"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=UKnowWho; 1401524]#1. 19YO white college student from CL, living in the dorms and needing money for a car. She looks cute as hell in the pic she sent me. I've been trying to give her $ for an initial meeting in public for three weeks now, but she keeps getting close to making plans then having something come up.

#2. 20YO white college student from SA. We met this week for dinner for $.

#3. 23YO Asian girl from CL. We met later on Thursday at a bar for just. 25.[/QUOTE]Who,

Are you saying that you are giving them sugar just to meet you? I am wondering if this does not set you up, in their minds, as an easy mark, and might explain why you are having such intense sugar negotiations afterwards. I'd love to hear from some of the other brothers on this, but I have never paid a baby to have coffee or dinner with me, and don't really think it's necessary.

Are they suggesting it, or are you? As I said, I think you might be shooting yourself in the foot at the very start if you do this. Maybe you should just let these three play out as they may, and start fresh with SB#4 and see how it goes from there.

Let us know what happens,

All the best,

Scott

[QUOTE=F Scott;1401621]Are you saying that you are giving them sugar just to meet you? I am wondering if this does not set you up, in their minds, as an easy mark, and might explain why you are having such intense sugar negotiations afterwards. I'd love to hear from some of the other brothers on this, but I have never paid a baby to have coffee or dinner with me, and don't really think it's necessary.[/QUOTE]Yes. I couldn't get a good feel from reading through here if that was common or not, but I decided that would be my strategy. Whether I'll stick with it or not remains to be seen. My theory was that it will save me the hassle of having to convince the girl that I am serious about helping her, and also eliminates / reduces the amount of getting-to-know-you emailing I have to do. E. G. For #2, I just emailed her my offer on SA, she said ok, and then it was just a couple of emails back and forth to plan when and where we'd meet.

But, you're right that if it sets sugar expectations too high, it may win the battle but lose the war.

I'd be curious to hear how much "leg work" it requires to get one of these babies to meet for dinner for free. Convenience is a large part of my motivation for trying this.

[QUOTE=UKnowWho; 1401635]Yes. I couldn't get a good feel from reading through here if that was common or not, but I decided that would be my strategy. Whether I'll stick with it or not remains to be seen. My theory was that it will save me the hassle of having to convince the girl that I am serious about helping her, and also eliminates / reduces the amount of getting-to-know-you emailing I have to do. E. G. For #2, I just emailed her my offer on SA, she said ok, and then it was just a couple of emails back and forth to plan when and where we'd meet.

But, you're right that if it sets sugar expectations too high, it may win the battle but lose the war.

I'd be curious to hear how much "leg work" it requires to get one of these babies to meet for dinner for free. Convenience is a large part of my motivation for trying this.[/QUOTE]In fact, offering sugar for meets and dinner may be counter productive. You may find SB that accept the dinner sugar and go no further, whereas no sugar keeps the attention focused and motivation high, if in fact it is there at all. I don't think you need to convince these babies you are serious, they will take the chance of meeting and you dangle the carrot (at dinner or coffee) based on a future meet in the fc, and the serious babies will come thru. Maybe do as BitTig does at these first meetings, offer gas money... .20 for making the trip, but unexpectedly and not prenegotiated in any way.

Leg work; it varies. On your technique, and no amount of sugar upfront will replace this. So you need to read, read, read here from the beginning preferably, and learn from some of these masters of the sb arrangement. Literal2, Scott, Nando, Spit, BigTig, et al, can have you commanding these SB's in little time, if you follow their input from their experiences and teachings. Hell, with the kind of sugar that you are offering these sb's, maybe one of the above would broker the deal for a fee, and have you tasting the goodies for lots less than you are currently offering. Joking, of course, but what you need is expereince of how to land these sb's without dangling a wad of $$$ in advance, or so much even at time of insertion. Seems like by dangling a mega wad you are setting yourself up as a mark to be had by the sb, meaning you may get f'kd in a way you hadn't planned. Also, negotiating sugar via email could also bring some unwanted attention in the form of LE. Don't think they wouldn't love to make an example out of someone who is using SA, SD / SB, and other media dedicated to the hobby. Careful out there.

Who,

On average, I communicate, either by email or telephone, with a potential baby about three to four times before we arrange a Meet&Greet. Some are more, some are less. I like to get a sense from them if there are any issues to be aware of, and also to see if I can sniff out whether they are pros or semis, something I've decided I want to avoid.

I have said before that my ratio of meeting to bedding is about 4 to 1, but I think it is somewhat less than that, maybe even as low as 2 to 1. I believe the reason for this is that I put in the time to pre-screen.

Frankly, it is part of the fun for me, and as Droo and others have said, we should expect to have to seduce these little fish. The ones that readily come to the net when they catch site of some bennies are maybe too close to a P4P situation, at least for me. That being said, I have had things fall completely apart at the eleventh hour over the amount of sugar some of them have requested to get panties on the floor, and I'm fine with that. To my mind, it is all part of the game.

Update: I put pen to paper and made an actual tally of all the babies I have had a face-to-face with, whether I ended up fucking them or not, and the total number is 25, with an additional 6 that were no-shows. Out of the 25 that I actually met, I successfully landed 17, so my average is better than I thought. Again, I believe this is due to the upfront time that I like to take. Some contacts don't ever get to the M&G stage; they either stop communicating, or I drift away for one reason or another.
However, if I look at my total count of off-site emails from SA contacts, it is slightly over 100. Some of these I found out were moonlighting pros, but most were legit amateur babies, so looked at in terms of total contacts to babies bedded, I suck at this. Now to be fair I did not, for one reason or another, hit everyone of them with all my powers of persuasion, so maybe my average could have gone up if I had, but I'll never know. Some of them, after a few back and forths, just seemed to not be my type. Nando 1's, airheads, too immature, too needy, too odd, etc.

