"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

Only recently (a week or so ago), congress voted to repeal some privacy rules adopted by the FCC under the Obama administration.

These rules among other things mean ISPs can sell your browser history without being required to get your consent. Some ISPs (Verizon and AT&T come to mind) have pledged to never sell this data, but some have not commented.

It would suck for an SD's employer to run a search on him as a "character check", and see a bunch of hits for SA, BP, or this site that you accessed from your personal Internet account and computer. I think the general assumption is that the ISPs would only sell this data in a format that's not directly tied to personal information, but hey they are in the business to make a buck so who knows. And even if they don't list your browsing history next to your name and address, it can be put together through correlation techniques.

So be careful all.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3342619]Only recently (a week or so ago), congress voted to repeal some privacy rules adopted by the FCC under the Obama administration.

These rules among other things mean ISPs can sell your browser history without being required to get your consent. Some ISPs (Verizon and AT&T come to mind) have pledged to never sell this data, but some have not commented.

It would suck for an SD's employer to run a search on him as a "character check", and see a bunch of hits for SA, BP, or this site that you accessed from your personal Internet account and computer. I think the general assumption is that the ISPs would only sell this data in a format that's not directly tied to personal information, but hey they are in the business to make a buck so who knows. And even if they don't list your browsing history next to your name and address, it can be put together through correlation techniques.

So be careful all.[/QUOTE]The one way to fight this is to do what I do. Use the Tor browser, which prevents the ISP from logging the sites you are going to. Read the great book 'Data and Goliath' for all the privacy things you should be doing on the net. Not just to keep safe from sugarbabies, but from the NSA, etc.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;3342515]Pretty good thoughts in an ideal world but impossible to police. You can report them but 30 minutes later they have a new profile up. In the ideal world the girls would report the mongers who first correspondence is "How much or first pic is their dick. Bad behavior is rampant on both sides. I've read several times where mongers have been suspended from the account for a day but never had their profile cancelled. It won't happen often because the paying members is what fuels the site. The premise of the site is built on nsa, mutual beneficial arrangements and no drama. Technically by law its against the law. The sex is a given to the arrangement, same as BP, CL or any other sex site. One could go to POF, [URL]MATCH.COM[/URL] or any dating site and apply the techniques there but we don't. Why we don't for most part is most of those women would be pissed to be offered money for sex. Also the age group most hunt in is virtually non existent on those sites. The ratio of young women looking for an older man is in the women s favor there. On Sa its in the guys favor, usually 5 to 1 or higher. Why is it higher there, because of the mutual beneficial arrangements. Financial aid for the implied sex. All you see on the sd / sb threads is the rant about time wasters, gps, online arrangements or arm candy. The guys that actually support any on the list is considered a threat to the bowl for giving these girls help without the sex and putting these ideas in their head. The implied sex is why we're in the bowl. I'm sure you wouldn't be in the bowl without the sex. I know I wouldn't. Trying to police the girls to SAis basically a waste of time other than to out them on the threads the way most sd / sb threads do now. Jmho.[/QUOTE]There's one piece of faulty logic, though. It costs SA nothing to ban a girl, a lot to ban a guy. Girls come on free. Of course, the lure of the 4-6 x as many girls as guys is what gets us to pay our membership, but it's not like any one girl is crucial. Especially when she's doing practices that put the whole site's business at risk. This is why SA should have the report function, and why we should use it.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3342709]There's one piece of faulty logic, though. It costs SA nothing to ban a girl, a lot to ban a guy. Girls come on free. Of course, the lure of the 4-6 x as many girls as guys is what gets us to pay our membership, but it's not like any one girl is crucial. Especially when she's doing practices that put the whole site's business at risk. This is why SA should have the report function, and why we should use it.[/QUOTE]Not only this, but SA's revenue per user is so incredibly over-the-top compared to any other consumer on-line service. How many other on line consumer services are capable of charging $70 per user per month?! It's largely unheard of. With margins like that, SA needs to worry about one thing and one thing only: not getting shut down or incurring hinderances to payment transactions due to legal issues or bad publicity.

Brandon Wade is smart enough to know that mongers have many free options for finding escorts. He's not a stupid enough businessman to jeopardize his $70 per user revenue by competing directly with free options that encourage illegal activity. His business model requires preservation of the sugaring lifestyle to survive and he knows it.

As far as reporting girls, yes I'm sure they will create a new account and come back, but at some point they will get tired of getting banned and will learn to behave themselves somewhat better, and start at least behaving like an SB rather than an escort.

Or, they will just realize that most men (even sex addicts) are smart enough to not pay $70 a month to meet the same pros and UTRs they can meet elsewhere for free, and unless they are brain-dead they will come to the conclusion that SA is not their party, and they should stick to the escort scene.

I've notice that a lot of girls are on the site for one day or up to a week. And it's seems like they disappear and never return to the site. I recently returned to the website and I notice it. These are quality profiles the ones I really like. Based on the information provided in the description. They same to be genuine. Any theories on why this happens or have any of you guys talked to an sb about this before?

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;3342515]Pretty good thoughts in an ideal world but impossible to police. You can report them but 30 minutes later they have a new profile up. In the ideal world the girls would report the mongers who first correspondence is "How much or first pic is their dick. Bad behavior is rampant on both sides. I've read several times where mongers have been suspended from the account for a day but never had their profile cancelled. It won't happen often because the paying members is what fuels the site. The premise of the site is built on nsa, mutual beneficial arrangements and no drama. Technically by law its against the law. The sex is a given to the arrangement, same as BP, CL or any other sex site. One could go to POF, [URL]MATCH.COM[/URL] or any dating site and apply the techniques there but we don't. Why we don't for most part is most of those women would be pissed to be offered money for sex. Also the age group most hunt in is virtually non existent on those sites. The ratio of young women looking for an older man is in the women s favor there. On Sa its in the guys favor, usually 5 to 1 or higher. Why is it higher there, because of the mutual beneficial arrangements. Financial aid for the implied sex. All you see on the sd / sb threads is the rant about time wasters, gps, online arrangements or arm candy. The guys that actually support any on the list is considered a threat to the bowl for giving these girls help without the sex and putting these ideas in their head. The implied sex is why we're in the bowl. I'm sure you wouldn't be in the bowl without the sex. I know I wouldn't. Trying to police the girls to SAis basically a waste of time other than to out them on the threads the way most sd / sb threads do now. Jmho.[/QUOTE]Two points I want to make here. First to FarFar Away. Speaking for the NC sugar bowls, you are exactly correct in that the respective forums (and bowl markets) are drawing the BP escort guys who have not quite gotten it yet. Nothing wrong with the BP escort scene bc I cut my teeth on the pros for 18 months, writing up 30 plus reviews on the oThER site before stumbling (thank god) onto the bowl scene. I had to up my game of course and adjust my approach, tbh took a few months but now with the help of the Richmond brothers 20 months later I have this down to an art and a science. Since BP has basically gone away it is no surprise that just as SA is drawing the UTR pros it is now also drawing the escort mongers. Unfortunately some of the escort mongers won't make a smooth transition, at least not without our help. What I have done is split my posting time between Richmond and Raleigh with the intention of educating / coaching those NC brothers that need some extra perspective. One very critical technique that JLZ kept preaching and now I am a major believer. Never commit to $ until AFTER the FC romp. I personally use high quality art type cards from a boutique card shop and sign my name and the date, then put a combination of gift cards and cash, then slip it into her purse. If the SB is a repeat quality I put in $$, if not then $. 50, but invariably if they get past my M & G they will be worth $$. I have never had a SB complain but I have had a few on subsequent FC romps try to negotiate a higher gift. My response in my head is "Goodbye" and "Next". The second point I want to make is to John HC and the brothers in general. You may be right about the futility of doing the SA report, so I have a couple of thoughts. One is to coach the brothers in that situation to simply respond back to the POT that she is putting our "community" at risk by blatantly quoting $ numbers in an SA inbox. Maybe do that in a private text but def don't do that in front of the SA eyes. Also, we have to allow that it may be the POTS way of blowing the guy off (unattractive pic, corny messages, etc) but she needs to know its a bad move. Just my three cents.

