Massage Parlor Reports

[QUOTE=Royboy52]Anyone, besides me, visited an asian named Helen?

She advertises at bodyworks.com. She is an attractive chinese gal 25-38 years old. Hard to tell her age. I got a good massage for $70 for one hour. No offers on her part or mine. Tipped $20. Total OTD $90. What did I do wrong? O.K. Admitally, I wasn't really all that horny today so I didn't come on at all. Is this typical for this massager? Are extras on the table? Or not? I would like to know others experience before I repeat.[/QUOTE]They won't offer the menu if you give them money anyways. If we all stuck to our guns we could get better service. If she is just gonna give you a massage then the 70 you are paying is already too much. Reg massage any other place it's about 30-40. Eventually, she'll ask for a tip and then you can see a menu.

Visited yesterday in the AM. Place has parking to the rear. Greeted by Lily at side entrance, 40 or 50 ish korean girl. Not ugly, but not great. I accidently banged up her hand in the narrow hallway. I was closing door to the bathroom when she was closing door to the room on opposite sides of hallway. She wailed and cried. Apparently she had a bruisid already to the exact spot.

Anyway, kind of killed my mood. She came back in a couple of minutes and assured me that she could do massagee. Since she already had my 80 bucks. I let her. Massage was average. She provided he. Tipped 30, but only because I felt bad about hurting her. Will not repeat there.

Still trying to hook up with Teri.

I have not made the Tampa AMP rounds in a long time. Anyone know of any tall Asian girls working at the Tampa, St Pete or Orlando Amps? Not looking for midgets or tiny Vietnamese or Japanese girls. A very tall Asian AMP worker would do nicely.

Also does anyone know if more is available at Kennedy Spa. Back in the day when it was Bangkok Spa, it really lived up to it's name.

Thanks for any info.

[QUOTE=Larrycarn]They won't offer the menu if you give them money anyways. If we all stuck to our guns we could get better service. If she is just gonna give you a massage then the 70 you are paying is already too much. Reg massage any other place it's about 30-40. Eventually, she'll ask for a tip and then you can see a menu.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure what places you are visiting where you can get a massage for 30-40 unless you are talking about legitimate masseuses with absolutely no other offerings. I've never been anywhere in the Tampa Bay area or any other place outside of FL where a visit to an AMP is less than .6 to go in, and that's for just 30 minutes. Insofar as not tipping, it is certainly discretionary. However, you can assure you will never receive any additional service at a particular AMP again if you do not tip if the service for nothing more than a massage is good. The house fee in AMPs goes 100% to the owner. The girls all work for tips only. Regardless of what you may have heard they do not get a cut of the house fee. Additionally, each has to pay a certain amount each week or each month to the house for food and other services such as laundry and a clean up person if they have one. Not tipping or under tipping should be reserved for those individuals who render particularly bad service, whether that service is a massage or something extra. It can also be effective for upsellers but if upselling is a permtted policy in an AMP then there will probably not be much in the future there anyway in the way of satisfactory service.

[QUOTE=Irish Male2]I'm not sure what places you are visiting where you can get a massage for 30-40 unless you are talking about legitimate masseuses with absolutely no other offerings. I've never been anywhere in the Tampa Bay area or any other place outside of FL where a visit to an AMP is less than .6 to go in, and that's for just 30 minutes. Insofar as not tipping, it is certainly discretionary. However, you can assure you will never receive any additional service at a particular AMP again if you do not tip if the service for nothing more than a massage is good. The house fee in AMPs goes 100% to the owner. The girls all work for tips only. Regardless of what you may have heard they do not get a cut of the house fee. Additionally, each has to pay a certain amount each week or each month to the house for food and other services such as laundry and a clean up person if they have one. Not tipping or under tipping should be reserved for those individuals who render particularly bad service, whether that service is a massage or something extra. It can also be effective for upsellers but if upselling is a permtted policy in an AMP then there will probably not be much in the future there anyway in the way of satisfactory service.[/QUOTE]I was referring to legit places. If they start feeling the pinch then they have to wonder why. That's when someone can mention they would pay more if things were a little better. If the girl is just that great at giving a massage then by all means tip away. If it's a regular massage, weak table shower where you have to clean yourself then no tip. I paid the high fee for the table shower already, I'm not tipping if they aren't going providing services that warrant it.

[QUOTE=Clinton Bush]I have not made the Tampa AMP rounds in a long time. Anyone know of any tall Asian girls working at the Tampa, St Pete or Orlando Amps? Not looking for midgets or tiny Vietnamese or Japanese girls. A very tall Asian AMP worker would do nicely.

Also does anyone know if more is available at Kennedy Spa. Back in the day when it was Bangkok Spa, it really lived up to it's name.

Thanks for any info.[/QUOTE]

MiMi at Serenity was fairly tall compared to most. Decent massage and nice TS, good HE also, and roaming hands. I'll go back for more one of these days.

[QUOTE=Irish Male2]I'm not sure what places you are visiting where you can get a massage for 30-40 unless you are talking about legitimate masseuses with absolutely no other offerings. [/QUOTE]

I think that's what he meant - he referenced "reg massage" and suggested that Royboy was throwing money away tipping on a $70 fee after only getting a regular swedish-type massage.

On that subject, I enjoy a nice HE as much as anyone, but as between a great one-hour therapeutic massage and a one-hour crappy massage with the HE, I'll take the regular massage every time. The best of both worlds is hard to find, but when you do, she's a keeper.

[QUOTE=Irish Male2]I'm not sure what places you are visiting where you can get a massage for 30-40 [/QUOTE]

Buddies of Largo or the Maze at Playhouse Theater in Tampa. They will take care of his needs for 30-40. Report back and let us know how you enjoyed it.

Roy,
In case you missed CB's sarcasm, DO NOT GO TO THE PLACES HE MENTIONED. They are for GAYS.

CB et al,
If you're going to give such tongue-in-cheek sarcastic advice, then maybe you should give at least a little warning such as a smiley :). or maybe a "NOT" added at the end. The sarcasm may seem obvious to you but doesn't necessarily come across so clearly in text, at least not always when the reader is totally unfamiliar with the places you referenced. BTW, I'm only guessing at your meaning because my bro, who owns a (legitimate) business in Drew Park, has told me about another Buddies located in that area and about what the place underneath the Playhouse has become when passing by those places.

IM2,
I'm not sure how you misread Larrycarn's post but for the most part I have to go with him on this. You raise a good point that it's not quite fair that the attendant should get nothing at all for her services. So from that perspective a tip is certainly in order for even so-so service. But, from another perspective, how is that really the customer's problem? Also, you said that if a guy does completely stiff a girl who refuses to offer anything beyond a straight massage, he's unlikely to ever get anything more from her when he goes back. Huh? If nothing at all was on the menu the first time, why would anyone even want to go back? With the hope that spending even more money for another overpriced massage session and then some heavy tip on top of that might get the girl to loosen up more? I don't think so. I'd say cut your losses.

Guys go to AMPs rightly or wrongly expecting at least some sort of HE. If it turns out no HE is on the menu at all, then they've already "been taken" even without adding on any tip. If that is the case, they definitely would have been better off just going for a decent massage with a completely legit and professional provider, which normally costs just $30-40, rather than going for what turned out to be most likely at best just a so-so massage and pay a $60-80 door fee to the AMP. Should they "punish" the attendant for that by not giving anything at all for her time and effort (as little as it might have been)? Probably not. The one who should really be punished is the AMP operators themselves for deliberately misleading guys into thinking something extra would be on the menu and for paying their employees so poorly (or really not paying at all). Unfortunately, they've already taken their cut right off the top, so it doesn't really matter much to them and the poor girl winds up holding the short end of the stick (ironically for not holding the short end of the stick).

Whether you decide to show some charity to the attendant or not, the best way to deal with AMP's that don't offer any extra services is to simply never go there again (and to warn other guys about the place here, as Roy did). That way, assuming enough other guys do the same, their business will drop and they'll either be forced to change or go out of business entirely (which is what they really deserve). Unfortunately, I suspect that there will usually be enough other guys like Roy, who do not know enough to do their research ahead of time, that will provide these places a steady enough stream of fresh suckers to stay in business.

