Tips, Tricks, Arguing, and Bullshit

[QUOTE=FolkArt;2776087]This is all good advice, the signs of an LE set up. Please note that sometimes they do post face pics in their entrapment ads, so presence of a face is not a guarantee of security.

Earlier in my adventures, I once answered one of these ads and went to the hotel room. It became pretty clear she was a cop.

- changing the donation to a lower amount when I arrived.

- no indications of any touching or physical displays of affection.

- clothes remained completely on; she didn't even take off her shoes.

- very loud and clear announcement to set the money on the table.

- at one point, she described how I looked. Odd. Later I figured that was probably intended to match the actual person with the act.

- repeatedly trying to trick me say what I acts I wanted to perform or have her perform ("do you want a blow job? When I said I don't talk about that stuff, she persisted, stating that other guys told her everything upfront. Yeah, I said, and they're stupid.

- when I told her I just wanted to talk and get to know her, she started saying she wasn't interested in getting to know me, just wanted to get down to it.

- as I left, she told me to take the money with me. No BP girl would ever do that. LOL. Especially since the donation is supposedly for time and companionship.

It all lasted about 2 minutes before it. All became clear and I realized it was a trap and got out of there. I was lucky.[/QUOTE]Very lucky. Did you actually put the donation on the table like she asked? That would seem to me to be enough for the party to start.

I noticed one of the ads in another thread that was posted as a possible sting, the pictures looked like someone took a pic on a camera phone of a pic on a computer screen. Is this usually a giveaway that something isn't right? I've seen girls on PoF and OKC do that and I always pass right by them.

[QUOTE=FolkArt;2776087]This is all good advice, the signs of an LE set up. Please note that sometimes they do post face pics in their entrapment ads, so presence of a face is not a guarantee of security.

Earlier in my adventures, I once answered one of these ads and went to the hotel room. It became pretty clear she was a cop.

- changing the donation to a lower amount when I arrived.

- no indications of any touching or physical displays of affection.

- clothes remained completely on; she didn't even take off her shoes.

- very loud and clear announcement to set the money on the table.

- at one point, she described how I looked. Odd. Later I figured that was probably intended to match the actual person with the act.

- repeatedly trying to trick me say what I acts I wanted to perform or have her perform ("do you want a blow job? When I said I don't talk about that stuff, she persisted, stating that other guys told her everything upfront. Yeah, I said, and they're stupid.

- when I told her I just wanted to talk and get to know her, she started saying she wasn't interested in getting to know me, just wanted to get down to it.

- as I left, she told me to take the money with me. No BP girl would ever do that. LOL. Especially since the donation is supposedly for time and companionship.

It all lasted about 2 minutes before it. All became clear and I realized it was a trap and got out of there. I was lucky.[/QUOTE]Those are good points if you decide to take the plunge and see the girl you are considering in an ad. Previous posters said LE will bust you anyway, just for showing up. I know for sure if you ask them if they are with LE in the room, via text or during a phone conversation, they will lie and say no. The point you make about no physical displays of affection is a good one. That's the main one I go by. It happened to me twice. Once I laid down the donation and tried to give the girl a hug and she backed off. She did ask me what I wanted to do and I said let's just let things take their course. I immediately left without my donation after she backed off. The second time I left as soon as the girl backed off from giving me a hug when I entered the room. I did not lay down the donation this time. Neither girl was the girl in the ad but both were good looking enough that I didn't care. They could have been legal or they could have been an agency intending to upsell me. LE has been pretty good about posting ads where the pics cannot be traced to Chive, or another website or another BP ad, but you are right about the face pics because lately I have seen more LE ads you might see some scammer use which can easily be detected using Google Image. I am pretty sure I could design an ad using realistic pics, select the right hotel and write the script for the decoy to say, including the right responses to certain questions, that would fool myself. In the end, if they can bust you for showing up, then there is no way out, but if they cannot touch you and you need to say you want sex then only a naïve monger would get busted because those are 2 easy rules to follow. So guys, get that embrace and grab her ass when you enter the room and never say what you want to do until you are at least kissing or have her partially undressed.

You are very astute. Being able to discern and identify all the tell tale signs with high attention to detail and recollect from memory is very impressive. Also being able to refrain from impulse and temptation in the moment. I will look for all these signs from now on in my mongering exploits. One of the most valuable and interesting posts I've ever come across on this forum and from a non senior member too.

