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[QUOTE=Korlock;6494091]I did not have a chance to do this today. Just means I'm going to have to go back another time.
I did, however, go into the back with Tasha. Twice. She's in town from Florida, her last night at the club is Saturday. She's a petite, blonde girl with an amazing ass, a great, bubbly personality, and she gives an unforgettable experience in the back rooms. Lovely person. I can't make it in on Saturday, so if you want to treat yourself, catch her on the day shift then. Some of the most fun I've ever had at a club or similar environment across several different states. Florida's lucky to have her.[/QUOTE]Does Tasha have curly short blonde hair? Used to live up north?
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[QUOTE=Bmarr77;6494402]Does Tasha have curly short blonde hair? Used to live up north?[/QUOTE]Longer blonde hair. If you were there during Thursday day shift, there was a blonde there with a pixie cut. Not the same person. I talked to the pixie cut girl (forget her name) and she told me she was brand new to dancing there.
Tasha used to dance at Bogart's some years ago before moving down south.
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Carrie / Summer
[QUOTE=Bmarr77;6493204]Big tit Carrie had been working at SC on some weekends last fall / summer, have not seen her recently went by the name Summer.[/QUOTE]I heard that, too. But the week I was there last year, I never ran into her. Asked about her and was given the "who?" response. Oh well. I enjoyed my time with her. Hoped to see her one more time, since I don't go to Detroit very often anymore.
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[QUOTE=Korlock;6494408]Longer blonde hair. If you were there during Thursday day shift, there was a blonde there with a pixie cut. Not the same person. I talked to the pixie cut girl (forget her name) and she told me she was brand new to dancing there.
Tasha used to dance at Bogart's some years ago before moving down south.[/QUOTE]I am thinking of a different tasha worked at the cricket before she worked at bogarts and lived somewhere up north, must of stopped dancing.
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[QUOTE=JamieGreek2019;6494041]I stopped by Flight Club this past Monday late afternoon for a few hours. Club was pretty quite with maybe 10 guys and a similar number of dancers. Overall quality wasn't great. Tipped a young, cute, spinner, Latina named Valentina who joined me after her time on stage. Super petite and cute. Turned out she's only 18 and has been there less than three months. After a brief chat she informed me she 'likes to give dances but nothing else. ' Before I could ask more questions she saw one of her regulars and ran off. Decided to wait for shift change and as the day shift left there were two heaver set dancers that rotated on stage for over an hour (one black, one white) as the night shift slowly filtered in. Got tired of waiting for new talent and headed home. Not sure if I picked a bad day or if the talent at FC is not what it used to be?
Stay safe,
J.[/QUOTE]IMHO.
The talented is not anywhere near where used to be for decades.
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[QUOTE=TomSmith26;6495875]IMHO.
The talented is not anywhere near where used to be for decades.[/QUOTE]So confused, what did you mean to say?
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[QUOTE=TomSmith26;6495875]IMHO.
The talented is not anywhere near where used to be for decades.[/QUOTE]Well, In My Humble Opinion: in many ways, it's better.
Places like FC and LS still have premium talent (but, to your point, definitely a drop off at Hamilton clubs and that overall second tier, of clubs but let's be honest, it always was a drop off).
Services are a way wider menu than 10 years ago and 15 years ago.
But now, over the past few years, the GPS virus has taken hold at many locales, making services unaffordable.
In addition, the inroads of AMPs, coupled with the Detroit crackdown and impacts from Covid shutdowns and customers wary of bars have driven club volumes lower, making it less attractive for the "independent contractors" to make a living.
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[QUOTE=Lamarr;6497762]Well, In My Humble Opinion: in many ways, it's better.
Places like FC and LS still have premium talent (but, to your point, definitely a drop off at Hamilton clubs and that overall second tier, of clubs but let's be honest, it always was a drop off).
Services are a way wider menu than 10 years ago and 15 years ago.
But now, over the past few years, the GPS virus has taken hold at many locales, making services unaffordable.
In addition, the inroads of AMPs, coupled with the Detroit crackdown and impacts from Covid shutdowns and customers wary of bars have driven club volumes lower, making it less attractive for the "independent contractors" to make a living.[/QUOTE]I don't have the same perspective as many here since I've been in the area for less than a year.
