Prostitution and Law Enforcement

Pokey, Hey no disrespect intended for Tang. It just might quiet his detractors a bit if he would mention the name of the software. I enjoy his excellent reports. Besides there are some guys on the Patterson, New Jersey board who might like the software to check out DeeUncola. I wonder if Dee and CJ might be related?

Second, Not to defend CJ here, but I think in all his posts he's mentioned using a hustler only once. I would ride into TJ with him, have a beer or two in Adelita's or whatever it's called, and then have some fun. For someone who has never been in Mexico, I've heard there's some places to avoid, some places to see, and having a buddy along to BS with and exchange stories with over a beer certainly doesn't sound dangerous to me.

Well said, Civ2000.

Pokey -- Spitbol-386/Snobol? Are you kidding? That's like saying you can uncover accounting errors with Cobol. A compiler that does wonderful character string manipulation is not linguistic analysis. (I presume you're joking about your "analysis," as that was clearly just an ad hominem attack: "Having two names?!?"LOL!) And if GT didn't besmirch anyone real, why's he worrying about being called a liar by some imaginary character? Uh-oh -- you want to meet him. Sounds like you must be deep cover LE to me...

Joe,
I can tell by your writing you have a high I.Q. I wish I could write so elegantly. I don't know you, but I would venture to guess you quit the force Cop/Jail because of your intelligence. You didn't believe that crap and brain wash techniques they use on young recuits.

Why do you stick up for C.J. Do you not see anything wrong with an ex L.E. breaking the law doing S.W.'s. and bragging about it on a website site, that L.E. watches.

Tell me something, did your father when he was a cop, go out and do S.G's, if you don't know ask your Mom, a wife always knows.( how I don't know how) Then go out and brag about it!!
It just doesn't happen.

I too had a family member as a LAPD, a little step brother. I watched in horror how he changed. He worked for a short time in the skid roll area of L.A. a hot area for SW's years back. I use to work near that area at the time. He would have busted if I was doing anything, no questions asked. Thank god he quit the force.
But, once a cop always a cop, if he see's somthing going down, he jumps in to help, he would never do anything to embarrass the force.

You commented on comformity a few post back. I wonder are you aware of the classic social study by Lambardo Sanford Univ 1971.
They got two groups of students, and made one group prison guards and the other group inmates. They had to abort the study because the groups really took on the rolls and turned satanically.

I think that happens all too often to cops, thats why the FBI takes trainees out of their element and family, and always puts them in a new city, for the metamorphosis to take effect.

I know cops are just following orders, but they learn to enjoy busting "johns" and destoying their lives. I just can't embrace vice cops.

Its getting worst now, for the monger. You can now get busted and get your car taken away from you, just by cruising by an area too much. The L. E. just tramples all over your rights.

Hey, I can't even get a good safe lap dance anymore if Ashcroft has his way. Instead of using the Patriot act to get terrorists, the Ashcroft is using it go after Cheatahs strip joint in Las Vegas and San Diego. Goverment may now go after us for web surfing by merely telling a judge anywhere that the spying is relevant to an investigation. ( maybe thats why C.J. is collecting his database, maybe he is FBI, DEA, CIA, or full of BS) I just don't know.

I think the police should stop putting the scare into mongers, because they like pussy.
I guess it fun to bust an attracted sexy often naked women with dangerous breasts, that can provide preasure, then to go after big bad criminals that hurt people and have guns.

Civ:

Interestng post.

You don't have to have a hateful attitude towards LE to be a criminal on any level (although I've heard it helps in some cases). Because I engage in the same activity you do I'm a walking contradiction because I'm not like YOU? 'Cmon, you're smarter than that.

My le days date back to 1985 so a lot may have changed and apparently it has but some thngs have NOT. I certainly could use a refresher on current law but I'm really not THAT interested. While I still have friends in low places, drinking buddies really, I'm too old for the LE game. Better left to the young'ns.

The benefit of my experience might not be such a benefit at all but I've managed to use my wits and hard won experience to avoid and get out of certain situations that I'm sure I could not have otherwise.

