"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=CarltonW;3219822]Had been flirting with the cashier at the new costco. Young, thin, pretty -- no boobs, but I can overlook that.

One days she she is sporting a diamond fleck engagement ring. I ask "who is the lucky guy?" She points to the dumpy African American girl working the next register and says "Her, we met here at work".

At least I know the cute little redhead asst manager of the bank across the parking lot has a boyfriend, but at Christmas I asked if she was on the Naughty or Nice list and she said "always on the Nice list, without even blushing. " Should have asked if she wanted to change that![/QUOTE]More like post screening since I was already flirting with her before I saw her profile.

That's the interesting thing about the bowl. My experience in the bowl has vastly increased my interest and abilities in interacting with women of all ages. The hard part is always finding how to open a conversation in a non-creepy way. Just engage in some light banter, and you can usually figure out if she has some interest.

This particular girl was wearing an unusual number of buttons, and that's how I opened. We chatted a bit and she started playing with her hair a bit and giving a smile / look that I knew she was interested. A grumpy old lady behind me in line cleared her throat and I had leave that first day. Fast forward and I see her profile here and in it she says "I only date older men as guys my age don't do anything for me. " Now, I know my instincts were right. I have to be careful though as this is very close to home turf.

[QUOTE=Svenson;3220045]My situation is that I can realistically only see an SB two times a month on a steady basis. I am looking for SB's in the 6,7,and 8 range. Do I need to look at offering $$$ or $$ per meet to be in an acceptable total compensation range or should I stick with the "standard" $$ or $$. 5 per visit regardless of visit frequency?

Thanks to all for your advice![/QUOTE]First, there are no hard fast rules. Just general ranges. Your results will vary based on your "game" and ability to negotiate. Also it depends on your location and competition.

If you are chasing 6-8's I sure would not pay top dollar. Lots of GPS out there, so be patient and "educate" where needed.

Per visit maybe the way you wish to pay, but as OP pointed out recently, it makes sense to put a larger number out there as a monthly figure: more alluring, suggests on-going and helps her feel less like an escort.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3218924]

Messaging today w / a 21 YO girl Ashley0895. She complains she can't find any guys she connects w / on SA, but thinks I'm nice. We're talking about meeting, and she wants to know what's possible. I direct her to the lifestyle on my profile (hers is Negotiable). The reply? Not good enough. She claims two friends get 10-15 k / mo, and one GF got a deposit put on a house (whatever that means. To buy? To rent? Vastly different). Finally she comes out with: "I know what I'm looking for is out there. " My reply was of course, I don't believe you, and if that guy is out there, go for it, girl. But, her complaint she couldn't find a 'connection' was actually that she couldn't find a guy who would pay insane amounts.[/QUOTE]A common tactic I've seen these girls use when negotiating allowance is saying things like, "My last SD gave me (insert insane allowance amount) per visit". This is just a lie to make you feel like you are not paying them what they think they are worth. From the leading up, both talking online and in person, I can tell some of them never even met a SD before me. I just tell them I can not afford that, and tell them that if they were really getting (insert insance allowance amount), they should have stayed with the supposed daddy without batting an eyelash. Most of the time, they stop me as I am walking away and quickly counter offer saying something like, "Well, I'd be willing to do an arrangement at (fraction of original allowance) because I think you are a nice guy. ".

[QUOTE=FScott;3213234]In fact, I am toying with the idea of changing my SA profile to say that I am based in a city a couple of hours from my actual location so that I can approach local babies as if I were coming in on business, essentially treating the situation like an On The Road fly-in. My thinking here is that I really don't want any more steady SBs, but I do crave, like most of us, variety, and if they know up front that I'll only "be in town on business" occasionally, thus no chance of it becoming a regular arrangement, it might make things simpler.[/QUOTE]Your theory of a revolving location has worked for me for quite a while on SA. I keep the primary location my home base, understandably. I set the secondary location the city that I'll be traveling to next and the tertiary location as the city I plan to travel to after that. I do this about a month or so before traveling to those locations to get a lay of the land and your profile is actually featured in those cities as a result of the location information. Atlanta, GA and Houston, TX served as SA hotbeds for me using the approach.

Happy Hunting,

Milfman.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;3220222]More like post screening since I was already flirting with her before I saw her profile. That's the interesting thing about the bowl. My experience in the bowl has vastly increased my interest and abilities in interacting with women of all ages. The hard part is always finding how to open a conversation in a non-creepy way. Just engage in some light banter, and you can usually figure out if she has some interest. This particular girl was wearing an unusual number of buttons, and that's how I opened. We chatted a bit and she started playing with her hair a bit and giving a smile / look that I knew she was interested. A grumpy old lady behind me in line cleared her throat and I had leave that first day. Fast forward and I see her profile here and in it she says "I only date older men as guys my age don't do anything for me. " Now, I know my instincts were right. I have to be careful though as this is very close to home turf.[/QUOTE]Not only close to home, but also (I assume since you mentioned flirting with her for a few weeks), that it's a store you visit regularly. We all have our own risk tolerances, but when I think about my past, every time I decided to roll the dice on something like this, it usually came back to haunt me. Not always with a direct "caught" incident, but close calls that made me uncomfortable.

For example, imagine being in the car with the SO as you drive by that grocery store.

Her: Oh, there's Whole Foods, can we stop for a second I need to buy a couple of things.

You: Let's go to _ _ _ (insert some other store a few miles away) instead, I don't like this store because _ _ _ (some last minute excuse).

That's the part I don't want to go through, putting myself in a position to always be tasked with excuses. That's why I won't play close to home, and even when I was completely single and didn't have to worry about answering to anyone, I didn't like to meet girls at businesses I frequented. A time may come when I want to avoid them and who knows how many months or years they will be working there.

[QUOTE=MilfMan865;3221335]Your theory of a revolving location has worked for me for quite a while on SA. I keep the primary location my home base, understandably. I set the secondary location the city that I'll be traveling to next and the tertiary location as the city I plan to travel to after that. I do this about a month or so before traveling to those locations to get a lay of the land and your profile is actually featured in those cities as a result of the location information. Atlanta, GA and Houston, TX served as SA hotbeds for me using the approach.

Happy Hunting,

Milfman.[/QUOTE]Hey MM,

What I'm trying to finesse is slightly different from On The Road Sugar, (which is something I also love to do, and in fact have babies lined up for two weeks from now when I will be visiting the Big Easy.)

I really do live in Chicago, but I've changed what my profile says is home to Milwaukee, 90 minutes away, and am sending messages to SBs as if I were coming in to Chicago on business on a regular basis and looking to fill the idle hour or two with discrete fun from time to time. My thought is that if they are interested, the idea will be in their heads from the start that I will not be a regular, weekly thing, so not to depend on my sugar gift. This will, I hope, allow me to bang them when I want and not when I don't without the entanglement of a regular, on-going "relationship. " I already have two babies that I have been seeing for years, and don't want to lose either one of them, but little Scottie does crave novelty.

