[QUOTE=TonyJohnson;3127378]Raining outside and not feeling in the mood to do anything.
And a thought came up and I am just asking:
Would you bateback (fs) with a provider and in what scenario or never?[/QUOTE]NO.
No.
No.
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[QUOTE=TonyJohnson;3127378]Raining outside and not feeling in the mood to do anything.
And a thought came up and I am just asking:
Would you bateback (fs) with a provider and in what scenario or never?[/QUOTE]NO.
No.
No.
[QUOTE=DuggerJug;3136316]You deserve at least a "nice try" for your efforts. We mongers are often portrayed by the media and others as being part of the addiction / human trafficking problem. We are not all heartless.[/QUOTE]This is why FF and I repeatedly seem to beat our heads on the wall about seeing the addicts. Yes we are not heartless (well most of us). We are good people. So are the vast majority of providers. The problem is they are controlled by their addictions. In this regard, if we support those providers we are part of the problem. By seeing them, we are enabling that addiction through donations. Take the recent reports on Beauty. When she showed up there were some signs but she seemed to have her shit together. Now she is getting business and $ and the reports just get worse and worse with reports of heavier usage. As a single monger, not seeing a provider will not solve her addiction but you are not making it worse and have that peace of mind!
During my tenure in the hobby I had multiple relationships / friendships with providers suffering from one form of addiction or another. At the point where the truth finally came out I was always told they feared being written off if I knew. Once the full truth is out, progress can be made if they desire.
Sincerely Signed,
The Biggest Prick in the Yard.
[QUOTE=Scott4020;3136068]NO.
No.
No.[/QUOTE]Not saying it is you but everyone says no. Truth is many mongers even on this board do it but do not admit it. About a year ago, a highly sought-after provider contracted an STD thru non-hobby play. When it got out, a crazy number of mongers raced out their respective doors to get checked with a large number of them acknowledging bb to me directly.
Moral of the story is play smart and make your own choice because what you read may or may not be the truth.
Sincerely Signed,
The Biggest Prick in the Yard.
[QUOTE=IndyGuy123;3136501]This is why FF and I repeatedly seem to beat our heads on the wall about seeing the addicts. Yes we are not heartless (well most of us). We are good people. So are the vast majority of providers. The problem is they are controlled by their addictions. In this regard, if we support those providers we are part of the problem. By seeing them, we are enabling that addiction through donations. Take the recent reports on Beauty. When she showed up there were some signs but she seemed to have her shit together. Now she is getting business and $ and the reports just get worse and worse with reports of heavier usage. As a single monger, not seeing a provider will not solve her addiction but you are not making it worse and have that peace of mind!
During my tenure in the hobby I had multiple relationships / friendships with providers suffering from one form of addiction or another. At the point where the truth finally came out I was always told they feared being written off if I knew. Once the full truth is out, progress can be made if they desire.
Sincerely Signed,
The Biggest Prick in the Yard.[/QUOTE]Indeed, enabling an addict is another word for murder. For if we shelter the addict / alcoholic from the pain they should be feeling, they have less reason to seek help. But evidence shows conclusively that every day spent in lock-up / jail / prison is a day with a good chance of relapse. So what I sought to do was not enable her, but to keep her out of jail pending trial while in the interim maneuvering her into treatment as part of the agreement with an attorney friend of mine. There are no easy solutions to these problems. I accept the criticisms leveled at me for my choices. But I stand by them.
[QUOTE=MonsieurRobert;3136587]Indeed, enabling an addict is another word for murder.[/QUOTE]Enabling an addict is just that, enabling an addict, and the enabler is just as sick as the addict.
Murder would be something else entirely.
In Indiana this is murder;.
[QUOTE]A person commits murder if he or she does any of the following:
Intentionally kills another human being
Kills another person while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, kidnapping, rape, robbery, human or sex trafficking, carjacking, or narcotic or meth dealing or manufacturing (the "felony murder rule")
Intentionally kills a fetus that has attained viability[/QUOTE]I guess if the enabling included injecting them with the shot that killed them then yeah that would probably make it murder. Otherwise nope, not murder.
[QUOTE=IndyGuy123;3136516]Not saying it is you but everyone says no. Truth is many mongers even on this board do it but do not admit it. About a year ago, a highly sought-after provider contracted an STD thru non-hobby play. When it got out, a crazy number of mongers raced out their respective doors to get checked with a large number of them acknowledging bb to me directly.
Moral of the story is play smart and make your own choice because what you read may or may not be the truth.
Sincerely Signed,
The Biggest Prick in the Yard.[/QUOTE]And very truthful on denial on BOTH sides of the isle. Choose your ladies wisely and your men equally so ladies JMO.
[QUOTE=MonsieurRobert;3136587]There are no easy solutions to these problems. I accept the criticisms leveled at me for my choices. But I stand by them.[/QUOTE]Not faulting you for your efforts at all. There is a big difference in your story and my intended point of seeing active users and further enabling their addictions. Your story is the difficult one of short term loses in effort for the long term victory.
A good friend and I have had the discussion multiple times on the difficulty of going thru this from our side. It can be physically and worse emotionally draining.
Sincerely Signed,
The Biggest Prick in the Yard.
[QUOTE=MonsieurRobert;3136071]I have nearly two decades in recovery and remember how completely my life was but a web of lies all meant to maintain access to my drug of choice. Bourbon. I should know better, especially given my own history. But something in me sees the suffering of a dope sick addict and for some reason I can no more let her lie there in misery than I could ignore a drowning child -- for in a very real sense, that's what she is. That's just the unfortunate way I'm wired I guess.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=MonsieurRobert;3136587]Indeed, enabling an addict is another word for murder. For if we shelter the addict / alcoholic from the pain they should be feeling, they have less reason to seek help. But evidence shows conclusively that every day spent in lock-up / jail / prison is a day with a good chance of relapse. So what I sought to do was not enable her, but to keep her out of jail pending trial while in the interim maneuvering her into treatment as part of the agreement with an attorney friend of mine. There are no easy solutions to these problems. I accept the criticisms leveled at me for my choices. But I stand by them.[/QUOTE]A2 is right, enabling an addict is not murder. It could possibly be considered assisted suicide because it's the addicts choice to use and the enablers choice to assist in the addicts continued drug abuse. You had a choice to make and your choice in my mind shows that you are an important part of humanity. Based on your own experiences it also shows that you were trying to give back which is an important part of being a recovering addict, helping other addicts. For this I commend you!
