"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

Thanks for the heads up but anyone falling for a scam this lame shouldn't be on the internet at all. "Starting the arrest process"? Right cause LE always calls up people they're about to arrest. The whole thing reads like one red flag after another.

[QUOTE=YayaGogo;3712441]Just to let you all know, some scammers have recently tried to target me with the underage girl scam. Don't fall for it!

- 18 should be young enough for anyone on this board. Going younger will permanently alter your entire life as you know it.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=YayaGogo;3712441]Just to let you all know, some scammers have recently tried to target me with the underage girl scam. Don't fall for it!

Here's how it worked: An over 18 account is set up on SA which they then use to message you and move it on to text. While texting they try to get a pic from you and your name. The girl eventually sends private pics unsolicited, at which point I asked her to confirm her age. She says she's almost 17 but really into older guys yada yada. I say not interested, report her account and block her number. The next day I get a text from her 'dad' from another number saying he's going to get me arrested for child porn and to call him immediately. I'm aware of the scam and I ignore him. Later in the day I get a voicemail from a 'sheriff' in another state saying they're starting the arrest process and I should call him back immediately (to a number not matching the caller I'd) to tell my side of the story and to settle this. I googled the number on the caller I'd which was spoofed from an actual LE office in another state to make it look official, so I call back at the official number (not at the alternate number left in the VM) I ask to speak to the sheriff by name and it's a different guy that has no idea what I'm talking about. He tells me it's a very common scam on internet dating sites and such. The 'father' then texts me later on in the day saying his daughter got suspended from school and I'll be arrested if I don't speak with him, at which point I tell him I'm aware it's a scam and that LE is very interested in meeting with him and his 'daughter'. Never heard back after that but it occurred to me that some of you might be also targets of this scam and might not know what to do.

Remember:

- Use either a burner phone, GV, or both for SA communications. Scammers will cross reference your number with social media apps to find out all about you.

- Don't use your real name for SA if you can avoid it.

- Even if the age of consent in your state is 16 or 17, it's still illegal to send / receive nude pics from minors and you will be prosecuted if the complaint is legitimate.

- If someone is trying to scam you for money, don't engage them and they'll eventually go away.

- No LE will ever encourage you to 'settle' a crime for money.

- 18 should be young enough for anyone on this board. Going younger will permanently alter your entire life as you know it.[/QUOTE]Recommendations for burner phone would be appreciated Thanks CM.

[QUOTE=YayaGogo;3712441]Just to let you all know, some scammers have recently tried to target me with the underage girl scam. Don't fall for it!

Remember:

- Use either a burner phone, GV, or both for SA communications. Scammers will cross reference your number with social media apps to find out all about you.

- Don't use your real name for SA if you can avoid it.

- Even if the age of consent in your state is 16 or 17, it's still illegal to send / receive nude pics from minors and you will be prosecuted if the complaint is legitimate.

- If someone is trying to scam you for money, don't engage them and they'll eventually go away.

- No LE will ever encourage you to 'settle' a crime for money.

- 18 should be young enough for anyone on this board. Going younger will permanently alter your entire life as you know it.[/QUOTE]I've seen this scam on CL. I always ask for age. If they tell me 18 I continue the conversation as there is no way for me to know. If I am suspicious on a meet I ask for ID. I'm too old and wise to fall for thi sshit. But it's out there. I'm sure some guys fall for it otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3711645]I've written about this in the past, but I've found their relationship with their father has almost everything to do with what makes them want to date older men, and like you I try to find out family history early on because it helps me understand them, and that's good for both of us. They usually don't mind spilling the beans about this, and most of them seem pretty in touch with what made them who they are.

The most common scenario I encounter is "absent daddy syndrome" -- dad wasn't a part of their lives for whatever reason, or maybe he was a part of their lives but did not fully participate the way a father should. I'd say that's maybe 70-80%.

Second most common scenario is "tough act to follow daddy syndrome". The father spoiled his princess to such a degree that she will settle for no less than an older man who spoils, protects and provides for her as a partner.

Third scenario, and this is getting much rarer, like maybe 2-5% of the girls, is "super hard working underachieving Dad". This is not the same as family neglect through workaholism, that's still absent daddy syndrome. This is the dad that has a great work ethic and family ethic, but never really got ahead in life. Provides for his family, but never quite achieved any level of financial "comfort" for his family (had trouble keeping up with the Joneses).[/QUOTE]Understanding this and some other principles of human psychology at our age should be able to coerce these young ladies. It's not rocket science. Learn to read people.

[QUOTE=EvilTmp;3712508]Thanks for the heads up but anyone falling for a scam this lame shouldn't be on the internet at all. "Starting the arrest process"? Right cause LE always calls up people they're about to arrest. The whole thing reads like one red flag after another.[/QUOTE]Henrico called me to tell me they were issuing an arrest warrant. Told me I had till lunch time the next day to turn myself in or they'll send the Sheriff to my house to get me. Rare perhaps, but it does happen.

[QUOTE=FruitNinja;3713170]Understanding this and some other principles of human psychology at our age should be able to coerce these young ladies. It's not rocket science. Learn to read people.[/QUOTE]Yes, as Neil Strauss used to say, "game" is really just a specialization of social skills that happens to place the focus on relationships with women. For me it's not about manipulation or coercion -- getting women to do what I want them to do has never been challenging for me. I just like doing things with a clear conscience. Even though I'm effectively sport fucking, with no intention of long-standing relationships with any of these women, I'm a strong believer that there is a way to play the game without anyone getting hurt, and ideally in a way that actually leaves her life in better shape than I found it. I think that understanding their background and what makes them tick helps me to help them.

Occasionally I encounter an arrogant SB that think they have life all figured out and don't want advice (in which case I don't bother), but I've found the vast majority do want a mentor, someone to look up to, someone to help them navigate a complicated world during their early stages of life. Like I said, ADS (Absent Daddy Syndrome) is the primary culprit here. The ones who never had a strong male figure that cared about whether they succeed or went sideways, or at least never earned their respect, are the ones who are most hungry for mentorship. So, if I learn that her reasons for seeking a daddy are different from this (and maybe 20% or so of the time they are), I usually adjust all of my interactions with her accordingly.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3710655]I have actually been holding back on writing about my latest findings in the sugar world, partially because I think some of them are hard to describe without either alienating some of the audience, newcomers, or just giving the impression that I'm full of shit.