[QUOTE=FolkArt;2776087]This is all good advice, the signs of an LE set up. Please note that sometimes they do post face pics in their entrapment ads, so presence of a face is not a guarantee of security.

Earlier in my adventures, I once answered one of these ads and went to the hotel room. It became pretty clear she was a cop.

- changing the donation to a lower amount when I arrived.

- no indications of any touching or physical displays of affection.

- clothes remained completely on; she didn't even take off her shoes.

- very loud and clear announcement to set the money on the table.

- at one point, she described how I looked. Odd. Later I figured that was probably intended to match the actual person with the act.

- repeatedly trying to trick me say what I acts I wanted to perform or have her perform ("do you want a blow job? When I said I don't talk about that stuff, she persisted, stating that other guys told her everything upfront. Yeah, I said, and they're stupid.

- when I told her I just wanted to talk and get to know her, she started saying she wasn't interested in getting to know me, just wanted to get down to it.

- as I left, she told me to take the money with me. No BP girl would ever do that. LOL. Especially since the donation is supposedly for time and companionship.

It all lasted about 2 minutes before it. All became clear and I realized it was a trap and got out of there. I was lucky.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FolkArt;2776087]This is all good advice, the signs of an LE set up. Please note that sometimes they do post face pics in their entrapment ads, so presence of a face is not a guarantee of security.

Earlier in my adventures, I once answered one of these ads and went to the hotel room. It became pretty clear she was a cop.

- changing the donation to a lower amount when I arrived.

- no indications of any touching or physical displays of affection.

- clothes remained completely on; she didn't even take off her shoes.

- very loud and clear announcement to set the money on the table.

- at one point, she described how I looked. Odd. Later I figured that was probably intended to match the actual person with the act.

- repeatedly trying to trick me say what I acts I wanted to perform or have her perform ("do you want a blow job? When I said I don't talk about that stuff, she persisted, stating that other guys told her everything upfront. Yeah, I said, and they're stupid.

- when I told her I just wanted to talk and get to know her, she started saying she wasn't interested in getting to know me, just wanted to get down to it.

- as I left, she told me to take the money with me. No BP girl would ever do that. LOL. Especially since the donation is supposedly for time and companionship.

It all lasted about 2 minutes before it. All became clear and I realized it was a trap and got out of there. I was lucky.[/QUOTE]That's all nice and dandy. But when you show up to the location there is "intent" You can bob and weave thru the conversation all you want. Your still going to be busted for the criminal intent. You came there for a reason. YOu can ask them any questions you want they don't have to be truthful. You went there with the INTENT of doing something illegal. That's all they care about.

[QUOTE=ThirdManAlive;2777006]Very lucky. Did you actually put the donation on the table like she asked? That would seem to me to be enough for the party to start.

I noticed one of the ads in another thread that was posted as a possible sting, the pictures looked like someone took a pic on a camera phone of a pic on a computer screen. Is this usually a giveaway that something isn't right? I've seen girls on PoF and OKC do that and I always pass right by them.[/QUOTE]Yes I did set the donation down on the table. But, as far as I know, that is insufficient to arrest a potential John. You have to say you want a sex act.

When I meet a girl for the first time now I always say "this donation is just for time and companionship. Anything that happens between us after that is just between two consenting adults". I doubt that it is a guarantee that they won't bust you but it will make their case very difficult to prove in court, I think. Especially if you never talk about any sex acts.

[QUOTE=FolkArt;2776087]This is all good advice, the signs of an LE set up. Please note that sometimes they do post face pics in their entrapment ads, so presence of a face is not a guarantee of security.

Earlier in my adventures, I once answered one of these ads and went to the hotel room. It became pretty clear she was a cop.

- changing the donation to a lower amount when I arrived.

- no indications of any touching or physical displays of affection.

- clothes remained completely on; she didn't even take off her shoes.

- very loud and clear announcement to set the money on the table.

- at one point, she described how I looked. Odd. Later I figured that was probably intended to match the actual person with the act.

