Prostitution and Law Enforcement

Joe,
Thanks for defending this Ex L.E. guy. I started feeling a little sorry for him. He had three flames in a roll with no backup, no one else came to his rescue, except you a "Zen like PussyGod" 1300 posts, you make C.G. look like a comic book writer. Im sure with your travels you found the perfect "pussy".
You notice C.G didn't write for awhile, Im sure he shorted out his key board with tears, he got it that wet.

Anyway, I for one am going to quit posting about him in the new year. The only reason I started was for 3 reasons.
One, I wanted him to admit he was a cop. I just could not stand his postings in the California Pomona section, " LE is crusing, and what a fine job they are doing, driving Crown Vic, mongers should get busted etc."
Two, I wanted other readers of this Forum to know he was putting out misleading information that could get you in big trouble. For example,the one Civ2000 talks about asking a undercover women if she is a cop, she has to tell the truth.
The other one for me was the one on the "TJ cops, hard working guy, don't insult them by bribing them". If TJ if you get pulled over for running the red light, the cops tell you right there. "Do you want to settle it right here", give him $40 and you are on your way. If your drunk it will cost more. If you follow C.J. advise, you will end up in a TJ jail.
Three, I wanted him to prove he turned to the darkside, and tell us on ways to excape from being arrested in the US. CJ has refused, but at the same time puts out misleading information.
(not the one of being rude to the cop, I agree with you and CG, the cop will put your face in the street, and he should.)

I feel I have done my duty to this forum, and will continue looking for good pussy. I believe some guys look for the perfect wave. I look for the perfect pussy.
Maybe, I'll try Thailand. I want to go to that Eden Club, with yellow and green lines and pick out a girl.

CJ, I really think your a nice guy. Im still not convinced if your are or were every a cop, or what your motives are, but maybe I'll see you in TJ, one look and I'll be able to tell.

CJ, are you for real?

Another prime example of taking what another says, way out of context and designing it to fit his own agenda.

Bottom line CJ, nobody here is going to meet-up with you in TJ. I have received a huge list of PMs from people indicating they smell a rat. I know you'll call this a lie too, but hey that's okay. I have 22 Personal messages in all, most indicating something along the lines from, not being able to stand you, to they would never trust you.

Also, I have said it four times now. My conclusion in determining you post under multiple aliases to the forum is irrelevant. As stated four times, it was for my own purpose to satisfy my own curiosities. A point you seem to continue to fail to recognize! The software I used matched several of your posts as a 99% likelyhood to be written by the same person. These were lengthy posts you wrote in the past. But hey 99% leaves a chance for error, not doesn't it?

This has been the ONLY basis for your entire argument with me. And it's a weak one at that!

You need to learn how to read, I never called mongers dirty rotten people, quite the contrary. I was addressing your post, when you were angry, remember. I sort of took the liberty of filling in the blanks, when you said mongers get what they deserve for breaking the law! What an idiot and a LIAR, for trying to pin that one on me. I have written countless times about the pity I feel for a fellow monger who gets busted. You on the other hand write about how they should be embarrassed and get what they deserve!

Bottom line, nobody but a fool will ever meet with you. Myself on the other hand have met and traded info with 9 other fellow mongers. I have earned my trust, you through your frivolous ramblings have not! You never will either! Only a sucker and a fool would ever meet up in TJ with you

Geez, GT, if it's "for my own purpose to satisfy my own curiosities" then why do you keep posting it here as if it's some kind of incontrovertible fact? That's utterly disingenuous bullshit -- either prove it or shut up about it already! (And it's pretty clear by now you've no intention of proving it.) Saying, "I'm not saying publicly he's a card-carrying commie, but I've satisfied myself through my private investigation that he is absolutely the spawn of Marx" is as basic and longstanding a smear tactic as there is.

Pokey, I read all of CJ's postings in the Pomona section and also did a forum search for all the times he used the word "busted" and I do not find anywhere his saying "mongers should get busted." He did say, "It's the inexperienced or stupid mongerer that gets busted" but that's hardly the same thing.