On my latest traveling-sugar binge, I did things a bit differently than I have in the past. I noticed in a LOT of profiles in various cities, many girls in the pool of SBs that I would go after are increasingly posting their interest in an arrangement that turns into a relationship, so I had an idea. What would happen if I invested a bit of time REALLY talking to each one, pouring on the game and charm, then telling them that my interest in them is way beyond the shallow confines of sugar? In line with the number you quoted above, somewhere between 6-7 out of 10 of these girls agreed to no-allowance dating (assuming we like each other at the meet)! We hear some folks say that free pussy is rare in the sugar world, I did not find this to be the case at all. Is it rare for the married guy who only wants a couple of hours in a hotel with her? Sure...it would be nearly impossible to get her to agree to do this without allowance. But what if I truly approach it the same as civy dating? What if, when I visit the girl I spend somewhere between 2-5 days with her and treat it as if I'm courting her? When I'm traveling, this is not that difficult for me to do, because when I communicate with the SO it's usually in text anyway, no need to disrupt my dating activities to answer her call and tell her how much I miss her.

Well long story short, I got a lot of "free" (or in reality very close to it) pussy. I say close to it, because in all cases I did gift something -- not because it's required but because it is important to me to establish that emotional separation, and make sure that they see me more a provider of material support than emotional support. However, the average gift came out to under $200 per overnighter date -- probably $150 on average. Not just overnighter but random afternoon fucks throughout the day in many cases. Now I did spend quite a bit on entertainment, but a lot of that was my own indulgence and certainly something I wanted to do. This is why I don't feel like dinner or dating expenses count when tallying up the total cost -- because she is not merely extracting money from me for her own gain, she is simply enjoying my company doing the same things I do (eat good food and drink etc), and therefore it's just a normal dating expense, in my mind at least. It's amazing how many of these girls just appreciate a good time and an escape from their otherwise dull lives!

Now the bad (and this is what you alluded to as well). It is pretty much impossible to do the above without expecting some clingers! All of the ones that I went overnight with did become somewhat clingy. I had one that was particularly memorable -- I stayed an entire workweek with her, and I think we fucked 15-16 times during that period, she was probably one of the more prolific nymphos I've ever met. She very quickly dismissed the idea of receiving allowance, and told me I was more of a "normal dating find" for her than what she expected in an SD, and yes when someone half your age says that, and is fucking your brains out, it does stroke your ego a bit and it's kind of hard to just pack up the suitcases and say goodbye. By day three she claims she loved me and I pretended like she never said it. She was already making all these delusional future plans for us, I mostly just bit my lip and tried to enjoy the eye candy and sex and just let on like I'm not really thinking too far in the future yet. And yes, the more resistent you are to her advances, the more she can sense it and the more of a turn on and challenge it is for her, so she keeps trying. A few times she exhibited nutty behaviors I would describe as bipolar symptoms, getting instantly furious at me for small things, random triggered, then letting her anger dissipate in a matter of seconds and returning to normal. I'm also aware that she was taking meds for some of her issues, meds that specifically warn against mixing with alcohol, yet she was doing it anyway. After I left, it took a few days to fully get rid of her, but I should be in the clear on that one as long as no paternity bullshit arises (I never use condoms). I really think 2-3 days with a girl is the maximum I want to go in the future after my recent experience. She was sad about the break up for a few days, but seems okay now and I'm sure she has probably already invoked her magical (bipolar) powers on another SD out there by now.

Bottom line is, there is something to be said for making sure that allowance or a financial arrangement is standing between you and any emotional expectation of the girl. They are human, and if they are truly attracted to their SD (which most true SBs probably are), they are quite prone to becoming attached. I think I made it worse this time by deemphasizing the financial aspect of arrangement and encouraging them to look past money even before the first M&G.

On the flip side, if I had just stuck to 18-20 year olds, I probably would not have had this problem. Its mostly the 24+ year olds that have started really thinking about their future, decided that they want a stable provider first and foremost, and if you are unmarried and have no kids (or they think you are), then you are a prime target for them. It then becomes a game of trying to have as much fun as possible without trampling on anyone's feelings or worsening the struggles that they already have. I always aim to leave them in better shape than I met them, whatever that means. I'm not sure I always succeed, but I do try.[/QUOTE]I would say about half my babies ended up not really wanting an allowance or much of an allowance and usually fairly quickly into things. For the record, I am near 50 years of age, but like you, have been a fitness guru all my life and could likely pass for 36-38 in most all cases. I was into bodybuilding for years and have a psychic most 20-somethings might envy. Most girls are shocked when my clothes come off and will say things like, and get visibly excited "WTF, I get to fuck a real man, your so sexy, you're older, but like one of those super hot older guys I've fantasized about, you're biggest and strongest guy over been with (not my dick, my body, although that ain't small either. Haha) just random comments every time. It pays to keep yourself up in this game. My real downside is alcohol. I like to drink with these girls and lower both mine and their inhibitions. Better sex, more open, more fun anything goes once they and I are buzzed and for the past few years, I've been drinking a bit excessively because of this. But you know what? There are worse things in life. I never do drugs and I figure this is my one vise.

As for the crazies, I'm working with one who has her PhD. Smart as fuck, but also borderline personality disorder, sees a shrink all week and is legit insane. I have tried to help this girl, but she is not fixable, just a total lost cause, but she is so so so fun in the sack when her insanity does come out with sex. She is open for everything and loves being submissive. Again, I would say most of these girls are at the very lest unstable or they wouldn't be there. That said, it is true, the more crazy, the better the sex and nothing has rang more true in the bowl.

I have made many mistakes in the bowl and cost myself some serious grief over the years, but I would not trade my overall experiences for anything.

[QUOTE=CandyMan555;3712929]Recommendations for burner phone would be appreciated Thanks CM.[/QUOTE]Not sure what the deals are now, but a couple of years ago, bought a small-med smart phone for $30 from MetroPCS and got a plan that was $30/ month: 1 Gig 4 GLTEe and unlimited 3 GLTE after that. Unlimited talk, text too. For a hobby phone that is fine, never get into the 3 G speed and it wouldn't matter anyway. There are about 12 stores around my area so I stop in a different one each month on a random basis and fork over $30 cash for the minutes. One can buy cards at Walmart, but Wally charges a 1. 95 fee or something. Then you have to enter a LONG string of digits or call. So it is easier to just stop in & pay cash.

Lots of girls have Cricket, so that must be a cheap option. Years ago there were chick-let phones and you bought cards for the minutes at 25-cents a minute. WAY too expensive and the minutes expire after a month or two.

You don't need all of the features, so a stripped down basic phone model is what to look for.

