"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=EvilTmp;5038690]

On a general note, I'm floored by what some of you guys pay for pussy. Either you're desperate AF or something but paying 3-400 for a bland single mommy of 35yo is simply insane. Good god. For that amount she should be nothing less than a 21 yo, 100lbs hottie.[/QUOTE]Plus once you have points of comparison, don't pay a premium just to nail someone new.

I've got two regulars.

One Asian spinner in college.

One beautiful, built hottie in her late 20's.

Both are BBFS, C whereever I want, 3 input, submissive and bi.

Either are $300 per meet, as long as I can last.

Everyone else is compared to that option and few can compete.

[QUOTE=EvilTmp;5038690]Just don't!

If she's GPS don't counter, just thank her for her time and walk away. If it's close, just tell her your number and forget about her if it's not to her liking. There is nothing to be gained from protracted back and forth on numbers. This is those that like the non-pro, college girls. If you're dealing with a hardened pro then go ahead and treat it like you're haggling a piece of meat, in the end it won't matter.

On a general note, I'm floored by what some of you guys pay for pussy. Either you're desperate AF or something but paying 3-400 for a bland single mommy of 35yo is simply insane. Good god. For that amount she should be nothing less than a 21 yo, 100lbs hottie.[/QUOTE]Be sure you are discussing this in person, at the M&G. It's been said that you'll not FC w / a girl if you don't have an agreement at the end of the M&G. Not strictly true, but close. Girls are much more likely to ask for more by text or email. It always is hard to be rejected in person, she will ask less. I also don't like to get into back and forth about $. I try to stick to 300-350, but if she wants 400 and will do me the favor of getting a room, I'll agree. I have a SO, I appreciate their investment in my discretion.

And, I would never see a bland 35 YO again. My whole goal in the bowl is to fuck high quality pussy. The most I have ever done was 600, for someone I had a personal / emotional investment in. The least, a 150 Cinderella makeup kit (LOL! None of them would ever be thought to be fucking an old guy like me, for dough or otherwise, but they knew what they wanted. This is how you get a good price for high quality. You have to be her kink.

I don't even do a M&G unless SB knows that I'm looking for a FC relationship. The M&G is to verify that we get a long. I get along with everyone. Only had 2 M&G that I got rejected, but those M&G only cost me gas and coffee. I also didn't text those girls much before M&G.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;5038736]Be sure you are discussing this in person, at the M&G. It's been said that you'll not FC w / a girl if you don't have an agreement at the end of the M&G. Not strictly true, but close. Girls are much more likely to ask for more by text or email. It always is hard to be rejected in person, she will ask less. I also don't like to get into back and forth about $. I try to stick to 300-350, but if she wants 400 and will do me the favor of getting a room, I'll agree. I have a SO, I appreciate their investment in my discretion.

And, I would never see a bland 35 YO again. My whole goal in the bowl is to fuck high quality pussy. The most I have ever done was 600, for someone I had a personal / emotional investment in. The least, a 150 Cinderella makeup kit (LOL! None of them would ever be thought to be fucking an old guy like me, for dough or otherwise, but they knew what they wanted. This is how you get a good price for high quality. You have to be her kink.[/QUOTE]

Just made an account. Now making $100,000 a year. Wanted to find some hot college babes. Is it possible for cheap? Getting back in the game.

It's like any dating site. Set it up like your looking for a long term SB. A fun and easy going, stress free relationship. It's best to be honest if your married or not. Some girls don't care, but others do. Get a burner phone or app.

The current market value is 300-500. Only problem is your going to have to add hotel plus dinner so that's a extra 150-200. Most girls will be looking to meetup at less 2-4 times a month. You can be spending anywhere form 1,000-3,000 a month on a SB. You can cut some of the cost if you looking for girls willing to host at their homes. Normally girls that host are out of the college age. I spend about 3,500 a week, but I have 4 regular SBs and 3 side SBs. I set my earnings to 150,000. All my SBs except 1 thinks I'm their only SB. I want to girls to know I have money to take care of them, but don't think I am made of money. This month alone I meetup with 6 new SBs only keeping 2. 1 is a maybe. The other 3 I made some BS excuses why it not going to work out. I'm a newbie only became a SD because quarantine boredom, but I pickup things fast by reading a few months of forum posting.

