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[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2945564]Anyone else get a stuffy nose after taking vitamin V?
It's annoying, especially after playing with a new baby since the stuffy nose tends to make them think I might be sick.[/QUOTE]Smelly,
I often get a stuffy nose as well. On rare occasions I also get what I call "blue vision", where everything looks slightly bluish. All these are a small price to pay, in my opinion, for being able to fuck for hours.
Scott.
[QUOTE=FScott;2943669]I also have found that taking it on an empty stomach with a glass of grapefruit or orange juice boosts the effect. I get mine from All Day Chemist, an Indian pharmacy, and find that the intensity can vary from pill to pill. I assume this is just a quality control issue. Overall, I've been extremely pleased with their generic V.[/QUOTE]I often find that these pills don't work very well, but maybe it's because I tend to take them on a full stomach. I often have a meal before meeting someone at the FC and I take the pill shortly before the meeting starts. (My dates are typically confined to hotels, since I can't take the girls out to meals because of my marital status.) My concern is that if I took them before I've eaten, they will have worn off by the time they're needed. Is this not a problem?
[QUOTE=GenevaGuy;2943334]I use JCM pharmacy. From India, they are a reliable source (unlike most online pharmacies), they are responsive to emails, many ways to pay and I did get the stuff I ordered within 15-16 days via USPS. My friends have ordered viagara, etc from them. They work fine, no problems. They do have testosterone products.
GG.[/QUOTE]I've been getting mine from a domestic source, and they are very expensive. However, they ship FedEx, and I can arrange to have them held at the FedEx location for me to pick them up here. I can't have them delivered to my home, because the reason that I am in the bowl is that my wife lost interest in sex some dozen or more years ago. They would be hard to explain. Does anyone know of a way to have them shipped in a way that would not create this problem. (I suppose I could have them shipped to my office, but I don't want something lying around the mail room addressed to me from a pharmacy, let alone one in India.) Any thoughts?
I'm thinking about taking the plunge into the SD world. I don't make a butt load of money, but I think I can swing like 500-600 a month. Is it going to be worth it and what amount of effort does it take?
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You will likely have a difficult time fing=ding a true SB for 600 meh. I had one about 5 yrs ago. My ATF. I even cut the cash out at one point to test test her and she stuck it out. Later wanted more of a relationship but she was 23 I was 45 and she wanted kids etc and I did not not so it was time to part. Anyway. You may find the needle in the haystack. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuut. Its tough.
[QUOTE=TennisStud90;2946617]I'm thinking about taking the plunge into the SD world. I don't make a butt load of money, but I think I can swing like 500-600 a month. Is it going to be worth it and what amount of effort does it take?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=TennisStud90;2946617]I'm thinking about taking the plunge into the SD world. I don't make a butt load of money, but I think I can swing like 500-600 a month. Is it going to be worth it and what amount of effort does it take?[/QUOTE]I've been wondering this myself, and I believe that 500-600 is more of a "monger" budget, not a SD budget for an exclusive SB. You can estimate it. According to what I've read here, the going rate is 200-300 per date for girls in the mid-Atlantic area. Then, in order to be meaningful to her you should see her once a week. There's an element of romance in this game, or at least quasi-romance, and I think most girls want to see her BF at least once per week. If you see her less often it might work if she is not exclusive to you; she has other SD. But there's a fine line between a pro and a SB with multiple SD. It all depends on what you want and what kind of connection you want. You also have to factor in the overhead costs of the date: dinner, entertainment, hotel, travel, etc. In my opinion, excluding the overhead, the minimum is 800 to 1200 per month. Oh, and they love to go shopping, too. There are probably exceptions, but I think they are hard to find, depend on chemistry, and admittedly some guys are better at this than others. For 2000/ month I bet you can have a really good time. Not that I'm a big expert, but I think I know how to estimate costs and I have been reading the forum.
On the other hand, maybe you can work out a monthly cost and see her as often as you like. I have no experience with that arrangement, though.
It took 2+ months, but sticking to my guns and patience has paid off. The SB referenced below is back. Turns out the "better deal" included some strings that she was uncomfortable with. We will see where this goes.