Oh and don't forget to layer Google Voice on top of that!

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3713590]Not sure what the deals are now, but a couple of years ago, bought a small-med smart phone for $30 from MetroPCS and got a plan that was $30/ month: 1 Gig 4 GLTEe and unlimited 3 GLTE after that. Unlimited talk, text too. For a hobby phone that is fine, never get into the 3 G speed and it wouldn't matter anyway. There are about 12 stores around my area so I stop in a different one each month on a random basis and fork over $30 cash for the minutes. One can buy cards at Walmart, but Wally charges a 1. 95 fee or something. Then you have to enter a LONG string of digits or call. So it is easier to just stop in & pay cash.

Lots of girls have Cricket, so that must be a cheap option. Years ago there were chick-let phones and you bought cards for the minutes at 25-cents a minute. WAY too expensive and the minutes expire after a month or two.

You don't need all of the features, so a stripped down basic phone model is what to look for.

Oh and don't forget to layer Google Voice on top of that![/QUOTE]I have a TracFone smartphone I bought at Walmart, Target, somesuch, for cash. Made by ZTE, whatever that is. I have apps on it, like kik (very popular these days), snapchat, hotelsbyday. It is an Android phone, cost about $30. The good thing is that you can establish a TracFone account on the web w / your sugar name and manage the phone. That includes putting more minutes or texts or MB on the phone. Unlike buying a card in a 7-11, which has a stiff tax in California, I have been able to buy texts with just a prepaid OneVanilla debit card (1000 texts for $5). I had one of these before, then had to be out of the bowl for a while, ditched my old one. I get the new one, initialize it with the old phone #, and all my credit is still there. This seems pretty foolproof. I'd appreciate pointers from anyone who knows a lot about Android as to how to do other bowl tricks wt / the phone.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3714947]I have a TracFone smartphone I bought at Walmart, Target, somesuch, for cash. Made by ZTE, whatever that is. I have apps on it, like kik (very popular these days), snapchat, hotelsbyday. It is an Android phone, cost about $30. The good thing is that you can establish a TracFone account on the web w / your sugar name and manage the phone. That includes putting more minutes or texts or MB on the phone. Unlike buying a card in a 7-11, which has a stiff tax in California, I have been able to buy texts with just a prepaid OneVanilla debit card (1000 texts for $5). I had one of these before, then had to be out of the bowl for a while, ditched my old one. I get the new one, initialize it with the old phone #, and all my credit is still there. This seems pretty foolproof. I'd appreciate pointers from anyone who knows a lot about Android as to how to do other bowl tricks wt / the phone.[/QUOTE]I either use a google voice number. It's an app that you can get a number for. Costs $0. You can make and get calls, send texts, not sure how to send images but I haven't spent the time to figure a bug out. I'm sure it's simple.

I have a biz phone and a personal phone so I a lot of times give them my personal. What are they going to do. I'm not married. I check age. I don't talk $$.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3713411]I've found the vast majority do want a mentor, someone to look up to, someone to help them navigate a complicated world during their early stages of life. Like I said, ADS (Absent Daddy Syndrome) is the primary culprit here. The ones who never had a strong male figure that cared about whether they succeed or went sideways, or at least never earned their respect, are the ones who are most hungry for mentorship. So, if I learn that her reasons for seeking a daddy are different from this (and maybe 20% or so of the time they are), I usually adjust all of my interactions with her accordingly.[/QUOTE]Another example of this. Girls who were adopted. I know a number of psychologists, and they say that being adopted is something most people never get over. It's a very visceral thing to know that your birth parents 'didn't want you', though of course there are many reasons for parents to give a baby up for adoption. For example, I met a POT today. I found her on a site called Pantydeal, it is mostly for girls to sell pics / vids / panties, but they can check off 'escort'. This 19 YO mixed college girl turned out to be local so we did the M&G this morning. I already knew she was smart and mature, but today she mentions both she and her sib were adopted. After the tea, sitting in my car, I ask her about liking 'her man to be in charge in the bedroom', and she readily agreed. A little more chit-chat and I give her a test. I ask her to kiss me, and she readily digs in. IK now this girl has all the makings of a great SB, she'll be submissive and love it. No discussion of allowance, I always defer that as long as possible.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3717046]Another example of this. Girls who were adopted. I know a number of psychologists, and they say that being adopted is something most people never get over. It's a very visceral thing to know that your birth parents 'didn't want you', though of course there are many reasons for parents to give a baby up for adoption. For example, I met a POT today. I found her on a site called Pantydeal, it is mostly for girls to sell pics / vids / panties, but they can check off 'escort'. This 19 YO mixed college girl turned out to be local so we did the M&G this morning. I already knew she was smart and mature, but today she mentions both she and her sib were adopted. After the tea, sitting in my car, I ask her about liking 'her man to be in charge in the bedroom', and she readily agreed. A little more chit-chat and I give her a test. I ask her to kiss me, and she readily digs in. IK now this girl has all the makings of a great SB, she'll be submissive and love it. No discussion of allowance, I always defer that as long as possible.[/QUOTE]I agree with the delaying of the sugar talk as long as possible. I am seeing a smaller bbw single 40 yr old right now that we have never discussed any type of allowance but she has never mentioned the $$ I give her each time, which I always put in her purse where she can see it. We usually do dinner and / or some light shopping and then to the FC where she has spent the night twice. Very responsive and really seems to enjoy our time together.

Hey guys,

I posted this on Boston but there is more activity here, I'm new to posting here but I've browsed this site quite a bit over the last few years. I joined SA a few months ago and have had no problem meeting or talking to women on there. Some of the women I've met or talked to were semi-pros so everything was pretty straight forward with the negotiation. Early on I came across a divorced mom who was crept out by the thought of taking any money. Things have sort of run their course with her and I've been searching again. I know its rare that you find someone on there that doesn't want anything aside from having a good time and being treated nice, and I am afraid I'm ruined with my next negotiation. I met a new woman who is in an open relationship and apparently her husband is fine with it and having his fun as well. We've met for a very quick coffee and had lunch. At the end of lunch the discussion of money came up so I started where I always start around $$ and mentioned in the past that I've never really had a detailed conversation about dollar amounts (partly true) and if we don't discuss money I normally just put $$ in a card and have never had complaints. I could tell by her body language that she isn't interested in being in that range but she refuses to say what she is looking for. Normally I would just move on but we hit it off and she is incredibly attractive with what I would say is a 9 face and 10 body. Needless to say while this is not my first rodeo I feel like I need some help from those of you who have more experience. I was interested in trying SA because I was getting tired with the pros and constantly checking to see who was in town every week and if it lined up with my schedule.