Hey guys! I'm going to be up in Richmond this week and I was wondering if anyone has any info they could share about Hard2 hndlMilf? I'm thinking about getting together with her but I can't find anything about her. Any help would be appreciated. I'm happy to offer any advice I can if any of you are ever down in Raleigh.

[QUOTE=Falar;3342755]I've notice that a lot of girls are on the site for one day or up to a week. And it's seems like they disappear and never return to the site. I recently returned to the website and I notice it. These are quality profiles the ones I really like. Based on the information provided in the description. They same to be genuine. Any theories on why this happens or have any of you guys talked to an sb about this before?[/QUOTE]I'd bet this is peculiar to the particular area you've been searching in. I haven't noticed that in my area. I haven't heard others comment on that. Are you in Richmond? This seems like a dumb question, but this thread has become the de facto national thread for SDs, and people from all over the US post here (I'm from the west coast).

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3343091]I'd bet this is peculiar to the particular area you've been searching in. I haven't noticed that in my area. I haven't heard others comment on that. Are you in Richmond? This seems like a dumb question, but this thread has become the de facto national thread for SDs, and people from all over the US post here (I'm from the west coast).[/QUOTE]I'm on the east coast, Florida to be exact. I've been looking at the sign up date and last login date. I search the new profile first and work by way back to the older profiles.

[QUOTE=Falar;3343109]I'm on the east coast, Florida to be exact. I've been looking at the sign up date and last login date. I search the new profile first and work by way back to the older profiles.[/QUOTE]You could look at the postings of the mod of the LA Sugar thread, Hollywood Guy. He strongly believes that the ones to get are the new ones on the site. Again, every market is local, but he has said that new girls on SA get bombarded with messages, and attractive ones are getting offers of sugar to meet, sometimes ridiculous (thousands). Of course, this pollutes the market for all of us. Anyway, his target demographic is the young ones who really could stand some instruction / indoctrination, so obviously, a girl who has been on the site for months or longer may become jaded. Also, note that if a girl wants to present herself as a newbie, she can just open a new profile that shows a more recent sign-up date using a new email address. Having been on SA for nearly a year, I certainly recognize people who appear to have been on the site only a few days. Not sure if you meant or mentioned this, but you can sort search results by Newest, which means when the profile was created.

[QUOTE=StormyTuesday;3342905] One very critical technique that JLZ kept preaching and now I am a major believer. Never commit to $ until AFTER the FC romp. [/QUOTE]It's not an exaggeration to say that simple technique alone would save the bowl, if it were adopted by enough SDs, because more than anything it highlights the difference between sugar dating and anything illegal.

In every case I've heard of where an SD was arrested and made the news, the arrest was made when the girl (not the SD) told the cops that she had agreed to sex for money. Without that key element, there is no arrest, there is no case, there is no law broken. Without arrests, there is no negative light cast on the bowl.

I've found girls actually prefer the legal approach, they just don't know how to go about it. They expect the experienced older guy to have the answers and respect it when he does.

Example exchange:

SB: "Can I ask what my allowance would be?

SD: "Neither of us would be wise to discuss direct offers for sex, it's illegal and not safe for either of us. My past SBs have been very happy with the gifts I provide, I can tell you that, and I think you will be too. " Then you can mention the possibility of more elaborate agreements after you've met and trust has been established.

Example of typical answer from SB: "That makes sense, I'm glad you know what you're doing because I don't! LOL".

Sometimes you get: "Well I need to know how much my allowance is". Some of the SB blogs written by SBs encourage them to push for a predetermined amount, without realizing the risk of the situation. Sometimes a bit of subtle persistence pulls them away from that mentality and down the right path, but sometimes they are a lost cause and try to tie you up in an endless loop of money negotiating. That's okay though, because if they are a lost cause you want to know this as early as possible in the exchange. Tell her negotiations aren't sexy and move on to the next. For every girl that won't do things the reasonable way, there are five more that will. The high quality girls will understand that you've just removed a huge amount of risk from the situation, and made her that much more comfortable about meeting. At this point her curiosity is piqued, and she is driven by the mystery of the situation.

[QUOTE=Falar;3342755]I've notice that a lot of girls are on the site for one day or up to a week. And it's seems like they disappear and never return to the site. I recently returned to the website and I notice it. These are quality profiles the ones I really like. Based on the information provided in the description. They same to be genuine. Any theories on why this happens or have any of you guys talked to an sb about this before?[/QUOTE]I see that all the time too. I think it's mostly girls who decide the site is not what they were expecting. Too many guys treating them like prostitutes and expecting sex on the first meeting. That's the number one complaint I hear about the site from girls I meet on there, at least.

The only hope is to catch them when they're new before other guys have driven them away. But it's tough because, despite the site's claims about their girl-to-guy ratio, new girls get flooded with 100's of messages a day at first if they are 18-22 and hot.

[QUOTE=GiantG;3343031]Hey guys! I'm going to be up in Richmond this week and I was wondering if anyone has any info they could share about Hard2 hndlMilf? I'm thinking about getting together with her but I can't find anything about her. Any help would be appreciated. I'm happy to offer any advice I can if any of you are ever down in Raleigh.[/QUOTE]Met with her once about 6 months ago. A lot of drama and almost didn't go thru with the deed but did and was a lot of fun. Set up a second date with her and she flaked on me so blew her off. I think she's got a lot going on.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3343267]You could look at the postings of the mod of the LA Sugar thread, Hollywood Guy. He strongly believes that the ones to get are the new ones on the site. Again, every market is local, but he has said that new girls on SA get bombarded with messages, and attractive ones are getting offers of sugar to meet, sometimes ridiculous (thousands). Of course, this pollutes the market for all of us. Anyway, his target demographic is the young ones who really could stand some instruction / indoctrination, so obviously, a girl who has been on the site for months or longer may become jaded. Also, note that if a girl wants to present herself as a newbie, she can just open a new profile that shows a more recent sign-up date using a new email address. Having been on SA for nearly a year, I certainly recognize people who appear to have been on the site only a few days. Not sure if you meant or mentioned this, but you can sort search results by Newest, which means when the profile was created.[/QUOTE]Thanks, I appreciate the response. It definitely makes sense. I would prefer to meet the new ones also.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3342709]There's one piece of faulty logic, though. It costs SA nothing to ban a girl, a lot to ban a guy. Girls come on free. Of course, the lure of the 4-6 x as many girls as guys is what gets us to pay our membership, but it's not like any one girl is crucial. Especially when she's doing practices that put the whole site's business at risk. This is why SA should have the report function, and why we should use it.[/QUOTE]The best bet is a burner phone with unlimited data. Pay with cash each month, and Tmobile / Sprint don't have a clue who you are. Second best bet is to use a VPN service like Priviate Internet Acess, and pay with a prepaid card or bitcoin.

