after 12/1. They will do the busts and will hand the perps over to the locals for felony charges. Take it lightly if you want. I won't be doing that.[/QUOTE]I can appreciate the anti trafficking stance that they are taking. I'm all for it. But I don't do STG or any escort sites, AMPs or SW. The connections I make through SA or SB, I go slow and vet through coms and M&G with the goal of long term. If some task force wants to spend resources setting me up for a mug shot and some community service. Well have at it.

My gut tells me they are going after large pimp rings and Asian and Hispanic trafficking. This net will catch the low hanging rotten fruit and the stupid. I think meeting a chick at the local sports bar for light talk about allowance for f'ing her brains out back at my place will still be okay.

[QUOTE=GMan7547;7054129]This is a lot to unpack. First of all, I do agree, I think mongers need to be smart and not brush this off. At least for the first little bit. Here are my brief thoughts:

- Expect there to be more fake profiles and ads on these escort sites. If you communicate with the individual you assume to be in the ad you need to remember **You are paying her for her TIME** which is not illegal.

- UTR is the better way to go, especially if the girls are low volume. If this is just a part time thing and they have a real full time job. Even better! Chances are, they are going to be candy free and more down to earth.

- TOFTT is going to be a lot more risky, which is why you need to be very cautious when you communicate with these providers.

- I don't mind payment apps as long as she is not expecting payment up front before I see her. Here's the thing, just because you pay someone with Venmo or CashApp doesn't mean there's a record of you paying for sex. You can even give a reason of "School fundraiser" or "Gave money for food". Now, if you're stupid and you say, "This is for me fucking this hot provider I found on STG". Well. I digress. I am not convinced that any type of warrant looking at someone's cashapp is really going to be any damning evidence of solicitation. What if the girl stopped you as you were walking into Walmart and was begging for money for food and you cashapp'd her for that not knowing she is a provider? Do you get in trouble for giving her money for food when you had no other intentions other than to give her money for food?

- Yeah, cash is always king and it really does protect the client and provider. But honestly the worst about using the apps is that if your spouse happens to grab your phone and pull up your cash app and sees that you paid "Sexy Big Titty Sarah" $150, she's obviously going to know what you're using it for.

- There's going to be LEOs here on this site. Just expect it. Don't say anything that will incriminate yourself. Take it to DM if you have to.

- I don't have any other points right now. If you're too horny and start thinking with the little had, just give him a good wack and you're be OK LOL![/QUOTE]Really good points Gman. Thanks.

[QUOTE=Banger12;7054539]I can appreciate the anti trafficking stance that they are taking. I'm all for it. But I don't do STG or any escort sites, AMPs or SW. The connections I make through SA or SB, I go slow and vet through coms and M&G with the goal of long term. If some task force wants to spend resources setting me up for a mug shot and some community service. Well have at it.

My gut tells me they are going after large pimp rings and Asian and Hispanic trafficking. This net will catch the low hanging rotten fruit and the stupid. I think meeting a chick at the local sports bar for light talk about allowance for f'ing her brains out back at my place will still be okay.[/QUOTE]You should read the law. They'll certainly pursue anyone that a woman (now victim) turns in and wants to testify against. That's how it's angled. I'm really only replying to this one point, so that others understand the penalty. Understanding the penalty is key here, because the detectives will always say something like "hey just admit it and take your slap on the hand" to get you to make their job easier. There is no more slap on the hand, so admission gets you f*cked. They've specifically excluded Prayer For Judgment for Solicitation in this law, for JOHNS. What this means is that you serve a 4 month minimum in jail, and up to one year. Sure, with a soft judge and no previous offense that means you'll get the minimum 4 months and a felony conviction. I bet this would really, really screw up 95% of the guys on this board. This new law is about JOHNS, not 'large pimp rings'. It's called a 'Human Trafficking Law', which is a bit deceptive, imo. But very informative. They are shifting the thinking in this state about what Human Trafficking is, and if you read the transcript from the state legislature discussion of the bill, you'd realize this is a John Law. They're now blaming the consumers and the people making money off the lodging. FOR THE WHOLE PLIGHT OF THESE WOMEN. That's the really, really important message that we're trying to convey here. There's no 'Community Service' that's going to be offered to you. You will be considered a Human Trafficker.

