"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=LoriTruck;4074702]I'm getting to the point in my life where I want to treat myself for all the hard work and bs I've had to put up with up to this point. Just out of curiosity, has anyone had any success with a sugar baby that was open to bringing another sugar baby in the mix for possible drinks and fun? Is the SB that posts Men / Women in their "Lookng for" really open to another female soaking up all the attention from her? I'm looking to string 2 maybe 3 SB's together for an unforgettable experience. What's the secret sauce in approaching this situation?[/QUOTE]Yes. A couple of times actually. One duo became friends and will blow my phone up periodically, even recently, even tho I haven't seen them individually in over a year. In my experience, one of them is always a 30-40 something married lady, from SA, playing on the sly. So one is on the promiscuous side anyway. I've found that taking them on a boat, midweek, to a quiet cove, to be 100% successful. Champagne with fruit and berries and other drinks may be the trick as well!? The times I've arranged meetings at restaurants or at my place, the younger / baby will often get cold feet. I don't recall if any of these ladies had men / women in their "looking for" section. These take hell of a lot of work, a lot of pic swapping, and several iterations of 1-1 time, and maybe a no show before they actually commit. Whatever you do, I don't recommend springing it on one or both of them. Good luck!! They are fun as hell, and I am not a big fan of 3-sum.

[QUOTE=LoriTruck;4074702]I'm getting to the point in my life where I want to treat myself for all the hard work and bs I've had to put up with up to this point. Just out of curiosity, has anyone had any success with a sugar baby that was open to bringing another sugar baby in the mix for possible drinks and fun? Is the SB that posts Men / Women in their "Lookng for" really open to another female soaking up all the attention from her? I'm looking to string 2 maybe 3 SB's together for an unforgettable experience. What's the secret sauce in approaching this situation?[/QUOTE]You should look way back in the thread, bowl buddy BikeRider, I believe, set up a profile to snag threesomes some time ago. He was actually deluged w / messaging. I followed up w / him sometime after, evidently none of them bore fruit, for logistical reasons.

[QUOTE=HawkJock;4074166]For those that state "platonic" I tend to press the issue shortly after moving to text. I usually tell them I'm going to grab a nap and napping is better when done together, or better after being "tucked" in appropriately. Or I tell them I'm jumping in the shower and I could use a hand for those hard to reach areas. Those that are truly platonic (truly virgins) will let you know quickly that they are not comfortable with such talk. I let them go before wasting anymore time or money. Those that are pros, semi-pros, or UTR (none of which I am looking for) will be quick to send pics and talk price, and I let them go. Those that are in it for what I am looking for (young energetic girl looking for adventure and maturity that she can't get on L / are swipe apps) will respond with "ummmm" or "I like the way you think" or "that sounds fun" or "I think we are going to hit it off and I look forward to joining you eventually. ".[/QUOTE]Thank you so much for these hints. I have also started to look more closely at profiles that include platonic, wondering if they can be turned. Always, doing something that isn't what everyone else is doing is a good strategy to get a better experience. For example, when SA had lifestyle buttons, I had a search that was only the top level, figuring many guys would stay away. Not saying it worked, but.

I tried to renew my SA subscription on line today. I chose the 30 day subscription option. But when I got to the end it basically says by the way this is going to be an automatically renewed subscription after thirty days now that we have your cc number. There is no option to opt out. I have always done my renewals by fax and after 30 days it ran out. Has this always been the case? I have no intention of signing up for an auto renewal.

[QUOTE=RappaHannock;4074858]I tried to renew my SA subscription on line today. I chose the 30 day subscription option. But when I got to the end it basically says by the way this is going to be an automatically renewed subscription after thirty days now that we have your cc number. There is no option to opt out. I have always done my renewals by fax and after 30 days it ran out. Has this always been the case? I have no intention of signing up for an auto renewal.[/QUOTE]After you sign back up, just go into your settings and cancel the auto-renewal.

[QUOTE=RappaHannock;4074858]I tried to renew my SA subscription on line today. I chose the 30 day subscription option. But when I got to the end it basically says by the way this is going to be an automatically renewed subscription after thirty days now that we have your cc number. There is no option to opt out. I have always done my renewals by fax and after 30 days it ran out. Has this always been the case? I have no intention of signing up for an auto renewal.[/QUOTE]It allows you to cancel auto renew at anytime by clicking on payments under your settings menu. I was off it for a month and it indeed did not auto renew.

[QUOTE=JustLonely;4074924]It allows you to cancel auto renew at anytime by clicking on payments under your settings menu. I was off it for a month and it indeed did not auto renew.[/QUOTE]Ok great. Thanks.

[QUOTE=ErnestLl;4074102]I can't tell you the number of 20 somethings who are quite happy to tell me they are comfortable getting naked with a man 2 x their age become men under 30 are clueless losers. USE THIS TO YOUR ADVANTAGE. [/QUOTE]College aged girls have had to deal with this Generation-Z syndrome where the guys they know fall into specific buckets -- they guys they meet either grew up with "special snowflake syndrome", or they are an outright drug-addled moron. Add to that the "gender confusion" movement, where young males are penalized by the media for behaving like men or any other display of true masculinity. Movies, social media, even modern video games, more and more, are starting to portray women as not only the intellectually superior gender, but also the PHYSICALLY superior gender (I'll come back to this). Producers of this media are increasingly gay males (who could give a fuck one way or the other as long as there is enough shock value to sell tickets), so they create this fictitious image of bad-ass women, who go around karate-kicking and back-flipping their way out of fights with men carrying assault rifles.