There are those in the hobby who hold the hobby creed very close to the vest [B]We pay them for sex and for them to leave[/B]. I have no problem with those that do. They get more pussy for the $ and much less headaches. I for one have not done that in some cases. All anyone has to do is read the story about Ursula the Sea Witch to know where my humanity sometimes leads me. In that story I did some things wrong, just like you may have with your situation. We just made the choice to not follow the hobby creed.
I fell in love with an addict and couldn't help her until she finally decided to help herself. I made the choice to not enable her anymore and she then made the choice to change partially because she hit rock bottom after I said my goodbyes and left. Once she made the choice to change I supported her efforts throughout her rehab and we became a couple and we were engaged to be married. She is gone now but she died clean. It can happen, addicts can make the right choices. If I had never tried to help then she would have been gone a long time ago. She made a choice for change and I made the choice to no longer enable her but to support her recovery. It's a fine line between enabling and support especially when one believes in the graces of humanity.
[QUOTE=FreckleFreak;3136925]A2 is right, enabling an addict is not murder. It could possibly be considered assisted suicide because it's the addicts choice to use and the enablers choice to assist in the addicts continued drug abuse. You had a choice to make and your choice in my mind shows that you are an important part of humanity. Based on your own experiences it also shows that you were trying to give back which is an important part of being a recovering addict, helping other addicts. For this I commend you!
There are those in the hobby who hold the hobby creed very close to the vest [B]We pay them for sex and for them to leave[/B]. I have no problem with those that do. They get more pussy for the $ and much less headaches. I for one have not done that in some cases. All anyone has to do is read the story about Ursula the Sea Witch to know where my humanity sometimes leads me. In that story I did some things wrong, just like you may have with your situation. We just made the choice to not follow the hobby creed.
I fell in love with an addict and couldn't help her until she finally decided to help herself. I made the choice to not enable her anymore and she then made the choice to change partially because she hit rock bottom after I said my goodbyes and left. Once she made the choice to change I supported her efforts throughout her rehab and we became a couple and we were engaged to be married. She is gone now but she died clean. It can happen, addicts can make the right choices. If I had never tried to help then she would have been gone a long time ago. She made a choice for change and I made the choice to no longer enable her but to support her recovery. It's a fine line between enabling and support especially when one believes in the graces of humanity.[/QUOTE]Good god there are so many unhappy endings to addiction stories. Thank you for sharing with me that experience. I think I may find it tougher than some to prevent various emotional attachments from developing with the providers I've been with. Sounds like you suffer the same character trait (flaw? It means I expose myself to exploitation more than others, but the heart wants what the heart wants.
Peace to us all.
[QUOTE=FreckleFreak;3136925]because it's the addicts choice to use [/QUOTE]FF, I think you're a good man with a good heart so I'm 100% not busting your balls here.
Addicts don't choose to use, they are addicts because they [B]HAVE[/B] to use. It's why it's impossible to have a real relationship with an addict, the dopes always going to be first. They get clean for a lot of reasons, I've been clean forever any why that happens to anybody, myself included, remains a mystery to me.
I jumped in because the brother said enabling is murder. It's not, and I said so. That doesn't mean I encourage enabling, it's just not murder.
The chick you were talking about probably did get better because without your support she got closer to the effects of her addiction.
I said I don't know why anybody gets clean and I don't but generally speaking it involves a lot of pain, a whole fuckload of pain. A man once told me a long, long, very fucking LONG time ago that no addict gets clean until the cost of using gets greater than the pleasure or relief that using gives them. I think he was right about that. I don't think that's the whole story of why it happens but I think he was 100% right in what he said.
The really hard part about not enabling is sometimes they die. It's not a kids game.
A2.
[QUOTE=MonsieurRobert;3137311]Good god there are so many unhappy endings to addiction stories. Thank you for sharing with me that experience. I think I may find it tougher than some to prevent various emotional attachments from developing with the providers I've been with. Sounds like you suffer the same character trait (flaw? It means I expose myself to exploitation more than others, but the heart wants what the heart wants.
Peace to us all.[/QUOTE]That special connection we do not have at home which can lead to seeking a GF / BF in this. Others can just get by with just the physical hookup. Either way the human side comes into play and causes us to try and "help" by showing we care and that can be where the problems / trouble steps in. I am sure we all have tried to help or ladies have wanted something more than just a brief interlude. It is a slippery slope depending on all the variables that come into play. We are for the most part all human and need that interaction that is more than just s*x. JMO.
[QUOTE=IndyGuy123;3136813]Not faulting you for your efforts at all. There is a big difference in your story and my intended point of seeing active users and further enabling their addictions. Your story is the difficult one of short term loses in effort for the long term victory.
A good friend and I have had the discussion multiple times on the difficulty of going thru this from our side. It can be physically and worse emotionally draining.
Sincerely Signed,
The Biggest Prick in the Yard.[/QUOTE]It's hard not to enable someone because you love them and care for them and not want them suffering. That's the mindset that is sometimes used to justify enabling. Hearts get in the way instead of the brain sometimes and even though it's a well intention the truth is that we are just hurting them more in the process.
I see it everyday at work. (No not this part time job LOL) OD 's, people that pass away and 9/10 times I hear the same thing from family members and friends, " they didn't think it was that bad " and I'm not sure if they try to convince themselves of that or if they simply were obvious. They always say the same things. What could I have done or why didn't I see this? In reality there was nothing they could do. You can NOT make someone change if they are not ready.