My advice to others was intended to help minimize the risk of getting busted, not to outsmart LE as you stated because you and I know they read the board and they know the score. I'm not sharing intel on criminal activity, we're not robbing banks, killing people, stealing cars or engaging in destructive behavior exept perhaps to ourselves; we're mongering guys here and me being one wanted to help out where I could. How this becomes

"... gives advice on how to outsmart law enforcement. It would be like supporting the war in Iraq and supporting the troops, and then posting in an Iraqi board on the soldiers tactics and how to circumvent their plans. Sorry John, but I don't think LE would consider an ex-cop who thinks nothing about breaking the law and gives advice over the internet on how to thwart their efforts to control prostitution a friend of theirs.

is beyond me. Isn't it obvious that I have disagreements with the fact that prostitution is illegal. I think it's a lame law and is a terrible waste of resources etc etc. I honestly don't think is rises to the level you describe though Civ.

I can just as easily refrain from giving advice and, from this moment on I shall. Clearly it was a mistake to admit to being ex-LE.

The fact is that I am not le at this time (I do drive a Crown Vic P71 though, had it since new-wouldn't own any other type). I've owned my business since 1995 and been in the private sector since, as I stated earlier 1985. Much safer out here most of the time.

I guess if we look close enough we'll find what looks like contradictions in everyone's posts. I'd be happy to address each perceived contradiction as It was certainly not my intent to post conflicting or mis-leading data and I would actually appreciate hearing about it and having the opportunity to respond either by PM or in this forum. Perfection has not been one of my claims (although I've been told that I am very very close and my mom would vigorously assert that point on my behalf).

The one thing in this forum I am NOT however is a LIAR.

GT should not only post the name of the S/ware program but also the actual "Identities" I am "using" to post on this board.

I also think others should demand the same lest they become a target of his IQ. We can easily verify his claim but he won't post the ID's because he lied and he knows it.

If you're smart enought to find what you say are contradictions in my posts, then your must surely see this as well.

I've also known my share of cops who should never have made it. Some are in jail as I write this post. Just like every other profession. I have definite opinions about it, better left unshared at this time. Wherever I saw that kind of behaviour I was saddened because I had different ideas about why people become policemen. Call me an idealist if you like, and perhaps I am but again I have a bit more experience at this stuff that you.

I know many good men and women who did a lot of honest and good work in the field. So I am unshakable in my opinions in that regard previous comments not withstanding.

I am not stupid about it however and I understand that everyday some cops do nasty things. It's a real shame but wholesale condemnation of a group because of the actions of a few is juvenile but that seems almost silly to suggest in this forum so it tells me that maybe I belong to the wrong group and should just do the big "log off" forget about it- find another forum or just lurk from here on out.

Well, you can forget about that. Country John is here to stay.

Say what you want in this very liberal forum. I've read some very interesting posts, some of the best reading I've seen in a while in any open forum.

The lying about me having multiple IDs however is a different story. There is no sense of fair play that involves lying and GT is a liar.

We can hurl insults all day long. We can challenge contradictions which is really a good thing. Outright lying is another thing. I don't know about you guys but it should not be considered acceptable behaviour in this arena. Why do you accept it so easily here- am I missing something?

The only pattern GT sees is the one through those "fantasy" glasses of his, probably the same ones that tell him he has 144 IQ.

And one more thing, if you have a specific issue or item you would like to call me on, then be specific. I'll gladly answer and I won't lie.

I'd like to hook up and share a beer - I'll buy. The one thing you won't need to concern yourself with is dealing with a liar (except for the ones with the big tits - jeez Civ, you're on your own there mate).

And one more thing, I'm not letting it go. As long as I have the strength to turn on the computer, log on and type I'll be calling GT on his lies. He's (or she's) the one who will end it by either putting up or admitting. So far he's done neither so to borrow a phrase from his posts, I'm "calling it like I see it."

And one more thing, have a safe and happy new year.

Be Safe and BE NICE

Yours FORFUCKINGEVER
Country John

PS: I'll be in TJ next Thursday morning (early) and will hit the alley around 1 in the afternoon until about 5PM. PM me if you can make it.

