"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=JoesParty; 1404955]Has anyone here ever converted a pro relationship into a SB relationship? Can it be done? More important, has it been done?

Joe[/QUOTE]Gentlemen,

When I first read Joe's question, I immediately thought that he was missing the whole point of the SD / SB game, which in my mind is to find and bed hot, young (ish) babies who are emphatically non-pros. If once and a while we mistakenly land a fish that's been in the pond for a while, so to speak, well, it's just the hazards of the sport. (Let me emphasize at this point that I do not want to get into a whole existential discussion here on whether the acceptance of sugar before or after sex makes them all pros; that is an argument of semantics, not intent, and in any case can never be won.)

But then I got to thinking that many of us who have been at this a while have found ourselves seeking something more than 20 something pussy. We find, at least as is true in my case, that we are seeking a connection on an intellectual and emotional level as well as just physical, and why couldn't that be achieved with a pro? The biggest issue I see there is that she may not be looking for the same thing from you, Joe. I have to admit I have not had very much (ok, any) experience in the provider arena, so I have really no idea if there are any out there who are even capable of that kind of separation of professional interest from emotional attachment. We are all human beings, so I suppose it is possible, and perhaps I am selling them short.

On the other hand, I can see a big possibility for Joe getting hurt, and ending up poorer and wiser to boot. I am wondering, and I mean this in the most supportive way, if you are just nervous about what you see you have to do to get these babies into bed, since you say you are shy and a little uncomfortable with this, and so are trying to see if you can more easily convert a relationship you already have into something you want. Think back on the very first meeting you had with a provider. That must have taken some courage to make the call, set up the appointment, and follow through, right? And yet, you did it, and it was fine.

The same thing will happen here, trust me. Somewhat like a provider, these babies know that sex is part of the equation, and they have made their peace with that. It is now up to the two of you to determine how many other variables there will be: gifts, meals, trips, sugar etc.

So while Joe's question should still be very much open for input, I'd like to pose an ancillary one: what is the purpose of the SD / SB pursuit? Is it, as Lit has said, to bring as much pleasure while doing no harm, or something else? Or something more?

Pour yourselves a Scotch, my brothers, and let your eloquence flow.

Scott

Joe, anything is doable for money. It all boils down to her $$ issues and whether she has true affection / attraction for you.

Concerns of a working pro are : 1) Money. Is a private deal off the clock worth the potential lost business by being with you? 2) Money can she still maintain her regular clientele and still keep you on the hook? .3) Money. Do you offer enough to spend extended hours with you? .4) Feelings. If she likes being with you and actually has some affection for you then she will be willing to spend more time aside from the hourly rate. 5) Security. A lot of escorts want financial security of course but also want an IRL relationship. If you can offer her enough $$$ to give her what she wants then she might be willing to be exclusive or cut down dramatically on her list of regular Johns. 6) clients are generally untrustworthy and as such Pros are not used to relying on what men say and promise.

Concerns about a PRO : 1) is she destitute and an endless pit of financial and drama related problems? 2) Is she substance addicted? 3) Is she in trouble with the Law? 4) Is she a sex addict, and therefore unable to ever be satisfied by one guy? 5) STD exposure get her tested and see the results 6) Trust She can call an old John at the drop of a hat and bang him while you are at Burger King getting take out for a romantic dinner together 7) emotional vacuity Many are burned out by life and men ans are incapable of true affection.

Bottom line : Do you truly care if she is still seeing Johns? If not then she will work out an extended program with you that will supplement her already busy calendar. Why wouldn't she? If you develop deepening feelings for her, then you will begin to resent the other 50 guys banging your SB. Just open a line of communication telling her what you want and asking her if she could consider doing that. If she is basically desperate and got into hooking to survive she might want any way out of it to be with only one guy. It's ALL about the money brother Joe. A fav escort I saw a few years ago was going to do that exact thing with a guy but was reassuring me that she would continue to see me on the side. So much for monogamy. The money is just too easy.

I don't want to short circuit this conversation, because I think it is very interesting. But both Scott and Hernando raise interesting points to which I would like to respond.

First: the money issue. Frankly, I don't have a good answer here. It is true that she would be giving up (potential) cash to spend time with me, unless we form such an attachment that she doesn't mind foregoing extra income to spend time with me. But that invariably leads to the second problem: emotions. And while I still believe, based on past experience, that I wouldn't have a problem with her continuing to work as a pro, you never really know, right? I put myself through the wringer with this once before, and, at the end of the day, I believe I came out stronger. But different girl = different circumstances, so who knows? Third: perhaps my shyness IS a hindrance here. I agree that the pro is tempting because she is so, well, familiar. Plus, she always takes the lead, which I love. I need to get outside my comfort zone.

I am still contemplating making the pitch to her, but I am in no rush to do so. Potential employee #1, who you'll recall I interviewed just last night, is already texting me and asking to meet again. I realize it is all part of the dance we do, but it reinforces the idea that she definitely is employee material. I also have set a firm date for interviewing potential employee #2, an early 30s (same age as me) MILF with, at least as shown in her pictures, an absolutely AMAZING rack. All this to illustrate simply that I have a number of other avenues through which to seek my goals, so no need to hurry and make a choice.

Thank you again for your input.

Scott, what Scotch do you drink? I've been trying different single malts and blends, but I always go back to Johnny Walker Black for some reason.