Wish me luck! M.
[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;2846425]I've seen a very cute and sweet girl twice now and things were going great!! She text me today apologizing for being out of contact. Let me know she really liked me and enjoyed our time together, but because of her financial situation she had to accept a higher offer.
I expressed disappointment, but wished her well and hoped that the arrangement met her expectations. Let her know she can contact me again if things don't work out as planned.
I think she expected me to try and counter and was surprised I didn't. I won't be surprised if she contacts me again. There is a good chance the offer wasn't real or they won't deliver on their offer. We will see.[/QUOTE]
Set up a po box and have them shipped there. I also remember someone posting that UPS has a similar setup where you can have things shipped to, and held at a UPS store until you pick them up.
Easy enough to justify to the SO (e. G. If you have rental properties then you don't want tenants to know where you live, any other business purpose, etc).
[QUOTE=MoonlightGam;2946514]I often find that these pills don't work very well, but maybe it's because I tend to take them on a full stomach. I often have a meal before meeting someone at the FC and I take the pill shortly before the meeting starts. (My dates are typically confined to hotels, since I can't take the girls out to meals because of my marital status.) My concern is that if I took them before I've eaten, they will have worn off by the time they're needed. Is this not a problem?
I've been getting mine from a domestic source, and they are very expensive. However, they ship FedEx, and I can arrange to have them held at the FedEx location for me to pick them up here. I can't have them delivered to my home, because the reason that I am in the bowl is that my wife lost interest in sex some dozen or more years ago. They would be hard to explain. Does anyone know of a way to have them shipped in a way that would not create this problem. (I suppose I could have them shipped to my office, but I don't want something lying around the mail room addressed to me from a pharmacy, let alone one in India.) Any thoughts?[/QUOTE]
It is a small price to pay, which is why my "allergies" never seem to get better, regardless of the season!
[QUOTE=FScott;2945971]Smelly,
I often get a stuffy nose as well. On rare occasions I also get what I call "blue vision", where everything looks slightly bluish. All these are a small price to pay, in my opinion, for being able to fuck for hours.
Scott.[/QUOTE]
I've never taken vitamin c. Sounds like I need to consider a second script. Is there a reason you mix, instead of taking one vs. Another?
[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2945901]When I need a real performance I do a mix of cialis 5 mg and V 15 mg (1/3 of 50 mg tablet). No side effects other than having a loaded missle for 1-3 days.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=TennisStud90;2946617]I'm thinking about taking the plunge into the SD world. I don't make a butt load of money, but I think I can swing like 500-600 a month. Is it going to be worth it and what amount of effort does it take?[/QUOTE]If there's chemistry and an attraction level you can make it work. Had a SB that wanted 2 K on her profile. I started out with cash on hand per meet, and eventually it was just regular dating and normal bf / gf stuff. Most normal boyfriends can't afford to spend a few hundred bucks a month. If your in decent shape and have a bit of humor and charm you'll be fine. The true SBs aren't looking for you to be there sole provider. They're looking for good times. My rule of thumb is to not make them a sex object and for them to no treat me like a wallet. It may take a few M&Gs to find one that's worth spending the time on. Once cash is in hand and you're open about finances and goals these relationships move quickly. Dating an SB for 2 months exclusively is the equivalent of 2 years of civi dating. The sugar you pay or money you spend is enjoyable for both parties. Whatever you do make it fun. Be indifferent to their flakiness. These girls are early 20's. It's expected.
[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2947267]I've never taken vitamin c. Sounds like I need to consider a second script. Is there a reason you mix, instead of taking one vs. Another?[/QUOTE]The small does of V is for immediacy and more of a backup in case things happen. The Cialis last for up to 36 hours. It's more like an insurance mix. I don't take them regularly. If I'm off with my diet and exercise they come in handy.
There are all sorts of people on the SD sites looking for different things with different expectations. Surprisingly, there are plenty of younger women who are attracted to older men that are in good shape, confident, secure and experienced with a good sense of humor. If you can show them a drama free good time and mentorship, some won't expect much above that. If it becomes more of a bf / gf relationship they will expect more. Of an emotional bond, commitment, exclusivity and time.