Take appropriate caution, or don't. All I ask is that if you get busted, you immediately post on here after release to let us know which ad got you and describe the tactics that were used. So we can all be aware and avoid that path.

[QUOTE=MmceStep;7055410]You should read the law. They'll certainly pursue anyone that a woman (now victim) turns in and wants to testify against. That's how it's angled. I'm really only replying to this one point, so that others understand the penalty. Understanding the penalty is key here, because the detectives will always say something like "hey just admit it and take your slap on the hand" to get you to make their job easier. There is no more slap on the hand, so admission gets you f*cked. They've specifically excluded Prayer For Judgment for Solicitation in this law, for JOHNS. What this means is that you serve a 4 month minimum in jail, and up to one year. Sure, with a soft judge and no previous offense that means you'll get the minimum 4 months and a felony conviction. I bet this would really, really screw up 95% of the guys on this board. This new law is about JOHNS, not 'large pimp rings'. It's called a 'Human Trafficking Law', which is a bit deceptive, imo. But very informative. They are shifting the thinking in this state about what Human Trafficking is, and if you read the transcript from the state legislature discussion of the bill, you'd realize this is a John Law. They're now blaming the consumers and the people making money off the lodging. FOR THE WHOLE PLIGHT OF THESE WOMEN. That's the really, really important message that we're trying to convey here. There's no 'Community Service' that's going to be offered to you. You will be considered a Human Trafficker..[/QUOTE]Exactly! They are going to angle it as the client is purchasing the woman's body, thus, being broadly under the definition of human trafficking.

[QUOTE=Banger12;7054539]I can appreciate the anti trafficking stance that they are taking. I'm all for it. But I don't do STG or any escort sites, AMPs or SW. Thei connections I make through SA or SB, I go slow and vet through coms and M&G with the goal of long term. If some task force wants to spend resources setting me up for a mug shot and some community service. Well have at it.

My gut tells me they are going after large pimp rings and Asian and Hispanic trafficking. This net will catch the low hanging rotten fruit and the stupid. I think meeting a chick at the local sports bar for light talk about allowance for f'ing her brains out back at my place will still be okay.[/QUOTE]Do you know the name of any sports bars in the area to meet women?

There's a Hooters on Gate City at I40 and in Burlington, and a Twin Peaks in W-S.

It's a long game, but some waitresses are game.

[QUOTE=GMan7547;7055516]Exactly! They are going to angle it as the client is purchasing the woman's body, thus, being broadly under the definition of human trafficking.[/QUOTE]I'm not purchasing, who wants to own it? I just want to use it for a few minutes.

[QUOTE=RICheeseHead;7065885]There's a Hooters on Gate City at I40 and in Burlington, and a Twin Peaks in W-S.

It's a long game, but some waitresses are game.[/QUOTE]I haven't been to Twin Peaks but I've been to the Hooters in Burlington and the girls there are much hotter than the ones in Greensboro. However, they look pretty young. I don't know how you'd even broach the topic with them.

[QUOTE=GMan7547;7075135]I haven't been to Twin Peaks but I've been to the Hooters in Burlington and the girls there are much hotter than the ones in Greensboro. However, they look pretty young. I don't know how you'd even broach the topic with them.[/QUOTE]I took my adult daughter to Twin Peaks for lunch in the middle of the day (because she had heard that a particular menu item was good). I figured middle of the day on a weekday was going to be pretty sterile. And our server was wearing straight up see through lingerie. She was gorgeous, and probably 22 ish. I'm talking like full on strip club vibes, but in completely bright, middle-of-the-day lighting. I had to not look at her because I didn't want my daughter to see me being a perv, LOL. My daughter asked her like 100 fashion related questions, and I'm thinking 'someone just kill me right now'.

Invite her to the house so the girls can talk fashion, then when daughter is in bathroom or something, feel the waitress out (verbally, see if she'd be open to something, slowly ask about boyfriend, school loans etc.).

Hey clear some DM space for reply friend.