Regards,

Joe

[QUOTE=JoesParty;1404955]Has anyone here ever converted a pro relationship into a SB relationship? I see many obstacles, though I also see many benefits. I am a semi-regular of a local pro. We have good chemistry and seem to enjoy each other's company. Why do the legwork to find a true SB when I seem to have a potential candidate right under my nose?[/QUOTE]Bitter insight time: in most cases, a pro can make you feel like you're The One For Her, but that's not what she really feels. Case in point:

I saw a pro for over a year, usually at least once a month, when we weren't together, we'd be exchanging emails, often several times a day. She told me a lot of stuff, and in the end, that's all it was: stuff. The big party came to a screeching halt one weekend when I'd set up a meet with her, a meet I had to cancel because I had a sudden problem financially and couldn't afford to pay her. To her credit, she'd been open about meets, making sure I knew we met only when I had the $$ she wanted. When I emailed her to tell her I couldn't pay her and would have to cancel, well, a match to gunpowder would not be nearly as extreme a response as what I got from her. After a couple of fairly heated exchanges, she basically told me to do to myself what I'd been doing to her, and my reply was not any less pointed.

Bottom line: you might find that "Hooker with a Heart of Gold", but don't bet on it. I know one now, I've seen her a few times, and she seems to be quite nice woman (even lets me kiss her, though no DFK). Do I think she'll make me her One Steady Date as far as P4P goes? No. I like her, but I know that in the end, I'm probably just an ATM with a the*ck attached to it to her.

Only two ways this is likely to ever happen. 1) You find a pro that is ready to leave the business and wants to do part time work, really digs you (feels something for you which can then lead to emotional entanglements) and wants it to be with you, or 2) you are going to give her as much money as she is making now working full time. Never forget: It's all about the money! Repeat over and over again till it sinks in. The emotions are on your side, not her's. She does whatever she has to do to get our money and hopefully have us come back if she deems us cool.

[QUOTE=Castlerae;1405270]I like her, but I know that in the end, I'm probably just an ATM with a the*ck attached to it to her.[/QUOTE]You are better off going the sb route. It takes time and effort but it does pay off

[QUOTE=Mr Strict;1405490]You are better off going the sb route. It takes time and effort but it does pay off[/QUOTE]In my own defense, the long-term thing I wrote about was very early in my mongering career, and I had very little experience to judge against with her. Then again, the more recent one does not go out of her way to make me feel special, or to tell me as such. Ti's strictly business, but when we're together, well, I can see her relax almost as soon as we get the door closed. I think it's the fact that she knows I'm not going to be super demanding, or ask her to do any strange sh*t, and she knows I like to do what I can to give her a 'good time' too. I'm not looking for, or expecting, any deep connection with her, I just enjoy the meets and (I think) so does she.

Not a bad basis for that sort of business, wouldn't you agree?

After checking with Jackson to make sure it was OK to post, I wanted to share this link:

[url]http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showthread.php?153577-SeekingArrangement-com-Any-Positive-Reviews[/url]

I ran across this while researching SA and thought it was interesting to read women's candid comments about their experiences with the site. I was pretty surprised at how mercenary some are. But, of course that site is for strippers and I'd kind of expect that from women in that field.

There are some other interesting threads there too. Ones asking for help on extracting max $ from an SD, stuff like that. I'm sure all of us are interested in avoiding these sorts of women, so getting some insight into how they think could be useful.

Since it is late and little else to do, I spent and hour or more reading through all the posts on the stripper site. There is some funny, funny stuff that comes out of these girls mouths.

So since most of you are out bangin your atf and don't have time to comb thru these like I do, I have summarized some of the more notable comments. Some funny, some sad and some downright hostile, but here they are for your reading pleasure and hopefully a few laughs too.

Post # 3: 'All I kept getting was messages to smell my pussy for five bucks. Waste of time. '

Post # 26: 'I joined. But I don't want to have sex with a SD though. Is that realistic? '

Post # 29: 'I'm not into the having sex for money thing. I guess it's because I don't like sex that much to be with an emotionless stranger. Wish I could find an SD without having to be physical with him. '

Post # 30: 'I rarely even fuck my bf so what makes him think I'll fuck him ESPECIALLY for money! HAH! I'm not that damn desperate. '

Post # 63: 'Having a sugardaddy is most comparable to babysitting the most spoiled, rich, bratty child you've ever come across. Seriously. '

Post # 64: 'I get the slick ugly old guys that try and say ill be "generous" and offer you 300$ for a visit. I'm sorry but $300 is NOT generous. '

Post # 67: 'I said we could do dinner for $300 since you're offering me 7% of what I'm asking for. This one asshole said well that's like me saying I'll stick my cock in 7% of the way. '

Post # 69: 'Posted an ad an hour ago and I've only gotten a collection of dick pics from guys so far'

Post # 70: 'wait til you get a response (cock pic included) from someone you know! ' (Hmmm Scott, sound familiar?)

