[QUOTE=Dj Platinum; 1181798]She's been busy out there lately. Always on the go, so hard to catch her.
DJP[/QUOTE]I might have seen her up by that Mary Annas a few weeks ago. I saw another one on West Sahara.
About a month ago that was young and hot.
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[QUOTE=Dj Platinum; 1181798]She's been busy out there lately. Always on the go, so hard to catch her.
DJP[/QUOTE]I might have seen her up by that Mary Annas a few weeks ago. I saw another one on West Sahara.
About a month ago that was young and hot.
[QUOTE=Dj Platinum; 1181798]She's been busy out there lately. Always on the go, so hard to catch her.
DJP[/QUOTE]Do you know who she is? Any info?
[QUOTE=Vegasmatt;1182280]Do you know who she is? Any info?[/QUOTE]Last time I caught her was at AC North parking lot entry.
DJP
[QUOTE=Dj Platinum; 1177931]WW. I hope I'm not the one picking up before you and pissing you off.
<snip
It's challenging isn't it? You need to have an eagle eye and a fast car to snatch them when they come out. Like we say in Vegas, luck does come into play.
[/QUOTE]I wouldn't say pissing me off, but I would appreciate it if you would let me get a better look before hauling them off!
The LSW at the extended stay is kind of a trip. I was trying to pick her up in the residential area behind the 7-11 just off BH during the day a while back, and she was giving me crap like I was LE. The funny part is that she actually stripped off her pants and pulled down her top into mini-skirt mode right there on the street w / o thinking twice about it despite her thinking that I was LE. A bunch of friggin' Einstein SWs we have in LV!
[QUOTE=Wild Wood; 1183619]I wouldn't say pissing me off, but I would appreciate it if you would let me get a better look before hauling them off!
The LSW at the extended stay is kind of a trip. I was trying to pick her up in the residential area behind the 7-11 just off BH during the day a while back, and she was giving me crap like I was LE. The funny part is that she actually stripped off her pants and pulled down her top into mini-skirt mode right there on the street w / o thinking twice about it despite her thinking that I was LE. A bunch of friggin' Einstein SWs we have in LV![/QUOTE]I know what you mean, there are some weird ones out there. IMO SW & AMP are the worse choice for the mongers in Las Vegas.
The thing about SW is you can get cheap BJ and risk sleeping on the concrete floor.
It's a challenge, that's what keeps me driving by at night.
DJP
[QUOTE=Itsacademic; 1179506]In your experience, are any of the girls on west Trop available for longer dreams? Wouldn't mind taking one back to the hotel, giving her a good scrub down in the shower and the dream goes on.
And where do the girls and their minders stay? Perhaps I should stay the same place or close by? Perhaps I'm using the wrong search terms or I've got something set wrongly in my profile as I don't seem to get hits for the info I'm looking for. I'll keep trying.
I'm coming back in May so hope to be better prepared. Thanks to all for your input.[/QUOTE]There's been few girls that does FH for. 8 or $. They don't mind going to your room.
Few times I brought them to the hotel or get a room at nearby motel. There was this young ebony spinner I took to the motel room couple months back. She was about 20, 5'-4, 105 lbs. I pounded her for about hh. Then I rested for a while. She gave me a light back rub, then went for a instant replay, everything on the menu. I had called couple of days later and did the same thing. I couldn't think nothing but her tight puss for dayz.
Oh, I forgot to mention that all I mentioned was in my dream.
You can search for my report on Bentley for more details.
DJP
I was able to get a few pictures of probably the best looking WSW on BH a couple of weeks back. Sadly, I don't have any info about her. And yes, I know the pictures are incredibly small. I'll bring my regular camera next time.
A few pics from Tropicana. One nasty WSW and 3 fugly BSWs at a bus stop.
This BSW is actually kind of cute. IIRC, her name is Erica and she is from Memphis. Based on our conversation, I don't think she'll be staying in town very long.
[QUOTE=Wild Wood;1183651]I was able to get a few pictures of probably the best looking WSW on BH a couple of weeks back. Sadly, I don't have any info about her. And yes, I know the pictures are incredibly small. I'll bring my regular camera next time.[/QUOTE]I had to bring out the magnifying glass for these pics.
Thanks for posting. BH is a disappointment, but there are few fair catch time to time.
Trop is just as bad.