First I want to thank CB for his recomendations. When money is tight, I now have a: fall back" position.

And thanks to everyone for their feedback and good info on the tip or not tip discussion.

I am pretty much on board with not tipping if I get bad service. However, I usually tip(habit) for good service. I think I got good service from Helen. She delivered as advertised. Good technique. Soothing music. Quality oils. Attractive. However, she never made an offer or asked for tip. After dressing, I offered the tip. Of course, she accepted it and gave me a light hug.

I did try to search her on the boards. Goggled her phone and address. Only the bodyworks ad came up.

[QUOTE=Luckydman]Looks like it might have potenital when it opens.[/QUOTE]

Alice has yet to show up and open her shop. I'll try it out first chance I get.

I don’t want to get into a spitting match with anyone but I do want to clarify some things. First the title of this part of the forum is massage parlor reports and since it is on the USASexguide site it seemed fair to assume we were all talking about AMPs as opposed to legitimate masseuses. I therefore thought Larrycar was saying that a regular massage in a massage parlor could be had for 30-40, not that a legitmate massage could be had for 30-40. My apologies for misunderstanding that. However, the posts still seem to me as a casual observer to be mixing legitimate masseuse experiences with massage parlors and the door prices for the parlors are pretty well set.
Piratical, Larrycar may have referenced a “reg massage” but considering the place it was posted it would seem reg massage does not automatically refer to a legit masseuse. I do concede that a legitimate masseuse may provide a massage for roughly 40 but the chances of working that legit person into something more is not as likely as a lot of us on here would like to think. For those of us who have been successful in that quest, I can say by my experience I spent a lot more on massages to get to that point than I spent paying one house fee knowing more was available when I walked in.
CB, I’m unfamiliar with Buddies and I thought Playhouse Theater was an adult theater as opposed to a massage parlor. I concede there are a lot of places one can obtain both legit and extracurricular activities but I was under the impression, mistakenly perhaps, that we were talking about MPs. The bulk of MPs in the Bay area are AMPs and that’s what I was basing my comments on. Again, this was because of the location of the post on the site.
Chase Star, maybe we are both missing the point. The thread started out with post number 1562 by Royboy52. It appeared from his post he had made his first time visit to Asian Helen. I would not be the first person on the site to advise a relative newbie seeking advice, as Royboy52 appeared to be doing, that even highly experienced providers can be very careful and hesitant until they get to know you. They do that because they do not want to get into trouble. I don’t blame them. I don’t think I’m the first poster on here who had to make a second visit to get a HE or a third visit to get a full choice menu. Royboy52 was asking what he did wrong and I don’t think he did anything wrong. He just didn’t have provider trust on his first visit. He does not have to return if he doesn’t want to but if he does and finds more available it will be because some trust was developed by the provider.
The bottom line is RoyBoy52 went to a provider expecting a minimum HE. He paid the going rate of an AMP but didn’t get a HE. He clearly stated he was satisfied with the massage, enough to throw in another .2 tip. He then asked if he did anything wrong. I disagree, based on a fair amount of experience, with Larrycarn that “they won’t offer the menu if you give them money anyways.” They may not on that first visit but if the provider likes the hobbyist and the hobbyist likes the provider the chances are (at AMPs) that a second visit will find a little more trust. In the end however, to each their own.
If anyone wants to stop tipping they can. For an unknown newbie on his first attempt or first few attempts to follow that course he will soon have the reputation in the AMP community as someone providers should get in and get out because they are not going to make any money on him. As one who has been intimately involved at different times with providers from different AMPs I can tell you they share information about hobbyists.

[QUOTE=Irish Male2]If anyone wants to stop tipping they can. For an unknown newbie on his first attempt or first few attempts to follow that course he will soon have the reputation in the AMP community as someone providers should get in and get out because they are not going to make any money on him. As one who has been intimately involved at different times with providers from different AMPs I can tell you they share information about hobbyists.[/QUOTE]




Spot on advice!

[QUOTE=Vitamin P][QUOTE=Irish Male2]If anyone wants to stop tipping they can. For an unknown newbie on his first attempt or first few attempts to follow that course he will soon have the reputation in the AMP community as someone providers should get in and get out because they are not going to make any money on him. As one who has been intimately involved at different times with providers from different AMPs I can tell you they share information about hobbyists.[/QUOTE]
Spot on advice![/QUOTE]First of all, I should emphasize that I never said one should necessarily never tip if they only get an overpriced regular massage. In fact, I asked and answered this rhetorical question. "Should they "punish" the attendant for that by not giving anything at all for her time and effort (as little as it might have been)? Probably not. The one who should really be punished is the AMP operators themselves for deliberately misleading guys into thinking something extra would be on the menu and for paying their employees so poorly (or really not paying at all)."

What I did say was that tipping the girl heavily for what is already an overpriced regular massage without a HE (given that real professional massages without a HE from trained and licensed therapists can be had for half the price) because you HOPE that eventually on a future visit you'll be able to get an overpriced HE from her, makes absolutely no sense at all to me. Maybe it does to you guys. Okay, I understand that there are guys like Roy who are really stuck on asian providers and the AMP's are about the only place you can usually find them around here. But the price for a HJ, CBJ or, if you're lucky and willing to pay enough, FS at an AMP is already higher than other local forms of P4P. And that is before factoring in all the rip-offs (or simple straight massages) that guys like Roy wind up going through before they find an AMP attendant that provides them a decent deal or the investment that guys like you are evidently willing to pay for 1-2 or more overpriced regular massages before you get a provider to loosen up enough to provide you that overpriced HE.

My point was not so much about stiffing anybody on any tip as it was that [b]one should not even continue to provide business[/b] to establishments whose girls don't provide HE's at all or only provide HE's at a relatively high price or require you to make several visits paying for overpriced regular massages with no HE before finally allowing you to pay for an overpriced HE. The 1st time you go and get stuck w/o a HE, the modest tip you give to the attendant so that she is not left entirely holding the bag, could just be written off as part of your losses for TOFTT. But if you go keep going back to a place that didn't provide any extras (or any solid indication they ever would), then IMHO you're not just throwing away the tip you'd be expected to give at the end, you're foolishly throwing away the entire cost of the session.

Also, at worst, we weren't even really talking about habitual undertipping as you seem to suggest, but rather the occasional light tip (or for some guys no tip) when they get stuck with just a straight massage mixed in with other encounters there or elsewhere that end with more and they do tip much better. Presumably, not all their encounters, or even most, would end with so little and not deserve a decent tip or else they wouldn't keep going back to such places to try again.
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Any way, I agree about the part that providers share information about guys that walk into the MP with other providers at that MP. However, its not like you have to provide them with your real name and let them snap a picture of you before you walk out, so the shared intel would really only help them point you out to the other providers if you returned shortly to the same AMP. And even if the providers move around a bit between AMPs in the same area and you ran into one you had "stiffed" before at another AMP, how likely is it she'll really remember you out of the 100's of guys who have been in and out of those AMPs in the ensuing months?

I also agree that this would be spot on advice [b]IF[/b] there were solid indications that provider would offer more on future visits or that maybe one of the other providers in the same shop would offer more than what you got from yours. It would also be spot on advice [b]IF[/b] we were talking about a newbie doing this regularly at the same shop on multiple visits within a short time frame of each other, rather than a first-and-only-time visitor who has decided to cut his losses and never return to that particular shop. However, I'd also imagine there are many times where you walk into an unknown AMP ready to TOFTT (like Roy was doing here) and get the sense that this just ain't the place where any of the girls are ever going to offer very much beyond a very over-priced HJ if even that (or where their selection of women is so poor, that you really wouldn't be interested in it even if they did). In that case, you have no real intention of ever returning to that shop, or at least not any time soon, and it really doesn't matter all that much what your reputation from that one-time encounter is like at that one little shop.