I just put this idea into practice at the end of last week, but so far have a dozen or so POTS that I need to set up m&gs with to see who makes the cut! I am definitely looking forward to this scheme working out!

Of course I'll keep the brotherhood informed.

Tally ho!

Scott.

Anyone want to trade notes on caucasian / hispanic gals in RVA?

Anyone have any Vegas strategies that have worked from the site? Not like finding someone, easy in that town, but the less experienced types. Or is it a waste of time and just go with the pro / utrs. TIA.

Boy do I need advice here. Right after starting in the bowl, I MnG w / a MILF. I thought she was nice and I expressed interest, but she never followed up. Recently, I contact a 25 YO POT on SA and am messaging w / her now. Very alt. She gives me a cell # and I immediately find her on FB, see many photos. It also says she got married in 2016. Even wilder, I recognize in her photos the MILF I met 5 months ago. Her mom!! And I verify from the real name that's on there. So, she's cheating on her new hubby, and someone else in her family already knows me. Mom told me at the MnG that she is open w / her daughters on everything she does, so she may actually know of me.

I guess I'd like to do this young one. She has a bangin' bod and looks like Lady Gaga. There are obviously dangers I'm not thinking about. The big head needs to take control. Help me, brothers.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3222690]Boy do I need advice here. Right after starting in the bowl, I MnG w / a MILF. I thought she was nice and I expressed interest, but she never followed up. Recently, I contact a 25 YO POT on SA and am messaging w / her now. Very alt. She gives me a cell # and I immediately find her on FB, see many photos. It also says she got married in 2016. Even wilder, I recognize in her photos the MILF I met 5 months ago. Her mom!! And I verify from the real name that's on there. So, she's cheating on her new hubby, and someone else in her family already knows me. Mom told me at the MnG that she is open w / her daughters on everything she does, so she may actually know of me.

I guess I'd like to do this young one. She has a bangin' bod and looks like Lady Gaga. There are obviously dangers I'm not thinking about. The big head needs to take control. Help me, brothers.[/QUOTE]Hey Farfar,

I don't know, as long as you kept your true identity secret, I can't really see a down side, unless you misled the mom somehow and she's waiting for a chance at revenge. But even then, what can she do short of forbidding her daughter to see you, which might just drive the daughter towards you faster!

As for unseen dangers, again I can't imagine any likely ones, but that said, don't we all thrive on the frisson of dangers in this pursuit? Adrenaline can be an aphrodisiac for some! All part of the secret agent lifestyle LOL.

Full speed ahead, I say, but other brothers may differ.

Scott.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3222690]Boy do I need advice here. Right after starting in the bowl, I MnG w / a MILF. I thought she was nice and I expressed interest, but she never followed up. Recently, I contact a 25 YO POT on SA and am messaging w / her now. Very alt. She gives me a cell # and I immediately find her on FB, see many photos. It also says she got married in 2016. Even wilder, I recognize in her photos the MILF I met 5 months ago. Her mom!! And I verify from the real name that's on there. So, she's cheating on her new hubby, and someone else in her family already knows me. Mom told me at the MnG that she is open w / her daughters on everything she does, so she may actually know of me.

I guess I'd like to do this young one. She has a bangin' bod and looks like Lady Gaga. There are obviously dangers I'm not thinking about. The big head needs to take control. Help me, brothers.[/QUOTE]Separately, of course.

I know of two Mother Daughter sets on SA one in VA on in NC.

[QUOTE=FScott;3222698]Hey Farfar,

I don't know, as long as you kept your true identity secret, I can't really see a down side, unless you misled the mom somehow and she's waiting for a chance at revenge. But even then, what can she do short of forbidding her daughter to see you, which might just drive the daughter towards you faster!

As for unseen dangers, again I can't imagine any likely ones, but that said, don't we all thrive on the frisson of dangers in this pursuit? Adrenaline can be an aphrodisiac for some! All part of the secret agent lifestyle LOL.

Full speed ahead, I say, but other brothers may differ.

Scott.[/QUOTE]OK, presuming I take your advice, I have to keep mum on all the intel I have on her and her family, right? Keep it in my hip pocket in case things go south w / her of course. Anything else?

I was dating a sexy mif for 3-4 months a few years ago. Over the weekend I get a message on SA from a little 18 year old hotty that looks vaguely familiar. I finally placed her face late last night. It was the mifs 15 year old daughter. 3 years later. Haha.

She is dtf and totally intrigued with hooking up with guy her mom fucked. Good times to cum!

[QUOTE=FScott;3222698]Hey Farfar,

I don't know, as long as you kept your true identity secret, I can't really see a down side, unless you misled the mom somehow and she's waiting for a chance at revenge. But even then, what can she do short of forbidding her daughter to see you, which might just drive the daughter towards you faster!

As for unseen dangers, again I can't imagine any likely ones, but that said, don't we all thrive on the frisson of dangers in this pursuit? Adrenaline can be an aphrodisiac for some! All part of the secret agent lifestyle LOL.

Full speed ahead, I say, but other brothers may differ.

Scott.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3222721]OK, presuming I take your advice, I have to keep mum on all the intel I have on her and her family, right? Keep it in my hip pocket in case things go south w / her of course. Anything else?[/QUOTE]I wouldn't bring it up unless she does since you don't know how she'll react. If she does bring it up, then just go with it.

Without going into the long story. A chick I have seen several times who was new to SA and we had just discussed a monthly allowance. Very intelligent. But just started a premium account. I assume girls pay for this? And what is your guys idea of girls with premium accounts. From my research she really does not have the slutty pics etc and carries herself very well but maybe decided to take a turn? Just looking for some experienced opinions!

[QUOTE=LikeMike1963;3223260]Without going into the long story. A chick I have seen several times who was new to SA and we had just discussed a monthly allowance. Very intelligent. But just started a premium account. I assume girls pay for this? And what is your guys idea of girls with premium accounts. From my research she really does not have the slutty pics etc and carries herself very well but maybe decided to take a turn? Just looking for some experienced opinions![/QUOTE]Some pay and some get upgraded if they use a college email address. I asked one girl if she paid for premium and she was upgraded for the college email.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;3223149]I wouldn't bring it up unless she does since you don't know how she'll react. If she does bring it up, then just go with it.[/QUOTE]She's kinda nervous messaging, wants to voice verify, says there's lots of fakes / scammers on the site. Maybe I should just tell her to get her mom to vouch for me. She met me a while back. NOT.

