Safe Mongering in Honolulu

My attitude toward this is that when visiting a provider, a hobbyist must assume that neither she nor her previous customers will disclose whatever diseases she may currently carry.

Fortunately, as is the case with virtually all common diseases, STDs are either not that dangerous or else easy to avoid catching. This is why we can do what we do without ruining our health, and why providers generally are in good health too (at least massage/escort providers are -- I don't know anything about street providers).

Most of us will never catch anything. A few of us will become infected with curable bacterial infections (and if we have spouses, we'd better take steps to ensure we don't). Some will catch incurable but gentle or treatable viral infections (Herpes, HPV, etc.). Extremely occasionally, largely through carelessness or negligence, one of us will catch something dangerous such as HIV. There's no excuse for catching anything that you can be vaccinated against such as Hepatitis A/B, but some will neglect that and will catch it.

Your quote mentioned HSV (Herpes) and HPV (Warts). My understanding is that the vast majority of those who have these viral diseases don't know they have it, and either have no symptoms or have symptoms that they never manage to associate with any sort of disease. For example, many people with HSV just have an occasional pimple or "cold sore" (even if it's oral HSV-2). This is so "normal" in our society that many never even consider that they are sick.

I'm not sure this really answers the question, but here's something to think about. Almost all of we Americans (about 50% by age 2 and more than 90% by age 50) are infected with the Herpes Simplex I Virus (HSV-1), often called "oral Herpes". 90% of those infected cannot identify their own symptoms, and so are unaware that they have it. It is not considered an STD because it is passed by normal social contact such as kissing a child goodnight, as well as by sexual contact. If you're reading this post, you probably have it, and have probably had it since you were a child, before sex. In my own case, my STD testing included all the usual suspects, and also a test for HSV-1 and HSV-2. I have HSV-1 (as the vast majority of Americans do), but nothing else.

Let me answer the question like this. I don't report my HSV-1 infection to any providers I kiss, because it seems silly to do so. I also don't report it to my wife (no idea if she has it), kids (they likely got it from some relative or other), or friends at parties who I greet with a peck on the cheek.

For HSV-2 (which I don't have), I would likely not report it, for the following reason. In tests of mismatched couples (one has HSV-2, the other doesn't) who have regular sex (but not during an outbreak), transmission over the course of 1 year occurs in about 4% of the cases. However, if transmission hasn't occurred in the first couple of years, that percentage rapidly decreases -- the body builds up some sort of immunity. After about 5 years, it's unlikely to be received. So, those of us who have been doing this for more than a few years and yet haven't caught it are unlikely to catch it at all. Similarly, any provider who doesn't already have it is unlikely to get it unless she's very new to sex. About 22% of Adult Americans have HSV-2, and I believe the percentage of providers who have it is quite a bit higher. I believe anyone with HSV-2 who is having an outbreak should not engage in sex, whether customer or provider. I *always* check a provider for signs of HSV-2, and avoid contact if I find any. I also avoid those with cold sores, since HSV-2 can be transmitted orally if there is an open wound (incredibly rare to transmit HSV-2 orally if there is no open wound).

I know of other brothers who use the "finger test" (FIV) to test for smoothness before plunging in, checking for warts. I don't know how reliable this is though. By the way, HPV is also responsible for finger/foot warts, though slightly different varieties. So it's fairly common. Females can be vaccinated against it these days, I believe. For men, the warts are treatable, as are other kinds of warts.

So in summary, I don't think there's much reporting of HSV or HPV going on, and I don't expect to be told anything about them by a provider. I do check for HSV myself, and though that's not foolproof, it seems like enough safety to me. I don't think that managed HSV-2 needs to be disclosed, and I don't expect that it would be disclosed even if it did need to be.

I do think that any serious disease such as HIV should be disclosed. However, I also don't expect that it will be, and I take actions to render HIV a non-threat to me (my rule is: condom while FS, no anal at all).

Thanks for the great question. As usual, I've provided a long, wordy answer :(

Gherkin




[QUOTE=Kapalua]The recent messages of a forum member who said he was infected with both genital herpes and HPV (which caused genital warts) present an interesting question. Both genital herpes and HPV can potentially be transmitted to a sexual partner even if a condom is used and even during times when there are [b]no visible symptoms[/b]. Thus, I'm sure that we would all agree that a provider infected with genital herpes and/or HPV should inform a customer that she is infected, so that the customer can decide whether or not to take the risk.

