"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=GenXer;3695152]Has anyone had any luck with Above_average1? I've seen her profile for a long time and can't even get the time of Day from her. Her few pics she's shown over the years are extremely hot. Just curious. I usually have pretty good angles of approach. But not with her.[/QUOTE]Tell her this: that you've been admiring her for many years and that your life is incomplete without her. That you'll do anything just to get a shred of attention and really, if she gives you a small chance she'll see what a great guy you are and that she's been wrong to ignore you all these years. Tell her you two are meant to be together and that you can make each other very happy. Or you can 'just move on'.

[QUOTE=Apothecary;3692908]
Bottom line, my conclusion, the person (lets call her Granny) who was texting me was not the one who showed up. My gut feel was right, they work in groups. Perhaps Granny schedules the meets, comes to the M&G place first, clears the air and then as soon as SD comes in, SB is informed and now she can walk in. Since it's been a week, Granny has no idea what arrangements were made with me because I tricked her with a different number and has no recollection of any conversation. I understand she could technically meet with 10 different guys but there's no way one can forget specific details of an hour meeting just a week ago. If it was the same SB, then there's no way someone can blackout on an hour conversation after a week. So I guess this is how new agencies are targeting guys now using SA. There's no cost of maintaining a website, its all free and they have no fear of being called illegal!![/QUOTE]I dunno, hard to tell what are all of the facts, but I'd say one was over thinking the situation. First one thought a girl was spying on you, now one thinks they are working in packs? Hey, could be. But number one thing is this TRUST YOUR GUT! If you are freaked out about the girl watching you before the date shows up. By all means ASK the date if she had a look out. Then carefully watch her response. Second, might make some sense like OP suggested that all conversation during the M&G should be aimed at getting her into the FC. She balks or has no firm plan of when that will happen. Move on.

For me the described situation would have freaked me out when I first started in the bowl. I was aware of everything around me and suspicious of stuff that was probably innocuous. But with time, one develops some "Spidey Senses" that are more in tune. That said at any level of experience, [B]when the Spidey Senses make one uncomfortable it is time to back off or move on.[/B] I have had buddies who try to "manipulate" a girl to their needs / wishes. This isn't a game of Survivor! Most of the time the guys tried playing games with a girl, it ended badly for him! But when things don't seem right, just back off. As OP have said, plenty of fish in the sea.

But the case one described could be where the SB thought about it & got cold feet? Maybe for whatever reason she found some trait she didn't like? The smartest way to say "no thanks" for her, in that situation, is to quote a high number that you won't agree to. That way she never actually turns you down, you turn her down.

So don't over think things, move on, With experience one will learn to adjust and avoid these girls and this kind of thing won't be an issue / bothersome.

Good Luck!

I agree with your thought that this is over thinking. I'd also mention that if you act like this it is easy to come across desperate. Desperation will either scare girls off, or in some cases cause them to use the desperation as a means to take advantage of an SD. I'm not saying the OP is desperate, but is dangerously close to looking like it.

It's been said on this thread many times before, but it is best to use the "abundance theory". Always behave, even if it's not true, that you have an abundant number of options. Women will find that more attractive. You will be seen as less likely to get attached, bring drama or come across like a stalker.

Best luck searching.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3695977]I dunno, hard to tell what are all of the facts, but I'd say one was over thinking the situation. First one thought a girl was spying on you, now one thinks they are working in packs? Hey, could be. But number one thing is this TRUST YOUR GUT! If you are freaked out about the girl watching you before the date shows up. By all means ASK the date if she had a look out. Then carefully watch her response. Second, might make some sense like OP suggested that all conversation during the M&G should be aimed at getting her into the FC. She balks or has no firm plan of when that will happen. Move on.

For me the described situation would have freaked me out when I first started in the bowl. I was aware of everything around me and suspicious of stuff that was probably innocuous. But with time, one develops some "Spidey Senses" that are more in tune. That said at any level of experience, [B]when the Spidey Senses make one uncomfortable it is time to back off or move on.[/B] I have had buddies who try to "manipulate" a girl to their needs / wishes. This isn't a game of Survivor! Most of the time the guys tried playing games with a girl, it ended badly for him! But when things don't seem right, just back off. As OP have said, plenty of fish in the sea.

But the case one described could be where the SB thought about it & got cold feet? Maybe for whatever reason she found some trait she didn't like? The smartest way to say "no thanks" for her, in that situation, is to quote a high number that you won't agree to. That way she never actually turns you down, you turn her down.

So don't over think things, move on, With experience one will learn to adjust and avoid these girls and this kind of thing won't be an issue / bothersome.

Good Luck![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;3696214]I agree with your thought that this is over thinking. I'd also mention that if you act like this it is easy to come across desperate. Desperation will either scare girls off, or in some cases cause them to use the desperation as a means to take advantage of an SD. I'm not saying the OP is desperate, but is dangerously close to looking like it.

It's been said on this thread many times before, but it is best to use the "abundance theory". Always behave, even if it's not true, that you have an abundant number of options. Women will find that more attractive. You will be seen as less likely to get attached, bring drama or come across like a stalker.

Best luck searching.[/QUOTE]Dude, about 75% of the people seeking advice on here can be answered with "just stop being so fucking thirsty and desperate". Any pro / semi-pro girl on SA will feed off guy's desperation and use it to bleed them dry.