I guess the take-away here is that this pursuit takes time, perseverance and patience, as I have said before. Plus an ability to handle failure, but the rewards are worth it.

Good luck, and keep us in the loop.

Scott

It's an interesting concept negotiating sugar for M&G, although like others have said, it doesn't appear to be the norm here.

My MO is pretty much the same as our friend Scotty's. After reading his stats, I decided to try to remember how well / badly I had done and the results are strikingly similiar to his. I have had face to face meetings with a total of 19 women and have ended up in the FC with 12 of them. While I don't know how many I've contacted on the SB sites, it seems I get about a one third response rate from the SBs I contact.

My belief is to try to get to know them through emails or pms first so they get the impression you're not a pervert, then set up a public meeting....well unless it's obvious from the initial communications how things will turn out. Out of the 12 successes I've had, I only met one of them at a hotel initially, while with 10 of the 12 we ended up there on the first day of meeting. Others have had great success with meeting in the FC from the beginning and I can't argue with those successes. Personally, I just feel more comfortable having coffee or a drink first, but I have never given sugar for just a meeting. As many have said, there is more than one way to skin this cat of a pastime we all enjoy here.

Posted my first ad with absolutely no success. Thought I was clever but WTF. Advice guys. Here's what I posted, plagarized from one I saw online in a different area.

SERIOUS Offer. Good-looking, sane guy seeking SugarBaby. M4w. 50

Hey there, I'm a sane, attractive guy seeking a casual, mutually beneficial sd / sb relationship, with a fun young woman. We can start it slow. Exchange pics, chat, meet for a drink. If you prefer. Please send a picture, and I'll do the same. Thanks for reading.

[QUOTE=Bondo500; 1401805]Posted my first ad with absolutely no success. Thought I was clever but WTF. Advice guys. Here's what I posted, plagarized from one I saw online in a different area.

SERIOUS Offer. Good-looking, sane guy seeking SugarBaby. M4w. 50

Hey there, I'm a sane, attractive guy seeking a casual, mutually beneficial sd / sb relationship, with a fun young woman. We can start it slow. Exchange pics, chat, meet for a drink. If you prefer. Please send a picture, and I'll do the same. Thanks for reading.[/QUOTE]Same here. Try seekingarrangements. Com

On a side note, I was getting my haircut today and the girl complained 4-5 times about working too much and not getting away, hmmm.

After continuing to read post after post of SB adventures, I decided to get serious about 2 weeks ago in pursuit of this hobby. I updated my profile on SA and sent out close to 60 emails to SBs of interest within a 50 mile range of my area who had been logged on since Jan 1st. The return ratio of emails was probably less than 1 in 5, but that still provided around 10 good leads to pursue.

I've set up appointments to meet 4 potentials, but the first meeting last week looks good enough to take me out of the search for a while. She is an 18 yo AA college student that needs money for tuition (don't they all). We met first about a week ago near her college and I wasn't sure at first that we would click. After all, over 30 years difference in age is a huge barrier to startup conversations. It was awkward and I thought afterwards that there was no future there. But she txt me later that night and asked to meet again. (It probably helped that I gave her a couple of twenties for "gas money" at the first meeting).

I met her 2 nights later and she accepted my suggestion to get better acquainted in a local hotel room. We had a private dinner together (nothing fancy, just local carrying) and started to talk while sitting on the bed watching TV. As we talked, she moved closer and closer to me like old high school dating days, and before I knew it we were into deep French kissing and light petting. Needless to say, I was in heaven. Clothing was soon on the floor and I was so excited I could hardly think straight.

She was everything I expected and more, and we have been txting back and forth for the last few days now. I will keep you all posted on how this goes from here, but my hopes are that this will go LT and continue to get even better as we explore each others hot buttons.

My blond MILF that I have been crying about suddenly doesn't seem so important. Stay tuned for more to see if this goes any further, but I'm hooked for now on this 18 yo hottie.

1. Treat it like a ad on a site. Tell some things about yourself.

2. Always find a way to be humorous.

3. Include a fake pic and put in the ad "similar photo"

4. Ask them to put something in the title of their email, again think of something cute that women like.

5. Make sure to appeal to their short term and long tern goals.

6. Address some of their frustrations, in mine I put things like "you will not have to pay for gas or pick me up". Try something like "we can meet at nice public location for first date".

Overall start the wooing with your ad and remember you get out of it what you put in it.

I did 2 ads, screwed 3 from first ad and had good options in second ad.

BigTigg.

[QUOTE=Bondo500; 1401805]Posted my first ad with absolutely no success. Thought I was clever but WTF. Advice guys. Here's what I posted, plagarized from one I saw online in a different area.

SERIOUS Offer. Good-looking, sane guy seeking SugarBaby. M4w. 50

Hey there, I'm a sane, attractive guy seeking a casual, mutually beneficial sd / sb relationship, with a fun young woman. We can start it slow. Exchange pics, chat, meet for a drink. If you prefer. Please send a picture, and I'll do the same. Thanks for reading.[/QUOTE]

I also include plenty of phone time before meet and greet. I get to weed out crazies. If we make it to the m&g, it takes longer and I have invest more time, but for SBs. 100% bedding rate.

For those that follow my exploits, I meet with the chubby one tonight for the tiggabounce and the one from NJ on thursday night. That will get me to 100% for SBs that I met for m&g.

Just to mess up my numbers, have a m&g in Fri, pretty, well educated, slim, divorced aa sb in md. She is going to take a while, not sure I can keep up my 3 date rule. We'll see.