The Tor exit node sees your data, the phone company sees your data, the VPN provider sees your data. The only thing you can do is cut out them knowing you.

[QUOTE=UKnowWho;3343348]I see that all the time too. I think it's mostly girls who decide the site is not what they were expecting. Too many guys treating them like prostitutes and expecting sex on the first meeting. That's the number one complaint I hear about the site from girls I meet on there, at least.

The only hope is to catch them when they're new before other guys have driven them away. But it's tough because, despite the site's claims about their girl-to-guy ratio, new girls get flooded with 100's of messages a day at first if they are 18-22 and hot.[/QUOTE]Definitely, I would love to attract those types. I wrote my profile with that in mind to attract those type of women. So far I've been getting favorite responses. But the new ones are limited in the area.

I finally got back together with an old SB, hot, tiny, tattooed AA girl in her 20's. I had pretty much given up on her since being stood up around Thanksgiving. We would send messages occasionally, and I would send her 20 now and then for an emergency. I finally saw her again tonight and had pornstar sex for an hour. Definitely was worth the wait and keeping in contact. Gave her. 6 when we parted. Really seemed to connect and had a great conversation. It's hard to believe how sh##ty some of these girls lives are. She talked about going away on weekends with me. I'll keep low expectations of course. Just letting other guys know you can definitely have a SB w / very small budget.

[QUOTE=StormyTuesday;3342905.] Never commit to $ until AFTER the FC romp. .[/QUOTE]So what is happening to the Pot SBs, they are being scammed by Pump and dumpers. These are the "road test" guys who want to sample the goods, or worse, just want a cheap source of a higher quality escort. SA is becoming the new BP and CL. Girls are becoming increasingly wise to this technique. Many of us wouldn't intentionally scam these girls, but it happens with great frequency. Unless they are escorts, they don't want a one time lay. Believe it or not, our dicks aren't made out of gold and the girls are here for the financial help ,not a porn star banger.

So how to stay safe from LE? Don't discuss sex and money at the same visit. Don't talk to them like you talk to escorts-running through the menu of services for a 15 min Pop. And avoid the obvious escorts, even if SA won't dump them. Pickup artists who have game might be able to pull this off IRL, but many of the girls are learning about one and done ghosts.

[QUOTE=OriolesMagic;3344141]I finally got back together with an old SB, hot, tiny, tattooed AA girl in her 20's. I had pretty much given up on her since being stood up around Thanksgiving. We would send messages occasionally, and I would send her 20 now and then for an emergency. I finally saw her again tonight and had pornstar sex for an hour. Definitely was worth the wait and keeping in contact. Gave her. 6 when we parted. Really seemed to connect and had a great conversation. It's hard to believe how sh##ty some of these girls lives are. She talked about going away on weekends with me. I'll keep low expectations of course. Just letting other guys know you can definitely have a SB w / very small budget.[/QUOTE]The value of staying in touch with former SBs or just contacts in general is probably underrated. The best thing to do is get them off of the website and onto some other form of communication (text, email etc) as soon as possible, then establish enough conversation so that if you don't have time to meet her immediately, she'll remember you later on. I've had 100% success rate in re-initiating contact with POTS anywhere from 6 mos to 3 years earlier. I usually just send them a recent pic and make sure they remember talking to me, and let them know when I plan to be in their area. The only reason I sometimes opt for a new SB is because usually former POTS are long-gone from the site, and I worry that they might have changed (gained a few pounds or otherwise gone downhill or whatever), so sometimes I just opt to seek a fresh face.

I've had equally good luck with former SBs that I've taken to the FC, invites to call them anytime I'm in town. I can't say the success rate is 100% with that, more like 99%, only because I had one go sideways. She literally took offense and got pissed when I tried to gift her after an entire night of fantasy-grade fucking, and left the hotel at around 5 am in a huff (not just because she was insulted by the gift, but we were both drinking that night, so one snarky comment or misunderstanding sometimes leads to another). Turns out she was looking for something different, already had plenty of money. In a follow up conversation she apologized (as did I), and told me all of the reasons for stress in her life and why she went all hormonal. Water under the bridge, but I wouldn't see her again.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3344770]The value of staying in touch with former SBs or just contacts in general is probably underrated. The best thing to do is get them off of the website and onto some other form of communication (text, email etc) as soon as possible, then establish enough conversation so that if you don't have time to meet her immediately, she'll remember you later on. I've had 100% success rate in re-initiating contact with POTS anywhere from 6 mos to 3 years earlier. I usually just send them a recent pic and make sure they remember talking to me, and let them know when I plan to be in their area. The only reason I sometimes opt for a new SB is because usually former POTS are long-gone from the site, and I worry that they might have changed (gained a few pounds or otherwise gone downhill or whatever), so sometimes I just opt to seek a fresh face.

I've had equally good luck with former SBs that I've taken to the FC, invites to call them anytime I'm in town. I can't say the success rate is 100% with that, more like 99%, only because I had one go sideways. She literally took offense and got pissed when I tried to gift her after an entire night of fantasy-grade fucking, and left the hotel at around 5 am in a huff (not just because she was insulted by the gift, but we were both drinking that night, so one snarky comment or misunderstanding sometimes leads to another). Turns out she was looking for something different, already had plenty of money. In a follow up conversation she apologized (as did I), and told me all of the reasons for stress in her life and why she went all hormonal. Water under the bridge, but I wouldn't see her again.[/QUOTE]I agree. I just did this myself. Just had brunch w / my first SB, total wet dream, ModelMILF. She's still got the most amazing bangin' bod, petite, slim, w / great full tits, Playboy model quality. We really have a good relationship, not just an arrangement - - that ended because of distance. I contacted her both by text and email to set it up, and she did not get the latter b / c she says she isn't using SA or that sugar address anymore. I believe this both b / c I am on there and would see her unless she does what I do, hide her profile from search, and that we have a good enough relationship that I trust her. She's facing some $ challenges just now, and I was happy to help her out. She showered me with affection and gratitude when she opened my 'Christmas card'. I just can't safely get to her where she lives, but when my SO is out of the country, I have no doubt we'll see each other.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;3344567]So what is happening to the Pot SBs, they are being scammed by Pump and dumpers. These are the "road test" guys who want to sample the goods, or worse, just want a cheap source of a higher quality escort. SA is becoming the new BP and CL. Girls are becoming increasingly wise to this technique. Many of us wouldn't intentionally scam these girls, but it happens with great frequency. Unless they are escorts, they don't want a one time lay. Believe it or not, our dicks aren't made out of gold and the girls are here for the financial help ,not a porn star banger.[/QUOTE]The issue with some of the opinions posted here is that we tend to forget that our opinions are based only on our own experiences, and that our perspective is limited by how vast (or narrow) the expanse of those experiences happen to be. When opinions get posted as fact (which can happen unintentionally -- I'm guilty of this too) is when the value of these discussions becomes diminished.