[QUOTE=Chase Star]First of all, I should emphasize that I never said one should necessarily never tip if they only get an overpriced regular massage.[/QUOTE]


Agreed. You did not say that. Larrycarn did, as is his right. My comments were intended, whether well written or not, to suggest for a newbie seeking advice here that not tipping for satisfactory service is not the best advice. It was not intended in any way a commentary about, against, or for tipping. It was about trying to help out a newbie asking what he did wrong. I do not think he did anything wrong, including the .2 tip. Based solely on his post, I would invest in a second visit IF he thinks it's worth it and IF he likes the individual who gave him the massage.

Although most of us seek a massage with a ending that can be happy or extremely happy, it is still the RIGHT of the provider to offer whatever level of service that she is comfortable with. She is not obligated to have sex with you, she is not obligated to suck your dick, or even jerk you off so that you can cum all over her hand. She is not obligated to allow your hands to roam all over her body. Some of you may complain about getting nothing even though the provider posted an ad that could be very sexually suggestive. It`s called ADVERTISING! Her job is to get your business, and to get as much of your money as possible. It`s no different then a peep show, or some strip clubs where the women will lead you to believe that "anything is possible". Next time you go into a strip club, pay attention to all the guys who are being ignored by the girls. If they see a guy is not buying drinks for the other girls, and not getting private dances, they will ignore that guy. It`s the guy who is spending money who gets the attention, and they will keep giving you the attention as long as you are spending money on them, not because they think you are such a nice guy. And that "attention" can be anything from just talking to you and rubbing your leg, up to fucking you in a back room.

IM,
I don't think we are so far apart on whether to tip and NOT take out the relative lack of service for the high price one paid at the door on the attendant who gets to see very little if any of that, as Larry seemed to be suggesting. I also certainly agree with Speed that it is always the woman's right to decide how far she is willing to go, whether it be a dancer or an AMP attendant or anyone else, and I don't think anyone here was ever suggesting anything else. Where I think I may differ with you guys is not on whether to tip or not but whether to keep going back or to keep on tipping, if you're not getting whatever you're hoping it will get you. That is the customer's right. There's an expression "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me".

Yes, its a job or their business to make money off of guys any way they can, but some do it more honestly than others. Some do it by making the customer THINK they'll get WAY more than they actually will, but then not delivering. They operate on the principle that "there's a sucker born every minute". OTOH, there are others that actually deliver more or less just like they suggested they would. And they operate on the principle that "a satisfied customer is one that will keep coming back".

But however they do their various jobs, we also have a role to play as consumers and that is to get as much as possible or as much quality as possible for the least cost. And, since these various providers do vary in how much they'll provide, it behooves us to try to stick to the ones that actually deliver the highest quality service for the lowest possible price. And I think THAT is Larry's real point.

Most of the time, most of us around here accomplish that by trading knowledge as to which providers (AMPs, stripclub dancers, escorts, etc.) actually deliver quality or value. We then avoid the known rip-offs and seek out the ones we know are good. Occassionally, we'll take a CHANCE on a new provider or one that has not been reviewed on the hopes that we will discover a new resource with whom we can repeat (as Roy tried to do here). It can be a big risk, but if you want to try something new in this hobby that is just what you sometimes have to do.

Now if it turns out that new AMP or AMP attendant you just tried doesn't offer any extras or demands $$ for a CBJ or that dancer, who convinced you to take her in the back VIP for $150 on the vague promise of your being "fully satisfied", winds up only giving you a private lap dance and maybe a little FF, well you just have to write that off as a "gotcha moment" or a TOFTT. It just comes with the territory. If you're satisfied paying so much for so little, then by all means keep going back for more, but most of us expect and demand more for our hard-earned dollars.

Its one thing to tip the AMP attendant some token amount because she did at least give you some sort of massage and its not like the AMP itself is paying her for that. BUT Its another thing to go back and repeat with her because you expect the outcome to be any different the next time around. Sometimes it might be because the attendant just needed to feel more comfortable with you. But how long should that really take - 1 visit, 2 visits, 5? The reality is that there are plenty of places you can go where the attendant (or dancer at a strip club) will feel comfortable enough with you during your first visit. And the reality is if an attendant somehow suggests to you that more might be on the menu next time it MIGHT be true but it is AT LEAST as likely (and probably much more) that if she was really ever going to do anything with you she would have done it the first time and is really only stringing you along in the hopes that you'll have done several more sessions with her (possibly tipping more and more each time) before you finally figured out that it aint never gonna happen. Your odds are probably much better just starting from scratch with another provider, however unproven, than possibly throwing more good money after bad with a provided who has proven at least once that she won't do any extras. And even if you do eventually get that "wary" provider to open up, on your next visit (and I certainly wouldn't give her any more 2nd chances than that), you have to factor in the cost of all the sessions leading up to when she finally cracks on top of the cost of whatever sessions you do with her after that. So it can wind up being a lot more expensive way to get what you want.
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But lets look at Roy's particular experience.

He said he got a good massage for $70 for one hour. He tipped an additional $20 but that was probably to be decent about it rather than because he felt it was really worth $90 for just a regular massage. And I get the sense he would NOT go back just for the massage, because he wanted others to confirm something other than just a massage was available before he went back. Larry was definitely right in at least one thing he said. If all you're getting is a regular massage than it makes a LOT more sense to go to a regular provider (ie a legitimate LMT) where a really good professional massage costs just ~$40 (plus tip) rather than a place where you're already paying $70 before any tip for a massage from an untrained masseuse (even if she does a pretty good job for an amateur).

Roy also said he wasn't really all that horny that day so he didn't come on to her at all. Well then, I have to wonder why he chose that day to go to that provider. If all he was really looking for was a regular massage why didn't he go for a $40 massage somewhere else? And, even if he wasn't all that horny that day, if he went there with the idea that she might provide extras if not that day then on possible future visits, then the time to have probed to at least see what was possible was during that first session.

But even without Roy coming on to this gal, there should have been other clues. How was she dressed? Skirt, shorts or pants? Bare legs or panty hose that would make accessing her nether regions or even just bare skin more difficult? Was she wearing a sexy or at least somewhat sexy outfit that exposed at least some skin for him to possibly reach out and touch to start things off, or a boring full-body nurse type outfit? Since he didn't try to test her out by at least reaching back once or twice to stroke her legs or buttocks, did she at least do anything to make him think he could? Like "accidentally" let her bust or the side of her leg rub against him as she moved around the table? Was he partially clothed or "draped" or fully exposed the whole time of the massage? Did she ever "accidentally" or even purposefully touch his penis (a popular tactic of some)? When he turned over or she finished massaging his front did she even vaguely ask if there was anything/where else that he wanted her to "take care of"? And for those who favor the long drawn out campaigns, did she ever say anything to even suggest that maybe they could do something more the next time?

I'm guessing that the answers to most if not all of those questions are in the negative or Roy would have brought them up. And I'd imagine even you guys who think it would be worth going back to see a provider a second time, would at least expect some of those positive signs to be there the first time around or you wouldn't hold out any hope for the second time.

I'm sure some of you guys may still disagree but I think in Roy's particular case he's still barking up the wrong tree.

[QUOTE=Chase Star] Was she wearing a sexy or at least somewhat sexy outfit that exposed at least some skin for him to possibly reach out and touch to start things off, or a boring full-body nurse type outfit? Since he didn't try to test her out by at least reaching back once or twice to stroke her legs or buttocks, did she at least do anything to make him think he could? Like "accidentally" let her bust or the side of her leg rub against him as she moved around the table? Was he partially clothed or "draped" or fully exposed the whole time of the massage? Did she ever "accidentally" or even purposefully touch his penis (a popular tactic of some)? When he turned over or she finished massaging his front did she even vaguely ask if there was anything/where else that he wanted her to "take care of"? [/QUOTE]

I must be hard up. This paragraph made me horny. LOL

Well done, Chase Star. You are right. No signals from Helen that more may be available. She was dressed in tight capris, high heels, and tight top. Sexy dress but not accessible for touching flesh. During the massage no "accidental" touching in the private areas. I wore my underpants and she covered me with a towel. No touching with her breast. No leaning close so I could smell and sense her close to me. No sexual inuendos. Nothing.