Post # 72: 'They are a bunch of broke want to-be posers trying to get cooch for a couple hundred a month'

Post # 78: 'FYI: When you register with your university email address you get free premium membership. '

Post # 79: 'Plus, I ordered fried pickles which he kept saying his daughter orders all the time'

Post # 87: 'The majority of the dudes on there do seem like doucharoos'

Post # 89: 'The most reliable one so far was the old ugly fat one of course'

Post # 96: 'Fuck free meals, and half the guys are trying to get you drunk and make you instantly consummate the damn arrangement. '

Post # 111: 'There was word that some old fat guy was running around the site posting pictures of his nephew as his own. I mean seriously sad. '

http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/sho...sitive-Reviews

[QUOTE=Varoom;1405878]Since it is late and little else to do, I spent and hour or more reading through all the posts on the stripper site. There is some funny, funny stuff that comes out of these girls mouths.[/QUOTE]Proving again why I never get involved with strippers and other pros. That mindset has been ground into them by their profession, and I want no part of it. Yeah, I'm a cheap bastard, by the standards of many of them - and they have grossly unrealistic expectations of what their looks and "companionship" are worth. The majority of them hate men and sex and / or are on a power trip about men. They do what they do because it feeds that hatred.

[QUOTE=Cantwinlosin;1405997]Proving again why I never get involved with strippers and other pros. That mindset has been ground into them by their profession, and I want no part of it. Yeah, I'm a cheap bastard, by the standards of many of them - and they have grossly unrealistic expectations of what their looks and "companionship" are worth. The majority of them hate men and sex and / or are on a power trip about men. They do what they do because it feeds that hatred.[/QUOTE]Interesting read, thanks for posting that link. I find it fascinating that they a) make money from the sex biz and be) think we are losers because we want to spend money in the sex biz. I'm sure they don't all hate us, but sure is a lot of anger on that board.

Oddly enough, my current fave provider (not an SB) is a super-nice dancer who is happy to do cheap quickies and / or car bbbjs. Just met her, but will ask her next time if I can share her digits for those into that kind of thing. Which I'm guessing is all of us.

[QUOTE=Varoom;1405878]Post # 89: 'The most reliable one so far was the old ugly fat one of course'[/QUOTE]Oh the best part of Post #89.

"I went out with the guy who had shorted me (the $280 instead of $300) He promptly gave me an envelope with my $500, plus an extra $50 to make up for the $20 from before, so he is legit. We had a very nice dinner, again nothing physical, though I did give him a kiss on the cheek. He did hint that "next time" he would want things to get more "intimate" so I think I will pull the plug on him, but I'm happy with over $800 for a few hours work."

Perhaps the title should be " SBs IN Hell " Thanks guys for that interesting window into the empty minds of the underclass. I suppose some SDs come across looking pretty pitiful as well (of course none on this site!)

Most women who are offering up their bodies to men for money have serious men / sex issues. The psych journals are full of reasons for this but unfortunately girls are prey for men in their world, from parents, step relatives, uncles, family friends, foster dads, etc. The list goes on. Imagine how much attention a young girl entering puberty gets at school and at home. If her caregivers are abusive, drunks, sickos then they can easily be manipulated, used, and thus scarred for life. It's interesting that many girls choose to " punish " men by doing the very thing that got them in trouble in the first place. Ask your hooker friends that you have gotten to know a little bit. Most of them I talked to have been abused.or ignored.by a male figure in their life. So sad! The stripper site is probably the worst of the worst since these girls are paraded in front of men every shift and pawed and leered at for a few bucks here and there.

All we can do to help them (other than not abet this system) is to treat them with respect and try to make them feel appreciated for the woman they are and not just a sex machine. But in the end we too are here for the sex.

Gentlemen,

We must remember that the women on this site, which has been developed by strippers and for strippers to post on, are professionals who make money from men with their wits and bodies. This does not, in my mind, make them representative of all SBs, though we all have commented on our share of strippers and pros who are using the SB forum to broaden their pool of males.

That being said, I was struck at how similar, in fact, their posts are to many of the posts here on USASG. Our specific thread is the exception, not the norm. The one solid piece of intel that I took away from the 5 pages of postings was that to bring a small gift to your first "date", perhaps not the M&G, was a good idea. I will do this myself, and see if it doesn't reduce the time between initial interview and the FD.

My father used to say to us kids,"the only time you stop learning is when you're dead."

Scott

PS - if you want to read a blog by an SB who enjoys her life, here's the link: http://sugarbabystory.com/
I have a story to tell about her, but I don't have time right now. She is currently attending Grad school in a suburb of Chicago. Now remember, no outing anyone. I post this link for informational purposes only, and she must never know about our thread, ever.

[QUOTE=JoesParty; 1405088]I need to get outside my comfort zone.

Regards,

Joe[/QUOTE]Joe,

Another way to phrase this, and perhaps it will help you to do so, is this: "I need to expand my comfort zone." To me, this is far less scary, and let's you proceed at your own pace. But, as has been said, you need to make it happen.

As for Scotch, JW Black worked for me in college, and still works these many years later, though I can't consume nearly as much as I could back then, which is probably a good thing.

Gorgeous weather here in Chi-town. Tight t-shirts and halter tops are everywhere. It's a good time to be a man.

Scott

[QUOTE=F Scott;1406216]Another way to phrase this, and perhaps it will help you to do so, is this: "I need to expand my comfort zone." To me, this is far less scary, and let's you proceed at your own pace. But, as has been said, you need to make it happen.[/QUOTE]Thanks. This is very helpful way to think about it, and I can even use it in my civilian life too.

Thanks to all the pros for their posting and contribution. I am new as some of you know. And want to try it. My first one is just to meet for a coffee. What should I do? Should I take some gift (cash, gift card, flower, or something or not needed for coffee meet)? My first one. So will post it more after that.