DJP
Have not been down in ages and got some great looks but I was rusty as other mongers swooped in before me. Way South down near whitney ave was a WSW young with blue jean cutoffs and wife beater t shirt and pink bag. I slipped in a block ahead and as I was parking at the apartment another monger just stopped on the side of the road and she jumped in.
Further back up near Sams was a carmel BSW with a pink shirt, short shorts and blonde hair or a colored weave. She was walking South on the North bound side so I tried a could of flips but could not catch it right. She crossed over at twain and went west but when I turned in she turned around and went back North on the South side. She had a huge rack and a lot of junk in the trunk.
Near dottys another caramel BSW going North on the North side got swept up by the monger in front me. She had on a matching green outfit with really short hair. I got to get back over and work on my timing as you all are too quick now days.
I seen a BSW on corner of Indios & BH Friday afternoon, decent body, but when I turned to look at her face, I'd rate her at 3. Not my cup of tea. Went to find a deal at AFM later at night.
DJP
After seeing but never catching anything on Friday I tried again up and down BH, more or less from Trop to Boulder Station. First pass, nothing.
Second time the BSW I had seen yesterday, in the purple dress, was just appearing from a side street. Drove on and near AC's a tall BSW, in a striped top and matching short skirt was on parade.
Did a U turn and rolled by again. The first BSW wa not making eye contact, but the second girl looked at me and half smiled. I pulled into the RV park entrance about 20 yards ahead and waited, only to see her walk right by! She did look at me as she passed, so I waited in case she turned round and hopped in, but after a few minutes she hadn't appeared so I moved out, and there she was, still walking away.
As I drove up, the traffic was backing up so I was stationary alongside her. She looked right at me, smiled and gave the little wave. As the traffic moved off I turned into the next turn, and stopped and this time she came right on in.
Close to she was pretty, younger close up than she seemed on a pass, good smile clean white teeth and she smelt good, I was pretty pleased to have grabbed the chance. I didn't get her name, said she was from New York and was working to save up the money to return to NYC.
Into the parking lot behind some of the industrial units on the southbound side. Had me an excellent BBBJTCIM. Unfortunately for her she took her mouth off after the first spurt and the second went right up the side of her face from mouth to ear. Sh opened the car door to spit and wiped some of it off her cheek. I din't have any tissues with me, and she didn't either, so she asked to be dropped at McDonalds to grab some napkins. I dropped her at McD's at Nellis and in she went still with cum on he face and her hand.
Looks 7, attitude 8, service 7, total damage. 40
[QUOTE=Elrond; 1185568]After seeing but never catching anything on Friday I tried again up and down BH, more or less from Trop to Boulder Station. First pass, nothing.
Second time the BSW I had seen yesterday, in the purple dress, was just appearing from a side street. Drove on and near AC's a tall BSW, in a striped top and matching short skirt was on parade.
Did a U turn and rolled by again. The first BSW wa not making eye contact, but the second girl looked at me and half smiled. I pulled into the RV park entrance about 20 yards ahead and waited, only to see her walk right by! She did look at me as she passed, so I waited in case she turned round and hopped in, but after a few minutes she hadn't appeared so I moved out, and there she was, still walking away.
As I drove up, the traffic was backing up so I was stationary alongside her. She looked right at me, smiled and gave the little wave. As the traffic moved off I turned into the next turn, and stopped and this time she came right on in.
Close to she was pretty, younger close up than she seemed on a pass, good smile clean white teeth and she smelt good, I was pretty pleased to have grabbed the chance. I didn't get her name, said she was from New York and was working to save up the money to return to NYC.
Into the parking lot behind some of the industrial units on the southbound side. Had me an excellent BBBJTCIM. Unfortunately for her she took her mouth off after the first spurt and the second went right up the side of her face from mouth to ear. Sh opened the car door to spit and wiped some of it off her cheek. I din't have any tissues with me, and she didn't either, so she asked to be dropped at McDonalds to grab some napkins. I dropped her at McD's at Nellis and in she went still with cum on he face and her hand.
Looks 7, attitude 8, service 7, total damage. 40[/QUOTE]At least you didn't force the whole load and she choked on it.
I had a girl that actually gagged and some of the cum came out through her nose.
That's a BBBJCIMOTN (out the nose).
