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[QUOTE=SuStar;6065146]Neither the number she serviced nor her earnings are revealed by her statement.
Quit paying for it and you'll feel less angry.[/QUOTE]Or what I think we should do is stop paying attention to you and your preaching. There's a street corner somewhere you can offer your opinions. If that doesn't work, you could try "working" the corner instead.
[QUOTE=Tp1022;6065821]Or what I think we should do is stop paying attention to you[/QUOTE]Far more palatable than having the courage to face the music.
You'll carry responsibility for buying sex to your grave, whether you accept it or not.
[QUOTE=Tp1022;6065821]There's a street corner somewhere you can offer your opinions. If that doesn't work, you could try "working" the corner instead.[/QUOTE]There's a back alley where the trash dumpster sits.
It's the proper venue to play at having authority over online forum participation.
I'll be posting here until the administration says otherwise.
[QUOTE=CleveLoser;6065677]If the needs of these women are provided for, then theres no offer. Giving them drugs, a room, and whatever would be cheaper and safer than prostitution[/QUOTE]Providing education, employment training, and supportive services so vulnerable women can avoid criminality has been proposed.
"Giving them drugs" is never a remedy.
[QUOTE=CleveLoser;6065677]You just want to punish others[/QUOTE]The research shows that men hurt themselves and others by engaging in sex for hire.
Less hurtful to buy a male masturbator.
[QUOTE=SuStar;6066232]Far more palatable than having the courage to face the music.
You'll carry responsibility for buying sex to your grave, whether you accept it or not.
There's a back alley where the trash dumpster sits.
It's the proper venue to play at having authority over online forum participation.
I'll be posting here until the administration says otherwise.[/QUOTE][URL]https://tenor.com/view/clint-barton-bored-tired-jeremy-renner-gif-13795195[/URL]
[QUOTE=Chunks92;6065232]So because this happened to her, its ok that, another woman who thoroughly enjoys what they do should be arrested in her place for some political innuendo?[/QUOTE]Should there be objection to a mutually consensual agreement, between two adults, to exchange money for sex?
If we say that a woman is consenting to have sexual intercourse with a stranger, what should we mean?
Minimally, she made a conscious decision, free and self-chosen; she understood what she was consenting to; she had some reasonable alternative (other than homelessness, hunger, deprivation).
She is an adult, who knows what she's doing, is in charge of herself, can quit if she wants to, but has chosen to make money this way.
A controlling, dominating, brutal pimp or john is never a part of her life.
So the answer is that adults do generally have the right to make their own decisions, bad or good, if they aren't hurting anyone else.
On the other hand, probably no one would ever be pleased to learn that their own daughter, mother, sister, or partner has been involved in prostitution.
Apart from that, the reason there is opposition to prostitution is that most prostitution occurs under circumstances that are totally un-like the consensual version described above.
Research has found that women used in prostitution did not make an informed, adult decision.
Another finding is that a large percent of prostituted women had been previously sexually abused as children.
So are there no exceptions?
Are there no women who could do something else to survive, who have choices, but prefer sell themselves for sex?
Difficult to deny that there are at least some.
However, this group is very far from the reality of what happens to the majority of young women and girls who are swept into prostitution.
The question then becomes should public policy and laws be based on these ideal consensual situations, highly un-like the non-consensual ordeals of the majority of women engaged in prostitution?
[QUOTE=ThrobbinWood;6066284][URL]https://tenor.com/view/clint-barton-bored-tired-jeremy-renner-gif-13795195[/URL][/QUOTE][URL]https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-a-little-boredom-could-be-good-for-your-relationship-1456167350[/URL]
[URL]https://www.harleytherapy.co.uk/counselling/psychological-meaning-of-boredom.htm[/URL]
[QUOTE=SuStar;6066347]Should there be objection to a mutually consensual agreement, between two adults, to exchange money for sex?