I've only been fishing seriously for a week, and the SD gods have already fired a warning shot across my bow. I'm posting the details in hopes that it helps another newbie (or anyone for that matter).

Last Friday, potential employee #2 and I agreed to set an interview for tonight. Early this morning, I receive a text: "Hi, it's X. I have a question but am embarrassed to ask."

It turns out she is seriously behind on her rent and is being evicted today. What are the odds? She needs more than 2k to stop the proceedings.

I tell her, as politely as I can, that I am sorry for her predicament, but that I am not in a position to help. She asks whether it's because I don't know her, or because I don't have the cash. I tell her again that her request would require a huge upfront commitment on my part for someone I've never met. She counters that my taking care of this problem would engender significant goodwill "for a month or so."

I told her that I was sincerely sorry, that I think we got off on the wrong foot, and that we need to cancel our interview tonight.

I certainly have no idea if she is being truthful or not. She played the "divorced mom of three" card, which I know is true. (She uses her real email, so it was easy to find her on FB.) But it also is entirely possible she was trying to play me like a fiddle. Consider: red flag #1. She asked only after a few emails what amount I could give her each month. I told her it would depend on how well we hit it off, and even then, I prefer to provide sugar on a visit by visit basis. Then, today's red flag, which was more like a huge burning pile of red flags: the damsel in distress.

Even if she needs the help, I decided I can't be involved with someone so prone to drama.

Although I've lost a prospect, I consider today a moral victory of the big head over the little. Plus, there literally are other fish in the sea, including some already on my lines.

Stay smart, gentlemen.

Regards,

Joe

[QUOTE=JoesParty; 1406642]I've only been fishing seriously for a week, and the SD gods have already fired a warning shot across my bow. I'm posting the details in hopes that it helps another newbie (or anyone for that matter).

Last Friday, potential employee #2 and I agreed to set an interview for tonight. Early this morning, I receive a text: "Hi, it's X. I have a question but am embarrassed to ask."

It turns out she is seriously behind on her rent and is being evicted today. What are the odds? She needs more than 2k to stop the proceedings.

I certainly have no idea if she is being truthful or not. She played the "divorced mom of three" card, which I know is true. (She uses her real email, so it was easy to find her on FB.) But it also is entirely possible she was trying to play me like a fiddle. Consider: red flag #1. She asked only after a few emails what amount I could give her each month. I told her it would depend on how well we hit it off, and even then, I prefer to provide sugar on a visit by visit basis. Then, today's red flag, which was more like a huge burning pile of red flags: the damsel in distress.

Even if she needs the help, I decided I can't be involved with someone so prone to drama.

Although I've lost a prospect, I consider today a moral victory of the big head over the little. Plus, there literally are other fish in the sea, including some already on my lines.

Joe[/QUOTE]Joe.

You have not lost a prospect, she most likely never was a viable one anyhow. I have encountered the 'I am being evicted / my cell phone is being turned of / my electricity is being cut of many many times" Just smile and walk away, the ones who don't give you this rubbish at the start are the ones concentrating on.

As I say SW SW SW NEXT some will, some won't, so what NEXT

Congratulations Joe, you are ahead of the game many of us have fallen prey to. Usually my damn-sels in distress wait a few visits to hook me emotionally then pull the eviction (fill in the blank here with any disaster) ploy. Unfortunately her story is probably true. This is one of my cardinal rules for Sugar Dating. Do not see Nando type 1 girls, who are impossibly impoverished down on their luck, needy women. This Money call would have been the first of many. Restrict your selection to Nando 3s, who are girls who do not need to rely on your Sugar for any support expenses, but use it for savings or frivolous extras.

My damsel in distress texted again this afternoon and put on a well-executed full court press. Knowing that I am a lawyer (one of only a couple of personal details I divulged) , she asked a number of questions about the eviction process. But it really boiled down to: I am out of time, have no grounds to appeal, and the sheriff could show up any day now. So, either she really is being evicted, or she's really up on her summary eviction procedures. Either way, she definitely is Nando1 material. It took quite some resolve, but I am pleased to say that I once again resisted her entreaties. My unwillingness to assist was made much easier by the fact that we've never met. I quake in fear at what I might have done had I known and cared about her.

I hereby vow to scrupulously follow the Gospel of Hernando and avoid all Nando1s in the future. The problem is that, like this one, it's not always obvious. We must carefully follow the clues.

[QUOTE=JoesParty;1406833]My damsel in distress texted again this afternoon and put on a well-executed full court press.[/QUOTE]This is a good example of why it's handy to use a Google Voice number for this sort of communication. You can add the girl's number as a contact then block that contact, and then you won't see her calls or texts anymore.

[QUOTE=UKnowWho;1406963]This is a good example of why it's handy to use a Google Voice number for this sort of communication. You can add the girl's number as a contact then block that contact, and then you won't see her calls or texts anymore.[/QUOTE]I do use GV and only give out that number. Her second round of texts came before I had a chance to block her. But this is a good reminder to everyone of the benefits of that system. (Or a separate hobby phone, for that matter.)