BigTigg

[QUOTE=UKnowWho;1401635].<snip> . Convenience is a large part of my motivation for trying this.[/QUOTE]Back in the day, over a decade ago, when it WAS possible to score off of AFF, I kept a file of what "prose" worked for me and when it came time to reel in a new babe all I did was copy and paste. Even with the follow-ups emails. Once you write good work, use it! Makes multiple contacts and follow-ups a snap!

Gents, thanks for such an informative and vicariously entertaining forum.

[QUOTE=Zman429; 1402257]Same here. Try seekingarrangements. Com.

On a side note, I was getting my haircut today and the girl complained 4-5 times about working too much and not getting away, hmmm.[/QUOTE]Don't forget sugardaddie dot com, most of mine are from there.

In browsing the newest profiles on SA this morning, I came across one of a young baby taken of her at work - on stage at a strip club! Maybe should have thought that one through a little bit, huh? She lists her occupation as "professional." Professional what, exactly?

[QUOTE=BigTigger;1402399]Don't forget sugardaddie dot com, most of mine are from there.[/QUOTE]Glad you've had success there, but I hate that site since you can only search at the state level. I see no point in opening communication with someone just to find out they are 5-6 hours away.

Thought of my brothers upon reading this article.

The article states that the "Sex was quite literally a killer". Man 63, dies after sex wtih 23 yr old (sounds like HYCB)

<edit delete The * College student told police that she began an affair with * over a year ago, and that he would give her money to buy school books in exchange for sex.

Police will not pursue prostitution charges, because the woman said * did not give her money that day.

Read more: [url]http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/13/oregonian-editor-63-dies-after-sex-with-23-year-old/[/url]

[QUOTE=Varoom; 1402696]Thought of my brothers upon reading this article.

The article states that the "Sex was quite literally a killer". Man 63, dies after sex with 23 yr old (sounds like HYCB)

<edit delete The * College student told police that she began an affair with * over a year ago, and that he would give her money to buy school books in exchange for sex.[/QUOTE]I'm sure I speak for us all when I say that this man is an inspiration. This is how I want to go out - between the thighs of a 23 yo HCB! (Though not for some time yet!) The article did not say, but if there is a memorial fund, I'm sending 20 bucks.

Farewell, me brother, we wish we knew ye!

Scott

[QUOTE=Varoom; 1402696] (Edit Delete) Man 63, dies after sex with 23 yr old (sounds like HYCB) (Edit Delete) The * College student told police that she began an affair with * over a year ago, and that he would give her money to buy school books in exchange for sex. Police will not pursue prostitution charges, because the woman said * did not give her money that day. Read more:

[url]http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/13/oregonian-editor-63-dies-after-sex-with-23-year-old/[/url][/QUOTE]"He" wasn't me. I'm still alive.

[QUOTE=F Scott;1402450]In browsing the newest profiles on SA this morning, I came across one of a young baby taken of her at work - on stage at a strip club! Maybe should have thought that one through a little bit, huh? She lists her occupation as "professional." Professional what, exactly?[/QUOTE]Not all strippers "work professionally", as in work as providers. I know one who's a definite 9+, and after much asking around, I can't find any evidence that she does anything but dance at the club. If I thought she was available, I'd be tempted to sacrifice a testicle for a weekend of 'no holes barred' sex with her.

[QUOTE=Varoom; 1402696]Thought of my brothers upon reading this article.

The article states that the "Sex was quite literally a killer". Man 63, dies after sex wtih 23 yr old (sounds like HYCB)

<edit delete The * College student told police that she began an affair with * over a year ago, and that he would give her money to buy school books in exchange for sex.

Police will not pursue prostitution charges, because the woman said * did not give her money that day.

Read more:

[url]http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/13/oregonian-editor-63-dies-after-sex-with-23-year-old/[/url][/QUOTE]Reminds me of that episode of "Hill Street Blues" where the old desk sergeant dies while having sex, and one of the beat cops quips "Well, at least he went out trying to plant the flag on Iwo Jima!"

Good for you brother!

[QUOTE=Varoom; 1402696]Thought of my brothers upon reading this article.

The article states that the "Sex was quite literally a killer". Man 63, dies after sex wtih 23 yr old (sounds like HYCB)

<edit delete The * College student told police that she began an affair with * over a year ago, and that he would give her money to buy school books in exchange for sex.

Police will not pursue prostitution charges, because the woman said * did not give her money that day.

Read more:

[url]http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/13/oregonian-editor-63-dies-after-sex-with-23-year-old/[/url][/QUOTE]The last paragraph of the story reads "Cxxxxxx is survived by his wife and children, who may have been surprised that this is the way his life ended. Not with a whimper, but a bang."

Right next to this on the page is an ad reading "Jesus Christ is Lord."

This is either a coincidence, or the author of this poor fellow's demise is taking credit, and sending the rest of us a message.

Here! I am 63 so it hit a little close to home. What a way to go! That story probably freaked out a lot of coed SBs in the world.

Gentlemen,

Like many others here, I'm an out-of-towner who stumbled on this thread by accident. I've read it nearly cover to cover in two days. It's like a trashy, bodice-ripping novel, and I mean that with the utmost respect and admiration.

I haven't seriously considered the SB route before; I stick mainly with pros and strip clubs. But my ATF has professed a desire to leave the state soon (and I'm inclined to believe she's serious) , so I thought I'd research the possibility of trying my hand at being an SD. The information provided here has been tremendous, and I hope I can pay it back with my own intel and insights as time progresses. Thank you, all.

Here's my back story for those interested. My largely-absent landlord takes little notice in my comings and goings and isn't the least bit interested in the family finances, so I have a lot of time on my hands. I live in Metro Detroit, so the diverse population and relatively dire economic times lend themselves to some fine prospects on both the pro and stripper fronts. I've had successful experiences with both, but I tend to try to spend most of my time with my ATF.

