News and Media Reports

Does geofencing see all phones? Or just ones with GPS enabled? Or flip phones etc?

[QUOTE=BlackEscape;7124012]This is the second time I have seen this said, so I feel the need to explain why this won't happen.

Geofencing can only predict within a range. In an area such as 16 and mound in Sterling Heights, it will be incredibly accurate, but not totally. If they were looking for a guy who did a specific thing at a specific place at a specific time, this could probably be enough to compel a subpoena for the owners of devices. But we are talking about devices that were in the area for a half hour to an hour, at most, a handful of times within a date range. There are several other businesses within a single-digit number of feet that operate within the same timeframe that AM did and within the date range that AM was open. These present challenges to the validity and reliability of geofencing.

The prosecutor would likely propose a range of accuracy based on calculations from a "geofencing expert" who will lay out the boundaries, which will probably be based on some sort of formula applied to a sample of like a hundred or so trials of measuring where different devices are in and around that office building. If there were any updates to software, for either satellites or phones pertaining to geolocation, these would also need to be accounted for and could potentially make the results from geofencing unusable because the tests for the range of accuracy could not be recreated. This alone would create such a headache and most likely resolve in a geofence so much larger than the bounds of that building, that conceivably, so many people would be caught within that geofence that they would need to reach out to hundreds-thousands of people who likely had no clue about this stuff, depending on their date range. Those experts would not be cheap. I would expect it to run the court about $50-100 k just for this silly little test, and I don't believe that a local judge would be happy about having to go through all of that, just to find out that most people caught in their net are soccer moms with sore backs, people who got injured at work, or maybe even, depending on the time of day and other factors, people sitting in their car waiting for their pizza at Happy's.

Geofencing worked in the context of the capitol because it was a relatively large area, and they had a very specific period of time. Here, there is a very, very narrow sliver of geography and they are looking for a specific period of time that a case was in the area within a wide range. This won't be used to bust guys who walked into a massage therapy facility where they were met with a woman who may or may not offered them sex for money.

And I know guys are worried about getting busted months later because of the Kraft case, but that is a 100% different case and that was thrown out. However, all mongers should read up on that.[/QUOTE].

[QUOTE=Rgv956;7123075]We have to ask how do these investigators know the FS spots. Where are they getting this information. Seems like they know which one to go after to.[/QUOTE]The news interviewed surrounding business owners. The neighboring business owners reported to the police. The police setup surveillance. Perhaps surveilling includes writing down plate numbers or geofencing or confiscating transaction records to find out who used a CC.

"Yeah, it was pretty clear," said Goss. "I mean, when you know customers would come in park in our parking lot, sneak in late at night, early mornings, to get a 10 minute massage, you knew something was up. ".

[URL]https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2024/12/09/4-metro-detroit-massage-parlors-close-70-year-old-man-charged-in-sex-trafficking-bust/[/URL]

[QUOTE=BrkFrStrumpets;7125389]The news interviewed surrounding business owners. The neighboring business owners reported to the police. The police setup surveillance. Perhaps surveilling includes writing down plate numbers or geofencing or confiscating transaction records to find out who used a CC.

"Yeah, it was pretty clear," said Goss. "I mean, when you know customers would come in park in our parking lot, sneak in late at night, early mornings, to get a 10 minute massage, you knew something was up. ".

[URL]https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2024/12/09/4-metro-detroit-massage-parlors-close-70-year-old-man-charged-in-sex-trafficking-bust/[/URL][/QUOTE]10 minute massage? Not bloody likely.

[QUOTE=BrkFrStrumpets;7125389]The news interviewed surrounding business owners. The neighboring business owners reported to the police. The police setup surveillance. Perhaps surveilling includes writing down plate numbers or geofencing or confiscating transaction records to find out who used a CC.

"Yeah, it was pretty clear," said Goss. "I mean, when you know customers would come in park in our parking lot, sneak in late at night, early mornings, to get a 10 minute massage, you knew something was up. ".