- repeatedly trying to trick me say what I acts I wanted to perform or have her perform ("do you want a blow job? When I said I don't talk about that stuff, she persisted, stating that other guys told her everything upfront. Yeah, I said, and they're stupid.

- when I told her I just wanted to talk and get to know her, she started saying she wasn't interested in getting to know me, just wanted to get down to it.

- as I left, she told me to take the money with me. No BP girl would ever do that. LOL. Especially since the donation is supposedly for time and companionship.

It all lasted about 2 minutes before it. All became clear and I realized it was a trap and got out of there. I was lucky.[/QUOTE]I like that scenario, and you achieve a lot in two minutes conversation. I will let you in on experience. Being arrogant and non-chalant in my endeavors. I see one of those LE Ads. I respond to it. Do the normal 2 call system. Except they wanted me to meet at certain spot and text when I got there. I do the text and they tell me give me 20 minutes. I'm like I don't wait and passed on the opportunity. The next day I seen the exact same ad and responded I'm on my way. I like to do things within 15 minutes of person posting. Did the same thing as I did the day before. I get to the location and room. I walk in. There is mature blonde chick in a mini skirt. She looked kinda weird but I never thought nothing of it. Then there is the other female who I scheduled with. SHe is mature as well but she is dressed like she is going to a job interview. I think nothing of it but odd. In kitchenette area you see a 12 pack of beer box. ON bed is 3 sets of bra and panties. On the nightstand is "anal toy" box. That was my observation of room setup. We start to have small talk conversation about where was I yesterday. I said I have a 30 minute or less rule. Then the question was asked do I have protection? I stated sure. She replies back good because I don; t think I have your size. She then ask me what outfit would you like me wear? I 'm like you don't have to do all that I'm a simple person. She then says lay the donation down on the counter, and get yourself comfortable while I go to the bathroom to freshen up. IN that split seconds I only had one shoe off, before 6 vice cops with guns drawn. Saying don't make a move. SO you know the rest is history. I get a citation to make a court appearance. At the same time the do a check on your license to see if you have any warrants. In my case I had none. SO I was released. During the process of checking for warrants. They asked me how many times you done this. Blah blah blah. Then I got the lecture about what diseases you may contract. After the process and released they informed me to not tell anyone because if I do they know how to find me.

Anyways I go to court. Get a public defender. Since its my first offense its a 3rd degree misdemeanor. YOu have to take a John School program, pay the fine, and get a letterhead form from your doctor or clinic stating you went to get a HIV / STD test. They don't care for the results just something saying you been to take one.

So all those scenarios you say be careful what you say, and exchanging of the money is nothing more than myth. Once you enter that room it is all pre-mediated.

I'm saying it because of experience. That's why now I'm more conscious in my intel.

Thanks for sharing your full experience, R45. Sorry you got busted. Any of the guidelines I outline are not guarantees. They worked for me once. But as I said, I got lucky. I would never think I can outwit LEO. There is no substitute for checking thoroughly in advance, doing solid research, and being careful.

[QUOTE=Redemption45;2777912]I like that scenario, and you achieve a lot in two minutes conversation. I will let you in on experience. Being arrogant and non-chalant in my endeavors. I see one of those LE Ads. I respond to it. Do the normal 2 call system. Except they wanted me to meet at certain spot and text when I got there. I do the text and they tell me give me 20 minutes. I'm like I don't wait and passed on the opportunity. The next day I seen the exact same ad and responded I'm on my way. I like to do things within 15 minutes of person posting. Did the same thing as I did the day before. I get to the location and room. I walk in. There is mature blonde chick in a mini skirt. She looked kinda weird but I never thought nothing of it. Then there is the other female who I scheduled with. SHe is mature as well but she is dressed like she is going to a job interview. I think nothing of it but odd. In kitchenette area you see a 12 pack of beer box. ON bed is 3 sets of bra and panties. On the nightstand is "anal toy" box. That was my observation of room setup. We start to have small talk conversation about where was I yesterday. I said I have a 30 minute or less rule. Then the question was asked do I have protection? I stated sure. She replies back good because I don; t think I have your size. She then ask me what outfit would you like me wear? I 'm like you don't have to do all that I'm a simple person. She then says lay the donation down on the counter, and get yourself comfortable while I go to the bathroom to freshen up. IN that split seconds I only had one shoe off, before 6 vice cops with guns drawn. Saying don't make a move. SO you know the rest is history. I get a citation to make a court appearance. At the same time the do a check on your license to see if you have any warrants. In my case I had none. SO I was released. During the process of checking for warrants. They asked me how many times you done this. Blah blah blah. Then I got the lecture about what diseases you may contract. After the process and released they informed me to not tell anyone because if I do they know how to find me.