For example, my experiences couldn't be more different than what you've described above. I usually try to get in the girls head a little bit about what she is really looking for. Is she only in it for money? Is she in it for love (surprisingly common)? Or something else? Most of the girls I hook up with either have something else going on in their lives (boyfriend, fiance, etc) but they want some excitement. I actually like to target this type of SB because I feel if she has something to lose, we are on more equal ground. Sometimes I don't even know whether to believe some of these girls when they tell me they cant get their boyfriend to fuck them because they think he's addicted to porn and jerks off all day, to me it's hard to imagine someone denying the opportunity to fuck them several times per day (I know I would), but apparently porn addiction is a growing problem for some of these girls. I've met some of the hottest strippers you can imagine tell me the same thing, their ex was a dud in bed because of porn addiction.

Then there is another category of girls that does seek some level of financial help. What I hear often is something along the lines of "I've always been attracted to older guys. Why would I want to date some guy my age that lives with his parents and spends their money? I can't respect that, I want a man not a boy". The exact wording varies from girl to girl, but it is a repeating theme that I hear often.

And, I try to avoid the ones that are looking for something beyond the adventurous aspect (I. E. That want emotional attachment). I make it clear I want something NSA and that I'm not emotionally available, so if they start acting lovey-dovey or talking about non-gifted dates, I usually start slowly backing off of communications with her. Why? Because I explained what I'm about in the very beginning and before we even met, and if they put me in a situation to have to explain it yet again, I see it as unfair. The way I look at it, my only obligation is to not mislead any of them.

Nobody gets hurt the way I do it. There is no expectation of any guaranteed or ongoing obligation from her or from me. The world of dating, sugar or otherwise, can be unpredictable. For every girl that claims "she got taken advantage of", there are 5 SDs that got flaked on, scammed, or threatened.

In all but the rarest of cases, when a female tells you tales of how she has been used, there is one of two things going on: Either she is trying to appeal to your inner chivalrous hero in order to get sympathy (and thus better treatment), or she is just spouting the old "all guys are jerks" BS in order to make an excuse not to treat you properly. This is just Female Mind 101 stuff. I can't tell you how many sob stories I've heard, only to find out through social media that it's absolutely nothing like they told me. For the most part, despite what they say, these girls are no strangers to one-night-stands, and as long as they are the ones pumping and dumping, all is fair in love and war, she can date whoever she wants (but if they guy rejects her instead of vice versa, or meets someone he likes better, he is evil).

In my case all of my girls know I'm a traveling and somewhat fleeting date, and they may see me multiple times or they may not. All of them are fine with the situation, even if they tell a different story so they can have their way with a different SD.

Are there some guys that are scammers out there? Sure, just as there are SBs that are. But I think these are the exception and not the rule, and bottom line is that casual sex is an adult game and only adults should play it. It doesn't always turn out the way exactly as we'd like, but very little does in life.

Just saw a new profile. In the "looking for" she says that she expects a "Substantial" allowance I. E. 10 grad a month. I had a good laugh. I wish I could be their to see the look on their faces when the reality hits. LOL.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3345082]The issue with some of the opinions posted here is that we tend to forget that our opinions are based only on our own experiences, and that our perspective is limited by how vast (or narrow) the expanse of those experiences happen to be. When opinions get posted as fact (which can happen unintentionally -- I'm guilty of this too) is when the value of these discussions becomes diminished.

For example, my experiences couldn't be more different than what you've described above. I usually try to get in the girls head a little bit about what she is really looking for. Is she only in it for money? Is she in it for love (surprisingly common)? Or something else? Most of the girls I hook up with either have something else going on in their lives (boyfriend, fiance, etc) but they want some excitement. I actually like to target this type of SB because I feel if she has something to lose, we are on more equal ground. Sometimes I don't even know whether to believe some of these girls when they tell me they cant get their boyfriend to fuck them because they think he's addicted to porn and jerks off all day, to me it's hard to imagine someone denying the opportunity to fuck them several times per day (I know I would), but apparently porn addiction is a growing problem for some of these girls. I've met some of the hottest strippers you can imagine tell me the same thing, their ex was a dud in bed because of porn addiction.

Then there is another category of girls that does seek some level of financial help. What I hear often is something along the lines of "I've always been attracted to older guys. Why would I want to date some guy my age that lives with his parents and spends their money? I can't respect that, I want a man not a boy". The exact wording varies from girl to girl, but it is a repeating theme that I hear often.

And, I try to avoid the ones that are looking for something beyond the adventurous aspect (I. E. That want emotional attachment). I make it clear I want something NSA and that I'm not emotionally available, so if they start acting lovey-dovey or talking about non-gifted dates, I usually start slowly backing off of communications with her. Why? Because I explained what I'm about in the very beginning and before we even met, and if they put me in a situation to have to explain it yet again, I see it as unfair. The way I look at it, my only obligation is to not mislead any of them.

Nobody gets hurt the way I do it. There is no expectation of any guaranteed or ongoing obligation from her or from me. The world of dating, sugar or otherwise, can be unpredictable. For every girl that claims "she got taken advantage of", there are 5 SDs that got flaked on, scammed, or threatened.

In all but the rarest of cases, when a female tells you tales of how she has been used, there is one of two things going on: Either she is trying to appeal to your inner chivalrous hero in order to get sympathy (and thus better treatment), or she is just spouting the old "all guys are jerks" BS in order to make an excuse not to treat you properly. This is just Female Mind 101 stuff. I can't tell you how many sob stories I've heard, only to find out through social media that it's absolutely nothing like they told me. For the most part, despite what they say, these girls are no strangers to one-night-stands, and as long as they are the ones pumping and dumping, all is fair in love and war, she can date whoever she wants (but if they guy rejects her instead of vice versa, or meets someone he likes better, he is evil).

In my case all of my girls know I'm a traveling and somewhat fleeting date, and they may see me multiple times or they may not. All of them are fine with the situation, even if they tell a different story so they can have their way with a different SD.

Are there some guys that are scammers out there? Sure, just as there are SBs that are. But I think these are the exception and not the rule, and bottom line is that casual sex is an adult game and only adults should play it. It doesn't always turn out the way exactly as we'd like, but very little does in life.[/QUOTE]Well said JL as your wisdom continues to be the inspiration for many of us to keep at it in the bowl. I have come across most of the types you have described. The biggest change I have noted in the 2+ years I have been playing in the bowl is how many now are just ignoring may initial message. Being that I am over 55 is one part and I assume having high message volume on their end is another. Also many are just tired of dealing with guys expecting BP type girls in the bowl. I'd like to think I've polished my profile and my contact messages to bring in the type of SB I am looking for. But so far I seem to be getting UTR types this year rather a SB who is happy with 3 or 4 dates a month to help her along in life. Maybe the right one is just a click away this month on SA.

[QUOTE=JustLonely;3345726]Well said JL as your wisdom continues to be the inspiration for many of us to keep at it in the bowl. I have come across most of the types you have described. The biggest change I have noted in the 2+ years I have been playing in the bowl is how many now are just ignoring may initial message. Being that I am over 55 is one part and I assume having high message volume on their end is another. Also many are just tired of dealing with guys expecting BP type girls in the bowl. I'd like to think I've polished my profile and my contact messages to bring in the type of SB I am looking for. But so far I seem to be getting UTR types this year rather a SB who is happy with 3 or 4 dates a month to help her along in life. Maybe the right one is just a click away this month on SA.[/QUOTE]I also confess to 56 (optimistic, but can pass), and it's true many are resistant to my first contact. I list married on my profile as well, and I know that there are quite a few girls (most commonly, younger asians) who don't want to date married men, only some of them stating it in the profile. I try to put in an initial sentence that catches the eye b / c it can be seen in the message list without opening it. It's been frustrating to me when a girl not only doesn't respond to a message, but I can see she hasn't read it. She has decided to do that based on what she can see in her inbox, so really try to get a hook in there. I use some general ones for my 3 message types, but you might also try putting something in specific to her profile.

