Rants, Raves and Opinions AKA "The Octagon"

[QUOTE=TheGenteelMan;2395930]
If you (the provder) are not prompt with this (like within 5 minutes, NOT 20 minutes), then don't be surprised (as most seem to be) when I say I cannot make it.
[/QUOTE]Absolutely share these sentiments. Can't tell you the number of times I have told a provider I will see her in 30 minutes. Text along the way, then text them "I'm here" only to get a response of "I need to pee. Give me a minute" which often times turns into 10. No excuse for this. I rarely go back to someone who has such little appreciation for time.

[QUOTE=3-MinutePassion;2395807]If I am meeting a provider for the first time, who has not been reviewed or minimally so, I normally approach it as though I am interested in a massage only. That way if she does not take off her clothes or if I am getting strange vibes, I can proceed on that basis and not repeat.

Personally, I think it would be wise if all providers listed themselves under Body Rubs rather than Escorts. This gives them two advantages. One, if they really don't want to have sex with a monger they can pass and just give the massage, as agreed upon. Two, they can also size up the situation. I understand that many are afraid they will lose business if they don't make it perfectly clear that they provide full service but I don't believe that would be the case.

On a first time meeting I also always begin with one number, to get info, rates, etc. and then set up the meeting on a second number so nothing can be traced back to the earlier discussion about rates and activities. That way there is no linkage to the earlier, "incriminating" discussion.

A friend of mine believes with LEO it wouldn't matter. If you are there to meet a provider who has listed herself as full service, even if you only discuss massage, they will bust you. I'm not sure about the legality of this but I suppose LEO can do pretty much whatever it wants. After all, it is your word against theirs and even if you do beat the rap in court, the damage has been done on the domestic and / or work scene. So, LEO wins either way.

I just wish the providers would shift their listings on sites like BackPage to Body Rubs. It sure would make it safer for all involved. Not perfect, but better.

Thanks to Toro and Golf Cart for their input.[/QUOTE]Until they get smacked with "Providing a massage without a license. " Yes, it's a real crime in both Ohio and Kentucky. Yes, I'll wait while you google it and try to prove me wrong.

Ohio: Massage therapy is defined loosely and includes the terms "manipulation of soft tissue through the systematic external application of massage techniques" -- and is considered a subset of practicing medicine and requires a license through the state. Basically, it's like being a doctor without a license and is a misdemeanor.

Kentucky: For starters, you couldn't even advertise that you're providing massage therapy unless you're licensed: (No person or business entity is allowed to advertise "massage therapy" unless the massage is being performed by a licensed massage therapist" KRS 309.353 (3)) -- but yup. Same as Ohio, it's classified as practicing medicine without a license and is a class the felony (this can't be right. But, looks that way!

In short, if you're under the bullseye for the law, you're going to get fucked, no matter how you spin it. Unless you're willing to actually spend time with someone and talk to them about what you're looking for, and (here's the kicker) come back a second time. Yes, it's a little more cash and it doesn't give me the instant gratification of blowing my baby gravy on someone's face, but, I'm ultimately much safer while doing so. Cops aren't in it for the "long con," so, they'll try baiting you a few times. And get pissy with you when you don't play their game.

I know it's hard to do, but, don't talk about sex. No expectation-setting, no "I'm going to facefuck you so hard, when you blow your nose next week you'll still taste my cum" text messages, and nothing inappropriate (yes, I know, what's the fun in that!) until you come back the second time around. In short, that's why I love meeting new girls for coffee before I fuck them for the first time.

MM.

I see no reason for any of us to ***** about providers not being prompt in their responses. There will always be those guys that keep letting providers get away with it. I personally give a provider 10 minutes to respond before I start texting the next one. If they don't respond within 10 minutes, I move on to the next one. There will always be providers that could care less about service so I don't let it cramp my style.

I've had the worst, an I mean the WORST working day of my entire career, I just give up, where do I start, so I buy this house because the basement is laid out in a way the my clients can enter the basement door and the restroom is directly to your right, service room directly to the left, it's a back door basement so clients can pull around back an park in privacy right in front of the door.

First the snow, this is a already laid gravel path, however being vacant for months, grass grew into the gravel, then the snow came, slipping around getting back there, then. IT MELTED YESTERDAY.

It started with someone getting stuck on the side, which left him there STUCK for 20 minutes, which meant my NEXT client came running into him, so, my HUSBAND tried to assist in getting my first client OUT of the mud, my current client wanted me to leave my then stuck client and go start his massage, my stuck client told me to go ahead and he'd be fine, so I took my next client inside and began his massage, all the while hearing spinning tires outside my window.