OK, you guys reassure me. I kept my secret identity from Mom no prob, it could turn out they realize at some point, but IDK. Given she's cheating on the new hubby, she might not tell Mom about this little fling. She says she'll drive anywhere to meet me.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3191432]My advice is to explore the comments in a conversation with her. So many dudes play these silly mind games and often in doing so out game them self! Who cares if she thinks she is getting in your head? It looks like she already has! So what if you have porn video of her, you really wanna play the "get even game" and start a war with her? (you'll loose in the end.) This is real life, not a game of Survivor or Big Brother! Be real, be honest, be open.

So the bottom line: What you want to do? If what you want is to keep seeing her then you need to nip this in the bud and re-establish your dominate position! Tell her you don't find that kind of joke funny and she appears to be dangerous or wacko in doing so and if she wants to keep seeing you, it needs to stop. Bottom line is that you have to be firm and have the ballZ to back it up.

Does no good to talk tough and not boot her out if she transgresses. I am sure she can read you fairly well if you have spent that much time with her. So if you are like a buddy I know (sucker tattooed on his forehead) then it is time to make a break and move on. If not, lay down the law in a firm but nice way. THEN if she plays that game again, dump her. She might flop around for a while and eventually show some contrition and you could go back to her later, if you wish. But at least she knows at that point you were serious and to NOT cross you.

All of that said, I hope to high h#ll that you have taken all of the appropriate precautions to put protective layers between you and the girl? Do you communicate with her using GV on a burner phone? Have you kept secret from her your real name and your real place of work? Does she know your license plate number? Is she your Facebook friend on a monger only FB account? If she knows who you are then the above paragraph is moot. As Graham111 says, get the heck out! (Oh, and "fix" those glaring errors in privacy protections for the next time!) If not and you have several protective layers between you and her, then you can explore the above conversation. I'd she is banking on your Sugar contribution to help pay for her new apartment, your leverage is great.

Just don't be the typical "guy" and fail to talk to her and try to fix problems. Yeah, I know it is pretty "relationship like". If you have a position of safety, it is worthwhile to try to nip this in the bud. Just see if you can talk to her about it and see what she says.

Good luck![/QUOTE]Once again my brothers came through with quick and informative responses. When I wrote this post mid December I had been seeing her weekly for 2 months, all hotel dates including one overnight and also one threesome. For the past three weeks I have been able to postpone / reschedule our dates without her realizing I was putting her on hold for a few weeks. I did stop in at the sports bar where she works for lunch and beers 2 weeks ago. The past 5 days she thinks I am at my step mother's in MD (I'm not) but we will be in the FC this Wednesday. I fully intend to talk to her about where she wants the arrangement to go and why she feels the need to try to get "cute" about my SO. My plan was actually to talk it over at lunch prior to the FC but she wants to get take out at an Asian restaurant so I will need to have a heart to heart in the hotel room before she starts ripping my clothes off. As you may recall the primary reason I want to try to keep her around is bc she is getting her own apt late February which will eliminate my hotel expense and give me late morning / mid day dates.

There are 2 significant aspects I need to add. The three weeks away from the FC has heated up her texts, including a recent one which simply was the 3 most scary words an SB can say. You guessed it. "I love you".

The second aspect is I have decided to renew one of my SA accounts, but not the one she is connected to. She has gone from getting on SA once a week to daily the past 3 or 4 days. She has also updated her public pics. I have favorited her with my second SA account to see if she would view me (she did). I then sent her a cute message with a private pic request to see if she would share her nude private pics with me. She replied with a message but did not share the private pics. Not sure if I will keep playing the game to see if she will share the private pics, probably depends on how it goes this Wednesday.

Cephlapod yes I cover my tracks with GV, although my actual cell number goes to my monger FB page. She does have access to my license tag but my courthouse cop pals tell me it is not easy for a private citizen to run a tag (anyone know anything different about that?

I will tell my brothers these points:

1. Most if not all SA girls lie.

2. Most are addicted to SA and always want a better, richer guy.

3. Most are seeing normal guys and multiple sugar daddies.

4. If they say they love you, it's just to keep you around.

5. If your "spidey senses" see her act strange, most of the time they are right.

6. Many sbs have mental problems and take some form of meds (legal and illegal).

7. Will try to push you and control you as much as they can.

8. Will go crazy if you end your situation with them.

Things to remember:

1. Never love them.

2. Never give important info out.

3. Always have a backup if you feel necessary.

4. Always be willing to walk away.

5. Be prepared to disappear.

[QUOTE=StormyTuesday;3223633]Once again my brothers came through with quick and informative responses. When I wrote this post mid December I had been seeing her weekly for 2 months, all hotel dates including one overnight and also one threesome. For the past three weeks I have been able to postpone / reschedule our dates without her realizing I was putting her on hold for a few weeks. I did stop in at the sports bar where she works for lunch and beers 2 weeks ago. The past 5 days she thinks I am at my step mother's in MD (I'm not) but we will be in the FC this Wednesday. I fully intend to talk to her about where she wants the arrangement to go and why she feels the need to try to get "cute" about my SO. My plan was actually to talk it over at lunch prior to the FC but she wants to get take out at an Asian restaurant so I will need to have a heart to heart in the hotel room before she starts ripping my clothes off. As you may recall the primary reason I want to try to keep her around is bc she is getting her own apt late February which will eliminate my hotel expense and give me late morning / mid day dates.

There are 2 significant aspects I need to add. The three weeks away from the FC has heated up her texts, including a recent one which simply was the 3 most scary words an SB can say. You guessed it. "I love you".

The second aspect is I have decided to renew one of my SA accounts, but not the one she is connected to. She has gone from getting on SA once a week to daily the past 3 or 4 days. She has also updated her public pics. I have favorited her with my second SA account to see if she would view me (she did). I then sent her a cute message with a private pic request to see if she would share her nude private pics with me. She replied with a message but did not share the private pics. Not sure if I will keep playing the game to see if she will share the private pics, probably depends on how it goes this Wednesday.

Cephlapod yes I cover my tracks with GV, although my actual cell number goes to my monger FB page. She does have access to my license tag but my courthouse cop pals tell me it is not easy for a private citizen to run a tag (anyone know anything different about that?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=DrMcNaughty;3222829]I was dating a sexy mif for 3-4 months a few years ago. Over the weekend I get a message on SA from a little 18 year old hotty that looks vaguely familiar. I finally placed her face late last night. It was the mifs 15 year old daughter. 3 years later. Hah![/QUOTE]Over the holidays, a guy that was in the group I hung with in high school looked me up on Facebook. He was traveling to town to see his daughter and wanted to get together for drinks. The appointed day comes, and my SO and I walk in the bar and guess what. His daughter was the swimsuit model I posted a pic of about 3 years ago. Good news, she was totally cool about it, she graduated from college and had a good job and acted like we were meeting for the first time. Did cause me to skip a few heartbeats though. Funny thing is that I did not keep up with him because he used to be something of a jerk, and then 3 decades later I was banging his daughter.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3223497]She's kinda nervous messaging, wants to voice verify, says there's lots of fakes / scammers on the site. Maybe I should just tell her to get her mom to vouch for me. She met me a while back. NOT.