Good luck hunting!

[QUOTE=ThatSexyGuy;5040121]Just made an account. Now making $100,000 a year. Wanted to find some hot college babes. Is it possible for cheap? Getting back in the game.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Lobsid;5040314]It's like any dating site. Set it up like your looking for a long term SB. A fun and easy going, stress free relationship. It's best to be honest if your married or not. Some girls don't care, but others do. Get a burner phone or app.

The current market value is 300-500. Only problem is your going to have to add hotel plus dinner so that's a extra 150-200. Most girls will be looking to meetup at less 2-4 times a month. You can be spending anywhere form 1,000-3,000 a month on a SB. You can cut some of the cost if you looking for girls willing to host at their homes. Normally girls that host are out of the college age. I spend about 3,500 a week, but I have 4 regular SBs and 3 side SBs. I set my earnings to 150,000. All my SBs except 1 thinks I'm their only SB. I want to girls to know I have money to take care of them, but don't think I am made of money. This month alone I meetup with 6 new SBs only keeping 2. 1 is a maybe. The other 3 I made some BS excuses why it not going to work out. I'm a newbie only became a SD because quarantine boredom, but I pickup things fast by reading a few months of forum posting.

Good luck hunting![/QUOTE]300-500 sounds fair to smash hot college babes. But geez $3500 a month you must be making $250,000 a year or more. I'm at $100,000 so I'm not looking to spend more than $1200.

Got this message in my inbox today from "classylad".

Some of your reviews of us ladies from SA and STG are pretty nasty. Why do you think I have refused to even see you in person?

BTW. When was the last time you looked at yourself in the mirror??

Plenty of fish in the sea. Girls come and go. Only the semi-pro SBs would know that we're on the SA as much as them. If they have a problem with it then get out of sex work. It's the oldest profession in the world for a reason. Any ways humans are social animals. It makes sense that we would at least interact with each other in some form or another.

[QUOTE=ErnestLl;5040926]Got this message in my inbox today from "classylad".

Some of your reviews of us ladies from SA and STG are pretty nasty. Why do you think I have refused to even see you in person?

BTW. When was the last time you looked at yourself in the mirror??[/QUOTE]

Talking with now trying to set something up.

You spend 3,500 a week? I need to party with you. DM me and I can be your talent manager.

[QUOTE=Lobsid;5040314]It's like any dating site. Set it up like your looking for a long term SB. A fun and easy going, stress free relationship. It's best to be honest if your married or not. Some girls don't care, but others do. Get a burner phone or app.

The current market value is 300-500. Only problem is your going to have to add hotel plus dinner so that's a extra 150-200. Most girls will be looking to meetup at less 2-4 times a month. You can be spending anywhere form 1,000-3,000 a month on a SB. You can cut some of the cost if you looking for girls willing to host at their homes. Normally girls that host are out of the college age. I spend about 3,500 a week, but I have 4 regular SBs and 3 side SBs. I set my earnings to 150,000. All my SBs except 1 thinks I'm their only SB. I want to girls to know I have money to take care of them, but don't think I am made of money. This month alone I meetup with 6 new SBs only keeping 2. 1 is a maybe. The other 3 I made some BS excuses why it not going to work out. I'm a newbie only became a SD because quarantine boredom, but I pickup things fast by reading a few months of forum posting.

Good luck hunting![/QUOTE]

Should I just skip her. She looks like my type.

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/373ad652-7dce-4064-ab43-d5aea07de48a[/URL]

Lol I must be good looking because so many women have messaged me. Well, my girl tells me that all the time lol

I seeing anywhere from 5-6 SBs a week. I have nothing else to do because of quarantine other then work and meeting SBs. My allowance are 300-600. The 3500 is the total cost of allowance, plus food, and hotels. This week schedule.

Sunday SB 300 plus food and hotel.

Monday SB 600 plus food, and she host.

Tuesday None.

Wednesday new SB 400 plus food and hotel.

Thursday 2 SBs 500+400 plus food and hotels.

Friday SB 400 plus food and hotel.

Saturday None.