I will concede. I took one for the team.

However, she is cute. Some may even say pretty or beautiful. Very personable. A good massage. She even applied heated towels to my aching back. I am thinking to just telephone her and ask " Is more available"? Any thoughts on that? Actually, that would probably constitute "solicitation". Right?

[QUOTE=Royboy52]Well done, Chase Star. You are right. No signals from Helen that more may be available. She was dressed in tight capris, high heels, and tight top. Sexy dress but not accessible for touching flesh. During the massage no "accidental" touching in the private areas. I wore my underpants and she covered me with a towel. No touching with her breast. No leaning close so I could smell and sense her close to me. No sexual inuendos. Nothing.

I will concede. I took one for the team.

However, she is cute. Some may even say pretty or beautiful. Very personable. A good massage. She even applied heated towels to my aching back. I am thinking to just telephone her and ask " Is more available"? Any thoughts on that? Actually, that would probably constitute "solicitation". Right?[/QUOTE]Dude; I don't know which team you play for, but you DID NOT, take one for the team!

"I wore my underpants and she covered me with a towel"...WTF!!

Who in their right mind would keep their underwear on looking for "extras"?? Did you think she would make the first move and say: "Please remove your tidy whities big boy, so I can massage everything"

Keeping your panties on signaled to her you are: a.) either a prude; b.) Uncle Leo; or c.) you have something you're hiding in your shorts you don't want touched.

Either way you weren't going to get her to do anything outside the boundaries of a legit massage.

Just my .02 cents

HD2007

Thanks Harley2007! You are right! That is exactly where I went wrong! She left me alone in the room to undress. I didn't see a towel or any clothing left by her so I left my underpants on. I should have simply taken off my underpants and waited for her to come back in. Then. Up to her. I knew if I kept pondering this an answer would come! Thanks for all the good advice on the board!

Harley,

Take it easy on my friend Roy. However he handled it, or okay in some ways mishandled it, at least HE was willing to take some chance with a completely unknown provider who for all he knew before going in MIGHT have provided extras. That chance ended up being a losing gamble, at least in terms of getting any extras. But, DESPITE THAT, he was willing to take his lumps reporting back to us the details of his encounter so that we all could learn what we could from it on whether to go with this provider ourselves.

I don't know how you define "Taking One For The Team", but in my book that is as close to being a textbook example as one can find. When was the last time you had a really disappointing encounter (which most of us have had from time to time if we've ever taken any chances on completely unknown providers) AND more importantly shared that with anyone here (after all what difference does it make to the team if you don't pass on what you found out)? I'm betting you never have. Before you do that yourself, you're not really in a position to lecture anyone else about TOFTT.

Okay, ROY made some real rookie mistakes. However, I can tell you from knowing Roy personally that he is FAR from being a complete rookie at this hobby, having logged more time playing this game in FOREIGN markets than probably 99% of you. He does seem to be a bit green at playing it closer to home, but then so are a lot of other guys who post on and/or read this forum. What that calls for is constructive criticism, not mockery, so that he can do the job better next time.

Roy,
I can sorta understand where you're coming from with the undies. You didn't know whether she was a provider that only did legit massages or was open to anything else and for all you knew it MIGHT have been a sting (though I'd think that extremely unlikely), so you didn't want to go too far too early. I'm also sure there was an element of bashfulness involved. I know I always feel more awkward when I'm completely naked and the other person is fully clothed. HOWEVER, this was the time for BOLDNESS not bashfulness. Even a legit provider has seen naked bodies before. BTW, IMHO Harley's saying you were acting prudish is being rather harsh, as I'm sure lots of people (perhaps even most) leave their undies on when going for a LEGIT massage. But Harley is absolutely right that acting like one of those people is NOT the way to signal you're looking for something EXTRA.

And lets face it, we talk about the risks we take by going to these unknown providers but at least we can sometimes find reviews on some of them. But the risks are nearly always much much greater on the provider side. Reviews of hobbyists are virtually non-existent except perhaps for the girl-to-girl talk that goes on in shops after a guy has left (or sometimes even before if the girl steps out of the room for a moment) and then is only useful if the guy comes back. So, from the provider standpoint practically every customer, except for the repeats, is an unknown risk. Even worse, the risk of arrest by undercover LEO is much greater for them than being nabbed in a reverse sting is for us. So we usually HAVE to give them at least SOME indications we might be interested in extras to get the ball moving, rather than relying on them to take the chance in blindly making the first move every time.

So whenever they ask you to "get as comfortable as you like", unless all you really ONLY want is JUST a straight massage, toss modesty to the wind and get COMPLETELY naked. While some people leave their undies on for STRAIGHT massages from legit LMT's, PLENTY of people don't and you won't be showing to any LMT anything that they haven't seen before (though you'll probably still want to get face down on the table quickly rather than standing with your hands on your rotating hips, your pelvis thrust out doing twirling windmills with your pecker:)). You probably wouldn't want to do this when the nurse at your doctor's office asks you to roll up your sleeve so she can give you a shot, but when going for a massage it wouldn't be completely inappropriate and you certainly wouldn't get arrested for indecent exposure. Besides, thats the whole reason why they offer "draping", so that they can [u]cover it back up[/u] (and move the towel around to expose various parts of your body as needed as the massage progresses). IMHE, its usually either/or and both leaving your undies on AND requesting a drape is sort of like wearing both pants and suspenders - kinda a bit over precautious.

Personally, I still think it is unlikely this provider would have done any extras EVEN IF Roy had gotten naked. Capri pants, while tight and sexy looking, are not exactly as inviting to reaching out and touching someone as say shorts or a skirt. And they are not so easily removed. Add to that the complete lack of any welcoming signals on her part, even rather safe and innocent ones, to start the "dance" where Roy could have added the next move suggests to me that this just wasn't that type of provider. Naturally, I could be completely wrong but that is just my take on it.

Lastly, regarding her calling her up. First of all, I think we can be very sure she's not a cop, so unless her phone or yours is tapped, even if you said something illegal, who's to know besides you and her. I seriously doubt you'd get arrested for it. Secondly, even if the phones were tapped, unless you're really stupid and specific, I seriously doubt you even could be charged with anything. Solicitation requires specifically offering money for sex. If you were to ask her in a vague way over the phone "Is "more" available?" and then left her to infer what "more" meant, how could anyone prove you were really talking about sex. OTOH, don't expect you'll get the answers you want. Most likely, she'll either tell you flat out no (in which case, mystery solved) or, not wanting to entrap herself either feign ignorance and ask YOU to be more specific over the phone (which gets dicey) or be vague herself in her answers with something unsatisfying like "well, we can talk about that when you get here". The time to have really asked to find out was when you were with her face-to-face the first time.

Experiences like Roy's are probably not all that uncommon, so I thought it might be helpful for some to make a list of some of the sorts of things to do and/or look out for when going to an AMP to increase your liklihood of success. I know for most of the regular posters much of this is old hat, but it could help some of the newbies lurking out there. BTW, I'm FAR from being an expert on this area, so you guys with much more experience and expertise than me feel free to weigh in with critiques and/or additions you think are needed:

[b]1) ADVANCE RESEARCH[/b] If you aren't prepared to risk TOFTT, then stick to AMPs that you've been to before and are proven or at least ones that have been reviewed. But if you feel you just HAVE to try out a new unknown place or provider, then it becomes even more critical to follow the rest of this list.

[b]2) BEFORE YOU LEAVE HOME[/b] - SHOWER and otherwise make yourself presentable. This is a little less critical if you plan to get a table shower once there, but even then you don't want to show up in sweaty smelly clothes. No provider is going to like having to rub her hands all over the body of a stinky guy or one who doesn't take care of his hygiene. Similarly, you might want to brush your teeth before going, not that your mouth is directly involved in the massage, but having bad breath certainly won't add to a favorable impression (or lead to any DFK later if that's what you're into). Personally speaking I think this is probably FAR worse of a problem on the girls part, who often have kimchee breath (at least I hope its just kimchee) and DFK is usually not on MY menu of what I want to do with any AMP girl, YMMV.

