"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;3119516]Hey maybe it is just me and my "nature" but what you did violates the basis of privacy. Oh and sorry to appear so harsh but this really rankles me.

Why would you tie your real identity to your hobby email & phone number? Give your head a shake! What is the purpose of having a hobby number and e-mail if it is tied to your real person: name, DL#, DOB, SSN, mother's maiden name, etc!

If you travel burn off the dollars on that card on legitimate, non-hobby expenses and move on from it and start over.

What would scare me is that I left a "bread crumb" trail from my sugar email and sugar phone number to my real person. Perhaps it is time to dump those and move on there as well? If one continues to use the sugar email & phone, then the bread crumb trail to the real person works. Get a new email and phone and that trail leads to a dead end and only "past" connections are the risk factors.

But hey, I'm just paranoid. I'm just sayin'.[/QUOTE]Second follow up. What I've done since.

I called the card issuer and changed the phone # and email address associated with the account. So now it is just a US debit card that is approved for foreign purchases. What do you think my risk is now? I am thinking I should use this only for civi purchases, right? It will work on SA, but my name etc. Is associated with it, and that means SA could get that info. It's not like a OneVanilla that has only my zip code. Thanks for catching my bad. That's what the Forum is for and that's why I posted. Also, CL, I was going to send you a PM but your mailbox is full.

The problem with your question is that it varies by region. For example, broken down by date, I haven't been able to get a quality baby in NYC for anything less than $500, but in Philly, I've had a 8/9/8 teenage spinner who wanted an allowance of $200 per date and thought a date at chicken and Pete's was upscale. In DC, most 8/8/8 or above balk at an allowance of less than $400 and think a date at a Jose Andres restaurant is too "chainy. " Less than an hour away, I had a rotation filled with teen 9/9/9 spinners off of Baltimore Craigslist made up of students from um nursing, Hopkins, and Towson who were thrilled with $150 per date and a night out at the cheesecake factory in the inner harbor.

Long story short, it depends where you are. It also depends on your skill. For example, Hoya doesn't provide an allowance, and actually dates his sbs. Hes divorced and can offer a pot the possibility of a future with a rich older guy. I think Bike Rider is rhe same, except he has a SO. I dont have the game to get away with that and also gift an allowance to make sure that there is an even trade for discretion. On the other hand some guys take pride in making promises to a girl, but after a long night of sex and drinking, bounce the next day and leave nothing or some modest amount that they think in thier minds is ok since the baby had the privilidge of being with him. The last type of play is not my style for a lot of reasons, but to each his own.

But yes, aggregating figures is a tried and true method. Starting at $1 k a month makes a baby feel less like a two bit SW, and is often less than a decent escorts. Of course until they are proven and trusted, you would never give a baby $1 k up front. That's when I tell them I provide a weekly allowance at first. I tend to stay away from talking about a per date allowance since it often makes them feel cheap, and also has the upside of allowing for more than one date a week.

Just my two cents.

Fish out.

[QUOTE=Doc2016;3117928]Hey all. Just curious as to what all you guys are doing allowance wise? One thing I noticed that seems to get more reception is to speak larger, whole amounts vice per meet amounts. Say you offer a G for 3-4 dates a month. Broken down that's a quarter each visit. But they mostly hear that large number. If you only meet a couple times, you get a lower overall cost. So how do you guys roll with this?[/QUOTE]

Some babies who are Uber competitive will go into overdrive when they know they are not the only one in the mix. They will refuse an allowance, give you crazy sex, offer to go bareback, etc. To convince you that they are the only one you need. It's a complete turnoff to others who view it as a std risk, or who lack the will to compete. To some it doesn't matter, since they are dating multiple daddies and so expect that you're doing the same.

If you have a competitive baby, letting her know about others could be a good thing. I've found that most girls are competitive but it often makes them do some crazy things, especially during that time of the month.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3118368]I'm getting my first going, and wonder about some stuff. Do they know of the other (s), and if so, can you play them off against each other to get better deals? I have one on a monthly allowance, one who likes pay per meet, equally attractive in their own ways. Any other key advice I need to heed?[/QUOTE]

Help me brothers. I have my newest baby in the FC in the morning (mimosas all ready to go), and she had her purse stolen last weekend so she has no CCs. I attempted the hotel booking ala the famous F Scott recipe found here. Found a good rate online. Phoned the hotel and booked using a prepaid debit card (OneVanilla) with $210 on it. I knew I was going to have to show a DL but went with a reservation name that is an easy misspelling of my real one. I show up, she barely glances at the DL, and I think I'm good. I give her the debit card to run and the system won't take it. The amount that their system was going to hold against the card was $190. They would not allow me to pay for the whole thing in advance in cash. They said they would take my cash in the morning, though. However, to check in, I was forced to give them a credit card, not a debit card, and the only thing I had that I felt even remotely comfortable with was a business CC that I pay, the SO never sees. This was at a downmarket brand of Marriot. What did I do wrong, and how do I avoid this in the future?

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;3119903]Some babies who are Uber competitive will go into overdrive when they know they are not the only one in the mix. They will refuse an allowance, give you crazy sex, offer to go bareback, etc. To convince you that they are the only one you need. It's a complete turnoff to others who view it as a std risk, or who lack the will to compete. To some it doesn't matter, since they are dating multiple daddies and so expect that you're doing the same.

If you have a competitive baby, letting her know about others could be a good thing. I've found that most girls are competitive but it often makes them do some crazy things, especially during that time of the month.[/QUOTE]Good insights. The paypermeet baby probably is dating others, and mentioned she had a clean STD test to show me. The allowance girl is probably not dating others (and I like the idea of having her exclusive), is smart and ambitious, even driven. Sounds competitive to me. But she also may want a 'BF'. Is there danger of driving her away if I let her know about the other girl, and how do you bring a topic like this up? The paypermeet girl likely wouldn't be motivated by allowance girl, right?

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3119565]

We still need to find a prepaid debit card that is approved for international purposes.[/QUOTE]No such beast. I've searched. You can get virtual credit card numbers on the dark web, but you're getting credit card numbers and a web interface from someone completely unknown to you. The potential to be ripped off is high.

If they'll take the digits over the phone or via email at SA, what bother with anything else?

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3119833]Second follow up. What I've done since.

...
It's not like a OneVanilla that has only my zip code. .... [/QUOTE]No need to use your real zip code. Just set it to one you'll remember easily.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;3120151]No need to use your real zip code. Just set it to one you'll remember easily.[/QUOTE]Yep, that's what I've been doing. I have a total sugar identity, with the sugar last name that goes with an address with a zip code I always use. That part I've got OK.