Addicts are getting younger and younger and the truth is that it's always going to be around.
I see if first hand and it tears my heart out when I see someone that just OD 3 hours prior check them selves out and know where they are going and there is a chance that I'm going to see them right back either in the same condition or worse. Whether they are a stranger or simply someone you care for the feeling is the same. Feeling of being helpless and knowing there is nothing you can do until they want it.
I used to reach constantly to people. To get them the resources for help and point them in the right direction but as A2 pointed out and I agree wholeheartedly that it's not that they choose to keep being addicts, it's their mind and body telling them it's the ONLY thing important. They HAVE to have the drug and only thing that is going to keep them surviving. Some are just not ready to dig deep inside them selves and really go thru the pain of why they started in the first place. Sometimes that is too much for someone to truly bare.
When I started doing this part time I truly started simply because I enjoy it. I have been " schooled " into what a dark world this can be. I have said this time and time again. I'm lucky that I have never had to deal with addiction personally but I have seen friends struggle with addiction and have seen what it does to family and friends. I also have friends that have been able to become sober and remain and I have had friends that the addiction has taken their life's.
I applaud some of you. Your compassion and the kindness of sharing on the forum of personal experiences in hopes of it being heard is commendable. It comes from a place that unfortunately in today's society that more people are worried about what they can do for themselves or simply don't care if a provider is addicted perhaps that's the mongers addiction of playing Russian roulette every time they schedule with an addicts to see if they are going to be robbed, contract something, or worse be in a position where that provider OD's during. Time and time again certain members on this board who have hearts of gold have warned and continue to send their personal opinions of enabling but as we all know that unfortunately drugs and drug use is not going to go away and some members will think with their cock instead of their head. (come on we all know it happens LOL) .
Indianapolis is going to start giving people Narcan kits free so if they are around someone that OD's they themselves can administer instead of waiting for EMT or emergency personal to arrive. Everyone that wants one has to sit thru training. I have mixed reviews on this. It's simply band aiding a continued epidemic however it's a start.
[QUOTE=Mmgeg;3137926]Indianapolis is going to start giving people Narcan kits free so if they are around someone that OD's they themselves can administer instead of waiting for EMT or emergency personal to arrive. Everyone that wants one has to sit thru training. I have mixed reviews on this. It's simply band aiding a continued epidemic however it's a start.[/QUOTE]It's only a band aid, but its far, far better than promoting abstinence, which is simply unrealistic.
[QUOTE=Admin2;3137543]FF, I think you're a good man with a good heart so I'm 100% not busting your balls here.
Addicts don't choose to use, they are addicts because they [B]HAVE[/B] to use. It's why it's impossible to have a real relationship with an addict, the dopes always going to be first. They get clean for a lot of reasons, I've been clean forever any why that happens to anybody, myself included, remains a mystery to me.
I jumped in because the brother said enabling is murder. It's not, and I said so. That doesn't mean I encourage enabling, it's just not murder.
The chick you were talking about probably did get better because without your support she got closer to the effects of her addiction.
I said I don't know why anybody gets clean and I don't but generally speaking it involves a lot of pain, a whole fuckload of pain. A man once told me a long, long, very fucking LONG time ago that no addict gets clean until the cost of using gets greater than the pleasure or relief that using gives them. I think he was right about that. I don't think that's the whole story of why it happens but I think he was 100% right in what he said.
The really hard part about not enabling is sometimes they die. It's not a kids game.
A2.[/QUOTE]An addict choses to use the first time or first few times, then once hooked they as you said [B]"HAVE to Use"[/B]. My point is they can and must choose not to use if they want to get clean. No matter what [B]ANYONE[/B] says or does to try and stop an addict from using, they will continue to "have to use" until they finally make the choice to stop. My deceased fiance came to me and said "I can't do this anymore, it's going to kill me and if I don't stop then I will die and I'm not ready to die". She made the [B]Choice to Stop[/B]. She did this even with all the pain she still had that caused her to start. The fear of death by using was greater than the other fears that she later learned to overcome and deal with. Once she was clean she always said. "I have one more relapse in me, but I don't have any more recoveries". Her cost of using finally had become greater than the pleasure or relief that using gave her.
Addicts don't choose to be addicts anymore than people with cancer choose to have cancer. Addiction is a disease not a choice. The only choice is finally believing that becoming clean is less painful than using. That is what I meant by choice. If they never choose to become clean then they will perish in a life of addiction. Many never make the choice to become clean.
Enablers come in all types. I was an enabler and made the choice to no longer enable. A2, I never thought you believed in enabling and you are right enabling is not murder. Enabling could be considered assisted suicide. Addicts don't choose to die but most realize that if they don't stop it will kill them. Many don't stop because they don't see death as something close to them or they don't care if they die. Many wish they were dead because the pain of using is so great and doesn't always relieve the pain that started them to use, thus that makes them wish they were dead.
Until the government, society and health care providers see addiction as a major cancer and treat it in the same urgency then addicts will always just be junkies to the main stream society and have few choices. Once again Addiction is a disease, not a choice!
I was wondering what can we do to assist these known addicts? Should I contact that particular provider & inform her I can't meet her until I know she has saught help? Just doing nothing seems wrong because someone else is certainly going to pay them repeated visits.
I met a provider over a year ago and simply adored the ground she walked on. Yeah, I broke the unwritten rule. I was green about the addiction problem then as well. As time passed I finally got the truth out of her. She felt I wouldn't see her anymore if I knew the truth. I tried my best to help her out. Eliminating the donations, but being there for her in other ways. Long story short she was put up in Uncles house for a stint. Once out she contacted me, I found out she was over 6 months sober and surprisingly doing well. I fear she might fall back though, contact has been patchy at best and I don't want to tempt her with donations.
The worst part is not knowing if you're enabling.