[QUOTE=JoesParty;1406833]My damsel in distress texted again this afternoon and put on a well-executed full court press. Knowing that I am a lawyer (one of only a couple of personal details I divulged).[/QUOTE]Acknowledging one's profession to a baby, especially when there is a professional license, certification or other governmental or regulated industry designation at stake, seems that it might bear some extra risks. Of course tracking down 'one' lawyer might be tough, but if one had a few hints it could be narrowed down considerably. Each to their own, but it seems letting those know that sort of info even before you have met (or meat) them, could add even more risk to this hobby. (whakko's abound out there ya know). Just how I read it, so Joe take it for what it is worth, just a mild and friendly observation. V

Hi there,

Well, if I wasn't supposed to know about this so many of you shouldn't have visited my blog these past few days. You made me curious about the referral source. And well, as Scott mentioned, I am in grad school so you can assume I'm fairly smart and was able to track this down. I will admit I'm curious about who "Scott" is and have challenged him to email me privately and tell me. As a writer, I'm ecstatic that others are promoting my blog in a flattering way. I started it almost a year ago with the friends' encouragement and it's just kind of become my place to chat about the sometimes fun, sometimes crazy world that is the sugar bowl.

But for you guys:

First, I'm not offended by what I've read and am actually glad to see that the SD's and those curious about becoming SD's have a place to post and ask questions. We SB's are very good with our network and I feared you were falling behind us. There are a lot of fake and miserable "girls" posing as SB's out there. Be smart, protect yourselves.

Second, I hope those of you who read it, have found my blog interesting and that I was able to give you insight into one SB's world. No, I'm not a stripper, hooker etc. I am an educated, elegant Sugar Baby who very much enjoys my life. I've now had 3 longer-term SD's (on my third one now. And had some minor SD's in between) and love the friendship, mentoring, spoiling, and sex that comes from this world.

Lastly, if you have any questions feel free to contact me through here or on my blog. I'm happy to answer any questions and provide the SB point of view.

Keep talking between yourselves and if you ever start a fake SB thread let me know. I'd like to post it on my site. I truly want the reference page of my site to be a source for both Sugar Daddies & Sugar Babies. The more we all share and have a common understanding of this world, the more we all enjoy it.

But, as always, I'm just one babies opinion.

Sbaby.

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1406210]Gentlemen,

We must remember that the women on this site, which has been developed by strippers and for strippers to post on, are professionals who make money from men with their wits and bodies. This does not, in my mind, make them representative of all SBs, though we all have commented on our share of strippers and pros who are using the SB forum to broaden their pool of males.

That being said, I was struck at how similar, in fact, their posts are to many of the posts here on USASG. Our specific thread is the exception, not the norm. The one solid piece of intel that I took away from the 5 pages of postings was that to bring a small gift to your first "date", perhaps not the M&G, was a good idea. I will do this myself, and see if it doesn't reduce the time between initial interview and the FD.

My father used to say to us kids,"the only time you stop learning is when you're dead."

Scott.

PS. If you want to read a blog by an SB who enjoys her life, here's the link:

[url]http://sugarbabystory.com/[/url]

I have a story to tell about her, but I don't have time right now. She is currently attending Grad school in a suburb of Chicago. Now remember, no outing anyone. I post this link for informational purposes only, and she must never know about our thread, ever.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Varoom;1407034]Acknowledging one's profession to a baby, especially when there is a professional license, certification or other governmental or regulated industry designation at stake, seems that it might bear some extra risks. (whakko's abound out there ya know).[/QUOTE]I will have to concur with Mr. Varoom. There is zero reason a potential or even a steady SB needs to know your true profession. In this game, one can be whomever they desire to be and as long as the sugar deal is kept, what does it really matter.

[QUOTE=JoesParty;1406995]I do use GV and only give out that number. Her second round of texts came before I had a chance to block her. But this is a good reminder to everyone of the benefits of that system. (Or a separate hobby phone, for that matter.)[/QUOTE]This has been debated before and to each his own, but, the only benefit to Google Voice over a hobby phone is a measure of convenience. True, the babies don't have your "real" number but Google does and, it seems that if push comes to shove, Uncle could tie you to it. A long shot? Yes. Still a possibility? YES! A hobby phone can be deposed of quickly and cleanly with zero ties to anyone and replaced quickly. Even one thread is too many, IMHO.

[QUOTE=Droo89;1404272]Thank you all for the advice. I was already leaning towards NOT going any further with the bartender. I just had to hear a voice of reason. Too much to lose. Thank you my friend.[/QUOTE]A long-ago girlfriend said,"I don't go fishing off the same dock I work at." Sage advice!

This section is fascinating. My thanks to all of you for contributing to it, I'm seriously considering taking the plunge.

[QUOTE=Gogababa;1406638]Thanks to all the pros for their posting and contribution. I am new as some of you know. And want to try it. My first one is just to meet for a coffee. What should I do? Should I take some gift (cash, gift card, flower, or something or not needed for coffee meet)? My first one. So will post it more after that.[/QUOTE]I believe the consensus on this is that there is no need to bring anything to the first M&G, but unless the baby has ordered already, I always pay for her coffee. If there is a followup for drinks or dinner, for example, some small token is not a bad idea. Hope this reply came in time. Let us know how things went.

Scott

I wanted to solicit some advice from my esteemed colleagues here. I have been seeing a SB exclusively for several months now, with her also telling me that I am the only guy she's seeing. While we've had our ups and downs, in general the situation has been pretty damn awesome. In between visits we communicate mostly through texts with an occasional telephone call thrown in, daily for the past few weeks. In the past week or so, the texts have become less frequent from her side to now nonexistent for the past few days. My last few texts have gone unanswered. We have had discussions about this in the past and she knows I don't appreciate the lack of communication.