What I do find is that [i]you[/i] posted a news article containing the name of mongers who got busted, which Jackson thankfully edited. What the heck were you thinking with that? Isn't the fear of naming names to LE part of what people are pinning on CJ?

Respectfully, your New Year's resolution seems like a good one, given that over 20% of your posts concern CJ, including the one where you asked him to not "keep tactics secret on how to avoid L.E. by just P.M some members," the posting of which is one of the things that people have taken him to task over.

As far as defending CJ (though I feel he does a fine enough job on his own) I'm simply not a fan of having people being driven from forums because they're getting attacked. That bodes badly for the community as a whole -- it's simple enough to just ignore someone. I defend people I battle with as well (you could look into my long-running disagreements with/and defense of Samus Aran in the Thailand section) as I believe a healthy online community is one that has multiple perspectives and points of view. That means I, as a reader, can pick, choose, and judge things by contrasting the various personalities and perspectives. I'm against "the party line" of information because it tends to only look at things using certain perspectives. I'm happy to have GettingTang report on his higher-end activities in Thailand as well as having Freeler report on his as-cheap-as-can-be-managed ones, I'm amused when they clash and disagree, and I sincerely wish them both the best and pray they both continue to post. Same same here.

Sorry if that's too "Zen-like" for your tastes -- as Popeye said, I am what I am, (must be all my time in the far east, LOL) and yes, I'm an active poster, but if you check my posts you'll find I do contribute specific information and concrete (albeit long-winded) field reports.

And no, I've never found the perfect pussy, which is why I keep checking out new ones... :D

Ah, well, enough -- time to go celebrate! Happy New Year and lots of orgasms to all!!

As someone who has been involved in a few board fights and has been wrongly accused of mis-doings, I can see that this CJ/GT fight is pointless. Just agree to disagree and move on

The bottom line for me has always come down to a short saying:
LTE : DTA (Listen To Everybody : Don't trust Anybody)

I've met with board members before and I've had a great time, but I take into account that I REALLY don't know these people at first and I comport myself accordingly. Any monger who puts his faith in the hands of someone he meets on-line is a fool. If CJ is running some sort of scam then anyone with common sense would not let himself fall for it. (i.e. Don't leave him alone with your car, don't go to unknown places with him, etc.). On the other hand, CJ might just be a regular guy who likes to "hunt" in packs. The fact is that we don't really know, but we should always err on the side of safety.

So, whether or not CJ is on the level shouldn't make a diference because I think we are all smart enough to avoid being taken. The point of mongering is to get laid...everything else is not worth fighting about. Personal attacks make you very defensive and ready to fight (I should know), but doing so accomplishes nothing other than taking up space that would otherwise be dedicated to our #1 purpose: getting laid.

Have a happy, safe , and fun 2004!

GT, nice try. You still have not actually posted the other names I'm supposed to be using and looks like that 1% error margin is a safe enough starting point for your backtrack but wasn't good enough to make you re-evaluate your lies before posting them in the first place was it?

So post the information GT. Let's find out once and for all who is telling the truth, we don't have to meet, we don't have to do anything other than prove or disprove your lies and then move on.

Members have a right to know who they are dealing with especially if you represent (as you have) that you are a person of integrity. You are avoiding the issue and depending on other members to urge everyone to "move on" in order to get your lying ass off the hook.

IN addition, let's hear from the people who PM'd you - sort of like a roll call thing. Don't worry, I have my keyboard convered with a piece of plastic so I won't short it out with my tears!!

Everyone who Pm's this guy, just post a note saying you PM'd him as he indicated. I'm so sure he is lying about that too, so how about it? Just post a short note to the effect that he is right and you did PM him. Nothing personal, "just the facts." GT could use a bit of support right now, so let's have it.

Just because LE doesn't tail you into Mexico is no reason to let your guard down. You need to be alert and you need to have those eyes in the back of your head clear and focused. Who's to say "Nightline" isn't down there or Channel 7 or someone like that with a briefcase camera. It's happened before. You don't want to see your face on TV.