Country John Quote from 12/30: "is beyond me. Isn't it obvious that I have disagreements with the fact that prostitution is illegal. I think it's a lame law and is a terrible waste of resources etc etc. I honestly don't think is rises to the level you describe though Civ."

Country John quote from this thread on 12/22:

"You have no idea what you are talking about yet you go on and on like some huge injustice has been done to you. Somebody made you behave because you couldn't behave yourself and now you're gonna flame the cops on a public forum -wow.

The LE who read these posts know exactly how to treat you when they CATCH you man. After reading the shit you post, if I were you I would not wonder anymore about why LE carries on the way they do when they catch you. You deserve EVERY bit and maybe more. Their view of mongerers is influenced, among other things by what you write here and if you don't give a shit about it then why the hell are you posting it?

Yeah I'm EX LE and I am damn proud of it. The best you can do is post some half wit panty waist dilettante milk toast fucking brain fart about how terrible everything is and how miserable the cops are. Well FUCK YOU. Maybe we should turn everything over to you right? Let you run it right? Sure. You wouldn't make it.

Next time you see vice grinding some poor mongerers face into a video camera on COPS or Channel 7, give yourself a big pat on the back son because YOU probably had something to do with it asshole. You just don't get the message. " END CJ QUOTE

And this guy claims he never contradicts himself?

Look, I'll say it one last time. As far as I'm concerned, he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. I do not know with any absolute certainty what he's up to. It is just my opinion, it's not as he presents himself. The rest is up to your imagination. If you feel safe meeting with this guy after reading the above, then do so! If not, then don't!

GETTINGTANG~!

Yeah Country John you would never give advice on how to outsmart the cops at their own game or try to thrwart the efforts of a sting operation or would you? The following is a quote of one of your Anaheim posts. Enjoy guys: its some of the best fiction I've ever read. Civ2K

Are you with me so far? Good.

Now, you are faced with one of these here what you call one of them there dilemas. How do you know if you are going to be busted?

Have a tape recorder (really cheap) rolling in the car for your protection. "Hi Baby, I am not a law enforcement officer . .are you a law enforcement officer or are you employed by any law enforcement agency?" "Are you on duty at this time? " "Do you have police identification?" "Are you here for the possible purpose of arresting me for solicitation?" "Are you now working as part of an undercover sting operation?" "Are you about to offer sex for money?" Go ahead, don't be scared. . .ask the fucking questions.

She might say (laughingly) "Do I look like a law enforcement officer?" You say : "THAT IS NOT AN ANSWER are you a law enforcement officer or are you employed by any law enforcement agency?" "Are you on duty at this time? " "Do you have police identification?" "Are you here for the possible purpose of arresting me for solicitation?" "Are you now working as part of an undercover sting operation?" "Are you about to offer sex for money?"

If she states that the is in fact NOT a LEO, and specifically says no (on tape) to the questions then mate - it's ON. Refer to your "payment" as a "donation to help her out." You are NOT "paying her to have sex." If she bullshits you and then busts you, then you've got it on tape and your attorney will take it from there, and he should have a shit load of fun with it.

Tell her you want to drive for a bit but you will take her back to where you picked her up. If she doesn't want to play, get her OUT of the car.

DO NOT EVER EVER EVER discuss money or sex until you drive at LEAST 1/2 mile away from where you picked her up and YOU DON'T EVER EVER start the dialog. Make the SW read the menu, tell her to grab your nuts etc etc all BEFORE discussing donations for the betterment of her education.

CJ, Don't get me wrong. You seem like a nice guy. I just see some newby reading your advice and seeing that it is written by an ex-LE and thinking that such tactics will work for him. I have no problem with anyone giving advice but realize the consequences of bad advice are enormous. If I knew my advice could cost a monger his job, wife, car ,etc, I would be very careful to dispense only that which I knew to be true. But then again according to you the monger gets only what he deserves--even if its because he trusted you.