[b]3) BEFORE ENTERING[/b] Few if any AMPs or providers will actually steal from their customers, but why tempt fate? Don't bring any extra cash (or credit cards or jewelry) into the place then you need to pay the bill and what you might be prepared to tip. Also, if you bring your cellphone in with you, it might be a good idea to turn it off or put it on vibrate so if someone calls during your session it won't disrupt it (or anyone else's)

[b]4) BEEN THERE, DONE THAT[/b] -When you enter the place, if or when they ask if you've ever been there before ALWAYS say you have. If they ask for details (like which attendant you were with) be vague - say it has been a while (unless you know the place just opened) and you don't remember her name (unless of course you HAD been there recently and DO remember her name). This provides them with greater assurance, albeit still imperfect, that you aren't a cop. Of course, this ruse does not work so well if we're talking about a private practitioner rather than an actual shop.

[b]5) SEE WHAT YOU'RE GETTING BEFORE BUYING[/b] - Hopefully, you know the door rates from reading reviews or past visits, but if its one of those unreviewed situations where you're pretending to be a past customer just act like you forgot. However, it is usually $60 for a half hour or $80 for an hour around here. Perhaps the most important part about door rates or base fees is NEVER pay at the window WITHOUT seeing who will actually be giving you your massage. Some AMPs are very secretive about these things (usually because their attendants are all old or ugly). INSIST on seeing BEFORE paying any money. Sometimes they'll say the girl is busy with another customer (particularly a problem in smaller shops with limited attendants), in which case ask for HOW LONG and then decide whether you want to wait, come back or try again on another day. Figure they may underestimate how long the girl really has left with her other customer for fear of losing you and you walking out the door.

[b]6) HOW A GIRL DRESSES CAN SAY A LOT ABOUT HER[/b] - Its not just about whether the attendant is pretty enough to spark your interest. Ideally she should also be dressed in a manner to at least suggest this is going to be more than just a massage. I've seen places where the girls all wear bikini tops and shorts or skirt (w/o hose), other places where they wear lingerie, other places wear they wear some sort of attendant uniform (like a maid or nurse style dress, again w/o hose). Of course, the sexier the outfit the less likely this will be just a therapeutic massage, but it is still no guarantee that it won't be just false advertising intended to make you THINK more will be on the table. At the very least they should be showing at least a little skin that you could conceivably reach out and touch (to send your signal of interest). IMHO, any form of long pants is not a very positive sign.

[b]7) GETTING COMFORTABLE[/b] - Once you get in the room, the girl will usually ask for the house fee, assuming they haven't already taken your money at the door. Once you pay her, she'll usually ask you to get comfortable and then disappear for a while to get towels, hand the money in, get change or whatever. Sometimes this can take a few minutes. Personally, I'd find this time a bit awkward, standing around naked in a room at a strange place, wondering whether I'm gonna get the session I'm expecting or simply wondering what the heck is taking so long and whether all that time she seems to be taking getting back to me is going to count against the time I just paid for. Any way this is the part we were talking about before about being the time to toss modesty aside and get COMPLETELY naked. I can't say for anglo MPs, but I think you can be pretty sure that korean woman with the heavy accent is not undercover LEO and you're getting naked helps assure her that you aren't either

[b]8 ) TO TABLE SHOWER OR NOT TO TABLE SHOWER[/b] - for many guys this is one of the best parts of going to an AMP. Even if you could take it or leave it, it has other advantages such as a) the girl will know you're fresh and clean before having to rub her hands all over your body and b) if there is any possibility of extras being on the table she will pay at least some attention to your private area and the degree to which she does will help you assess how open she might be to extras. The possible negative of going for the table shower is that it can eat into your massage and extras time, particularly if you only went for a half hour session (and at some places more delays that eat into your time while WAITING for them in the TS room). As I said before, at the very least, you want to shower shortly before going to the AMP or other provider, so that you're fresh and clean for her AND THEN TELL HER that you have if turning down the table shower.

[b]9) VERBAL BANTER[/b] - what you say can be just as important as what you do. You may not want to come right out and say "Let's fuck" as soon as she somes into the room (then again maybe you would), but you can and should make some suggestive comments right from the beginning, like telling her not just how pretty she is, but how sexy she looks or how much you like her legs, or breast or butt. And even if your comments are completely innocuous (at least to start), you could lead in with some light conversation. I know some of these gals speak little english, but most can usually manage such hackneyed questions as "how long you in america?" "how long you here?" "You likey work here?" (okay maybe you wouldn't say it quite that way even though she might). While not necessarily directly opening up the topic of extras, at the very least it will help relax the situation for both of you, let her know you are interested in her as a person and allow her to see you as more than just a slab of meat on her massage table. Then you can work your "tits and ass compliments" in a little later as the massage gets underway. If you think time is getting short and things need to be sped up, at some point you may even want to get even more suggestive or explicit in your comments ("We sucky and fucky now?":)), but try to exercise judgment on how crass you can get based on what signals she's been putting out. In other words that last comment probably wouldn't be appropriate if she hasn't done anything to suggest she might be at all interested in that.

[b]10) REACH OUT AND TOUCH SOMEONE[/b] - Hopefully she will have already started to send out signals from the beginning (e.g. by making extra sure your johnson was particularly clean during the table shower) but even if she hasn't it is never too early to start sending out signals of your own (e.g. reaching out to stroke her leg while you're still on your belly during the table shower). If it is at a regular masseuse or private practitioner (ie where a table shower isn't even on the table) and you do this, the worst that will happen is that you'll get politely rebuffed (in which case you might want to just settle in for a regular massage) or even more firmly rebuffed if you persist. But its not like with even regular legit masseuses they probably don't get regular come-ons, particularly if they're attractive and dressed even semi-sexily, so there's really little downside for at least trying.

It can get a little tricky doing some of this while lying on your belly. For example reaching backwards and upwards to touch their breast can be especially awkward. I find it helps to try and preposition your arms, although the masseuse may require you to keep your arms up or down depending on what part of the body she's trying to work.

For the most part, you may want to keep your arms down by your sides and as out towards the edges of the table as possible. That way you might start by simply letting your fingers touch her while she bumps against the side of the table. Then you might let your hands drift off the table to touch her legs or even ass if you can reach it.

The best time to play with her ass is actually when she moves around to the head of the table so she can do your neck and shoulders. If you've moved your arms up so that they're on either side of your head., it should be really easy to just reach forward and around to feel up her butt.

One other arm position to consider is if and when she actually gets up on the table with you (note this is something most LMT's don't normally have to do). The key here is not allow your arms to get trapped. So you might want to move them up to either side of your first and then as she settles down on your butt or lower legs, you can reach back to stroke her thighs, ass or lower legs. BTW, how much she settles down on to your body is another sign to look for. Does she only kneel on the table to your side or between your legs or does she really settle on your butt so you can feel her own ass and/or crotch squish down on yours? Actually, if she's only half-sitting on the table with the upper part of one leg and asscheek on the table with the other foot still on the floor, while leaning in to work your body, that would be a good time to reach back along the inner thigh of the leg on the table and toward her crotch. Piratical, did any of this turn you on? :)

[b]11) PASSIVE MOVEMENTS YOU CAN MAKE[/b] - The last item was about things you can do to actively initiate suggestive contact. There are also some things you can do passively that will encourage suggestive contact on her part. For example, one thing that I can think of that you might want to try doing is, when lying down on the table, try leaving your dick pointing downward towards your feet and your legs partially spread so that your dick is at least partially exposed from behind. This might encourage or at least better enable her to touch it when she gets down to that part of your body. Then when she's working your legs, particularly the upper back or even inner thighs, try deliberately and obviously spreading your legs a little wider to encourage her to delve deeper. If she does delve deeper you might even also try lifting your pelvis off the table a little bit to encourage her to reach underneath and play with your dick a little bit.