Any and all suggestions are greatly appreciated!

[QUOTE=Ganzi;3717903]Hey guys,

I posted this on Boston but there is more activity here, I'm new to posting here but I've browsed this site quite a bit over the last few years. I joined SA a few months ago and have had no problem meeting or talking to women on there. Some of the women I've met or talked to were semi-pros so everything was pretty straight forward with the negotiation. Early on I came across a divorced mom who was crept out by the thought of taking any money. Things have sort of run their course with her and I've been searching again. I know its rare that you find someone on there that doesn't want anything aside from having a good time and being treated nice, and I am afraid I'm ruined with my next negotiation. I met a new woman who is in an open relationship and apparently her husband is fine with it and having his fun as well. We've met for a very quick coffee and had lunch. At the end of lunch the discussion of money came up so I started where I always start around $$ and mentioned in the past that I've never really had a detailed conversation about dollar amounts (partly true) and if we don't discuss money I normally just put $$ in a card and have never had complaints. I could tell by her body language that she isn't interested in being in that range but she refuses to say what she is looking for. Normally I would just move on but we hit it off and she is incredibly attractive with what I would say is a 9 face and 10 body. Needless to say while this is not my first rodeo I feel like I need some help from those of you who have more experience. I was interested in trying SA because I was getting tired with the pros and constantly checking to see who was in town every week and if it lined up with my schedule.

Any and all suggestions are greatly appreciated![/QUOTE]If you want lots of tips on how to get them to the FC without ever talking about money up front, just search on all the posts for my user-name in this thread. It will take a bit of reading because many of the posts are detailed, but I've posted tons of tips here.

During my last sugaring vacation I did some experimenting, everything from seeing how many girls I could get to agree to date me no sugar at all before the M&G even happened, to also seeing how they react to various low ball offers combined with different personality tactics. I got lots of girls that agreed to free, or in some cases much lower than they ever planned on going when they joined SA I'm sure.

One sent me a nice video clip of her masturbating, asked me how much her allowance was going to be when we met. I said "a hundred bucks if we stay overnight" experimentally, but before I did I spent probably a couple of hours of back and forth texts getting her warmed up and invested in knowing me a bit. When I texted the amount I thought I lost her because about 15 minutes went by with no response. Then she said "Hmmm. Would it be okay if we started out with two hundred per visit?" And I said no, and that I was going to put her over my knee and give her a firm spanking for questioning daddy's decision. That sent her over the edge (in a good way) and triggered something in her that made her want me even more! She said she will love anything daddy gives her. LOL. She later said she didn't care what I give anything is fine. Oddly enough I never met her, simply because I had a list of higher priority POTS, but I think I should drive 1. 5 hours to meet her one of these days, I do text her occasionally and she is still eager to meet.

My point here is that she just happened to be one of those who are attracted to dominance, so the idea of spanking her little ass for attempting to negotiate with me was a huge turn on for her.

So you might try telling them how it is going to be -- it won't work on all of them, but you can always back off a little if you see it isn't working. You will lose a few but often they are the ones you want to lose anyway. Also sometimes when you exert dominance, their initial reaction is to run away, but a lot of them realize that's what they want later and come crawling back for another try.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3717046]Another example of this. Girls who were adopted. I know a number of psychologists, and they say that being adopted is something most people never get over. It's a very visceral thing to know that your birth parents 'didn't want you', though of course there are many reasons for parents to give a baby up for adoption. For example, I met a POT today. I found her on a site called Pantydeal, it is mostly for girls to sell pics / vids / panties, but they can check off 'escort'. This 19 YO mixed college girl turned out to be local so we did the M&G this morning. I already knew she was smart and mature, but today she mentions both she and her sib were adopted. After the tea, sitting in my car, I ask her about liking 'her man to be in charge in the bedroom', and she readily agreed. A little more chit-chat and I give her a test. I ask her to kiss me, and she readily digs in. IK now this girl has all the makings of a great SB, she'll be submissive and love it. No discussion of allowance, I always defer that as long as possible.[/QUOTE]Sometimes I think we should start an alternative thread to discuss possible alternative methods of finding SBs. There have been some good posts here in the past, but those conversations are never easy to find unless indexed. It would be great to know all the things SDs do to find SBs off the beaten path.

One of my favorites is to go SB shopping at strip clubs. These girls are usually fascinated by the idea, and its not uncommon for it to result in takeout that night, or a phone number for another night etc. A lot of them tell me they already had a profile on SA at one time but just didn't find what they were looking for. The reason I like doing this with strippers is that I can see and talk to them first (no worries about catfish or inordinately flattering selfies) so its very time efficient. The only downside is that some of them may expect you to spend a lot of money on them right there in the club if you're an SD, which I personally don't like to do.

Question about Pantydeal -- did the site give you an indication where she was geographically before you contacted her? The first thing that came to my mind (since I'm usually sugaring in select cities) is how do I see the ones within a given travel radius of a particular city? Without that kind of search ability, it would eat up tons of my time.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;3713546]I would say about half my babies ended up not really wanting an allowance or much of an allowance and usually fairly quickly into things. For the record, I am near 50 years of age, but like you, have been a fitness guru all my life and could likely pass for 36-38 in most all cases. I was into bodybuilding for years and have a psychic most 20-somethings might envy. Most girls are shocked when my clothes come off and will say things like, and get visibly excited "WTF, I get to fuck a real man, your so sexy, you're older, but like one of those super hot older guys I've fantasized about, you're biggest and strongest guy over been with (not my dick, my body, although that ain't small either. Haha) just random comments every time. It pays to keep yourself up in this game. My real downside is alcohol. I like to drink with these girls and lower both mine and their inhibitions. Better sex, more open, more fun anything goes once they and I are buzzed and for the past few years, I've been drinking a bit excessively because of this. But you know what? There are worse things in life. I never do drugs and I figure this is my one vise.

As for the crazies, I'm working with one who has her PhD. Smart as fuck, but also borderline personality disorder, sees a shrink all week and is legit insane. I have tried to help this girl, but she is not fixable, just a total lost cause, but she is so so so fun in the sack when her insanity does come out with sex. She is open for everything and loves being submissive. Again, I would say most of these girls are at the very lest unstable or they wouldn't be there. That said, it is true, the more crazy, the better the sex and nothing has rang more true in the bowl.