OK, you guys reassure me. I kept my secret identity from Mom no prob, it could turn out they realize at some point, but IDK. Given she's cheating on the new hubby, she might not tell Mom about this little fling. She says she'll drive anywhere to meet me.[/QUOTE]Dude! Wow! Might wanna explore/temper some ASSUMPTIONS? Those seem to get me every time I do it!

1) What evidence do you have that she is cheating on her hubby? Is it possible he knows and supports her money making activities? Or is one projecting on the girl? Just askin'.

2) WTF business is it of yours even IF she is cheating on her hubby? Why do you care? As long as he isn't in the equation, who cares? BTW- Are you married, cheating, holding a double standard?

3) While the use of "resources" to collect info about babies is fine, IT IS NEVER APPROPRIATE TO REVEAL THAT RESEARCH! *** Always keep that knowledge in your hip-pocket! I know in the "gotcha culture" that we live it it is always tempting to throw stuff in another's face, especially when you catch them lying. But if one has a "secret identity" then one is lying too. Point the finger and 3 are pointing back at you. Nothing good comes from "spilling the beans" about one's research. It doesn't show your superiority, large intellect or anything, more likely labels you as a stalker or stranger danger to her. Keep your research / info mum at all times!

[color=grey]*** [i]NOTE: The use of "research" to determine if a girl is real, not a druggie, not a felon, not something dangerous is fine. That is appropriate. Problem is that guys just can't seem to stop there! we wanna know everything! Why? What does that info do for you? More often than not, as in this case (and the post above) the extra knowledge gets us twisted up in knots, over thinking things and out smarting ourselves. Since guys tend to wanna be "in charge" we let that tendency run over into hobbying and the additional info we collected. Just resist the temptation to do that. Verify she is sane/safe and then focus on the FC! Jeez![/i][/color]

4) Who cares if she tells Mom about you? Maybe Mom will remember you and give you a good review? Maybe Mom will offer to do a threesome? Only place that hurts you is if Mom thinks yer a d*ck. (which it doesn't sound like is the case)

5) Her being nervous about meeting & wanting to voice verify (VV) isn't a bad thing. I NEVER leave the house without first VV. That saves me from flakes, scams, etc. Shoot, last night had a baby gunna meet. Have seen her many times before, had a meeting location set and a time and she told me she was on the way. I told her to call me when she got XYZ a corner a few blocks away from meeting. I stayed home. 20-min after our set time she texts that she had a flat tire! LOL! Saved me from a bunch of frustration. Also, VV is a great way to ferret out girls that are dull, inappropriate or druggies. So VV is a great idea!

[QUOTE=StormyTuesday;3223633]Once again my brothers came through with quick and informative responses. When I wrote this post mid December I had been seeing her weekly for 2 months, all hotel dates including one overnight and also one threesome. For the past three weeks I have been able to postpone / reschedule our dates without her realizing I was putting her on hold for a few weeks. I did stop in at the sports bar where she works for lunch and beers 2 weeks ago. The past 5 days she thinks I am at my step mother's in MD (I'm not) but we will be in the FC this Wednesday. I fully intend to talk to her about where she wants the arrangement to go and why she feels the need to try to get "cute" about my SO. My plan was actually to talk it over at lunch prior to the FC but she wants to get take out at an Asian restaurant so I will need to have a heart to heart in the hotel room before she starts ripping my clothes off. As you may recall the primary reason I want to try to keep her around is bc she is getting her own apt late February which will eliminate my hotel expense and give me late morning / mid day dates.

There are 2 significant aspects I need to add. The three weeks away from the FC has heated up her texts, including a recent one which simply was the 3 most scary words an SB can say. You guessed it. "I love you".

The second aspect is I have decided to renew one of my SA accounts, but not the one she is connected to. She has gone from getting on SA once a week to daily the past 3 or 4 days. She has also updated her public pics. I have favorited her with my second SA account to see if she would view me (she did). I then sent her a cute message with a private pic request to see if she would share her nude private pics with me. She replied with a message but did not share the private pics. Not sure if I will keep playing the game to see if she will share the private pics, probably depends on how it goes this Wednesday.

Cephlapod yes I cover my tracks with GV, although my actual cell number goes to my monger FB page. She does have access to my license tag but my courthouse cop pals tell me it is not easy for a private citizen to run a tag (anyone know anything different about that?[/QUOTE]OK, glad you are set to have the talk! Might I suggest you do that AFTER your romp? If she gets pizzed and leaves, you lost the room & potential. Also if you don't have agreement, playing anyway could kinda negate the seriousness of your position.

But it is not clear to me that one is willing to walk away from this girl if she doesn't act the way you want. You mentioned again the desire for her because she is getting her own place. Look, I'm just sayin' But IF I can see this kind of "crack" in your resolve, if she has any brains, she see it (and more) and she'll drive a truck through it!

Now as far as all of your SA snooping goes- Once again, Mr. Detective is out-smartiing himself! Sheet dude! You put her on ice for 3-weeks over the holidays when cash needs are the highest and she might expect an "extra" bonus or tip over the holidays? I am sure she senses that you are distancing from her, so what do you expect her to do? Be loyal to you? But what is with all of this game playing? Huh? Is this Survivor or Big Brother? So what would it have told you if she HAD shared her nude photos with your second SA moniker? What would have been actionable from that? Oh and how do you know she can't tell the second account is you? Same age, height, body style, writing style, similar pics, etc?

As OP mentioned the ILY is prolly her manipulation / game to keep you on the hook. But you got to suss that out. She clearly is in your head with it and since it is effecting you so much, you need a convo with the dude in the mirror to figure out what you want to do: stay or run?

Finally I think you are running fools game with GV on your "real" phone. I just lost a buddy who was a great monger when his SO saw an email on his phone. Yeah, he thought it was OK to "separate" things by just using GV on his phone, but that failed. The point is to create a separate totally compartmentalized universe for hobbying with little or zero ties back to real life! Monger phone might be harder to hide, but with GV layered on it, you have the best protection. The other point is that having your actual cell number go to your monger FB account. THAT is insane! What happens when SO, employer or client uses the search techniques you did or somehow links the two (real person, monger identity). Where are you then?

Yeah, civies are generally barred from doing license tag searches. But I would bet it is a snap, and fairly cheap, to get a PI to do that. I always park backed into a wall or something that blocks my tag. Or watch and wave as she wanders off into the night, so there is no chance of seeing the tag. But for the hard core, there is always a license plate flipper or hider. If you are handy with tools it can be under $100.