[URL]https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2024/12/09/4-metro-detroit-massage-parlors-close-70-year-old-man-charged-in-sex-trafficking-bust/[/URL][/QUOTE]I know how that guy knew something was up, and it wasn't from timing other guys' sessions. This is a classic "See honey, I'd never do anything like that. I'm so disgusted by it that I'm making sure those places aren't bothering decent folks like us".

Includes 13 and orchard lake and 2 others unnamed.

[QUOTE=HeeJunk;7223853]Includes 13 and orchard lake and 2 others unnamed.[/QUOTE]According to Fox 2, Detroit:

"The backstory:

The investigation began regarding an Illicit massage parlor 13 Mile and Orchard Lake Road. The other two locations were not named in the press conference.

"In interviews with Care House investigators, these women told of appalling living conditions," McDonald said. "They were forced to live inside the massage parlor, working seven days a week from 9 am To 10 pm They did not have access to transportation, friends or family or medical care. They claimed they received no, or minimal payment for their work. ".

Farmington Hills Chief John Piggott said the investigation lasted three months with the Oakland County Sheriff's Office, special investigative unit, the Westland Police Department Special Investigation Unit.

More than $140,000 in currency was recovered from a safety deposit box connected to the suspect.

"Just to show the scope of this investigation, our investigators have identified homes, vehicles and commercial real estate that appear to have been paid for through this ongoing illicit and exploited criminal enterprise," said Piggott.

The police chief asked for the public's help identifying suspicious businesses. And notifying them.

"We would ask is residents or business owners that are operating in these areas is to report unusual business activity," he said. "In most cases, these were businesses that operate with inconsistent business hours. There's no signage on these businesses. They black out their windows, they lock their doors to conceal what is going on inside. ".

Karen said she's going after the patrons, too, using cc receipts and 3 months worth of surveillance.

[QUOTE=Telecaster;7124945]Oh please.

Stop it with the fear mongering.[/QUOTE]Exactly. It's not a crime to pay money to get a massage / body rub / whatever at any of these places. It's a crime to pay money for sex. The money for sex part is damn hard to prove.

Unless the girls can specifically remember you, can say that you asked for it, and then can testify how much you paid for it, you should have nothing to worry about. If LE contacts you, keep your mouth shut. Tell them nothing, even that you were there. It's extremely unlikely that they're coming after small fry like you.

The prosecutor is saying that LE may look into further charges simply as a deterrent for the future. That's fear mongering.

[QUOTE=BlackEscape;7124012]This is the second time I have seen this said, so I feel the need to explain why this won't happen.

Geofencing can only predict within a range. In an area such as 16 and mound in Sterling Heights, it will be incredibly accurate, but not totally. If they were looking for a guy who did a specific thing at a specific place at a specific time, this could probably be enough to compel a subpoena for the owners of devices. But we are talking about devices that were in the area for a half hour to an hour, at most, a handful of times within a date range. There are several other businesses within a single-digit number of feet that operate within the same timeframe that AM did and within the date range that AM was open. These present challenges to the validity and reliability of geofencing.

The prosecutor would likely propose a range of accuracy based on calculations from a "geofencing expert" who will lay out the boundaries, which will probably be based on some sort of formula applied to a sample of like a hundred or so trials of measuring where different devices are in and around that office building. If there were any updates to software, for either satellites or phones pertaining to geolocation, these would also need to be accounted for and could potentially make the results from geofencing unusable because the tests for the range of accuracy could not be recreated. This alone would create such a headache and most likely resolve in a geofence so much larger than the bounds of that building, that conceivably, so many people would be caught within that geofence that they would need to reach out to hundreds-thousands of people who likely had no clue about this stuff, depending on their date range. Those experts would not be cheap. I would expect it to run the court about $50-100 k just for this silly little test, and I don't believe that a local judge would be happy about having to go through all of that, just to find out that most people caught in their net are soccer moms with sore backs, people who got injured at work, or maybe even, depending on the time of day and other factors, people sitting in their car waiting for their pizza at Happy's.