It all depends on what you have to offer and what you are willing to do for them.
Remember that your competition is insecure, unestablsihed, selfish and jealous young men. You need to differentiate yourself.
[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2948309]If there's chemistry and an attraction level you can make it work. Had a SB that wanted 2 K on her profile. I started out with cash on hand per meet, and eventually it was just regular dating and normal bf / gf stuff. Most normal boyfriends can't afford to spend a few hundred bucks a month. If your in decent shape and have a bit of humor and charm you'll be fine. The true SBs aren't looking for you to be there sole provider. They're looking for good times. My rule of thumb is to not make them a sex object and for them to no treat me like a wallet. It may take a few M&Gs to find one that's worth spending the time on. Once cash is in hand and you're open about finances and goals these relationships move quickly. Dating an SB for 2 months exclusively is the equivalent of 2 years of civi dating. The sugar you pay or money you spend is enjoyable for both parties. Whatever you do make it fun. Be indifferent to their flakiness. These girls are early 20's. It's expected.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;2949142]There are all sorts of people on the SD sites looking for different things with different expectations. Surprisingly, there are plenty of younger women who are attracted to older men that are in good shape, confident, secure and experienced with a good sense of humor. If you can show them a drama free good time and mentorship, some won't expect much above that. If it becomes more of a bf / gf relationship they will expect more. Of an emotional bond, commitment, exclusivity and time.
It all depends on what you have to offer and what you are willing to do for them.
Remember that your competition is insecure, unestablsihed, selfish and jealous young men. You need to differentiate yourself.[/QUOTE]The hard part is sorting out the UTR's and the GPS's from the bunch!
[QUOTE=BikeRider;2949190]The hard part is sorting out the UTR's and the GPS's from the bunch![/QUOTE]Nothing hard about this. If they have more than one sd they are on the way to utr. As far as GPS who am I to tell someone what they are worth. There is always someone who has the money to pay so if they can get it good for them. Me I just move on to the ones in my financial bracket. We call them GPS and they call us splenda or salt daddy's.
As far as a true sb cut the payments off after 6 months and see if they hang around or if they say its been real, call me when things get better for ya.
This is not rocket science.
Like everything else in life, you get better with practice.
I ask questions that determine if they care about my appearance, want something ongoing, are willing to carry on a conversation, are too focused on what's in it for them, etc. I haven't found filtering out pros, utr's, GPS syndrome and desperate "Nando 1's" to be that hard.
The greater challenge is filtering our scammers and pretenders. Scammers will say all the right things and then come up with reasons for you to send them money upfront, but I always refuse even if I think they are genuine. Pretenders either enjoy just playing or haven't decided if they actually want to go thru with it.
[QUOTE=BikeRider;2949190]The hard part is sorting out the UTR's and the GPS's from the bunch![/QUOTE]
Thank you bros for taking the time to post some very helpful info. I will remember to eat well in advance of FC and try the Wet Platinum which is guaranteed to work.
[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2943318]Had a similar problem and it caused all types of STD paranoia...[/QUOTE]In my case it was pretty clear that the foreskin got bruised due to it getting rolled up and rubbed against during intercourse!
[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2945901]When I need a real performance I do a mix of cialis 5 mg and V 15 mg (1/3 of 50 mg tablet). No side effects other than having a loaded missle for 1-3 days.[/QUOTE]I use the legit name brand pills so prescriptions are necessary. May be I'll try convincing my regular doc to write both to see which one works better!
They've always been around in one form or another, but over the last several months, across many different cities, I noticed an increase in married SBs on the SD sites. Sometimes they indicate their status accurately in their profile, sometimes not, but they usually reveal it within the first day or so of communication. I don't mean the traditional 30+ year old bored housewife with a seven year itch, I'm talking very hot 20-25 year olds (some who are barely past their honeymoon when they get the itch). There's never been a shortfall of married & cheating women on any dating site, but I don't remember encountering so many that I would otherwise be interested in as someone with SB potential.