Civ2K

Pokey -- personally (and maybe this is just the ex-catholic in me) I don't see any big deal, as you and others do, about someone who's an ex-cop deciding he's going to hire hookers. Yes, it's against the law. So what? Don't the rest of us make the same decision? If I'm an ex-McDonald's worker do I need to continue to profess my belief that the Big Mac is the pinnacle of modern civilization? ex-LE means ex -- you're no longer bound by your promise to uphold the laws. (And to be honest, there's always a double-standard anyway -- I used to be able to tell when one of my partners was high by whether or not he would catch his car keys when he tossed them in the air. Could I prove it? Nope. Would I if I could? Not unless he was putting me or someone else at risk.)

I know cops who are utter assholes. I know cops who are the nicest people in the world. I don't feel compelled to hear someone is a cop and decide which of those categories they fall into until I actually know them. I agree absolutely that the paramilitary structure encourages an "us vs. them" mentality, but so does dealing all day with people who are mostly not terribly nice folks (and I'm referring here to criminals!) My father, a cop, used to say that he needed interaction with his family and neighbors to remind him that most people were good and nice to be around, because that wasn't his work experience. He struggled with it at times, though he was pretty good about keeping things straight and wasn't one of the authority-freak kinds, but I think that's a trap many fall into. No, he didn't go do street girls -- but isn't the question you're asking really whether or not that's ok for anyone who's married to do? That's a different issue entirely than whether the guy happens to be a cop.

Me? I was just a young pup who had a job for a short time, basically thirty years ago. Never intended to be there for long, spent half my free time reading then about philosophy, chess, and existentialism, learned a ton, and saw things that gave me nightmares for years and years and years. My time on the force was one of the better learning experiences of my life, not only because of things I saw but because of things I learned about myself. I learned, for example, that I've got the same gene flaw that you say your step-brother has -- I tend to get involved when something's going down, smartly or not.

As far as defending CJ, well, mostly I'm not a fan of online gang fights. To me the guy's been pretty straightforward about where he's coming from -- you can like it or not, but that doesn't mean it all has to devolve into conspiracy theory, personal attacks, or that we need to somehow hold this guy up to a higher standard than anyone else. I mean -- why is he a SOB for for being involved in PFP and nobody else here is? And though I think GT is an intelligent guy who has a lot of good things to say, I also think, based on reading lots of his posts in the Thailand section and elsewhere, that he's someone who loves to get into personal arguements on this site, who revels in defending himself against "unjust" attacks. That's fine, we all need to express out machismo, and I hope he gets what he wants out of it, but I don't always feel it's fair to the other posters involved in the equation.

In terms of your point about mongers and cops enjoying busting them, well, I don't think that runs terribly counter to one of CJ's points -- cops, who basically see themselves as doing their jobs and thereby not deserving of personal attack, do tend to react badly to being berated or bitched at by people who have broken the law but don't feel they should be arrested. Who, in any job, wants to be called names? How does that not get personal? CJ's advice, which I agree with, is to be polite and respectful and that will minimize your trouble and maximize your changes of getting off. Argue and you're simply toast -- you're disagreeing with the cop's judgement and authority and you're simply going to go down.

I agree that we're in a more and more repressive society -- but I think we're better off looking at Ashcroft, at the local ordinances that impound cars (a fairly recent tactic) and put the faces of mongers into public scrutiny, etc., than we are saying it's this or that cop's fault. Individual cops don't set policy on whether or not your car's going to be seized. Amen, absolutely, on your comments on the so-called Patriot act and it's real attack on individual freedom, but that's the right battle ground, not some grunt cop who gets called on to enforce it.

GT, I don't see the contradiction, sorry. In the first instance, CJ stated his personal views on the law. In the second, he described what can happen if you're caught by LE. How is that a contradiction? I happen to agree with him -- the laws are bullshit, but if you're gonna taunt the cops, you're gonna end up paying the price. That's not a contradiction; that's sage advice.

Civ2000, again, I agree with you. Tape recorders are all about how you prove your case once you've been busted. That means you've already lost. Bottom line -- the best way to protect yourself from being busted is to have your paranoia radar on high, and to run for cover if you're at all nervous. I've never had an instance in picking up a SW where I was the first one mentioning sex, price, etc. And I always ask for a show before we get serious.