While that kind of shit might strike a chord with a 12 year old girl, an 18-22 whose hormones and sex drive are starting to really kick in has usually had enough. I said I would come back to the statement above. While all of that sci-fi media portrayal shit is great for kids, these girls (who, as we know, DO mature emotionally faster than males) get to a point where the fiction isn't good enough anymore and they want something real. I hate to sound like Charlie Sheen here (LOL). But honestly I think the Gen-X male is "winning" from all of this if they possess the right characteristics.

Not all girls are born SB material. Mileage may vary, but my own observation has been that most SBs have daddy issues of one variety or another. The reason this lifestyle is becoming more prevalent is because the trend seems to be that the population of girls with daddy issues is ever-increasing.

Why is that? Not rocket science. Most of this can be traced back to the Equal Rights Amendment of the 70's. Lots of women back then opposed the movement, because they knew it would disrupt the family unit, resulting in a disruption of society that would ultimately break down the family unit in a way that America would never be able to adequately cope with. But, the ones in favor of the movement ultimately won out, saying society would adjust.

Both sides were right. America adapted to this by accepting the dissolution of traditional family roles as the norm. Fast forward and what is the net effect? More career women that have babies and raise them alone because they can, many of which have broken or non-existent relationships with their father. This creates fertile ground for the birth of enormous amounts of sugar babies, and there is no sign of it letting up any time soon (how could we reverse it, remove women's right to vote or work? LOL). Fundamentally, the girls born out of these conditions will always have a craving for older men. This makes the score -10 points for guys their age, and +10 for guys old enough to represent the father figure they long for. They certainly do sometimes struggle with issues of peer pressure in the college aged range, that makes them want to keep their secret craving private, but once they leave the "school yard gossip" scene and are fully immersed in adulthood (approx 25 years old and up), they no longer even care about this.

So basically, the next time you unload your wad deep into some college girl, take a moment to step back and thank the proponents of the ERA movement of the 70's. I know I can say without question, their actions, more than anyone, have blessed my life with unlimited access to prime quality pussy.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;4074974]College aged girls have had to deal with this Generation-Z syndrome where the guys they know fall into specific buckets -- they guys they meet either grew up with "special snowflake syndrome", or they are an outright drug-addled moron. Add to that the "gender confusion" movement, where young males are penalized by the media for behaving like men or any other display of true masculinity. Movies, social media, even modern video games, more and more, are starting to portray women as not only the intellectually superior gender, but also the PHYSICALLY superior gender (I'll come back to this). Producers of this media are increasingly gay males (who could give a fuck one way or the other as long as there is enough shock value to sell tickets), so they create this fictitious image of bad-ass women, who go around karate-kicking and back-flipping their way out of fights with men carrying assault rifles.

While that kind of shit might strike a chord with a 12 year old girl, an 18-22 whose hormones and sex drive are starting to really kick in has usually had enough. I said I would come back to the statement above. While all of that sci-fi media portrayal shit is great for kids, these girls (who, as we know, DO mature emotionally faster than males) get to a point where the fiction isn't good enough anymore and they want something real. I hate to sound like Charlie Sheen here (LOL). But honestly I think the Gen-X male is "winning" from all of this if they possess the right characteristics.

Not all girls are born SB material. Mileage may vary, but my own observation has been that most SBs have daddy issues of one variety or another. The reason this lifestyle is becoming more prevalent is because the trend seems to be that the population of girls with daddy issues is ever-increasing.

Why is that? Not rocket science. Most of this can be traced back to the Equal Rights Amendment of the 70's. Lots of women back then opposed the movement, because they knew it would disrupt the family unit, resulting in a disruption of society that would ultimately break down the family unit in a way that America would never be able to adequately cope with. But, the ones in favor of the movement ultimately won out, saying society would adjust.

Both sides were right. America adapted to this by accepting the dissolution of traditional family roles as the norm. Fast forward and what is the net effect? More career women that have babies and raise them alone because they can, many of which have broken or non-existent relationships with their father. This creates fertile ground for the birth of enormous amounts of sugar babies, and there is no sign of it letting up any time soon (how could we reverse it, remove women's right to vote or work? LOL). Fundamentally, the girls born out of these conditions will always have a craving for older men. This makes the score -10 points for guys their age, and +10 for guys old enough to represent the father figure they long for. They certainly do sometimes struggle with issues of peer pressure in the college aged range, that makes them want to keep their secret craving private, but once they leave the "school yard gossip" scene and are fully immersed in adulthood (approx 25 years old and up), they no longer even care about this.

So basically, the next time you unload your wad deep into some college girl, take a moment to step back and thank the proponents of the ERA movement of the 70's. I know I can say without question, their actions, more than anyone, have blessed my life with unlimited access to prime quality pussy.[/QUOTE]All the above is right!! Travel to Colombia, Panama, Czech, Hungary, Philippines, or any number of countries. The whole SD / SB, there, isn't stigmatized like it is here. It is the norm. Tho, I do contend the whole father figure aspect. I've nailed many upstanding ladies from great families. They are done with dudes their age! Dudes don't know how to open a door, or make reservations, or make plans and tell a lady "I just bought us tickets" for a particular show. The demise of the 20-30 y/o male population has been amazing to my adventures!!