DJP
[QUOTE=Wild Wood;1183651]I was able to get a few pictures of probably the best looking WSW on BH a couple of weeks back. Sadly, I don't have any info about her. And yes, I know the pictures are incredibly small. I'll bring my regular camera next time.[/QUOTE]Looks like Amber. A bit overpriced.
[QUOTE=J Rotten;1186121]Looks like Amber. A bit overpriced.[/QUOTE]The pics are so small that it could be anybody.
DJP
Took a stroll up BH, Trop to Boulder Station, late morning Monday. One or two providers out and about, including one larger WSW black hair, big rack, who gave me a nice smile and the wave as I passed. Decided to go for her, but as I got towards the next available U turn I saw the flashing reds and blues. Uncle LEO was at the side of the road by the RV parks before Boulder Station and the two cops were out of the car talking to not one, not two but THREE BSWs. (All quite do-able IMHO)
Decided to wait awhiles so pulled into Boulder Station and had lunch and played a little Blackjack. Came out a good 90 minutes later, and not only was the black and white still there but two of the ladies were sat on the sidewalk cuffed up!
Bet to give BH a miss at the moment, so drove home.
[QUOTE=Elrond; 1186407]Took a stroll up BH, Trop to Boulder Station, late morning Monday. One or two providers out and about, including one larger WSW black hair, big rack, who gave me a nice smile and the wave as I passed. Decided to go for her, but as I got towards the next available U turn I saw the flashing reds and blues. Uncle LEO was at the side of the road by the RV parks before Boulder Station and the two cops were out of the car talking to not one, not two but THREE BSWs. (All quite do-able IMHO)
Decided to wait awhiles so pulled into Boulder Station and had lunch and played a little Blackjack. Came out a good 90 minutes later, and not only was the black and white still there but two of the ladies were sat on the sidewalk cuffed up!
Bet to give BH a miss at the moment, so drove home.[/QUOTE]You got lucky that LE didn't see the SW getting in your car. It's good to be slow sometimes.
Be Safe.
DJP
[QUOTE=Elrond; 1186407]Took a stroll up BH, Trop to Boulder Station, late morning Monday. One or two providers out and about, including one larger WSW black hair, big rack, who gave me a nice smile and the wave as I passed. Decided to go for her, but as I got towards the next available U turn I saw the flashing reds and blues. Uncle LEO was at the side of the road by the RV parks before Boulder Station and the two cops were out of the car talking to not one, not two but THREE BSWs. (All quite do-able IMHO)
Decided to wait awhiles so pulled into Boulder Station and had lunch and played a little Blackjack. Came out a good 90 minutes later, and not only was the black and white still there but two of the ladies were sat on the sidewalk cuffed up!
Bet to give BH a miss at the moment, so drove home. [/QUOTE]Boulder isn't the best place to monger as 2 friends of mine were stung at Lowes Friday. Spent the day in jail. It has been said here many times don't hook up with a good looking girl in this area. Guess they should read this site. They are worried and need a attorney. Any suggestions? I told them to plead no contest and forget about it.
If LV has a John school program I then I would recommend it for your friends. If not your friends should find a lawyer that specializes in sex related cases. They might consider asking for a trial and see if the the drops the case. If not accept a plea bargain if he wants to follow through with a trial.
[QUOTE=Gnome;1187058]Boulder isn't the best place to monger as 2 friends of mine were stung at Lowes Friday. Spent the day in jail. It has been said here many times don't hook up with a good looking girl in this area. Guess they should read this site. They are worried and need a attorney. Any suggestions? I told them to plead no contest and forget about it.[/QUOTE]Monger who gets caught with prostitution in Nevada is faced with a misdemeanor charge.
It carries a maximum sentence up to 6 months and / or $1, 000 fine.
If you plea no contest, you'll probably get off with probation only, provided you have no previous record. You are eligible to expunge you record after three years provided you have no prior arrest and you stay out of trouble for the three year duration.
Don't take my word for it, tell your friend to seek legal advice, but I thought I share what I know.
DJP
[QUOTE=Gnome;1187058]Boulder isn't the best place to monger as 2 friends of mine were stung at Lowes Friday. Spent the day in jail. It has been said here many times don't hook up with a good looking girl in this area. Guess they should read this site. They are worried and need a attorney. Any suggestions? I told them to plead no contest and forget about it.[/QUOTE]I always want to make sure girls are at least on the move, walking a couple of blocks. Seems it would be harder to set up a sting that way. Any thoughts?