[QUOTE=Zerry;5041328]You spend 3,500 a week? I need to party with you. DM me and I can be your talent manager.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Lobsid;5042229]I seeing anywhere from 5-6 SBs a week. I have nothing else to do because of quarantine other then work and meeting SBs. My allowance are 300-600. The 3500 is the total cost of allowance, plus food, and hotels. This week schedule.

Sunday SB 300 plus food and hotel.

Monday SB 600 plus food, and she host.

Tuesday None.

Wednesday new SB 400 plus food and hotel.

Thursday 2 SBs 500+400 plus food and hotels.

Friday SB 400 plus food and hotel.

Saturday None.[/QUOTE]Damn I see maybe 2 sometimes 3 on a good week but not consistently. Can't afford that. I salute you.

Girls say that because they want to make sure that your not a crazy guy that will murder them. Most of the guys on the site are weird. Almost every SB I meet up with say I am one of the most normal person they met on the site. Some girls require M&G date 1st, but most of the time I get FC. Remember the girls that msg you are interested too. Hardest part is weeding out scammers

[QUOTE=ThatSexyGuy;5042162]Should I just skip her. She looks like my type.

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/373ad652-7dce-4064-ab43-d5aea07de48a[/URL]

Lol I must be good looking because so many women have messaged me. Well, my girl tells me that all the time lol[/QUOTE]

Like I said, I need to party with you. I got to say though, if I had $3,500 a week to blow on SA I'd probably raise my standards and lower frequency. You do get some gems at 400 but, not 5 a week. No judgement intended.

Have you gone after some of the high-end girls? There are not a lot of them, but there are a few chicks around here that are truly model caliber. In SoCal there were insanely hot women on SA. Using some of the budget for destination sugaring is something else I'd do.

Search San Diego / LA, you could easily line up a dozen potential girls at the 300-600 price point and see most of them in a week. Man I miss living there. I was having more 3 somes there than one on one dates here and spending the same money. It's been a while, but some of my connections might still be active.

[QUOTE=Lobsid;5042229]I seeing anywhere from 5-6 SBs a week. I have nothing else to do because of quarantine other then work and meeting SBs. My allowance are 300-600. The 3500 is the total cost of allowance, plus food, and hotels. This week schedule.

Sunday SB 300 plus food and hotel.

Monday SB 600 plus food, and she host.

Tuesday None.

Wednesday new SB 400 plus food and hotel.

Thursday 2 SBs 500+400 plus food and hotels.

Friday SB 400 plus food and hotel.

Saturday None.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Lobsid;5042253]Girls say that because they want to make sure that your not a crazy guy that will murder them. Most of the guys on the site are weird. Almost every SB I meet up with say I am one of the most normal person they met on the site. Some girls require M&G date 1st, but most of the time I get FC. Remember the girls that msg you are interested too. Hardest part is weeding out scammers[/QUOTE]Thanks man. Was nervous to get back in. It's so many options but I have to at least verify them and make sure it's safe as possible.

Anyone get anywhere with this super cute blonde?

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/ebac0c25-da16-40e2-ae09-f61980611e94[/URL]

I tried this one out, she initially hit me up or probably wouldn't have happend since my searches on seeking cap at 23. Very insistent that everything be covered, but decent body and got into it. Probably won't see her again, she was a backup for an 18 yo that got cold feet when it was FC time.

Great body, she definitely works out.

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/01bb1de0-cda5-461d-b3e1-4f7d490db6c3[/URL]

[QUOTE=KevinCalormis;5042510]I tried this one out, she initially hit me up or probably wouldn't have happend since my searches on seeking cap at 23. Very insistent that everything be covered, but decent body and got into it. Probably won't see her again, she was a backup for an 18 yo that got cold feet when it was FC time.

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/01bb1de0-cda5-461d-b3e1-4f7d490db6c3[/URL][/QUOTE]So I viewed her profile and I saw that she viewed mine. I tried to go back to her profile and it wasn't available. Either she deleted her profile or she blocked me for some unknown reason.

[QUOTE=ErnestLl;5042476]Anyone get anywhere with this super cute blonde?

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/ebac0c25-da16-40e2-ae09-f61980611e94[/URL][/QUOTE]I can verify she is real. Doesn't seem to response to messages much though. Most likely very low volume, and just on SA looking to marry rich.