[QUOTE=Walruscl;4074608]Yes, loving the FWB + dash of romance dynamic with my SB. Just had a romantic pre-Christmas date: fondue in front of a roaring fireplace, champagne, Christmas music in the background, and some carefully-chosen gifts for her under the tree. Followed by a Christmas movie then an overnight for cuddles / playtime, with a leisurely morning before seeing her off until next week's date.[/QUOTE]I did an unusual move and used my DSLR to get a picture of my SB that night. We were sitting on the floor using the coffee table to eat so that we could be next to the fireplace. So my view during dinner was of her 3' away, warmly side-lit by the fire, with the Christmas tree behind her as a perfect framing / backdrop. Took a couple of tries in LightRoom to balance the warmth of the firelight versus making her skin tone look accurate / flattering, but I ended up with a really nice memento. She was very appreciative when I texted her the results.

So now here I am again, with a gorgeous picture that I can't show anyone. Even though I trust some of the senior members here, I simply won't break my rule of not putting any SB pics out electronically. Even these past few posts were a bit of oversharing, but it was quite the high so it was difficult to resist.

Anyway, a bit of a rhetorical post, but it was on my mind.

[QUOTE=ErnestLl;4074102]I can't tell you the number of 20 somethings who are quite happy to tell me they are comfortable getting naked with a man 2 x their age because men under 30 are clueless losers.[/QUOTE]I am currently at a factor of 3.5 times the age of some of the newer SB's. If I lived in Nevada it would be 4 x their age. Forget about the clueless losers (certainly a factor). A certain type of young girl is not going to see a 25-30 year old male as a Daddy figure, but just as a somewhat older guy.

You will find that the older you get the easier it will be to attract these girls assuming you have the prerequisite characteristics they are looking for. Take care of your looks and be in control of basically everything. Reward them when they do what they are told and punish them when they don't. The best girls will always be good, so you will have to punish them on a regular basis (mostly in the FC) just to satisfy their need to be subservient and to get the praise they so desperately crave.

This may be physical or emotional (and I am not talking about pimp style beatings here). It's about becoming a loving Dom.

While our culture of absentee fathers is a factor, look for the girls that grew up with just a bad father, the type that doesn't really understand or support them (even though they are physically present). They have been trying to get their attention for years. Many of the girls that have had absentee fathers have already created the coping skills needed to help counter the loss of guidance & approval. But the ones with the present but negligent fathers never have and they are still vainly trying to get that support.

When you have achieved what is know as "transference", you will have everything you are looking for (if what you crave is a good little girl that wants to please her Daddy). For me this is a lifestyle. I only live in the DD/lg world. While this may not be for everyone, I believe that certain aspects of it are what most of the guys on this thread are looking for.

Do I fuck UTR's and just regular vanilla type girls? Well yes I do, (especially if they are curious about the lifestyle). But the best sex and most satisfying relationships will always keep me searching for the next "new little girl".

Seems my poor judgement from a few weeks ago in agreeing to hook up with the rather desperate 30-something has resolved itself. She in this weird mode this week of complaining that her bank balance was negative, when could we meet, etc. When I told her that Saturday night (tonight) was the best I could do (and at that point I was mostly agreeing out of charity-not a good dynamic), I outlined a pretty reasonable, typical SD / SB date. She responded by asking for more since it would be a longer date, and I held my line on the financials. So she then said instead we could keep it down to 1-1/2 hours. At that point I stopped, and later that night when I knew she'd be asleep I texted her that I was sorry but it wasn't working for me.

The weird thing was while this was happening, she was showing that she hadn't been online for a couple of days on SA. You'd think with that level of desperation she'd be digging like crazy. But three days later no response, and in the interim I unfavorited her and deleted our message trail. An SA search that normally would have her appear in the list now shows nothing, even back two weeks. Either I've been blocked or she gave up. Fine with me either way.

The GPS girl I hit does show up in that search, and she hasn't been online for three days. I guess the guys aren't beating down her door to pay her non-negotiable allowance after all. It just kills me that these girls don't understand the bird-in-the-hand rule. I would have been ok with 3, but only as an experiment, as even a reduced-rate GPS girl is probably not going to be a bucket-list experience. But she wouldn't budge, so she's got $0 coming in. And she hasn't tried to contact me at all, which is fine as I'd prefer to avoid the hassle of explicitly cutting them off.

I'm learning to read my own reactions to these situations. Both of these had me stressed out while I was working them, and once I cut them off I felt a huge relief. Which is how I know I did the right thing.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;4075572]I am currently at a factor of 3.5 times the age of some of the newer SB's. If I lived in Nevada it would be 4 x their age. Forget about the clueless losers (certainly a factor). A certain type of young girl is not going to see a 25-30 year old male as a Daddy figure, but just as a somewhat older guy.

While our culture of absentee fathers is a factor, look for the girls that grew up with just a bad father, the type that doesn't really understand or support them (even though they are physically present). They have been trying to get their attention for years. Many of the girls that have had absentee fathers have already created the coping skills needed to help counter the loss of guidance & approval. But the ones with the present but negligent fathers never have and they are still vainly trying to get that support.

When you have achieved what is know as "transference", you will have everything you are looking for (if what you crave is a good little girl that wants to please her Daddy). For me this is a lifestyle. I only live in the DD/lg world. While this may not be for everyone, I believe that certain aspects of it are what most of the guys on this thread are looking for..[/QUOTE]I edited your post for brevity. Are there tells you can use to identify this in POTs? Either in their profile, or a question you can ask in your early messaging on SA?