[QUOTE=J Rotten;1188150]I always want to make sure girls are at least on the move, walking a couple of blocks. Seems it would be harder to set up a sting that way. Any thoughts?[/QUOTE]You probably lessen the chance that way. Sting usually is stationary, so LEO can watch monger in action nearby.
DJP
[QUOTE=J Rotten;1188150]I always want to make sure girls are at least on the move, walking a couple of blocks. Seems it would be harder to set up a sting that way. Any thoughts?[/QUOTE]I have lost many a prospect by driving around the block once too often and waiting too long, but that is a much better option for me than getting bit. I read and reread the monger rules often to keep them fresh in my mind.
I think the most important thing is not to talk about money or specific acts until you drive at least a few blocks and make a few turns. LE is probably not going to let their decoy get into your car let alone go for a ride. If you do pick up one who is standing just ask if she wants a ride. If she wants to talk business before she gets in she's either LE, stupid, or too new to know any better. I would never take that chance.
Maybe things are different in Vegas, especially as the weather heats up SW's may want to sit and wait for a pick up, but in my hometown I won't take a chance on one who is standing in one spot. I"ve seen one intriguing looking BSW standing in front of a liquor store on the Milwaukee stroll. I've made eye contact and it's obvious she's working, but I'm not going to stop at a busy corner to pick her up. I don't think it's a sting, but if LE is sitting around they could not help but see the pick up and I don't want to take a chance on being hassled.
Monger Rules:
One good way to detect a sting is to park and observer from a safe distance.
[QUOTE=Lonelyguy128; 1188290]I have lost many a prospect by driving around the block once too often and waiting too long, but that is a much better option for me than getting bit. I read and reread the monger rules often to keep them fresh in my mind.
I think the most important thing is not to talk about money or specific acts until you drive at least a few blocks and make a few turns. LE is probably not going to let their decoy get into your car let alone go for a ride. If you do pick up one who is standing just ask if she wants a ride. If she wants to talk business before she gets in she's either LE, stupid, or too new to know any better. I would never take that chance.
Maybe things are different in Vegas, especially as the weather heats up SW's may want to sit and wait for a pick up, but in my hometown I won't take a chance on one who is standing in one spot. I"ve seen one intriguing looking BSW standing in front of a liquor store on the Milwaukee stroll. I've made eye contact and it's obvious she's working, but I'm not going to stop at a busy corner to pick her up. I don't think it's a sting, but if LE is sitting around they could not help but see the pick up and I don't want to take a chance on being hassled.[/QUOTE]You are absolutely right. You have done nothing wrong even if you have a hooker in your car, if you didn't mention anything about service and price.
I would also never pick up in a busy intersection, but sometimes you got to do what you got to do.
DJP
You should avoid in the morning, there will be women walking it heavily, they may give you the look, but not the look you are looking for. Married men your wife may be among them, Just a heads up."race for the cure". Susan G. Komen. We're starting at Freemont street at 8:00 am DJP go check them out, I know you will have something to say.
[QUOTE=Wyghost;1188994]You should avoid in the morning, there will be women walking it heavily, they may give you the look, but not the look you are looking for. Married men your wife may be among them, Just a heads up."race for the cure". Susan G. Komen. We're starting at Freemont street at 8:00 am DJP go check them out, I know you will have something to say.[/QUOTE]Thanks, but I'll pass.
Don't tell me check them out or do this or that, before I tell you where to go.
For sake of others I don't want to have a pissing match in here with you. PM me if you have something to say to me.
DJP
[QUOTE=Dj Platinum; 1188193]You probably lessen the chance that way. Sting usually is stationary, so LEO can watch monger in action nearby.
DJP[/QUOTE]A tactic LEO seems to be using lately is they locate a SW and set up / hide a distance forward of the direction the SW is walking. On BH, I saw a monger pull in to talk to her and then LEO swooped in and lit him up after she got in the car. I was going to an Appointment so I couldn't stay around to see the result so I'm not sure if there were arrests, tickets or just LEO attempting to scare the crap out of people.
