"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=BigTigger;3027550]Found a 19 year old looking for her first SA experience. She was home waiting to move back to the dorms for her 2nd year in college. Mommy and Daddy left for work and I picked her up to put in some work. She just wanted some online shopping money. So gift cards and no cash. She suggested FC for the first meeting. We had breakfast and got to the TiggaBounce. I've had a few 21 and below. She was bar far one of the best. The intimacy came natural for her. Multiple positions two rounds and two pops for me 5 Os for her and some great ego boosting compliments. Amazing body, 5'1, small cute butt and perfect perky C-cups. $50 Retail Store gift card, breakfast and got the room for free on points. It was a great morning.

So I've by far had my most luck on SA.

BigTigg.[/QUOTE]BT, you seem to have the market in low cost sugaring. But, the babies who are on sugar sites are mostly looking for -well-sugar. It is good to know that there are cute young things looking for a good time, roll in the hay, and a gift card to Walmart, but it is important for the readership to know that this is not the norm. BT must be extremely talented at screening for this type of girl, or immensely appealing. Most of us have to pay the price to take the prize.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;3028619]BT, you seem to have the market in low cost sugaring. But, the babies who are on sugar sites are mostly looking for -well-sugar. It is good to know that there are cute young things looking for a good time, roll in the hay, and a gift card to Walmart, but it is important for the readership to know that this is not the norm. BT must be extremely talented at screening for this type of girl, or immensely appealing. Most of us have to pay the price to take the prize.[/QUOTE]You are correct, this one was really not the norm. I was very surprised at all of this. We did agree on $100 per meet going forward. The first date was supposed to be meet-and-greet, but it had been a while for her so I got real lucky. She was awfully happy with the gift card and I was still a little confused when I left, it just seemed to be a bit too good to be true. We have texted since then and things seem normal, not mention of more sugar. I will get two over night dates the next time I visit for $200. Still a great deal for me and for a college kid with all her expenses paid, she feels like it's a great deal. Spending money and good sex.

[QUOTE=BigTigger;3027520][URL]https://www.stdcheck.com/[/URL]

You don't have to show I'd, you can use an alias. Results are delivered online using a code.

BigTigg.[/QUOTE]I have used both planned parenthood and my local county (NC) health dept. In both instances I told them I would pay out of pocket. Interestingly the two times I have used the county health dept for test and treat, they did not charge me either time. I have used Planned parenthood in two different cities (chapel hill and durham), sometimes as a walkin and sometimes with an appt. Their wait time can be long, bring something to read.

I have also used the online service operators that will schedule an appt at lab corp but they are pricey.

[QUOTE=BigTigger;3027520][URL]https://www.stdcheck.com/[/URL]

You don't have to show I'd, you can use an alias. Results are delivered online using a code.

BigTigg.[/QUOTE]If you have Patient First in your area they will do it totally anonymously. They call you with the results and ask you if your alone and can talk before they say anything. There are two tests they do. I don't remember the cost.

[QUOTE=StormyTuesday;3029496]I have used both planned parenthood and my local county (NC) health dept. In both instances I told them I would pay out of pocket. Interestingly the two times I have used the county health dept for test and treat, they did not charge me either time. I have used Planned parenthood in two different cities (chapel hill and durham), sometimes as a walkin and sometimes with an appt. Their wait time can be long, bring something to read.

I have also used the online service operators that will schedule an appt at lab corp but they are pricey.[/QUOTE]One issue that arises is that some Planned Parenthood clinics evidently do not offer HSV testing. That is allegedly the case in CA according to Hollywood Guy. For my money, testing vs. The incurable viral diseases (HSV, HIV, even hepatitis, though many have been immunized and there is the pricey new HepC treatment) is the key. Needing an antibiotic for a bacterial disease is a problem (especially for married SDs), but you *really* don't want the gift that keeps on giving.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;3028572]Pretty well thought out and a good profile does wonders when they actually do get around to reading it. Most that contact me I have to ask if they read the profile, redirect them back to profile and then if still interested to get back to me. Now both can really go overboard with the profile and once you do a m / g you find someone else did the profile for them because the person sitting across from ya couldn't have crafted it or nowhere resembles that person. Now I'm dead set against gifts at the m / g. Now if she had to travel a distance I find gas money ok. But a gift for showing is a no no. Now if your wanting to impress then accept their arrangement request without haggling if its in the budget. The arrangement is the most important to these girls, then personality. Had numerous girls tell me they stay in a lt arrangement because the money was good. That was the only reason they hung in there so long. Your right about thedic pic or treating them like a hooker. From reading the various sd threads you can see most have no idea as to what a true sb is so they treat them like a hooker. Anway pretty good advice with just some of my thoughts.[/QUOTE]You actually show a great difference in our approaches. I'm not looking for the women who want an arrangement. I'm looking for those who want what feels like a discreet affair with a married man with some financial help along the way. Your target audience would not work for me because the funds I offer are not enough for anyone to stay, LOL. So I probably should have had that caveat at the beginning of my post. Also, I target African American women and Latinas. As stated before, the nature of supply and demand for those two groups, keeps my expenses low. The good thing is that in many cases I don't have to sacrifice looks or body, I just have to be more emotionally involved and get them more emotionally involved. I will say this, I've been surprised at the number who were willing to deal with me knowing I had others in the stable. Sometimes honesty is a big turn on for them.