I will say that the 'low-end' clubs in the Dearborn / Inkster areas are a pretty rare beast. I've been to many cities in the states and tried to indulge in most of them, and there aren't many places in the country where you can visit a place which is pretty much a legitimate whorehouse with a full bar and some dancers, with no pretentious vibes or fake niceties. Maybe that isn't everyone's vibe, but I dig it a lot. Shelling out $4 or more for a disinterested girl with GPS in a nice, upscale club is as soulless an experience as a man can (over) pay for.
I've found the talent to be pretty nice at the low-end level. I'm not expecting underwear models. But I'm also not looking for underwear models, because I think most of the time they're pretty subpar lays. If I'm going to put money on the table, I want to have fun with someone who can at least act like they're enjoying what we're doing. And in the low-end clubs, I've found several girls who are either very convincing actresses, or actually have some fun with their jobs.
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[QUOTE=Lamarr;6497762]Well, In My Humble Opinion: in many ways, it's better.
Places like FC and LS still have premium talent (but, to your point, definitely a drop off at Hamilton clubs and that overall second tier, of clubs but let's be honest, it always was a drop off).
Services are a way wider menu than 10 years ago and 15 years ago.
But now, over the past few years, the GPS virus has taken hold at many locales, making services unaffordable.
In addition, the inroads of AMPs, coupled with the Detroit crackdown and impacts from Covid shutdowns and customers wary of bars have driven club volumes lower, making it less attractive for the "independent contractors" to make a living.[/QUOTE]While I can't comment on FC and LS, because I don't go there, I'm somewhat a regular and H8 N and Bogart's. I used to go to Henry's South a lot but as we know, it's closed now.
As far as the attractiveness level at either H8 N or Bogart's, it's gone downhill. For instance, I was at Bogart's on day shift recently and, disappointingly, it was old home week. There were a number of dancers I knew from South and of course, Tori was there. Tori is a Bogart's fixture and alone is enough to turn customers away. Of the two clubs, I frequent, I go North most often. I used to have a number of semi regulars on nights but not anymore. The only once I see with any regularity is Nicole and days and I've reviewed her extensively.
I've found that new or newer girls are far less negotiable as well, so yeah, GPS is a problem too. If some of you pay $200 for 15-20 minutes in a cramped back room, well, more power to you, but not me. Keep in mind that when you do that, it pushes pricing up across the board, for everyone.
So, fewer choices and less negotiable are definitely detractions and the biggest reason that I don't go to the clubs as often as I used too. At one point, I was going once and sometimes twice a week and now, it's once or twice a month at most. The last review that I posted was the first time I'd been out been out before that, in maybe 5-6 weeks. I thought about going out last week but it's a 1/2 hour drive out there for me and it's very disappointing to make that drive only to have it be a bust out. So, I stayed home.
I've seen the SC mentioned a number of times and have considered going over there but the problem is that I'm not really known there anymore. Ten years ago, it was a different story but now, I don't know anyone at all. Being an unknown can make things a bit more difficult.
Quite honestly and I'm sure that many of you will disagree, is one of the main reasons the selection is worse is because of the low unemployment rate. It's 3.7%. Not all the girls are addicts and other decent paying options make money a bit easierdoing something else, instead of the nightly hustle to sell their bodies. On the plus side, new models come out every year.
As I type this, I'm 50-50 on venturing out tonight. It's a rainy day and Monday is North's dance day, so who knows, maybe I'll find someone new.
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[QUOTE=Korlock;6498000]I don't have the same perspective as many here since I've been in the area for less than a year.
I will say that the 'low-end' clubs in the Dearborn / Inkster areas are a pretty rare beast. I've been to many cities in the states and tried to indulge in most of them, and there aren't many places in the country where you can visit a place which is pretty much a legitimate whorehouse with a full bar and some dancers, with no pretentious vibes or fake niceties. Maybe that isn't everyone's vibe, but I dig it a lot. Shelling out $4 or more for a disinterested girl with GPS in a nice, upscale club is as soulless an experience as a man can (over) pay for.
I've found the talent to be pretty nice at the low-end level. I'm not expecting underwear models. But I'm also not looking for underwear models, because I think most of the time they're pretty subpar lays. If I'm going to put money on the table, I want to have fun with someone who can at least act like they're enjoying what we're doing. And in the low-end clubs, I've found several girls who are either very convincing actresses, or actually have some fun with their jobs.[/QUOTE]Agree! Even a bad day at Bogie or H8 is still awesome when you think about it!