However, what are the views of the forum membership on whether a customer has a duty to inform a provider that he's infected with genital herpes and/or HPV, even when there are no visible symptoms, so that the provider can decide whether or not to take the risk? Of course, doing so may make it much more difficult for the customer to find a provider willing to service him. On the other hand, it could seem hypocritical to maintain that a provider should have a duty to warn a customer, but a customer doesn't have a duty to warn a provider. What say you?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE] I take actions to render HIV a non-threat to me (my rule is: condom while FS, no anal at all).

Thanks for the great question. As usual, I've provided a long, wordy answer :(

Gherkin[/QUOTE]More great information as usual Gherkin.

Thanks

[QUOTE=Member#3973]The test is free and so is treatment. It is not anonymous since you have to provide an ID, but it is confidential.

You can call to get the results of the HIV test and for the gonorrhea/chlamydia tests. If you are infected, you are expected to go back, but I have been lucky sofar except for the NGU, which they treated during my initial visit.

At least some of our tax dollars are used wisely :-)

I get tested there every year, and yes, that Q-tip probe is very painful.[/QUOTE]Like any doctor or clinic visit ID is always required. But yes HIV testing is confidential and is considered protected records. Not just anyone can get there hands on these as long as the facilty is following the HIPA law. If I remember right the only way for someone to obtaing these protected records are through court orders.

Very good statement Member#3973

[QUOTE=Member#3973]The test is free and so is treatment. It is not anonymous since you have to provide an ID, but it is confidential.

You can call to get the results of the HIV test and for the gonorrhea/chlamydia tests. If you are infected, you are expected to go back, but I have been lucky sofar except for the NGU, which they treated during my initial visit.

At least some of our tax dollars are used wisely :-)

I get tested there every year, and yes, that Q-tip probe is very painful.[/QUOTE]I agree that Q-tip is nuts man. And they jam it in there like what feels like 3 inches deep or so, but in reality its just past the tip....ugh.

Does anyone know of anywhere in Hawaii that offers the more modern methods of STD testing? Peeing in the cup and swab to the cheek, etc?

[QUOTE=Woweee]I agree that Q-tip is nuts man.[/QUOTE]

I'll never take that test again.

Never.

With all that has been said/debated/posted here on this board and all other safe mongering practices assumed (what ever that means to you):

Would you lessen your odds to 0, or very near 0 for this discussion, chance of contracting an STD if you keep to only having sex with a small hand full (1-9) of young (mid 20's) AMP and escort providers (less time in business, less chances of contracting std)?

Would you lessen your odds to 0 chance of contracting an STD if you only had sex with younger higher priced ($$$$. and up) escorts (they cost more thus they have less customers per day, more customers with higher incomes, therefore lessen their chances of contracting std)?

[QUOTE=Cleanman]

Would you lessen your odds to 0, or very near 0 for this discussion, chance of contracting an STD if you keep to only having sex with a small hand full (1-9) of young (mid 20's) AMP and escort providers (less time in business, less chances of contracting std)?

Would you lessen your odds to 0 chance of contracting an STD if you only had sex with younger higher priced ($$$$. and up) escorts (they cost more thus they have less customers per day, more customers with higher incomes, therefore lessen their chances of contracting std)?[/QUOTE]

Hard to tell. The best way to avoid exposure is to always use condoms and avoid providers that give BBFS. BBBJ is not risk free either, so to limit the odd further only accept CBJ. If, in addition the provider is young, educated and expensive, you have probably limiedt your risk as much as possible

Small number of women doesn't help. Each time you mix your fluids with hers (or in the case of Herpes, just having your thin-skinned areas touch hers), you expose yourself to risk.

So, can you expose yourself to "less infected than average" women by limiting the number of women? Not as long as those women are seeing customers by the thousands per year.