So fellow hobbyist, make sure to modify our suggestions based on who you are, what you bring to the table and what you are targeting. For the arrangement folks, funds and gifts at the M&G may have little effect. However for those who want to strongly believe they are not selling the goodies, the gifts and cash works wonders.

BigTigg.

[QUOTE=BigTigger;3030191]You actually show a great difference in our approaches. I'm not looking for the women who want an arrangement. I'm looking for those who want what feels like a discreet affair with a married man with some financial help along the way. Your target audience would not work for me because the funds I offer are not enough for anyone to stay, LOL. So I probably should have had that caveat at the beginning of my post. Also, I target African American women and Latinas. As stated before, the nature of supply and demand for those two groups, keeps my expenses low. The good thing is that in many cases I don't have to sacrifice looks or body, I just have to be more emotionally involved and get them more emotionally involved. I will say this, I've been surprised at the number who were willing to deal with me knowing I had others in the stable. Sometimes honesty is a big turn on for them.

So fellow hobbyist, make sure to modify our suggestions based on who you are, what you bring to the table and what you are targeting. For the arrangement folks, funds and gifts at the M&G may have little effect. However for those who want to strongly believe they are not selling the goodies, the gifts and cash works wonders.

BigTigg.[/QUOTE]K you lost me. Your first paragraph has me confused. If your providing financial aid that is an arrangement. Now if your just dating them and randomly give her assistance without her asking for anything that to me is civy dating. If that's the case then good for you but how does that fall under a sb thread? I know everyone here has a different definition of a sb but if I'm dating a girl and randomly helping with $$ without her asking I would classify her as my gf, not a sb.

It's been said many times before. Many of us have very different definitions of SB's. It seems like Tigg looks for more of a cross between a girlfriend and a misstress that he provides some financial help, but that is not the corner stone of the relationship. Many women are attracted to older more mature mean that treat them better than they have been treated by many younger guys.

You may argue that is not an SB, but I'm not sure the definition is that clean cut. I've had several long term SB'S that became girlfriends eventually. It does make the ultimate break up more painful, but I've had other SB arrangements ends with as much, if not more, drama.

(in their words).

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;3030253]K you lost me. Your first paragraph has me confused. If your providing financial aid that is an arrangement. Now if your just dating them and randomly give her assistance without her asking for anything that to me is civy dating. If that's the case then good for you but how does that fall under a sb thread? I know everyone here has a different definition of a sb but if I'm dating a girl and randomly helping with $$ without her asking I would classify her as my gf, not a sb.[/QUOTE].

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;3030253]K you lost me. Your first paragraph has me confused. If your providing financial aid that is an arrangement. Now if your just dating them and randomly give her assistance without her asking for anything that to me is civy dating. If that's the case then good for you but how does that fall under a sb thread? I know everyone here has a different definition of a sb but if I'm dating a girl and randomly helping with $$ without her asking I would classify her as my gf, not a sb.[/QUOTE]Great point, I actually do guarantee a minimum amount per month. The key is these want it to feel like it's random help, so in their mind it doesn't feel like an arrangement when we all know it is.

BigTigg.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;3030568]It's been said many times before. Many of us have very different definitions of SB's. It seems like Tigg looks for more of a cross between a girlfriend and a misstress that he provides some financial help, but that is not the corner stone of the relationship. Many women are attracted to older more mature mean that treat them better than they have been treated by many younger guys.

You may argue that is not an SB, but I'm not sure the definition is that clean cut. I've had several long term SB'S that became girlfriends eventually. It does make the ultimate break up more painful, but I've had other SB arrangements ends with as much, if not more, drama.

(in their words).

.[/QUOTE]A sb and gf definition is pretty clear for me. A sb there is an arrangement in place that both have agreed to. A gf is someone you date without her expecting financial help. Now if you want to help out randomly that tickles her to death and much appreciated. If you have a sb that you think is a gf take the sugar away. If she is still there you got a gf and congrads. Most are going to be gone. Now the girls on the sites are there for financial help 99% of them. That why we are members because of variety and ease of finding them. For me to try and cultivate a sb from a real life situation is just to time consuming, much easier and faster finding a gf.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;3030253]K you lost me. Your first paragraph has me confused. If your providing financial aid that is an arrangement. Now if your just dating them and randomly give her assistance without her asking for anything that to me is civy dating. If that's the case then good for you but how does that fall under a sb thread? I know everyone here has a different definition of a sb but if I'm dating a girl and randomly helping with $$ without her asking I would classify her as my gf, not a sb.[/QUOTE]If the definition of civy dating is to give them sugar without a pre-agreed on amount, almost all my SBs are civy because I never tell them how much I will giving them. When I use the term civy dating here in this thread, I'm talking about girls I either never paid anything other than normal dating expenses like buying her drinks, or maybe I did randomly give her money here or there but there was no expectation that this was what attracted her to me. To me a civy girl is someone I find through a regular dating website or just meet her at a bar / club etc.

My typical SB approach is no pre-agreed on amount, then I gift them on each date. They know they are getting the gift and that this was the whole purpose of us meeting on an SD site, but at least on the first date, they are either putting a certain amount of trust in me that I just won't hand them twenty bucks or something insulting, or maybe they are just fucking me the first time purely on appeal. Yes there are those who insist on discussing money up front but I usually go dark on those before we ever get started. If they aren't attracted to me without nagging for money before I've ever met them then I'm not interested, plenty of other girls out there.