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All great points!
My perspective is a bit different, as I've been hitting the clubs since about 2001-ish. I remember going to FC on Fridays and the place was maxed out by 10 pm. You might get some standing room space on the 2nd floor if you were lucky. The girls looked like one model after model, stunner after stunner. Of course, action was lap dance city. In time things got more and more competitive and therefore more open, starting 2008-ish or so, especially as Colosseum, Penthouse, and Hustler opened their doors. If you want some, you'll get pretty much whatever you want. I don't think SCs provide that service in any other market across the country.
The second tier clubs always had their hit or miss on talent, but I've hit a few stunners at BGs over the years, so they're out there, usually check-to-cheek with the over the hill dancers and the 'OMG don't look at her, just watch the ball game' talent levels (usually larger).
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[QUOTE=Incognito1234;6498477]As I type this, I'm 50-50 on venturing out tonight. It's a rainy day and Monday is North's dance day, so who knows, maybe I'll find someone new.[/QUOTE]All extremely salient points. I think it's probably safe to say that, like most things, clubs are giving people less for what they pay than they were some years back. It's a trend that spans across just about every industry imaginable. And it does suck.
Did you wind up going out last night? I did day shift at Bogie's, and, as I'm coming to expect, had a wonderful time. Spent a lot of time at the bar talking to Autumn, the white girl with the glasses. She's awkward in a way that I found endearing. Fun in the back, too. Best way I could describe her. Both from speaking to her at the bar and engaging in extracurriculars. Is that she has something of a girl next door vibe. Less PSE than I've had from other girls. More tender. Took her time, lots of embracing, kissing, and lightly scratching each other's backs before getting into it. Very fun, very refreshing experience. Offered a discount on a second round which I was thinking about taking her up on, but didn't find her before my time had drawn short and had to get going.
Going to put a pretty firm YMMV on this report because I did spend so much time talking with her before we wound up in the back together.
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The key for me
[QUOTE=Lamarr;6499420]All great points!
My perspective is a bit different, as I've been hitting the clubs since about 2001-ish. I remember going to FC on Fridays and the place was maxed out by 10 pm. You might get some standing room space on the 2nd floor if you were lucky. The girls looked like one model after model, stunner after stunner. Of course, action was lap dance city. In time things got more and more competitive and therefore more open, starting 2008-ish or so, especially as Colosseum, Penthouse, and Hustler opened their doors. If you want some, you'll get pretty much whatever you want. I don't think SCs provide that service in any other market across the country.
The second tier clubs always had their hit or miss on talent, but I've hit a few stunners at BGs over the years, so they're out there, usually check-to-cheek with the over the hill dancers and the 'OMG don't look at her, just watch the ball game' talent levels (usually larger).[/QUOTE]Really with my bad back, knees and longer legs, I need to set up meets outside the club.
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[QUOTE=Korlock;6499609]All extremely salient points. I think it's probably safe to say that, like most things, clubs are giving people less for what they pay than they were some years back. It's a trend that spans across just about every industry imaginable. And it does suck.
Did you wind up going out last night? I did day shift at Bogie's, and, as I'm coming to expect, had a wonderful time. Spent a lot of time at the bar talking to Autumn, the white girl with the glasses. She's awkward in a way that I found endearing. Fun in the back, too. Best way I could describe her. Both from speaking to her at the bar and engaging in extracurriculars. Is that she has something of a girl next door vibe. Less PSE than I've had from other girls. More tender. Took her time, lots of embracing, kissing, and lightly scratching each other's backs before getting into it. Very fun, very refreshing experience. Offered a discount on a second round which I was thinking about taking her up on, but didn't find her before my time had drawn short and had to get going.
Going to put a pretty firm YMMV on this report because I did spend so much time talking with her before we wound up in the back together.[/QUOTE]No, I didn't go out last night, although I seriously considered it. For some reason, I just couldn't get it out of my mind how bad it would be to make the drive and bust out. It's pretty bad when the choice is between kicking back and home and potentially getting my dick wet. Maybe if the talent has improved the next time I venture out, I'll start going more as well.
Now that you've described her, I know who Autumn is. I've had no experience with her myself, other than a hello but I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed your time with her. Do you think you've found yourself a new regular with her?