LE doesn't give a shit what you do mongering wise (within limits previously discussed) when you leave the country.

State side you have to have your interlocks in place. So anyone thinking of going South of the border, let me clarify a few specifics that Poki stayed up all night looking for:

"TJ cops, hard working guy, don't insult them by bribing them".

Well, an ounce of common sense tells us that you WAIT FOR THEM TO OFFER TO SETTLE THE MATTER ON THE SPOT. If you shove a $20.00 in their face and you get the wrong guy he then may become upset because you are insinuating he is a crook. Even though he might be, you have to let HIM run the show, not you.

They are hard working guys. You might never get the "wrong one" but it's not worth the risk. Wait for them to offer to settle on the spot - that's the safest way to go. I guess if you can't read what's written on the line you can't see what's between the lines either.

Let's see, what's next:

" LE is crusing, and what a fine job they are doing, driving Crown Vic, mongers should get busted etc."

That was posted in the Pomona section. LE was cruising and they blanketed the area with B/W's and I am sure they had slick tops out there too. There were so many on patrol I thought to myself, "...jeez, they are doing a great job patrolling the area - lots of coverage, looking at everything etc."

As for my vehicle, I am fortunate enough to have had the opportunity to buy a brand new P71 Crown Vic. Anyone who knows anything about the P71 will know that they are configured for severe duty (taxi cab, police car, fleet etc.) and this was was not configured for patrol. Extra heavy duty this and that, nice tight ride, etc etc. I love the car. The car has no police equipment installed of any kind but police cars look very much like my P71. Another neat thing about the P71 is that people don't ride my ass on the freeway because it has a little name plate on the back that says . . . . .and hold on to your seat and don't let yourself get upset, Poki........."Police Interceptor." Needless to say I don't see much SW action with this car so I take the wife's.

Mongerers who are not careful, are stupid or mistreat the girls should (IMHO) be busted. They could get YOU busted, or maced.

By the way GT, just took a call from one of the "fools" (I hope I read your post right this time) you were referring to -RODDD- who is out of State on vacation. He's been off the board because he doesn't want WSG to appear in the history of his sisters computer.

He wished all a happy new year and is looking forward to joining Operation AlleyKat II in late January/early February. We had a great time together in December. I'll be in TJ on Thursday afternoon for some mongering at AB and in the Alley.

Since Poki has over 20% "Country John" content in his posts, I do hereby appoint him as President of the Country John Fan Club with all the rights, benefits and privileges appertaining thereto. Can I get a Second on that Joe Zop?

GT, I must have close to 50% GT content by now so I am appointing myself president of your fan club. The only thing that will get me out of your rear view mirror is Jackson cancelling my membership. So there's an angle for you.

Hope you all had a safe holiday and now it's back to work for another year.

Hopefully in the new year will see GT coming clean, his list of buddies posting that they did in fact PM him like he said so we can prove he is a liar, and get this whole thing out in the open and behind us.

In the meantime, I look forward to getting in the middle of something great in Mexico this year.

Be Safe and BE NICE
Country John

CJ, I think you ought to give it up -- there's no way that GT's ever going to apologize for a single thing, any more than you're going to admit he's right about anything. Pokey's concept (and you're a big one for clubs and naming things, aren't you CJ? I'm from the Groucho school myself) of starting the new year by putting all this out of his head is the right one; it's time to move on, and actually get back to creating worthwhile content. Forget being in GT's rearview; surely there are better ways to spend time and energy.

To that end I'd like to chime in on the whole issue of dealing with cops and greasing things along. I agree with both parties here, actually, that there are tons of cops, particularly in the third world, who expect to be paid off, and also with some of CJ's comments on method.