[QUOTE=JZLizard;4074974]College aged girls have had to deal with this Generation-Z syndrome where the guys they know fall into specific buckets -- they guys they meet either grew up with "special snowflake syndrome", or they are an outright drug-addled moron. Add to that the "gender confusion" movement, where young males are penalized by the media for behaving like men or any other display of true masculinity. Movies, social media, even modern video games, more and more, are starting to portray women as not only the intellectually superior gender, but also the PHYSICALLY superior gender (I'll come back to this). Producers of this media are increasingly gay males (who could give a fuck one way or the other as long as there is enough shock value to sell tickets), so they create this fictitious image of bad-ass women, who go around karate-kicking and back-flipping their way out of fights with men carrying assault rifles.

While that kind of shit might strike a chord with a 12 year old girl, an 18-22 whose hormones and sex drive are starting to really kick in has usually had enough. I said I would come back to the statement above. While all of that sci-fi media portrayal shit is great for kids, these girls (who, as we know, DO mature emotionally faster than males) get to a point where the fiction isn't good enough anymore and they want something real. I hate to sound like Charlie Sheen here (LOL). But honestly I think the Gen-X male is "winning" from all of this if they possess the right characteristics.


So basically, the next time you unload your wad deep into some college girl, take a moment to step back and thank the proponents of the ERA movement of the 70's. I know I can say without question, their actions, more than anyone, have blessed my life with unlimited access to prime quality pussy.[/QUOTE]The attempts by popular culture an the media to make Toxic Masculinity the Scourge of the source of all planetary ills is certainly clearing the field of age appropriate competitors. Another reason SBs turn to the lifestyle, they want to deal with a real man. And its not just the young ones. I had a 40 yo MILF mom of two, who managed a store for a national brand tell me. "All day long, I'm mom or the boss and everyone is always after me to do something or decide something. Sometimes I just want to let go and let someone else decide things for me and just let myself go and escape responsibility by being someone's fuck toy".

Whether its Daddy issues or submissive nature or desire to experiment, POTs pretty much pre-screen themselves as open to hair pulling, spanking, dirty talk and much of kinkdom.

And yes. So many have Daddy issues -- loser or absent father, adopted girls, products of ugly divorce.

And let's not forget to thank Bill Clinton for telling young women every where its cool to blow the older more powerful successful guys. Just don't let the world find out. Google Dennis Miller bit on the Lewinsky scandal and its easily adaptable to charming an on the fence SB. Basically -- its not often you get the chance to lodge in your noggin the johnson of some guy who can open doors to a world you never imagined experiencing. So I say go for it.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;4075629]I edited your post for brevity. Are there tells you can use to identify this in POTs? Either in their profile, or a question you can ask in your early messaging on SA?[/QUOTE]Your profile should definitely lean towards an easy identification that you are dominant and prefer submissive, but without ever using those words. Half the girls that respond will be doing so just for that reason. Thats probably an easy place to start. I have found there is never a way to shortcut the interviewing process. Thats when the real truth about who they really are will be revealed. Generally speaking, stay away from the ones the talk about how kinky they are. Thats just a way to jack up the allowance. The ones that use words like shy or quiet. The ones with short profiles. The ones that just have normal pictures. They are not really going to flaunt it. The ones saying they are looking for new experiences, a real connection, treated like a princess, use words like baby girl. Its far too nuanced to write a book on it.

Your first trip to the FC will tell you all you need to know. Thats when you just put it all out there. And they will either be receptive or they won't.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;4075958]Your profile should definitely lean towards an easy identification that you are dominant and prefer submissive, but without ever using those words. Half the girls that respond will be doing so just for that reason. Thats probably an easy place to start. I have found there is never a way to shortcut the interviewing process. Thats when the real truth about who they really are will be revealed. Generally speaking, stay away from the ones the talk about how kinky they are. Thats just a way to jack up the allowance. The ones that use words like shy or quiet. The ones with short profiles. The ones that just have normal pictures. They are not really going to flaunt it. The ones saying they are looking for new experiences, a real connection, treated like a princess, use words like baby girl. Its far too nuanced to write a book on it.

Your first trip to the FC will tell you all you need to know. Thats when you just put it all out there. And they will either be receptive or they won't.[/QUOTE]Got it. That is exactly what I wanted to know. My profile is a little more 'nice guy' than yours I'd wager, but I can definitely identify those other items. I also don't have my profile available to search, too risky. I think submissive girls are so common on the site, I always inquire at some point, especially the M&G, if 'you are the type of woman who likes her man to be in the lead'. It implies what I want but isn't so blatant that a non-sub would be offended. Often I get the reply 'oh, yes, I'm submissive'.

I learned a new term recently. ABG is asian baby girl, they're subs.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;4076548]Got it. That is exactly what I wanted to know. My profile is a little more 'nice guy' than yours I'd wager, but I can definitely identify those other items. I also don't have my profile available to search, too risky. I think submissive girls are so common on the site, I always inquire at some point, especially the M&G, if 'you are the type of woman who likes her man to be in the lead'. It implies what I want but isn't so blatant that a non-sub would be offended. Often I get the reply 'oh, yes, I'm submissive'.

I learned a new term recently. ABG is asian baby girl, they're subs.[/QUOTE]Princesses and baby girls. Gotta love "em.

To curry favor w / a POT. Be sure to send a 'Christmas card' to any girl you've got any interest in or had a good time with. You can dig up Christmas scenes that are animated gifs on the web, they go fine via text.

So I am currently on some civvy sites. I am trying to date. I also hobby until then. I just found out that three of my former SB are now in relationships. I wonder, how the hell do SB get into relationships and I am still singel LOL. I wonder if their SO would still date them if they found out their GF used to be escorts. LOL.