[b]12) INITIATE ACTIONS EARLY IN THE SESSION[/b] - It is important to start dropping your hints (or respond to the signals she started) as early in the session as possible. If the signals are strong enough, or you know from past direct experience or reviews, that more is on the menu and you're not much interested in the massage part you might even suggest the flip and "full-body" part yourself earlier in the session or even from the first get-go. But even if you're still just feeling each other out, you need to start sending the signals early in order to allow her sufficient time to act on it and not wind up with a rushed HJ in the final 2 minutes of your hour. And that might happen anyway, if you leave it to her to be completely in charge of the pace of the session. Plus, if its a matter of popping your load "too early", they'll nearly always do more massage after that if you want so you get your full hour's worth.

[b]13) ALWAYS RESPECT HER LIMITS[/b] - this is somewhat like a dance. You probably don't want to start out by simply ramming your finger through her panties and into her pussy and saying "Let's fuck now". More likely, at least the first time you and her each drop some subtle and some not so subtle hints in a progressive manner.

See how she reacts to all of this. Does she respond with a gentle scolding, "no no no" and a finger wag? Not a great sign. Or by moving your hand back on the table? More of a mixed signal, as she just may want to finish doing the massage properly before moving on to other things. Or does she let you do what you want without any comment or maybe even smile and joke about it? Definitely much more positive.

If the latter is the case, you can try to get even more forward, like by letting your hand slip between their legs and up under the skirt to her pantied crotch (assuming she's wearing a skirt). If you discover she isn't wearing any panties, then you know you've really struck gold and you might even try for the FF, but usually they'll make you wait for later before they let you go that far (after all they don't want to give too much away for free).

OTOH, if its the former case, then its like Speedracer said. You just gotta accept your losses. And if the attendant is not making anything off of your mistake in going there, as IM said, then its not really fair to take your frustration out on her by not tipping her anything for time and effort.

[b]14) TIPPING[/b] - at some point hopefully not too close to the end of your session, the attendant will ask you to flip over and will briefly massage your front. If that's all there is, that might be all there is. But if that's all she does then its time for you to force the issue by specifically asking her if she will do anything extra for you. Now, probably begins the next stage of the dance, with each of you more or less coyly saying what you have in mind. She may do something like stroke your upper thigh and lower belly while asking if there anywhere else that you need massaged or she might even actually start stroking your dick while asking what else you want. One way to approach it would to take her hand and move it to your dick, if she was dancing around that. Or you might use hand gestures to indicate what you have in mind (like moving your hand up and down towards your mouth to indicate a bj or sliding your index finger in and out of your partially clenched other hand to indicate fucking) or you might come right and say it. The latter can be a little dicey because you never can be sure what sort of monitoring devices and possibly recorders they might have hidden about the room. You also probably don't want to say it too loud because the walls can be pretty thin in those places. After that she may nod her head or otherwise indicate her possible willingness by asking you how much you're willing to pay or again using hand gestures to indicate how much she expects for what you just asked for (e.g. 1 finger might mean $100, 1 and 5 $150 or 2 fingers $200, etc.)

I gather that $120 on top of the $80 door fee is considered a good price around here for a CBJ and FS, but that price differs from shop to shop and region to region and I've heard of some girls asking MUCH more than that at some shops around town. You should find out (if possible) what an acceptable would be for where your going and what you expect to get so that you can avoid overpaying and screwing up the market for your fellow consumers. Maybe the others can give better advice here, but I think this comes down largely to how you feel comfortable handling it

[b]15) COMING BACK[/b] -this is where I have a difference of opinion with some of the others. If you had a good session or at least you are happy with what you got and what you had to pay for it, then certainly you should consider repeating with that shop or provider. You can probably expect the same level or service (or possibly better) on your next visit. OTOH, if you did not get what you were hoping for, should you go back on the HOPE that it will be better the next time. If the provider flatly refused to do what everything you wanted her to do and gave no reason at all for you to expect that to change, then IMHO you'd be a fool to go back again and expect anything different. Sometimes the provider will tell you that the reason she wouldn't do certain things was because she didn't know you well enough and that if you come back maybe she'll do more. She MAY be telling the truth but IMHO it is just as likely if not more that is just a tactic to keep you coming back to spend more money and you'll never get much more than you already did. But even if it does take her longer to warm up to you, IMHO, she'd have to be really special to warrant that sort of investment because a) you still don't know how many visits it would take before she's ready to do what you want to do (if ever) and b) there are plenty of other providers who don't require multiple visits (and multiple session fees and tips) before they will open up to you.

[QUOTE=Chase Star]
While some people leave their undies on for STRAIGHT massages from legit LMT's, PLENTY of people don't and you won't be showing to any LMT anything that they haven't seen before (though you'll probably still want to get face down on the table quickly rather than standing with your hands on your rotating hips, your pelvis thrust out doing twirling windmills with your pecker:)).[/QUOTE]



If I was getting a straight massage from a legit LMT, I would prefer to be bare ass naked. What would make me uncomfortable is if my flag pole was at full staff which I can guarentee would happen. Although I am sure the LMT has seen it happen many times before, I would still be embarrassed. With draping, it would be easier to keep the flag pool lowered. In all reality, it`s no different than when a womans nipples are erect, just with us it`s more noticeable.

[QUOTE=Chase Star] I thought it might be helpful for some to make a list of some of the sorts of things to do and/or look out for when going to an AMP to increase your liklihood of success. [/QUOTE]Great job Chase.

This should be posted as a welcome letter to all those visiting this forum.

At least this message should be re-posted every couple of weeks for newbies.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

[QUOTE=Chase Star]
[b]2) BEFORE YOU LEAVE HOME[/b] - SHOWER and otherwise make yourself presentable. This is a little less critical if you plan to get a table shower once there, but even then you don't want to show up in sweaty smelly clothes. No provider is going to like having to rub her hands all over the body of a stinky guy or one who doesn't take care of his hygiene.

[b]5) SEE WHAT YOU'RE GETTING BEFORE BUYING[/b] - Hopefully, you know the door rates from reading reviews or past visits, but if its one of those unreviewed situations where you're pretending to be a past customer just act like you forgot. However, it is usually $60 for a half hour or $80 for an hour around here. Perhaps the most important part about door rates or base fees is NEVER pay at the window WITHOUT seeing who will actually be giving you your massage. Some AMPs are very secretive about these things (usually because their attendants are all old or ugly). INSIST on seeing BEFORE paying any money. Sometimes they'll say the girl is busy with another customer (particularly a problem in smaller shops with limited attendants), in which case ask for HOW LONG and then decide whether you want to wait, come back or try again on another day.[/QUOTE]


I have said it before, and I will say it again. ALWAYS go for the TS if it is offered. A few minutes "lost" in the shower can pay bigger dividends once back in the room and the provider knows you are clean. Even if you showered 1 hour earlier, if you are a smoker, you may stink of tobacco and not even realize it. Trust me when I say this, as a non-smoker, I can instantly smell the stench of tobacco on anyone who is close to me. If your provider is also a non-smoker, she is going to smell it also and it WILL affect your session.
#5......SEE BEFORE BUYING is where I always make a mistake. Almost always when going to a new place, I will "hope for the best" and pay up front. I would feel awkward asking for a line-up, then saying "I changed my mind, will be back another time". I look at it as if i`m saying, "no, you are too ugly, I dont want you". I wouldn`t be the first to walk away, but I would hate doing it.
As for the rest of this post by CHASE, all you newbies and those of you with limited expierence at AMPS, you need to print this post, keep a copy in your car, or wherever, and refer to it whenever you venture out for some fun. I have been going to AMPS for 30 years and I found this post to be the best ever written as far as what to do, not to do, what to expect, etc. As Karl Malden used to say, 'DON`T LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT".

That does not sound good glad I do not know what it smells like.Mouth wash is given to you and taken by your massage girl before the ts begins in all the amps up here in amp heaven Warren Ohio.