My first message is a pretty general, nice guy one, with additions customized to her profile. If she reads it and does not reply, I come back in a few days with a couple of approaches. Very young ones get something about you may not have a lot of experience, I'm a great mentor, guys your age suck, etc. The most successful thing I've used that gets women to seriously look at my profile is asking them about being kinky / submissive. I think that has to be an assumption about any woman on SA. My nice guy message goes nowhere. My message about being naughty gets a read, perhaps a request for my private photo (full face). Sometimes it stops there. I have had a few come back w / 'no, I'm not submissive', and I explain the basis of my asking, then continue the conversation. At least I've gotten a rise out of them.

I've got one other I use for the type of college girls whose bathwater you'd drink, basically promising in a romantic way a certain kind of relationship. I am conversing w / a 19 YO incredibly beautiful and hot girl right now who I got in this way. The lesson I've learned by mistakes made is that I have to slow play these. She's getting comfortable w / the bowl and me, and everything needs to be her idea. It could take a month or two to land this fish. It will be worth it if it happens. I have a M&G w / a 22 YO tomorrow, also a college girl, and I played it the same way over a few weeks. In an early message, though, she asked me how initial meetings worked, and I explained very generally what the practices were. Clearly, she was interested in the bowl, and she's gotten comfortable enough w/ me to try it. Sexy, a dancer (not a stripper), tall, slender, flat.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3345743]I also confess to 56 (optimistic, but can pass), and it's true many are resistant to my first contact. I list married on my profile as well, and I know that there are quite a few girls (most commonly, younger asians) who don't want to date married men, only some of them stating it in the profile. I try to put in an initial sentence that catches the eye b / c it can be seen in the message list without opening it. It's been frustrating to me when a girl not only doesn't respond to a message, but I can see she hasn't read it. She has decided to do that based on what she can see in her inbox, so really try to get a hook in there. I use some general ones for my 3 message types, but you might also try putting something in specific to her profile.

My first message is a pretty general, nice guy one, with additions customized to her profile. If she reads it and does not reply, I come back in a few days with a couple of approaches. Very young ones get something about you may not have a lot of experience, I'm a great mentor, guys your age suck, etc. The most successful thing I've used that gets women to seriously look at my profile is asking them about being kinky / submissive. I think that has to be an assumption about any woman on SA. My nice guy message goes nowhere. My message about being naughty gets a read, perhaps a request for my private photo (full face). Sometimes it stops there. I have had a few come back w / 'no, I'm not submissive', and I explain the basis of my asking, then continue the conversation. At least I've gotten a rise out of them.

I've got one other I use for the type of college girls whose bathwater you'd drink, basically promising in a romantic way a certain kind of relationship. I am conversing w / a 19 YO incredibly beautiful and hot girl right now who I got in this way. The lesson I've learned by mistakes made is that I have to slow play these. She's getting comfortable w / the bowl and me, and everything needs to be her idea. It could take a month or two to land this fish. It will be worth it if it happens. I have a M&G w / a 22 YO tomorrow, also a college girl, and I played it the same way over a few weeks. In an early message, though, she asked me how initial meetings worked, and I explained very generally what the practices were. Clearly, she was interested in the bowl, and she's gotten comfortable enough w/ me to try it. Sexy, a dancer (not a stripper), tall, slender, flat.[/QUOTE]Good advice! Love this quote, "college girls whose bathwater you'd drink". My first SB was a 20 yo VCU student that had me feeling that way. Been looking for that same feeling ever since as we connected better than any of the dozens I've meet in person ever since.

[QUOTE=JustLonely;3345726]Well said JL as your wisdom continues to be the inspiration for many of us to keep at it in the bowl. I have come across most of the types you have described. The biggest change I have noted in the 2+ years I have been playing in the bowl is how many now are just ignoring may initial message. Being that I am over 55 is one part and I assume having high message volume on their end is another. Also many are just tired of dealing with guys expecting BP type girls in the bowl. I'd like to think I've polished my profile and my contact messages to bring in the type of SB I am looking for. But so far I seem to be getting UTR types this year rather a SB who is happy with 3 or 4 dates a month to help her along in life. Maybe the right one is just a click away this month on SA.[/QUOTE]The reasons you cited could definitely be a factor, but I personally witnessed a huge shift in on line dating communications reliability right around the time smart phones became mainstream and the dating sites made some of the functionality mobile-accessible (not just sugar dating but the same was true with other dating sites). Then, when SA came out with their mobile app, I noticed an increasing level of flakiness with initial contacts. I attribute this to a number of factors:

Smart phones, tablets, apps and the related constant influx of distractions, instant messages et al, has all but obliterated the attention span of the typical Gen Z girl, and to some extent same is true with millennials. They read a message, intend to respond, then get distracted with something else and forget to follow up. Something is always tugging at their attention. Too many messages flying in too many directions on too many apps as opposed to all dating interest hitting a single inbox. This results in failure to respond (I. E. Reading one message and proceeding to the next message before replying, repeat 10-12 times. Oops forgot to get back to writing a response to message #1).

Add to that, the tiny screens of phones makes it difficult to communicate effectively. In the old days of email, she might have had a message she marked for follow up or even made a mental note to come back to half way up the screen on a laptop monitor, and even if she proceeded reading farther down the list, she still had a visual to remind her to to back to messages higher up. Only so much information can be displayed on a phone at once, so she has to do a lot of swiping back and forth to try to juggle the same amount of information that was easier on her computer. Plus, a lot of these girls are just not masterfully organized people, which makes the problem worse.

Then, the convenience of mobile (easy access from anywhere) becomes it's biggest drawback. Because the message hits her instantly, she is likely to read it right then (whether she's in a car or doing something else that needs her full attention, or maybe she's in a conversation with someone, etc). She's likely to glance at the message, then return to her main task, then forget to come back to the message later.

So, while we can't turn back the clock on this "technological progress" that has eroded the cognitive abilities of the younger generation, we can keep in mind one of the main sources of the problem. Important thing is don't take it personally if she doesn't respond, because she probably forgot. Try again at a later date and you might be surprised at how many times they say "Oh I'm so sorry I saw your message and forgot to respond".

[QUOTE=Grizzly383;3345600]Just saw a new profile. In the "looking for" she says that she expects a "Substantial" allowance I. E. 10 grad a month. I had a good laugh. I wish I could be their to see the look on their faces when the reality hits. LOL.[/QUOTE]Ignore it. Most have no idea when they select that. Worst case they've been influenced by the SA marketing blog. In which case, you dump and move forward.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3345743]I also confess to 56 (optimistic, but can pass), and it's true many are resistant to my first contact. I list married on my profile as well, and I know that there are quite a few girls (most commonly, younger asians) who don't want to date married men, only some of them stating it in the profile. I try to put in an initial sentence that catches the eye b / c it can be seen in the message list without opening it. It's been frustrating to me when a girl not only doesn't respond to a message, but I can see she hasn't read it. She has decided to do that based on what she can see in her inbox, so really try to get a hook in there. I use some general ones for my 3 message types, but you might also try putting something in specific to her profile.