What I don't like about them of course is the potential for drama from hubby discovering the naughty. Also, a couple of times I've researched them only to find out their age-appropriate hubby is some guy working his ass off to provide for her and make ends meet, and this brings out a sympathetic side of me that makes me not want to get involved in the situation.
What I do like about them is that the sugar is not their motivation, some aren't looking for it at all. They typically are in it for the excitement, the escape from their daily routine, and in some cases a porn-addicted hubby that doesn't fuck them often enough or show them the level of attention they'd prefer to have. They see it as sort of an upscale AM type "arrangement" where it's not so much about money as it is about simple escapism, and feeling the thrill of dating again (naturally, the terms "romance" or "intimacy" appear often in these discussions with them). The benefit for them, I have to assume, is they see an SD as someone who is less likely to be a creep or stalker (since an SD has something to lose, versus a guy that lives in his parents basement), and his financial success indicates a status higher than her current status (which appeals to most of them). I also think that they see SDs as more willing to play in secrecy, and thus safer prospects for the occasional trysts.
I've actually only taken one of these to the FC in recent weeks, and she actually wasn't an "admitted" married girl (I never asked but she has all the tell-tale signs). And honestly I will probably try to avoid them for the most part. But I do like to understand what makes women tick so I continue to interact with them about a potential meeting. I came close to meeting another one, but due to very restrictive scheduling possibilities on her part (usually a strong indication they are someone's wife), we weren't able to make it happen when I was in her city.
Anyone else noticed an increase in these? It seems like this year they are making up about 10-15% of the total girls I'm interested in meeting. It could be that the actual prevalence numbers are no higher than before, but for some reason there definitely seems to be more in the 20-25 year old bracket, with face and body that make them competitive with any unmarried SB.
Maybe the sugaring sites are being marketed more heavily with specific targeting toward young brides? Doesn't really seem to bode well for the long-term future of the family unit in this country I suppose.
One of my SBs in Greensboro NC showed me a message from an SD in Richmond (may be one of the forum brothers) that seemed on the surface to be some good bang for the buck. For POTs willing to travel within lets say a 4 hour radius he provides $1000 cash allowance plus shopping (for a minimum 2 night stay. At first that seemed like a lot of cash to drop on a SB but when I figured the SD was having the SB stay at his house without the hotel expense I could see the value of the proposal. Not counting shopping expense the net expense without the hotel nights someone like me would have to cover is about 400 a night with 2 extra advantages. One is they are "long" overnights, and second it opens the talent pool up to a 4 hours radius without committing to travel expense. You could focus on the cream of the crop that would be very motivated to pick up $ 1000 but the SD keeps the leverage on the 2 night minimum by waitng until the second morning to provide the "gift. " I happen to know the screen name so if by chance this is a proposal put out by one of the brothers feel free to PM me. If I didn't have an SO I would almost consider the approach, even with the risk of the SB coming to my house. I could set it up at a hotel and offer less but I think the magic is the 1000 number in the SBs head.
After a few years in the hobby and the past year exclusively playing in the bowl I have generally always been in the FC at least twice a week. Although there have been a few SBs I felt I could be exclusive with, including my current 19 yr old submissive nymphomaniac, I always seem to be on the prowl to have at least 2 different SBs per week. But on the flip side when I have a good SB that I spend extended hours with (dinners, overnight, etc) I start to get a bit pissy when I see them on the SA site. A good example is my current SB who I have seen weekly for the past 5 weeks. I actually "recruited" her from SA to be the third in a FMF with my previous # 1 SB. It was her first FMF but I knew she was hot so I dropped the previous SB. The first few weeks my current SB stayed off the site but this past week has been on it off and on. When I elected to bring the topic up she said it was fun for her to see what the different guys profiles were and to read their messages, followed by "you're the only one I am sleeping with. " I don't know what the real issue is for me personally, if it is not wanting to share her with other SDs or if I am taking it as a personal affront. We have already done a lot of crazy stuff in the FC and I provide a shade more than I normally do (5) but we are together for 6 to 8 hours at a time including meals out. I have talked to her about twice a week visits but her work schedule may challenge the idea. Meanwhile the hypocritical side of me is still reaching out to POTs lining up tentative M & Gs over the next week. Since I can't justify the expense of a shrink I am relying on input from the brothers. Are most of us hypocrites who prefer to create a double standard?