Ah, the ATF. After reading these threads, I realized that I more or less back-doored my way into a SD / SB relationship without even knowing it. She is a dancer-that's how we met-so I guess she's not an SB, strictly speaking. I know that she "does what she needs to do" to make money, and I am not delusional enough to believe that I'm the only guy she's inviting home. But in the year we've been seeing each other (yes, almost a year now!) , she has never once brought up money after the very first time. Not once. Taking it outside the club was her idea, on the premise that I would give her what I normally would in the club, and we could spend more time together. Since then, we've had a wonderful relationship. I guess she's what you all would call an UTR pro, in that she does not advertise. But I also would guess she's closer to SB status than most pros, in that the majority of her money comes from only a couple sources. I prefer not to dwell on those particular details.

Anyway, I digress. I took a quick spin through SA today for the first time and was intrigued. In addition to our large and diverse population, we are blessed with a number of small and medium-size universities and colleges, as well as the big one down the road in Ann Arbor. I was especially intrigued by the 19 year old student who posted: "I was a cheerleader for 8 years so I'm very open minded." Haha! I am hopeful I will someday test that theory, even if I don't exactly understand the logic.

Best wishes to all of the regular posters, and thanks again for the great reading.

Regards,

Joe

Welcome to the party Joe. It's been an eye opener for me also and am enjoying every minute. Sounds like you had a nice run going with your ATF. Hopefully it will only get better from here.

Alias

[QUOTE=JoesParty; 1403691]Gentlemen,

Like many others here, I'm an out-of-towner who stumbled on this thread by accident. I've read it nearly cover to cover in two days. It's like a trashy, bodice-ripping novel, and I mean that with the utmost respect and admiration.

I haven't seriously considered the SB route before; I stick mainly with pros and strip clubs. But my ATF has professed a desire to leave the state soon (and I'm inclined to believe she's serious) , so I thought I'd research the possibility of trying my hand at being an SD. The information provided here has been tremendous, and I hope I can pay it back with my own intel and insights as time progresses. Thank you, all.

Here's my back story for those interested. My largely-absent landlord takes little notice in my comings and goings and isn't the least bit interested in the family finances, so I have a lot of time on my hands. I live in Metro Detroit, so the diverse population and relatively dire economic times lend themselves to some fine prospects on both the pro and stripper fronts. I've had successful experiences with both, but I tend to try to spend most of my time with my ATF.

Ah, the ATF. After reading these threads, I realized that I more or less back-doored my way into a SD / SB relationship without even knowing it. She is a dancer-that's how we met-so I guess she's not an SB, strictly speaking. I know that she "does what she needs to do" to make money, and I am not delusional enough to believe that I'm the only guy she's inviting home. But in the year we've been seeing each other (yes, almost a year now!) , she has never once brought up money after the very first time. Not once. Taking it outside the club was her idea, on the premise that I would give her what I normally would in the club, and we could spend more time together. Since then, we've had a wonderful relationship. I guess she's what you all would call an UTR pro, in that she does not advertise. But I also would guess she's closer to SB status than most pros, in that the majority of her money comes from only a couple sources. I prefer not to dwell on those particular details.

Anyway, I digress. I took a quick spin through SA today for the first time and was intrigued. In addition to our large and diverse population, we are blessed with a number of small and medium-size universities and colleges, as well as the big one down the road in Ann Arbor. I was especially intrigued by the 19 year old student who posted: "I was a cheerleader for 8 years so I'm very open minded." Haha! I am hopeful I will someday test that theory, even if I don't exactly understand the logic.

Best wishes to all of the regular posters, and thanks again for the great reading.

Regards,

Joe[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the input, all. One thing that's interesting to me is that at least half a dozen girls I emailed my $-for-dinner offer read the email but didn't even reply. I wonder if they thought I was too cheap, or too desperate. Or maybe they were girls who are looking for a more loosely-defined arrangement.

I am coming from the escort side, so I am used to getting what I want with no work at all. So, I don't have the patience yet that some of you guys talk about, and don't find any enjoyment in that "chase". But, I do think I am going to at least reduce my initial offer to. 50 in hopes of not setting expectations too high for future meetings, as suggested.

Three texts on Monday to my 23YO Asian went unanswered and I thought she'd changed her mind, but then I sent one more on Tuesday morning and she wrote back. She was very worried about the law, even though we never even remotely agreed to do anything illegal. I was able to persuade her to come out, though, and we met for the agreed $$$$ for the night. On one hand, that's a lot compared to what's usually reported here, but on the other hand, I've paid that without regret for an hour with an escort before. With her, I got an hour of conversation over dinner plus two hours in bed, and it was more intimate than with an escort, so I'm happy.

She definitely has a little princess in her. We were crossing the street going to the restaurant and she said "Damn, aren't you going to hold my hand? We're crossing a street!" And she stopped at every door and waited for me to open it for her. Kinda cute, but all that could be taken too far. Anyway, I am curious to see what will happen when I try to arrange our next night for our agreed-upon $$/night rate. I hereby pledge to you guys that I will hold the line and tell her bye if she tries to shake me down for more, LOL.

So far no more from the white girl I met and unsuccessfully haggled with last week.

I had let my SA membership lapse as I was planning on focusing my attention on my current babies. Of course I got several messages from hotties from the Ukraine and Malaysia, but I also got two responses from messages I had put out awhile ago. I was intrigued enough to re-up my membership. One of them being an incredibly cute / hot young (20) college student. We've exchanged several messages back and forth and she seems to dig me. My last message to her was an invitation to lunch next week. Haven't heard back yet. My question to why'all is this: She has only one picture up. It's captivating, to say the least. As per my usual technique, I try to get them to go off site to continue our conversation via email. She basically ignored that, but the witty, intelligent banter kept me intrigued. I hope I'm wrong, but I think I might be flirting with some lonely dude! Think about it for a second, anyone can create a profile on the site. When I joined it was as simple as a mouse click stating I was a male! We'll see. Like I said, I really really hope I'm wrong!