But even my typical SB wouldn't be considered "random" payment. It's expected on their part and should be. Random would be if I'm dating someone a couple of months and she runs into a hardship like car repair or something and I pick up the tab.

The exception to all this is stripper takeout, where its all about negotiating up front (they are making too much money at the club to take time off work to fuck a random stranger so its not happening for free, at least not if you want it on the same night they're working). But I don't consider stripper takeout to be SB or civy (although either one can end up that way).

To me the term civy implies no money expectation at all. I guess we all have our own definitions.

The basis of marriage is sex and financial support. A marriage is not "official" until consummated and sex outside the marriage is grounds for divorce. Most women still expect financial support in a marriage and financial problems is also one of the primary causes of divorce. Many women look to date a man that has resources to treat them well and would be date them if they didn't. You could argue they are SB's as well.

My point is don't judge another man's definition of an SB. I understand by your your definition you would consider them an SB. I have stopped payment with SB'S and they have continued to see me. I would help them at times, just like I would any woman I was dating who truly needed, but didn't expect, help.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;3030758]A sb and gf definition is pretty clear for me. A sb there is an arrangement in place that both have agreed to. A gf is someone you date without her expecting financial help. Now if you want to help out randomly that tickles her to death and much appreciated. If you have a sb that you think is a gf take the sugar away. If she is still there you got a gf and congrads. Most are going to be gone. Now the girls on the sites are there for financial help 99% of them. That why we are members because of variety and ease of finding them. For me to try and cultivate a sb from a real life situation is just to time consuming, much easier and faster finding a gf.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;3030902]The basis of marriage is sex and financial support. A marriage is not "official" until consummated and sex outside the marriage is grounds for divorce. Most women still expect financial support in a marriage and financial problems is also one of the primary causes of divorce. [/QUOTE]Not only this, but lack of sex is generally considered legal grounds for divorce (without getting into individual states interpretation). Therefore, traditional marriage in itself is an arrangement by definition, and one could say that money cannot be the distinguishing factor when comparing an SB to a girlfriend to a traditional wife, because so many wives expect financial support as part of that arrangement.

In fact, because infidelity is also grounds for divorce, a cheating wife is technically closer to being a hooker than an SB who accepts an allowance from an SD but is exclusive to him, it's just that she's usually bleeding the hubby for financial support while whoring around with someone else and violating terms of the arrangement.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;3030805]If the definition of civy dating is to give them sugar without a pre-agreed on amount, almost all my SBs are civy because I never tell them how much I will giving them. When I use the term civy dating here in this thread, I'm talking about girls I either never paid anything other than normal dating expenses like buying her drinks, or maybe I did randomly give her money here or there but there was no expectation that this was what attracted her to me. To me a civy girl is someone I find through a regular dating website or just meet her at a bar / club etc.

My typical SB approach is no pre-agreed on amount, then I gift them on each date. They know they are getting the gift and that this was the whole purpose of us meeting on an SD site, but at least on the first date, they are either putting a certain amount of trust in me that I just won't hand them twenty bucks or something insulting, or maybe they are just fucking me the first time purely on appeal. Yes there are those who insist on discussing money up front but I usually go dark on those before we ever get started. If they aren't attracted to me without nagging for money before I've ever met them then I'm not interested, plenty of other girls out there.

But even my typical SB wouldn't be considered "random" payment. It's expected on their part and should be. Random would be if I'm dating someone a couple of months and she runs into a hardship like car repair or something and I pick up the tab.

The exception to all this is stripper takeout, where its all about negotiating up front (they are making too much money at the club to take time off work to fuck a random stranger so its not happening for free, at least not if you want it on the same night they're working). But I don't consider stripper takeout to be SB or civy (although either one can end up that way).

To me the term civy implies no money expectation at all. I guess we all have our own definitions.[/QUOTE]We can agree that a civy gf doesn't expect money. For me and probably 98% of the girls on a site a sb is expecting financial help. They can get dick anywhere for free. Now for me the arrangement is figured out at the m / g if there is a connection. If everything is figured out prior to FC that alleviates the girl from worrying about being compensated, worring about some one determining what she is worth, or being entirely stiffed. These girls can tell some horrendous stories of this. All this is taken care of before the FC. For me any sex worker is not considered a sb. I guess my standsrds of a sb is higher than most here. My sb's come exclusively through a site as I don't have the time to find them a conventional way. If I'm doing it the conventional way they become a gf, why convert them to a sb.

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;3030902]The basis of marriage is sex and financial support. A marriage is not "official" until consummated and sex outside the marriage is grounds for divorce. Most women still expect financial support in a marriage and financial problems is also one of the primary causes of divorce. Many women look to date a man that has resources to treat them well and would be date them if they didn't. You could argue they are SB's as well.

My point is don't judge another man's definition of an SB. I understand by your your definition you would consider them an SB. I have stopped payment with SB'S and they have continued to see me. I would help them at times, just like I would any woman I was dating who truly needed, but didn't expect, help.[/QUOTE]I said the gf and sb definition was clear for me. Everyone has their own definition as you can see and read from the sb threads here. My standards are higher than most here apparently. I'm not looking for any sex workers by trade whether pros to swers posting profiles.

Anyone seen her? Guessing utr for $$$ she wanted.

[URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/e8d0ee62-a97a-25af-5b72-d59e9acf706a[/URL]

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;3031013]My sb's come exclusively through a site as I don't have the time to find them a conventional way. If I'm doing it the conventional way they become a gf, why convert them to a sb.[/QUOTE]If a guy has an wife or is in a LTR, he is crazy to get involved with a conventional, civy, or unpaid GF (what ever we call them).

The financial help is what constitutes the agreement. Hush money. I don't care if I can get it for free or not, I'm going to gift her to create that wall of separation and remind her what our meetings are about.

I agree in ways with all of you gentlemen. The parallels between SBs and SOs have also been on my mind since hopping into the bowl. My SO, despite serious faults, is quite beautiful and would be considered a catch. I would say if she were a SB she would have GPS. And, believe me, I pay through the nose for her. So, I am already accustomed to the idea of 'getting what you pay for' - Hollywood Guy would never give the sugar I do, but my SB surpasses many. Some guys drive Chevys, I like the German cars. There is tremendous irony here.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;3031451]If a guy has an wife or is in a LTR, he is crazy to get involved with a conventional, civy, or unpaid GF (what ever we call them).

The financial help is what constitutes the agreement. Hush money. I don't care if I can get it for free or not, I'm going to gift her to create that wall of separation and remind her what our meetings are about.[/QUOTE]Agreed. Or go to an escort, who is also getting hush money. In my view, though, a SB is superior to escorts b / c I don't have to think about how many hundreds / thousands of guys have been there before me (if I keep to my standards), and b / c there is the potential of a genuine connection, it might be cheaper (despite the fact that she will never know who I really am).

I did not mean to get us off track and starting at SB101 with the definition of a SB. I just wanted to answer a profile question that was asked to me by multiple people. So let's get back on track here.

After having a rather busy 5 days trying to please two women, I decided I'd better let one of them go. So I got rid of the one I had spent the least amount of time with. She was not happy, but it dramatically cut my expenses down and I get more time with the younger, hotter one anyway.

The Stewardess is about to get bounced too as she's requesting way too many funds way too early without enough tokens built up to cash in. So we'll see how this goes, how much she ignores me after telling her no I'd not support more fallout from your bad financial decisions. I have a backup raring to go, I just need to give the green light. She'll be one a week minimum for $500 per month.

BigTigg.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;3031451]If a guy has an wife or is in a LTR, he is crazy to get involved with a conventional, civy, or unpaid GF (what ever we call them).

The financial help is what constitutes the agreement. Hush money. I don't care if I can get it for free or not, I'm going to gift her to create that wall of separation and remind her what our meetings are about.[/QUOTE]First paragraph; its a roll of the dice, a chance your taking on any of these girls unless they are sex workers. If you have a so or ltr that's the chance you take by your choice to play. If caught the so would probably take it better if it was. A civy gf rather than knowing your paying for pussy. Any SO that has a shred of self worth is going to bounce you whatever the case is free or paid.

2nd paragraph. Your right the financial part constitutes the arrangement. Most of these girls are just looking for help, not a bf. Does the arrangement create a wall of separation to remind them of their place. Most know their place, you can read that in their profiles as they complain about guys not knowing what a sd / sb relationship is. Most know what is required but the complaint is about the guy wanting to date them without help or getting attached to them. From the complaints I've read on these threads from guys complaini g about the sb not being friendly enough or getting the GFE from them, not texting enough and on and on its more likely of the guy getting attached rather than the girl.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;3031703]First paragraph; its a roll of the dice, a chance your taking on any of these girls unless they are sex workers. If you have a so or ltr that's the chance you take by your choice to play. If caught the so would probably take it better if it was. A civy gf rather than knowing your paying for pussy. Any SO that has a shred of self worth is going to bounce you whatever the case is free or paid.[/QUOTE]I think you may be misunderstanding the risk I've been speaking of here, so I will clarify. I'm not talking about the risk of the SO finding out (in isolation), I'm talking about the risk of the SB (compared to an emotionally invested girlfriend) taking steps to get more deeply involved in your personal life (against your wishes), whether its breaking up your marriage or having your baby or whatever. The risk of the SO finding out is part of the risk, but there can be career implications, financial implications, time wasting implications etc. of having a female turned obsessive on you. I have a long history of otherwise normal-seeming girls turned stalker on me, and I don't need that kind of shit interfering with a long-term-relationship I've spent many years building.

When you use money to create sort of a boss / personal assistant relationship between you and the girl, you reduce the chances of her latching onto you emotionally, falling in love, etc. If she gets emotionally attached to you, you've introduced a new risk dynamic. You know what they say about a woman scorned. If she falls for you she's not going to let you go easily. I don't want that kind of obligation so by paying her I'm reminding her she is my paid play toy.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;3031703]
2nd paragraph. Your right the financial part constitutes the arrangement. Most of these girls are just looking for help, not a bf. Does the arrangement create a wall of separation to remind them of their place. Most know their place, you can read that in their profiles as they complain about guys not knowing what a sd / sb relationship is. Most know what is required but the complaint is about the guy wanting to date them without help or getting attached to them. From the complaints I've read on these threads from guys complaini g about the sb not being friendly enough or getting the GFE from them, not texting enough and on and on its more likely of the guy getting attached rather than the girl.[/QUOTE]Yes the arrangement absolutely creates a wall of separation. I've used this technique for decades before the SD sites were even born. As soon as you become a financial provider instead of an emotional provider, it makes it easier to detach from her because all you have to do is stop the money flow. Stopping the flow of real feelings from the heart is infinitely more difficult and time consuming (and if you're in a marriage or relationship with someone else, incredibly risky). That's just common sense "Women 101" and understanding the female mind, IMO.