If we say that a woman is consenting to have sexual intercourse with a stranger, what should we mean?
Minimally, she made a conscious decision, free and self-chosen; she understood what she was consenting to; she had some reasonable alternative (other than homelessness, hunger, deprivation).
She is an adult, who knows what she's doing, is in charge of herself, can quit if she wants to, but has chosen to make money this way.
A controlling, dominating, brutal pimp or john is never a part of her life.
So the answer is that adults do generally have the right to make their own decisions, bad or good, if they aren't hurting anyone else.
On the other hand, probably no one would ever be pleased to learn that their own daughter, mother, sister, or partner has been involved in prostitution.
Apart from that, the reason there is opposition to prostitution is that most prostitution occurs under circumstances that are totally un-like the consensual version described above.
Research has found that women used in prostitution did not make an informed, adult decision.
Another finding is that a large percent of prostituted women had been previously sexually abused as children.
So are there no exceptions?
Are there no women who could do something else to survive, who have choices, but prefer sell themselves for sex?
Difficult to deny that there are at least some.
However, this group is very far from the reality of what happens to the majority of young women and girls who are swept into prostitution.
The question then becomes should public policy and laws be based on these ideal consensual situations, highly un-like the non-consensual ordeals of the majority of women engaged in prostitution?[/QUOTE]I don't disagree with a lot of what you say. If that's the case, then again, focus on the actual trafficking situations. My preference is ladies in their late 30's and 40's, and the few ladies I've seen in their 20's are intelligent enough to not let some goon control their lives, more then can be said for a lot of white collar women LOL. So it makes sense why I haven't seen any ladies in a bad situation or being forced, nor would I. My good friend was busted a while back and she's in her mid 40's. No pimps, no bullshit. Society gained nothing from that arrest, and the law has no business telling me, that a 30 year old man and a 45 year old woman can't fuck. Its holding her back in life to this day, because of a politically charged operation that Yost said was "rescuing women. " I get what you're saying on public policy, but if youre gonna spend the money on the operation focus on what matters to get the most out of that investment, not running some bullshit operation that snares just anyone who happens to be unfortunate enough to show up, gives them a 20 minute interview, and the cops then make their decisions on how to control their life. All of a sudden magically after 20 minutes they think that gives them the right and they have enough knowledge of this persons personal life to entitle themselves to be their judge jury and executioner and to control every aspect of a grown womans life. its a joke! Also by running these fish in a barrel operations, they miss the actual point of their operations themselves, not dedicating the time to those who actually need to be rescued. I will say I could be incorrect in part of my ideas, they could be getting rescues / arrests off Craigslist or something other then SKG and maybe arent focusing on arresting solely the consenting ladies on SKG for their political innuendo. I wouldn't know, I don't use Craigslist and I'm not a scumbag like some of those dudes they get who offer 20 bucks. But in general, the current model of the operations needs serious refining. But thanks for at least trying to be open to understanding my point of view. Again, we both have valid points, a happy medium would be the best solution. But instead our government would rather spend our money on fueling mass incarceration.
[QUOTE=SuStar;6065053]Once again, you fail to grasp what she wrote.
Her choice did not include getting PTSD.
You are coldly refusing to admit that reality.[/QUOTE]Do you realize how many people get some form of PTSD from their shit jobs in our country? The idea that you can be fired for anything or nothing and you need to cater to every whim of your boss or coworker or you end up on the street and your dependents go without food is terrible. And for most of those jobs there is no sex or sexual exploitation (for many there is).
Just read about the horror stories from Starbucks workers who proly get treated better than most.
You act like this is different when these women make a ton more money and don't need to answer to nearly as many scumbags.
Regardless, it still boils down to you wanting to assign blame and punishment. If you wanted to "solve" the "problem" of sex for money then the answer is simple. Pay the ****** enough money and drugs that they don't need to *****. It would be way cheaper than what it already costs in terms of cops, stings, prosecutors, juries, etc.