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Worth the trip?
Hello everybody. I live in SW Michigan and I am thinking about making the trip to the Detroit area on Saturday, Sunday, Monday, or Tuesday to visit one of the local clubs for some extras. Does anybody have any suggestions on where I should go and when I should go there with a budget of $200-$300? Can anybody give thorough descriptions or even pictures of the VIP areas of the various clubs? I have some old injuries and I do not bend well so comfort and space are important to me. Any tips or advice for ensuring that I have the best possible time on my potential visit? Is it even worth driving 2+ hours for the experiences reported here? I would truly appreciate any advice or guidance that anybody can offer.
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Save the drive
[QUOTE=UrinalDeuce;6500448]Hello everybody. I live in SW Michigan and I am thinking about making the trip to the Detroit area on Saturday, Sunday, Monday, or Tuesday to visit one of the local clubs for some extras. Does anybody have any suggestions on where I should go and when I should go there with a budget of $200-$300? Can anybody give thorough descriptions or even pictures of the VIP areas of the various clubs? I have some old injuries and I do not bend well so comfort and space are important to me. Any tips or advice for ensuring that I have the best possible time on my potential visit? Is it even worth driving 2+ hours for the experiences reported here? I would truly appreciate any advice or guidance that anybody can offer.[/QUOTE]Honestly, I would skip the drive. Find you an AMP in Jackson, Lansing or Flint, depending where you are coming from. Skip the club maybe find a local gal to spend the money on instead. You are going to burn through 200-300 so quick here, it won't be worth the drive of 2 hours.
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[QUOTE=Incognito1234;6499776]Now that you've described her, I know who Autumn is. I've had no experience with her myself, other than a hello but I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed your time with her. Do you think you've found yourself a new regular with her?[/QUOTE]To be honest with you, I've met a few girls at Bogart's that I like enough to want to both sit and chat with them for a while and do repeat VIP experiences with. Autumn's definitely one of those girls. It took me a while to get at it, but she has a fun personality beneath the stripper veneer, which is always a fun thing to discover. If I were to really want to establish that sort of 'regular' dynamic with someone there, it would be with the goal of seeking carryout services on a semi-regular basis. So I'd have to feel comfortable enough with her to want to spend time with her outside of the club environment.
I'm not at that level with anyone I've met there, yet. But I am enjoying the fact that I have never had a bad time when I've shown up for day shift.
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Couldn't agree more.
My 100% indicator that I'm going to have a shitty time is a doorman / security in a tux.
[QUOTE=Korlock;6498000]I don't have the same perspective as many here since I've been in the area for less than a year.
I will say that the 'low-end' clubs in the Dearborn / Inkster areas are a pretty rare beast. I've been to many cities in the states and tried to indulge in most of them, and there aren't many places in the country where you can visit a place which is pretty much a legitimate whorehouse with a full bar and some dancers, with no pretentious vibes or fake niceties. Maybe that isn't everyone's vibe, but I dig it a lot. Shelling out $4 or more for a disinterested girl with GPS in a nice, upscale club is as soulless an experience as a man can (over) pay for.
I've found the talent to be pretty nice at the low-end level. I'm not expecting underwear models. But I'm also not looking for underwear models, because I think most of the time they're pretty subpar lays. If I'm going to put money on the table, I want to have fun with someone who can at least act like they're enjoying what we're doing. And in the low-end clubs, I've found several girls who are either very convincing actresses, or actually have some fun with their jobs.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=UrinalDeuce;6500448]Hello everybody. I live in SW Michigan and I am thinking about making the trip to the Detroit area on Saturday, Sunday, Monday, or Tuesday to visit one of the local clubs for some extras. Does anybody have any suggestions on where I should go and when I should go there with a budget of $200-$300? Can anybody give thorough descriptions or even pictures of the VIP areas of the various clubs? I have some old injuries and I do not bend well so comfort and space are important to me. Any tips or advice for ensuring that I have the best possible time on my potential visit? Is it even worth driving 2+ hours for the experiences reported here? I would truly appreciate any advice or guidance that anybody can offer.[/QUOTE]Have to agree with the other poster and recommend an AMP instead if comfort is a concern. The VIP rooms aren't going to be incredibly accommodating of any injuries you have which would make something that should be fun uncomfortable instead.