After the massage we went out to find this client has spun his tires SOOOO DEEP, he was embedded into mud and gravel, then it started RAINING. So now my 2nd client is blocked in behind the first client, my SUV was perfectly capable of pulling out the first client however it was apparently a rental car and the stuck client wanted a professional tow truck to pull him out. So the 3 of us waited, and waited and waited.

Tow truck driver arrives, 21 yr old jerk who starts flirting with me in front of my husband and two clients! . Then the unthinkable happened, are you all ready?

The tow truck driver, instead of using his wench, asked the 2nd client who has a brand new 2014 mustang, can he try getting around the first client driving the car himself, personally I seen the twinkle in this kids eyes, he wanted to drive that mustang, I thought my client of 37 yrs old seen the kids look in his eyes too, HE DIDN'T, So he hands over the keys, this kid jumps in the mustang and PEELS OUT throwing mud and rocks all over all of us, my clients and I are covered in mud. My client got pissed I couldn't think of letting him get in his mustang covered in two inches of mud so I ran in my house and grabbed a sheet to cover his seats for him to sit on, he's mad at the tow truck driver and he drove off without paying the tow truck driver, I didn't blame him, now for the rental, this client has been at my home 3 hours now, I had to cancel my next client to prevent another run in, " he loved being cancelled by the way ". And finally the first and original client gets pulled out, it's now dark out. I woke up today, and the aftermath in my yard, it's awful, the beautiful new home was splattered with mud, from the peel out. And to beat it all, neither client was a personal client, both just plain old hot stone massage clients, no humor, no fun, no nothing. So I'm rethinking this pulling around back thing until this gross wet ground dries out, I'm taking a nice hot bath an I'm going to do things that most women would be embarrassed to mention, but you know what! I don't care! I want candles for shadows!! I want bubbles for skin to peek through, and I might get drunk too!! Door locked and ipad music playing an I might even turn down the ipad to MUTE an watch a fucking porno! I just want to die, this was the most embarrassing day of my entire life and I just need to get personal and relieve some serious stress. I'm so sorry to those two clients, I don't blame them if they never come back.

Just shoot me please!

[QUOTE=WorksAlot;2396537]I see no reason for any of us to ***** about providers not being prompt in their responses. There will always be those guys that keep letting providers get away with it. I personally give a provider 10 minutes to respond before I start texting the next one. If they don't respond within 10 minutes, I move on to the next one. There will always be providers that could care less about service so I don't let it cramp my style.[/QUOTE]My days book up usually the day before, I always try and save a spot or two during peek hours for my favorite regulars that might call an need same day service, the issue is, I personally don't touch or even look at my phone during my sessions, it's rude and that time is spent with my current client, I try to keep a minimum of 15 min between clients I need set least that to stock fresh towels and sheets, I bleach my table between clients and freshen up as well, re powder my makeup up, ect.

If I give my client the address, then confirm we are good, unless I call or text and say something is wrong, I can't tell that you texted because I'm in session, after my client leaves while re setting my service room I check my phone to see if anyone has called or texted, my sessions are 60 min, 90 min and 2 hrs, So if I'm in a two hour session, no one will hear from me for two hours. I know it's different for girls who work 30 min sessions but my minimum is 60 min. So the days I work unfortunately if you text at 1:55 pm an I just walked in a client at 1:50, you won't hear back from me until at least 3 pm an if I already have a 4:15 set up, I go into my next session and don't get a chance to answer back any NEW TEXT until I'm free. I know I get the cancelation reputation, an things really do happen, my clients I build relationships with, it's rude to cut them off and kick them out, most times if they run over time talking they offer to cover my next hour if I had a client they made me run late for, I don't try to cancel I promise, but if I let in a client after I ran 20 min behind, then the client after him will need put off 25 min, it's a messed up cycle, so instead of moving every single client up by 20-30 min, I'll just cancel the one I ran late for an keep the rest of the day in tact. I also recently had surgery on the 17th of February where I found out for over a year a had a problem that caused severe fatigue and hormone imbalances, but after that surgery I'm feeling great again and taking clients with minimal issues at all. Timing is always an issue, but even a doctors office allows a 15 min delay, I absolutely hate when I find out clients squeezed me in between two very tight times, massages are suppose to be relaxing, it's a massage first an foremost, it's impossible to enjoy yourself if your clock watching. That's for massage though, I don't know how the other services work. Just what happens with me LuvBug.