My question to the board is at what point does one become / appear to be needy and pathetic on this end? My recent texts have not been of the variety of asking what's going on? What's wrong? Etc, just normal conversation. I will probably ask her what is going on soon with my next text, but wanted to get some of you to maybe talk me off the ledge. At this point I believe the end is either near or, more likely, the train has already left the station. We had a discussion that we would tell the other if we got to that point as opposed to shutting down communication and going away, like so many of the younger generation seem to do. It has been about a week since our normal communication changed.

Tell me what you think guys or what you would do in my situation as I know a few or you are in a similar position with your SB.

Ok, Scott encouraged me to write and share the Sugar Baby perspective so I'll start with this one and I have a few thoughts.

1) It's over and depending on her age she isn't mature enough to be able to write that "I've moved on" email.

2) She's busy and you're probably bordering on driving her insane. This tends to be the case with me as I am a very serious employee (when I was working) /Student. Sometimes that requires a little "dead" time. And, if you are constantly asking what's wrong, where are you during this time period. It means you don't get me and we're done, that simple.

My advice would be to simply ask for ten minutes for a call. If she gives it to you, then you have a serious conversation just to "check-in" and take a temperature of where you're at. If she doesn't, you have your answer and time to move on.

I once read that most sugar relationships last between 6-7 months. In my experience, this seems to be to true. If you're approaching that time line it may just be time to close that chapter and start a new one.

Hope that helps,

Mandy

[QUOTE=Magic Rat; 1408165]I wanted to solicit some advice from my esteemed colleagues here. I have been seeing a SB exclusively for several months now, with her also telling me that I am the only guy she's seeing. While we've had our ups and downs, in general the situation has been pretty damn awesome. In between visits we communicate mostly through texts with an occasional telephone call thrown in, daily for the past few weeks. In the past week or so, the texts have become less frequent from her side to now nonexistent for the past few days. My last few texts have gone unanswered. We have had discussions about this in the past and she knows I don't appreciate the lack of communication.

My question to the board is at what point does one become / appear to be needy and pathetic on this end? My recent texts have not been of the variety of asking what's going on? What's wrong? Etc, just normal conversation. I will probably ask her what is going on soon with my next text, but wanted to get some of you to maybe talk me off the ledge. At this point I believe the end is either near or, more likely, the train has already left the station. We had a discussion that we would tell the other if we got to that point as opposed to shutting down communication and going away, like so many of the younger generation seem to do. It has been about a week since our normal communication changed.

Tell me what you think guys or what you would do in my situation as I know a few or you are in a similar position with your SB.[/QUOTE]

Magic,

Oh, my brother! As you know, this is the story of my life with my ATF, and so I feel like I am in a good place to offer some observations on this subject.

First, as much as we would like to believe otherwise, we are not these little babies' first priority. I know, shocking, but true. This shouldn't be the case, but it is, and we have to keep in mind the fact that they have lives that sometimes get messy, complicated, or just busy.

Second, I believe for us older anglers, there is a tendency to get a little paranoid / needy when our babies go silent. I know I certainly went there, and it can make you crazy.

Since my make-up with my ATF, the communication level has not, in truth, gone up, but I am in a better head space about it. When I feel the black dog start to creep nearer, I tell myself that she is busy with her life, and I'd better get busy with mine. When we do get together, it is still magic, like it always was, but I just don't sweat it in the meantime.

I'm sure some of you, who have been kind enough to offer advice to me in the past, are laughing right about now, but I really am in that mental place, and it's a good one.

Give it some more time, Magic, and take that opportunity to come to peace with her lack of message traffic. If it just means she's busy, or out of town, or maybe has the flu, things will soon be back to normal. If, on the other hand, it means that she is gone, that will be awful, and certainly you will be sad, but you will get over it. Heartache, I believe, is the risk we all run if we are committed to this pursuit. These relationships all end sooner or later. It doesn't make it any easier to know this, but honestly, would you trade what you had with her for anything else?

Think positive, my friend. I'm sure she just dropped her cellphone and is getting a new one.

Best,

Scott

I do appreciate your perspective.

I guess I didn't make it clear that I haven't been bugging her questioning what's wrong? Why haven't you called / answered my texts? As I said we had been communicating daily and that has ceased. She is not the young thing that some of my colleagues enjoy. She's almost 50 and we've had this "relationship" for almost a year so I realize that's way past the normal shelf life.

Thanks for the insight. It appears I have a tough decision to make.

[QUOTE=SbabyBlog; 1407911]Hi there,

Well, if I wasn't supposed to know about this so many of you shouldn't have visited my blog these past few days. You made me curious about the referral source. And well, as Scott mentioned, I am in grad school so you can assume I'm fairly smart and was able to track this down.[/QUOTE]Well, fancy that! May I be the first to welcome you, Mandy. I sincerely hope the brotherhood will join me in saying that we look forward to your input and observations from the other side of the fence. I think you will find us to be a respectful, thoughtful and earnest group who enjoy the SD arena, with all its ups and downs. Certainly your contributions will go a long way to helping us have more "ups" than "downs", (however many puns that is, they are all intended).

I'm sorry nothing ever developed between us, but I have pm'ed you to attempt an explanation.