[URL]http://www.ebay.com/itm/STEALTH-HIDDEN-LICENSE-PLATE-FRAME-HIDE-AWAY-LICENSE-PLATES-BRAND-NEW-/172411670971?hash=item28248951bb:g:DYEAAOSwjDZYbvt7&vxp=mtr[/URL]

There are cheaper options. Got mine for 68!

So just some thoughts fwiw. Stay Safe!

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3224472]...
Yeah, civies are generally barred from doing license tag searches. But I would bet it is a snap, and fairly cheap, to get a PI to do that. I always park backed into a wall or something that blocks my tag. Or watch and wave as she wanders off into the night, so there is no chance of seeing the tag. But for the hard core, there is always a license plate flipper or hider. If you are handy with tools it can be under $100....[/QUOTE]I was at a AAA Car Care Center and parked in front of the lobby. The clerk did not have to ask about my vehicle just entered the plate # and got all the details!

Don't know if car shops have access to all the info or only the vehicle info.

[QUOTE=StormyTuesday;3223633] She does have access to my license tag but my courthouse cop pals tell me it is not easy for a private citizen to run a tag (anyone know anything different about that?)[/QUOTE]Somewhere in this thread I've written a few posts on the tactic of pretexting. Most people don't realize that this is one of the most important tools in the toolbox of private investigators (and any other profession that wants access to something they otherwise should not have access to). Pretext attacks can be incredibly simple, yet at the same time produce incredible results in situations where people thought their information or identity was safe. If I even began to talk about the people I've been able to locate or identify, or other benefits I've obtained to my advantage with pretexting techniques, I doubt anyone would believe me anyway, so I'm going to give an example that directly answers your question. Keep in mind here I am not advocating anyone break the law (which is sometimes necessary to maximize effectiveness in a pretext attack). I'm just giving an example of how your courthouse cop pal is both correct and incorrect at the same time.

Let's say car repair shops have privileged access to a license plate lookup database that is offered only to verified businesses of their type. Let's say a sugarbaby want's very badly to know who her daddy is, in case she wants to make him sweat a little bit to her advantage, maybe upgrade her amount a little bit. Let's say she is both conniving by nature (far fetched I know, women are never like that are they? LOL), but also reasonably high IQ. Even if she doesn't think this up by herself, she might post a request somewhere on a forum that helps her out. Or she might read this forum. Anyway, let's say one way or the other she is hell-bent on getting this done, and decides to call up a repair shop and say:

"Hi there, I want to surprise my husband for his birthday and buy him a new _ _ _ _ _ _ _ " (whatever this car shop specializes in, let's say a brake job) ", because that's what he really wants and needs, but I don't know all the details about his car, I'm not even sure about the year it's just a Mercedes something. If I give you the plate would you be able to look us up?" Then the service manager says sure, and runs the plate, and says "Is he John Smith at 3210 Main Street by any chance?" She says "yep that's us" and then pretends to be interested in the price of the car service estimate, more importantly she just got her SD's name and address.

Now that might fail at a few shops, if the manager is on the ball and read the 200 page employee handbook on how to properly handle identifying information, but the times that I've needed to do something like this, almost without fail I can hit paydirt sometime within the first half dozen tries.

Pretexting is evil, it is social manipulation, but it can pay very well. And unfortunately some SBs are definitely evil and very good social manipulators.

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;3225072]I was at a AAA Car Care Center and parked in front of the lobby. The clerk did not have to ask about my vehicle just entered the plate # and got all the details!

Don't know if car shops have access to all the info or only the vehicle info.[/QUOTE]In some states, such as California, you can do many DMV tasks (primarily involving the car and not the person - titles/registration yes, license renewals no) at a AAA office. Hence, they have to have access to the DMV computer system. It is a way to buy yourself around the long waits at the DMV to have a AAA membership. So, depends on the state.

Anyone who's been reading my posts knows I have a license plate I bought off a wrecker that I put on my car anytime I see a SB. Almost all the time, I think after the fact that there was no indication the girl was even looking at it or was smart enough to have that in mind, and it was a waste of time in a setting where time is short. I still do it, though. The biggest problem I had is forgetting to switch back to my real plate and driving home w/ the ringer. SO could have seen it and the jig is up, but luckily, no - I saw it the next morning early, before the car was out of the garage, and switched.

One a 22 YO coed, seemingly, exchanged pix and messages, but today tells me she just had a doctor's appointment for her monthly 'down there' check up. So what woman has gyno exams that often? An escort, right?

A 18 YO coed, a profile w / lots of interest in adventure. Yes, I dug deep into her background (found her FB b / c of a slip-up with her real, unusual first name), she is certainly an adult. A few fits and starts for MnG, but it happened, finally, by my paying for her Uber. Attractive but not stunning, difficult to judge her body, taller than her SA profile says. Nice conversation. She has a friend who has an arrangement via SA. The friend was offered 1 K / week by some other guy, but then he flaked. So the POT has some calibration on what is real sugar, and agrees that cars and house down payments are fantasy. Hmm.

I turn the topic to sex and she says she's had sex w / a few partners but doesn't come like when she masturbates. I promised the obvious, world-class sex w / an experienced partner, and she blushed. Surprised me when she didn't know what Gardasil is. I thought all girls in her generation were strongly encouraged to get it. I tried to get her to my car to really test if she thought she could be physical w / me (HollywoodGuy's rule that if you get a POT in the car you have to try to kiss them), but it was too much for today. I liked and wanted to encourage her, so I did gift her. I reported on a POT a while back, a 'long-term project', that never had any further contact. Now I view this one as a real longer term project. She wants to go out to eat w / me next.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3224472]OK, glad you are set to have the talk! Might I suggest you do that AFTER your romp? If she gets pizzed and leaves, you lost the room & potential. Also if you don't have agreement, playing anyway could kinda negate the seriousness of your position.

But it is not clear to me that one is willing to walk away from this girl if she doesn't act the way you want. You mentioned again the desire for her because she is getting her own place. Look, I'm just sayin' But IF I can see this kind of "crack" in your resolve, if she has any brains, she see it (and more) and she'll drive a truck through it!

Now as far as all of your SA snooping goes- Once again, Mr. Detective is out-smartiing himself! Sheet dude! You put her on ice for 3-weeks over the holidays when cash needs are the highest and she might expect an "extra" bonus or tip over the holidays? I am sure she senses that you are distancing from her, so what do you expect her to do? Be loyal to you? But what is with all of this game playing? Huh? Is this Survivor or Big Brother? So what would it have told you if she HAD shared her nude photos with your second SA moniker? What would have been actionable from that? Oh and how do you know she can't tell the second account is you? Same age, height, body style, writing style, similar pics, etc?