[QUOTE=SaltyDog2016;3684719]RVA brothers,

This cutie was once on my SA to-do list when she lived in VB, she's since moved to RVA and I never had the opportunity. She's recently hmu asking if I could help and I just don't get up that way often. Thus, I wanted to ensure y'all had the chance to help her out. Mid 20's, no restrictions. Not sure of your financial obligations but she's super cool to talk with. If you're interested PM me and I'll put you in contact with her.

All I ask is you have some forum credibility and please dont hmu if you dont contribute to the sharing of information in here.

Thanks,
Salty.[/QUOTE]Salty, you've been hoodwinked. This is Pam of "Pam and Maddy" fame; she is from Richmond and has been in the game (and chasing the dragon) in the area for years. Early to mid 2017 they were working out of a crappy house in Midlo, lately she has been hosting (solo I think) at her BFs house in the East End. Her reviews have been very YMMV but she is a straight up pro.

I agree with all your points. And I have tried to follow all rules that you guys quoted here in all my meets and conversation.

In my defense, I can say that I was nowhere close to desperate during our M&G. It was about an hour casual conversation, and we said bye with an agreement to schedule something again. As you said there are just too many possibilities here, and based on my experience I had to follow my gut and let it go. Although, it would have been nice if she could come along:).

Appreciate your feedbacks.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;3696214]I agree with your thought that this is over thinking. I'd also mention that if you act like this it is easy to come across desperate. Desperation will either scare girls off, or in some cases cause them to use the desperation as a means to take advantage of an SD. I'm not saying the OP is desperate, but is dangerously close to looking like it.

It's been said on this thread many times before, but it is best to use the "abundance theory". Always behave, even if it's not true, that you have an abundant number of options. Women will find that more attractive. You will be seen as less likely to get attached, bring drama or come across like a stalker.

Best luck searching.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3695977]I dunno, hard to tell what are all of the facts, but I'd say one was over thinking the situation. First one thought a girl was spying on you, now one thinks they are working in packs? Hey, could be. But number one thing is this TRUST YOUR GUT! If you are freaked out about the girl watching you before the date shows up. By all means ASK the date if she had a look out. Then carefully watch her response. Second, might make some sense like OP suggested that all conversation during the M&G should be aimed at getting her into the FC. She balks or has no firm plan of when that will happen. Move on.

For me the described situation would have freaked me out when I first started in the bowl. I was aware of everything around me and suspicious of stuff that was probably innocuous. But with time, one develops some "Spidey Senses" that are more in tune. That said at any level of experience, [B]when the Spidey Senses make one uncomfortable it is time to back off or move on.[/B] I have had buddies who try to "manipulate" a girl to their needs / wishes. This isn't a game of Survivor! Most of the time the guys tried playing games with a girl, it ended badly for him! But when things don't seem right, just back off. As OP have said, plenty of fish in the sea.

But the case one described could be where the SB thought about it & got cold feet? Maybe for whatever reason she found some trait she didn't like? The smartest way to say "no thanks" for her, in that situation, is to quote a high number that you won't agree to. That way she never actually turns you down, you turn her down.

So don't over think things, move on, With experience one will learn to adjust and avoid these girls and this kind of thing won't be an issue / bothersome.

Good Luck![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=EvilTmp;3696272]Dude, about 75% of the people seeking advice on here can be answered with "just stop being so fucking thirsty and desperate". Any pro / semi-pro girl on SA will feed off guy's desperation and use it to bleed them dry.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Tidad;3696432]Salty, you've been hoodwinked. This is Pam of "Pam and Maddy" fame; she is from Richmond and has been in the game (and chasing the dragon) in the area for years. Early to mid 2017 they were working out of a crappy house in Midlo, lately she has been hosting (solo I think) at her BFs house in the East End. Her reviews have been very YMMV but she is a straight up pro.[/QUOTE]I connected with her on SA and had a dream (that I reviewed) a few weeks back. Killer DT. A real pro! And the pus was wet and tight. She is solo. Damage was much higher than it should have been. I thought she was an SB, not a BP provider at the time. Had I known I would not have offered $$. My bad.

But the picture is at least several years and 30 (or more) pounds ago. She was not what I expected looks-wise. I'm used to that with BP but not SA.

She says she has roommates that are flight attendants so they arent there often so I can't say if the apt is her BFs or not. It was comfortable and clean when I was there and she didint seem paranoid or in any kind of hurry.

I think I read too that she took a short vaca recently but IDK what it was about.

Be safe!

I have a SB I haven't seen in 6 months (I've been out of the bowl b / c of a mishap). She is an incredibly hot fitness model, half my age, Russian. Yes, I know their reputation as mercenaries. We had great chemistry and she was unhappy I had to stop. Me too. I had located her true identity, I have her resume, home address, etc. I am still anonymous to her. We are back in touch and will meet soon. I must economize for bowl activities, and am thinking that going to her place instead of getting a hotel would enable us to keep seeing each other. What are the +/- of proposing this to her? I would basically need to come out with the fact that I know her real identity.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3697508]I have a SB I haven't seen in 6 months (I've been out of the bowl b / c of a mishap). She is an incredibly hot fitness model, half my age, Russian. Yes, I know their reputation as mercenaries. We had great chemistry and she was unhappy I had to stop. Me too. I had located her true identity, I have her resume, home address, etc. I am still anonymous to her. We are back in touch and will meet soon. I must economize for bowl activities, and am thinking that going to her place instead of getting a hotel would enable us to keep seeing each other. What are the +/- of proposing this to her? I would basically need to come out with the fact that I know her real identity.[/QUOTE]I'd keep the fact you already know her identity secret. It might seem like revealing that you already know it gives you leverage, but chances are it would work against you. Use tact to propose the idea of her hosting, and sell the idea by highlighting that it results in more sugar for her because you don't need to pay for a room; as long as you approach that negotiation from the proper angle, there is really no downside to doing so. The worst she can do is say no she can't host -- and there could be lots of reasons (like a live-in bf or gf that she never talks about).