Max,
I am just curious, what was "the other guy's higher offer" and what was your offer?
[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;2947205]It took 2+ months, but sticking to my guns and patience has paid off. The SB referenced below is back. Turns out the "better deal" included some strings that she was uncomfortable with. We will see where this goes.
Wish me luck! M.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=StormyTuesday;2949893]Since I can't justify the expense of a shrink I am relying on input from the brothers. Are most of us hypocrites who prefer to create a double standard?[/QUOTE]The age demographic of these girls have been trained with YOLO as a fundamental philosophy, such that random hookups and cheating are a part of life, and that no relationship is forever. Their thought process continuity has been repeatedly disrupted by constant pop-up ads starting from the moment they are able to read, ads that either directly sell the promiscuous lifestyle, or that in some way use sexuality to sell their non-sex related product. This combined with other factors has created sort of a sexual ADD effect in the minds of our youth, the younger they are, the less likely they are to ever outgrow it. Other factors being things like the ubiquity of porn, mobile apps that encourage random sexual encounters, etc. It has turned them all into hunters, trolling for the next sexual fix. They cannot resist the urge to "see what's out there". They now crave the sexual variety that used to be solely the domain of the successful married guy that society used to entitle to that variety by virtue of his financial success, except the boredom sets in before they ever get started on their marriage or career due to the fast-tracking, instant-on, on-demand nature of the Internet.
So basically my advice has always been that with regard to girls we meet on any SD site, it is in our best interest to just enjoy the sex, do not form any level of attachment or sense of exclusivity, because the very fact they have labeled themselves an SB by creating a profile on these sites tells you everything you need to know about their sense of entitlement. It doesn't mean they're all bad people, I've met some very sweet SBs. I've met some that make me hum that song "If I could fly, I'd pick you up and take you into the night. " LOL. Over and over in my head. Some of them seem like relationship potential.
But I say don't do it. I think it's perfectly normal to feel bummed out if they have taken down their profile based on a discussion you've had with her (talks of exclusivity or whatever), then suddenly one day she puts it back up, but there is a solution for that feeling of being bummed which is to go and fuck one of the other SBs in your line up or keep yourself busy by searching for new ones. In the bowl, the supply curve is in your favor rather than hers, so in that game you will ultimately come out ahead.
I do wonder sometimes if one day someone will prove me wrong, and report back to this forum that they met the girl of their dreams on an SD site, have had a monogamous relationship and a couple of kids and after a decade or so are still in marital bliss. And I realize it's plausible that someone who actually finds that might never report back, so we may not know it if they exist. But every brother I've ever seen that flipped an SB into a GF of sorts always comes back with war stories about where things went wrong. Because of that fact, why ever let ourselves care enough about what one girl does to even let it get close to that stage? I've said it before, if anyone wants a GF, then sugardaddy sites aren't the place to look. If you do, consider her a temporary staffing situation of a girlfriend, and always have the next POT on the horizon. If looking for hot young girlfriend material, it would be better to find them on traditional dating sites and flip them to GF before they've discovered the bowl and full-on SB lifestyle. Identifying them early and being the first to stake your claim and indoctrinate them into age-inappropriate dating would be the key to success (but expect it to require much more work than the bowl).
Expecting honesty, integrity or loyalty from young and hot woman in itself is a stretch. Expecting it from one that has already announced her intentions and sense of entitlement by posting on a sugar dating site is even more of a stretch. So, just enjoy the game for what it's worth. There's a lot of great sex to be had out there.
I'm sure some of these SBs will make half decent wives for someone, some day, but that guy will be getting "honey-do" sex that diminishes in excitement during the first 6 months of marriage. He won't be getting hot, adventurous sex from her that equals what you're getting from her today, and it won't be easy for him to remedy that situation by re placing her quickly and painlessly like you can.