I met a decent girl, who wants $1200 per month (or a little more). She claims we have to sneak in her apt (she has roommates but has her own room). The way she talked, I could see her 2-3 times per week. She lives in a very poor area (not DC, NYC).

When I offered $1000 and she take down her SA and whatsherprice ads, she kind of got mad. She stated "I don't know why $1200+ is a problem for you, all the other guys that I start to talk to are completely ok with that. You are the complete package and they are not. My needs ($1200) are greater than my wants (me I guess) right now. ".

Should I take the plunge and go for the $1200 per month? The bedroom skills could be a home run or a dead fish. $1200 per month is above my sugar budget for the month but 2-3 times a week of mind blowing sex might be worth it.

Any advise is appreciated! Thank you gentleman. Keep the hunt going!

[QUOTE=EnzoAmore;3120539]I met a decent girl, who wants $1200 per month (or a little more). She claims we have to sneak in her apt (she has roommates but has her own room). The way she talked, I could see her 2-3 times per week. She lives in a very poor area (not DC, NYC).

When I offered $1000 and she take down her SA and whatsherprice ads, she kind of got mad. She stated "I don't know why $1200+ is a problem for you, all the other guys that I start to talk to are completely ok with that. You are the complete package and they are not. My needs ($1200) are greater than my wants (me I guess) right now. ".

Should I take the plunge and go for the $1200 per month? The bedroom skills could be a home run or a dead fish. $1200 per month is above my sugar budget for the month but 2-3 times a week of mind blowing sex might be worth it.

Any advise is appreciated! Thank you gentleman. Keep the hunt going![/QUOTE]Its simple, first for 2-3 times a week plus she has a place its a good value. 2nd if you can't afford it move on or get a second job.

[QUOTE=EnzoAmore;3120539]I met a decent girl, who wants $1200 per month (or a little more). She claims we have to sneak in her apt (she has roommates but has her own room). The way she talked, I could see her 2-3 times per week. She lives in a very poor area (not DC, NYC). When I offered $1000 and she take down her SA and whatsherprice ads, she kind of got mad. She stated "I don't know why $1200+ is a problem for you, all the other guys that I start to talk to are completely ok with that. You are the complete package and they are not. My needs ($1200) are greater than my wants (me I guess) right now. ". Should I take the plunge and go for the $1200 per month? The bedroom skills could be a home run or a dead fish. $1200 per month is above my sugar budget for the month but 2-3 times a week of mind blowing sex might be worth it. Any advise is appreciated! Thank you gentleman. Keep the hunt going![/QUOTE]Well this is one reason I avoid the ones that insist on talking money up front. It forces the entire situation to revolve around some number that's in her head or your head or both. I tell them numbers are for escorts, I'm in this to date, and I enjoy gifting the girls I date. I could never see the logic in two people discussing some monthly amount up front when the two haven't even met yet. You might not like each other. You might think each other smells bad. You might think the other doesn't look like their pics. So how does it make sense to come up with some firm agreement based on presumptions that could turn out to be wrong? Isn't it better for both of you to see what you're really working with, and figure that all out once the facts are known?

If done any other way, she's basically telling herself "hmm, how much would it take for me to fuck this random guy I've never even seen before". Only a pro, UTR or pro-wannabe would do that.

That said, if you have already made the mistake of discussing money up front and really want this girl, then for what she is saying (12 visits a month for $1200), I'd say that's a fairly economical expectation in the sugar world. Sometimes I practice negotiating with girls in markets that I have no intention of visiting just to stay on top of that game and keep skills sharp on what makes these girls tick. Fairly regularly I can talk girls down from $400-500 per visit expectation to $100 per visit, but again my purpose here is not the numbers themselves but paying close attention to the processes involved in causing them to revalue their pussy at 20% of their original twat-appraisal, and zeroing in on what works with what girl and what does not.

Or, another thing you could do is agree to her original offer contingent on pay per visit, then just visit her 10 times a month instead of 12 and you've hit your desired target.

So I took the advice from many mongers. I got a vanilla one card and then I texted the information to SA help desk. In less than 12 hours they emailed me and said my subscription was paid. It was very easy.

I already had the meet and greet with her. We talked at the end of it and she said her bills were $1200 minimum a month.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3120844]Well this is one reason I avoid the ones that insist on talking money up front. It forces the entire situation to revolve around some number that's in her head or your head or both. I tell them numbers are for escorts, I'm in this to date, and I enjoy gifting the girls I date. I could never see the logic in two people discussing some monthly amount up front when the two haven't even met yet. You might not like each other. You might think each other smells bad. You might think the other doesn't look like their pics. So how does it make sense to come up with some firm agreement based on presumptions that could turn out to be wrong? Isn't it better for both of you to see what you're really working with, and figure that all out once the facts are known?

If done any other way, she's basically telling herself "hmm, how much would it take for me to fuck this random guy I've never even seen before". Only a pro, UTR or pro-wannabe would do that.

That said, if you have already made the mistake of discussing money up front and really want this girl, then for what she is saying (12 visits a month for $1200), I'd say that's a fairly economical expectation in the sugar world. Sometimes I practice negotiating with girls in markets that I have no intention of visiting just to stay on top of that game and keep skills sharp on what makes these girls tick. Fairly regularly I can talk girls down from $400-500 per visit expectation to $100 per visit, but again my purpose here is not the numbers themselves but paying close attention to the processes involved in causing them to revalue their pussy at 20% of their original twat-appraisal, and zeroing in on what works with what girl and what does not.

Or, another thing you could do is agree to her original offer contingent on pay per visit, then just visit her 10 times a month instead of 12 and you've hit your desired target.[/QUOTE]It is often difficult to not discuss numbers prior to meeting. From the woman's perspective she doesn't want to waste her time on someone doesn't have the means or desire to meet her expectations. From my perspective, I don't waste the time for a meeting only to find out she has GPS. I do see JZ's point though.

I approach it on a case by case basis. I prefer to take JZ's approach, but there are times where I can't or prefer to just have a more transactional meeting. When I know it is just going to be transactional, I always discuss the gift up front to avoid wasting time and potential restaurant drama.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;3121151]It is often difficult to not discuss numbers prior to meeting. From the woman's perspective she doesn't want to waste her time on someone doesn't have the means or desire to meet her expectations. From my perspective, I don't waste the time for a meeting only to find out she has GPS. I do see JZ's point though.