Was just messaging a POT about negotiations, and when I refreshed the page, I got a warning dialog that reminded me "SA is only for real relationships, not PPM", and forced me to check off agreement with five principles. They do seem to be doing pattern matching on messages.

For a while I'd included an email address in my standard greeting, but I stopped doing that at some point. I may have to start that again, although it seems like email is definitely a dying thing among the younger generations.

I got the same pop up today. Seems like a CYA move by SA. I assumed it was something they made everyone check off, but I wonder if it was based on my communication. I never discuss "pay for play", but I do discuss starting with a "pay per meet" allowance if things go well.

The check box disclaimer makes it clear they don't encourage "pay per meet " allowances. If the allowance isn't in return for intimacy, I'm not sure I understand the concern. Isn't that the premise of WYP?

[QUOTE=Zcochran00;3700100]Was just messaging a POT about negotiations, and when I refreshed the page, I got a warning dialog that reminded me "SA is only for real relationships, not PPM", and forced me to check off agreement with five principles. They do seem to be doing pattern matching on messages.

For a while I'd included an email address in my standard greeting, but I stopped doing that at some point. I may have to start that again, although it seems like email is definitely a dying thing among the younger generations.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Zcochran00;3700100]Was just messaging a POT about negotiations, and when I refreshed the page, I got a warning dialog that reminded me "SA is only for real relationships, not PPM", and forced me to check off agreement with five principles. They do seem to be doing pattern matching on messages.

For a while I'd included an email address in my standard greeting, but I stopped doing that at some point. I may have to start that again, although it seems like email is definitely a dying thing among the younger generations.[/QUOTE]They suspended me the other day. I sent three messages one with "pay to play". I wonder if they will lift the ban or refund me since I renewed and was suspended in four hours.

My apologies fellas. I never had the opportunity to meet her when she was in VAB, but sounds as though she's a RVA regular. She made it sound like she just moved there and was in need of help. Appears she got some advertising out of me none the less. Sorry she wasn't as expected.

Salty.

[QUOTE=Tidad;3696432]Salty, you've been hoodwinked. This is Pam of "Pam and Maddy" fame; she is from Richmond and has been in the game (and chasing the dragon) in the area for years. Early to mid 2017 they were working out of a crappy house in Midlo, lately she has been hosting (solo I think) at her BFs house in the East End. Her reviews have been very YMMV but she is a straight up pro.[/QUOTE]

I did get the SA pop-up as well, and since I never make "escort-like" conversation or indicate how much I will pay per meet, I assumed it is something that everyone will see at least once? I could be wrong, there could be a false-positive detection in my messages, but honestly if they are mining the contents of our messages they are undermining their marketing position of a lifestyle-specific dating site that supports anonymity (they do encourage not using real names on their profile).

The good part about the pop-up is that it was not just aimed at daddies, it also mentioned that SA is neither the place for "online only" bullshit or escorting. Hopefully this means they will start banning the girls who just want to sell sexy pictures and the morons that pay for that, and if we're lucky start reducing the numbers of folks who don't understand the difference between sugar dating and escorting.

In terms of actual pay per meet, I doubt any SD will just start a girl on a monthly allowance so it's the only way to do things. We should not sweat this one at all, just tell her that the conversation must be taken to text or email to work out details. The ones that are interested will do this pretty quickly anyway. The only caveat is that newer girls haven't worked out the idea of a burner number in their mind and are skittish about giving out their real number (rightfully so).

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3700483]I did get the SA pop-up as well, and since I never make "escort-like" conversation or indicate how much I will pay per meet, I assumed it is something that everyone will see at least once? I could be wrong, there could be a false-positive detection in my messages, but honestly if they are mining the contents of our messages they are undermining their marketing position of a lifestyle-specific dating site that supports anonymity (they do encourage not using real names on their profile).

The good part about the pop-up is that it was not just aimed at daddies, it also mentioned that SA is neither the place for "online only" bullshit or escorting. Hopefully this means they will start banning the girls who just want to sell sexy pictures and the morons that pay for that, and if we're lucky start reducing the numbers of folks who don't understand the difference between sugar dating and escorting.

In terms of actual pay per meet, I doubt any SD will just start a girl on a monthly allowance so it's the only way to do things. We should not sweat this one at all, just tell her that the conversation must be taken to text or email to work out details. The ones that are interested will do this pretty quickly anyway. The only caveat is that newer girls haven't worked out the idea of a burner number in their mind and are skittish about giving out their real number (rightfully so).[/QUOTE]I got the same pop up. Guess there has been some complaining. Last week, the SA police blocked me for 24 hrs for using the term "casual encounter". Aren't these all casual encounters?