[QUOTE=Rocky702;1189057]A tactic LEO seems to be using lately is they locate a SW and set up / hide a distance forward of the direction the SW is walking. On BH, I saw a monger pull in to talk to her and then LEO swooped in and lit him up after she got in the car. I was going to an Appointment so I couldn't stay around to see the result so I'm not sure if there were arrests, tickets or just LEO attempting to scare the crap out of people.[/QUOTE]It's surprising that leo would let a decoy even get into a car, but I bet it was a well lit and open area, probably the kind of area I would be very, very reluctant to stop to make a pick up. And again, never talk until she gets into the car. If she is a SW a little nod is all you need and she will jump into your car without you or her saying a word. If she is working for leo she will probably try to get you to talk before she gets in.
I am getting confused about what I am going to find cruising in Vegas. It seems BH and Trop may be wider and more open streets than I am used to cruising at home. Do you guys find it difficult to find a quieter more secluded spot to make a pick up or do you pull into parking lots or how to you do it with a little discretion?
I have never seen or heard of a instance where a decoy gets in and drives off. Now the cops will let a decoy get in the car and arrest the john before he can drive off. I have seen on TV where the cops did this in LV years ago.
[QUOTE=SoCalMonger;1189237]I have never seen or heard of a instance where a decoy gets in and drives off. Now the cops will let a decoy get in the car and arrest the john before he can drive off. I have seen on TV where the cops did this in LV years ago.[/QUOTE]I have had problems with girls in the car. If she jumps in the car real sudden-like, and you just notice she has 4 teeth and huge wrinkles and meth sores, it is hard to get them to just leave. One such granny demanded 20 to get out of the car or she was going to tell the cops I tried to rape her. I tried pushing her out, and nearly had a fight to get her to leave. I usually get out of the car, let the girl approach me, and then I say,"Are you a, show me something." and usually they will show me a boob or put my hand on their butt. An le would never do that. Then I know I can talk turkey to the girl. What about that approach? Any suggestions for improvement
[QUOTE=Rocky702;1189057]A tactic LEO seems to be using lately is they locate a SW and set up / hide a distance forward of the direction the SW is walking. On BH, I saw a monger pull in to talk to her and then LEO swooped in and lit him up after she got in the car. I was going to an Appointment so I couldn't stay around to see the result so I'm not sure if there were arrests, tickets or just LEO attempting to scare the crap out of people.[/QUOTE]LE is always on the move on BH. Lot of times there's LE is behind me or I'm behind them, otherwise they are parked on the side watching the cars pass by. There are lots of crime other than SW, so they need to keep it under control.
DJP
I've been seeing a couple of LSW and WSW on DI, between Sandhill and Pecos-McLeod in the last few days. The heat on Boulder Highway might be pushing girls onto other major streets in the area.
[QUOTE=Vegas Partier;1189914]I've been seeing a couple of LSW and WSW on DI, between Sandhill and Pecos-McLeod in the last few days. The heat on Boulder Highway might be pushing girls onto other major streets in the area.[/QUOTE]If you go back there today, You won't find them.
DJP
[QUOTE=Vegas Partier;1189914]I've been seeing a couple of LSW and WSW on DI, between Sandhill and Pecos-McLeod in the last few days. The heat on Boulder Highway might be pushing girls onto other major streets in the area.[/QUOTE]I'm back in Vegas, noticed little on BH the last couple of days, though that may be more to do with the rain. Around 3pm Monday saw 2 WSH on Tropicana at Nellis, the Ciircle K area. They both looked fit, one a dirty blond with middle of the back hair, the other a red brunette with shoulder length hair. Didn't look as though they'd been around the block too many times, but not my type. The curse of having gone black and never going back. Today, up on W Trop in the [url]WWW[/url] Area there are plenty out, boith WSH and BSH. Some of the BSHs are real lazy though. I've been giving the looks and getting them back, but they won't approach. Maybe they're LE, although they don't look that good, so maybe not.
Stay safe
Been driving around BH & W Trop for the last couple of days. After 2 days finally decided to take the plunge. Britney is a BSW so not the girl elsewhere in this thread. Good body, not a spinner, but acceptable. IMO L / A/S 7/9/8. She says she's a local, but she rents a room at a close by hotel sometimes for guys with nowhere local to go. Went to my hotel close by. I didn't want FS, but FIV, GSM, any other foreplay that came to mind and finish with CBJ. She didn't rush me. She started at. 8 I settled at. 5. I was well satisfied. After offered to drop her close to her sista, so took her down to the Orleans and dropped her by the big sign. Orleans is the top of her stroll, In N Out the bottom. Sr Members may PM me for digits if interested. She says she advertises on Backpage & Craigslist, but couldn't find her.