I approach it on a case by case basis. I prefer to take JZ's approach, but there are times where I can't or prefer to just have a more transactional meeting. When I know it is just going to be transactional, I always discuss the gift up front to avoid wasting time and potential restaurant drama.[/QUOTE]If I were just going for quantity, I would have to say I definitely lose a measurable amount of opportunity by sending the money-first girls on their way, but I've already accepted that sugaring is a lot of work, so after a while I think it actually makes things easier to just pass on the girls who insist on discussing it. There are a lot of girls who are conditioned to discussing money first, because the blogs have told them that's the only way they should do it, and that behavior has been reinforced by guys that are willing to play their game to get in their pants. And that's fine, because I'm willing to forego getting in their pants, because the less time I waste on them, the quicker I can find the kind of girl I really want.

But as I've mentioned before, I absolutely do discuss money when hunting for stripper takeout, that's all about the art of the deal (and part of the fun, I think). But then again whenever I walk into a strip club, I'm going in with the knowledge that there may not even be any girls in the place I like, and even if there are, there may not be any that are available enough or interested enough to go home with me, regardless of the offering. I just know its going to cost me one way or another because they went to work to make money that night and at a minimum I will have to buy them out.

But well employed strippers are a different group. As far as SBs go, My personality is just too dominate to do things her way. And to do things my way is more like "let's meet and see if we like each other and go from there" which I think is fair enough. I don't like transactional sure things. It's just my preference but the challenge and going into it not knowing exactly how it is going to turn out is part of the fun. I don't mind paying money (actually prefer to) but I don't want payment to stand in the way of the suspense.

My newest baby, OCHottie, went to the FC with me for the morning today. This is my 2nd experience with a mystical 'girl 1/3 my age' - she's 21. Unlike the first experience, this girl wasn't pudgy. Big tits (not firm, not floppy), serious skills. She's a first timer, and I teased her that she would only be an official sugar baby once I penetrated her. And when I did, she immediately got 'that look', and I knew we were good.

Sorry to be repetitive, but my playing in the bowl is due all to the outstanding senior members who post such excellent advice here. I couldn't have imagined even in May that I could be having mind-blowing sex with a 20-something. I am far better in the FC than I've been in civi life over the past couple of decades. Sometimes I feel I am racing to do this before I die. I will at least do so with a smile on my face.

[QUOTE=EnzoAmore;3121145]I already had the meet and greet with her. We talked at the end of it and she said her bills were $1200 minimum a month.[/QUOTE]Ok, I misunderstood the situation a bit, I think you did the right thing by meeting with her first at least. The only time I've had a meet and greet, then discussed money, it turned out badly (yes that was a mistake I made exactly one time in the past, never again).

The other times I showed her, via taking her out for a night on the town, that I am very much for real in terms of my ABILITY to give her what she really wants (never confuse ability with willingness). I might be staying in an expensive hotel, I might take her for dinner and drinks at expensive places and burn $200 just on that portion of the date and I might throw the waiter a ridiculously generous tip for doing his job well.

This sends a very clear message to the girl. I can afford to do the above because I'm not just some Walmart door greeter pretending to be successful on the Internet, I am what I say I am and I got here for a reason. Now its up to her to prove she's good enough. By this time she's smart enough to know she's not the only 20 year old in the world who would like to get fucked by me and helped with life's bills. She realizes she is in competition, and that if she fucks the date up she might lose the chance.

So prior to the M&G I tell her let's just meet and see if we have a good time. Then I make sure she has a good time, from the conversation to making sure she orders whatever she wants from the menu and / or goes wherever she wants for a night on the town, to the sex afterwards. Call it micro-spoiling if you want. What is somewhat tricky about it is that I enjoy the dating aspect too, so even if I blow a significant amount of cash on dinner and drinks, she really only benefited from roughly half of that, the other half of the expenses were enjoyed by me.

In bed, I'm not overly focused on what I want to do, but equally focused on what it takes to get her off. That last sentence is what really saves you on the total gift amount and ensures future interest. Solve that problem and it really doesn't matter what you gift them in cash the next morning, they will continue texting you non stop for the next week about how over the top amazing it was and how they can't get it out of their mind.

If they feel like they are there solely to meet your needs, they will bill you for it. If you're meeting THEIR needs, they are way too busy enjoying the moment to to worry about they are getting paid.

In my case, the hotel room is overhead I would have had anyway from traveling, so it would be an expensive hobby if I rolled that into the mix, but since it needs to be paid whether or not I have a girl I don't figure it in to the total.

Enzo sounds like you've got a pot on the hook. My recommendation would be to break up the allowance initially to make sure she doesn't pull a grab and dash. Tell her you prefer weekly allowance at first until trust is developed. When she balks, tell her that you would never expect intimacy from a baby without giving her an allowance, and would expect the same consideration from your future baby. If she responds by saying that she can be trusted and that by breaking up the allowance you are making her feel cheap, tell her that you've reconsidered, and that you'll provide the allowance on a monthly basis at the end of the month (I. E. After your 3-4 visits are completed). I've found this tactic to cause a pot to backtrack and to become very happy with weekly allowance, which is essentially a pay per meet allowance with the upside of having the possibility of a free date if you see the baby more than once in that week.

By characterizing the allowance as "weekly" you avoid the stigma attached to "pay to play". You also get to sample the goods before going all in with a $1,200 investment. If she is a dead fish in bed, then you've protected yourself. This also has the added bonus of guaranteeing 4 meets a month (assuming you have the time for four meets).

There are plenty of guys in the bowl that consider paying for a date and providing a very modest gift as their "allowance" to a baby. I know this because my prior babies have complained about guys like this. These SDs talk up a girl, setting expectations high, dance around discussion of allowance but provide just enough of a hint of some huge payday that the pot is willing to take a chance but then leave a gift that doesn't match expectations. The babies are often too inexperienced in life to complain, and who would they complain to? Not something you would share with a family member or a friend. This tactic works for some who travel since there is no expectation of a recurring relationship and on an inexperienced pot. After a pot is burned once though, you can rest assured they will almost never agree to a fc date without first establishing what the allowance will be. Then the next SD is left with a situation where the pot won't come to the m&g until allowance is discussed.

I don't critcize the above method since to each his own, but in my experience, if you are trying to build up a rotation of recurring SBs, the better way to do it is to communicate expectations after the m&g, as you have done.

Remember, this is the sugar bowl. If these girls wanted to date an older guy for fun without the expectation of an allowance they would be on tinder or match.