Saw her today.

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/373ad652-7dce-4064-ab43-d5aea07de48a[/URL]

Well she's a big mess and I did search this forum and tried my best to find a review but nothing came up. Even when I searched for an Emily. Well, this was my first outing in a long time and I've been MIA a few years so I knew it was wrong to meet her seeing as she said she had kids and it seemed to good to be true from her pics.

Upon arriving for our date she was cool at first. But as I talked to her more and more she fell apart. It was sad really. It kinda made me want to get up and just leave, but she explained symptoms she had I can't even remember them all. But she had many many problems. She had a wig on and wore it proudly. It was visible to see the strings on her head. Nice face and decent body. So she was definitely fuckable. But after she kept telling me about her problems with her ex and revealing how she was assaulted in the military I lost all interest. How does she expect me to ever want to bang her after hearing that. And she clearly needs help and is super struggling to provide for her kids. Shame. But I'm not in the hype of being a hero so onto the next girl LOL.

[QUOTE=GeechieDan;5042551]So I viewed her profile and I saw that she viewed mine. I tried to go back to her profile and it wasn't available. Either she deleted her profile or she blocked me for some unknown reason.[/QUOTE]She viewed me first last night, I sent a message and poof.

I want a harem. I get bored of fc the same girl. I want to FC a different girl everyday, which I am currently doing. I'm not as picky about looks as some guys. I rather have variety. Currently, have 1 ex professional cheerleader. I'm meeting up with a model this week. I have 3 cute college girls. 1 Army soldier, because I support our troops. A gym manager, who is very flexible. A married MILF who lactating. My longest SB just graduated college. I would get bored if all my SBs were models.

Because of my business obligations I can't travel more then 2 hrs away. I can only play in DC, Virginia, Maryland or Pennsylvania. Before I became a SD. I was meetup with high end escorts. I hooked up with models and pornstars during that time. Fun, but I prefer variety.

[QUOTE=Zerry;5042288]Like I said, I need to party with you. I got to say though, if I had $3,500 a week to blow on SA I'd probably raise my standards and lower frequency. You do get some gems at 400 but, not 5 a week. No judgement intended.

Have you gone after some of the high-end girls? There are not a lot of them, but there are a few chicks around here that are truly model caliber. In SoCal there were insanely hot women on SA. Using some of the budget for destination sugaring is something else I'd do.

Search San Diego / LA, you could easily line up a dozen potential girls at the 300-600 price point and see most of them in a week. Man I miss living there. I was having more 3 somes there than one on one dates here and spending the same money. It's been a while, but some of my connections might still be active.[/QUOTE]

You say you aren't picky, but at 3-400 the choices are all pretty rough (or ruff also works). Richmond is a much better market, so that's probably were most of your activity is. I just don't have the energy to make that drive and deal with hotels, so I am very picky. The other week I drove an hour to meet a new girl, got about 10 feet from her in the parking lot and said, "sorry I'm not here to meet you and left. " She was possibly cute, but she was wearing sweat pants and had fingernails that were over an inch long.

I have a solid regular that keeps my brain clear when I'm having a dry spell on Bumble / Hinge / SA.

Also, is it that former Redskins cheerleader? I talked to her and suspected she was fake, or at the very least a take the money and ghost scam. We talked a lot, but she would never meet up. I insist on meeting in public first, so maybe that was her hang up.

My golden rule of doing this is to never fuck around with anyone who has nothing to loose. I need to feel confident that a girl has things going for her, and that she doesn't want to be exposed for being on SA as much as I don't.

[QUOTE=Lobsid;5043624]I want a harem. I get bored of fc the same girl. I want to FC a different girl everyday, which I am currently doing. I'm not as picky about looks as some guys. I rather have variety. Currently, have 1 ex professional cheerleader. I'm meeting up with a model this week. I have 3 cute college girls. 1 Army soldier, because I support our troops. A gym manager, who is very flexible. A married MILF who lactating. My longest SB just graduated college. I would get bored if all my SBs were models.