Can you help yourself by choosing young women over old ones? It is true that the longer you (or she) keeps up risky behaviors, the more likely you (or her) is likely to be infected with something that doesn't go away, such as HIV or Herpes. So, in that respect, younger is better than older. However, bearing in mind that many professional women see more than 1000 men per year, and many offer BB (whether they do to you or not, they do to some others), I don't think that age is a hugely important factor.

I believe you can lower your risk in the following ways.

See pro women less often - obviously this lowers your infection risk. If you abstain, it goes to zero.

See only women who appear to take care of themselves - don't see drug addicts, women who can't even keep their apartment/room tidy, women who don't seem to eat properly or make themselves look pretty. Why? Because these things are signs that they may not take care of themselves. However, if you only see nice healthy-looking clean women, they (and therefore you) may still be infected with something. I believe that women who try to take care of themselves are more likely to get STD tests, but those who don't will skip them. Getting the tests is important because in many cases its the only way to find out you have something, and get yourself on a course of antibiotics or anti-retrovirals.

I believe it still comes down to this: Herpes is something you'll either catch or not, and if you do covered/uncovered FS, there's really not much you can do to prevent it. If you only do BJ/HJ, your chances of catching it are extremely low. If you do DATY, you may catch HSV2 orally, but it will almost certainly never bother you again after the first outbreak. You'll also be protected genitally after that happens, once a few weeks have passed.

HIV is easy to avoid by using a condom and avoiding anal sex. Some say it's easy to avoid even when doing BBFS, but I'm not sure enough to try it.

Hepatitis is preventable, so get the vaccines.

Anything bacterial that is a common STD can be cured with easy antibiotics, and almost certainly can be prevented by pre-taking zithromax (but if you monger so frequently that the antibiotics are perpetually in your system, that doesn't sound good either). This is good for the "once a month" people who don't want to risk infecting a spouse. Also good for occasional trips to Thailand, Philippines, and so on.

Also good to remember that we all occasionally catch viruses and bacterial infections from other people (not sexually), such as coughs and colds. Somehow, we all survive.

Gherkin



[QUOTE=Cleanman]Would you lessen your odds to 0, or very near 0 for this discussion, chance of contracting an STD if you keep to only having sex with a small hand full (1-9) of young (mid 20's) AMP and escort providers (less time in business, less chances of contracting std)?[/QUOTE]

Another way of summing this up is:

HJ is safer than shaking hands with someone

Kissing might get you a non-STD, and even deep kissing is almost universally regarded as safe. Small chance of bacterial STD, which are easily cured.

BBBJ is extremely safe, but if deep throated, you might catch a bacterial infection, which will be easily treated.

BBFS may catch you Herpes, HIV (but not conclusive), bacterial infections (easily treated)

CFS may catch you Herpes

BBAnal may catch you just about anything

Covered Anal is like CFS, but condoms break more often during anal, I'm told.

To me, there's a big line in between oral and FS/Anal. If sticking to oral/hand sex, just take steps to protect against bacterial infection, and you should be fine. If not, then use a condom, and stop if she's not well lubed. You may catch Herpes if you FS, covered or not. You won't catch Herpes from BBBJ.

Gherkin, but I'm not a doctor, so these are just my opinions after researching this pretty thoroughly on the internet.


[QUOTE=Member#3973]Hard to tell. The best way to avoid exposure is to always use condoms and avoid providers that give BBFS. BBBJ is not risk free either, so to limit the odd further only accept CBJ. If, in addition the provider is young, educated and expensive, you have probably limiedt your risk as much as possible[/QUOTE]

Life foundation does anonymous testing for HIV, free. Did not ask for ID.

[url]http://www.lifefoundation.org/aboutus_directions.asp[/url]

The swab in the mouth test.

Not sure if they do other tests.

[QUOTE=Gherkin]Another way of summing this up is:

HJ is safer than shaking hands with someone

Kissing might get you a non-STD, and even deep kissing is almost universally regarded as safe. Small chance of bacterial STD, which are easily cured.

BBBJ is extremely safe, but if deep throated, you might catch a bacterial infection, which will be easily treated.

BBFS may catch you Herpes, HIV (but not conclusive), bacterial infections (easily treated)

CFS may catch you Herpes

BBAnal may catch you just about anything

Covered Anal is like CFS, but condoms break more often during anal, I'm told.