Happy Mongering .

[QUOTE=SpeedRacer29]I have said it before, and I will say it again. ALWAYS go for the TS if it is offered. ...

#5......SEE BEFORE BUYING is where I always make a mistake. ...[/QUOTE]I debated in my head which way to go on the table showers when I made my list and decided to leave a little wiggle room. I actually agree with you completely when it comes to full-hour sessions. What I had in mind when I made it optional was really just on the half hour sessions and I could have still gone either way on that.

With a full hour to work with, one should have plenty of time for the massage and the play time afterwards even if the table shower takes say 10 minutes off the beginnng of the session. And, like you said, the TS, in addition to being a pleasant experience for you, assures the attendant that you're fresh and clean and ready to get intimate with. So, in that circumstance the benefits far outweigh any possible cost.

Where I thought it could go more either way was on the shorter sessions. Between delays in your attendant coming back to your room, getting towels, getting the water running and warmed up, and god knows what else those girls sometimes do while you wind up waiting around, you can lose a fair portion of your half hour just with that, then you factor in the time it takes the girl to do a decent massage, at least 20 minutes, and the delay before she comes to the point of your visit and you may wind up with only a fairly rushed 3-5 minutes at the end for your sexual playtime. Put another way, if you do go for a half hour session AND you go for the table shower to start, then you better well be damn sure that you indicate you don't want her spending too much time on the back rub or you might never get to that HE.

Personally, while I haven't even really done that many AMP sessions in total, I've only really opted out of the TS twice. Both times were when I was going for a half hour session and I should add that both times were with a provider I had been with before. Also, as I indicated in my post, I made it a point of informing the girl at the time that I had just showered immediately before coming over (my hair was actually still damp). And since you brought it up I should also add that I'm a non-smoker. The girl didn't seem to mind too much. In fact, one time she even complimented me on how I smelled (I guess she liked the shampoo I use at home). Those are really an awful lot of caveats to consider before opting out of the TS, so perhaps I should have just said "go for the TS, no matter what".

As for the second part of your quote above, don't feel too badly. I've probably screwed up on each of these various items at one point or another in the course of my AMP education (and even continued to screw up from time to time on a couple even after I should have learned better), as I'm sure probably most of us have. That's why I don't think Roy should feel too badly about his experience. The point here is that we should all TRY to do as I say, and not as I do.

[QUOTE=Chase Star]I debated in my head which way to go on the table showers when I made my list and decided to leave a little wiggle room. I actually agree with you completely when it comes to full-hour sessions. What I had in mind when I made it optional was really just on the half hour sessions and I could have still gone either way on that.

With a full hour to work with, one should have plenty of time for the massage and the play time afterwards even if the table shower takes say 10 minutes off the beginnng of the session. And, like you said, the TS, in addition to being a pleasant experience for you, assures the attendant that you're fresh and clean and ready to get intimate with. So, in that circumstance the benefits far outweigh any possible cost.

Where I thought it could go more either way was on the shorter sessions. Between delays in your attendant coming back to your room, getting towels, getting the water running and warmed up, and god knows what else those girls sometimes do while you wind up waiting around, you can lose a fair portion of your half hour just with that, then you factor in the time it takes the girl to do a decent massage, at least 20 minutes, and the delay before she comes to the point of your visit and you may wind up with only a fairly rushed 3-5 minutes at the end for your sexual playtime. Put another way, if you do go for a half hour session AND you go for the table shower to start, then you better well be damn sure that you indicate you don't want her spending too much time on the back rub or you might never get to that HE.

Personally, while I haven't even really done that many AMP sessions in total, I've only really opted out of the TS twice. Both times were when I was going for a half hour session and I should add that both times were with a provider I had been with before. Also, as I indicated in my post, I made it a point of informing the girl at the time that I had just showered immediately before coming over (my hair was actually still damp). And since you brought it up I should also add that I'm a non-smoker. The girl didn't seem to mind too much. In fact, one time she even complimented me on how I smelled (I guess she liked the shampoo I use at home). Those are really an awful lot of caveats to consider before opting out of the TS, so perhaps I should have just said "go for the TS, no matter what".

As for the second part of your quote above, don't feel too badly. I've probably screwed up on each of these various items at one point or another in the course of my AMP education (and even continued to screw up from time to time on a couple even after I should have learned better), as I'm sure probably most of us have. That's why I don't think Roy should feel too badly about his experience. The point here is that we should all TRY to do as I say, and not as I do.[/QUOTE]

Unless she is drunk or on pills, no Korean woman is going to want to play with your junk, unless she cleans it before hand. It's not in their culture.

Tonight I went to a AMP that I had never been to before, and as such, the attendent didn`t know me from a can of paint. After the flip in the TS, my attendent proceded to wash all those hard to reach places and I indicated to her how damn good that felt. Her response was a cute giggle. Fast forward to the end of the massage which included me rubbing her legs and ass alot, and sticking her still covered tits right in my face which I proceded to caress, she asked what else I wanted. I indicated a desire to see her verbal skills. Compensation was discussed, then finally agreed to. During her verbal history lesson, I asked her if she could get me a bowl of clam chowder. She promplty served me home made clam chowder, nice & warm, just the way I like it. As she was helping me get dressed, I asked if FS was available. She indicated "yes, only for you". LOL. Of course she is saying the same thing to others who may ask. My point in all this was that during the TS, she knew I would be clean, and she was aware of how much I. enjoyed her touching my flag pole. NEVER SKIP THE TS.

P.S.
Please don`t ask me to identify this location. Apparently her desire to "go the extra mile" is the exception, not the norm. Never know who may be reading this forum, possibly even her boss. I will leave it up to her to do her own advertising. I would feel horrible if her down fall had something to do with what I said.

[QUOTE=SpeedRacer29]... My point in all this was that during the TS, she knew I would be clean, and she was aware of how much I. enjoyed her touching my flag pole. NEVER SKIP THE TS. ...[/QUOTE]I'm not saying you're wrong, however you're little anecdote really proves nothing. First of all, you don't know that she "ony went with you" because she cleaned you during the table shower because you NEVER tried her WITHOUT the table shower. For all you know, the end result might have wound up similarly without it (except in the case of the latter you would have had more time left in your half hour for either the massage or sexual play at the end). Maybe not but you can't really say without more research, trying it various ways with various providers. I'll even volunteer to help you with the research with the girls, provided we can get a government grant. :)

Secondly, there are other ways of making her aware of how much you enjoy her touching your flag pole. For example, I already mentioned past visits, body language when she massages near that region, guiding her hand there with your own and/or simply telling her that you'd like your FULL body massage now.

CB, granted I only have 2 instances to base my conclusions on, but I found a korean woman who did not appear to be drunk or on pills and whose culture did not prevent her from playing with my junk after I skipped the TS. And she did a convincing job or at least acting like she enjoyed it. Would the session have been even better if I had also gone for the TS? Perhaps, but then we'll never really know. BTW, I should add that the provider involved was a rather popular one from a formerly popular AMP. And I should also add that there are some places that don't even have the TS facilities or times due to high traffic that the one room they do have for that is occupied by another attendant and customer necessitating a few minute more wait which could eat in more seriously to your time if you've already opted only for the half hour session.

Again, I'm NOT saying you guys are absolutely wrong on any of this. As I said before when I made my original post I could have gone either way on that, but even then left in a lot of caveats. I'm only saying now that there may be SOME circumstances (rare though they may be) where the issue is at least more debatable. Perhaps, rather than debating the TS, we should be debating whether one should ever go for just the half hour session since it does make the session a lot more rushed (particularly with the TS) and you're normally only saving $20.

[/QUOTE]Okay, ROY made some real rookie mistakes. However, I can tell you from knowing Roy personally that he is FAR from being a complete rookie at this hobby, having logged more time playing this game in FOREIGN markets than probably 99% of you. He does seem to be a bit green at playing it closer to home, but then so are a lot of other guys who post on and/or read this forum. What that calls for is constructive criticism, not mockery, so that he can do the job better next time.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough Chase Star, constructive criticism is a better teacher.