The other response I got was from someone local. (I don't like to fish in my own pond, too close to home. My profession puts me in close contact with exactly the type of young lady who might be seeking this.) I sent her a brief message saying hello and that I was interested in getting to know her. The pictures she has public just show her incredibly tight young body. I didn't give her access to my pictures, but told her to message me and would send her a pic. She granted me entry to her private pics and, yep you guessed it, I recognized her. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. It gets better though! About a year ago I went to a bar near my place after being out with some friends. It was dead there. While drinking my beer I couldn't help but make eye contact with the bartender. Young, blonde, sexy and incredibly tight. The perfect little package. She notices me giving her looks. Walks down to my end, stops halfway and grabs a bottle of Tequila and two shot glasses. Mosies over and looks me dead in the eye and introduces herself. Pours us each a shot and we start to talk. It was late, closing time was near. She told me I should stick around and wait in the back of the bar. After shooing the other patrons out she walks back to me lighting up a joint. We sit on the couch smoking and proceed to have an incredible make out session (that I still think about!). It's getting late, so I have to pull myself from her. Reluctantly. I never went back. Too close to home. I'm sure you see where this is going. Same girl. How would why'all proceed with this?

Nite.

[QUOTE=Droo89; 1403922]Reluctantly. I never went back. Too close to home. I'm sure you see where this is going. Same girl. How would why'all proceed with this?

Nite.[/QUOTE]Well I would just take her up on it. Tell her directly you never wanted a local one but for her you make the exception (I prefer local ones)

I have been doing the sb route for a few years now, being involved in a very popular restaurant it does has it advantages. I am often seen with young ones, and the staff has been instructed if they try to get favors because they are my 'friend' they get the reply "Oh since you area his friend you should know that we need $ so you will help us by paying double" will shut them up immediately. At the same time it helps with situations where they know you. Think of my surprise to be landing in Europe, leaving the plane and hearing your name shout by a spinner while walking to customs with your wife. Just a hello. And to the wife." I don't know, must be from the restaurant".

So my 18 yo AA babe is startimg to worry me. First off, my second meeting with her had a few issues that made the sex not nearly as good as expected. I think I could work on that because the basics are there, but it was a little disappointing. She seems to love receiving DATY, which is good because I love that, but is not very giving in return. If there were no other red lights, I could work through that.

But after 3 meetings (twice in the FC) , she is getting way too possessive for my tastes. Asking questions about why I can't see her at this or that time, seems jealous of my wife, and is pretty demanding about wanting to get together more often. I told her early on that once a week was about all I could fit in the schedule. She seems to have forgotten that.

Already has me wondering if I need these extra demands in my life and that's not good.

From the experts here perspective, do I cut my losses now and run like hell or try to work through the arrangement. She is 18, probably a 7-8 in overall looks, and has some real potential, just not sure of what I'm getting into.

Advice?

Alias.

[QUOTE=AliasSM; 1402341]She was everything I expected and more, and we have been txting back and forth for the last few days now. I will keep you all posted on how this goes from here, but my hopes are that this will go LT and continue to get even better as we explore each others hot buttons.

Hottie.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Droo89; 1403922]I hope I'm wrong, but I think I might be flirting with some lonely dude!

Too close to home. I'm sure you see where this is going. Same girl. How would y'all proceed with this?[/QUOTE]Hey Droo!

I think you may be over-analyzing the first situation just a bit. Some of these babies just don't want to move off-site, for whatever reason. I think the site tells them all kinds of horror stories to keep them, and thus us, on SA, but it now reminds me of a very strange situation I had once back in the early days of my SB pursuits.

I met a young baby for coffee, and she was telling me that the site administrators had told her to use outside search tools to check up on us to make sure we weren't criminals or registered sex offenders. Sound advice, I would think, but here's the strange part : she knew my SA "name"! I didn't think much about it at the time, since I assumed it was somewhere on my profile, but later on when I checked, it wasn't. The only way she could have gotten a hold of it is if the site admin had given it to her. Luckily, it was not my real name, or even close, but WTF! That could have been a true train wreck. A further reason for staying hidden.

As for your hot bartender, I have one word - NO! It seems eerily like my obsession with my former employee. The potential for a catastrophe is just too great. My infatuation with that dangerous scenario is what caused me to take a "vacation", if you recall. Forget about this particular little fish, and concentrate on the babies down my way. There are more than enough to go around! All she would need to do is see your picture in the paper, and you are cooked. I'm guessing bartenders don't make a ton of money, but babies who know our true identities sure can!

On other topics:

Who,

Congrats on your little Asian success! You are on your way, my man. As for her princess-like behavior, who cares if it gets you access to the goodies? Open a few doors if that's what it takes. Keep up the good work, and keep up informed.

Joe,

May I welcome you as well. I think a lot of us just stumbled on this thread and had our worlds rocked by it. I know that was the case for me. Keep at it, and feel free to post or pm any questions you have to any one of us. I believe you will find this a sharing and thoughtful brotherhood.

As for me, I am holed up at work the rest of this week and next. Polo has sent me a few dirty texts, just to keep her foremost in Scottie's mind, and ATF has been in almost daily contact as well. I am feeling the distance between us growing smaller and smaller. I hate being such a drama queen about this, but if I don't have to let her go, why should I?

As always, keep up the good work, my brothers, and welcome to one and all!