There is another huge sexual benefit to all this. Some of these girls appreciate the wall of separation as much as we do. It allows them to not think of their sex partner as a boyfriend, and try out all their kinks and fantasies without fear of judgement. They will fuck a sugar daddy way more intensely than they will an age appropriate boyfriend. They've been conditioned to "care too much" about what the guy thinks of them. If it's just an SD hookup, they look at the encounter as "just sex", no emotions. Therefore "anything goes". All the naughty shit they always wanted to try but were afraid of being judged can now be explored. I'm sure some of them do the same with random hookup apps like Tinder, but they aren't likely to satisfy their "daddy kink" that way. And yes, that's the actual term some of them call it. I've seen these girls openly talk on Facebook about having a daddy kink and not wanting to be judged for their preference for dating older men -- I've seen them discuss it openly for all their friends and family to see.

[QUOTE=FarFarAway;3031462]Agreed. Or go to an escort, who is also getting hush money. In my view, though, a SB is superior to escorts b / c I don't have to think about how many hundreds / thousands of guys have been there before me (if I keep to my standards), and b / c there is the potential of a genuine connection, it might be cheaper (despite the fact that she will never know who I really am).[/QUOTE]Yes, escorts are even less risky than SBs in this regard. I've never been much of an escort mongerer but I do know in that scene they are almost never emotionally invested in their customers. SBs do get emotionally invested, sometimes, even with payment, but it is completely manageable.

The only guys who should ever flip an SB to a free girlfriend are those who have nothing to hide (no SO). I know there are some brothers on here that are going through a divorce or for whatever reason do want the overall companionship and emotional involvement of a real GF, and in those cases there's nothing wrong with converting an SB to a freebie (probably only makes financial sense to do so). I personally think all SBs are somewhat damaged goods and would not make good long-term partners (for me), so I wouldn't do it personally, but I'm also aware how vastly experiences can vary here and not all SBs are the same (far from it).

[QUOTE=BigTigger;3027531]Get a MC / Visa gift card. You can buy them for up to $500. All you need is to register a zip code online and you don't have to use your own. I have a real residential address that I just found on Google Maps. I use that address and zip code for all my online hobbying activities. You can also use the gift cards when you are out to hide buying two movie tickets, larger than normal meal purchases, etc.

BigTigg.[/QUOTE]After months of using anonymous MC and Visa Gift cards to renew my SA membership, suddenly they are not accepting them any more. Is anyone else having this issue?

I even tied these gift cards to a Paypal account, and it won't take that either?

Can someone suggest another anonymous way to pay?

I'm reminded of an old phrase: "I don't need to pay women to sleep with me, but I do pay them to leave me".

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;3031997]Yes, escorts are even less risky than SBs in this regard. I've never been much of an escort mongerer but I do know in that scene they are almost never emotionally invested in their customers. SBs do get emotionally invested, sometimes, even with payment, but it is completely manageable.

The only guys who should ever flip an SB to a free girlfriend are those who have nothing to hide (no SO). I know there are some brothers on here that are going through a divorce or for whatever reason do want the overall companionship and emotional involvement of a real GF, and in those cases there's nothing wrong with converting an SB to a freebie (probably only makes financial sense to do so). I personally think all SBs are somewhat damaged goods and would not make good long-term partners (for me), so I wouldn't do it personally, but I'm also aware how vastly experiences can vary here and not all SBs are the same (far from it).[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;3032254]I'm reminded of an old phrase: "I don't need to pay women to sleep with me, but I do pay them to leave me".[/QUOTE]Yep, and I've found the old adage about pussy never being free to be one of the truisms of life.

One way or another, pussy comes with an obligation. I don't want to be held to the emotional obligation, so I opt for the alternative, the financial one.

[QUOTE=JoeBogus;3032140]After months of using anonymous MC and Visa Gift cards to renew my SA membership, suddenly they are not accepting them any more. Is anyone else having this issue?

I even tied these gift cards to a Paypal account, and it won't take that either?

Can someone suggest another anonymous way to pay?[/QUOTE]Had this same problem. Based on feedback here and a semi-helpful response from SA customer service, here's what works:

Get a Vanilla Visa. Available at WalGreens, etc. With a $4. 95 service fee. Load it with $70 (assuming you're paying the $69.95 monthly fee).

I used the Visa version last week, but the Mastercard version worked for me back in May.

Call the number on the card, put in the card number + security code to validate, then choose the option to set the ZIP code for the card. (The website did not work for me, I had to call to set the ZIP).

On SA, choose the PayPal option. Do the guest checkout (no PayPal account), use any name or address but the ZIP must match the ZIP you set for the card.

Good luck!

[QUOTE=JoyDrop;3033363]Had this same problem. Based on feedback here and a semi-helpful response from SA customer service, here's what works:

Get a Vanilla Visa. Available at WalGreens, etc. With a $4. 95 service fee. Load it with $70 (assuming you're paying the $69.95 monthly fee).