As always, don't forget to write!

All the best,

Scott

[QUOTE=Mr Strict;1408105]This has been debated before and to each his own, but, the only benefit to Google Voice over a hobby phone is a measure of convenience. True, the babies don't have your "real" number but Google does and, it seems that if push comes to shove, Uncle could tie you to it. A long shot? Yes. Still a possibility? YES! A hobby phone can be deposed of quickly and cleanly with zero ties to anyone and replaced quickly. Even one thread is too many, IMHO[/QUOTE]The technical advantages / disadvantages come into play for those of us not in a relationship. For those of us who are the only consideration is not getting caught with an extra phone we cannot explain which, if we have one, will happen. What do we say when she asks to borrow it?

Well magic, as Scotty said this is a chrnic problem we all have with out SBs. Smarter men than I have recommended strict adherence to NSA and avoidance of emotional attatchments to our SBs. Having said that.I am a pure example emotionally of what not to do. I am SO into my SB I am a helpless sap so I wanted to let you know you are not alone. .

Now back to you. Altered com could mean 1) she's not into you anymore. In her case being older I would not think she would take the 20 yr old "hit the ignore button " tactic. 2) She lost her phone and did not memorize or write down your number. This happened to me and caused several days of angst for me. I since made a game out of memorizing each other's numbers. 3) She has had an emergency that is so catastrophic that you are on the back burner. Like her husband discovered the affair, or something of that ilk.

When my baby went through stretches of incommunication and ultimately showed up on the SD site I wrote her an email. Basically I said that signs were there that suggested that she was not into me and looking for a new SD. I said that I would not accept being the fall back or backup guy while she is fishing, so I am done pending her answer to my mail. Best of luck, I'll miss you, Bah, blah. Well she burned up the airwaves and totally changed her approach. I made it clear that I wanted to touch base minimally but regularly, and she has been good about that.

RE: expectations : Depending on your original agreement, SDs who are paying a nice allowance and providing well in other ways for our SBs deserve a minimal show of respect, such as communicating in a reliable way and at least acting like she likes and cares about us. In the end, usually one party is more into the relationship than the other, so the less involved needs to be a good actor.

[QUOTE=Golfcart;1408237]The technical advantages / disadvantages come into play for those of us not in a relationship. For those of us who are the only consideration is not getting caught with an extra phone we cannot explain which, if we have one, will happen. What do we say when she asks to borrow it?[/QUOTE]This makes no sense to me. Why would you be carrying a hobby phone when you are off the clock? There is nothing so pressing that I need to have instant contact with anyone from my hobby world. And until I do need to use it, it is safely tucked away, never to be found. Having strange numbers appearing on my civilian phone and / or the SO answering it or checking to see who's calling when I'm not around seems a much bigger risk. Of course, not being in a relationship changes everything. Just my thought.

[QUOTE=Magic Rat; 1408165]I wanted to solicit some advice from my esteemed colleagues here. It has been about a week since our normal communication changed.

Tell me what you think guys or what you would do in my situation as I know a few or you are in a similar position with your SB.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Magic Rat; 1408193]She's almost 50 and we've had this "relationship" for almost a year so I realize that's way past the normal shelf life.

It appears I have a tough decision to make.[/QUOTE]Rat,

Theory: It seems more likely that your baby might be trying to protect herself, maybe trying to put some space in between the two of you. Maybe she has realized that she is in deeper than she would like, aka falling in love with something that she can only rent and can't own, and is merely trying to withdraw some to regain some perspective for protective sake. Afterall, these SB / SD relationships are supposed to be throw aways and either party should be able to walk away at any time without pain and agony, (in theory) , and it just doesn't work that way when that much time and emotion has been invested. Wish you the best on things working out in your favor. As tough as it might be to do, I would give her more space, with preferably little to NO contact. The ship will right itself. Best regards, V

Gentlemen,

Polo and I are set for Friday! She texted me this morning to tell me that while she was shaving (her legs, I'm guessing, right?) she thought of me and couldn't wait for tomorrow. She also stated that she had a few new yoga positions that she wanted to try out with me. I can't quite believe there is anything new to do, but I am excited to see what she has in mind. I checked, and my health insurance is all paid up, so I'm good to go. Unfortunately, I am totally swamped at work, and so will not be able to luxuriate with her this time like before, but [I]some[/I] time with her is better than none. I dream about her soft skin and thick chestnut hair.

As for ATF, we have a date set for Monday. She has indicated that her roommate is out of town visiting parents, so whatever is planned will either begin or end in bed, possibly both. Hooray, and hooray! Hopefully the beautiful, if unseasonal, weather we have been enjoying will hold, and we can spend some time outdoors. She is an avid cyclist, an interest I also share, so a long bike ride up the lakefront, followed by a fantastic lunch somewhere, followed by some Good Lovin' sounds like a day well spent, no?

On other fronts, hang in there, Magic. She will either come back to you or she won't, in which case we are here to help you grieve. Joe, you did the right thing, and as has been said already, you did not abandon anything more than a massive train wreck. Good job. Goga, good luck to you with your first forays into the SB world. You will have some failures, some near failures, and hopefully soon some success. Be patient, be honest with yourself and these little fish, and you will have a great time. There is nothing like it, trust me.

Take care, my brothers, and keep in touch.