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The Cricket
Decided to stop by for lunch. Figured wth and was met by KAT, she had stockings on and that is a winner for me. We settles on $1. 4 for everything. Lots of rules. Only do doggie, CBJ, no sucking on tits. I had old man problems like I usually do in the VIP. Still the limited options kinda sucked. But she is really tight, so good luck lasting. Lunch was good too.
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[QUOTE=Wiggles0923;6501432]Decided to stop by for lunch. Figured wth and was met by KAT, she had stockings on and that is a winner for me. We settles on $1. 4 for everything. Lots of rules. Only do doggie, CBJ, no sucking on tits. I had old man problems like I usually do in the VIP. Still the limited options kinda sucked. But she is really tight, so good luck lasting. Lunch was good too.[/QUOTE]Brunette with long hair, saggy tits? Sounds like you had a good time, good for you!
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Yep that's the one
[QUOTE=Bmarr77;6501544]Brunette with long hair, saggy tits? Sounds like you had a good time, good for you![/QUOTE]My body let me down but she could have lightened up on the rules.
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[QUOTE=Wiggles0923;6501696]My body let me down but she could have lightened up on the rules.[/QUOTE]Right, I bet she did not tell you all those rules until you were all back in VIP paid and ready for fun.
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Bogarts
Thanks to the monger who recommended Tasha at Bogarts! I saw her and it was great, she is a late 20's blond with tats, really sweet and a tiger in the VIP, see her tomorrow (Thursday day shift), get there early to have a chance to see her on her final day at work! She made my top ten list all time!
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Henry's Day Shift
So, I ventured out to North for day shift today. There were about 10 girls working. No Nicole. Hannah was there and I'd have gone back with her but we haven't been able to come up with an acceptable deal to both of us. I talked to Vixen for a bit we didn't go back either. In regard to Sunflower on nights, I've been told that she doesn't come in much anymore. Oh well, too bad. I really need to find a good regular on night shift.
In regard to Bogarts, I didn't go over there. My last day shift visit was old home week and so bad, I decided against it. I had no desire to bust out twice again. So, for me, one drink and done.
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[QUOTE=JackOfClubs;6502009]Thanks to the monger who recommended Tasha at Bogarts! I saw her and it was great, she is a late 20's blond with tats, really sweet and a tiger in the VIP, see her tomorrow (Thursday day shift), get there early to have a chance to see her on her final day at work! She made my top ten list all time![/QUOTE]Glad you got a chance to try it. Tasha's a total gem. Very, very fun girl to spend time with.
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The Den or Divine in GR
[QUOTE=UrinalDeuce;6500448]Hello everybody. I live in SW Michigan and I am thinking about making the trip to the Detroit area on Saturday, Sunday, Monday, or Tuesday to visit one of the local clubs for some extras. Does anybody have any suggestions on where I should go and when I should go there with a budget of $200-$300? Can anybody give thorough descriptions or even pictures of the VIP areas of the various clubs? I have some old injuries and I do not bend well so comfort and space are important to me. Any tips or advice for ensuring that I have the best possible time on my potential visit? Is it even worth driving 2+ hours for the experiences reported here? I would truly appreciate any advice or guidance that anybody can offer.[/QUOTE]I agree with those who advise against a strip club. Being from SW Michigan I would head to GR and any one of the ladies working out of the Den or Divine. Read the threads in the GR section to find who best suits your needs.
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18
Gents,
I was at Flight Club last week (day shift Monday) and spoke to a petite, Latina spinner named Valentina. Offered to buy her a drink but she declined because she'd just turned 18 three months ago. I was short on time and didn't get the chance to take her to the VIP so can't speak to her performance, can only say she was young and hot.
Anyone have any intel to share? Would make the trip back if she delivers in the VIP. Thanks!
Stay safe,
J.
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Next week
My wife and I are going to be in the area next week. Looking to have some fun. Planning on going to The Landing Strip. Any chance at so, e extras here? Any advice?
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Please read archives.
[QUOTE=Curiouscouple6;6503316]My wife and I are going to be in the area next week. Looking to have some fun. Planning on going to The Landing Strip. Any chance at so, e extras here? Any advice?[/QUOTE]LS has been covered extensively, you won't have to go back too many pages back for a trove of information.