HD2007

In my humble opinion, a TS is always a good idea if it is offered.

To me, it is worth the extra $20 to go for the full hour with the TS.

[QUOTE=Chase Star]I'm not saying you're wrong, however you're little anecdote really proves nothing. First of all, you don't know that she "ony went with you" because she cleaned you during the table shower because you NEVER tried her WITHOUT the table shower. For all you know, the end result might have wound up similarly without it (except in the case of the latter you would have had more time left in your half hour for either the massage or sexual play at the end). Maybe not but you can't really say without more research, trying it various ways with various providers. I'll even volunteer to help you with the research with the girls, provided we can get a government grant. :)

Secondly, there are other ways of making her aware of how much you enjoy her touching your flag pole. For example, I already mentioned past visits, body language when she massages near that region, guiding her hand there with your own and/or simply telling her that you'd like your FULL body massage now.

CB, granted I only have 2 instances to base my conclusions on, but I found a korean woman who did not appear to be drunk or on pills and whose culture did not prevent her from playing with my junk after I skipped the TS. And she did a convincing job or at least acting like she enjoyed it. Would the session have been even better if I had also gone for the TS? Perhaps, but then we'll never really know. BTW, I should add that the provider involved was a rather popular one from a formerly popular AMP. And I should also add that there are some places that don't even have the TS facilities or times due to high traffic that the one room they do have for that is occupied by another attendant and customer necessitating a few minute more wait which could eat in more seriously to your time if you've already opted only for the half hour session.

Again, I'm NOT saying you guys are absolutely wrong on any of this. As I said before when I made my original post I could have gone either way on that, but even then left in a lot of caveats. I'm only saying now that there may be SOME circumstances (rare though they may be) where the issue is at least more debatable. Perhaps, rather than debating the TS, we should be debating whether one should ever go for just the half hour session since it does make the session a lot more rushed (particularly with the TS) and you're normally only saving $20.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Harley2007]Dude; I don't know which team you play for, but you DID NOT, take one for the team!

"I wore my underpants and she covered me with a towel"...WTF!!

Who in their right mind would keep their underwear on looking for "extras"?? Did you think she would make the first move and say: "Please remove your tidy whities big boy, so I can massage everything"

Keeping your panties on signaled to her you are: a.) either a prude; b.) Uncle Leo; or c.) you have something you're hiding in your shorts you don't want touched.

Either way you weren't going to get her to do anything outside the boundaries of a legit massage.

Just my .02 cents

HD2007[/QUOTE]I was a bit harsh, Royboy. Chase Star made some goods points. I went back and read some of your posting and came to the conclusion that we all have different writing styles. This board is for exchanging information, not sarcastic criticism, which was my mood at the time.

Be safe,

HD2007

Was driving down State Road 60 in Brandon yesterday and saw that Bodysage Spa is gone. Another Chinese AMP that provides no extras goes out of business.

Maybe these places have to learn the hard way that "massagie only" isn't good for business!

[QUOTE=Seffner Monger]Was driving down State Road 60 in Brandon yesterday and saw that Bodysage Spa is gone. Another Chinese AMP that provides no extras goes out of business.

Maybe these places have to learn the hard way that "massagie only" isn't good for business![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Seffner Monger]Was driving down State Road 60 in Brandon yesterday and saw that Bodysage Spa is gone. Another Chinese AMP that provides no extras goes out of business.

Maybe these places have to learn the hard way that "massagie only" isn't good for business![/QUOTE]

Tell me I'm wrong when I say any Chinese AMPs that close will not be missed

These are general experiences based on many many discussions with friends.

AMPs staffed by Koreans or Thais are always trying to offer a great time. Other than the odd bad session from the newbie just off the boat these woman really understand the art of relaxation and know how to treat a man well. They are genuinely sweet girls who try to make the sessions fun as they are always look to develop repeat business.

Chinese or Japanese AMPs are all in it for the money. Kaching! Kaching! It is like visiting a slot machine with legs - keep putting more money in and maybe you can put something else in the slot. They are clinical and mechanical with the single mission of making as much as they can while your little head is in charge. They don't care if you ever come back as long as they leave your wallet drained. They have absolutely no thoughts towards any repeat business as they will rotate out to another city and repeat in a month or so.

I haven't seen enough Filipina or Vietnamese to fully categorize but those I have seen fell somewhere in the middle.

Your thoughts and experiences with Asian girls?

[QUOTE=Clinton Bush]Tell me I'm wrong when I say any Chinese AMPs that close will not be missed

These are general experiences based on many many discussions with friends.

AMPs staffed by Koreans or Thais are always trying to offer a great time. Other than the odd bad session from the newbie just off the boat these woman really understand the art of relaxation and know how to treat a man well. They are genuinely sweet girls who try to make the sessions fun as they are always look to develop repeat business.

Chinese or Japanese AMPs are all in it for the money. Kaching! Kaching! It is like visiting a slot machine with legs - keep putting more money in and maybe you can put something else in the slot. They are clinical and mechanical with the single mission of making as much as they can while your little head is in charge. They don't care if you ever come back as long as they leave your wallet drained. They have absolutely no thoughts towards any repeat business as they will rotate out to another city and repeat in a month or so.

I haven't seen enough Filipina or Vietnamese to fully categorize but those I have seen fell somewhere in the middle.

Your thoughts and experiences with Asian girls?[/QUOTE]


So how does one tell a Korean AMP from one that's Japanese or Chinese or Thai? I just happened to know that Bodysage was Chinese, but is there a way to tell right off the bat? Maybe all we members could combine our knowledge on a list.

[QUOTE=Seffner Monger]So how does one tell a Korean AMP from one that's Japanese or Chinese or Thai? I just happened to know that Bodysage was Chinese, but is there a way to tell right off the bat? Maybe all we members could combine our knowledge on a list.[/QUOTE]

For me, Chinese and Korean languages are very easy to tell apart. I've never come across an AMP in the US that wasn't run by one or the other. I have a much tougher time differentiating Korean and Japanese languages, but usually the girls will tell you if they're Korean, etc. I have met actual providers in AMPs that were not Korean or Chinese, occasionally running across girls with Thai, Japanese, or other backgrounds. Thai is also very different language wise from Chinese and Korean/Japanese.

You can, to some extent, go by looks. Northern Asians tend to be darker (and taller), but there are no absolutes there. Also Thais that are in the game are usually much darker since they almost always come from the NE part of Thailand that borders Laos. Most of the Thai restaurants run in our area are owned by people from Laos or Hmongs. Koreans tend to be stockier, on average, than Chinese. Chinese tend to be less obsessed with make up and vanity than Koreans. Also, if Mamasan is cooking Korean food or eating kimchee they are almost definitely Korean.

Still, the best way is to ask, although you will sometimes be lied to, especially if they don't trust you.

Or, if you get extras, they're Korean, if you go home with blue balls, they're Chinese.

[QUOTE=Clinton Bush]Tell me I'm wrong when I say any Chinese AMPs that close will not be missed

These are general experiences based on many many discussions with friends.

AMPs staffed by Koreans or Thais are always trying to offer a great time. Other than the odd bad session from the newbie just off the boat these woman really understand the art of relaxation and know how to treat a man well. They are genuinely sweet girls who try to make the sessions fun as they are always look to develop repeat business.

Chinese or Japanese AMPs are all in it for the money. Kaching! Kaching! It is like visiting a slot machine with legs - keep putting more money in and maybe you can put something else in the slot. They are clinical and mechanical with the single mission of making as much as they can while your little head is in charge. They don't care if you ever come back as long as they leave your wallet drained. They have absolutely no thoughts towards any repeat business as they will rotate out to another city and repeat in a month or so.

I haven't seen enough Filipina or Vietnamese to fully categorize but those I have seen fell somewhere in the middle.

Your thoughts and experiences with Asian girls?[/QUOTE]Vietnamese women are bitches. Just ask my wife. Lol.