Because of my business obligations I can't travel more then 2 hrs away. I can only play in DC, Virginia, Maryland or Pennsylvania. Before I became a SD. I was meetup with high end escorts. I hooked up with models and pornstars during that time. Fun, but I prefer variety.[/QUOTE]

As I recall, the holidays are good times for sugar as CoEds and other SBs are looking for $$ for holiday shopping.

This year, PT jobs will be in short supply.

Add to that, many colleges are wrapping up at Thanksgiving and not starting back till late Jan or even Feb.

Lots of free time, little chances for income = well stocked bowl.

Most of my SBs are in Maryland and NOVA. I have none in DC, and a few in PA. I just started looking into Richmond, and haven't had much luck there yet. My cheerleader wasn't a Redskins cheerleader. She cheer for a different state 2 years ago. She never told me about her cheerleading career. I only found out about it by googling her real name. Plus she was a beauty pageant winner for the city her sports team was at. I'm not married so I have less to lose. I do have a fiance, but she on the west coast. With corona we aren't meetup as much. The biggest commit I get from all my SBs is that I'm a nice and normal guy. My success rates increase when I don't talk about sexual fetishes (bbfscip) till after we meetup. I only let the girls know before hand that I'm seeking adult relationship. After that I treat everything else like a normal date.

[QUOTE=Zerry;5043981]You say you aren't picky, but at 3-400 the choices are all pretty rough (or ruff also works). Richmond is a much better market, so that's probably were most of your activity is. I just don't have the energy to make that drive and deal with hotels, so I am very picky. The other week I drove an hour to meet a new girl, got about 10 feet from her in the parking lot and said, "sorry I'm not here to meet you and left. " She was possibly cute, but she was wearing sweat pants and had fingernails that were over an inch long.

I have a solid regular that keeps my brain clear when I'm having a dry spell on Bumble / Hinge / SA.

Also, is it that former Redskins cheerleader? I talked to her and suspected she was fake, or at the very least a take the money and ghost scam. We talked a lot, but she would never meet up. I insist on meeting in public first, so maybe that was her hang up.

My golden rule of doing this is to never fuck around with anyone who has nothing to loose. I need to feel confident that a girl has things going for her, and that she doesn't want to be exposed for being on SA as much as I don't.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=GeechieDan;5042551]So I viewed her profile and I saw that she viewed mine. I tried to go back to her profile and it wasn't available. Either she deleted her profile or she blocked me for some unknown reason.[/QUOTE]She blocked you. She doesn't have a pic on her profile. Did she when you saw it?

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/ea12e935-29ac-4178-8e77-56afd5fbb2c5[/URL]

I may be traveling and wanted some intel on this young lady. Texted her and she's DTF.

[QUOTE=GeechieDan;5044490][URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/ea12e935-29ac-4178-8e77-56afd5fbb2c5[/URL]

I may be traveling and wanted some intel on this young lady. Texted her and she's DTF.[/QUOTE]Sent me a pic that matched her profile. Claims to be a UVA first year, but from Cville and living at home taking all classes online.

Texted extensively for a day, been silent for 3.

Meant to say the choices in D. C. Are a bit rough. Surrounding areas look a bit better. Blackmail is one thing, but there is also getting threatened, robbed, stabbed or otherwise harassed. I also consider that if a SB has a run in with LE of any sort, even unrelated, to SA it could lead back to me. Extreme I know.

[QUOTE=Lobsid;5044206]Most of my SBs are in Maryland and NOVA. I have none in DC, and a few in PA. I just started looking into Richmond, and haven't had much luck there yet. My cheerleader wasn't a Redskins cheerleader. She cheer for a different state 2 years ago. She never told me about her cheerleading career. I only found out about it by googling her real name. Plus she was a beauty pageant winner for the city her sports team was at. I'm not married so I have less to lose. I do have a fiance, but she on the west coast. With corona we aren't meetup as much. The biggest commit I get from all my SBs is that I'm a nice and normal guy. My success rates increase when I don't talk about sexual fetishes (bbfscip) till after we meetup. I only let the girls know before hand that I'm seeking adult relationship. After that I treat everything else like a normal date.[/QUOTE]

You, could say the same thing about meeting any girl on any dating site. Sorry, I'm not that paranoid. With all things in life you should be careful, and be aware of your surroundings.