I am relatively new to SA though I have had some limited success there.

Several things I have been thinking about and I am interested in others opinions or experiences based on what you have observed. So what are your thoughts on when a person favorites you? I am talking about local not someone from another country. I assume it means that person has read your profile and they have some interest in at least chatting. But then I think, why didn't they just message you and say hello, check out my profile and message me back if you want to chat. Just curious as to your thoughts on what message is it they are trying to convey.

If you favorite someone, what message are you trying to convey to that person?

I have chosen not to complete anything in regard to my annual income or net worth. The main reason is while I understand that is an important part of the deal, I don't really want that to be the main reason someone reaches out to you or responds to you. Interested to know if most people complete that, if so how honest about it are you and how important do you think it is as part of your profile.

I don't have any pictures posted on my profile because of discretion. Absolutely could not have pictures of my face floating around on line. I know that when I am looking at SA, I really don't pay much attention to profiles with no picture and I am wondering if that is the same situation with SB's. Just curious about peoples thoughts and opinions.

Hopefully this post will spark some good conversation that is helpful and informative for all.

[QUOTE=RappaHannock;4079211]I am relatively new to SA though I have had some limited success there.

Several things I have been thinking about and I am interested in others opinions or experiences based on what you have observed. So what are your thoughts on when a person favorites you? I am talking about local not someone from another country. I assume it means that person has read your profile and they have some interest in at least chatting. But then I think, why didn't they just message you and say hello, check out my profile and message me back if you want to chat. Just curious as to your thoughts on what message is it they are trying to convey.

If you favorite someone, what message are you trying to convey to that person?

I have chosen not to complete anything in regard to my annual income or net worth. The main reason is while I understand that is an important part of the deal, I don't really want that to be the main reason someone reaches out to you or responds to you. Interested to know if most people complete that, if so how honest about it are you and how important do you think it is as part of your profile.

I don't have any pictures posted on my profile because of discretion. Absolutely could not have pictures of my face floating around on line. I know that when I am looking at SA, I really don't pay much attention to profiles with no picture and I am wondering if that is the same situation with SB's. Just curious about peoples thoughts and opinions.

Hopefully this post will spark some good conversation that is helpful and informative for all.[/QUOTE]Most of the local ones that favorite me have NOT read my profile. Most are UTR or escorts. Some are brand new and just click on those hearts for fun I think. I can't remember ever having one that favorited me ever lead to a M&G. I have seen a few that I have messaged and we have started a conversation that later favorite me. I assume that is because they have a lot of messages and need a way to track the ones they like the most.

I rarely favorite anyone as I prefer to just go ahead and message them. My best luck in December has been with women who have age range up to 60 listed as I am showing 57 on my current profile. I can pass for younger than that as I stay in shape and barely have any gray in my blonde hair. No public pic and the private one is long distance. They only get closeup if we are texting and headed to a meet up.

[QUOTE=JustLonely;4079262]Most of the local ones that favorite me have NOT read my profile. Most are UTR or escorts. Some are brand new and just click on those hearts for fun I think. I can't remember ever having one that favorited me ever lead to a M&G. I have seen a few that I have messaged and we have started a conversation that later favorite me. I assume that is because they have a lot of messages and need a way to track the ones they like the most.

I rarely favorite anyone as I prefer to just go ahead and message them. My best luck in December has been with women who have age range up to 60 listed as I am showing 57 on my current profile. I can pass for younger than that as I stay in shape and barely have any gray in my blonde hair. No public pic and the private one is long distance. They only get closeup if we are texting and headed to a meet up.[/QUOTE]I'm about to flake / blow-off a M&G that only got to the point of semi-arranged (that I only had about 10% of her focus was one clue, hence "semi- The bigger clue and the commonality is that neither POT wanted access to my private photos, which have more informative face pics. So they want to meet without actually seeing me (my public one has my face obscured due to the composition of the shot)? Big red flag, one that's about to be a big filter for me.

You are asking some good questions. Let me add my thoughts here. I have been using SA for just over a year (on and off). During that period, I have met well over 50 girls, and took about 30 girls to FC. I think my success rate is reasonable given that I am over 50. More than half the number of girls that I took to FC are in 18-22 yr range. Mostly college girls. I should say that sugar dating is not for the weak-hearted. If you want to score genuine SBs, you have to take some risks with out compromising your identity. My first SA profile had no photo, I was adamant not to send any photos to girls. All I attracted were escorts. No genuine SB is going to meet you without having an idea how you look like. Every time I renewed SA membership I corrected all my information in my profile as accurate as possible and added more photos (or sent photos via text or kik). I began to get response and interest from genuine SBs I am after and more and more FC visits with these girls. I firmly believe that having a profile photo makes the response rate go up. When I view girls on SA I immediately relate my thoughts to her profile photo. I am sure these girls do the same. These girls get lots of messages, you have to stand out and make them remember you. My public profile photo is a unique one at a unique angle without the face and without revealing my identity. In my profile, I say I expect discretion but happy to share more photos after chat. That way they get more confidence that I am genuine.

In my experience, when a girl favorited me without a message, it doesn't mean anything. So far I was not successful hitting FC with a girl who just favorited me without a message. I ignore them. I have my true income info on site, that way they know what I can afford and what I can't. Gold diggers are not going to come after me. Believe me or not, most of these genuine SBs appreciate honesty and straightforwardness.