Good luck with your pot. May you have many trips to the fc with her.

Fish out.

[QUOTE=EnzoAmore;3121145]I already had the meet and greet with her. We talked at the end of it and she said her bills were $1200 minimum a month.[/QUOTE]

Ffa, congrats again! It's childish, I know, but I have to say I told you so. You have hit paydirt by reading the board, studying the tactics, and reviewing the tips compiled by an enterprising brother (the one where JizzLizzard is the admini assistant, or whatever his new handle is now).

Technology is a wonderful thing. No? If you really like this new baby, set her up with subscription accounts like Pandora One, Pandora Plus (all these young babies love Electronic dance music) and / or Netflix. These subscriptions are super cheap, but have the effect of cementing your arrangement.

My post below was from a few weeks ago. I'm glad that the bowl has worked out for you!

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;3096032]Congrats on the win Ffa. As you continue to play, I think you'll find that you'll hit paydirt eventually. That spinner you're looking for is waiting for you.

It's a numbers game. Even a fat, arrogant, narcissist has a chance in the bowl.

Read the entire thread that was put together by an enterprising young SD (I think JeezLizzard is the admin assistant for that thread).

It has great tips for how to differentiate yourself from the other daddys (e. G. Work out, be nice, always leave an encounter by being respectful even if it doesn't end up at the fc since they tend to cum back after meeting the Jerks etc).

Give it time and you'll meet that 20 year old spinner, who looks like a librarian when she walks into the hotel in the trench coat you bought for her, but is wearing nothing but a bra, garter, and black nylon thigh highs underneath. When she's on the bed facedown begging you to take her in the ass, while she's playing with her dripping wet pussy, you'll be glad you stuck with it. You may even start to like doggy more.

Oh how I miss my swim instructor some days.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;3121639]Ffa, congrats again! It's childish, I know, but I have to say I told you so. You have hit paydirt by reading the board, studying the tactics, and reviewing the tips compiled by an enterprising brother (the one where JizzLizzard is the admini assistant, or whatever his new handle is now).

Technology is a wonderful thing. No? If you really like this new baby, set her up with subscription accounts like Pandora One, Pandora Plus (all these young babies love Electronic dance music) and / or Netflix. These subscriptions are super cheap, but have the effect of cementing your arrangement.

My post below was from a few weeks ago. I'm glad that the bowl has worked out for you![/QUOTE]Thanks for the attaboy, Fish, and the encouragement after '1/3 my age' #1. Are there technical details about getting a girl a scrip to those services discretely that you can share? I'm not familiar with them. Some who have ongoing babies are getting instruction from their girls about the new techno world, but I'm not quite there yet. I have another trip to the FC with a model-quality 20's girl next week. Hitting my wallet hard, but I jumped over many other wannabee daddies to get there. Will post the outcome.

[QUOTE=Doc2016;3117928]Hey all. Just curious as to what all you guys are doing allowance wise? One thing I noticed that seems to get more reception is to speak larger, whole amounts vice per meet amounts. Say you offer a G for 3-4 dates a month. Broken down that's a quarter each visit. But they mostly hear that large number. If you only meet a couple times, you get a lower overall cost. So how do you guys roll with this?[/QUOTE]I've never done the retainer / allowance thing. That said, I have a 100 percent batting average offering $100-$150 for a single date. I admit that I am not scoring the 10/10 models with that, but I have gotten solid 7/8's who provided a great experience.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3121403]Ok, I misunderstood the situation a bit, I think you did the right thing by meeting with her first at least. The only time I've had a meet and greet, then discussed money, it turned out badly (yes that was a mistake I made exactly one time in the past, never again).

The other times I showed her, via taking her out for a night on the town, that I am very much for real in terms of my ABILITY to give her what she really wants (never confuse ability with willingness). I might be staying in an expensive hotel, I might take her for dinner and drinks at expensive places and burn $200 just on that portion of the date and I might throw the waiter a ridiculously generous tip for doing his job well.

This sends a very clear message to the girl. I can afford to do the above because I'm not just some Walmart door greeter pretending to be successful on the Internet, I am what I say I am and I got here for a reason. Now its up to her to prove she's good enough. By this time she's smart enough to know she's not the only 20 year old in the world who would like to get fucked by me and helped with life's bills. She realizes she is in competition, and that if she fucks the date up she might lose the chance.

So prior to the M&G I tell her let's just meet and see if we have a good time. Then I make sure she has a good time, from the conversation to making sure she orders whatever she wants from the menu and / or goes wherever she wants for a night on the town, to the sex afterwards. Call it micro-spoiling if you want. What is somewhat tricky about it is that I enjoy the dating aspect too, so even if I blow a significant amount of cash on dinner and drinks, she really only benefited from roughly half of that, the other half of the expenses were enjoyed by me.

In bed, I'm not overly focused on what I want to do, but equally focused on what it takes to get her off. That last sentence is what really saves you on the total gift amount and ensures future interest. Solve that problem and it really doesn't matter what you gift them in cash the next morning, they will continue texting you non stop for the next week about how over the top amazing it was and how they can't get it out of their mind.

If they feel like they are there solely to meet your needs, they will bill you for it. If you're meeting THEIR needs, they are way too busy enjoying the moment to to worry about they are getting paid.

In my case, the hotel room is overhead I would have had anyway from traveling, so it would be an expensive hobby if I rolled that into the mix, but since it needs to be paid whether or not I have a girl I don't figure it in to the total.[/QUOTE]Do you offer her a cash gift before she leaves? Based on some of your previous posts, I suspect you do to keep things at "arm's length".

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3121737]Thanks for the attaboy, Fish, and the encouragement after '1/3 my age' #1. Are there technical details about getting a girl a scrip to those services discretely that you can share? I'm not familiar with them. Some who have ongoing babies are getting instruction from their girls about the new techno world, but I'm not quite there yet. I have another trip to the FC with a model-quality 20's girl next week. Hitting my wallet hard, but I jumped over many other wannabee daddies to get there. Will post the outcome.[/QUOTE]Congrats! I'm not old enough yet to hit the 3 x club yet without going to jail, but the 2. 5 x club has been very very good to me.

You should be able to set it up with a gift card and your sugar email (or theirs). Just make sure and not let it run out while you still have her in the rotation!

[QUOTE=BikeRider;3122037]Do you offer her a cash gift before she leaves? Based on some of your previous posts, I suspect you do to keep things at "arm's length".[/QUOTE]Oh, I always gift them. Even when they act like money is the last thing on their mind and they weren't expecting it, I insist they take it. I just don't get involved in discussions about how much it's going to be, because even I don't know how much the date is going to be worth to me until after its all said and done.