Joe Zop Quote: "GT, I don't see the contradiction, sorry. In the first instance, CJ stated his personal views on the law. In the second, he described what can happen if you're caught by LE. How is that a contradiction? I happen to agree with him -- the laws are bullshit, but if you're gonna taunt the cops, you're gonna end up paying the price. That's not a contradiction; that's sage advice." END QUOTE

Um with ALL due respect, maybe you need to reread what he wrote. In the second portion of his quotes, he is not indicating "what can happen if caught". no-way! No-how! He is yelling about us dirty rotten mongers getting what we deserve! Any other interpretation of these quotes, would simply be a misinterpretation, or attempt at changing the meaning behind them. I think everyone here can read for themselves and judge this one quite easily. Remember, you ought to know, when someone gets heated, as he obviously was, often the real turth is exposed. I think this was a classic case of such an event. He was very pissed when he wrote that!

Bottom line, the guy has an agenda, true, I'm not sure what it is, but it's not much about true mongering in the sense we all know it as.

JZ and others, I don't have a problem at all with LE or ex-LE or even a judge picking up SW's. I'd be a hypocrite to say otherwise. This isn't the basis for my complaint against CJ at all. My point is that he is not the friend of LE he says he is. I doubt the San Diego Police Department would hire him as their public relations guy. It's okay to feel anyway you want to about the police. The majority of Americans respect the police. It's just that if you're going on-line being a cheerleader if you will; acting like you're being paid by the police to defend them; and then breaking laws and encouraging prostitution your actions certainly aren't matching your words. If CJ were to ask the cops how he could show them respect I'll bet they would tell him to start by obeying the law.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I believe CJ reveles in disharmony and disagreement. He's had similiar arguments on numerous threads of this board. Knowing that a majority of mongers dislike the police he makes it a point to state his opinion; usually devoid of any useful mongering infomation. I've never heard him admit he was wrong, even when all evidence points against him. He will submit rebuttal after rebuttal even when he knows he's wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if he made up being ex-LE just to instigate more disharmony. He thrives off this sort of thing.

I would welcome a real cop to this board anytime. A guy who could give us current and useful information that could benefit our picking up SW's and give us legimate and up-to-date infomation about avoiding arrest. I respect a cop who would pick up a SW because he would be risking more than the most of us., i.e the embarrassment of being discovered and the subsequent loss of employment. But unfortunately CJ's advice is to be ignored, which is all our loss because his information (if he is really ex-LE) could really be a bonus to this board.

Civ2000 Very well said. I agree, I too would like to see a real LE officer post to this forum.

I think the level of embarrassment is in the eye of the beholder. I would not even ridicule, or laugh if a cop were busted for solicitation. Not at all. I would simply say to myself, this is just another guy with a set of balls like the rest of us trying to get off, period! Nothing more, nothing less. Does somehow the fact he wears a badge 8-10 hours per day make him less of a male then the rest of us? I think not.

The most likely scenario to take place if a cop were busted in a sting, he would likely be let go by the other cops! Look at traffic citations, they do not get them. If a cop is pulled over by another cop, they never ticket them. This is a well known fact. Something I'm sure JZ and CJ can both confirm! In most cases that benefit even extends to their immediate family

So my point here is that cops are guys just like the rest of us. I'm totally willing to wager money, that cops engage in P4P at the same ratio as the rest of society!

Maybe we should all form a little petition here to get prostitution regulated, but legal across the USA. Right here in this forum. More then half the people across this great land, think it should be legal anyhow! I'm not for allowing the trade to go unchecked or unregulated, but allowing designated areas, or providers who work indoors. call girls, escorts, massage parlors, should all be able to be legally licensed and perform their business.

This BS about John TV, taking people's cars, notifying their wives, getting them fired from their jobs, is NUTS!

And in closing here, I don't know how most of you mongers view prostitution. To me it's a simple act of sex. It's like going out for a hamburger anymore. Not a big deal! We men and the girls who service us, like what we do. We mean no one harm by it. It's nothing more then a tag football game to most of us.