In many places I've been the cops don't get paid enough to really support their families (in Kenya while I was there a bunch of newspaper articles were talking about this in terms of a necessary step for reform, to lower corruption) so collecting cash for looking the other way becomes an inherent part of the process. But even in places like Mexico, Thailand, etc. where such payoffs are routine, you sure as heck don't simply bring out wads of cash and push it at someone, as that basically says you look at them without respect and as someone who can be casually bribed for just about anything, (which may be true, but still...) as opposed to them defining themselves as deciding to look the other way and you providing a thank you for that. This sounds ridiculous, but still matters -- it's the old "donation to the police benefit association" dance -- deniability is important.

There are lots of ways of instigating such a process -- in addition to waiting until it's suggested, you can politely ask whether there's anything you can do to help solve the problem or make it go away, for example, which usually leads to some kind of number or the idea of a number being tossed out. It's worth noting that once either they or you have put a number out, that's something that can be negotiated in most cases, though you want to be very careful about "winning" such a negotiation as opposed to simply getting things in a more reasonable range.

But directly challenging a cop's authority or integrity -- anywhere or any time -- is a dumb thing to do. They can either back down, which isn't at all likely, or go at you hammer and tong, and the latter is not a recipe for good mongering. Be repentant and kiss ass, if necessary, as the entire idea is to quickly get as far away from the situation as possible.

Joe Zop:

Thanks for your input and I certainly do agree that GT isn't about to admit anything. Also agree that there are lots of other productive ways to spend my time. I have a busy year business wise ahead and need to focus on that instead. I'm not sure what you mean by the naming names comment though so if you would elaborate on that I'd appreciate it. I hope you're not shooting at my bad memory.

Closing the chapter on GT is a good new years resolution along with quitiing smoking as of January 1. By now everyone knows that smoking is bad for your health so I've decicded to give it up.

Blowing smoke is another bad habit that some people should consider giving up.

By now everyone should know about GT so I agree, let's just "call it as we see it" and move on.

Your guide to bribes is an excellent summation of a lot of posts including mine. This has never actually happened to me but my perception of how to deal with it errs on the side of safety to the degree that I'll let the LEO run the show unless it turns dangerous.

Be Safe and BE NICE
Country John

After about 4 years living in Mexico I have yet to be shaken down or bothered by the policia. I think that's due to a combination of street smarts and dumb luck. Friends of mine haven't been so lucky. They've given me this advice in dealing with Mexican LE that always works for them:

1) Be polite, quiet and passive. The Mexican LE is under-paid and they like to feel important almost as much as they like getting bribes.

2) Never act like "a tough guy". Never resist or get an attitude with them. An "I know my rights," attitude will just bring you problems. You are in Mexico and you are guilty until proven innocent. (I could tell you all horror stories about "problematic" people who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and have found themselves charged with whatever unsolved crimes that can be pinned on them.)

3) Never directly offer a bribe (or mordida). This will turn a cop on the take into an honorable police officer. As Joe said, offer it to them without actually offering it to them. For example: "Gee, I don't really have time to go to the station, is there any way I can pay the fine right here?"

Mexico is not the place to demand your rights unless you want a shit-load of problems. Be respectful and smart and you will stay out of problems. Really, it's a pretty shitty way to run a country, but its definitely possible to manipulate the system to get off the hook for the occasional violation. However, just as in the USA the best way to deal with LE is to NOT have to deal with them. Try to stay on the level and within the laws of the land whenever possible.

Number 1: The thing that I've always felt was weird was cops A) arresting hookers and B) the men looking for them but letting C) the drug dealers just do their thing. I've seen it myself and it's just a little weird to me. I mean if I'm getting arrested for trying to get some pussy then how the fuck are you going to let the next man get away with trying to get some drugs. It's easier for me to get some crack (cocaine that is) than to get some crack (ass, pussy, head etc.). Uhhh, I see a contradiction!!

Number 2: I mean the one thing that I do see is that American society as a whole basically wants everybody to get married and start a family. That's the goal. To men that want to enjoy casual sex well you're just shit out of luck. It's a blantant form of sexual control by a feminist oriented society that everybody is in on: 1) Make prostitution illegal 2) Arrest men who seek prostitutes 3) Arrest prostitutes 4) Prosecute men severely with divorce when they do marry a woman.