Scott

glad to see so much activity of late. there are a lot of sds supporting the sugar economy.

re: joesparty congratulations on a successful sd / sb arrangement. you are involved in one without even knowing it.

re: uknowwho

there is a new site started by brandon wade of sa dot com where you participate in an auction for the privilege of going on a date with the girl pictured. the average cost is $25 but can go to $thousands. otherwise i would not do it on your own. why act desperate and set the bar at all. make sure your profile is optimal and your pictures are attractive. as for your asian, we know she can be had, you just need to determine how low she will go. or more appropos, determine how much she is worth to you and make it sound great! a selling point for her is that you are offering your price regularly instead of a one time deal. some sbs would take $800 / month ($200 / week x 4 weeks)

re: droo.

some sbs are playing around and not serious, or (gasp!) might be **** girls just playing at being grownups. i had this identical situation and spent an entire day talking dirty back and forth with a college sophmore who talked about meeting and doing all sorts of great things to my turgid member. but in the end she flaked never to beheard from again.

re: too close to home

explore this girl carefully, she sounds like a gem for you. of course, anyone who knows who you are is a potential source of blackmail. ultimately, any sb you see for over several months will end op knowing most of your i'd info because you will trust and tell her.

re: alias

this sb is 18 and as such is very immature. my initial inclination is to drop her asap. but my little head is talking now and you should have a heart to heart with her explaining the facts of sugar life. if she is unwilling to adhere to the plan that you have laid out end it.

[quote=hernando; 1404188]glad to see so much activity of late. there are a lot of sds supporting the sugar economy.

re: uknowwho

there is a new site started by brandon wade of sa dot com where you participate in an auction for the privilege of going on a date with the girl pictured. the average cost is $25 but can go to $thousands. otherwise i would not do it on your own. why act desperate and set the bar at all. make sure your profile is optimal and your pictures are attractive. as for your asian, we know she can be had, you just need to determine how low she will go. or more appropos, determine how much she is worth to you and make it sound great! a selling point for her is that you are offering your price regularly instead of a one time deal. some sbs would take $800 / month ($200 / week x 4 weeks)

re: droo.

some sbs are playing around and not serious, or (gasp!) might be **** girls just playing at being grownups. i had this identical situation and spent an entire day talking dirty back and forth with a college sophmore who talked about meeting and doing all sorts of great things to my turgid member. but in the end she flaked never to beheard from again.

re: too close to home

explore this girl carefully, she sounds like a gem for you. of course, anyone who knows who you are is a potential source of blackmail. ultimately, any sb you see for over several months will end op knowing most of your i'd info because you will trust and tell her.

re: alias

this sb is 18 and as such is very immature. my initial inclination is to drop her asap. but my little head is talking now and you should have a heart to heart with her explaining the facts of sugar life. if she is unwilling to adhere to the plan that you have laid out end it.[/quote]gentlemen,

once again, our brother nando comes through with succinct, sage advice, with, in my opinion, one exception, his advice to droo.

having seriously contemplated trying to fuck my ex-employee who had a profile on sa, and thinking i could get away with it somehow and not have it come back to bite me, was sheer delirium and hubris of the highest order. this bartender thing has end of the world written all over it. your one-time hot makeout session is easily deniable if she ever were to make contact with the so, but three or four separate incidents, detailed, with dates, and possibly a description of that adorable tattoo you have where no one should be able to see it if you had your pants on, well, that gets a little more difficult to explain away. leave that memory right where it is, and concentrate on other little fish.

sorry nando, it's just how i see this one. it's so easy to believe we are untouchable, until we're not.

to all the newbies, great work. keep it up, and don't forget to write.

scott

I must be a fast learner or incredibly lucky, or both. As noted in my first post yesterday, I spent hours reading here over the last few days. Last night, I created a bare-bones profile on SA and signed up for one month. I studied the site carefully and sent polite messages to a number of attractive ladies. Imagine my surprise when I had three replies within the hour! We traded emails and pics and were quickly off to the races. My responses are now up to seven, including one polite "no, thank you."

I have my first interview with a 27 year old coed tonight. Most likely just drinks. I have two other serious prospects on the line, and one more who is obviously semi-pro. (Her photos are from a strip club dressing room.)

I don't mean to boast here; could this just be beginner's luck? How do I keep my wits while evaluating so many beautify women? It is certain that there may not be the right chemistry with some, while others may price themselves out of the market, so to speak. And I'm sure I've jinxed myself by talking before closing the deal.

But do any of the experts have advice?

[QUOTE=JoesParty; 1404255]I must be a fast learner or incredibly lucky, or both. As noted in my first post yesterday, I spent hours reading here over the last few days. Last night, I created a bare-bones profile on SA and signed up for one month. I studied the site carefully and sent polite messages to a number of attractive ladies. Imagine my surprise when I had three replies within the hour! We traded emails and pics and were quickly off to the races. My responses are now up to seven, including one polite "no, thank you."

I have my first interview with a 27 year old coed tonight. Most likely just drinks. I have two other serious prospects on the line, and one more who is obviously semi-pro. (Her photos are from a strip club dressing room.)

I don't mean to boast here; could this just be beginner's luck? How do I keep my wits while evaluating so many beautify women? It is certain that there may not be the right chemistry with some, while others may price themselves out of the market, so to speak. And I'm sure I've jinxed myself by talking before closing the deal.

But do any of the experts have advice?[/QUOTE]Joe,

I know just how you feel. A week ago, you didn't know this world existed, right? And now it's like, holy shit! There are thousands of HYBs out there, and they all want to get fucked! Where will I find the time?

My advice to you is take it slow, work on your game, try and get the first one out of the way as soon as possible, but don't count your panties before they're on the floor. As we all can attest, there are many ways a seemingly perfect situation can go south.

As for beginner's luck, there is certainly some of that. SA lets you search on newest profiles, so I assume there is a way that the babies can see if you are fresh to the scene or not. That has to be as attractive to them as it is to us.