BH seems to be dead. Britney says LEO is trying to clean it up big time.
[QUOTE=Itsacademic;1191394]BH seems to be dead. Britney says LEO is trying to clean it up big time.[/QUOTE]It looks that way. It also depends on when your drive by was. BH is a long stretch and it also may have been other mongers picked them up just before your stroll. I've seen few hanging out one day and none the next.
Another reason is political season. They always beef up the LE activity during election year, so blame Dean Heller for the dry season.
Your worst choice for mongering is SW, AMP, CG in that order IMO. Good thing we have other choices, a back up plan is in order.
DJP
[QUOTE=Dj Platinum; 1191866]It looks that way. It also depends on when your drive by was. BH is a long stretch and it also may have been other mongers picked them up just before your stroll. I've seen few hanging out one day and none the next.
Another reason is political season. They always beef up the LE activity during election year, so blame Dean Heller for the dry season.
Your worst choice for mongering is SW, AMP, CG in that order IMO. Good thing we have other choices, a back up plan is in order.
DJP[/QUOTE]I agree with you DJ. I will cruise for kicks while I am in town next week, but I won't waste a lot of time at it. AMPs always seem to be hit or miss and I don't get the interest in casino girls. Of course if I am gambling late at night and a beautiful CG makes me an offer I can't refuse, who knows? But, it seems much easier to connect with a reviewed escort to have a better idea what you are buying and decrease the chances of upsell or worse problems. I will arrive with an appointment made and about six back up numbers just in case.
And, for what it's worth I will provide a full report of my Vegas monger activities as thanks for the info I have gotten from this forum.
Well I am back from my trip to Vegas and as I anticipated I did not spend a lot of time cruising, but I could not help taking a little time. So, I thought I would report on my little adventures, for what it's worth.
I did not make a pick up, but I certainly saw lots of SWs out on BH in the afternoon on Wednesday and Thursday. I paid a visit to Kelli Luv on Tuesday and submitted a report about her on the Escort Report forum. I was still reeling from my visit with Kelli when I went cruising on Wednesay from Fremont ST downtown out to BH, so I was not feeling at all desperate to make a pick up.
I saw the first WSW near Lowe's a, little after noon. She was pretty overweight, but I made eye contact and am sure she gave me the look. I saw two young white girls walking as I drove further south. I can't be sure they were working. I tried to turn around to get another look, but I had to go thru some business parking lots and by the time I got to a place where I thought they might be approaching, I saw that they had turned around and were headed back north.
Well, by the time the light changed and I was able to get an arrow to make a U turn they were gone. This is exactly what I had anticipated making cruising more difficult than I am used to in a city where I can go around a block in 30 seconds or so.
Wednesday night I was heading back downtown a little after 10. I got twisted around and ended up driving on Main to where it intersects with the Strip near the Strat. I crossed the Strip on to ST Louis Av to turn around and saw an almost TGTBT white girl I thought might be working. I could not get her to make eye contact, but something about her walk gave me the feeling she was working. I turned around and made another pass and still could get no eye contact. I drove a few more blocks and saw another white girl who was working, but looked pretty strung out. Indecision set in and I just kept driving. I had not heard of that part of the Strip between the Strat and Fremont as being a SW area, but it seems possible.
On Thursday I was pretty much recovered from Kelli and would have made a pick up if the situation was right. I spent more time on BH around 1 pm and again a little before 7. I saw a few more overweight WSW in that area north or south of Sahara. I saw a BSW near AC who looked a little rough for me and was being way too obvious standing at a bus stop. I saw her again around 7, this time walking BH.
I saw a hsw south of Sahara and by this time I was really ready to make a pick up. I turned on to Sahara to go around the block, but again found that is easier said then done. The block turned into 3 or 4 before I could turn around and by the time I was approaching BH a car turned off BH, made a U turn and I saw her get in.
I was on Trop a few times during the day too, but never saw anything and traffic is so heavy I was having a hard time envisioning how I would make a pick up anyway.
I had a good time hunting even though I could not close a deal.