I have made many mistakes in the bowl and cost myself some serious grief over the years, but I would not trade my overall experiences for anything.[/QUOTE]I've met some that I didn't see any signs of emotional instability in, but they all definitely have a reason for being in the bowl, and at least in the case of the ones I meet, money is typically not the primary motivator.

It's funny because it seems that SB supply is independent of economic conditions. I've always heard mongers (which I'm not one of. Only been with 2 escorts in my lifetime) say that when the economy is down, escort supply increases and prices go down accordingly. One thing I've noticed is that some of these girls graduate and get nice jobs, but guess what? I don't see any correlation between the bowl and the economy (or employment statistics) at all. In good economic times, I see girls who are gainfully employed looking for the same things the 18 year old college girls want. They still want an SD, because they recognize that life still has it's challenges, even if you can afford your own apartment and car, and that professional life isn't easy for a young attractive female, so they still want help.

One POT I met recently summed it up well when I asked her to tell me what she's really looking for (I sometimes use this question to filter out potential clingers). She said "I don't think I'm looking for love necessarily, but I'm looking for that feeling of love that I would have had if I had a real father in my life". That is what a lot of these girls are referring to when they say they want "spoiling". They want a strong authority figure to make them feel special, however he does it. Once an SD masters the ability to do this (game, basically), the world is his oyster; women love attention and once you learn how to get in their head you can feed their individual need for attention (each one is different) and they will worship you from that day forward. That situation (what that girl said, but sometimes in different words) is more common than the desire for money by a factor of 10 with the SBs I've known.

My observations in those last two paragraphs are something that REALLY differentiate SBs from escorts in my experience with sugar dating.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3718410]Question about Pantydeal -- did the site give you an indication where she was geographically before you contacted her? The first thing that came to my mind (since I'm usually sugaring in select cities) is how do I see the ones within a given travel radius of a particular city? Without that kind of search ability, it would eat up tons of my time.[/QUOTE]Yes, that is exactly the problem. Their search function suck. There really is no way (its only by country! I tried searching by state, but there is no way to combine that term with those who check escort. Of course, I am hoping I can turn girls who are near me who aren't necessarily checking that box into become SBs. Anyway, I have a much more limited bowl budget these day, and am trying to stay under the SO radar, so I haven't had a SA profile in 6 months. The alternatives are to fish on CL or similar places. I was led to Pantydeal by a girl I messaged from CL who I never met. It is totally free, and I did find two POTs within driving distance. There are lots of girls trying to make bux selling panties on CL, and they are easy to search for. I just approach them with a 'I might be interested, but. An 'arrangement' is something more fun and rewarding. '

Meet this cute 19-year-old Latina. Cute as all Plays water polo for a local university so the body is tight and form. Just perfect. We meet for lunch, and then she wants to go bowling. We get to the bowling thing and I start making out in the car. She has no problem with it. DFK and all. Let's me paw her body without any hesitation. We stop at my house and hang out for a while. Driving her home, we start discussing what we're looking for. We're both on the same page. She says she doesn't sleep with anyone unless it's after five dates. I'm ok with that. She's clearly infatuated with me because I have real life game and she's in love with it. I drop her off at home and we spend 45 minutes talking in front of her parents' house. I barely get home and she's calling me and we talk for another half hour. I ask her who wore the pants in her house and she says her father. I ask her to really think about the question again and she says, "you know, you're right it is my mom. ".

One hitch. She says she's interviewing one other guy for the position. I say whoa! "I'm not interested in getting into a competition with some guy. " I've learned that dating sites are shit because there's always that hope that the next guy or girl will be better, so you / they have a hard time committing on the hope that the next message in the inbox will be Mr. Or Mrs. Perfect. So, I tell her I bring plenty to the table and am not getting into something like this. That was on the ride to her house. Yet she still called me after. She also texted additional pictures.

Not sure how I'll play it but I think I will wait and see if she texts. I'm not texting first. She's a simple girl, 19, never really experienced anything in her life. She's talking about going to see Hamilton. That's a hefty fee for two tickets here in Chicago. She's also a bit of a freak from what she's told me. Yet she has a five-date rule. Sounds to me like she just wants to be shown the town. Interestingly enough she had no problem being touchy feely with a guy almost 3 times her age. In a bowling alley no less. She's a blast but I think she's playing guys just for the adventures. We'll see.

When I got home I facetimed the 24-year-old that I've been doing for a while. The 30-year-old smoking hottie texted me that she got me new sheets for my house at half price from her friend that works at Bloomingdales. I've also got a three-hour fuck date with a 25-year-old spinner for $250.

The one thing that this SA does for sure is take up a lot of time. Fortunately, I have plenty.

I'm sure this has been discussed before but it recently dawned on me to look for an app that hides any social media apps I don't want prying eyes to see. I do use a burner phone but still to cover loose ends I found Apex Launcher though to be effective enough though there are other options. Its an unassuming looking app and where you go to hide other apps isn't where you'd think to look. Obviously if you're dealing with someone tech savvy its not an option but it works in my case.

The other thing I've found is that even though I mute notifications on an app like Kik they still come through. On my droid I have to go into settings, application manager then find the app and manually disable notifications.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3718677]..She said "I don't think I'm looking for love necessarily, but I'm looking for that feeling of love that I would have had if I had a real father in my life". That is what a lot of these girls are referring to when they say they want "spoiling". They want a strong authority figure to make them feel special, however he does it...[/QUOTE]What is the typical age range for this type of SBs? I would guess this may not be true for the older ones ( 35-40) as they likely to be in the bowl only for the $.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3718677]...That is what a lot of these girls are referring to when they say they want "spoiling". They want a strong authority figure to make them feel special, however he does it. Once an SD masters the ability to do this (game, basically), the world is his oyster; women love attention and once you learn how to get in their head you can feed their individual need for attention (each one is different) and they will worship you from that day forward...[/QUOTE]Would it include travel or being together in public as in normal dating not an option for those of us with SOs! If it is just talking or otherwise being together in semi-private (parks etc.) places then yes we can do that!

Last Halloween SA offered 1/3 off are there other occasions when they run specials? Such as this Valentine's day! This guy recently raised his prices by nearly 30%(70 to 90 for monthly) and removed the separate pricing in the mobile app (week for $35) hence the reluctance to pay full price.