As OP mentioned the ILY is prolly her manipulation / game to keep you on the hook. But you got to suss that out. She clearly is in your head with it and since it is effecting you so much, you need a convo with the dude in the mirror to figure out what you want to do: stay or run?

Finally I think you are running fools game with GV on your "real" phone. I just lost a buddy who was a great monger when his SO saw an email on his phone. Yeah, he thought it was OK to "separate" things by just using GV on his phone, but that failed. The point is to create a separate totally compartmentalized universe for hobbying with little or zero ties back to real life! Monger phone might be harder to hide, but with GV layered on it, you have the best protection. The other point is that having your actual cell number go to your monger FB account. THAT is insane! What happens when SO, employer or client uses the search techniques you did or somehow links the two (real person, monger identity). Where are you then?

Yeah, civies are generally barred from doing license tag searches. But I would bet it is a snap, and fairly cheap, to get a PI to do that. I always park backed into a wall or something that blocks my tag. Or watch and wave as she wanders off into the night, so there is no chance of seeing the tag. But for the hard core, there is always a license plate flipper or hider. If you are handy with tools it can be under $100.

[URL]http://www.ebay.com/itm/STEALTH-HIDDEN-LICENSE-PLATE-FRAME-HIDE-AWAY-LICENSE-PLATES-BRAND-NEW-/172411670971?hash=item28248951bb:g:DYEAAOSwjDZYbvt7&vxp=mtr[/URL]

There are cheaper options. Got mine for 68!

So just some thoughts fwiw. Stay Safe![/QUOTE]Great advice as usual. I need to clear up the confusion about my phones. I have 3 phones. One is a personal "legit" phone that is my SO, friends, family, work contacts have. The second is my SA phone that is a prepaid burner phone with both the original number and a GV number. The original number is connected to my monger FB page. Typically all SBs only have my GV number, but a few, including the SB we are talking about, have my original number (I have had the GV number for about 5 months). I have a third phone that is a burner w / o a data plan. I prepay about 10 bucks every so often on it. My SO does not know I have the SA phone. It requires a code to get in and none of the notifications reflect my bowl activity. I keep it hidden in a special flip case.

Hello gents. What's the preferred (currently working) discreet method to pay for AM membership? I see that membership buys "credits". Does each message sent eat up credits? If so how many? I'm sure this has been covered but it seems that as soon as the information is posted its out dated.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3225139]Anyone who's been reading my posts knows I have a license plate I bought off a wrecker that I put on my car anytime I see a SB. Almost all the time, I think after the fact that there was no indication the girl was even looking at it or was smart enough to have that in mind, and it was a waste of time in a setting where time is short. I still do it, though. The biggest problem I had is forgetting to switch back to my real plate and driving home w/ the ringer. SO could have seen it and the jig is up, but luckily, no - I saw it the next morning early, before the car was out of the garage, and switched.[/QUOTE]That alt plate is a good move! Kudos!

Brings to mind a couple of things:

1) One can buy tags on eBay! Yep, ebay's "criteria" are that the plate must be expired and over 3 years old. Can't tell you how many of my home state tags I have seen on line and all look pretty normal except for the "expired" sticker in the corner.

2) If one is changing tags, then perhaps a plate flipper might be easier?

[URL]http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-LICENSE-PLATE-FLIPPER-SYSTEM-TURNING-LICENSE-PLATES-FLIP-PLATE-FAST-/322368743697?hash=item4b0eaca911:g:4MwAAOSw-0xYXebe&vxp=mtr[/URL]

[QUOTE=Makethescoop;3226380]Hello gents. What's the preferred (currently working) discreet method to pay for AM membership? I see that membership buys "credits". Does each message sent eat up credits? If so how many? I'm sure this has been covered but it seems that as soon as the information is posted its out dated.[/QUOTE]Why are you interested in AM?

Have you Googled AM?

What does the Wikipedia page say about it?

What is the deal with the hack?

What does the website say about credits?

Tell me you aren't backdoor promoting AM?

[I]Ashley Madison employs guerrilla marketing techniques to advertise its site. One such technique has been the creation of fake criticism websites filled with ads for Ashley Madison and anonymous testimony that the site is legitimate.[/I]

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3226403]That alt plate is a good move! Kudos!

Brings to mind a couple of things:

1) One can buy tags on eBay! Yep, ebay's "criteria" are that the plate must be expired and over 3 years old. Can't tell you how many of my home state tags I have seen on line and all look pretty normal except for the "expired" sticker in the corner.

2) If one is changing tags, then perhaps a plate flipper might be easier?

[URL]http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-LICENSE-PLATE-FLIPPER-SYSTEM-TURNING-LICENSE-PLATES-FLIP-PLATE-FAST-/322368743697?hash=item4b0eaca911:g:4MwAAOSw-0xYXebe&vxp=mtr[/URL][/QUOTE]Good stuff till you get pulled over then a ticket to possibly being towed depending on your state laws. Being in wrong spot at right time can result in simple check of registration which then comes back expired belonging to some other vehicle resulting in being pulled over. Tow trucks usually have a different tag than a passenger vehicle which would jump right out. If you had a tag that belonged to similar make, year and model would still be expired andu being pulled over answering unwanted questions. Everyone likes to slow down and take a good look at the sucker being stopped LOL.

I am wondering if I am handling the 18 an 19 YOs wrong. I do fine at MnG w / the 22-24 YOs, almost always get them in the car for 'private talk' and end up making out. I have met at least three of the teens who weren't that experienced, maybe were a little skittish, and needed some prodding for that initial meetup. I am pretty laid back and they sometimes have complained about guys wanting to get right into negotiations for payforplay, so I'd never do that. Play the patient waiting game. However, I am also trying to find out if they really think they would do me after meeting in person or if they are time-wasters. So, I do bring the topic up, gently. I think this has put them off.

A while back I had one I termed a long-term project who never had any contact after the 1st date. I met yesterday w / one (I posted about her earlier) who initially seemed promising, wanting to go out to eat w / me for a second date, but was silent afterward. I followed up by email and got a chilly 'Yes, I am currently thinking about it. ' I know a lot of people recommend letting the girl suggest meeting w / the young, inexperienced ones. Should I also slow play the MnGs w / them?

There's a popup on USASG for a new site, Secret Benefits. Anyone have experience / info?

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3226532]I am wondering if I am handling the 18 an 19 YOs wrong. I do fine at MnG w / the 22-24 YOs, almost always get them in the car for 'private talk' and end up making out. I have met at least three of the teens who weren't that experienced, maybe were a little skittish, and needed some prodding for that initial meetup. I am pretty laid back and they sometimes have complained about guys wanting to get right into negotiations for payforplay, so I'd never do that. Play the patient waiting game. However, I am also trying to find out if they really think they would do me after meeting in person or if they are time-wasters. So, I do bring the topic up, gently. I think this has put them off.