I was going to schedule a trip to Beauty land but after learning more I will pass.
And I thought the Prickyard was all about lashing out. Huh, lot of big hearts on this forum.
Well, unless you're a real estate agent, then it's a sad day for Canada. The wave of angry Hollywood elites who swore they'd move if Donald Trump were elected President, well, make sure you keep your promises. Make room for other people who appreciate what this country has to offer. I welcome ALL who want to come to America and make a better life for themselves, provided it's done through the proper channels. If you're a Democrat, Republican, independent, it doesn't matter, but have some fuhking pride in the place you call home. Whether you agree with it or not, it's still the greatest place to live on the planet. (A2 may dispute this, however).
If you're no longer happy here, call me and I'll drive you to the airport. God save the Canadians.
Side note; this comment isn't written to start a political discussion, it's intended to remind people to shut their pie holes and stop complaining about the things they don't like, all the while overlooking the things they do.
Kyussfan
[QUOTE=Burglar;3143508]I was wondering what can we do to assist these known addicts? Should I contact that particular provider & inform her I can't meet her until I know she has saught help? Just doing nothing seems wrong because someone else is certainly going to pay them repeated visits.
I met a provider over a year ago and simply adored the ground she walked on. Yeah, I broke the unwritten rule. I was green about the addiction problem then as well. As time passed I finally got the truth out of her. She felt I wouldn't see her anymore if I knew the truth. I tried my best to help her out. Eliminating the donations, but being there for her in other ways. Long story short she was put up in Uncles house for a stint. Once out she contacted me, I found out she was over 6 months sober and surprisingly doing well. I fear she might fall back though, contact has been patchy at best and I don't want to tempt her with donations.
The worst part is not knowing if you're enabling.
I was going to schedule a trip to Beauty land but after learning more I will pass.
And I thought the Prickyard was all about lashing out. Huh, lot of big hearts on this forum.[/QUOTE]Your heart is in the right place and most of us (well some j / k) are human and compassionate and want to help. It's human nature. We don't want to see anyone suffer especially someone that we care for. I have talked with so many parents that have had to do " the tough love " act. Which I think is harder on the person that is doing the tough love rather than the addict. This whole other world is a little different than that and I get that. I mean for every one person that decides not to enable a provider. 20 others will. It's a vicious ugly cycle. But like it's been said. They can only do the work. They have to want to get clean and sober and maintain that. It's unfortunate but there is nothing anyone can do unless they figure out that enough is enough. There are some amazing programs out there and people willing to help in any way they can but we can't force to do things they don't want to.
[QUOTE=Kyussfan;3143522]Well, unless you're a real estate agent, then it's a sad day for Canada. The wave of angry Hollywood elites who swore they'd move if Donald Trump were elected President, well, make sure you keep your promises. Make room for other people who appreciate what this country has to offer. I welcome ALL who want to come to America and make a better life for themselves, provided it's done through the proper channels. If you're a Democrat, Republican, independent, it doesn't matter, but have some fuhking pride in the place you call home. Whether you agree with it or not, it's still the greatest place to live on the planet. (A2 may dispute this, however).
If you're no longer happy here, call me and I'll drive you to the airport. God save the Canadians.
Side note; this comment isn't written to start a political discussion, it's intended to remind people to shut their pie holes and stop complaining about the things they don't like, all the while overlooking the things they do.
Kyussfan[/QUOTE]Preach it my brother! However, I want to offer one minor change. The pornstars who were offering the BJs can stay. I am currently making up fake press clippings to take to them and cash in before they see the real news.
Sincerely Signed,
The Sneakiest Prick in the Yard.
Burglar,
Unless you are in a position to get heavily involved, there is not a lot that you can do other than limiting / eliminating donations. You can offer to buy them food and necessities rather than cash but the benefits of that are limited as that just means it frees up cash from someone else that they see. Depending on your mindset that may atleast give you some peace of mind that you are not directly contributing. Or it may not.
When it comes to not seeing them until they have saught help, that is a touchy one. Many addicts will give stories of being clean. They will even have full stories to prove it. The reality is they have to choose to get clean for themselves. Most times this will also require a stay in rehab depending on how deep they are hooked. I too have had the situation of a provider I cared about deeply hiding the truth for fear I would write her off if the truth was known. Once the full truth is known, then the big heart and big head can be a support mechanism.
Sincerely Signed,
One of the Big Hearts in the Yard
P.S.- As I write this, I am thinking of the irony as a certain person who will remain unnamed claims that I am a terrible person and an enabler.
[QUOTE=Burglar;3143508]I was wondering what can we do to assist these known addicts? Should I contact that particular provider & inform her I can't meet her until I know she has saught help? Just doing nothing seems wrong because someone else is certainly going to pay them repeated visits.
I met a provider over a year ago and simply adored the ground she walked on. Yeah, I broke the unwritten rule. I was green about the addiction problem then as well. As time passed I finally got the truth out of her. She felt I wouldn't see her anymore if I knew the truth. I tried my best to help her out. Eliminating the donations, but being there for her in other ways. Long story short she was put up in Uncles house for a stint. Once out she contacted me, I found out she was over 6 months sober and surprisingly doing well. I fear she might fall back though, contact has been patchy at best and I don't want to tempt her with donations.
The worst part is not knowing if you're enabling.
I was going to schedule a trip to Beauty land but after learning more I will pass.
And I thought the Prickyard was all about lashing out. Huh, lot of big hearts on this forum.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Kyussfan;3143522]Well, unless you're a real estate agent, then it's a sad day for Canada. The wave of angry Hollywood elites who swore they'd move if Donald Trump were elected President, well, make sure you keep your promises. Make room for other people who appreciate what this country has to offer. I welcome ALL who want to come to America and make a better life for themselves, provided it's done through the proper channels. If you're a Democrat, Republican, independent, it doesn't matter, but have some fuhking pride in the place you call home. Whether you agree with it or not, it's still the greatest place to live on the planet. (A2 may dispute this, however).