Well I think I can escape scenario Number 1 because I might seem like a punk but I'm going to give up SW because it's just not worth it. I've read earlier posts about how it is a crime so if you commit it you deserve to get arrested for it. I think the problem with that is that the punishment for the crime is tipped way in the favor of the law and the money part is tipped heavily in the favor of the SW. I mean losing your car over roughly 15-20 minutes of sex is just plain crazy. And it's rushed sex. I mean in the American Woman section I regularly diss American Women but it's American Men who are the true psychos. The American Woman is a product created and patented by the American Man.

I also wanted to add another reason they cannot legalize prostitution is because they know that the restaurant industry would collapse.

Although your analogy is a bit rough around the edges, I tend to agree with your assessment. In the USA women have most of us men pussy whipped. It is almost a crime to be a "male" in this country.

If we ever get a group together, with a lot of money, and willing to be a bit embarrassed we could most likely, easily put an end to prostitution being illegal. The constitution on its most principal values, would never uphold making sex between two consenting adults in any form illegal. Consenting is the key word. If we are to follow the logic the the law uses regarding prostitution, then we should prosecute any aspect where any monetary value is traded for sex.

GETTINGTANG~!

Now here is a novel idea for you. Next time you P4P, tell the women you are going to give her something (whatever it might be does not matter) brand new you just purchased worth the value of what she charges. Tell her she can have the receipt for that item where it was recently purchased with cash. Tell her at the end of the date, she is welcome to return it to the purchase store for a cash refund, or keep the gift. Is this prostitution? LE would say yes, if it is, then maybe I should call local LE a report all the women living with men where the women does not work and fully support herself. I could use all the things this woman gets from her male counter part as a monetary gain.

If you really, really break down the hundreds of scenarios where prostitution might be taking place, this would place soooooooooo many gray areas on this bogus law. It would never hold up if courts actually allowed the millions of comparisons to be shown in a court of law.

Bottom line, LE has no business in peoples sex life's. As long as both parties are consenting, no minors are involved, no other forms of illegal activities are taking place, etc, etc. The sniffing nose should stop there!

GETTINGTANG~!

I once dated a girl for 9 months. She was a wild girl 23 yo, she was hot! On our fourth date at dinner after a few drinks, she mentioned she needed a sex partner. She was attending university and was not ready for a long term relationship. This was during spring break and I was about to embark on a business trip. I had an extra plane ticket. She offered me "the best blowjob any girl on the universe has ever given," for the free ticket. Wow! The relationship lasted for 9 months, totally about sex. The understanding without saying was, I treated her to nice things and she treated me to continuos sexual episodes! It was great! Best sex of my life! I never once thought of it as prostitution, neither did she! But in fact it was! I ask you, is she any different then about half the women in the world? NOT!

GETTINGTANG~!

I was once engaged to a girl who would tell me I could have a blowjob, for this, or for that! We had great sex, but she was not really into oral sex. So whenever I craved it, I usually had to give something up for it. Sort of a trade off. She was my soon to be wife, but was she also a prostitute? If I called LE and explained this to them, technically they probably could have charged us both with solicitation. This is not the real world! If the courts would actually allow a good attorney to argue these points, every case should be and rightfully so, tossed out! AND NOW IN MOST STATES, THEY WILL TAKE YOUR DAMN CAR FOR THIS! NUTS!


GETTINGTANG~!

SAN DIEGO -- Eighteen men were arrested in San Diego for soliciting sex acts from undercover police officers posing as prostitutes, police said Tuesday.

The sting took place Monday as part of an effort by the San Diego Police Department to reduce the impact of street prostitution in the city, police Chief William Lansdowne said in a statement.

Seventeen vehicles were seized during the operation. The suspects were booked into San Diego County Jail.

The vice unit plans to conduct similar sweeps throughout the city in the future, Lansdowne said.

These autos will be sold at auction and all proceeds go to San Diego county law enforcement.