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3700483]In terms of actual pay per meet, I doubt any SD will just start a girl on a monthly allowance so it's the only way to do things. We should not sweat this one at all, just tell her that the conversation must be taken to text or email to work out details. The ones that are interested will do this pretty quickly anyway. The only caveat is that newer girls haven't worked out the idea of a burner number in their mind and are skittish about giving out their real number (rightfully so).[/QUOTE]I got the pop-up also but I got at login leaving me to conclude it is going to all members. I never talk PPM but I do suggest we start with a weekly allowance meeting once per week as we build trust.

Bam.

[QUOTE=RedBaron69;3700944]I got the same pop up. Guess there has been some complaining. Last week, the SA police blocked me for 24 hrs for using the term "casual encounter". Aren't these all casual encounters?[/QUOTE]Was casual encounter something you mentioned in a couple of messages here or there, or was it something that you sent out in pre-worded introductory blast (I. E. Many copies of same)?

[QUOTE=BamBam;3701013]I got the pop-up also but I got at login leaving me to conclude it is going to all members. I never talk PPM but I do suggest we start with a weekly allowance meeting once per week as we build trust.

Bam.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I think it was meant for everyone. From an operational standpoint it would be way easier (cheaper) just to use the opportunity to remind all members what the site is about rather than to mine all messages looking for trouble.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;3700197]I got the same pop up today. Seems like a CYA move by SA. I assumed it was something they made everyone check off, but I wonder if it was based on my communication. I never discuss "pay for play", but I do discuss starting with a "pay per meet" allowance if things go well.

The check box disclaimer makes it clear they don't encourage "pay per meet " allowances. If the allowance isn't in return for intimacy, I'm not sure I understand the concern. Isn't that the premise of WYP?[/QUOTE]Which one of the sites are you talking about? WYP or SA as both are mentioned.

If one reads the disclaimers when contacting someone on WYP it is made VERY clear that while one IS paying for a date that intimacy / sexual contact is NOT to be expected. I know, I almost missed it when I was on WYP. I think we have been conditioned to just click through "the fine" print to get where we want to go. But the disclaimers are there.

What is likely going on with SA and any disclaimers is that Wade is trying to save or insulate his cash cow. LE and AGs across the country got the CC companies to stop accepting payments from BackPage (BP). BP switched to using Bitcoin. Now the Cartel have put additional pressure on BP and BP eliminated any text / description in the posts / advertisements. So the adds can be argued are just women seeking men and no sex is implied. Keeps their cash flow going, hopefully. The rational of course was to stop women from being trafficked!

So I have no doubt that LE and politicians are scheming to put pressure on Wade and his SA operation, which they view as nothing more than another source / form of prostitution. So If Wade can demonstrate that "arrangements" are clearly just platonic and has nothing to do with pay to play, he MIGHT be able to dodge a cash cow ending episode.

Me? When I am on SA, I NEVER EVER talk about any form of payment. It just makes sense to take that kind of discussion "private" to my monger email, accessed only through a VPN. Oh and of course, I am sure everyone is discussing payment is only for legitimate services: companionship, back rubs, dancing or poetry reading.

So IF Wade is putting up these new warnings & disclaimers, then he is feeling the pressure, it makes sense to be prepared should that pressure materialize and his records get seized. One doesn't want to be in a Ashley Madison situation with ones pants around their ankles!

I haven't been on SA for months, but have been trolling for girls in other venues (CL, etc.). I am finding many use kik, an app I installed on my burner. It seems to work OK, seems to be discreet (in both directions), and it seems to be popular. Whereas some sites don't permit posting of email addresses, girls are getting away with posting handles from kik, snapchat, etc. This could be unique to my area or to the non-SA POTs, but good to keep in mind.

Also on S B don't believe any of this add tried to help her but was told still had to pay for sexual favors, pictures are 3 years old. Has anybody tried meeting her? Would like to know how it went.

Greetings,

I just got a cancellation from a new beautiful Young lady because she noticed I don't have a background check? That was never a problem before.

I read it and you basically need to give up all your personal info. So much for being discreet LOL.

And I'm guessing it's not cheap.

Any experience with this?

Hello just wondering if there are any updates on how you are paying for your memberships specially on SA? I've done a search but what I have found is the the prepaid cards no longer work? Thanks.

OK fellows, lot to report here gotten few new ones, since I do not stick with just one. Hard for me variety is more exciting! In the schedule all set to go two AA 18 hot college babes, one 30+ AA having difficulty matching the schedules, one hottt Filipino 19 met and excellent hott dream wow she is a wild child Still have the regulars three others kind of rotating but I am thinking of sticking to this one Filipino.

Making a trip to Las Vegas coming weekend lined up really hot latina 19 college girl, she is committed and three others in the negotiations. Damn talk about the amount of people who are active in Las Vegas!! Almost everyone who I sent a message to want to meet, no BS dinners and M&G shit straight to the task. These are not regulars most are UNLV students!!

Will report back, I am sooo fucked with this hobby.

Stay Safe.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3703917]I haven't been on SA for months, but have been trolling for girls in other venues (CL, etc.). I am finding many use kik, an app I installed on my burner. It seems to work OK, seems to be discreet (in both directions), and it seems to be popular. Whereas some sites don't permit posting of email addresses, girls are getting away with posting handles from kik, snapchat, etc. This could be unique to my area or to the non-SA POTs, but good to keep in mind.[/QUOTE]I see a bunch of these girls on regular dating sites who use KIK and 9 out of 10 times they tend to be scammers. I am very suspicious when I see a girl who wants to use KIK.