Anyways I go to court. Get a public defender. Since its my first offense its a 3rd degree misdemeanor. YOu have to take a John School program, pay the fine, and get a letterhead form from your doctor or clinic stating you went to get a HIV / STD test. They don't care for the results just something saying you been to take one.

So all those scenarios you say be careful what you say, and exchanging of the money is nothing more than myth. Once you enter that room it is all pre-mediated.

I'm saying it because of experience. That's why now I'm more conscious in my intel.[/QUOTE]I'm really curious as to what were you actually charged with? Did you plead guilty?

If they are fully dressed, ask where they would like to go or whether they would like to go to dinner or get drinks. Don't put any money out until you know for sure they are legit. If they ask for a donation before you have established that, say things that would make it difficult to establish criminal intent.

Criminal intent is not a crime; it must be established to convict you of a crime. If you're asked about condoms you should play it as though you are there to take them on a legitimate date. You can always leave while stating that you were there to take them on a date and aren't the type of guy who engages in casual sex. The point is that you can do things that make it very difficult to prove criminal intent when charged with a crime.

Public defenders usually advise their clients to plea bargain if the prosecutor presents that option, even if the client claims innocence.

[QUOTE=RockyRhodes;2778240]I'm really curious as to what were you actually charged with? Did you plead guilty?

If they are fully dressed, ask where they would like to go or whether they would like to go to dinner or get drinks. Don't put any money out until you know for sure they are legit. If they ask for a donation before you have established that, say things that would make it difficult to establish criminal intent.

Criminal intent is not a crime; it must be established to convict you of a crime. If you're asked about condoms you should play it as though you are there to take them on a legitimate date. You can always leave while stating that you were there to take them on a date and aren't the type of guy who engages in casual sex. The point is that you can do things that make it very difficult to prove criminal intent when charged with a crime.

Public defenders usually advise their clients to plea bargain if the prosecutor presents that option, even if the client claims innocence.[/QUOTE]You make it sound so easy to beat the charge. Are you going to have a bench trial or jury trial? If I'm on a jury and you showed up to a hotel room through a back page ad then I'm pretty much going to conclude your guilty at that point regardless of what nonsense you make up. A Judge is pretty much going to do the same.

Maybe you get a non public defender and pay him thousands in fees and he could possibly get you off but then your still going to be out tons of $.

Point being it isn't going to be as easy to get off as you suggest. Even if they have a weak case against you it doesn't matter. Because the system is already against you and who is going to care if some monger lost a case they should have won because of weak evidence. Nobody.

Also, keep in mind if you plea not guilty and do have a trial, the John school program and such is going to be off the table. If you do get found guilty after a trial they are going sentence you much more harshly to teach you a lesson.

Redemption, thanks for sharing your story and I think you did the right thing going to John school and stuff. It's basically a free pass for a first time busted John. Save the pleading not guilty for the next time you get busted when they are no longer offering you an easy out.

Just my 2 cents.

Also for the record, as a person who did law enforcement for a number of years, I am highly skeptical of the close call with LEO stories. All the people saying they walked out of LEO stings because of how the didn't say this or that we not really at an LEO sting. If you show up to and LEO sting in Columbus, YOU WILL BE CHARGED regardless of what you do after you show up. As others have said showing up is enough. Yes they may try to make a stronger case by asking you incriminating stuff but if their case first get better the aren't going to let you walk after showing up. They will charge you and let you prove your not guilty on a weak case rather then let you walk.