If you're no longer happy here, call me and I'll drive you to the airport. God save the Canadians.
Side note; this comment isn't written to start a political discussion, it's intended to remind people to shut their pie holes and stop complaining about the things they don't like, all the while overlooking the things they do.
Kyussfan[/QUOTE]You do realize that this entire forum is based around activities that definitely fall OUTSIDE the current proper channels, right? Don't get me wrong. I'm all for selective reasoning.
[QUOTE=Burglar;3143508]I was wondering what can we do to assist these known addicts? Should I contact that particular provider & inform her I can't meet her until I know she has saught help? Just doing nothing seems wrong because someone else is certainly going to pay them repeated visits.
The worst part is not knowing if you're enabling.[/QUOTE]Absolutely the worst part is knowing or not knowing if you're enabling! It's such a fine line and really depends on the type of relationship, honest one, that you have with the addict. The first thing you have to do is establish boundaries. Things you will not do under any circumstances to enable the addict. Things the addict must not do, ask for or partake in. Those boundaries are your choice and should be carefully communicated to the addict that you will not cross them and if they cross them then you are there for them emotionally but can no longer help them until they make the choices that are so very difficult to make.
I once was with a heroin addict who I was driving into the city. She lived 40 minutes outside the city in a small town. She told me she needed me to drive her to her doctors offices to pick up some medical paperwork needed for her probation officer. Two thirds of the way there, she talked to someone on the phone and I could tell it was her pharmacist. I told her I would not take her anywhere other than the doctors office and back home, that I would not allow H in my car, she said ok. Long and short of the story is, she set up a meeting with her pharmacist outside the doctors medical building. I told her she had to make a choice. Get in the car before she met and let me take her back home or find her own way back home. She made her choice and I left her in a very bad part of town at 4 pm and it took her 8 hours to get home. She had spent all her money on her fix so no money in her pocket. She called me every name in the book for hours, told me how I didn't care and how could I have put her life in extreme danger by leaving her stranded there. My answer was simple. "I gave you options, you knew what my boundaries were, you made a choice. I did not leave you stranded, that was your choice. You had other choices".
Boundaries and choices. That is the difference between enabling and not enabling an addict. I suggest you attend some Nar-Anon meetings to help you sort through the decisions you need to make if you truly want to help your friend. Good luck with your choices.
[QUOTE=Mwdude;3143588]You do realize that this entire forum is based around activities that definitely fall OUTSIDE the current proper channels, right? Don't get me wrong. I'm all for selective reasoning.[/QUOTE]I most certainly do, and I'm not pushing any "It's my way or the highway" agenda to anyone. Hell, I was driving 70 in a 55 on my way to work this morning, as I always do, along with everyone else.
I've come to realize we're going to need the immigrants to fill the jobs left by the retired baby boomers, and to do the ones that the youth of American are too lazy to do. The average person in my industry now is 49, and there are no young people interested in doing what I do. Sad, since the financial rewards are proportionate to the amount of time and work that you want to put into it. Everyone takes the easy way out now, and then want to blame others for their shortcomings.
I'm sick of the Leonardo Dicaprio's ranting about how wasteful Americans are, while riding around in planes and limo's. As we've all discussed here before, what we're doing is frowned upon yes, but if we aren't involved in human trafficking, or enabling addicts, then I can't see where the real problem is. After all, the same ones who don't like us participating in the hobby are at their desk right now, cheating on their federal tax returns.
Lets all spend more time enjoying life, instead of pointing out what's wrong with it. Change the things that need changed, instead of telling the whole world about it.
I do find it ironic that I'm bitching about people bitching.
Peace, from the recently demoted to the 53rd biggest prick.
Kyussfan.
[QUOTE=Kyussfan;3143652]As we've all discussed here before, what we're doing is frowned upon yes, but if we aren't involved in human trafficking, or enabling addicts, then I can't see where the real problem is.
Peace, from the recently demoted to the 53rd biggest prick.[/QUOTE]It is the monger way of sharing the wealth. Much better than increased taxes. At least this way we get some pleasure out of the dollars no longer in our pocket. Maybe we can start a lobbyist group. Tax free payroll deductions going into a PSA (Pussy Savings Account). Of course any savings not spent at the end of the year would be forfeited. Ya right like that would happen! The name provider is henceforth appropriate. Of course they all already have their specialty.
Sincerely Signed,
The Biggest Prick in the Yard (and a fellow lobbyist)
P.S.- Glad to see your taking your demotion with class and no request for a recount.
I appreciate the words of wisdom Mmgeg, IndyGuy123 and FreckleFreak.
It's a real tight rope to traverse dealing with addiction and the mess it leaves behind.
[QUOTE=Burglar;3146366]I appreciate the words of wisdom Mmgeg, IndyGuy123 and FreckleFreak.
It's a real tight rope to traverse dealing with addiction and the mess it leaves behind.[/QUOTE]Life's too short.
Is that enough freckles for you?
[QUOTE=Untchbl;3148166]Is that enough freckles for you?[/QUOTE]I think that's chicken pox, actually.
[QUOTE=Untchbl;3148166]Is that enough freckles for you?[/QUOTE]This is number one! But send me her number and I will promise to count them all to double check.
Well I don't play a lot so I am not as experienced as many on this board, and you know who you are.
But as a human I will admit to having a soft heart and try to help those less fortunate.
So you meet a provider and you hit it off. You actually take her out as she does not have the resources to experience concerts and even a meal at a good restaurant. But then come the calls, I really need to do laundry and need some quarters and transportation. Or I paid the rent last week but I'm in a bind and can you help. Or I'm out of food and the dogs have no food and oh by the way can you give me 20 or 30 after taking her to the grocery store and stocking her shelves.
But at 64 you feel good because you helped someone.