They are always ecstatic with the gift and overall experience and eager to see me next time I'm in their area.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3122090]Oh, I always gift them. Even when they act like money is the last thing on their mind and they weren't expecting it, I insist they take it. I just don't get involved in discussions about how much it's going to be, because even I don't know how much the date is going to be worth to me until after its all said and done.

They are always ecstatic with the gift and overall experience and eager to see me next time I'm in their area.[/QUOTE]What's the range you typically gift then?

[QUOTE=BikeRider;3122098]What's the range you typically gift then?[/QUOTE]My "target" for a SB is $200, but it can be more depending on circumstances, for example if she drove a long way to meet me, stays all night (multiple fucks), or just turns out to have such a great attitude that I'm inspired to help more. I place a value on how much time we spent together, how much I enjoyed the date overall, her performance / effort / vibe with me, then figure in things like her circumstances and cost of living in her geographical area, etc. And gift from there.

Strippers usually cost a little more for on the spot takeout, because they can fairly easily make a couple of hundred on a single lap dance customer, so sometimes a slightly larger carrot must be dangled.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3122090]Oh, I always gift them. Even when they act like money is the last thing on their mind and they weren't expecting it, I insist they take it. I just don't get involved in discussions about how much it's going to be, because even I don't know how much the date is going to be worth to me until after its all said and done.

They are always ecstatic with the gift and overall experience and eager to see me next time I'm in their area.[/QUOTE]Funny I've never found a girl from one of the arrangement sites that wasn't interested in what's in it for them before meeting or at the m / g. I find that if they know up front then experience is way better than if they are worried that the guy is to leave nothing or something they feel is appropriate. That is usually the first concern especially if new that some dude is going to fuck them for nothing. Most are here for financial help so that is there main concern starting off. Not sure where your findi g these gems of urs that aren't concerned by there arrangement and aren't expecting any but kudos.

I personally don't talk allowance until the m / g is over and I explain that when they contact me. But common sense dictates that girls needing help are concerned about what your doing for them. They can get fucked for free anywhere they choose and by who they choose. Lots of younger women that civy date older dudes for free but usually you don't find them on an arrangement site.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;3122048]Congrats! I'm not old enough yet to hit the 3 x club yet without going to jail, but the 2. 5 x club has been very very good to me.

You should be able to set it up with a gift card and your sugar email (or theirs). Just make sure and not let it run out while you still have her in the rotation![/QUOTE]Thanks. Its kinda like golf. The older you get the easier it is to shoot your age. Another (anonymous) bowlbuddy who I've taunted (ha!) that he can't match my feats (legally) has been skating on thin ice that's been on earth a couple of years less than twenty. So, hey, for that, you only need to be 54.

Here's another relevant golf quote, don't know from who: Golf is a lot like sex, lots of people want to do it, most aren't very good at it, but they still enjoy it. The bowl has done wonders for my sex life; I recall some old monger posting that he's having the best sex of his life in his 60's, with women he couldn't have imagined fucking when he was their age. Roger that.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3121403]In bed, I'm not overly focused on what I want to do, but equally focused on what it takes to get her off. That last sentence is what really saves you on the total gift amount and ensures future interest. Solve that problem and it really doesn't matter what you gift them in cash the next morning, they will continue texting you non stop for the next week about how over the top amazing it was and how they can't get it out of their mind.

If they feel like they are there solely to meet your needs, they will bill you for it. If you're meeting THEIR needs, they are way too busy enjoying the moment to to worry about they are getting paid.

In my case, the hotel room is overhead I would have had anyway from traveling, so it would be an expensive hobby if I rolled that into the mix, but since it needs to be paid whether or not I have a girl I don't figure it in to the total.[/QUOTE]Of course, I endorse this idea in any circumstance I am in bed with a woman, but I also recall a profile I saw on SA. Something like 'don't tell me you are going to pay me in orgasms' LOL. I know you, JL, believe strongly in a gift of some size to establish the hierarchy of the arrangement. But of course, it should be the case that a baby elated by the sex may be willing to take less to keep it coming. That seems like an ideal situation. My sample size is small so far, but I've never had a sense my babies were anything less than happy w / our sex, but that hasn't translated to a discount. Maybe I just need the right girl.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;3122129]Funny I've never found a girl from one of the arrangement sites that wasn't interested in what's in it for them before meeting or at the m / g. I find that if they know up front then experience is way better than if they are worried that the guy is to leave nothing or something they feel is appropriate. That is usually the first concern especially if new that some dude is going to fuck them for nothing. Most are here for financial help so that is there main concern starting off. Not sure where your findi g these gems of urs that aren't concerned by there arrangement and aren't expecting any but kudos.[/QUOTE]Most of the girls probably are concerned about their arrangement I would imagine, and this of course is what lures them into the bowl to begin with. But what happens next depends on the players. A guy that never had much success in regular civy dating is going to have to get used to paying top dollar for pussy unless he is willing and able to either improve his game or lower his standards. I started working on my game at a very early age, so getting pussy has come easy for me pretty much my entire life. Getting what I want out of the bowl just plays upon that experience. Getting the girls to meet me without discussing money has everything to do with the conversation that takes place between the time I make initial contact with her and the actual date. Getting her into the FC has everything to do with the conversation that takes place at the M&G.

If you pay attention to some of the stuff getting posted here, you realize that the way I play in the bowl is unique. I have not seen a single poster here that has the same modus operandi, philosophies, approaches, or methodologies. Most are vastly different. Thus is stands to reason that those who do things different than me are going to encounter vastly different experiences. I wouldn't expect that someone would be able to just read my posts and go out and duplicate successes. I've been working on my game since I was probably 12-13 years old, and sexually active just as long. You learn a lot about women along a path started that young.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;3122129]
I personally don't talk allowance until the m / g is over and I explain that when they contact me. But common sense dictates that girls needing help are concerned about what your doing for them. They can get fucked for free anywhere they choose and by who they choose. Lots of younger women that civy date older dudes for free but usually you don't find them on an arrangement site.[/QUOTE]If they want to get fucked for free, they will with or without an arrangement with an SD, even if the SD thinks they are exclusive. But there are a lot of girls out there that have no desire, free or otherwise, to fuck a jobless kid who still lives with his parents. Women have been physically attracted to older men of higher financial status since the beginning of time, it's really not a new concept. Lots of girls join a SB website as a curiosity exercise, but what happens after they join varies greatly among SDs.