A mistake I made when starting out was to send out dozens of contacts a week, most of which produced a reply. I just could not follow up on all of them, and so I know I let some prime action slip through my fingers just because I got carried away. This is kind of my personality, I will admit. I tend to go all in or not at all.

You also did your homework on the thread, and so benefited from the accumulated successes and failures detailed here. All we ask is that you repay in kind.

Good luck with your M&G tonight. Come prepared in case things move forward rapidly. It has been known to happen.

All the best,

Scott

Thank you all for the advice. I was already leaning towards NOT going any further with the bartender. I just had to hear a voice of reason. Too much to lose. Thank you my friend.

Gentlemen,

Is there something in the air today? First all these fine posts, then this:

After I logged off here a little earlier, I turned on the Batphone just to see if anyone had called, and I see a text from Polo: call me as soon as you get this! I'm pretty sure it can't be [I]really[/I] bad news, but remember there is a husband involved, and we know he drinks, so maybe he hit her, and she took the kids and left, and is now waiting for me to rescue her. Who knows, right?

So it is with a little trepidation that I dial her number, which is slightly exacerbated when she answers in a whisper. I needn't have feared, however. It turns out she is in her bedroom with the door shut and she has something she wants me to listen to, but the kids are home from school so she has to keep it a little quiet. I'm thinking more straight forward dirty talking, but no, instead I hear: "I have my hand between my legs and I'm thinking of you fucking me"! Holy shit, this is hot! Little Scottie and I are boring, middle-aged white dudes. These sorts of things just don't happen to us.

So I'm listening, and I hear her breathing and sighing, and that wonderful rhythmic squishing sound that is unmistakable, and all the while she is whispering a narrative: "those are my fingers in my pussy","this is me licking them", that sort of thing. Now remember, I'm at work, at my desk, with the office all around me, so all I can do at this point is blush and listen. It goes on like this for a few minutes, then I hear her cute little grunt / gasps, and I know she's cum.

Fuck!! Scottie is pounding to be let out, I'm sweating, and all I can say to her out loud is,"well, thanks for that information." Needless to say, I hit the bathroom immediately after I hung up. I always knew those Catholic girls were dirty, dirty little ponies, but as I say, this was a first for me. It may just be that she never had anyone to behave like this with before, or this could be normal for her, but believe me, I'm not complaining! I can't wait until the end of next week, when we have Round Three on the chalk board. She mentioned something about being a very bad girl, so I am guessing there will be some reprimanding to be done. Life, my brothers, is more than good.

Peace,

Scott

Hey guys,

First Kudos to F SCOTT! Thank you for getting me into the game!

Second I actually need your help! I am new to the game, but given that I am a newbie I will be more descriptive.

So I have been messaging a couple of babies,

1. Heather, a 24yr old sexy blonde freak, she is looking for some wild action and sugar. However, I am not sure how much sugar to offer her I don't even know where to begin the negotiations so here is where I need the help of the more experienced folks here. She has never been a baby before, but I have seen some of her freaky side. She does like to.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]168608[/ATTACH]

Go out and dance.

2. Mari, she's a 22 5'5 black lady, cute, she likes to go out and dance, fun girl. She has been a sugar baby before, so she is expecting sugar. She told me straight up 1-2k allowance I was like ok. Not sure if this is okay or not, I would offer her 1k but I would like to start a pay as you go at first. I am not sure if there is a try before you buy or not but I would sort of like that! Like a lease with an option to buy!

3. Then there's Demi, blonde new to being a sugar baby, she's 19, Super smoking hot sexy body, for me my favorite baby prospect. She's 5'2 petite and cute. She is looking for someone to help her with her bills and have fun. She is busy with school and her daughter, so she might be a good part time. I wonder if the best approach would be to offer her a pay as we go deal? What do you guys think. Demi has never been a sugar baby, and the problem I have is she is 19 so it might be hard to go to 21+ clubs and fun. What would be a good ball park number?

4. Jennifer, is a 25yr old redhead, she is cute, and have been a sugar baby before. She also has a kid, but oh well. We haven't discussed sugar but I am not sure how much she would want. Any ball park number from you guys would help.

5. Beth, She is 29 a little older. 5'2 as well. She has lovely green eyes and a hard rock body for having 2 kids. She certainly wants a sugar daddy / baby arrangement as she wants to be spoiled. We are in the process of discussing how she wants to get spoiled. But I am not sure. She however doesn't dance, and go out much. Has also never been a sugar baby before so I am not sure if that's a plus or a minus for me, as her expectations could be outrageous!

Anyway, any advice for this rookie will be appreciated! I will post pictures so that you guys can relate the ladies and make your opinions. I'll take all the help I can get, I am new to the game and I think I am inexperienced enough to make rookie mistakes. I would like to know what you guys think and how to be successful! .

I do have a question for all of you, how can you tell that you are her only sugar daddy? And she is not an escort / pro instead of a sugar baby?

Our advice will be greatly appreciated.

I'll report back what happens! I have pictures I can share with Sr. Members only.

K

[QUOTE=F Scott;1404271]A mistake I made when starting out was to send out dozens of contacts a week, most of which produced a reply. I just could not follow up on all of them, and so I know I let some prime action slip through my fingers just because I got carried away. This is kind of my personality, I will admit. I tend to go all in or not at all.[/QUOTE]This is precisely the mistake I made. I sent out 20+ e-mails. Not that I am complaining about the volume of replies, but I will have to let some of them go, which pains me a bit.