I had a girl (P4P) just the other night get pissed at me for cuming too fast. I told her I thought she wanted me to hurry and finish, she seriously got pissed and almost slapped me and said, she wanted to cum too and was getting close! Many of these girls really do enjoy what they do. Some will view it as.............." If I'm going to have sex and get paid for, I might as well enjoy myself too" I have said before, about half the girls I have been with over the years, fall in this category. They have learned to enjoy the open, frequent sexual encounters! But hey then again, it could just be me they are into :)

GETTINGTANG!

GettingTang, I don't know about your IQ, but you do seem to have a lot of time on your hands.

We are here to discuss mongering, not the personality of retired cop who has turned to mongering in TJ. I wish that you would devote as much effort to uncovering and reporting on the best chicas in TJ as you do discussing your fascination with Country John.

Some of the stuff posted here is either unsubstantiated ("CJ is posting under multiple aliases and I can prove it"), or just wacky ("CJ wants to create a database of mongers"). Even if you are right about CJ's motives, by making wild unsubstantiated statements you simply look like a rebuffed admirer of the guy.

With all due respect, GT, I believe what CJ wrote was not directed at "mongers" but at [i]you[/i] and a couple of others, and was a reaction to your jibes. And I'm sorry, but he's only being accurate -- if you think police are going to treat two people with the same care and respect when one of them is polite and respectful and the other calls them every kind of hypocrite and bastard, then you're living in a dream world. If they catch someone who they know has been taunting them, yes, they're gonna make sure that guy's face gets a close-up grind into a video camera. That's just human nature, a little bit of instant revenge, and to make it something other than that is ridiculous.

I happen to think that particular post of CJ's was unfortunate, and probably written in anger, but it's also something that was provoked.

You're right, GT -- police usually won't ticket each other, though that depends on the situation. (For example, a clearly at-fault accident or high-profile situation will probably still lead to a ticket, as will repeat offenses.) They'll often let each other walk from misdemeanor-type situations, get each other rides home if they are driving after drinking, etc. Technically that shouldn't happen, of course, but in a lot of ways that's no different that the kind of professional courtesy you see in other jobs -- giving things to colleagues at cost, etc.

Civ2000, to be clear -- I said that GettingTang is a guy who tends to get into personal arguments on this board, not Country John (though that may be his m.o. as well; I've not been party to any other than this one and reading its genesis, so I don't know.) GT knows I've got no personal issues with him per se, as though we've disagreed on things in places I usually try to stay civil, but bombast does tend to be part of his weaponry, and he's gotten into minor firefights with some of the more veteran posters in the LOS area (rather silly ones, imho.)

GT, your petition idea isn't a bad one, though politically I think it's got a snowball's chance at this time in the US, particularly if it comes from a board like this as opposed to a more neutral one such as a social service group. Might be good to put a model together, get a bunch of signatures, but it would have no real force. I think the real battleground is local -- going after measures such as the ones you mention, trying to convince a local governing council to adopt, say, Canada's model, etc. If economic benefits could be established (sin tax) then we might see the same ripple effect we've seen with casinos. The downside, of course, is that it would require mongers to stand up in public in favor of such moves -- something far more risky than meeting someone else is a bar in another country.

GT still hasn't posted his proof of my so-called "other identies" so he is now trying to divert everyone's attention.

I guess it's OK for him to accuse another and then not be held accountable. Where is the proof GT? How come you have not posted it? What is the excuse of the day?

He reminds me of various times at social gatherings when others learned of my job. In many cases the conversation quickly turned to that "ticket I didn't deserve."

If you are driving your $80,000 vehicle around mongering and you get grabbed, you SHOULD do everything you can to protect your case and your position. I'm not saying it's going to work but one thing I've learned in James Bond training was to KEEP THE ODDS IN MY FAVOR. Of course the advice I posted should be ignored if you feel that it's bogus or silly - to each his own. If you can afford that 80K vehicle, you can afford an attorney and he's going to need all the help he can get. Do you have a disagreement with that?

JZ is right. I was quite pissed when I wrote the post and he is also right that perhaps it was unfortunate that it made the board at all. He is also right that if you have a bad attitude you will be processed accordingly and that holds true anywhere, especially Mexico.