But then you begin to think. And you realize maybe that you can't be a nice guy. Its a business relationship. As Charlie Scheen would say, you pay them to leave.
Just some thoughts from someone that has only connected with a few.
I pray for them and wanted to think maybe we could help and be friends, and yes still willing to pay for services that they provided. Don't believe in free lunches.
So do we become cold hard customers and take what we pay for.
Do we keep hoping that we find a provider that will treat us with the respect that we want to treat them with.
Hope to hear from the sages that have been around the block more than me.
Thanks.
Don.
[QUOTE=Videoxxman;3155125]Well I don't play a lot so I am not as experienced as many on this board, and you know who you are.
But as a human I will admit to having a soft heart and try to help those less fortunate.
So you meet a provider and you hit it off. You actually take her out as she does not have the resources to experience concerts and even a meal at a good restaurant. But then come the calls, I really need to do laundry and need some quarters and transportation. Or I paid the rent last week but I'm in a bind and can you help. Or I'm out of food and the dogs have no food and oh by the way can you give me 20 or 30 after taking her to the grocery store and stocking her shelves.
But at 64 you feel good because you helped someone.
But then you begin to think. And you realize maybe that you can't be a nice guy. Its a business relationship. As Charlie Scheen would say, you pay them to leave.
Just some thoughts from someone that has only connected with a few.
I pray for them and wanted to think maybe we could help and be friends, and yes still willing to pay for services that they provided. Don't believe in free lunches.
So do we become cold hard customers and take what we pay for.
Do we keep hoping that we find a provider that will treat us with the respect that we want to treat them with.
Hope to hear from the sages that have been around the block more than me.
Thanks.
Don.[/QUOTE]When you look at what our provider makes unless they are misusing their funds for drug addictions, gambling, shopping addictions or some other inappropriate use they shouldn't need to ask for laundry money, dog food rent or anything else except the extreme emergency that's not your daily or normal expenses. Even a provider that only sees one client a day the charges say $150 an hour is still making $600 a week they should be able to handle their groceries their utilities their rent etc. It's nice to help out but it's another thing to be taken advantage of and when you're getting unsolicited calls for assistance that's what's happening is you're being taken advantage of and or played. I've had friends that have helped me out but I've always also offered to pay them they may have refused but the offer was there and when I say friends I mean mongers. Several times on this board there have been posts about establish providers having a rough time of it or needing assistance for this reason or for that reason that really just don't make sense. Often times it's the same provider over and over. No monger should ever be getting calls for assistance unless there's been a true friendship that has been developed and a true friendship is not one where they only call you when they need something. And should you assist them they should be paying you back but they always say never lend anybody anything that you can't afford to consider a gift.
So yes you are paying them to leave but you are also paying them to leave you alone. If you want to see someone you have their number they should never have to solicit business from you because you know when you have the means and / or the inkling. Just my thoughts.
[QUOTE=Videoxxman;3155125]Well I don't play a lot so I am not as experienced as many on this board, and you know who you are. But as a human I will admit to having a soft heart and try to help those less fortunate.
So you meet a provider and you hit it off. You actually take her out as she does not have the resources to experience concerts and even a meal at a good restaurant. But then come the calls, I really need to do laundry and need some quarters and transportation. Or I paid the rent last week but I'm in a bind and can you help. Or I'm out of food and the dogs have no food and oh by the way can you give me 20 or 30 after taking her to the grocery store and stocking her shelves.
But at 64 you feel good because you helped someone. But then you begin to think. And you realize maybe that you can't be a nice guy. Its a business relationship. As Charlie Scheen would say, you pay them to leave.
So do we become cold hard customers and take what we pay for. Do we keep hoping that we find a provider that will treat us with the respect that we want to treat them with.
Hope to hear from the sages that have been around the block more than me.
Thanks. Don.[/QUOTE]Being a good part of Humanity does. Paying them to leave or to leave you alone is also ok for those that hold the hobby creed close to the vest and it doesn't mean you don't have a heart. You and I don't hold the creed close as well as many of my friends on this board. Experience only helps in discerning the difference between giving and being taken. Even then a monger with a good heart has a tough time walking that line. I have been taken and still put myself in those situations with regret at times.
I have a very good provider friend who got very upset with me one day and asked me why I continued to help addict providers who didn't give two shits about me. She said I was a better person than that and I deserved better. I listened to her words of wisdom and sought out some counseling. In many ways she was correct. My constant behavior of trying to change some addict providers behavior drove her crazy. She didn't understand why guys saw unreliable addict junkies when good, honest, reliable providers like her were around. My actions combined with many mongers choices of cheap addict providers made her think she might as well relapse so she can expand her market share by getting the low dollar prices so many on this board seek out. I am working on changing my behavior, partially do to her insight. What many on this board will not admit to is many of us have some type of addictive behavior. Some here are hard core sex addicts but don't see any Addiction in themselves. That is one of the reasons some hobbyist's enable a drug addict because the hobbyist is some type of an addict themselves.
I have learned that sometimes giving and helping is better if focused in other areas than some addict provider. I am trying to channel my humanity in a different way. It doesn't change me it only has changed my behavior and choices. I think I always tried to help turn the next addict provider into what I was able to help Autumn Skyy with in realizing her true potential. Her loss to humanity was my loss and even when she was alive I was always trying to give back. She understood that, but my choices and actions still frustrated her at times.
So Don, the only advice I can give is to set your boundaries. The boundaries you set are your choice. Hold to those boundaries. Make them clear to those you are extending a helping hand. Re-evaluate the boundaries based on real experiences. You can't change who you are but you can modify your behavior. If you become a cold hearted customer that only takes or gives what you pay for that is your choice and nobody can blame or criticize you. It only means that is the boundary you established, it doesn't change who you are.