There are probably a lot more girls out there that insist on discussing money up front than those willing to do things my way. Part of my success involves identifying those time-wasters and firing them before they are hired. This allows me to use time more effectively and focus on those who are viable prospects.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3122337]Of course, I endorse this idea in any circumstance I am in bed with a woman, but I also recall a profile I saw on SA. Something like 'don't tell me you are going to pay me in orgasms' LOL. I know you, JL, believe strongly in a gift of some size to establish the hierarchy of the arrangement. But of course, it should be the case that a baby elated by the sex may be willing to take less to keep it coming. That seems like an ideal situation. My sample size is small so far, but I've never had a sense my babies were anything less than happy w / our sex, but that hasn't translated to a discount. Maybe I just need the right girl.[/QUOTE]The only way you could get a "discount" is if you already had an established agreed upon price. Once that number has been identified as an expectation, it is usually too late for me to save the situation.

So the situation you're describing is already very far outside the zone of how I do things. If I had a solution for you I would offer it here, but I don't. I just don't discuss price with them, so there is no expectation of payment for a certain amount and therefore logically impossible for a discount of any kind to exist. What is 50% of X, if X has not been defined? If price is agreed on then in my mind it's a loss and not worth saving.

My methods cannot really be selectively combined in piecemeal -- my strategy only works for me if I stick to all the key tenets, the first and most important one being that I don't talk money up front. If I tried to selectively choose the parts of my strategy I like (for example like not agreeing to a price), while ignoring other parts of my strategy (like busting my ass at the gym so that I look my best), it would all fall apart. It's an all-or-none deal.

Bottom line is, girls know when they take one look at you whether they want to fuck you or not. If they don't want to fuck you, compensation is going to have to happen some other way. By not talking money up front, I guarantee that I am meeting a girl that has at least some level of interest in me other than just money (or at least is open-minded enough to consider the bowl a dating scenario and not just an escort service by another name).

In terms of meeting the right girl for this, you have to be willing to let a few go for every one that will materialize into a date. This works well if you're the traveling sort because you're able to be patient about how many legitimate POTS you might have in a given city. For someone working out of a single geographic area, this might be more frustrating because of the opportunity lost in a smaller pool of choices (even one big city is not as large a pool as multiple cities). The fact that I can only play when I travel is also kind of a plus in this regard, because it places limitations on how much time I would have to meet anyway.

For example, if I chat up 10 girls, and 6-7 of those have to be immediately cast aside because they insist on talking allowance up front, and then maybe ultimately I have to narrow it down to 2-3 girls, it's not a problem for me, because it might be a long time before I'm in that city again. The next time I look for POTS it will be a completely new crop of girls and I can start all over again. If I were doing this full time in a single city, just cutting loose that first crop of six girls would probably be incredibly frustrating, but thankfully its a non issue.

It's also important to point out that the hunt is as much fun to me as the sex. That's why I enjoy the challenge of stripper takeout so much. I don't get that vibe from most others here, I feel like most SDs here want as much pussy as possible as cheap as possible. I actually like the challenge, it doesn't bother me to know when I walk in a strip club I am most likely going home alone, nor does it bother me to know that I'm probably going to have to spend 20 hours on an SD site for every hour of sex I actually obtain. I hate shooting fish in a barrel and I love a challenge. I want to weed out the easy girls that sell out for a certain amount. I want to limit my choices to the real gems, the hard to get, the ones that have some genuine attraction to me. Clearly that's not going to be every girl. Some will decide right off the bat I'm not their type, yes they might do it for money anyway, but I want the less traveled roads. I want the girls who decide I'm their type right away and their interest in me transcends payment.

[QUOTE=JZLizard;3122459]The only way you could get a "discount" is if you already had an established agreed upon price. Once that number has been identified as an expectation, it is usually too late for me to save the situation.

So the situation you're describing is already very far outside the zone of how I do things. If I had a solution for you I would offer it here, but I don't. I just don't discuss price with them, so there is no expectation of payment for a certain amount and therefore logically impossible for a discount of any kind to exist. What is 50% of X, if X has not been defined? If price is agreed on then in my mind it's a loss and not worth saving.

My methods cannot really be selectively combined in piecemeal -- my strategy only works for me if I stick to all the key tenets, the first and most important one being that I don't talk money up front. If I tried to selectively choose the parts of my strategy I like (for example like not agreeing to a price), while ignoring other parts of my strategy (like busting my ass at the gym so that I look my best), it would all fall apart. It's an all-or-none deal.

Bottom line is, girls know when they take one look at you whether they want to fuck you or not. If they don't want to fuck you, compensation is going to have to happen some other way. By not talking money up front, I guarantee that I am meeting a girl that has at least some level of interest in me other than just money (or at least is open-minded enough to consider the bowl a dating scenario and not just an escort service by another name).

In terms of meeting the right girl for this, you have to be willing to let a few go for every one that will materialize into a date. This works well if you're the traveling sort because you're able to be patient about how many legitimate POTS you might have in a given city. For someone working out of a single geographic area, this might be more frustrating because of the opportunity lost in a smaller pool of choices (even one big city is not as large a pool as multiple cities). The fact that I can only play when I travel is also kind of a plus in this regard, because it places limitations on how much time I would have to meet anyway.

For example, if I chat up 10 girls, and 6-7 of those have to be immediately cast aside because they insist on talking allowance up front, and then maybe ultimately I have to narrow it down to 2-3 girls, it's not a problem for me, because it might be a long time before I'm in that city again. The next time I look for POTS it will be a completely new crop of girls and I can start all over again. If I were doing this full time in a single city, just cutting loose that first crop of six girls would probably be incredibly frustrating, but thankfully its a non issue.