[QUOTE=Chunks92;6066771]My good friend was busted a while back and she's in her mid 40's . . . because of a politically charged operation that Yost said was "rescuing women[/QUOTE]I am sorry that your friend was arrested.
[QUOTE=Chunks92;6066771]Society gained nothing from that arrest, and the law has no business telling me . . . .[/QUOTE]I don't know enough about the details of the operation in general to provide a comment, but I believe your account of unfairness for your friend.
[QUOTE=Chunks92;6066771]. . . But in general, the current model of the operations needs serious refining[/QUOTE]It should be scrutinized.
Too bad that Ohio legislators don't take a greater interest in oversight of Yost's trafficking interdiction.
[QUOTE=Chunks92;6066771]But thanks for at least trying to be open to understanding my point of view[/QUOTE]Thank you for sharing your experience and views, and reading my comments.
[QUOTE=Chunks92;6066771]Again, we both have valid points, a happy medium would be the best solution. But instead our government would rather spend our money on fueling mass incarceration[/QUOTE]I'd like to think that open discussion in this forum could lead to greater scrutiny of the issues in Columbus.
They do listen there, but the voices they hear must be many and clear.
[QUOTE=CleveLoser;6067182]Do you realize how many people get some form of PTSD from their shit jobs in our country[/QUOTE]Working conditions were worse at the beginning of the 20th century.
There's been progress since then, but obviously not enough.
[URL]https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2015/article/labor-law-highlights-1915-2015.htm[/URL]
How many people do you know personally that were diagnosed with PTSD as a result of working conditions at their jobs?
[QUOTE=CleveLoser;6067182]The idea that you can be fired for anything or nothing and you need to cater to every whim of your boss or coworker or you end up on the street. . .[/QUOTE]That's true of almost every job in America, isn't it?
What would be your ideal job and / or employer?
[QUOTE=CleveLoser;6067182]You act like this is different when these women make a ton more money and don't need to answer to nearly as many scumbags[/QUOTE]Are you paying more for sex than you can afford?
What keeps you from quitting?
[QUOTE=CleveLoser;6067182]Regardless, it still boils down to you wanting to assign blame and punishment[/QUOTE]Studies indicate that men who buy sex play a large role in harming the women.
Why should those studies be ignored?
[QUOTE=CleveLoser;6067182]If you wanted to "solve" the "problem" of sex for money then the answer is simple. Pay the ****** enough money and drugs that they don't need to *****. It would be way cheaper than what it already costs in terms of cops, stings, prosecutors, juries, etc.[/QUOTE]Thank you for sharing your view.
Just a reference to an interesting read about related issues.
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_and_Punishment[/URL]
[QUOTE=CleveLoser;6067182]You act like this is different when these women make a ton more money and don't need to answer to nearly as many scumbags[/QUOTE]How many workers in ordinary jobs do you know who get physically assaulted in their jobs?
How many do you know that don't get paid overtime for hours over 8 / day or 40 / week?
Isn't having sex about an expression of love?
Do you love the women you're with?
If so, why do you resent their earnings?
[QUOTE=SuStar;6068002]How many workers in ordinary jobs do you know who get physically assaulted in their jobs?
How many do you know that don't get paid overtime for hours over 8 / day or 40 / week?
Isn't having sex about an expression of love?
Do you love the women you're with?