[QUOTE=Clespot;3707680]Hello just wondering if there are any updates on how you are paying for your memberships specially on SA? I've done a search but what I have found is the the prepaid cards no longer work? Thanks.[/QUOTE]Recently I had two prepaid cards of the exact same type, same amount, registered with exactly the same (false) info. The first one went through fine, then when it came time to renew the second one it wouldn't work -- (not sure if that's a card or SA issue, since I haven't tried the card anywhere else yet).

They did have a message from support saying if you are having issues with a prepaid card, send them the info and they'll process it, but I ended up just saying fuck it and paying with Paypal. My assets are protected, so if it gets back around to my SO then it does, I'll just remind her who is in charge. The one risk I don't like is that if SA gets hacked there's a chance my name could be published, but if that ever happens I will handle it appropriately at that time.

Thanks you are more daring than I! In the past I have had some luck with banks that have prepaid cards that are used internationally. They've started asking for I'd on those as well.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3708470]Recently I had two prepaid cards of the exact same type, same amount, registered with exactly the same (false) info. The first one went through fine, then when it came time to renew the second one it wouldn't work -- (not sure if that's a card or SA issue, since I haven't tried the card anywhere else yet).

They did have a message from support saying if you are having issues with a prepaid card, send them the info and they'll process it, but I ended up just saying fuck it and paying with Paypal. My assets are protected, so if it gets back around to my SO then it does, I'll just remind her who is in charge. The one risk I don't like is that if SA gets hacked there's a chance my name could be published, but if that ever happens I will handle it appropriately at that time.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Ltnric;3708110]I see a bunch of these girls on regular dating sites who use KIK and 9 out of 10 times they tend to be scammers. I am very suspicious when I see a girl who wants to use KIK.[/QUOTE]I've used the KIK app with a handful of local girls and have not had any issue with scammers. It does seem that babies using kik are more DTF (IMHO).

Went to renew on SA and noticed is 90 per month now. WTF? Anyone know a discount code? LOL. Anyhow, I usually do a month and get myself a new lineup that I ride out for a nice rotation and then go back and do it again in a few months. Generally it takes me about a week to have 3-7 girls in my rotation, so I sure wish they had a weekly membership. 90 is just really freaking pushing it.

Weeding out and slowly letting down the crazy chick. This girl is legit, bat shit crazy. Highly educated, but equally as insane. Be careful out there brothers, in my four years of experience on the site, most of those girls ended up there for a reason. Crazy and they will take you down with them if you do not protect yourself at all times. Fun indeed, but realize what you're playing with.

JZ, I read you response a to my post awhile back and it was spot on target. You have the best advice, hands down and you should consider writing a book on this topic. LOL. You'd be rich. But yeah, I am a good looking daddy, built, got all my hair, the whole nine yards, so I would say literally 7 in 10 of the babies I've seen get relationship ideas. And I used to go along with that notion, but I've learned my lesson. I've had some crazy experience going that route and will never allow it again.

[QUOTE=Clespot;3708536]Thanks you are more daring than I! In the past I have had some luck with banks that have prepaid cards that are used internationally. They've started asking for I'd on those as well.[/QUOTE]Please, do tell, what banks have prepaid cards for international use? And who is the they you refer to. The banks, or the vendor? FarFarAway.

Seems like a genuine gal, but her dirty talk is off the charts.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;3709921]
JZ, I read you response a to my post awhile back and it was spot on target. You have the best advice, hands down and you should consider writing a book on this topic. LOL. You'd be rich. But yeah, I am a good looking daddy, built, got all my hair, the whole nine yards, so I would say literally 7 in 10 of the babies I've seen get relationship ideas. And I used to go along with that notion, but I've learned my lesson. I've had some crazy experience going that route and will never allow it again.[/QUOTE]I have actually been holding back on writing about my latest findings in the sugar world, partially because I think some of them are hard to describe without either alienating some of the audience, newcomers, or just giving the impression that I'm full of shit.

On my latest traveling-sugar binge, I did things a bit differently than I have in the past. I noticed in a LOT of profiles in various cities, many girls in the pool of SBs that I would go after are increasingly posting their interest in an arrangement that turns into a relationship, so I had an idea. What would happen if I invested a bit of time REALLY talking to each one, pouring on the game and charm, then telling them that my interest in them is way beyond the shallow confines of sugar? In line with the number you quoted above, somewhere between 6-7 out of 10 of these girls agreed to no-allowance dating (assuming we like each other at the meet)! We hear some folks say that free pussy is rare in the sugar world, I did not find this to be the case at all. Is it rare for the married guy who only wants a couple of hours in a hotel with her? Sure...it would be nearly impossible to get her to agree to do this without allowance. But what if I truly approach it the same as civy dating? What if, when I visit the girl I spend somewhere between 2-5 days with her and treat it as if I'm courting her? When I'm traveling, this is not that difficult for me to do, because when I communicate with the SO it's usually in text anyway, no need to disrupt my dating activities to answer her call and tell her how much I miss her.

Well long story short, I got a lot of "free" (or in reality very close to it) pussy. I say close to it, because in all cases I did gift something -- not because it's required but because it is important to me to establish that emotional separation, and make sure that they see me more a provider of material support than emotional support. However, the average gift came out to under $200 per overnighter date -- probably $150 on average. Not just overnighter but random afternoon fucks throughout the day in many cases. Now I did spend quite a bit on entertainment, but a lot of that was my own indulgence and certainly something I wanted to do. This is why I don't feel like dinner or dating expenses count when tallying up the total cost -- because she is not merely extracting money from me for her own gain, she is simply enjoying my company doing the same things I do (eat good food and drink etc), and therefore it's just a normal dating expense, in my mind at least. It's amazing how many of these girls just appreciate a good time and an escape from their otherwise dull lives!