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;3721444]Last Halloween SA offered 1/3 off are there other occasions when they run specials? Such as this Valentine's day! This guy recently raised his prices by nearly 30%(70 to 90 for monthly) and removed the separate pricing in the mobile app (week for $35) hence the reluctance to pay full price.[/QUOTE]Dude is IMHO as greedy and he is savvy. I am sure he realizes that BP got hammered by LE and is now cr at p and other sites have followed that lead (pics & numbers only) as to avoid troubles of their own (or maybe they got hammered too? Thus the number of places where one can look up p*ssy for dating has shrunk, so with his "insulated" site, he thinks he can charge more and get away with it. Lots of guys us SA as a one-off hook up site and not for LT arrangements. Only way to stop that is to quit paying en-mass. THAT or he recognizes that it won't be long before LE and AGs go after his business and he needs to get as much money stick piled before his wings get clipped.

There is always SD4 Me. LOL. But the point is perhaps it is time to find and develop other sites rather than Wade's?

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;3721444]Last Halloween SA offered 1/3 off are there other occasions when they run specials? Such as this Valentine's day! This guy recently raised his prices by nearly 30%(70 to 90 for monthly) and removed the separate pricing in the mobile app (week for $35) hence the reluctance to pay full price.[/QUOTE]The costs of a SA membership will be a fraction of what you spend on real arrangements, especially if you are trying to dodge a SO. In a month on there you can get enough leads to last for quite a while. I don't have a membership now, I am fishing in some other ponds. There are disadvantages, a lot of crap to sift through, but now and then you find a real gem. I still think SA is the best place to get right to what you are looking for, it's just there's a lot of GPS there too.

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;3721423]What is the typical age range for this type of SBs? I would guess this may not be true for the older ones ( 35-40) as they likely to be in the bowl only for the $.[/QUOTE]I don't even deal with the 35+ crowd of ladies in the bowl. While there are definitely exceptions, I find them to generally be delusional and angry people. They seem to try to counteract the the loss of value and diminished beauty brought by aging by trying to pretend that their age / experience somehow makes them better than their competition.

In terms of sugar dating, 30 is about the cut off date for me but I generally look for 18-25 year olds. Between 25-30 they get very relationship minded and that can lead to a lot of clingy behavior.

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;3721435]Would it include travel or being together in public as in normal dating not an option for those of us with SOs! If it is just talking or otherwise being together in semi-private (parks etc.) places then yes we can do that![/QUOTE]Traveling is an example, but the type of travel they would consider spoiling is taking her somewhere she specifically wants to go as opposed to traveling somewhere you were already headed anyway (i.e. special trip for her entertainment).

Other common examples are taking her shopping, suffering through a movie you didn't want to see but she did, taking her on some activity that she's always wanted to do but never had the chance. I rarely actually do anything like this, I'm just saying this is what many of them consider being spoiled. Basically anything that you don't really want to do, and probably 99% of other men don't, but she does. Just think of things a father would do for his daughter on her birthday, anything that fills in the blank there would be an example.

Then there is the method of making them feel special through words and every day actions. This is just a learned skill. It's a fine balancing act that involves never relinquishing your dominance, while making her feel she is extraordinarily special. Just think of how a good father would act with his daughter -- she can't make the rules, and she can't act up without discipline, and he is in charge of everything but she receives his constant adoration. That's what most of the ones I meet are looking for, the strong but adoring dad they never had.

That last paragraph is where my specialty is. I don't take them on expensive trips or to ballgames or concerts or anything like that.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3721814]Traveling is an example, but the type of travel they would consider spoiling is taking her somewhere she specifically wants to go as opposed to traveling somewhere you were already headed anyway (i.e. special trip for her entertainment).

Other common examples are taking her shopping, suffering through a movie you didn't want to see but she did, taking her on some activity that she's always wanted to do but never had the chance. I rarely actually do anything like this, I'm just saying this is what many of them consider being spoiled. Basically anything that you don't really want to do, and probably 99% of other men don't, but she does. Just think of things a father would do for his daughter on her birthday, anything that fills in the blank there would be an example.

Then there is the method of making them feel special through words and every day actions. This is just a learned skill. It's a fine balancing act that involves never relinquishing your dominance, while making her feel she is extraordinarily special. Just think of how a good father would act with his daughter -- she can't make the rules, and she can't act up without discipline, and he is in charge of everything but she receives his constant adoration. That's what most of the ones I meet are looking for, the strong but adoring dad they never had.

That last paragraph is where my specialty is. I don't take them on expensive trips or to ballgames or concerts or anything like that.[/QUOTE]Tried to message you JR but said you were full.

[QUOTE=IbDaddy;3721838]Tried to message you JR but said you were full.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I get so many PMs that I just stopped dealing with them at all. Best to just post comments here.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3721808]I don't even deal with the 35+ crowd of ladies in the bowl. While there are definitely exceptions, I find them to generally be delusional and angry people. They seem to try to counteract the the loss of value and diminished beauty brought by aging by trying to pretend that their age / experience somehow makes them better than their competition.

In terms of sugar dating, 30 is about the cut off date for me but I generally look for 18-25 year olds. Between 25-30 they get very relationship minded and that can lead to a lot of clingy behavior.[/QUOTE]18-25 is the sweet spot. I'm seeing a 30 year old and she is amazing in bed. All she want's to do is please me. Problem is, she's always either drinking or smoking pot, and going off on these tangents where all I want to say is shut the fuck up. She owns two businesses and is about the most neurotic person I've ever met. The young ones want to please because of daddy issues but they are still a fresh canvas and very malleable.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3721814]Traveling is an example, but the type of travel they would consider spoiling is taking her somewhere she specifically wants to go as opposed to traveling somewhere you were already headed anyway (i.e. special trip for her entertainment).

Other common examples are taking her shopping, suffering through a movie you didn't want to see but she did, taking her on some activity that she's always wanted to do but never had the chance. I rarely actually do anything like this, I'm just saying this is what many of them consider being spoiled. Basically anything that you don't really want to do, and probably 99% of other men don't, but she does. Just think of things a father would do for his daughter on her birthday, anything that fills in the blank there would be an example.

Then there is the method of making them feel special through words and every day actions. This is just a learned skill. It's a fine balancing act that involves never relinquishing your dominance, while making her feel she is extraordinarily special. Just think of how a good father would act with his daughter -- she can't make the rules, and she can't act up without discipline, and he is in charge of everything but she receives his constant adoration. That's what most of the ones I meet are looking for, the strong but adoring dad they never had.