If so, why do you resent their earnings?[/QUOTE]In addition to my pro hobby views, I am also quite the snake charmer of the nasty cobra that is human resources departments in the United States. Cleve is on the money on what goes on in menial positions in our country. I had a shitbag boss that tried to bribe a co worker into a promotion if she fucked him. She refused, I started dating the same woman, him and his cronies made up a bunch of bullshit that I was stealing money and hitting on a co worker and they got me sent me to HR. HR tried to get me to squeal on everything that went on at that store location, as she suspected drug usage which was factual but I am no snitch. I would not say a word about any of my boss's bullshit or admit to any of the false allegations. I said verbatim: "I refuse to tell you anything about what goes on here, its not hard, you should be able to figure it out. What this is about, is that I have started a relationship with a co worker and I have a target on me because of it, ill hold myself accountable for that, I have another job lined up, if you're going to fire me, fire me. " Turns out it was a low ranking crackhead manager that was doing the stealing and they got fired. Of course there would have been no proof on either the shit bag or me with regards to the situation with our female co worker, and by me not talking I actually kept my job in another store with the same company in exchange for a low level write up and got a dollar raise. Karma came my old boss's way, he was under scrutiny for the duration of his career there and he had to take a management position elsewhere paying less, and I would eventually move to a job paying more money then his old position when we worked together. And I did not rat him out or say a word about any of his actions, he was so stunned that I knew how to navigate HR as he was 40 and I was merely 24 at that time he was essentially humiliated by his whole staff. And me and the lady in question are still friends to this day.
This sort of thing happens in all jobs in society. Below is an article that shows that, unfortunate because the guy in question I actually quite enjoy his press conferences and think hes a pretty well spoken bloke. Could be factual, might be made up. Did he do it? Did he not? There is really no way to prove one way or the other when it comes to HR, HR is a nasty beast and they do whatever they feel necessary so they have to do the least amount of work, which is bullshit because so many livelihoods are on the chopping block and they are responsible for it solely based on what they "feel like doing that day. ". It could have been something as simple as him asking her out, (nothing wrong with that, romance happens in the work place all the time) and her taking it to an extreme to try to get paid. Or conversely, he could have been a dick. Or it could have been just a misunderstanding. We never will really know.
[URL]https://www.vindy.com/news/local-news/2021/06/ex-deputy-sues-county-over-sexual-harassment/[/URL]
If all men learned to conduct themselves properly, prostitution is much less exploitative then the work force. I've seen it first hand, in some of the most menial positions. Ever been a dishwasher or janitor? Shit is foul. But I do what I got to do to survive because autistic individuals are 90 percent of the time overlooked in society, even if they are savants like myself.
Good karma comes when you don't rat anyone out, or try to get them in trouble for low ranking petty bullshit. Yost should probably take notes and next time he decides to pass a bill, pass it to increase penalties on scumbags, not increase penalties on grown men meeting grown women like he did with HB 431. That would have been much better legislation, I think we all can agree on that.
Are you aware, that the mercer county drug task force chief got 60 days in jail for the misdemeanor charges, meanwhile the scumbag cuyahoga prosecutor got booked and released, a reduced charge, and 0 jail time for a heinous felony, both arrested by the same agency? Everyone in America should be aware of this travesty.
Now he did have a phenomenal attorney, the attorney in question is an absolute sorcerer, in addition to getting that charge reduced, he also got his client the lone reduction to disorderly conduct in the 9/21/2017 sting in one of the most vicious jurisdictions for misdemeanants in the state while everyone else in that sting was convicted on original third degree misdemeanor charges. But still despite this attorneys skills, how can a judge, prosecutor, anyone, be OK with reducing this heinous charge, a felony of the fifth degree, and be so aggressive with prosecuting petty third degree misdemeanors instead? And they hid that from the general public in the news BTW, I only know because I follow the cases on the docket sheets. Everyone should be offended by this including the high ranking cops themselves! But nobody talks about it!
C92.
Chunks, I'll tell you and the rest of us how, in my opinion, the legal system generally works. I gathered this through my experience which with all due respect I will not detail due to the fact that it would narrow down my identity a great deal.
Lawyers are all part of a cabal. From this cabal come the politicians (for the most part) who make the laws, the prosecutors who prosecute the laws, and the judges who impose sentences. They are all in bed together.