My first message is a pretty general, nice guy one, with additions customized to her profile. If she reads it and does not reply, I come back in a few days with a couple of approaches. Very young ones get something about you may not have a lot of experience, I'm a great mentor, guys your age suck, etc. The most successful thing I've used that gets women to seriously look at my profile is asking them about being kinky / submissive. I think that has to be an assumption about any woman on SA. My nice guy message goes nowhere. My message about being naughty gets a read, perhaps a request for my private photo (full face). Sometimes it stops there. I have had a few come back w / 'no, I'm not submissive', and I explain the basis of my asking, then continue the conversation. At least I've gotten a rise out of them.

I've got one other I use for the type of college girls whose bathwater you'd drink, basically promising in a romantic way a certain kind of relationship. I am conversing w / a 19 YO incredibly beautiful and hot girl right now who I got in this way. The lesson I've learned by mistakes made is that I have to slow play these. She's getting comfortable w / the bowl and me, and everything needs to be her idea. It could take a month or two to land this fish. It will be worth it if it happens. I have a M&G w / a 22 YO tomorrow, also a college girl, and I played it the same way over a few weeks. In an early message, though, she asked me how initial meetings worked, and I explained very generally what the practices were. Clearly, she was interested in the bowl, and she's gotten comfortable enough w/ me to try it. Sexy, a dancer (not a stripper), tall, slender, flat.[/QUOTE]Your first message should set you apart from the rest. I ran across a profile that said she could curse like a sailor. My first message was - "prove it to me". It showed that I read her profile, and I wasn't going OMG you're so sexy.

Be different. Be unique, and you'll score.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3345082]The issue with some of the opinions posted here is that we tend to forget that our opinions are based only on our own experiences, and that our perspective is limited by how vast (or narrow) the expanse of those experiences happen to be. When opinions get posted as fact (which can happen unintentionally -- I'm guilty of this too) is when the value of these discussions becomes diminished.

.[/QUOTE]So following JZL's contributions through the yrs it seems that he has a high degree of Game, and plays this SB game a lot differently than most of us do. If you have game and can freestyle to meet nontraditional SBs, then good for you. It is more of an IRL situation. But the average guy-myself included, has neither the time, freedom, or skills to keep the larder full. So most of us have to shop at the Sugar store. I've seen a few SBs in my time, and the biggest c / o I hear is the high degree of loser guys trying to score free ass -skipping out after scoring, etc. I know a lot (most?) of the guys who post here care about the girls that we are looking to see, and don't look at them as a tool to be used and discarded.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;3347212]So following JZL's contributions through the yrs it seems that he has a high degree of Game, and plays this SB game a lot differently than most of us do. If you have game and can freestyle to meet nontraditional SBs, then good for you. It is more of an IRL situation. But the average guy-myself included, has neither the time, freedom, or skills to keep the larder full. So most of us have to shop at the Sugar store. I've seen a few SBs in my time, and the biggest c / o I hear is the high degree of loser guys trying to score free ass -skipping out after scoring, etc. I know a lot (most?) of the guys who post here care about the girls that we are looking to see, and don't look at them as a tool to be used and discarded.[/QUOTE]Actually I think running a bit of game works best against "real" SBs, and is far less effective on UTRs, pros and the like. Game doesn't really buy a lot with the pros or gold diggers, because their goals are predetermined before they ever enter the bowl -- a customer is a customer for them, they aren't looking for any aspect of the dating experience, nor do they care about sexual enjoyment as much as they care about money.

Most of the stuff I talk about here is not PUA strategy (or anything approaching it really). Most of what I write about involves simple observations about the female mind -- yes, civy dating experience helps with this, but I'm not sure that counts as running game. Also, if you watch the posts you'll find I'm not alone in my observations. Lots of guys (who, like me sugar date only occasionally) report much the same experiences that I do in this thread.

I think the variation in experience in perspectives is that just like the girls I mentioned, all of our goals are predetermined before we enter the bowl as well. Some guys go in knowing they want to negotiate quick deal for a cheap and kinky fuck for an hour romp in a hotel, and that's the kind of girls they meet. Some guys go in hoping to meet something that can turn into an actual relationship / GF situation, and that's the kind of girls they meet. Some guys (myself included) go into the bowl with certain parameters or rules (like not discussing money ahead of time), so of course the girls I meet are limited to the type of girl that responds well to that method.

It's hard for me to even remember that escort and UTR types even exist on SA, because I filter them out so quickly (usually by a cursory glance of their profile). Then, if they insist on talking money, they are culled from the list of candidates, focusing my search further. There are some other reasons they may not make the final cut (for example if I see something on their FB that turns me off). So at the end of the process I'm left with a number of girls in each city that all meet my criteria. That doesn't mean the other types of girls don't exist, I just don't mentally acknowledge them, and usually forget they are even there.

The only reason any of this matters is that when I see the various sugar threads that have cropped up here on USASG in the last year, it seems that lots of guys treat the lifestyle as an extension of BP. To each his own, I'm not going to tell other people how to operate but I am going to acknowledge the issue that this is the single largest threat to the long-term viability of SA and similar SD websites. If media events continue to associate these sites and their users to prostitution, trafficking, or other illegal activity, major banks will eventually refuse to process payment transaction and that's that -- the scene will vaporize overnight.

I'd rather not see that happen, which is why I mention it here. But, if doomsday does come, it's only an inconvenience and not a complete obstacle. Sugar babies were available on dating websites before the SD sites came along, and even before the Internet they were available in bars. I'll find them one way or another. Honestly sometimes I prefer randomly hunting in strip clubs anyway.

Collectively however, I do believe it is worthwhile to make our best effort to preserve the lifestyle. If nothing is done, we will see more negative media attention in the future. More attention that is not in the best interest of the lifestyle / hobby.

In addition to preservation of the lifestyle, there is the other issue of increasing availability of identification over the Internet. TOR helps, VPNs help, but they are not fool proof, and operational security experts will tell you even the best of the best at hiding their identity make a mistake sooner or later that exposes themselves, and they almost never realize when it happens. To explain that in it's simplest forms, one form of risk takes only a very minor network hiccup combined with tunneling protocol kill-switch timing failure, and suddenly your IP address is all over whatever you're doing. So, those who continue to engage in illegal activity on-line should pretty much prepare for dooms day, the day when they are held accountable for their actions, under their real names, in front of their spouses and employers, and plan domestic and career responses accordingly. The most recent example is PornHub being ordered to expose folks who uploaded copyrighted content. This trend will only grow. The Interweb Jury declared illegal activity happened and the perps must be outed, then made it so.

Married guys making offers for sex over the Internet in the US should prepare for the day they get served an alimony shit sandwich if they continue this bad habit, because the methods used to reveal identity are growing more sophisticated by the day. Wives of SDs are going to love it. Refraining from illegal activity doesn't guarantee they'll never get caught by the wife, but it does make it less likely they would ever be publicly outed in the first place. To me, that reason alone is reason enough to stay on the path of not offering money for sex on line. The single guys without an SO? The retired guys? They are at much lower risk.

The solution to all of this is just to not break the law in the first place. In the bowl, there is as much (if not more) fun to be had without even going there, anyway.