It's also important to point out that the hunt is as much fun to me as the sex. That's why I enjoy the challenge of stripper takeout so much. I don't get that vibe from most others here, I feel like most SDs here want as much pussy as possible as cheap as possible. I actually like the challenge, it doesn't bother me to know when I walk in a strip club I am most likely going home alone, nor does it bother me to know that I'm probably going to have to spend 20 hours on an SD site for every hour of sex I actually obtain. I hate shooting fish in a barrel and I love a challenge. I want to weed out the easy girls that sell out for a certain amount. I want to limit my choices to the real gems, the hard to get, the ones that have some genuine attraction to me. Clearly that's not going to be every girl. Some will decide right off the bat I'm not their type, yes they might do it for money anyway, but I want the less traveled roads. I want the girls who decide I'm their type right away and their interest in me transcends payment.[/QUOTE]I understand your unique approach, and yes it's not for all or even many of us. You're the Svengali of sugar. There are some lessons to be learned, and practiced. I think it is important to defer as long as possible the discussion of a specific amount. Once that # is out there, it 'anchors' negotiations. This is a well-known phenomena and applies to pricing anything from real estate to raspberries. The delay gives a greater opportunity for the POT to find something else about you she likes. A feeling of personal security she doesn't get from other guys, sexual chemistry, generosity towards children and small animals, fantastic taste in wine, whatever. That will make her agree to a lower allowance, or at least not be insulted if you start at economy. I know I have been offering too much, as I've never been turned down and had to negotiate up or let a girl walk. However, I am also a beauty snob, I have certain expectations for the attractiveness of my babies, and I don't expect them to be cheap just like I don't expect to buy a BMW cheap. Of course sometimes girls start at crazy numbers, b / c if you agree they win. My two current babies, OCHottie and OCCheer, I cut from 1/2 to 1/3 their initial ask. Note, however, that they might have believed I would be willing / able to pay that, otherwise they would never have agreed to M&G. My first, ModelMilf, made me name my number, and when she immediately agreed to it I knew I offered too much. Style-wise, I hate the pay-per-meet idea, b / c it feels too much like an escort, and that's not what I'm looking for (but other guys may not care about that). I want to see a girl repeatedly.

I'm taking OCCheer to the FC first time next week and she's a model - 10/10/? - Hollywood Guy says girls like her in Cali are getting offered thousands just to meet in their first week on the site. I broke the general rule not to give sugar to M&G, but guess what, she did meet me (and not all the other guys messaging her, and I didn't give her that, just a VS gift card) and she decided I was 'cool', so we go to the FC, and she wants PPM. She tried to anchor me with reports of a whale she dated who gave her $1 K / meet. Maybe, but she also described him unflatteringly. Needless to say, I can't afford that and offered a fraction (but w / a 'signing bonus' after the first time if we continue. I want to get into her at least once). If she's a dud in bed, well, I TOFTT, but it's only once. I like and use the HWG approach of saying that all sugar dating has multiple elements (name 5 or 6 including $ and sex) and the balance among them is different for different people. I know guys who help babies with their homework. Of course they should get a 'discount' for that.

I have a CL ad running in an inland county where sugar prices are more modest than on the coast, to try to make my limited access to cash last longer. Today I got a message w / a video attached of a hot 23 YO in lingerie. Stunning. She really knows nothing of SA and obviously hasn't been on the blogs where all the babies do what we are doing here. She started at PPM, and I pushed back through several iterations. She has already agreed to M&G and acknowledges that she 'doesn't know how this whole thing works'. I'll be all too happy to teach her how it works for me, and it might even be better for her than she imagined going in. I know it will be better for me.

BTW, I don't have my full photo on SA as it seems too risky for a married guy, but I try to get one to credible POTs early on to eliminate a lot of wasted time if she just can't see herself doing me. I mean, I'm a balding 60's. Not universally appealing, but enough to the right ones that I'm getting laid here. The babies are so phone oriented, not email oriented, I have learned about sending email messages to cell phones. I don't have my photo on my phone b / c it's not smart, and I also have to clean my photos of the EXIF data that could divulge personal info. So, they are only on my computer.

JHandcock, I got to say, my experience has been similar to yours. Most pots I meet want some sort of assurance that they are going to be taken care of financially. They can meet an older distinguished guy on Match. The purpose of SA is to find a guy who is willing to provide financial help. I've found a few exceptions to that rule, but those exceptions usually only exist in cases like HoyaSvnFgrs, or Bike Riders. What I mean here is that a pot on SA might be willing to date a guy with no discussion of allowance, but it's almost always only when the guy offers the possibility of a real relationship (I. E. Hoyasvnfgr) or long term spoiling with trips, gifts, and lavish dinners (I. E. Bikerider).

I've met more than my fair share of ladies in the bowl, and all of them either flat out refuse to do one time dates with guys who are passing through town, require a pay per date allowance that rivals the highest of high end escorts, or are utr / pros. The latter two sets will always require a discussion of allowance either before the m&g or shortly thereafter, but always before the fc.

Moreover, the pool of pots in the bowl is relatively limited. I've found that I've needed to take extended breaks (which is why I play other variants of the sugar bowl from time to time) because the pool gets stale. I think any player in the bowl realizes it's a numbers game. That being said, a semi decent looking hot baby who is on SA and doesn't require some sort of discussion of allowance before the fc is truly a rare find. A unicorn perhaps? Of course I guess some guys have all the luck and find these unicorns on a regular basis? Then again, it could just be that I lack any game.

But like you said, common sense dictates a lot of the rules we're all constrained by in the bowl. I always find it amusing when I'm asked to suspend my common sense.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;3122129]Funny I've never found a girl from one of the arrangement sites that wasn't interested in what's in it for them before meeting or at the m / g. I find that if they know up front then experience is way better than if they are worried that the guy is to leave nothing or something they feel is appropriate. That is usually the first concern especially if new that some dude is going to fuck them for nothing. Most are here for financial help so that is there main concern starting off. Not sure where your findi g these gems of urs that aren't concerned by there arrangement and aren't expecting any but kudos.

I personally don't talk allowance until the m / g is over and I explain that when they contact me. But common sense dictates that girls needing help are concerned about what your doing for them. They can get fucked for free anywhere they choose and by who they choose. Lots of younger women that civy date older dudes for free but usually you don't find them on an arrangement site.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;3122561]JHandcock, I got to say, my experience has been similar to yours. Most pots I meet want some sort of assurance that they are going to be taken care of financially. They can meet an older distinguished guy on Match. The purpose of SA is to find a guy who is willing to provide financial help. I've found a few exceptions to that rule, but those exceptions usually only exist in cases like HoyaSvnFgrs, or Bike Riders. What I mean here is that a pot on SA might be willing to date a guy with no discussion of allowance, but it's almost always only when the guy offers the possibility of a real relationship (I. E. Hoyasvnfgr) or long term spoiling with trips, gifts, and lavish dinners (I. E. Bikerider).

I've met more than my fair share of ladies in the bowl, and all of them either flat out refuse to do one time dates with guys who are passing through town, require a pay per date allowance that rivals the highest of high end escorts, or are utr / pros. The latter two sets will always require a discussion of allowance either before the m&g or shortly thereafter, but always before the fc.