To me, there's a big line in between oral and FS/Anal. If sticking to oral/hand sex, just take steps to protect against bacterial infection, and you should be fine. If not, then use a condom, and stop if she's not well lubed. You may catch Herpes if you FS, covered or not. You won't catch Herpes from BBBJ.

Gherkin, but I'm not a doctor, so these are just my opinions after researching this pretty thoroughly on the internet.[/QUOTE]For your info anything with bb is not safe even bbbj there are other things other than stds you can catch.

Seenum, I think this is a useful comment to remind us all to keep an eye on the big picture. Each person will have their own tolerance to risk, whether it is from a STD or from the possibility of dying from a head injury on a bike, and so on. We won't all agree on where the line should be drawn.

Hopefully we can at least realize that it is in society's best interests to keep us as scared as possible, in order to constrain our behavior. This is why we are universally taught that "if you have sex, you'll die of aids." Helping people get over this gross distortion is much easier in the age of the Internet, thank goodness.

If there's something specific you had in mind, please bring it out and let's discuss it. This board has been very helpful in bringing forward new opinions, but specific information might be more useful.

Gherkin

[QUOTE=Seenum]For your info anything with bb is not safe even bbbj there are other things other than stds you can catch.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Gherkin]Seenum, I think this is a useful comment to remind us all to keep an eye on the big picture. Each person will have their own tolerance to risk, whether it is from a STD or from the possibility of dying from a head injury on a bike, and so on. We won't all agree on where the line should be drawn.

Hopefully we can at least realize that it is in society's best interests to keep us as scared as possible, in order to constrain our behavior. This is why we are universally taught that "if you have sex, you'll die of aids." Helping people get over this gross distortion is much easier in the age of the Internet, thank goodness.

If there's something specific you had in mind, please bring it out and let's discuss it. This board has been very helpful in bringing forward new opinions, but specific information might be more useful.

Gherkin[/QUOTE]I'm not a doctor either but remember bacteria can be stored in mucous membranes and mucus itself. And there are a lot of nasty bacteria out there but i'm just a hypocrite just look at my post I have done my share of bb.

[QUOTE=Gherkin]Another way of summing this up is:

HJ is safer than shaking hands with someone

Kissing might get you a non-STD, and even deep kissing is almost universally regarded as safe. Small chance of bacterial STD, which are easily cured.

BBBJ is extremely safe, but if deep throated, you might catch a bacterial infection, which will be easily treated.

BBFS may catch you Herpes, HIV (but not conclusive), bacterial infections (easily treated)

CFS may catch you Herpes

BBAnal may catch you just about anything

Covered Anal is like CFS, but condoms break more often during anal, I'm told.

To me, there's a big line in between oral and FS/Anal. If sticking to oral/hand sex, just take steps to protect against bacterial infection, and you should be fine. If not, then use a condom, and stop if she's not well lubed. You may catch Herpes if you FS, covered or not. You won't catch Herpes from BBBJ.

Gherkin, but I'm not a doctor, so these are just my opinions after researching this pretty thoroughly on the internet.[/QUOTE]I've always believed you couldn't get Herpes from ibbbjs, at least that's what I was taught. I believed that herpes simplex-a (oral) and herpes complex (genital) were two different viruses that had similarities. Recently I've read that oral herpes can be transmitted to genitalia, but I'm still not convinced or positive of this info.

Visited Lavander this weekend. Used some of the advice posted here.

I declined the TS (as I have before) but had the provider wash me standing up, she used the pump soap instead of the bar soap and I told her no community scruber, she used her hands, actually very nice washing my dong and balls, got my pole pointing. she did not touch my brown eye, so I washed there.

The reason I declined the TS is I don't think it's a good idea to lay on my stomach with my dong and balls on that wet, sometimes cold, plastic, meldew looking bed. What might I pick up on that TS bed? Even if it harmless, I don't like the thought of my boys up rubbing around there where every one elses boy's lay. Do they ever clean that thing? And if so, how offten.

I also asked to go shower as soon as we finished the deed and I caught my breath (was good sex) to wash the boys down. She said let wash up together, so she washed up with me too, kinda nice actually. I was temped to use the listerene as I read, but thought it would burn and she would think I am strange, so I just washed up good with the pump soap.