Now the bad (and this is what you alluded to as well). It is pretty much impossible to do the above without expecting some clingers! All of the ones that I went overnight with did become somewhat clingy. I had one that was particularly memorable -- I stayed an entire workweek with her, and I think we fucked 15-16 times during that period, she was probably one of the more prolific nymphos I've ever met. She very quickly dismissed the idea of receiving allowance, and told me I was more of a "normal dating find" for her than what she expected in an SD, and yes when someone half your age says that, and is fucking your brains out, it does stroke your ego a bit and it's kind of hard to just pack up the suitcases and say goodbye. By day three she claims she loved me and I pretended like she never said it. She was already making all these delusional future plans for us, I mostly just bit my lip and tried to enjoy the eye candy and sex and just let on like I'm not really thinking too far in the future yet. And yes, the more resistent you are to her advances, the more she can sense it and the more of a turn on and challenge it is for her, so she keeps trying. A few times she exhibited nutty behaviors I would describe as bipolar symptoms, getting instantly furious at me for small things, random triggered, then letting her anger dissipate in a matter of seconds and returning to normal. I'm also aware that she was taking meds for some of her issues, meds that specifically warn against mixing with alcohol, yet she was doing it anyway. After I left, it took a few days to fully get rid of her, but I should be in the clear on that one as long as no paternity bullshit arises (I never use condoms). I really think 2-3 days with a girl is the maximum I want to go in the future after my recent experience. She was sad about the break up for a few days, but seems okay now and I'm sure she has probably already invoked her magical (bipolar) powers on another SD out there by now.

Bottom line is, there is something to be said for making sure that allowance or a financial arrangement is standing between you and any emotional expectation of the girl. They are human, and if they are truly attracted to their SD (which most true SBs probably are), they are quite prone to becoming attached. I think I made it worse this time by deemphasizing the financial aspect of arrangement and encouraging them to look past money even before the first M&G.

On the flip side, if I had just stuck to 18-20 year olds, I probably would not have had this problem. Its mostly the 24+ year olds that have started really thinking about their future, decided that they want a stable provider first and foremost, and if you are unmarried and have no kids (or they think you are), then you are a prime target for them. It then becomes a game of trying to have as much fun as possible without trampling on anyone's feelings or worsening the struggles that they already have. I always aim to leave them in better shape than I met them, whatever that means. I'm not sure I always succeed, but I do try.

I've not been able to monitor the board that much lately as work is crushing me. I'm on the road about 90% of the time now, and while some of it is nice places (Hawaii / Vegas / South Beach) some of it is not (Newark / East Texas). The last month or so I've been in the Baltimore area which has been interesting. The board there is pretty decent with sharing intel.

It was a busy spring, summer, and fall for me. Between work exploding, a divorce, and pretty much a complete line-up change. Shortly after my divorce, my Korean flight attendant made it clear she was next in line to be the Queen. I made it clear there would never be another Queen. She didn't take it well, and we're now history.

Peds baby and I still meet when we can, but we both have busy schedules and I'm not near her as much. We're still talking about her moving to my home base, but it doesn't make sense right now given my travel schedule.

I'm focusing on civy dating which has changed considerably in just a few years. I'm still on SA, but I'm sensing that there are way more guys than women at this point. Many of the women I've chatted with there recently mention that they've been bombarded with messages.

That's my sitrep. Situation normal, all fucked up.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3710655]

...

Now the bad (and this is what you alluded to as well). It is pretty much impossible to do the above without expecting some clingers! All of the ones that I went overnight with did become somewhat clingy. I had one that was particularly memorable -- I stayed an entire workweek with her, and I think we fucked 15-16 times during that period, she was probably one of the more prolific nymphos I've ever met. She very quickly dismissed the idea of receiving allowance, and told me I was more of a "normal dating find" for her than what she expected in an SD, and yes when someone half your age says that, and is fucking your brains out, it does stroke your ego a bit and it's kind of hard to just pack up the suitcases and say goodbye. By day three she claims she loved me and I pretended like she never said it. She was already making all these delusional future plans for us, I mostly just bit my lip and tried to enjoy the eye candy and sex and just let on like I'm not really thinking too far in the future yet. And yes, the more resistent you are to her advances, the more she can sense it and the more of a turn on and challenge it is for her, so she keeps trying. A few times she exhibited nutty behaviors I would describe as bipolar symptoms, getting instantly furious at me for small things, random triggered, then letting her anger dissipate in a matter of seconds and returning to normal. I'm also aware that she was taking meds for some of her issues, meds that specifically warn against mixing with alcohol, yet she was doing it anyway. After I left, it took a few days to fully get rid of her, but I should be in the clear on that one as long as no paternity bullshit arises (I never use condoms). I really think 2-3 days with a girl is the maximum I want to go in the future after my recent experience. She was sad about the break up for a few days, but seems okay now and I'm sure she has probably already invoked her magical (bipolar) powers on another SD out there by now.
...

[/QUOTE]I'm guessing you're in your 30's or 40's prime age for this sort of thing. I just advise anyone taking this approach to protect your identity which is incredibly difficult these days.