A while back I had one I termed a long-term project who never had any contact after the 1st date. I met yesterday w / one (I posted about her earlier) who initially seemed promising, wanting to go out to eat w / me for a second date, but was silent afterward. I followed up by email and got a chilly 'Yes, I am currently thinking about it. ' I know a lot of people recommend letting the girl suggest meeting w / the young, inexperienced ones. Should I also slow play the MnGs w / them?[/QUOTE]Hey,

In my humble opinion, most of these young once that I have dealt with whom I knew were not going to be going for the FC will start with saying no intimacy or can you pay for the M&G. I had done that for few of them and got suckered in to slow moving steps with fast moving / losing cash only got to titty play and kissing. Then again I did have really hot once come straight to FC and still see them I got 2 currently I see on regular basis. I also have changed now to little older ones in to early 30's got one new petite right size get to banging like teenagers. So, when it comes to young ones you either get them right for the first time or never, I don't fool with spending any money taking to Dinners and movies and crap, never did work for me. I even tell you one I am working on an oriental in 30's had went out for M&G twice went to her place 2nd time and got only as far as DFK and titty play.

Good luck to you, I would exchange the profiles form SA with you or anyone else who my success and failures are for yours.

S2568.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;3226501]Good stuff till you get pulled over then a ticket to possibly being towed depending on your state laws. Being in wrong spot at right time can result in simple check of registration which then comes back expired belonging to some other vehicle resulting in being pulled over. Tow trucks usually have a different tag than a passenger vehicle which would jump right out. If you had a tag that belonged to similar make, year and model would still be expired andu being pulled over answering unwanted questions. Everyone likes to slow down and take a good look at the sucker being stopped LOL.[/QUOTE]Yeah, you sure don't want to get pulled over with the wrong tag showing!

But in replying to the dude, I assume the plate flipper is much easier to "change" the tag showing, than pull over somewhere and manually do the switch as seems to be the current modus operandi?

If one is meeting the SB at the FC, simply switch to the "dead" plate as soon as you pull on to private property. Then once she sets off, you are behind her leaving and before you hit the public highway, flip to the real plate. But if it is too hard to use this, like too hard to use GV, burner or other techniques.

Hopefully one is dating in a FC that is in a nice 'hood and not one that is over-run by LE and plate scanners!

Many tools that can be used if privacy is an issue!

Good luck!

Thats exactly I have also wondered. I looked for reviews online and I didn't find anything great. I ended up creating an account and found that the site has obviously fewer choices than SA. Also, I was able to identify some posters on SA here and some pros on BP listed as well. I was hoping there would be some limited free trial but sadly no. The introductory offer was 0. 59 cents per credit at $59 for 100 credits that never expire. The site charges 10 credits ($5. 90) per chat conversation. I wonder whether it is for all conversation with that SB or just one message. Don't think I will waste money on this but might change my stance if I hear more positive stories about this site.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3226535]There's a popup on USASG for a new site, Secret Benefits. Anyone have experience / info?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;3226501]Good stuff till you get pulled over then a ticket to possibly being towed depending on your state laws. Being in wrong spot at right time can result in simple check of registration which then comes back expired belonging to some other vehicle resulting in being pulled over. Tow trucks usually have a different tag than a passenger vehicle which would jump right out. If you had a tag that belonged to similar make, year and model would still be expired andu being pulled over answering unwanted questions. Everyone likes to slow down and take a good look at the sucker being stopped LOL.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I covered all that in detail when I first posted. I swap it out like a block away from the MnG. I don't drive all around w / the thing on unless I have screwed up. Someone pointed out that just having a wrong plate on a parked car on private property can't be a crime. In my jurisdiction, there is little enforcement of some of those laws anyway. I see new vehicles w / paper or no plates for months and months. If I had the little paper I got when I bought my car, I'd just put it up on the windshield take my plate off, and I'd be good to go.

I got the plate from a guy who drives a wrecker, not off of his wrecking truck - he presumably had it b/c he towed a totaled car and took it off. Even I'm not that big a moron

[QUOTE=EnzoAmore;3224315]I will tell my brothers these points:

1. Most if not all SA girls lie.

2. Most are addicted to SA and always want a better, richer guy.

3. Most are seeing normal guys and multiple sugar daddies.

4. If they say they love you, it's just to keep you around.

5. If your "spidey senses" see her act strange, most of the time they are right.

6. Many sbs have mental problems and take some form of meds (legal and illegal).

7. Will try to push you and control you as much as they can.

8. Will go crazy if you end your situation with them.

Things to remember:

1. Never love them.

2. Never give important info out.

3. Always have a backup if you feel necessary.

4. Always be willing to walk away.

5. Be prepared to disappear.[/QUOTE]Enzo, to you and Cephlapod and JL and all the other brothers keeping up with my current SB adventure, the asian (mixed) 21 year old who was getting a bit too cute with her extortion like comments, here is the latest. Part One of the update is today we met for lunch and ended up eating there instead of bringing takeout to the FC. I led the topics I wanted to get out in the open and now believe she had no intentions of getting in touch with my SO, even though I really don't think she could if she tried. I have a po box attached to all my personal information (except my car tags) and my SO has a completely different last name. Was fairly convinced we were telling each other in so many words we would be exclusive.

However in full confession I need to add something to the story that illustrates how my stupid moves come back to haunt me. Last week I texted the 19 year old cute blonde bi-sexual girl that I brought in to play with the asian SB and me during her thanksgiving break. The two of them got along real well and exchanged phone numbers (they even texted back and forth before the 3 of us got together). The 3 of us were planning to get together again over the blonde's 6 week Christmas break. My asian sb seemed a bit unmotivated for a repeat (unlike me). I am very partial to cute blondes. Anyhow I texted her and asked if there was a time when my asian sb was unavailable if she wanted to find a gf to have a threesome with me. She did have a gf in mind and thought it sounded like a good idea. I got back with her a few days later but she wanted to up the $ for her and her gf. My rule of thumb has been 200 for an SB if she is my current # 1 (and worth it) but if we do a threesome I give each 150. I tell my # 1 up front about the adjustment. I didn't like where it was going so I have gone cold on her. The reason I bring this up is bc at lunch today my asian sb was quick to tell me several times she had been texting with the blonde about every other day. I knew what she was driving at, girls are obviously more loyal to each other than to a shared guy. I acknowledge I had been in touch with her but let it go at that. She seemed to get past it and we went to the hotel shortly after lunch and had a good romp.