I used the Visa version last week, but the Mastercard version worked for me back in May.

Call the number on the card, put in the card number + security code to validate, then choose the option to set the ZIP code for the card. (The website did not work for me, I had to call to set the ZIP).

On SA, choose the PayPal option. Do the guest checkout (no PayPal account), use any name or address but the ZIP must match the ZIP you set for the card.

Good luck![/QUOTE]The merchant can load the card with $69.95 exactly. You don't need to put whole dollar amounts ($70) on the gift card.

The only difference I have seen between the Vanilla Visa and the Vanilla MasterCard is that the service fee is a dollar more on the MasterCard version.

SDX.

Long time lurker, first time poster. Thought I would contribute some anecdotes.

Visa Gift Card:

Tried the guest Paypal option to no success. They need to get that worked out.

SA in general:

This is probably the biggest life hack ever. I don't think there's a better way to meet beautiful women who are open to a relationship (financial or otherwise). Who has time to approach a couple dozen girls a day, hoping for a free lay? Not a grown man who isn't a loser, I tell you that.

Choosing POTS:

This is unique to me and the type of woman I screen for, so keep that in mind. I completely avoid any profile that mentions spoiling, and that isn't set to negotiable. In my situation I also avoid profiles that come across too "UTR", or are excessively short. You can feel the vibe from her photos pretty often. If she's already setting up the meet without a photo request that's a red flag. If she wants $ to m&g that's another flag. If she's talking money up front, pass. Some girls spend their days on sugar blogs and get their heads filled that they are going to be rolling in $. They are a lost cause. New girls get bombarded with options (and lies) and get spooked pretty easily. I can't say for sure what the best timing is, but you've got to make the m&g happen before she disappears. Also I tend to stay in the early 20's range.

Pictures:

Having a profile picture definitely helps set you apart from creepy message #50 she's received. Send normal photo over text.

Sugar:

Depending on your location there's going to be guys throwing lots of money around ($500+/ meet easily) making it harder to play with the really hot ones. They know their worth. Know your budget, also know when you are priced out.

Etiquette:

You cannot treat these girls like a hooker. If you're negotiating BBBJ and MSOG, you're doing it wrong. Also if you burn these girls you're making it harder for everyone else to pull her back out of her shell, if she ever comes back out of it at all. Be a decent person, hold up your end, or don't get involved at all.

SB / GF scenarios:

[QUOTE=BigTigger;3030191]You actually show a great difference in our approaches. I'm not looking for the women who want an arrangement. I'm looking for those who want what feels like a discreet affair with a married man with some financial help along the way. Your target audience would not work for me because the funds I offer are not enough for anyone to stay, LOL. So I probably should have had that caveat at the beginning of my post. Also, I target African American women and Latinas. As stated before, the nature of supply and demand for those two groups, keeps my expenses low. The good thing is that in many cases I don't have to sacrifice looks or body, I just have to be more emotionally involved and get them more emotionally involved. I will say this, I've been surprised at the number who were willing to deal with me knowing I had others in the stable. Sometimes honesty is a big turn on for them.

So fellow hobbyist, make sure to modify our suggestions based on who you are, what you bring to the table and what you are targeting. For the arrangement folks, funds and gifts at the M&G may have little effect. However for those who want to strongly believe they are not selling the goodies, the gifts and cash works wonders.

BigTigg.[/QUOTE]I felt like I should chime in specifically because of BigTigg's recent contributions. All of it is spot on. There's a market here for a certain type of play.

Like BigTigg, I'm more interested in pulling a girl interested in the relationship aspect of it than the financial. You could say more mentorship / lifestyle. They are definitely out there, sometimes they don't even realize it themselves until you've softened them up a little (via text+m&g). This is something I've figured out over time. I'm also younger (30's), well paid and objectively not bad looking so it's a bit easier for me. I've found the money becomes more symbolic than a cornerstone to the arrangement if you aren't getting involved with a girl in a desperate situation. You take a young woman without a ton of relationship experience who's only really been with guys her own age, treat her well (like a person), give her the best sex she's had, can afford to do things without issue, give her thoughtful things (including $), and you've pretty much sealed it until something about it becomes untenable (boyfriend comes into play, she or you moves, or she's too much drama, etc). It's just dating at that point. Sure this won't work for every guy, you've actually got to have some natural charm and game to go along with it. Honesty goes a LONG way. There's a lot of value in the intangibles that get overlooked at face value.

"They can get dick anywhere for free". Completely true, but they can't get the above quite so easily. Most guys are bums.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;3028619]BT, you seem to have the market in low cost sugaring. But, the babies who are on sugar sites are mostly looking for -well-sugar. It is good to know that there are cute young things looking for a good time, roll in the hay, and a gift card to Walmart, but it is important for the readership to know that this is not the norm. BT must be extremely talented at screening for this type of girl, or immensely appealing. Most of us have to pay the price to take the prize.[/QUOTE]Also spot on. You've got to be able to recognize your situation and make the best of it. You're not going to convince a woman who is dead set on one thing to change her mind, respect that.