[QUOTE=WorksAlot;2396537]I see no reason for any of us to ***** about providers not being prompt in their responses. There will always be those guys that keep letting providers get away with it. I personally give a provider 10 minutes to respond before I start texting the next one. If they don't respond within 10 minutes, I move on to the next one. There will always be providers that could care less about service so I don't let it cramp my style.[/QUOTE]They use drugs or you see syringes or needle marks BACK CHANNEL the brothers and let the word spread DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH THEM. If they have or had pimps or owners who scheduled for them then left the community and called their women ****** and A2 and USASG SHIT and didn't need them anymore don't use their people unless you can be sure those same people ARE NOT STILL HANDLING THEM FROM BEHIND. If they show up high drunk, if their place looks like a rat hole, or smells like sh*t, don't use them and out them Talk to the women on here who are good solid providers and ask them who the trash are they know and ask if they have pimps or runners who have cut down the community and the women on here in the past and are still working their girls privately This community is ONLY as good as the mongers want it to be an the ladies business practices make it. This is more than just about the money it is about doing for each other what we woud want any normal sane person to do in or out of this community. Know your clients and providers. JMO.

[QUOTE=MisforMaster;2396506]Until they get smacked with "Providing a massage without a license. " Yes, it's a real crime in both Ohio and Kentucky. Yes, I'll wait while you google it and try to prove me wrong.

Ohio: Massage therapy is defined loosely and includes the terms "manipulation of soft tissue through the systematic external application of massage techniques" -- and is considered a subset of practicing medicine and requires a license through the state. Basically, it's like being a doctor without a license and is a misdemeanor.

Kentucky: For starters, you couldn't even advertise that you're providing massage therapy unless you're licensed: (No person or business entity is allowed to advertise "massage therapy" unless the massage is being performed by a licensed massage therapist" KRS 309.353 (3)) -- but yup. Same as Ohio, it's classified as practicing medicine without a license and is a class the felony (this can't be right. But, looks that way!

In short, if you're under the bullseye for the law, you're going to get fucked, no matter how you spin it. Unless you're willing to actually spend time with someone and talk to them about what you're looking for, and (here's the kicker) come back a second time. Yes, it's a little more cash and it doesn't give me the instant gratification of blowing my baby gravy on someone's face, but, I'm ultimately much safer while doing so. Cops aren't in it for the "long con," so, they'll try baiting you a few times. And get pissy with you when you don't play their game.

I know it's hard to do, but, don't talk about sex. No expectation-setting, no "I'm going to facefuck you so hard, when you blow your nose next week you'll still taste my cum" text messages, and nothing inappropriate (yes, I know, what's the fun in that!) until you come back the second time around. In short, that's why I love meeting new girls for coffee before I fuck them for the first time.

MM.[/QUOTE]So, just to be clear, during your Kaffeeklatsch with a prospect, you discuss the quid pro quo and get all the detail you desire about services, but since no currency is exchanged for service, there is no infraction? Just trying to understand the logic and the advantage of the meet and greet. Also, have your ever discovered that you applied this approach to LEO or a provider who is assisting him and found it effective such that you were able to walk away unscathed?

Would be of interest to know also what the damage typically is for these encounters, excluding the coffee and Danish!

Totally agree on the massage front. It's a bad idea, for the provider. A soliciting charge is actually pretty hard to prove. Practicing massage without a license is easy (they really just need the ad, and your lack of license). I'm surprised actually that LEO doesn't make more of these busts, except that actually I think they'd prefer to get their cocks sucked before they make busts these days. If they were serious, they could pretty well bust every provider advertising body rubs in a day, and in the process probably tack on a wide variety of drug, instrument and paraphernalia charges.

Now, if you actually go to the trouble of getting a massage license, it's another story. Then again, if you've done that, you may not need to be an SP.

As I've said before, the "cop check" also provides no protection. The cops have shown they're willing, probably eager, to go all the way. I've also had providers ask me to send cock pics, as if a cop wouldn't do this. Why not? Assuming he's hinky about taking a photo of his own willie, I'm sure there are plenty of freely available photos out there he could send. Not that it's my practice to try Google Image Search on this, but my guess is you would have plenty to choose from.

[QUOTE=DNut;2396394]You are still reeling from the Kool-aid of the non-mongering world when it comes to punani. This is Burger King, and you can have it your way. This is a business and if Jiffy Lube isn't open when I need it open, I will get my lube job somewhere else and never have to go back to Jiffy Lube again. Why? Because he who has the cash, makes the rules.

The real world it's the person with the vagina that makes the rules. In mongering, Benjamin Franklin and his friend you. Grant does the scheduling for me. If I want it in a 15 minute window, I will. If I don't, then they'll have to hustle and bustle to get rent money. From a sure thing, they just lost on the cash. I will still have my $$ and I will treat myself to another provider, or a nice steak, or some new vinyl for the turntable I bought from the last time I got stood up.

He who has the cash does not have to tolerate shitty service.[/QUOTE]I think you might be correct sir. I will take that under advisement going forward.

[QUOTE=Tuffy12;2396596]So, just to be clear, during your Kaffeeklatsch with a prospect, you discuss the quid pro quo and get all the detail you desire about services, but since no currency is exchanged for service, there is no infraction? Just trying to understand the logic and the advantage of the meet and greet. Also, have your ever discovered that you applied this approach to LEO or a provider who is assisting him and found it effective such that you were able to walk away unscathed?