Part 2 leads back to my alternate SA account. When I was driving back home today I thought it would be extremely interesting to see if she responds to my second message and my second request for her private (which are hot and full frontal nude. Really surprised she got them past the SA censors). I also added my third cell number in the message (a burner I hardly use). Part of me said there was no way she would jump back on the site anytime soon, and really figured she wouldn't share the nude pics. Well guess what. Four hours after she left me she was back on the site, replied to my message and gave me a access to her nude pics. Enzo I am printing out your 8 plus 5 Points and will keep them close to my vest. I know I maintain a double standard, frankly I renewed my membership last week and already have two back-ups. But still, it never CEASES to AMAZE me how your first 8 points are right on the money. The real kick will be if she sends me a text to my third phone. If she does then I will cut her back to twice a month and start getting some variety back in my diet.

[QUOTE=StormyTuesday;3227561] Was fairly convinced we were telling each other in so many words we would be exclusive.

Last week I texted the 19 year old cute blonde bi-sexual girl that I brought in to play with the asian SB and me during her thanksgiving break. The two of them got along real well and exchanged phone numbers (they even texted back and forth before the 3 of us got together). The 3 of us were planning to get together again over the blonde's 6 week Christmas break. [u]My asian sb seemed a bit unmotivated for a repeat (unlike me).[/u] I am very partial to cute blondes. [b]Anyhow I texted her and asked if there was a time when my asian sb was unavailable if she wanted to find a gf to have a threesome with me. She did have a gf in mind and thought it sounded like a good idea.[/b] I got back with her a few days later but she wanted to up the $ for her and her gf. My rule of thumb has been 200 for an SB if she is my current # 1 (and worth it) but if we do a threesome I give each 150. I tell my # 1 up front about the adjustment. I didn't like where it was going so I have gone cold on her. The reason I bring this up is bc at lunch today my asian sb was quick to tell me several times she had been texting with the blonde about every other day. I knew what she was driving at, girls are obviously more loyal to each other than to a shared guy. I acknowledge I had been in touch with her but let it go at that. She seemed to get past it and we went to the hotel shortly after lunch and had a good romp.

Part 2 leads back to my alternate SA account. When I was driving back home today I thought it would be extremely interesting to see if she responds to my second message and my second request for her private (which are hot and full frontal nude. Really surprised she got them past the SA censors). I also added my third cell number in the message (a burner I hardly use). Part of me said there was no way she would jump back on the site anytime soon, and really figured she wouldn't share the nude pics. Well guess what. Four hours after she left me she was back on the site, replied to my message and gave me a access to her nude pics. Enzo I am printing out your 8 plus 5 Points and will keep them close to my vest. I know I maintain a double standard, frankly I renewed my membership last week and already have two back-ups. But still, it never CEASES to AMAZE me how your first 8 points are right on the money. The real kick will be if she sends me a text to my third phone. If she does then I will cut her back to twice a month and start getting some variety back in my diet.[/QUOTE]Stormy. Sigh. Give your head a shake!

1) Good that you had a talk with the SB about her ILY comments. Glad that worked out for you! See it wasn't that hard and you retained a girl that is a good romp.

2) To use your terms, it never ceases to amaze me how you just can't avoid the head games and the trouble you are bringing on for yourself with your snooping, backroom dealing and double standards! Do you have a desire that you want her to be only with you? If so then better put a ring on her or support all of her material needs. Otherwise, wake up! SBs aren't going to do that. Don't fall into the "control issues" trap. She ain't yer wife!

3) She told you what she needs 200 per date whether it is with her alone or with another girl. But yet you insist on giving her less in a threesome. She doesn't like that, and probably doesn't like your "take it or leave it attitude," so probably is starting to distance herself and look elsewhere. Sheet, it is OK for you to want other girls in the mix but, she can't be looking for a Plan B, for when you wander off? You sure haven't shown loyalty to her (cutting her off at the holidays) and have insisted on a third in the mix (she can see your love of blondes, did other girl get more attention in the FC?) at a reduced rate. Plus now you are dealing behind her back (or so you think) to get a 3-some with the other girl and her friend? No wonder she is looking elsewhere.

4) But that list of 8 things, is a list that could be said about most mongers! The way you are headed with all of your mind games sure doesn't look like you want a LT deal with a hot Asian chick. Ooops, there is a hot blonde, I like blondes, let's chase that. Sigh. Oops, the Asian SB is cooling to 3-somes, I really like 3-somes, let's chase that! Sigh. Oh and you said the two SBs text, yet you could not resist texting with the blonde recently? Oh and you asked the blonde to get another SB for a three way with you? What about that "loyalty" or [I]fairly convinced we were telling each other in so many words we would be exclusive[/I] you started with? Hmm, Dick Tracy, just understand that everything you said to the blonde went right to the Asian. As you mentioned, Women are more social and stick together than dudes and in this case, you know they were texting anyway & have established a relationship. And you wonder why Asian SB is looking for a Plan B? Whose fault is that?

Look dudes monger monger styles are different:

Some like variety and a changing view. Those dudes should stick with Escorts and not muck up the waters of SB-dom, since on-going is implied part of the SB "contract"/ concept.

Some like the chase and acquiring something new or the thrill of the hunt. Always opening a new Christmas present and never repeating with "old" ones. Again these dudes muddy the SB waters.

Some like a good consistent romp with a known quantity and establishing a comfort zone.

So figure out what you want to do. What is your style. No wrong answers. (Just don't be a heel and profess exclusivity to a girl, then text her friend for a 3-way that doesn't include her!) You want on-going with the Asian SB or want to chase whatever comes along? Look most of these SB situations don't last for very long ( 6-months) unless you find exceptional situations. Ride it till it implodes and then move on. But having double standard is not flattering, and won't help you win the "game. " IMHO.

I dunno, think I should back off on comments as this trajectory is predictable. Good luck! Stay safe!

I dunno, perhaps I am cynical about the whole SB-SD thing? Relationships, even SBs, are a two way street. Seems like most of what is said a potentially negative about SBs, could be turned around to SDs?

1. Most if not all SDs lie. Most are married, attached, dating and hiding their SB from an SO. ALL SDs should be hiding their identity.

2. Most are addicted to p*ssy and always want a better, different, younger p*ssy.

3. Most SDs are seeing dating multiple sugar babies, as they can. If not dating multiple SBs, they are at least "shopping" for or setting up Plan B girl.

4. Men say I love you, in their normal relationships just to manipulate the situation for sex.

5. If your are double dealing her "spidey senses" and social network will discover it. Don't then expect "loyalty" if you aren't being exclusive! But WAIT! If one has an SO, then double dealing is from the get-go.

6. Many SD have control issues, can't avoid drama and see no problem living double standards.

7. Most SDs will try to control SBs as much as they can, regardless of their double standards.

8. Will go crazy if you SB ends a situation on them, since it wasn't their decision.

The last 5 points are good advice.