Hope this helps. Everyone has his own way of approaching girls. Depends on what you are after. I am after college girl types with reasonable allowance, and my approach seems to be working so far as I am getting the desired results.

Good luck and play safe.

Dr. S.

[QUOTE=RappaHannock;4079211]I am relatively new to SA though I have had some limited success there.

Several things I have been thinking about and I am interested in others opinions or experiences based on what you have observed. So what are your thoughts on when a person favorites you? I am talking about local not someone from another country. I assume it means that person has read your profile and they have some interest in at least chatting. But then I think, why didn't they just message you and say hello, check out my profile and message me back if you want to chat. Just curious as to your thoughts on what message is it they are trying to convey.

If you favorite someone, what message are you trying to convey to that person?

I have chosen not to complete anything in regard to my annual income or net worth. The main reason is while I understand that is an important part of the deal, I don't really want that to be the main reason someone reaches out to you or responds to you. Interested to know if most people complete that, if so how honest about it are you and how important do you think it is as part of your profile.

I don't have any pictures posted on my profile because of discretion. Absolutely could not have pictures of my face floating around on line. I know that when I am looking at SA, I really don't pay much attention to profiles with no picture and I am wondering if that is the same situation with SB's. Just curious about peoples thoughts and opinions.

Hopefully this post will spark some good conversation that is helpful and informative for all.[/QUOTE]

Contrary to general consensus, I am having more success and less headache lately with younger SBs (18-22 yr) than older ones (25-35). Almost all my SBs that I hit FC in last 4 months are in 18-22 range. They are either extremely flaky and GPS or DTF. Nothing in between. Actually less drama than older SBs. When I hit FC with them it is always a blast. I can easily detect GPS, but flaky is hard to figure out, I guess I have to get better at detecting clues. My problem with older SBs (25-35), they over-analyze everything, they want to know all about me. It is more like a relationship than an arrangement. I really don't want to deal with that. With younger girls, if you manage them to show up for the date, the rest is easy. Are you guys having the same experience, or I am wondering it is how I approach them?

Stay Safe.

Dr. S.

[QUOTE=DrSummer;4079776]Contrary to general consensus, I am having more success and less headache lately with younger SBs (18-22 yr) than older ones (25-35). Almost all my SBs that I hit FC in last 4 months are in 18-22 range. They are either extremely flaky and GPS or DTF. Nothing in between. Actually less drama than older SBs. When I hit FC with them it is always a blast. I can easily detect GPS, but flaky is hard to figure out, I guess I have to get better at detecting clues. My problem with older SBs (25-35), they over-analyze everything, they want to know all about me. It is more like a relationship than an arrangement. I really don't want to deal with that. With younger girls, if you manage them to show up for the date, the rest is easy. Are you guys having the same experience, or I am wondering it is how I approach them?

Stay Safe.

Dr. S.[/QUOTE]I'd say it's just a matter of brain development plus life experience. The executive function matures around 22-24, and then at that point the older SB's are gaining more life experience, and develop a different perspective. The 18-22's are still more impulsive, have very short time horizons, limited risk assessment, etc. So when you get a good one in the younger crowd, they are more likely to take your lead without applying a lot of analytical skills to the equation. Benefits / negatives to both dynamics, all depends on what you're looking for.

Now that my game is leveled up a bit, I've branched out a bit into civvie dating. I've got this poly woman almost on the hook, who has a serious Daddy-Dom / Little-Girl thing going on. But holy crap, getting her over the threshold makes SA look like a walk in the park. Good practice I guess, and less $$, but just, wow.

[QUOTE=Walruscl;4080321]Now that my game is leveled up a bit, I've branched out a bit into civvie dating. I've got this poly woman almost on the hook, who has a serious Daddy-Dom / Little-Girl thing going on. But holy crap, getting her over the threshold makes SA look like a walk in the park. Good practice I guess, and less $$, but just, wow.[/QUOTE]Many good times to be found on civy sites, depending on how much time you have to put in it. It can also be a bit risky for a married man unless you find one that's okay with a traveling daddy, since a lot of civy finds tend to assume your local. The SA crowd by nature seems to be more location-agnostic. I've gotten some of my best pussy from civy sites, but the type of SD that wants to avoid involvement / emotional commitment at all costs (that's me) is going to find some issues there, because the SBs you find tend to be more relationship-minded, and in general more clingy. At least that was my experience.

[QUOTE=Walruscl;4080008]I'd say it's just a matter of brain development plus life experience. The executive function matures around 22-24, and then at that point the older SB's are gaining more life experience, and develop a different perspective. The 18-22's are still more impulsive, have very short time horizons, limited risk assessment, etc. So when you get a good one in the younger crowd, they are more likely to take your lead without applying a lot of analytical skills to the equation. Benefits / negatives to both dynamics, all depends on what you're looking for.[/QUOTE]Usually the younger ones are willing to take on more risk with the expectation a payday. There was a recent study on teenage brain development that found teenagers are willing to take more risks than any other age group. The older ones have more to protect in their lives so they will be willing to take smaller risks.

Then you need to start figuring out how to manage this risk aversion so they get comfy with you, or identify the 'loco' ones who did not lose their ability to take risk.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;4081480]Many good times to be found on civy sites, depending on how much time you have to put in it. It can also be a bit risky for a married man unless you find one that's okay with a traveling daddy, since a lot of civy finds tend to assume your local. The SA crowd by nature seems to be more location-agnostic. I've gotten some of my best pussy from civy sites, but the type of SD that wants to avoid involvement / emotional commitment at all costs (that's me) is going to find some issues there, because the SBs you find tend to be more relationship-minded, and in general more clingy. At least that was my experience.[/QUOTE]I don't have the problem of an SO to worry about, and in this specific case (and in general on civvie sites, if I can get my game up sufficiently well) I'm not looking for an SB. Already got one of those, don't feel like forking out even more $.