Tonight's first M&G went well. Drinks only, as I'm a little shy, and this is my first SA girl. She's late 20s, no kids, and has a bangin' body. Her life is a bit screwed up; a few exes here and there, a weird family, and no real career future as far as I can tell. But, no discernible drug issues, no kids, and no overt weirdness. So she passed round one, and depending on how things go next week with future M&Gs, she may be a keeper, if only to see those beautiful C cups I was trying not to stare at all night. She also was happy with my paying for drinks only (no sugar tonight) and said she does not like explicit discussions regarding future sugar amounts. We'll see, won't we?

My question for the experts, one which admittedly has been discussed at length in these threads, but which, in my opinion, can never be fully understood: How do I close the deal and get a girl to the FC? I know, there are as many answers as there are different girls. But, keep in mind: I'm shy, reserved, and have never been good at this in my civilian life. I assume I will have to make the first move, and I also assume that if she is not interested, she'll make no bones about telling me so. But what do you suggest? Have a room booked? Or suggest we go somewhere private? Or suggest we meet directly at the hotel?

[QUOTE=JoesParty;1404509]I assume I will have to make the first move, and I also assume that if she is not interested, she'll make no bones about telling me so. But what do you suggest? Have a room booked? Or suggest we go somewhere private? Or suggest we meet directly at the hotel?[/QUOTE]Actually I never make the first move. Lead up to it but hold back let them make the final step. So much more fun sipping a drink and holding back a bit and she will say "I want to fuck"

Play the movie Hitch, watch the scene where Will Smith instructs the guy to get close for the first kiss, but hold back and she will do it.

I do also use " You do understand that if you don't let me pay for drinks and dinner I will have to spank you " etc.

Works for me like a charm always. I understand "willy" (Man's best friend / built in toy) has his own mind, but if he is patient she will give more willingly.

I'm no expert, but have had some success with SA. So here is my $.02.

You have to make the first move, they are not going to drag you back to their cave and jump you. If they seem "in to you" then I'd come right out and suggest that the next time you meet you meet at a hotel. If she says yes, you are in, if she "wants to get to know you better" then your call as to where to take it from there. If she says "no" then may want to consider cutting bait.

My tactic has been to a) meet in public so they get comfortable with you and figure you are not an axe murderer be) once they seem comfy, suggest you sit in talk in the car or meet somewhere a little more private (maybe a park. Have gotten two nice bjs in a park in the last month) see) make some kind of move (e. G. Put your hand on her leg, try to kiss her etc.). IF she is up for see, she's probably up for anything.

So at some level its just like high school, get them comfortable, then move in for the kill, so to speak. But you have to man up and make the first move, my friend.

Hope that helps.

And I think I screwed up how this posted. So here is the question below:

My question for the experts, one which admittedly has been discussed at length in these threads, but which, in my opinion, can never be fully understood: How do I close the deal and get a girl to the FC? I know, there are as many answers as there are different girls. But, keep in mind: I'm shy, reserved, and have never been good at this in my civilian life. I assume I will have to make the first move, and I also assume that if she is not interested, she'll make no bones about telling me so. But what do you suggest? Have a room booked? Or suggest we go somewhere private? Or suggest we meet directly at the hotel?[/QUOTE]

Welcome to the Sugar Bowl LoKirk! It sounds like you have a lot on the line already. I have three questions for you. What age range are you, are you married, and what site are you getting these pots from? You mention going out dancing with several of these girls so I assume you are single. Married guys have to be more careful dating in public preferring to go for intimate dinner and drinks before entering the FC.

All these questions have been discussed at length but I will hit a few high spots. PTP vs allowance essentially differs experienced SBs from newbies or hookers. I highly recommend PTP since your pay is linked to their productivity. I have a long term SB (naif) who I pay as we go and she is fine with that. Many SBs think they are prostituting themselves if they accept PTP rather than an allowance but in the end it's all the same, isn't it? If you pay an allowance then you will not going to get your moneys worth and will pay more / meeting. The per meeting rate is based on the local escort rates which in this area of mid Va is $2-300 / hr. A regular SB meeting should be for an extended period (multihours or all night) and not the one hour. Experienced SBs will want a monthly allowance. $ 1-2000 / month is not unreasonable depending on how often you see her. If you see her once / week then $1000 is fair. Keep in mind you will be spending more money for dinner, drinks, club fees, gifts, flowers, hotel rooms, so it adds up. Monogamy is important to some of us. How do you tell? First ask her if she is willing to be. And ask if she has an IRL boyfriend. If other men are in the mix then you are open to more drama and a higher risk of stds. I prefer monogamy. A hooker will be focused on pay by the hour. If she argues that a PTP amount is only one hour she is a pro. If she already has a room then she is a pro. Assume she will be lying to you until you prove otherwise.

You need to make the first move. Ask her if she would like to have an arrangement with you. If yes then suggest that you get a notel and spend some time together. Remember, they are ther for your money and know that you are there for sex, so at least that part of dating is already a given. Skirting the issue is just a time waster. Bring it up, seal the deal, and hurry off to the FC. Good luck! Nando

As I take my first steps into the SD world, I had a thought. Has anyone here ever converted a pro relationship into a SB relationship? I see many obstacles, though I also see many benefits. I am a semi-regular of a local pro. We have good chemistry and seem to enjoy each other's company. Why do the legwork to find a true SB when I seem to have a potential candidate right under my nose?

I have no problem with P4P, and I don't even care if she maintains her pro status. But what I'd like to do is move her away from the "by the hour" mentality. Easier said than done, I realize, and I can't exactly say this to her as bluntly as I can here.

I would like to spend more time with her and would continue to be as generous as I am able. I think it would be a benefit to us both, as she would have more or less guaranteed allowances, and I would have more or less guaranteed, um, access.

Perhaps this is asking too much of her. After all, I do know she is fairly popular in this area. But I also know that popular is a relative term, and she's probably still living paycheck to paycheck. Can it be done? More important, has it been done?

As always, thank you for your insights.

Regards,

Joe