[QUOTE=Zerry;5044540]Meant to say the choices in D. C. Are a bit rough. Surrounding areas look a bit better. Blackmail is one thing, but there is also getting threatened, robbed, stabbed or otherwise harassed. I also consider that if a SB has a run in with LE of any sort, even unrelated, to SA it could lead back to me. Extreme I know.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Lobsid;5045078]You, could say the same thing about meeting any girl on any dating site. Sorry, I'm not that paranoid. With all things in life you should be careful, and be aware of your surroundings.[/QUOTE]I also only meet them in public too.

So my premium membership expired at 830 this morning. By 9 am I got a discount offer of 33% to renew. First time ever had one that quick. It's usually months before they off it, if ever.

[QUOTE=ErnestLl;5044517]Sent me a pic that matched her profile. Claims to be a UVA first year, but from Cville and living at home taking all classes online.

Texted extensively for a day, been silent for 3.[/QUOTE]I sent 2 text messages since yesterday. Gone silent on me too.

So I just wanted to see if anyone has actually met up with her or chatted with her. Pics look too good to be true.

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/3445aa59-3fab-4fad-916f-85e708f67b1f[/URL]

Sent initial email but haven't heard back.

So I'm messaging another late 30's POT who was listed in RVA, then changed to woodbridge and Cville.

FunSapiosexual I think was her handle.

She finally replies "I'm not interested. YOur name is Ernest and one of the girls warned us about you".

Gee. Wonder who that was.

[QUOTE=TheHobbyLobby;5045956]So I just wanted to see if anyone has actually met up with her or chatted with her. Pics look too good to be true.

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/3445aa59-3fab-4fad-916f-85e708f67b1f[/URL]

Sent initial email but haven't heard back.[/QUOTE]I sent a message and she replied back immediately. Also found a 19 year old who just joined. She's so unfamiliar. I take it she's never done this before.

LOL, I told me girl she lucky to have me. Look at all these girls selling pus for a little $250-400!

Anyone seen her?

https://www.seeking.com/member/4bd92598-ce4c-4b61-8bc6-85a92a488354

She says she won’t share her body for $$$ but I told her let’s go out and see what happens and she agreed. Is this a lost cause?

[QUOTE=ErnestLl;5046361]So I'm messaging another late 30's POT who was listed in RVA, then changed to woodbridge and Cville.

FunSapiosexual I think was her handle.

She finally replies "I'm not interested. YOur name is Ernest and one of the girls warned us about you".

Gee. Wonder who that was.[/QUOTE]Do you all know where the SBs are sharing information about SDs? Similar to this forum for us?

[QUOTE=Lodzvisiter;5047377]Do you all know where the SBs are sharing information about SDs? Similar to this forum for us?[/QUOTE]I thought I heard SA had forums for SBs, but I could be mistaken.

Reddit has all kinds of message boards, so that is one likely option.

Plus there is a fair amount of word of mouth, mainly among the more UTR / semi pros like Classy. They have friends they told about it or talked into joining.

Had one gal in Lburg tell me to FO because her friend / roommate told her I stiffer her on a video she sent me unsoliicited.

If you believe in the "textbook SB" theory that they all aren't ******, then they probably don't compare notes with other SBs -- " hey, if we are getting passed round guy to guy, here are the fat cocks and fat wallets to message and these are the ones to avoid" not seeing that much as a widespread trend. I think they more trade notes on how to be an SB and tell anonymous -- and embellished on the $$ - war stories about the men who they have met.

As this forum clearly proves, when guys talk sex specifics about the women they are with, every other guy wants a shot at that. If they don't consider themselves ******, most women arent going to want what some other woman has. Which is why your wives are telling their friends whether or not you are good in bed and the friends arent coming on the swinging dicks and expert pussy eaters.

In your circle.

[QUOTE=Lodzvisiter;5047377]Do you all know where the SBs are sharing information about SDs? Similar to this forum for us?[/QUOTE]I have been curious about this as well, because I have had the same profile and user name on SA for a long time and sometimes I wonder if I should delete and create a new one. I went down the reddit rabbit hole and the main sugar forum is titled sugar life style. In its rules it specifically prohibits posting others identifying information and says that any "blacklist" type of post will be removed.