The relationship-mindedness problem in this specific instance is lessened by the fact that this is a married polyamorous woman, so unlikely she's going to get clingy. She's talking a really good game on the dating site's messaging, but I'm at a loss at how to move beyond talk-is-cheap. Don't get me wrong, the sexting is fun (no pics, just free-association playing out of dom / sub scenarios), and I'm willing to be patient. But I'm having trouble differentiating between two scenarios. One, someone who just isn't sure what they really want yet. Two, someone who's getting off on the sexting alone and keeps it more intense by not letting on that it's her end game rather than the path to a next step.

I have a person who favorited me with out actually viewing me. Is that possible?

Yup, through search when SB / SD list appears, you can just click on "heart icon" and that person will be Favorited.

[QUOTE=BobbyRichmond;4083013]I have a person who favorited me with out actually viewing me. Is that possible?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=BobbyRichmond;4083013]I have a person who favorited me with out actually viewing me. Is that possible?[/QUOTE]Even if they view your profile don't assume they have read it thoroughly. I have had three dates with SB's who hadn't noticed I was married.

[QUOTE=Walruscl;4082867]I don't have the problem of an SO to worry about, and in this specific case (and in general on civvie sites, if I can get my game up sufficiently well) I'm not looking for an SB. Already got one of those, don't feel like forking out even more $.

The relationship-mindedness problem in this specific instance is lessened by the fact that this is a married polyamorous woman, so unlikely she's going to get clingy. She's talking a really good game on the dating site's messaging, but I'm at a loss at how to move beyond talk-is-cheap. Don't get me wrong, the sexting is fun (no pics, just free-association playing out of dom / sub scenarios), and I'm willing to be patient. But I'm having trouble differentiating between two scenarios. One, someone who just isn't sure what they really want yet. Two, someone who's getting off on the sexting alone and keeps it more intense by not letting on that it's her end game rather than the path to a next step.[/QUOTE]I try to steer clear of married ones. Too many things that can go wrong. If she says they are in an open relationship, ask her if she minds if you talk to him to confirm (if you don't mind cutting bait that is, because 99% of the time you won't hear from her after that).

Not that I haven't banged plenty of married women in the past, but they were usually civy bar finds and a lot of times I didn't know they were married until they took me back to their house while their hubby was away. I do sometimes meet married SBs but it is few and far between. They also tend to come with rules and restrictions that can annoy, like they can only meet in the morning etc. That doesn't start to take into consideration the possibility of things like the hubby finding out and putting up a website dedicated to ruining your professional reputation (for those of us that care about that sort of thing).

Married women tend to be VERY careless about their meetings and communications, too. Often texting their lover on the same phone her hubby pays the bill for. They figure if they get caught maybe their hubby will start appreciating them more and giving them attention again. They typically don't care if he buys a gun and stalks their ex-lover simultaneously while rekindling their marriage, their lover has served his purpose at that point.

If a hot chick wants to suck on my cock I typically don't over analyze the situation or worry about the above, but usually the married ones aren't as hot as the non-married and to me just aren't worth the extra risk. The risk is escalated in the civy-dating scene, because they have little to no motive to hide what they are doing. Mainstream media / society now fully supports the female in the above scenario, she is automatically assumed to be the victim of a husband that didn't try hard enough. She wins either way. The lover never really wins anything... free pussy maybe but in most cases, better free pussy was available from another non-married one.

Not to mention legal, physical, and emotional risks involved.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;4084487]I try to steer clear of married ones. Too many things that can go wrong. If she says they are in an open relationship, ask her if she minds if you talk to him to confirm (if you don't mind cutting bait that is, because 99% of the time you won't hear from her after that).

Not that I haven't banged plenty of married women in the past, but they were usually civy bar finds and a lot of times I didn't know they were married until they took me back to their house while their hubby was away. I do sometimes meet married SBs but it is few and far between. They also tend to come with rules and restrictions that can annoy, like they can only meet in the morning etc. That doesn't start to take into consideration the possibility of things like the hubby finding out and putting up a website dedicated to ruining your professional reputation (for those of us that care about that sort of thing).[/QUOTE]Hear ya, and will definitely factor that in. In this case I'm hearing things like her already having a steady BF, that her husband usually vets new play-partners, that sort of thing. So I think the polyamory is real and functional. Early on I was able to establish a lot of cred because my SB (I referred to her as my GF, which isn't all that far from the truth) is poly, so there was a lot of discussion about those dynamics and how I navigated them.

I have to say, even sugar-dating a poly when you have been indoctrinated in traditional monogamous relationships can be very challenging, and so far I've welcomed those challenges and seemed to fare well. The two poly women I've sugared seemed to think it was a slam-dunk win-win, but what I've personally found is that sex is just so extremely casual for them that it can totally lack spark and passion. If I weren't so enamored with the dating aspect of my current SB I would have given up awhile ago, as the sex side of things has been unusually challenging.

[QUOTE=Walruscl;4080321]Now that my game is leveled up a bit, I've branched out a bit into civvie dating. I've got this poly woman almost on the hook, who has a serious Daddy-Dom / Little-Girl thing going on. But holy crap, getting her over the threshold makes SA look like a walk in the park. Good practice I guess, and less $$, but just, wow.[/QUOTE]What civie sites are worth looking into? Thanks CM.