Not to get all nit-picky but it's not likely she was bipolar if she cycled through emotions that quickly. What I've found is there is a lot of personality disorders in SBs and I'll bet she was either borderline personality disorder or histrionic personality disorder. Look it up and see if it matches. All SDs should know what that looks like and be prepared for the roller coaster that comes with it. (I'm not saying to stay away completely, just know what you're playing with).

I know it's hard to believe for some guys but there are plenty of cute 19-20 year old who easily forget the sugar after once or twice and are just happy with the attention and time spent together. I cringe at the guys who need to spend 500 and even 700 every visit (good god, how long does it take for you to figure out she doesn't like you?). The bowl truly is like a box of chocolates.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3710655]I have actually been holding back on writing about my latest findings in the sugar world, partially because I think some of them are hard to describe without either alienating some of the audience, newcomers, or just giving the impression that I'm full of shit.

Now the bad (and this is what you alluded to as well). It is pretty much impossible to do the above without expecting some clingers! All of the ones that I went overnight with did become somewhat clingy. I had one that was particularly memorable -- I stayed an entire workweek with her, and I think we fucked 15-16 times during that period, she was probably one of the more prolific nymphos I've ever met. She very quickly dismissed the idea of receiving allowance, and told me I was more of a "normal dating find" for her than what she expected in an SD, and yes when someone half your age says that, and is fucking your brains out, it does stroke your ego a bit and it's kind of hard to just pack up the suitcases and say goodbye. By day three she claims she loved me and I pretended like she never said it. She was already making all these delusional future plans for us, I mostly just bit my lip and tried to enjoy the eye candy and sex and just let on like I'm not really thinking too far in the future yet. And yes, the more resistent you are to her advances, the more she can sense it and the more of a turn on and challenge it is for her, so she keeps trying. A few times she exhibited nutty behaviors I would describe as bipolar symptoms, getting instantly furious at me for small things, random triggered, then letting her anger dissipate in a matter of seconds and returning to normal. I'm also aware that she was taking meds for some of her issues, meds that specifically warn against mixing with alcohol, yet she was doing it anyway. After I left, it took a few days to fully get rid of her, but I should be in the clear on that one as long as no paternity bullshit arises (I never use condoms). I really think 2-3 days with a girl is the maximum I want to go in the future after my recent experience. She was sad about the break up for a few days, but seems okay now and I'm sure she has probably already invoked her magical (bipolar) powers on another SD out there by now.

...

On the flip side, if I had just stuck to 18-20 year olds, I probably would not have had this problem. Its mostly the 24+ year olds that have started really thinking about their future, decided that they want a stable provider first and foremost, and if you are unmarried and have no kids (or they think you are), then you are a prime target for them. It then becomes a game of trying to have as much fun as possible without trampling on anyone's feelings or worsening the struggles that they already have. I always aim to leave them in better shape than I met them, whatever that means. I'm not sure I always succeed, but I do try.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=EvilTmp;3711069]Not to get all nit-picky but it's not likely she was bipolar if she cycled through emotions that quickly. What I've found is there is a lot of personality disorders in SBs and I'll bet she was either borderline personality disorder or histrionic personality disorder. Look it up and see if it matches. All SDs should know what that looks like and be prepared for the roller coaster that comes with it. (I'm not saying to stay away completely, just know what you're playing with).

I know it's hard to believe for some guys but there are plenty of cute 19-20 year old who easily forget the sugar after once or twice and are just happy with the attention and time spent together. I cringe at the guys who need to spend 500 and even 700 every visit (good god, how long does it take for you to figure out she doesn't like you?). The bowl truly is like a box of chocolates.[/QUOTE]Chiming in from ORD. This has been exactly my experience. I've got one that's borderline personality disorder. I had her once and now she want's to get to know me. Then there's the 24 year old, when I asked her how much she wanted she said she was working at a real job and she didn't need a lot. Taking her to an airbnb tonight because I've had my niece living with me for a few months and I have a regular 30 year old that is a terror in bed. Sucks dick like a porn star and will do it for an hour and do it anywhere I want her to do it. Parked on a major street in the city and she's blowing me in the back seat while people are walking by. Thank g*d for tinted windows. The 30 year old has been to my house and my niece thinks we're dating so I don't want to be parading multiples through the house. The 24 year old just wants affirmation and someone to talk to about life. She also likes daddy to tell her she's a good girl.

I was a regular posting on CL but hit on SA and the flood gates have opened. I can barely keep up with life. Going to have to give up on one of life's necessities. Either work, pussy, or drinking with clients has to go.

The other thing I've noticed is they all like to be told what to do. Both in bed and out. But to your point you have to be able to go with the flow. Peaks and valleys. The other thing all these girls are looking for is a strong man. They will eat a weak one. I play it to the point. None of this lovey shit. Be the man they are looking for. Another observation over the years of CL and now SA all of them have a weak father figure or no father. So the first thing I get into on meeting is family history. If the mother wore the pants go for it. If the father did walk away.

I'm going to have to check out Richmond. One of my kids is at GW getting his PhD. Any of you guys hunt in DC or Alexandria?

[QUOTE=BikeRider;3710744]I'm guessing you're in your 30's or 40's prime age for this sort of thing. I just advise anyone taking this approach to protect your identity which is incredibly difficult these days.[/QUOTE]I'm older than that but can pass for early 30's. Lifetime commitment to exercise mostly, I think.