It would be obvious to a blind man that the general consensus among forum members is that the hate flow towards LE is proper and just. LE would be somewhat influenced by that IMHO and they would exact some instant revenge when the cameras are rolling -wouldn't you?

I ticketed a cop once, my TO was in the car, and the violation was very obvious and dangerous. I would have ticketed him anyway. Most of the time however, tickets (it's traffic man) were not handed out to LE. Call it one of the "perks" of the profession. Most of the time the vioations were very minor. Just because the person is LE doesn't mean they have the right to endanger the lives of others, it runs contrary to purpose. I don't care who they are, a mistake is one thing but flagrant disregard for safety despite world class training is quite another.

I could share lots of stories but why bother? Who's interested? What's the point? It would only waste space.

GT has a track record of challenging others and now he can add to that his lies. That should speak volumes to anyone who may have thought he was being straight or "calling it as he sees it." He can't be trusted.

Where is the outrage? Why are other members not demanding he put up or own up? Is this OK with you? Do you even care? Are we not to take this seriously?

If GT doesn't like me (and I can't imagine why that would be, I am a nice guy) then he can call me all the names in the book, I can understand that but to attack throught lies is quite another story.

Then he refers to us mongerers as "dirty rotten" people. Are you a "dirty rotten" person?

Not all mongerers are "dirty rotten" as some would have you believe. Some most certainly are, like the ones who lie but I am confident that for the most part, mongerers with the sophistication to get on this forum, organize and practice the hobby with some honor are anything but "rotten." "Dirty Rotten" people get what they deserve in any arena.

Perhaps members can relay any experiences hooking up with "dirty rotten" members from this forum. That would be an interesting post.

GT may have self esteem issues which would not be at all surprising given the fact that integrity also appears to be an major issue. Best thing to do when you're caught in a lie is to admit it and restore some integrity. Until that happens, even though he might have something meaningful to say, you will always have to consider the integrity of the author and you will NEVER be able to trust him fully.

If an active LEO were to post in this forum, it would be simply an opportunity for people to again engage in the kind of behavior that made some members of this forum famous. I doubt that any serious dialogue would take place. It would be one massive flaming session after another - a complete and utter waste of time.

People like GT are not capable of assuming or considering another viewpoint. That's why we might see him on an up-coming episode of COPS.

I am encouraged to see that now there are admissions to the effect that maybe the police are not all bad. Well, of course.

I'm not an applicant for a PR position with any department. Those days are long gone. I am a dedicated and conscientious mongerer who has respect for the poice, respect for the girls and respect for members (who are not liars). I respect the police because I know what they face everyday and contrary to popular belief they DO more than chase mongerers. May God watch over them and protect them all. I respect the girls because they are people too, I respect members who treat not only the girls with dignity and respect but other members as well.

Freedom of speech does not include the freedom to injure through lies. Simple to distort the constitution when it doesn't mean anything to you anyway.

Again, if there is a specific issue that I can address in a previous post, let me know, so far you are shooting blanks.

Country John

Hey Fellas,

Boy this has been one hell of an argument we have wintessed. I think the bottom line is that we all have something in common, which is probably what attracted us to this forum. I personally don't find anything wrong with mongering unless the girl is doing it against her will, which I have yet to encounter. I personally don't like doing it in the US coz of risk factor, high prices, high number of hardcore/take all your money women etc. Unfortunately it is illegal in most places over here but I wouldn't worry about supposed LE in here trying to bust anybody, unless of course you are giving the details of everything you do.

I'm not exactly sure what you guys hope to accomplish by proving that the other is a liar but CJ made some good points which I will take into account and move on, and will also take some of the good points that GT posted and move on. The rest I'll just discard coz they are of no use to me.

I'd hope that if you guys cannot try to make mongering a more enjoyable and safe experience for one another, then at least keep your debates a bit civilized and save your energy for a lovely lady.

PS I would suggest some of you guys give Africa a try, coz there are some lovely, accomodating and very very friendly ladies out there who looooooove foreign men. Did I mention that the prices are super cheap? $200 over there could last from 3 days to a week easy!! HIV is everywhere in the world so no need to stress that you protect yourselves properly.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!