That last paragraph is where my specialty is. I don't take them on expensive trips or to ballgames or concerts or anything like that.[/QUOTE]On the money! I look at it like business. Figure out where the hurt is and then be the band-aide. Yesterday, on the second date, I got the young Latina to share her traumas with me. As she started crying I hugged her and consoled her. She just melted. I don't spend huge money on them but I let them know that I am always there for them. The trauma was her dad losing faith in her. She's smart and a hard working student, and her father took away her self esteem in one incident. I will actually help her get over that hurt because I am well versed in human psychology. (Business 101) In the mean time I will also enjoy her beautiful youth. At the end of the day all the SB I've had walked away better and stronger women than when they met me. Most of mine have lasted 2-3 years. When they are strong and can make it on their own it's usually time to cut cords and start hunting again.

Brothers,

I have not been very successful in finding a decent long term SB by offering gifts / allowance so I have been thinking of getting an apartment in my name and offer it to women in exchange for their company / favors with the understanding that she can move out whenever she is no longer interested in continuing the arrangement. Of course asking her to leave may not be so easy which means I have to be sure of getting someone who I can be with long term. Living with her is not an option due to SO and family!

I realize that SA and similar sites will not be the right place to find such women. So where do I look for women searching for a place? CL, Roomster do colleges have their own forums for such postings?

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;3723747]Brothers,

I have not been very successful in finding a decent long term SB by offering gifts / allowance so I have been thinking of getting an apartment in my name and offer it to women in exchange for their company / favors with the understanding that she can move out whenever she is no longer interested in continuing the arrangement. Of course asking her to leave may not be so easy which means I have to be sure of getting someone who I can be with long term. Living with her is not an option due to SO and family!

I realize that SA and similar sites will not be the right place to find such women. So where do I look for women searching for a place? CL, Roomster do colleges have their own forums for such postings?[/QUOTE]Hmm, something suggests you haven't thought this through. An important element of bowl arrangements is distance / deniability / anonymity. If she is living in an apartment you rent, there is no way she will not know way too much about you. Do you really want her threatening to call your wife if you try to kick her out, or just do anything else that displeases a woman?

So you give up your identity (she will find out sooner than later), with the possibility of having to evict her? And you have an SO with family? You are clearly out of your mind. The potential for complications and her blackmailing you is simply too high.

Take a step back and re-evaluate what you're doing here. And yeah, SA is all platonic and GPS now so deal with it.

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;3723747]Brothers,

I have not been very successful in finding a decent long term SB by offering gifts / allowance so I have been thinking of getting an apartment in my name and offer it to women in exchange for their company / favors with the understanding that she can move out whenever she is no longer interested in continuing the arrangement. Of course asking her to leave may not be so easy which means I have to be sure of getting someone who I can be with long term. Living with her is not an option due to SO and family!

I realize that SA and similar sites will not be the right place to find such women. So where do I look for women searching for a place? CL, Roomster do colleges have their own forums for such postings?[/QUOTE]

I wrote to them and complained about the $90 a month cost, basically they could give a s**t. So I'm walking away. I'm not a cheapskate and have plenty of funds to put into the hobby, but it's the principle of ripping people off. Generally the site is not worth all the trouble you go to in order to meet POTs. Maybe it works for younger guys (30's to 40's) but for older SD's it's slim pickings. Lots of escorts have moved to SA and I don't mess with the under 25 crowd for various reasons. Doesn't leave much. Maybe in Richmond it works better and is worth the money but smaller cities and out in the boonies it's rough.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3721555]Dude is IMHO as greedy and he is savvy. I am sure he realizes that BP got hammered by LE and is now cr at p and other sites have followed that lead (pics & numbers only) as to avoid troubles of their own (or maybe they got hammered too? Thus the number of places where one can look up p*ssy for dating has shrunk, so with his "insulated" site, he thinks he can charge more and get away with it. Lots of guys us SA as a one-off hook up site and not for LT arrangements. Only way to stop that is to quit paying en-mass. THAT or he recognizes that it won't be long before LE and AGs go after his business and he needs to get as much money stick piled before his wings get clipped.

There is always SD4 Me. LOL. But the point is perhaps it is time to find and develop other sites rather than Wade's?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=KrustyDawg7;3723862]I wrote to them and complained about the $90 a month cost, basically they could give a s**t. So I'm walking away. I'm not a cheapskate and have plenty of funds to put into the hobby, but it's the principle of ripping people off. Generally the site is not worth all the trouble you go to in order to meet POTs. Maybe it works for younger guys (30's to 40's) but for older SD's it's slim pickings. Lots of escorts have moved to SA and I don't mess with the under 25 crowd for various reasons. Doesn't leave much. Maybe in Richmond it works better and is worth the money but smaller cities and out in the boonies it's rough.[/QUOTE]I can believe that SA might not be worth it away from urban centers. I am in southern California and there is continuous population just about from the border to Santa Barbara. Probably 25 million people. If you limit yourself to 25 YO though, you are going to have trouble. It is faulty to think if you are 60 you can't score w / a low 20's girl, even teens. I have succeeded multiple times w / girls who are 1/3 my age. Just keep in mind that this Richmond thread is the de facto national thread for sugar bowl activities, what people report is about their local experience, and there may be a *lot* of variation out there. If you need to know the best way to find SBs in your area, go to that area's thread.

What's up brothers? Greetings from Atlanta. Relatively new to the bowl but have had great success so far and enjoying the journey.

Figured I would reach out to the senior forum on all things SD / SB for a little insight. How do you guys handle Valentine's Day? Obviously you can't spend time with your entire harem. And spending any time if you have a SO is unlikely. So what do you do to compensate? If anything? Will your SBs expect anything from your experience. I know Amazon offers egift cards that are sent instantly via text or email (make sure you use a burner amazon account, please). Just wanted to know your tips and tricks for handling this "holiday" . Obviously you could easily be out $$$ if you're too generous to the entire flock. Thoughts?

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3721555]Dude is IMHO as greedy and he is savvy. I am sure he realizes that BP got hammered by LE and is now cr at p and other sites have followed that lead (pics & numbers only) as to avoid troubles of their own (or maybe they got hammered too? Thus the number of places where one can look up p*ssy for dating has shrunk, so with his "insulated" site, he thinks he can charge more and get away with it. Lots of guys us SA as a one-off hook up site and not for LT arrangements. Only way to stop that is to quit paying en-mass. THAT or he recognizes that it won't be long before LE and AGs go after his business and he needs to get as much money stick piled before his wings get clipped.