[QUOTE=EvilTmp;3711069]Not to get all nit-picky but it's not likely she was bipolar if she cycled through emotions that quickly. What I've found is there is a lot of personality disorders in SBs and I'll bet she was either borderline personality disorder or histrionic personality disorder. Look it up and see if it matches. All SDs should know what that looks like and be prepared for the roller coaster that comes with it. (I'm not saying to stay away completely, just know what you're playing with).

I know it's hard to believe for some guys but there are plenty of cute 19-20 year old who easily forget the sugar after once or twice and are just happy with the attention and time spent together. I cringe at the guys who need to spend 500 and even 700 every visit (good god, how long does it take for you to figure out she doesn't like you?). The bowl truly is like a box of chocolates.[/QUOTE]I looked up the definitions of borderline and histronic disorder, and some of the traits apply while others don't, similar to the definition of bipolar. I should probably not even attempt a real diagnosis here, all I know is she went from happy to pissed in nothing flat, with literally zero warning -- like holding a poker face during the jekyl / hyde transformation, then unleashing all of a sudden. Mostly a happy person until something triggered it, and then she was all tears.

So, I'm not sure what it was, but it was enough to prompt me to handle with extreme care. Even after I was physically separated from her, I continued to text as if I had every intention of seeing her again, and I waited until she got uncharacteristically pissy with me and used that as a segue into the reasons we should not bother seeing each other any more.

There was nothing that would have indicated a problem before the meet, or even really until the second or third day. To be honest, if I didn't have an SO, I would have granted this girls wish of her being my girlfriend if it weren't for the mood swings, because she had a lot going for her in terms of looks, personality (when she's not livid about something) and the over the top appetite for sex.

[QUOTE=FruitNinja;3711084] The other thing I've noticed is they all like to be told what to do. Both in bed and out. But to your point you have to be able to go with the flow. Peaks and valleys. The other thing all these girls are looking for is a strong man. They will eat a weak one. I play it to the point. None of this lovey shit. Be the man they are looking for. Another observation over the years of CL and now SA all of them have a weak father figure or no father. So the first thing I get into on meeting is family history. If the mother wore the pants go for it. If the father did walk away.[/QUOTE]I've written about this in the past, but I've found their relationship with their father has almost everything to do with what makes them want to date older men, and like you I try to find out family history early on because it helps me understand them, and that's good for both of us. They usually don't mind spilling the beans about this, and most of them seem pretty in touch with what made them who they are.

The most common scenario I encounter is "absent daddy syndrome" -- dad wasn't a part of their lives for whatever reason, or maybe he was a part of their lives but did not fully participate the way a father should. I'd say that's maybe 70-80%.

Second most common scenario is "tough act to follow daddy syndrome". The father spoiled his princess to such a degree that she will settle for no less than an older man who spoils, protects and provides for her as a partner.

Third scenario, and this is getting much rarer, like maybe 2-5% of the girls, is "super hard working underachieving Dad". This is not the same as family neglect through workaholism, that's still absent daddy syndrome. This is the dad that has a great work ethic and family ethic, but never really got ahead in life. Provides for his family, but never quite achieved any level of financial "comfort" for his family (had trouble keeping up with the Joneses). In these cases I think the girl is just looking for something better -- maybe it pains her to see her dad work so diligently for so little so she wants to be sure she doesn't have to deal with that again with her husband? Just wants a life upgrade.

A very rare scenario that I have run into only a couple of times, the girl has a good Dad but there is a 20-30 year age difference between Dad and Mom. Thus, maybe the SB is just duplicating what she's observed and hoping to repeat the success of old / young marriages?

Just to let you all know, some scammers have recently tried to target me with the underage girl scam. Don't fall for it!

Here's how it worked: An over 18 account is set up on SA which they then use to message you and move it on to text. While texting they try to get a pic from you and your name. The girl eventually sends private pics unsolicited, at which point I asked her to confirm her age. She says she's almost 17 but really into older guys yada yada. I say not interested, report her account and block her number. The next day I get a text from her 'dad' from another number saying he's going to get me arrested for child porn and to call him immediately. I'm aware of the scam and I ignore him. Later in the day I get a voicemail from a 'sheriff' in another state saying they're starting the arrest process and I should call him back immediately (to a number not matching the caller I'd) to tell my side of the story and to settle this. I googled the number on the caller I'd which was spoofed from an actual LE office in another state to make it look official, so I call back at the official number (not at the alternate number left in the VM) I ask to speak to the sheriff by name and it's a different guy that has no idea what I'm talking about. He tells me it's a very common scam on internet dating sites and such. The 'father' then texts me later on in the day saying his daughter got suspended from school and I'll be arrested if I don't speak with him, at which point I tell him I'm aware it's a scam and that LE is very interested in meeting with him and his 'daughter'. Never heard back after that but it occurred to me that some of you might be also targets of this scam and might not know what to do.

Remember:

- Use either a burner phone, GV, or both for SA communications. Scammers will cross reference your number with social media apps to find out all about you.

- Don't use your real name for SA if you can avoid it.

- Even if the age of consent in your state is 16 or 17, it's still illegal to send / receive nude pics from minors and you will be prosecuted if the complaint is legitimate.

- If someone is trying to scam you for money, don't engage them and they'll eventually go away.

- No LE will ever encourage you to 'settle' a crime for money.

- 18 should be young enough for anyone on this board. Going younger will permanently alter your entire life as you know it.