This college girl got on SA today, cute pix, artsy fartsy. We messaged a little and went to the M&G. I don't know what came over me. Probably 8/8/10 (the latter her advertisement), but bright. She's from a very Christian family and wants to get out of her parent's home where she is harassed (of course, needs $ to get a place). Literally wants / needs to do a midnight escape. Admitted to escorting for a couple months during her first semester to pay bills, but claims she is now clean. Sundress at the M&G, much flirting, touching her legs, flashes her black panties, sits in my car and more touching, kissing. She definitely wants to meet again but of course can't host and I can't book a room (SO). That 1/3 my age thing is very tempting. Danger here?

My first post here. First off, let me thank everyone who have contributed to this thread. You guys are awesome!

So I am fairly new to the SB thing. Working on setting up a couple of M&Gs currently. I have a bit of experience with escorts in the past, mostly from BP.

So here is my question. How safe is to indulge in oral (DATY) with SBs? With escorts, I have never done it mostly due to my fear of STDs. So, I am looking for guidance from the more experienced folks on what you guys think and standards you go by. What about kissing.

[QUOTE=Coldsnap78;3036799]My first post here. First off, let me thank everyone who have contributed to this thread. You guys are awesome!

So I am fairly new to the SB thing. Working on setting up a couple of M&Gs currently. I have a bit of experience with escorts in the past, mostly from BP.

So here is my question. How safe is to indulge in oral (DATY) with SBs? With escorts, I have never done it mostly due to my fear of STDs. So, I am looking for guidance from the more experienced folks on what you guys think and standards you go by. What about kissing.[/QUOTE]Only you can decide how much risk you are willing to take. You can read enough online from medical websites to scare you. But when it comes down to the little head thinking, all that is forgotten when you just picked up a coed from her dorm.

[QUOTE=Coldsnap78;3036799]My first post here. First off, let me thank everyone who have contributed to this thread. You guys are awesome!

So I am fairly new to the SB thing. Working on setting up a couple of M&Gs currently. I have a bit of experience with escorts in the past, mostly from BP.

So here is my question. How safe is to indulge in oral (DATY) with SBs? With escorts, I have never done it mostly due to my fear of STDs. So, I am looking for guidance from the more experienced folks on what you guys think and standards you go by. What about kissing.[/QUOTE]Any girl can be a carrier of Herpes, Chlamydia, etc. It depends on your risk aversion. I try to avoid polyamorous girls (multifuckers) as much as I can. But I suck and fuck with abandon once I vet them best I can. This "hobby" is not for the weak hearted and carries some risks. Some SBs are not sexually active when you meet them and others add you to their list. Many SBs are Pros in disguise-so you never know for sure. Ideally, get her tested for STDs and if clean go for it.

[QUOTE=Coldsnap78;3036799]My first post here. First off, let me thank everyone who have contributed to this thread. You guys are awesome!

So I am fairly new to the SB thing. Working on setting up a couple of M&Gs currently. I have a bit of experience with escorts in the past, mostly from BP.

So here is my question. How safe is to indulge in oral (DATY) with SBs? With escorts, I have never done it mostly due to my fear of STDs. So, I am looking for guidance from the more experienced folks on what you guys think and standards you go by. What about kissing.[/QUOTE]There is a thread here on USA where this topic is welcome to be discussed:

[URL]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?4227-Safe-Sex-Information-and-Advice[/URL]

It all comes down to one's perception of risk and how they choose to handle it.

Problem I see with the topic is two-fold:

1) Severe ignorance (lack of knowledge) runs rampant. So get good information from CDC Website or other good medical sources, not just some internet site or blog.

2) Without the proper facts (facts are facts and NOT opinions or variable) most fill-in the holes created by ignorance (lack or knowledge) with [U]belief[/U] and as such, rational thought goes by the way-side and [U]emotions take over.[/U] Everyone is free to do as they please. For me making emotional decisions, rather than fact based decisions, is silly.

Currently there is nothing out there that will kill you if you have medical attention. (with Obama Care everyone should have medical insurance). From my research, F2M transmission rates are fairly low and transmission through oral sex, in my evaluation, is an acceptable risk.

What always surprises me is people who are outside social mores by engaging in this hobby, that get all upset they "caught something!" Seems like a blow to one's ego or self because only "those people" or dirty people catch STDs. Oh I know, the old "fool yourself" with a double standard! IMHO: If you can't look yerself in the mirror and admit yer a sl*ut, then what are you doing in the hobby?

I'm just sayin'

CL
[I]{Hi! My name is Cephlapod. I am a sl*t!}[/I]

[QUOTE=Coldsnap78;3036799]My first post here. First off, let me thank everyone who have contributed to this thread. You guys are awesome!
So I am fairly new to the SB thing. Working on setting up a couple of M&Gs currently. I have a bit of experience with escorts in the past, mostly from BP.
So here is my question. How safe is to indulge in oral (DATY) with SBs? With escorts, I have never done it mostly due to my fear of STDs. So, I am looking for guidance from the more experienced folks on what you guys think and standards you go by. What about kissing.[/QUOTE]During your time in the bowl you'll meet girls on either end of the "upscale pussy" spectrum. At one end of the spectrum you have girls that are very conscientious and selective about who they date, and at the other end of the spectrum you have party girls who do regularly do drugs or get so drunk they can't remember who all they might have fucked the night before. With some practice and some social media research you can usually start to get some picture of where they fall on the spectrum.