[QUOTE=FScott;4061086]Z,

Thanks for this! I can also attest that it works. Is there a way to use the same procedure, or a variation, to suss out the SB's email or contact info? I see that all my dirty laundry is on display, but not hers. If you could poke around a bit more and see what else you can find, I'm pretty sure we would elect you to the SD Clubhouse All-Time Hall of Fame!

Waiting with bated breath.

Scott.[/QUOTE]I too can attest that this works, but my experience is that as a no longer current paying member, that the only messages I receive with either a phone number or an email is either from a scammer or a working girl. I too would love to know how to access more as this has been basically a tease. I have received some interesting messages, but that is as far as it can be taken without ponying up to the bar again.

Educate yourself about this ladies and watch what they think of men and how you are being use because you are being use or you willing to be go to youtube type sugardady tecnics or tips".

I don't assume all women in the bowl are scammers, rinsers, have GPS or are Pros but I know many of them are. I've learned how to filter them out. That education was gained thru experience and some expensive mistakes. Reading this forum has helped me shorten that education process. If I get taken now, I blame myself for not recognizing the Red flags.

Any girl that talks about "knowing my worth" is an immediate red flag for me.

[QUOTE=TheMarto1;4086271]Educate yourself about this ladies and watch what they think of men and how you are being use because you are being use or you willing to be go to youtube type sugardady tecnics or tips".[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=TheMarto1;4086271]Educate yourself about this ladies and watch what they think of men and how you are being use because you are being use or you willing to be go to youtube type sugardady tecnics or tips".[/QUOTE]"Blanket thinking" is universally reached for first because it's human nature. It is easy to assume that the boundaries of life are confined to our own personal experiences, and it is much harder to widen our understanding to fully take into consideration the experiences of others. This is what leads to the symptoms of narrow-minded people, who believe people are very easily categorized (I. E. All SBs are this or that).

Guys with lots of game find it very hard to believe that any SD would give a girl thousands per month in cash and gifts (but they are out there). Guys without game who haven't had much luck getting pussy without paying for it, believe that all SBs are hookers.

The reality of it is that the range of personalities and human behaviors is beyond the comprehension of most people.

I think this syndrome has actually been made worse by the Internet, because now, the average person with the average IQ believes that all facts about life show up in the first couple of pages of a Google search on any given topic. They do not even take into consideration the fact that Google is fundamentally a marketing company, not an information company. This means that what shows up in Google, Youtube, etc. Search results is based on an algorithm which will always be maximized to support Google's business model. It is not optimized to produce the most valuable information.

Ergo, because it's the first to show up in search results does not necessarily mean it is the most correct representation of the truth.

The reality is that the spectrum of SBs can run the gamut from full-on escorts at one side of the extreme, to girls with very little sexual experience at the other end of the extreme. Anyone who doesn't understand that is not experienced enough in the lifestyle for their opinions to be taken seriously on any level.

They are simply content to believe what they want to believe; and it's a case of arrested development that they are unlikely to ever be able to move past. They will never learn the truth because they've already confined themselves to what they believe they already know. They have one foot nailed to the floor and are running around in circles complaining about their condition, when they are the ones who drove the nail themselves. Whether their unfortunate condition is "Nature vs. Nurture", genetics versus experience, I don't know, but until they grow a pair of balls and take the initiative to recognize and change their own misfortune, they are sentenced to a lifetime of never getting pussy unless they pay for it.

When you're fishing in the waters of multiple large metros across multiple states, and the total population of all CSAs that you can select girls from is in the 10-20 million range, you get a much clearer overall picture than SDs who are casting lines only in their own hometown or area and basing their opinions on a much smaller sample size.

My personal observation is that the SB population, without a doubt, has a relative high ratio of gold-diggers compared to other forms of dating. So yeah, it doesn't surprise me that you see lots of YouTuber SBs talking shit.

People post YouTube videos as a source of income and post as much click-bait as possible to increase their bounty. This means that the other side of the lifestyle, which is girls that are in it for non-monetary reasons (daddy issues, sexual preference for older men, etc) are not sitting around making YouTube videos about why they do what they do -- there's nothing to be gained from it unless you're in it for ad-click money, and have a lot of free time on your hands (i.e. because you're escorting or are just not getting called on dates from top-shelf SDs).

For this reason, YouTube is absolutely NOT the best place to "educate ourselves" on how the sugar lifestyle really works; far from it. That's not to say the content shouldn't be viewed or considered... I do consider it, but only as entertainment.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;4086395]I don't assume all women in the bowl are scammers, rinsers, have GPS or are Pros but I know many of them are. I've learned how to filter them out. That education was gained thru experience and some expensive mistakes. Reading this forum has helped me shorten that education process. If I get taken now, I blame myself for not recognizing the Red flags.

Any girl that talks about "knowing my worth" is an immediate red flag for me.[/QUOTE]I agree, I don't like to see "I know my worth" either -- I rarely even contact them when I see that. I think it takes experience in the bowl to understand what parts of the girls profile should be ignored, and what part should be considered an important clue.

For example, if they talk about platonic intentions / not in it for sex, etc... they really mean "unless I'm attracted to you". But, if they start describing themselves as sassy, bitchy, demanding etc. Then almost without fail it turns out to be true, and it's not something that is easily overcome, so adjectives like those should be taken under instant consideration.