Geofencing worked in the context of the capitol because it was a relatively large area, and they had a very specific period of time. Here, there is a very, very narrow sliver of geography and they are looking for a specific period of time that a case was in the area within a wide range. This won't be used to bust guys who walked into a massage therapy facility where they were met with a woman who may or may not offered them sex for money.

And I know guys are worried about getting busted months later because of the Kraft case, but that is a 100% different case and that was thrown out. However, all mongers should read up on that.[/QUOTE]Absolutely spot on Black Escape:

I've already laid this out in further detail in the massage parlor report a few minutes ago (feel free to read that if you'd like), but I am going to repeat it again for everyone that needs to read it as a TL; DR. If a cop stops you, calls you, talks to you in person or whatever, NEVER VOLUNTEER INFORMATION. NEVER TALK TO COPS, EVER! Cops are not here to help you and NEVER WILL BE. Personally speaking if a cop calls me to ask me about anything relating to a massage or say they need me to come down the station or whatever, I have every right to tell them to fuck the fuck off, hang up on them and block all of their numbers. Hell, tell them that if they have a warrant to send it to your attorney if you want. Cops will try every dirty, nasty trick in the book to try and force a confession from you. The fact of the matter is that if they already had you dead to rights they would have already came by and arrested you by now. All of that shit is nothing more than a fear tactic to convince (pardon me for being a dick) stupid people from going to any business that might hint at extras. No police force, politician, prosecutor, etc will EVER get rid of the world's oldest profession. As long as you can continue to make money selling sex, people will continue to sell sex. It will always be an endless game of whack-a-mole and the cops KNOW IT. Also, they're not coming after you. If anything, they are going after the owners of the shops or their handlers, drivers or traffickers. You are just the convenient scapegoat they can sell to the media like you're some sort of "deranged degenerate who is contributing to the downfall of society" as a fear tactic. Fuck those people and fuck the cops. Well, not literally, unless that's something that gets you off, which no shade if that's you.

Some quick tips to keep yourself safe though (if you want to keep being a part of the hobby):

1) Don't use your personal number EVER for anything relating to the hobby. Pre-paid phones are cheap. Tons of burner number apps exist that don't use your personal number to dial, etc.

2) If you are using your own personal vehicle to drive to a place that you know is an extras joint; reverse park into a spot so your licence isn't easily visible to the road or the parking lot. If a cop is going to take down your plate to try and establush a pattern or motive, don't make their jobs easier for them.

3) If you are going for FS to a place, try and bring your own raincoats. The last thing you want is some cop forensics team getting access to your dirty deeds if they bust up a place. I know that one is a bit on the paranoia side, but it's what I do just as an extra layer of safety.

4) REPEATING AGAIN, but DON'T FUCKING TALK TO COPS. EVER!!

I hope that clears some stuff up. Stay safe out there gents.

[URL]https://www.facebook.com/share/1ASkFXCsBm/[/URL]

Local TV news just reported this place got busted.

[QUOTE=HungaryMan;7253932]Local TV news just reported this place got busted.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2025/04/10/women-arrested-after-eastpointe-police-shut-down-massage-parlor-for-alleged-sex-acts/[/URL]

"Kelly Road near Lister Avenue".

Two women transported to hospital. One person of interest is in custody.

[URL]https://www.cbsnews.com/detroit/news/person-of-interest-2-injured-garden-city-massage-parlor-fire/[/URL]

[URL]https://www.huffpost.com/entry/a-recession-is-coming-sex-workers_l_67eaa67fe4b008c5a2ecc0bc[/URL]

I wonder if the Trump Tariff Recession will also kill off providers with GPS.

[URL]https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/woman-says-detroit-strip-club-the-sting-allowed-underage-teens-inside[/URL]

LOL.

[QUOTE=MageXO;7275870][URL]https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/woman-says-detroit-strip-club-the-sting-allowed-underage-teens-inside[/URL].[/QUOTE]I have a lot to say about this, but not here. What I will say here is this mom attracted attention not only to minors in the club, but how to track your family electronically by using the phone's locator app, so you can discover whether they are someplace you disapprove of. Mongers, beware of your wife or family using the tracker function on your phone to find you in the club.