[QUOTE=SexyBits;2778399]Also for the record, as a person who did law enforcement for a number of years, I am highly skeptical of the close call with LEO stories. All the people saying they walked out of LEO stings because of how the didn't say this or that we not really at an LEO sting. If you show up to and LEO sting in Columbus, YOU WILL BE CHARGED regardless of what you do after you show up. As others have said showing up is enough. Yes they may try to make a stronger case by asking you incriminating stuff but if their case first get better the aren't going to let you walk after showing up. They will charge you and let you prove your not guilty on a weak case rather then let you walk.[/QUOTE]That's the way I approach this hobby. The risk is always there. If I am taking the plunge, I know there is always that chance of getting stung, or the possibility of getting ripped off. Some situations & environments present a higher probability than others of that happening but you can mitigate the damage to some degree by research & preparation. My initial and subsequent interpretation after the 2 experiences I mentioned below, when the providers backed off from a hug upon greeting, was that they were agency girls trying to upsell and would ultimately only deliver a lame lap dance or say they only offer companionship or conversation. Not LE. One of those experiences happened in Cincinnati and one in Cbus.

You fools need to take the advice of Sexybits.

[QUOTE=SexyBits;2778399]You make it sound so easy to beat the charge. Are you going to have a bench trial or jury trial? If I'm on a jury and you showed up to a hotel room through a back page ad then I'm pretty much going to conclude your guilty at that point regardless of what nonsense you make up. A Judge is pretty much going to do the same.

Maybe you get a non public defender and pay him thousands in fees and he could possibly get you off but then your still going to be out tons of $.

Point being it isn't going to be as easy to get off as you suggest. Even if they have a weak case against you it doesn't matter. Because the system is already against you and who is going to care if some monger lost a case they should have won because of weak evidence. Nobody.

Also, keep in mind if you plea not guilty and do have a trial, the John school program and such is going to be off the table. If you do get found guilty after a trial they are going sentence you much more harshly to teach you a lesson.

Redemption, thanks for sharing your story and I think you did the right thing going to John school and stuff. It's basically a free pass for a first time busted John. Save the pleading not guilty for the next time you get busted when they are no longer offering you an easy out.

Just my 2 cents.

Also for the record, as a person who did law enforcement for a number of years, I am highly skeptical of the close call with LEO stories. All the people saying they walked out of LEO stings because of how the didn't say this or that we not really at an LEO sting. If you show up to and LEO sting in Columbus, YOU WILL BE CHARGED regardless of what you do after you show up. As others have said showing up is enough. Yes they may try to make a stronger case by asking you incriminating stuff but if their case first get better the aren't going to let you walk after showing up. They will charge you and let you prove your not guilty on a weak case rather then let you walk.[/QUOTE]You're right on almost every point. I wasn't trying to be critical, just offering some suggestions. I was really just curious as to whether Redemption entered a plea bargain. In my opinion, most people do when faced with criminal charges.

[QUOTE=RockyRhodes;2779089]You're right on almost every point. I wasn't trying to be critical, just offering some suggestions. I was really just curious as to whether Redemption entered a plea bargain. In my opinion, most people do when faced with criminal charges.[/QUOTE]You get charged for Solicitation 3rd degree misdemeanor. But since it was my first offense I didn't much do or say anything. The purpose of getting public defender is just so the prosecutor and public defender do there normal legal jargon for first time offenders. Now if its not your second offense, there is a good suggestion to get your own legal counsel because I'm thinking there going to throw the book at you.

I'm just giving everyone a FYI from my personal experience.

[QUOTE=SexyBits;2778399]
Also for the record, as a person who did law enforcement for a number of years, I am highly skeptical of the close call with LEO stories. All the people saying they walked out of LEO stings because of how the didn't say this or that we not really at an LEO sting. If you show up to and LEO sting in Columbus, YOU WILL BE CHARGED regardless of what you do after you show up. As others have said showing up is enough.[/QUOTE]You may be right. The experience I narrated below may have just been just an awkward provider, not LE. It's just that everything seemed so strange (the clothes, the insistence and persistence on getting me to name the sex act, the odd way the donation was handled), all lead me to believe it was a sting that somehow I managed to avoid.

[QUOTE=Redemption45;2779109]You get charged for Solicitation 3rd degree misdemeanor. But since it was my first offense I didn't much do or say anything. The purpose of getting public defender is just so the prosecutor and public defender do there normal legal jargon for first time offenders. Now if its not your second offense, there is a good suggestion to get your own legal counsel because I'm thinking there going to throw the book at you.

I'm just giving everyone a FYI from my personal experience.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the information, and sorry to hear of your bad luck.