Defense lawyers get with the prosecutors and work out deals. In my experience, the defense lawyers give up their poorer clients in order to obtain favorable results for their clients who can pay outrageous fees. You know some of these guys ate charging $5,000 PER felony charged? And some of these guys are getting way more than that, depending on the case. Meanwhile, the poor schmuck who can't pay tens of thousands goes to the joint.
Not every lawyer does this, but most. Also, you can look up a case called Apprendi vs. United states, US Supreme court. It says a judge can't base sentencing on factors he decides without those factors being proven to a jury. Ohio requires those factors to be decided on by a judge to impose more than a minimum sentence or to impose anything other than concurrent sentences. Well, in fact in Ohio the judge does make those decisions, and as a result there are probably 20000 guys unconstitutionally imprisoned in Ohio. But the courts here ignore it, and you can't get a lawyer to take it up the chain. Its a really fucked up situation.
Cheech.
[QUOTE=Chunks92;6068272]I refuse to tell you anything about what goes on here . . . Good karma comes when you don't rat anyone out, or try to get them in trouble for low ranking petty bullshit [/QUOTE]Better to claim ignorance.
Refusal can be interpreted as insolence if not insubordination.
Otherwise a good practice for a worker when asked about a specific situation by HR.
You are to be commended.
My specific question in the previous post was how many workers in ordinary jobs do you know who get physically assaulted in their jobs.
I would suggest that LE officers may be routinely exposed to physical assault on the job.
I would also suggest that based on the stats from scholarly research studies, women selling sex are more likely to be exposed to physical assault than cops.
[QUOTE=Chunks92;6068272]If all men learned to conduct themselves properly, prostitution is much less exploitative then the work force[/QUOTE]
I am skeptical that enough men can be taught proper conduct to make a difference.
The numbers derived from scholarly research about men who buy sex suggest otherwise.
I haven't seen any numbers about recidivism among men who completed "john school".
There is no doubt that workers are frequently mistreated and often cannot readily get another job lined up.
Full employment, when anyone who wanted to work would almost instantly have multiple job opportunities, began to erode after the early 1960's.
The problem is there are only a handful of states that recognize a public policy exception to employment-at-will.
The exception is an employer can't fire an employee if the employer violates the state's public policy or a state or federal statute.
As always, it's never an easy trek for the employee who attempts to apply the exception to his circumstances.
[QUOTE=Chunks92;6068272]Yost should probably take notes and next time he decides to pass a bill, pass it to increase penalties on scumbags[/QUOTE]The problem with Yost is that the Ohio legislature is controlled by Republicans who support him and almost never question his actions.
The same appears to be the case with the electorate in Ohio, making Yost the overwhelming favorite for AG re-election and future gubernatorial candidate.
[QUOTE=Chunks92;6068272]Everyone should be offended by this including the high ranking cops themselves! But nobody talks about it[/QUOTE]Few Ohio voters appear to care about it, if they are even aware of it.
That is most unfortunate and sad.
[QUOTE=Cheech1;6069449]you can look up a case called Apprendi vs. United states, US Supreme court. It says a judge can't base sentencing on factors he decides without those factors being proven to a jury. Ohio requires those factors to be decided on by a judge to impose more than a minimum sentence or to impose anything other than concurrent sentences. Well, in fact in Ohio the judge does make those decisions[/QUOTE]
FYI:
Apprendi v. New Jersey, 530 USA 466,120 S. Ct. 2348 (2000)
[URL]https://www.lexisnexis.com/community/casebrief/p/casebrief-apprendi-v-new-jersey[/URL]
[URL]https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/530/466.html[/URL]
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apprendi_v._New_Jersey[/URL]
The Ohio Supreme Court reviewed four cases in light of Apprendi.
State v. Foster, 109 Ohio St. 3 d 1, 2006-Ohio-856 (2006)
[URL]https://www.supremecourt.ohio.gov/rod/docs/pdf/0/2006/2006-Ohio-856.pdf[/URL]