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BTs
Does anyone know if the Croatian / Serbian stripper is back at BTs? Taller with big tits and braces. I've seen her a few times, last fall she said she's going to Europe for awhile and I haven't seen her since. I'm not there often and also not good with names. Thanks mongers!
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[QUOTE=JDoe1969;6500760]Honestly, I would skip the drive. Find you an AMP in Jackson, Lansing or Flint, depending where you are coming from. Skip the club maybe find a local gal to spend the money on instead. You are going to burn through 200-300 so quick here, it won't be worth the drive of 2 hours.[/QUOTE]He said SW MI so among the several terrific options there's well regarded AMPs in Battle Creek as well, or Grand Rapids seems to be a treasure trove of non Asian options, some with GPS and some with great reviews / menus, usually 40/60 like many AMPs with somewhat higher expectations of tips for services rendered.
The Detroit strip club scene has its own draw and can be more entertaining and if not more economical more bang (ing) for the buck if you can get what you want for $140 ish a pop out saves the $60 AMP door fee. You do lose part of that to drinks and the stupid VIP entry but all in all even if it's a wash you got your pipes cleaned and get to check out the other talent. I'm an hour away and I still like to hit the clubs when I can, but that hasn't been since covid. Hopefully I can fix that soon.
I usually hit the Toledo AMPs but Detroit has its own draws.
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Need advice
So I can't fuck worth a damn in the VIP room. How does someone order take out? How does it usually work? Are girls open to it?
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[QUOTE=Curiouscouple6;6503316]My wife and I are going to be in the area next week. Looking to have some fun. Planning on going to The Landing Strip. Any chance at so, e extras here? Any advice?[/QUOTE]Be aware that landing strip requires valet parking, they won't let you park on the street and walk in, even if you offer to pay for valet parking. They want to control when you leave. If you have a dispute with someone you won't get your keys back.
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SC weekend afternoon
Has anyone been to Criket on Saturday afternoons? I think I'm going to check it out tomorrow. Is it just like weekday afternoons?
TIA.
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[QUOTE=Wiggles0923;6504088]So I can't fuck worth a damn in the VIP room. How does someone order take out? How does it usually work? Are girls open to it?[/QUOTE]Just ask. This is the most YMMV ever, though. Girl probably isn't going to look for carryout if she feels like she can get money from you in the club instead, so she's only agreeing to it if she already feels very comfortable with you OR she's hard-up enough for money that she can't pass it up.
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[QUOTE=Wiggles0923;6504088]So I can't fuck worth a damn in the VIP room. How does someone order take out? How does it usually work? Are girls open to it?[/QUOTE]OTC is rare in Detroit, probably has to do with a few things. The main I think is that most don't see the need for OTC based off how much they'll do ITC, and how much money they make for little effort. Add in how easy it is to have fun in the club, most guys probably don't even consider asking, so the dancer sees no need to bother. Those that do bring it up often are expensive, I have been qoted $500 or more for an hour or even a half hour. There there's safety. If a customer acts up or doesn't pay security quickly there.
As for how it works, it's the same Detroit, or any city. Most of the time the dancer brings it up. Often, she'll quietly bring it up at the table where it's harder for management to overhear. Or she'll bring it up towards the end of a dance or after. Most of the time she's brought up in a text message once we've exchanged numbers.
It's been a while since I have gotten OTC offers in Detroit, but most of the time it' been H8, Bogart's and Criket's. Occasionally Landing Strip, and never once at Flight Club, but have had a FC dancer offer at other clubs, so I suspect the dancers there are monitored.
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Afternoon
[QUOTE=SamPerkins420;6504203]Has anyone been to Criket on Saturday afternoons? I think I'm going to check it out tomorrow. Is it just like weekday afternoons?
TIA.[/QUOTE]They have a good lunch with decent prices.
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[QUOTE=SamPerkins420;6504203]Has anyone been to Criket on Saturday afternoons? I think I'm going to check it out tomorrow. Is it just like weekday afternoons?
TIA.[/QUOTE]No it is not as good as a weekday afternoon, Saturday day shift is usually slow at SC and all clubs during the summer months, everyone has other things to do.
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Centerfold
Any one has inputs on the strip club on the are. Some time see good number of vehicles and don't find any report about this in the forum. If not inputs, may me will TOFTT. I am sure, some of the forum veterans will have inputs.