Would be of interest to know also what the damage typically is for these encounters, excluding the coffee and Danish![/QUOTE]You could end up with an attempted solicitation charge if they were so inclined, same as undercover meeting with a guy trying to hire a contract killer, or they could set up the meet after coffee and get you on everything. Can the cops lie in the meeting and discuss? Yes, would not necessarily be entrapment. (you were predisposed to do the crime).

In Indiana if a masseuse gives a massage / not body rub she / he can lose their license permanently Considering the number of hours required to get that license and the serious cost that is a heavy price. Indiana police will also now go to your boss and your house with your family present and outt you. Also in Indiana a client must be draped. NO PRIVATE PARTS OF EITHER PERSON MAY BE Touched, stimulated, or worked on. That is also a crime Those in the Ohio Ky area might see if that is also the case in their area. Might as well just go after the main course and forget about what ya call it. The big thing for me is getting rid of the drug addicts, the agencies that provide it if any do, and the ladies who use drugs especially the ones who use syringes or needles / and bags to inject it. Indiana has I think 47 cases of alleged HIV basically thanks to ladies who use needles to inject their drugs according to the health bureau down there. Check out your local rules regarding massage therapy requirements and body rubs. Even body rubs that stimulate touch or allow mutual rubbing sucking or other sexual activities of private areas is illegal no matter what they or you call it LOL.

[QUOTE=Countryboy72;2396828]You could end up with an attempted solicitation charge if they were so inclined, same as undercover meeting with a guy trying to hire a contract killer, or they could set up the meet after coffee and get you on everything. Can the cops lie in the meeting and discuss? Yes, would not necessarily be entrapment. (you were predisposed to do the crime).[/QUOTE]Exactly. Plus it should be understood that it won't be the cops you have to convince, it will be a judge if they press charges. Cops don't look for reasons not to arrest you. They'll do it and let District Atty and Judge sort it all out. Judges and juries don't generally admire clever arguments and let you off the hook.

If you are unfortunate enough to get pinched just stay silent and call your lawyer.

[QUOTE=Countryboy72;2396828]You could end up with an attempted solicitation charge if they were so inclined, same as undercover meeting with a guy trying to hire a contract killer, or they could set up the meet after coffee and get you on everything. Can the cops lie in the meeting and discuss? Yes, would not necessarily be entrapment. (you were predisposed to do the crime).[/QUOTE]When I go out for coffee or lunch I don't talk about anything. I am just getting a nice coffee or lunch with a friend. That is not illegal. I just want to get to know someone it is a blind date and if we go back and do something that is between two adults. That is why I will not talk about anything over the phone or in person. My prices and things are posted I should not have to talk about anything in person. Also I do not like payment up front and would prefer a card sealed or something like that just saying thank you.

Velvet Rayne.

[QUOTE=MisforMaster;2396506]In short, if you're under the bullseye for the law, you're going to get fucked, no matter how you spin it. [/QUOTE]Yes, but if I have to defend my actions my audience is my wife and family, not LEO or a judge.

Here are some comments by attorneys regarding body rubs vs. massages (in IL). [URL]http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/is-there-a-difference-between-massage-and-body-rub-725511.html[/URL].

If you find what you need, as many of us do for long stretches of time, there is no need to look for new providers. The dicey moments are when you resurface and want to make new friends. Katie, a gal I met not long ago, came out and met me on the street when I drove up. I asked her to show me her breast. She did and that satisfied my concerns. We moved forward.

As Kenwood Jack has said, he uses his spidey meter. Whatever it takes.

You can always play it safe and only meet well reviewed providers. Some are willing to take one for the team. I have done it a couple of times but when I do I feel like Billy Hayes trying to sneak hashish out of Turkey (Midnight Express).

I certainly don't have all the answers and if anyone says they do, start walking the other way. If you are a newbie definitely stick with the well reviewed providers, gradually expanding your horizons.

And don't hesitate to review the Rules of Mongering on the site. Very helpful.

[QUOTE=FirstHalf;2396838]Exactly. Plus it should be understood that it won't be the cops you have to convince, it will be a judge if they press charges. Cops don't look for reasons not to arrest you. They'll do it and let District Atty and Judge sort it all out. Judges and juries don't generally admire clever arguments and let you off the hook.

If you are unfortunate enough to get pinched just stay silent and call your lawyer.[/QUOTE]I've never broken any law taking a girl out to lunch or knocking on a motel door. Yet, by what all these internet lawyers state, I should be in front of a judge pleading for forgiveness. Self paranoia can be a dangerous emotion.

BTW, tomorrow is friday the 13th, everyone be careful.