"Upscale pussy" (by my own definition) is usually a girl who is clearly intelligent & drug free, has a plan in life (other than having her hands in her SD's pockets) and demonstrates the actual brains and motivation to achieve those dreams. They may still be in college or maybe recently out of college in the early stages of a good career path, or if a little older they might actually have a nice job. Anything that indicates they aspire to be more than just a parasite that lets someone else pay their way through life, while their idea of getting things done consists of just spreading their legs.

Upscale pussy will typically be lower risk, but there's no guarantees. It's a sad state of things to say, but if really trying to avoid STDs, demographic should be taken into consideration. Look up the statistics on this and you'll see what I mean. Also don't forget to take into consideration the demographic of the girl, but the demographic group of the company she keeps (check social media).

Ironically, the only time I've ever been informed that I had a near miss with an STD, a fuck buddy who was definitely upscale pussy informed me she tested positive for genital herpes (in blood antibodies, she said she had never had outbreaks). She had a nice job, was smart, hot as hell, and selective about jumping into bed with people. Wakeup call that it can happen to anyone. Now that said, I bet I've been exposed to girls that are HSV positive a thousand times and just didn't know it, she was just the conscientious type that would get tested in the first plance and happened to believe in informing her fuck buddy about it. Luckily she did not pass it on to me. Who knows what we don't know?

Drugs are the biggest indicator of high risk. Even heavy drinkers and regular weed smokers have a higher prevalence of STDs, because they find themselves in more situations where good judgement is cast aside.

First, JL, clear your mailbox so I can PM you.

Regarding the demographic comment you make, I looked at the CDC stats for herpes, and rates definitely increase with age (presumably = # of partners). So, we are keeping ourselves safer by fucking younger girls. LOL.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;3037552]During your time in the bowl you'll meet girls on either end of the "upscale pussy" spectrum. At one end of the spectrum you have girls that are very conscientious and selective about who they date, and at the other end of the spectrum you have party girls who do regularly do drugs or get so drunk they can't remember who all they might have fucked the night before. With some practice and some social media research you can usually start to get some picture of where they fall on the spectrum.

"Upscale pussy" (by my own definition) is usually a girl who is clearly intelligent & drug free, has a plan in life (other than having her hands in her SD's pockets) and demonstrates the actual brains and motivation to achieve those dreams. They may still be in college or maybe recently out of college in the early stages of a good career path, or if a little older they might actually have a nice job. Anything that indicates they aspire to be more than just a parasite that lets someone else pay their way through life, while their idea of getting things done consists of just spreading their legs.

Upscale pussy will typically be lower risk, but there's no guarantees. It's a sad state of things to say, but if really trying to avoid STDs, demographic should be taken into consideration. Look up the statistics on this and you'll see what I mean. Also don't forget to take into consideration the demographic of the girl, but the demographic group of the company she keeps (check social media).

Ironically, the only time I've ever been informed that I had a near miss with an STD, a fuck buddy who was definitely upscale pussy informed me she tested positive for genital herpes (in blood antibodies, she said she had never had outbreaks). She had a nice job, was smart, hot as hell, and selective about jumping into bed with people. Wakeup call that it can happen to anyone. Now that said, I bet I've been exposed to girls that are HSV positive a thousand times and just didn't know it, she was just the conscientious type that would get tested in the first plance and happened to believe in informing her fuck buddy about it. Luckily she did not pass it on to me. Who knows what we don't know?

Drugs are the biggest indicator of high risk. Even heavy drinkers and regular weed smokers have a higher prevalence of STDs, because they find themselves in more situations where good judgement is cast aside.[/QUOTE]

One of the big deals about getting a hotel room is the need to show some kind of I'd. College kids get fake IDs all the time to buy alcohol. Why isn't there some reasonable source of fake I'd for SDs so they can use their fake name to check into a hotel with a prepaid card. Some of my SBs don't have credit cards to get the room for me.

So I am messaging with a 26 year old Colombian woman named "Phamela". She is totally UTR. Has anyone seen her? I would like to meet her but would like to know more before I met her.

I am finding my gym is a very helpful piece of the puzzle in the bowl. Elsewhere, in the highlights, there is discussion of why keeping in shape helps our game, etc. A couple of other points. I inquired of my physician about my T levels, and he mentioned several common behaviors that raise it. Including having sex (we're all doing our part there), hanging out with guys (we virtually do that here), and working out. In my gym, in an upscale coastal California county, there is so much hot pussy walking around, that is an even greater effect. Definitely motivating to get into the bowl. My dream would be to find someone I see in my gym on SA.

What I particularly like about the gym is it gives me a reason / excuse to be out of the house, where I can access my burner without worry and I can establish an 'alibi'. They have a check-in scanner and on my account on their website I can see the days and times I have been there. If it is not too far out of my way, I can head there on my way to see a SB just to establish I was 'working out', not stepping out. I slip out a back exit and hop right back in the car to head to the FC. I also established a pattern of going there after work on certain days. I can then take afternoon time off to hit a hotel right at check-in time, spend a few hours with the SB, then go to the gym for at the least a deep shower, if not an actual workout. That cleans me up and provides a reason for me to be out of the clothes I wore with the SB, and cuts the risk there will be evidence.

[QUOTE=Ltnric;3037772]So I am messaging with a 26 year old Colombian woman named "Phamela". She is totally UTR. Has anyone seen her? I would like to meet her but would like to know more before I met her.[/QUOTE]Did she say why she posted in Spanish? She caught my eye but I am currently not premium on SA. Any of her private pics hot?