[QUOTE=Sarag;3155200]When you look at what our provider makes unless they are misusing their funds for drug addictions, gambling, shopping addictions or some other inappropriate use they shouldn't need to ask for laundry money, dog food rent or anything else except the extreme emergency that's not your daily or normal expenses. Even a provider that only sees one client a day the charges say $150 an hour is still making $600 a week they should be able to handle their groceries their utilities their rent etc. It's nice to help out but it's another thing to be taken advantage of and when you're getting unsolicited calls for assistance that's what's happening is you're being taken advantage of and or played. I've had friends that have helped me out but I've always also offered to pay them they may have refused but the offer was there and when I say friends I mean mongers. Several times on this board there have been posts about establish providers having a rough time of it or needing assistance for this reason or for that reason that really just don't make sense. Often times it's the same provider over and over. No monger should ever be getting calls for assistance unless there's been a true friendship that has been developed and a true friendship is not one where they only call you when they need something. And should you assist them they should be paying you back but they always say never lend anybody anything that you can't afford to consider a gift.
So yes you are paying them to leave but you are also paying them to leave you alone. If you want to see someone you have their number they should never have to solicit business from you because you know when you have the means and / or the inkling. Just my thoughts.[/QUOTE]Well put and and your looking at untaxed dollars there. When you said that if they are helping then they should be paid back I think that is what most are hoping for. Lets say a high yield on their investment. Also I think that the addicted girls overlook the short comi gs of the guy who probably couldn't have a a regular, normal relationship. There are plenty of civy girls out there who could use help and would welcome a good man but mongers can't have a normal relationship, that's why they paying someone.
[QUOTE=Videoxxman;3155125]Well I don't play a lot so I am not as experienced as many on this board, and you know who you are.
But as a human I will admit to having a soft heart and try to help those less fortunate.
So you meet a provider and you hit it off. You actually take her out as she does not have the resources to experience concerts and even a meal at a good restaurant. But then come the calls, I really need to do laundry and need some quarters and transportation. Or I paid the rent last week but I'm in a bind and can you help. Or I'm out of food and the dogs have no food and oh by the way can you give me 20 or 30 after taking her to the grocery store and stocking her shelves.
But at 64 you feel good because you helped someone.
But then you begin to think. And you realize maybe that you can't be a nice guy. Its a business relationship. As Charlie Scheen would say, you pay them to leave.
Just some thoughts from someone that has only connected with a few.
I pray for them and wanted to think maybe we could help and be friends, and yes still willing to pay for services that they provided. Don't believe in free lunches.
So do we become cold hard customers and take what we pay for.
Do we keep hoping that we find a provider that will treat us with the respect that we want to treat them with.
Hope to hear from the sages that have been around the block more than me.
Thanks.
Don.[/QUOTE]You have to set some sort of boundary for yourself, and be honest with them what that is. I know 3 providers on here that if they called I would drop what I was doing and come help them. They are established, have never taken advantage of me, and they always try and pay me for the help. I don't take it, because I don't mind helping. But I have boundaries and they are all respectful. They text and call me, but never to ask for money. If they ask for something it is usually car repair work, which I have offered in the past and told them if they need to let me know. I have also been helped by them when I was in a bind, its called friendship.
Sara, mmgeg, and kitkat. 3 of the best.
[QUOTE=Untchbl;3155556]You have to set some sort of boundary for yourself, and be honest with them what that is. I know 3 providers on here that if they called I would drop what I was doing and come help them. They are established, have never taken advantage of me, and they always try and pay me for the help. I don't take it, because I don't mind helping. But I have boundaries and they are all respectful. They text and call me, but never to ask for money. If they ask for something it is usually car repair work, which I have offered in the past and told them if they need to let me know. I have also been helped by them when I was in a bind, its called friendship.
Sara, mmgeg, and kitkat. 3 of the best.[/QUOTE]I agree with Untchbl. You have to have guidelines! Most of us in this hobby, care about people. I too, have helped out a provider at times, and did not expect anything in return. But it's important that you THINK with the head on your shoulders, rather than the head between your legs. Some times that's easier said than done! Be resonabe, and be safe!
Lauda1978.
[QUOTE=Untchbl;3155556]
Sara, mmgeg, and kitkat. 3 of the best.[/QUOTE]How true that is my friend, how true.
[QUOTE=NightOwl14;3156846]Anyway, she texts me once in a while asking for help. Ordinarily I would just give an excuse as to why I couldn't meet, but this weekend, I decided to see her again. Everything was like before. Friendly, good at what she does, and never watches the clock. I was probably there about 2 hours talking and watching TV after things were completed. Damage was seven Jacksons like before. The only change is that she has an incall at a rather decent hotel on the NE side. Did not see any evidence of anyone staying there other than her (no guy's clothes, shoes, etc). Says she is trying to get clean, and is going to the clinic daily (this is probably where you dropped her off the other day, Cactaur). Of course with most providers that are dealing with addiction issues, you can take that with a grain of salt, as their plans tend to change weekly, if not daily. As for me, I will probably repeat, and follow the same cautions I mentioned above. I would appreciate anyone else's feedback, if you care to share.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Hoosier69;3155891]The game warden was on the phone checking for our license and the make and model of our fishing boat. I'm glad I heard him asking for it loud and clear while I was talking to [URL]http://carfun.com.indianapolis.hoxnif.com/post/19143230/[/URL].
It distracted me enough to keep from stepping on that hornets nest, I would have been stung pretty badly. Those hornets took off after me when the warden couldn't make out my permit, I tell ya, I think I'm done fishing in that pond for a long time.[/QUOTE]There used to be a time when the hobby code among mongers was fairly clear, but the H epidemic has presented a plethora of cheap pussy now advertising on BP. Jasmine, Leslie and the one Hoosier69 discusses in the SW thread are just an example of some. I have presented warnings on a couple of others recently. Two who robbed mongers by gunpoint "Southern" and "Jazz". The other higher than a weather balloon "Young and Sexy". Hoosier69's fishing trip almost gone bad is a mongers worst nightmare. So here is the quandary. As NightOwl says [B]Their plans tend to change weekly, if not daily[/B] so who will be the next monger that steps into a [B][red]Change of Plans[/red][/B]. Hoosier almost did. One of you will. Both Jasmine and Leslie have scammed and robbed in the past. Their past actions hasn't stopped those of you who like the service and like the cheap pussy. I have learned that the old hobby code among mongers no longer exists, the code that once some monger (s) are screwed by a provider, she is banned. Most followed this code in the past but once again the plethora of cheap pussy mainly driven by the H epidemic has made little heads out think the big heads.