Moreover, the pool of pots in the bowl is relatively limited. I've found that I've needed to take extended breaks (which is why I play other variants of the sugar bowl from time to time) because the pool gets stale. I think any player in the bowl realizes it's a numbers game. That being said, a semi decent looking hot baby who is on SA and doesn't require some sort of discussion of allowance before the fc is truly a rare find. A unicorn perhaps? Of course I guess some guys have all the luck and find these unicorns on a regular basis? Then again, it could just be that I lack any game.

But like you said, common sense dictates a lot of the rules we're all constrained by in the bowl. I always find it amusing when I'm asked to suspend my common sense.[/QUOTE]Agreed, Fish. This thread is a mix of a lot of stuff, including a brag sheet + mutual assistance / advice. I don't mind hearing about other's success and escapades, b / c sometimes there's a lesson in there for me. I also appreciate the genuine support I get (just got, in fact) from my bowl brothers on my own successes. It might be helpful, however, to limit references to those traits / strategies (like a 24" pianist, if you recall that old joke) that are unique to a particular SD.

Not from Rva, but close in Va. Thinking about sa and am gleaning info! Close to getting out of SO situation, but still like the venue of sa. Thanks for differing views! Cheers!

I notice SA has raised it's prices since I upgraded last time. I have to hand it to this guy, he's developed a gold mine.

So without going into too much detail I saw a profile with pics of a provider I have seen several times. I reached out to this person to see how different the experience would between a provider vs. SB. Well not really sure there was much of a difference. She wanted the same price as she charges as a provider. When I asked what was the difference said that we would go out on a date, dinner and anything. However she expected to go to the FC every time we met. So basically it is the same a provider but spending more money on them because of the actual date. What do you all think? You spend more money in this situation. For me part of the fun of a SB is going on dates. Sometimes the dates are just that with no visit to the FC until you work up to that point. I've had SB who spent the night and I didn't pay anything. Just curious as to what some of you think about this.

[QUOTE=Ltnric;3123205]So without going into too much detail I saw a profile with pics of a provider I have seen several times. I reached out to this person to see how different the experience would between a provider vs. SB. Well not really sure there was much of a difference. She wanted the same price as she charges as a provider. When I asked what was the difference said that we would go out on a date, dinner and anything. However she expected to go to the FC every time we met. So basically it is the same a provider but spending more money on them because of the actual date. What do you all think? You spend more money in this situation. For me part of the fun of a SB is going on dates. Sometimes the dates are just that with no visit to the FC until you work up to that point. I've had SB who spent the night and I didn't pay anything. Just curious as to what some of you think about this.[/QUOTE]All I can say is that yes, "dating" them is the key to paying little or none. Just be careful about sharing such taboo subjects on net forums, because some folks will be unable to contain their jealousy and attempt to undermine your credibility in hopes of somehow making your life as sad and miserable as theirs. They will fumble around in their own disbelief that such things can actually occur! Blashpemy! How that can be? It doesn't happen to them, therefore it cannot possibly happen to anyone else. Their only recourse is to attempt to focus their attention on YOUR life, studying you and hoping to find things wrong in your every thought, ignoring their own problems, adding underhanded references to you in Every. Single. Post (tm). And why shouldn't their behavior be a pathetic reflection of their pathetic lives? Its who they are. StalkerFanBoi behavior is deeply rooted in their own insecurity, they wear it on their sleeve. Every time the doctor backs off slightly on their psycho-meds or switches them to a new one, we can expect similarly erratic behaviors.

That said, most of the SBs I am involved with involves some form of dating. I go out clubbing and dancing with them, even though I don't necessarily want to in every case. More than once I've sat there in a club table with people 20-30 years younger than me, smiling and pretending that I wouldn't rather be somewhere else, just to be sure I was giving her the night out on the town she was looking for. I don't blink when she orders one expensive mixed drink, takes four sips of it then discards and orders something else. It's not my preference but it pays off in the sense that after she is properly fucked, she is way more focused more on how much fun she had than how much cash she's going to have in her purse later. Its a different way of sugaring than just scurrying them off to a hotel room for an hour or so of paid sex, but it pays big dividends overall in terms of the cash you give her or at least her expectations for same. And overall I do sometimes enjoy the dating aspect, aside from the occasional times when I'm forced to socialize with her friends from high school or whatever. It's not too bad at my current age because I still look a lot younger than I am. When I'm 70 that might get pretty awkward, maybe I will have outgrown this phase by then. I swear to god I think it's becoming more and more accepted by that age group for the girls to have boyfriends older than their dads. Their friends don't seem to blink an eye. Maybe they've got them too?

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3122575] It might be helpful, however, to limit references to those traits / strategies (like a 24" pianist, if you recall that old joke) that are unique to a particular SD.[/QUOTE]I think that's perhaps the most polite way of telling someone to learn to get over their obsession that I've witnessed yet on this forum.

If there's a lesson to be learned from this most recent exchange, I think it is that if someone randomly solicits opinions/advice from the readership (as Enzo did in this case), it is not up to each of us to evaluate, judge, and question the advice he receives from those who tried to contribute to the question and provide their opinion. We have to take individual experiences for what they are and put aside tunnel vision that all of our experiences should align in unison with each other. They just never will, people play the game different way and thus their mileage varies.

We are on the same page brother. Its why I don't write about my ability to grow a second Penis on demand, which generally makes the pots panties drop. After a fc session with me, I try to gift them, but they often regift my allowance back to me. I know it's a gift I've been born with, perhaps one I've mastered over the years. Other brothers can't recreate it, but I'll share my experiences, because I'm a stand up guy.

Sorry for the sarcasm. Like you FFA, I see this board as a means of sharing helpful advice, furthering the discussion of the bowl, and learning about others tactics to see if I can incorporate them into my game.

I don't mind the brag stories since I have told my fair share. Where else can we find an outlet? Not like you can talk about the 20 year old who let you cum in her ass with your brother in law or the team you're supervising on some project.

This board used to be a place where you could ask a question and get great advice. Let's get back there.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3122575]Agreed, Fish. This thread is a mix of a lot of stuff, including a brag sheet + mutual assistance / advice. I don't mind
hearing about other's success and escapades, b / c sometimes there's a lesson in there for me. I also appreciate the genuine support I get (just got, in fact) from my bowl brothers on my own successes. It might be helpful, however, to limit references to those traits / strategies (like a 24" pianist, if you recall that old joke) that are unique to a particular SD.[/QUOTE]