Scott

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1408185]Magic,

Since my make-up with my ATF, the communication level has not, in truth, gone up, but I am in a better head space about it. When I feel the black dog start to creep nearer, I tell myself that she is busy with her life, and I'd better get busy with mine. When we do get together, it is still magic, like it always was, but I just don't sweat it in the meantime.

Best,

Scott[/QUOTE]What Scott says is so true when you get emotionally involved. I have been able to get in a better head space with my ATF and know if I want to see her I need to deal with some of her issues. She drives me crazy at times with her communication and lateness but when we do finally get together all of the problems of getting together go away. She is 23 and I understand how immature a 23 year old can be. I have tried to let her know it drives me crazy and she makes it better for a short time but in a few weeks it returns to the way it was. If this is how it needs to be I will manage.

Like I said it is all worth it though when we do spend time together. Plus the rate we have is. 4 so it make it more tolerable. She even has seen me for free recently so this relationship has moved into a different category I think.

I have been trying to keep myself busy with other SB's to distract myself but none have compared to the ATF, not even close yet.

SB #2. We had a car date for. 6 but she wasn't my type. She has tried to contact me but we talked and understands I will initiate when I am ready.

SB #3. Went to her place for $. Not really my type but had fun. She wants to get together but I have not replied.

I currently have been in talks with three other potential SB's through texts but have not met any of them yet.

Potential SB #4. We came to an agreement of $50 for three hours and she can host. She originally wanted $$$ but I told her that was out of my budget. Like others here I tell them what I can do and if they don't like it we both move on. $50 is more than I like to spend but with her hosting and not being rushed I am comfortable with the amount.

The other two have just been getting to know each other texts and what we are looking for. I am out of town for work for two weeks so I had to put the adventures on hold with them. The one is very promising but the other has been wanting me to wire her money. I have laughed about it because her story is so familiar with others on here. I want to help her but without even seeing her she is not getting anything. If we had a relationship I would have thought about it.

I have went back to AM again instead of renewing SA for the month and have had some luck. I have been emailing back and forth with three seriously and have met one of them for lunch. The AM route takes more work and they are not young HCB but it is free and more stable. The way I figure if I can find someone from AM that is stable, reliable and keeps me happy it will make my ATF easier to handle with her issues.

It is good to see the new people and all of the activity lately. It helps to be able to share the adventures.

Fix

Hi Guys,

So I've received a few welcoming dms and posts so I'll assume you're not sitting at your computer cringing that a sugar baby has found your secret conversation stream. Don't worry, your secret is safe with me. Wait a minute, that sounds just like what I've told married Sugar Daddies! Given that you've accepted me being here, I thought I would write just a small introduction so you understand my viewpoint whenever I respond to a post.

I'm a graduate student at one of the two prestigious universities in Chicago. I'm in my early 30's with blond hair and blue eyes and look like the "Girl Next Door". Scott can vouch for this. We've had a m&g but it never went anywhere as we both were becoming involved with others. The fun thing about me is my husband and I enjoy an open marriage. I've been an SB for two years now during which time I've experienced a few different SD's and types of arrangements. They ranged from AMAZINGLY expensive "date" nights with no compensation (the fantastic date was what I wanted) to my current SD who provides those fantastic dates, pays my rent, and takes me shopping occasionally. You can see what my last present was on my blog.

I'll admit I'm becoming a bit of a "snob" in what I look for in an SD. I'm picky and am starting to want more from the arrangement. But, I'm not a stripper, pro, or flaky 20 nor am I a conceited girl with unrealistic expectations. All of it has added up to me realizing my "value" in this world is a bit higher.

While I form friendships with many of the guys who contact me, example Scott. I am selective and prefer to find someone I can enjoy a ltr with. Now, that doesn't mean that I won't "test" a few SD's out while trying to find that ltr. After all, I am a girl and I do have my needs.

Oh yeah, concerning that. I'm just as bad as you all!

So here are the details of my current Sugar Situation:

I have an SD that I see once a week. We have dinner, go to a club or piano bar, and then spend the evening in his hotel. Before him, I had an SD that lived out of state and I visited over the weekend, once a month. I found it was a great way to escape the craziness of school and I always came back to campus revived. Alas, he got attached and ran away the other month. I'm currently looking for my new weekend escape SD and will be happy to share what that search is like so you can see that perspective.

The current predicament I am in, is that I wasn't too specific in my profile and now I have two dates next week with POTS (that's the SB word for a potential SD) but they are both "during the week" guys! I wasn't looking for them, they found me. And they both come across as fantastic SDs so I couldn't turn down the date. I'll have to choose between the two because I just do not have the time nor do I want that many SD's. I'm still searching for my weekend SD and I have a feeling I will be changing my profile over the next few days to reflect exactly that.

So, now you know about me, my experience in this world, and that I too am actively searching. As always, I'm happy to answer any questions you might have.

Night,

Mandy

First off, welcome sbabyblog! Being one of your readers, it was an interesting change of prespective to see these arrangements through the eyes of an SB. I hope you stick around here to help keep us all from wandering too far off the mark.

Now for a question:

How many of you have been approached by women who live considerable distances from you with suggestions that you 'hook up' with them? So far, I've had at least two, the most recent a SB who lives over four hours drive from me (and no, there's no airline service between us) wanting to "get together" with me. From her profile, I know she's not going to be driving to see me, so all the travel will be on my dime and time. So why would a woman think a potential SD would drive that far?