I have discussed this many times with a good friend on here and as he said many past providers, even some of the good ones, have always had some type of addiction issue. He is correct but the difference is the addiction was normally pills or alcohol related and not the mainstream drugs such as Meth, Crack or H. These drugs drive addicts to the point of doing anything to get there next fix. Depending on their situation, the extent of their withdrawl symptoms, their need for a fix, their BF's or any other excuse they [B]WILL[/B] "Change Their Plans". So the next time you visit a Jasmine ask her about the time a monger paid for her phone bill and methadone with promises of services and was later told to fuck off and threatened by her supposed Uncle. Ask her about the monger that went to see her at a weekly pay hotel, paid her, then BF came in stopped the session and kicked out the monger by force. Ask Leslie about the monger (s) that were robbed by her BF. These all were "Changes in Their Plans".
So I have realized the monger code is dead and I have come to terms with that. So here is my advice. Treat them as they are, Streetwalkers with a smart phone who can place ads on BP. Pay them to fuck, to leave and to leave you alone, nothing more. Don't drive them anywhere, don't help them out, don't befriend them. The most important thing is don't think they care two shits about you other than the $$ you give them because once their [B][red]Plans Change[/red][/B] then you will be the next victim or it's possible you might get lucky like Hoosier69 did.
NG,
If you want to be a dick and try to make guys jealous at least do it in the right spot and not under the reviews. Not blaming you for doing it though!
[QUOTE=Niceguy52;3157402]Not sure how many of you guys remember Nikkita from Hotfriends (no longer active), but Thursday I got a call from her. She must have kept my number for many years. She told me she was coming to Indy for a few days and wanted to know if she could stay with me. Of course, duh! I saw her many times from hotfriends then we became fwb's. Anyway picked her up at the airport early Friday morning, Damn she was hot as ever. How I missed that raspy voice. Went downtown for shopping and lunch. Then back to my place. She unpacked. Came out to the living room and watched tv for awhile. She sat next to me and started kissing me. She reached for Johnson and asked if I was ready. Wow she is better than ever. She is still here, will leave Wednesday morning. She is not escorting anymore, so don't ask. Great time with her.[/QUOTE]Sincerely Signed,
The Biggest Prick in the Yard.
P.S.-Thanks to my elf for the new ornament.
[QUOTE=IndyGuy123;3157748]
P.S.-Thanks to my elf for the new ornament.[/QUOTE]I always heard your balls were big, and now you got to go and prove it.
Who's jealous now, NG?
And speaking about Christmas, I've often wondered why Santa Claus yelled "ho ho ho" as he flew past my last 3 girlfriends.
Just for the sake of humoring this, I am going to respond as if (like Ilapp already said) you are not likely the provider herself or someone directly affiliated with her.
I am sure this young lady would never fall under the category of ladies to watch out for. She has not: A) Been popped multiple times. B) Posted BP ads trading services for illicit pharmaceuticals or specific pharmaceuticals that are used by addicts. C) Has not wrote many incoherent BP ads that have been so bad that they were even linked to this forum as a joke. D) Has been linked with staying and seeing the occasional client that sees her on a good day at one of the worst hotels in the city. E) Had multiple reports of C&D on this forum. F) Was working together with one of the most notable H addicts in the hobby this year. G) Has not been linked to ads where a documented sting occured and multiple mongers were popped.
If I wanted to go on, I believe I could at least make it to the second half of the alphabet.
If by some form of imagination, you are not her or affiliated with her, you may want to research the forums better and take a good look at the selections you are making.
[QUOTE=FreckleFreak;3155459]The below provider has been reviewed before and is in the Ripoff Thread. Beware of scams, cash and dash. Multiple visits with Uncle.
[URL]http://indianapolis.backpage.com/FemaleEscorts/wheres-my-people-at-hmu-3179937415/16460287[/URL][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Mikeoxlong317;3157236]Totally not true. I've seen her a lot actually. She has reviews in other sites. Phone number is also 317XXX4272 (that is reviewed number) but not sure that one works. She changed it to 317XXX7415. She does not even have an uncle? I asked her after I seen this thread. She is however legit and May be you should read up on her before posting beware. She is an absolute sweetheart and a MUST see![/QUOTE]Sincerely Signed,
The Biggest Prick in the Yard.
[QUOTE=IndyGuy123;3157767]Just for the sake of humoring this, I am going to respond as if (like Ilapp already said) you are not likely the provider herself or someone directly affiliated with her.
I am sure this young lady would never fall under the category of ladies to watch out for. She has not: A) Been popped multiple times. B) Posted BP ads trading services for illicit pharmaceuticals or specific pharmaceuticals that are used by addicts. C) Has not wrote many incoherent BP ads that have been so bad that they were even linked to this forum as a joke. D) Has been linked with staying and seeing the occasional client that sees her on a good day at one of the worst hotels in the city. E) Had multiple reports of C&D on this forum. F) Was working together with one of the most notable H addicts in the hobby this year. G) Has not been linked to ads where a documented sting occured and multiple mongers were popped.
If I wanted to go on, I believe I could at least make it to the second half of the alphabet.
If by some form of imagination, you are not her or affiliated with her, you may want to research the forums better and take a good look at the selections you are making.
Sincerely Signed,
The Biggest Prick in the Yard.[/QUOTE]She is so fricking hot I can overlook a few little flaws. C'Mon. Man!