There is always SD4 Me. LOL. But the point is perhaps it is time to find and develop other sites rather than Wade's?[/QUOTE]In my humble opinion it was a stretch under the constitution and first amendment rights to shut down BP. I did not agree with it and thus far, neither have the courts. That said, if we have LE and AG targeting the sugar baby thing, then we truly no longer live in a free country and live in a country that applies and makes up laws as we go. I don't care that it is distasteful to the bible belt mentality in America, it is an adults free choice to play sexually and to connect with whom they like. If 20-something young women enjoy the company of older men, who's fucking business is it. Yes, prostitution is illegal, but even that is such a grey area of the law, I see no way they can apply it mass coverage by simply shutting down swag dating and websites that cater to it.

I agree that for the average judgmental fuck out there, sugar dating looks hideous. But so does half the other shit we do anymore in this country. We either are free or we are not. They will just shove a couple bad examples in the medias face and then the masses will accept more of their rights being taken. Voices silenced and free will controlled. When in reality, you can use these uncommon and extreme examples with just about anything.

In my opinion, the great thing about being a SD is the liberation from having to observe Valentine's Day, Birthdays, Christmas, and all the others. I am NOT their "boyfriend". I don't feel obligated to a SB beyond any usual allowance or pay-per-meet arrangement. Same reason that I don't do sleep-overs, at their place, or mine. Otherwise you are getting on the slippery slope to having a committed relationship, and once the girl gets to thinking she's "entitled" to all these extra benefits, then you're screwed. Anyway, a lot of these girls are juggling more than one SD or have a regular boyfriend / spouse that they are cheating on with you. So you need to be the "bad ass" and just ignore all this crap. I haven't had to observe Valentine's Day for 15 years, and I'm still getting plenty of sex. That's my story, though I respect others that may disagree.

[QUOTE=Ripvan12;3724054]What's up brothers? Greetings from Atlanta. Relatively new to the bowl but have had great success so far and enjoying the journey.

Figured I would reach out to the senior forum on all things SD / SB for a little insight. How do you guys handle Valentine's Day? Obviously you can't spend time with your entire harem. And spending any time if you have a SO is unlikely. So what do you do to compensate? If anything? Will your SBs expect anything from your experience. I know Amazon offers egift cards that are sent instantly via text or email (make sure you use a burner amazon account, please). Just wanted to know your tips and tricks for handling this "holiday" . Obviously you could easily be out $$$ if you're too generous to the entire flock. Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

Appreciate the additional info. I am in rural western Virginia, and pickings are slim, so right now SA is just not worth the cost. That being said, virtually all the other SD sites are complete wastes of time. I can list those that I have looked at or tried if anyone is interested. There also are some "review" sites out there but many are simply hidden commercials for one or another of the SD sites. As you suggested, being an older SD I don't necessarily pass over the 18-25 age group, it just takes a bit of work. There are a lot of broke college girls. If you get one that is near graduating, then they will be leaving the area most likely. Which can be either a good or bad thing depending on how you look at it.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3723945]I can believe that SA might not be worth it away from urban centers. I am in southern California and there is continuous population just about from the border to Santa Barbara. Probably 25 million people. If you limit yourself to 25 YO though, you are going to have trouble. It is faulty to think if you are 60 you can't score w / a low 20's girl, even teens. I have succeeded multiple times w / girls who are 1/3 my age. Just keep in mind that this Richmond thread is the de facto national thread for sugar bowl activities, what people report is about their local experience, and there may be a *lot* of variation out there. If you need to know the best way to find SBs in your area, go to that area's thread.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3721814]Traveling is an example, but the type of travel they would consider spoiling is taking her somewhere she specifically wants to go as opposed to traveling somewhere you were already headed anyway (i.e. special trip for her entertainment).

Other common examples are taking her shopping, suffering through a movie you didn't want to see but she did, taking her on some activity that she's always wanted to do but never had the chance. I rarely actually do anything like this, I'm just saying this is what many of them consider being spoiled. Basically anything that you don't really want to do, and probably 99% of other men don't, but she does. Just think of things a father would do for his daughter on her birthday, anything that fills in the blank there would be an example.

Then there is the method of making them feel special through words and every day actions. This is just a learned skill. It's a fine balancing act that involves never relinquishing your dominance, while making her feel she is extraordinarily special. Just think of how a good father would act with his daughter -- she can't make the rules, and she can't act up without discipline, and he is in charge of everything but she receives his constant adoration. That's what most of the ones I meet are looking for, the strong but adoring dad they never had.

That last paragraph is where my specialty is. I don't take them on expensive trips or to ballgames or concerts or anything like that.[/QUOTE]Travelling is only possible if you are willing to divulge your true identity. Hotel registrations and boarding passes make your information easy for her to find out, if not mandatorily divulged.

I can only go out to dinner when I travel and any public outings on my home turf just don't fit my lifestyle (married and live in small town. The personlized license plates my wife got me for my birthday a few years back don't help either).

I ask them what they dream of in terms of being spoiled -- the best gifts are something deeply desired that they can't afford or won't every treat themselves too. You'd be surprised at what they select. A $40 purse when I was expecting a $200 one. I ask them to fill out a wishlist on amazon of practical things (clothes, make up, household goods) and fun things (lingerie, toys, etc). Instead of taking them shopping -- time sink -- I just pick something off their list after I bang them and they get the instant gratification of the Amazon notificatioin email.

Sometimes I'll buy it and have it shipped to my office and give to her in person when we meet. One gal picked out some boots and shoes, anyone of which was around $200. I googled them and got after Christmas sales of more than 1/2 price. Since she would never buy them she had no idea I got them so cheap and she all but put them on and rode my face when I gave her the first pair. She thinks she got $400 with of shoes and fucked me all night like she did -- only cost me $200.

Also, beauty products are a HUGE hit. Its amazing how much women spend on this crap -- and most struggling SBs just get the cheap stuff from Ulta or CVS. They would never spend $20 on a single lipstick, but I must say, if you do the feeling of those $20 lips on your cock will blow your mind. The gals at the beauty stores know just what to get her -- just show them a picture or describer her hair and eye color and skin tone and they will get exactly the right thing. Makes you "sensitive" to know what a woman wants.

Gift certificates are also great for other spoiling -- and I don't mean the store kind. Charity auctions are great places to pick up hotel stays and meals on the cheap. In my case, hotels and restuarants are my clients, so we do trades sometimes. SB has a birthday coming up -- I give her dinner for two at a nice restaurant so she can go out with her bestie. I can't travel with them, but can't tell you how many SB's I've given a two night stay in DC or NYC to (cash cost $0) in exchange for a multi night fuck fest. So many want to experrience things they can't afford at this point in their lives. Plus they love showing off to their bestie whom they take with them.