I think it can still be done, even when shopping at the sugar store (to borrow your phrase). If nothing else, just making sure "deals" are never discussed on line, and talking about that only after an in-person meet, would go a very long way. And, if you can set it up so that she can honestly never answer "yes" if LEO asks her if there was ever a deal to exchange sex for money, even better. I believe this should be doable, even with UTR types.

I ran another ad for talent of CL at the beginning of the year and came up with another gem that has been a regular. Mid 30's, Married, mom, FITNESS INSTRUCTOR, yeah. She can squeeze your nuts off without using her hands if you know what I mean. She was definitely a newby, had to really calm her down to get the panties on the floor. After that she did not want anything from me except to pay for the room. She got hung up in traffic coming to meet me Monday and sent me this as tease.

I won't write a book on it, but it is about game. And game is about confidence and listening. Most of these women have never had a man listen to them. I just sent her a sexy dress, without needing to aski her size. I bet that is going to get me at least 2 raw shots on goal next week since she made the comment that her man could never remember her size (she's a 2 BOZO its not hard to figure out).

[QUOTE=Beachesnole02;3348989]
I won't write a book on it, but it is about game.[/QUOTE]Never say never. Once you achieve critical mass of emails and pms asking you to do exactly that, you might start wondering what it would be like to line up publishers and make a few hundred thousand, or even millions, for your efforts like Neil Strauss did; instead of giving it away for free.

As a man w / a SO, I keep my SA profile hidden from searches. The only way SBs know of me is when I contact them. I decided to do an experiment today of opening it up. I'd say I got a dozen contacts from people I'd never seen before, including from long distances (though the profile says 'only local'). Most were crap and instantly blocked. I got favorited by a couple of young ones, one local, one far away, I can't understand why. Some advise you will never date someone who only favorites you. One middle-age fairly hot woman I'm continuing to message with, and then came a nice surprise. I joined about 10 months ago, around the same time as a coed I really liked the looks of. She ignored my original message and then a follow-up 6 mos ago, but I saw she was viewing my profile today, so I shot her a message. A convo ensued and we are supposed to meet.

I really recommend favoriting those you are interested in and messaging with. You can keep track of when they were on, if they are ignoring messages you sent, etc.

Another strategy that seems to work for me is sending them a message while they are on the site. Perhaps it is more compelling to read a message that has just come in, rather than one that has been sitting in her inbox. That is another reason to favorite those you are interested in - you can see who is online and send messages to those.

It can be very hard to tell from a profile where a POT is coming from. I am interested in one who has a fake photo, specifically says she wants much older and expects to 'stay in' w / you. I had two bowl buddies vet the profile, and they both concluded she was UTR. I've messaged w / her and she's texted me real pix. Absolutely stunning 23 YO, HOT body, and of slavic heritage if you know what I mean. What BikeRider says are among the most manipulative of women in the world. Anyway, the messaging was very nice and sweet, and she seems to be getting quite excited to meet me today. I get an inkling and ask her if I am the first man to meet her from SA and she says yes. Of course this could be a put on ('oh, I'm a virgin'). We agree to text to confirm before the meet. I pop on my phone this morning and there's her text that she has to go to the doctor for an emergency. Yeah, right. At least she noticed me before she flaked, so I didn't go to the spot. It is out of my way as I am trying to stay UTR. Anyway, I have to reassess this girl based on new info. I mean, what UTR flakes on a meeting? It's the young ones who are unsure about the bowl who do that. I sincerely think she's an amateur, and if she has anything like reasonable sugar, this could be a gold mine.

I have another regular SB who's Russian, and though I pretty much know she fucks other guys, she's never given me a vibe of threatening me IRL. And unless she's about to win an Oscar, she just loves our sex. I also have the goods on her (home address, real estate license, hubby). FFA away.

After a few days into this, I have a few POTs lined up. It will all boil down to them being legit, flakes, or UTRs this weekend. I can embarrassingly say, my first 48 hrs into this, I received a 24 hr ban (I laugh now, and some are saying you idiot) but I learned quickly not to talk numbers and wording is very important, I don't think I did anything too egregious. I just slipped up in being too upfront to the wrong person.

I was also trying to read the Richmond Bible of SD / SB simultaneously. Big mistake. As my 24 hour detention allowed me to read and thus up my IQ. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the forefathers have laid out a helluva blueprint.

Now, I have a shitty profile picture (no face). This really boils down to what I do for a living, yea. It would be retarded if I did. But this leads to my first big question is how do you guys navigate around this obstacle and what have you all done when time comes to spread your photo (the safest way)? Also curious how guys with SO's take this risk. I personally navigated around this in two ways thus far; (1) I got a Snapchat app and sent a photo timed for 1 second and it disappears (2) I told a future date, when we meet for coffee, I'll wear this shirt, If I'm your type come say hi. If I'm not your type, she can easily avoid this by disappearing as soon as she notices me.

In my short time, I've noticed Profiles are money. We all like visuals and the more you can give a girl, the more likely she's to respond. The headings and words no matter how clever I think can be irrelevant if you keep it simple and elaborate on who you are and what you're about in the opening messages. But good pictures and simple word play are good enough bait to catch a sexy fish.

The past highlights have helped me with coming up with a generic openers I can use for all. If I'm bored I may send my opening message blended with some of the things they say they're looking for. Regardless, I've been approaching this with a strong opening statement and then trying to play very much going with her flow in setting a date.

Now here's what I'm working with:

Girl #1: claims she just got started with this, account says such but she's coming off as super clingy already. American Immigrant, sexy accent, college student. I'm skeptical about her as. I'll be honest guys, I'm no dud and I think she can be a stage 4 clinger. Either way, we are meeting for coffee soon and more to report.

Girl #2: My little ratchet #1. Black girl who when I said coffee, said she doesn't drink but had some nice lunch places in mind. Great little body but she seems like she's happy with trying to eat / drink good off of guys. I think I'm going to drop her already.

Girl #3: Young with 2 kids in college. Was not smart enough to use a burner or app so a facebook search revealed it all. She potentially has some little thug bf. (I'm curious to hear how you all think I should move on this one) They could be over, he could be in jail but FB has them in a relationship. I think he could be using her as bait to jump / rob SDs. I'm 90% certain I'm bagging out of this one. I will meet her for coffee as I'm 6'4 240, hence the name "The Barbarian" but I will not be doing late night appt visits.

Girl #4: This one breaks my heart because she seems so genuine but I googled her number and I am certain she's UTR. Her number came up as an escort but not to many hits on google. We supposedly have a date tomorrow, at her place where she says she'll cook dinner. Asked me to only bring wine and we'll go from there. Really interested on your takes about this one.

What I've noticed immediately is this is a different game / hobby. It's fun and takes time finessing these women and they really do want to be sold a dream even though the name is "SA", it's really funny.

I need help in getting over the picture. I will not be as successful until I do.

I do have several, solid opening lines.

Coffee is my ideal of a perfect first M&G, any other in expenses ideas under $. 3. I'm not cheap but I am playing the quantity game until I've found my niche in this.

However, that's the lowdown. I'm working on a few more ladies, but none as developed as these. Curious to hear thoughts and always open to PM.

Thanks.

I need some advice from my more experienced brothers. I am married, have a SB I have been seeing for about a month, she lives about 30 miles away. Made a mistake the other night sending a pic (cut and paste) , not of me, but it had my email account and real name attached to it. She didn't say anything but I know she saw it and it can't be deleted because we were in Google Hangouts. Not someone who I think would cause problems but then you never know. I know where she lives, her FB page, how many children she has, what they look like, where she works works etc. She had been adamant about not sending any graphic pics, so I have none.

So I can stop now, minimize the damage, actually only been intimate with her once, and hope for the best. The other option I suppose is to amass as many missiles on my side as I can so that we have mutually assured destruction if war were to break out. If any of my brothers saw House of Cards you'll remember when the soon the be Prez started dating a young reporter he required her to allow him to take very graphic pictures of her, so she knew he could retaliate with a vengeance if she caused a problem. (Yes I know what ultimately happened to her but let's not go there). Any suggestions?

[QUOTE=Playa12;3350409]I need some advice from my more experienced brothers. I am married, have a SB I have been seeing for about a month, she lives about 30 miles away. Made a mistake the other night sending a pic (cut and paste) , not of me, but it had my email account and real name attached to it. She didn't say anything but I know she saw it and it can't be deleted because we were in Google Hangouts. Not someone who I think would cause problems but then you never know. I know where she lives, her FB page, how many children she has, what they look like, where she works works etc. She had been adamant about not sending any graphic pics, so I have none.

So I can stop now, minimize the damage, actually only been intimate with her once, and hope for the best. The other option I suppose is to amass as many missiles on my side as I can so that we have mutually assured destruction if war were to break out. If any of my brothers saw House of Cards you'll remember when the soon the be Prez started dating a young reporter he required her to allow him to take very graphic pictures of her, so she knew he could retaliate with a vengeance if she caused a problem. (Yes I know what ultimately happened to her but let's not go there). Any suggestions?[/QUOTE]Even though you both have equal ammo knowing each other's identity, it really doesn't buy you much. If the shit hits the fan and becomes a war, what does all the ammo you have on each other buy you? A battle where nobody wins.

The fact that she's female and you're male already gives her a huge advantage in an "identity reveal" battle. A hot chick can leave her husband and find another quickly if needed, this process is normal for them. Men on the other hand have this massive guilt reflex that activates in these situations. It will stress the hell out of you, while she doesn't miss a night of sleep. Plus, financial complications of ending your marriage are likely severe, while she might come out financially ahead by divorcing her spouse.

Avoiding that drama should be your top priority. But, if I were you I would not just suddenly stop seeing her. I would immediately put her on a phase out plan without mentioning it to her. Make visits and contacts farther apart. Start complaining about money problems and job stress and making excuses to spend less time talking. She will get bored and start looking elsewhere, then you have a clean getaway opportunity. Depending on how long you've been seeing her, I would plan for a slow phaseout over maybe 4-6 weeks. And while this is going on, in the meantime you're searching for new POTS, which takes your mind off the sex you've been having with her, and makes you less likely to stray from the phaseout plan. Then I'd just learn from my mistakes and make sure I never let the next one learn my name.

Just my $. 02.

And I have some experience in that, if you feel someone can potentially be a threat, you do just that; stockpile ammo so when the time comes, you either do a "show of force" by showing her was you have and what can be done, or you bomb her ass to oblivion with all the dirt. That would get messy.

True story, I had a SO once and I met a young lady before my hobby days. We met at a bar and had a thing for about a month. She wanted me for keeps. When the SO found out, rather than be a ride or die and deny, she spilled all the beans almost like an "in your face" moment and expected me to stay with her. LOL.

I dumped a lb of sugar into her gas tank and then posted an ad for her on CL with her pics and number. I was really young then and dumb but It temporarily made me feel better.

[QUOTE=Playa12;3350409]I need some advice from my more experienced brothers. I am married, have a SB I have been seeing for about a month, she lives about 30 miles away. Made a mistake the other night sending a pic (cut and paste) , not of me, but it had my email account and real name attached to it. She didn't say anything but I know she saw it and it can't be deleted because we were in Google Hangouts. Not someone who I think would cause problems but then you never know. I know where she lives, her FB page, how many children she has, what they look like, where she works works etc. She had been adamant about not sending any graphic pics, so I have none.

So I can stop now, minimize the damage, actually only been intimate with her once, and hope for the best. The other option I suppose is to amass as many missiles on my side as I can so that we have mutually assured destruction if war were to break out. If any of my brothers saw House of Cards you'll remember when the soon the be Prez started dating a young reporter he required her to allow him to take very graphic pictures of her, so she knew he could retaliate with a vengeance if she caused a problem. (Yes I know what ultimately happened to her but let's not go there). Any suggestions?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3350435]Even though you both have equal ammo knowing each other's identity, it really doesn't buy you much. If the shit hits the fan and becomes a war, what does all the ammo you have on each other buy you? A battle where nobody wins.

The fact that she's female and you're male already gives her a huge advantage in an "identity reveal" battle. A hot chick can leave her husband and find another quickly if needed, this process is normal for them. Men on the other hand have this massive guilt reflex that activates in these situations. It will stress the hell out of you, while she doesn't miss a night of sleep. Plus, financial complications of ending your marriage are likely severe, while she might come out financially ahead by divorcing her spouse.

Avoiding that drama should be your top priority. But, if I were you I would not just suddenly stop seeing her. I would immediately put her on a phase out plan without mentioning it to her. Make visits and contacts farther apart. Start complaining about money problems and job stress and making excuses to spend less time talking. She will get bored and start looking elsewhere, then you have a clean getaway opportunity. Depending on how long you've been seeing her, I would plan for a slow phaseout over maybe 4-6 weeks. And while this is going on, in the meantime you're searching for new POTS, which takes your mind off the sex you've been having with her, and makes you less likely to stray from the phaseout plan. Then I'd just learn from my mistakes and make sure I never let the next one learn my name.

Just my $. 02.[/QUOTE]What about making an excuse the wife is threatning to leave and he has to spend more time mending things?

[QUOTE=Aswerty9111;3350684]What about making an excuse the wife is threatning to leave and he has to spend more time mending things?[/QUOTE]All things require situational consideration, so tactics usually need customization based on things like the personalities of each involved.

I personally don't like the "wife is onto me" scheme, because it runs the risk of a couple of unpleasant side effects:

(1) If the SB is of the evil variety, she might take to this like a shark takes to blood, and decide it's a good time to start pouring on the tension, making him sweat a bit, to her advantage. I don't know why, but some women have this instinct that drives them to sense weakness, and exploit it. It might be something that is psychologically rooted in penis envy or a feminist view of gender inequity. For this reason, I think fabricating a story that exposes a weakness that is not really even there yet is not a very good idea.

(2) If she's already developed feelings (or an addiction) from the visits, any kind of excuse that drags the wife into it might bring out a sense of competitiveness in the SB. That can lead to all sorts of shit, some of which can't even be predicted. Possibly even a Fatal Attraction type of obsession where she feels compelled to compare herself to the wife.

So I think diverting the culprit toward work related issues, and/or a deteriorating financial position is the safest bet. It gives him a good excuse to cut back spending, and usually has an effect on the girl that is somewhere between apathy and pity, and both of those are good emotions to invoke in her when you're trying to get away. Less possibility for weird side effects. You can also "adjust" the stories around money to make it seem not too bad (not exposing a major weakness), while at the same time explaining why things have to change.

In the old days I would say stories about family health issues and such are good, but if she already knows his name she can likely find out a lot about who his family members are, start confirming things over FB or whatever. So I'd only recommend those when anonymity is still in tact.