The more you can remember that last paragraph the easier it will be to not get caught up on what any one of your existing / past SBs are doing and just look forward to the next one.
[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;2949377]Like everything else in life, you get better with practice.
I ask questions that determine if they care about my appearance, want something ongoing, are willing to carry on a conversation, are too focused on what's in it for them, etc. I haven't found filtering out pros, utr's, GPS syndrome and desperate "Nando 1's" to be that hard.
The greater challenge is filtering our scammers and pretenders. Scammers will say all the right things and then come up with reasons for you to send them money upfront, but I always refuse even if I think they are genuine. Pretenders either enjoy just playing or haven't decided if they actually want to go thru with it.[/QUOTE]I probably should have used time consuming rather than hard. I've run into more than a few pretenders in the last few months, and I hate the loss of time when I learn their lies. GPS is easy to identify, but I usually try and chat with them for a few days before I ask what they're seeking. So again, it's a sunk cost of time.
Any advice on what sites you guys are using? I'm from a diff area but caught this thread, the idea is interesting but there's no talk of this kind of setup in my areas forums. Checked a few pages but didn't see any links.
[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2950162]The age demographic of these girls have been trained with YOLO as a fundamental philosophy, such that random hookups and cheating are a part of life, and that no relationship is forever. Their thought process continuity has been repeatedly disrupted by constant pop-up ads starting from the moment they are able to read, ads that either directly sell the promiscuous lifestyle, or that in some way use sexuality to sell their non-sex related product. This combined with other factors has created sort of a sexual ADD effect in the minds of our youth, the younger they are, the less likely they are to ever outgrow it. Other factors being things like the ubiquity of porn, mobile apps that encourage random sexual encounters, etc. It has turned them all into hunters, trolling for the next sexual fix. They cannot resist the urge to "see what's out there". They now crave the sexual variety that used to be solely the domain of the successful married guy that society used to entitle to that variety by virtue of his financial success, except the boredom sets in before they ever get started on their marriage or career due to the fast-tracking, instant-on, on-demand nature of the Internet.
So basically my advice has always been that with regard to girls we meet on any SD site, it is in our best interest to just enjoy the sex, do not form any level of attachment or sense of exclusivity, because the very fact they have labeled themselves an SB by creating a profile on these sites tells you everything you need to know about their sense of entitlement. It doesn't mean they're all bad people, I've met some very sweet SBs. I've met some that make me hum that song "If I could fly, I'd pick you up and take you into the night. " LOL. Over and over in my head. Some of them seem like relationship potential.
But I say don't do it. I think it's perfectly normal to feel bummed out if they have taken down their profile based on a discussion you've had with her (talks of exclusivity or whatever), then suddenly one day she puts it back up, but there is a solution for that feeling of being bummed which is to go and fuck one of the other SBs in your line up or keep yourself busy by searching for new ones. In the bowl, the supply curve is in your favor rather than hers, so in that game you will ultimately come out ahead.
I do wonder sometimes if one day someone will prove me wrong, and report back to this forum that they met the girl of their dreams on an SD site, have had a monogamous relationship and a couple of kids and after a decade or so are still in marital bliss. And I realize it's plausible that someone who actually finds that might never report back, so we may not know it if they exist. But every brother I've ever seen that flipped an SB into a GF of sorts always comes back with war stories about where things went wrong. Because of that fact, why ever let ourselves care enough about what one girl does to even let it get close to that stage? I've said it before, if anyone wants a GF, then sugardaddy sites aren't the place to look. If you do, consider her a temporary staffing situation of a girlfriend, and always have the next POT on the horizon. If looking for hot young girlfriend material, it would be better to find them on traditional dating sites and flip them to GF before they've discovered the bowl and full-on SB lifestyle. Identifying them early and being the first to stake your claim and indoctrinate them into age-inappropriate dating would be the key to success (but expect it to require much more work than the bowl).
Expecting honesty, integrity or loyalty from young and hot woman in itself is a stretch. Expecting it from one that has already announced her intentions and sense of entitlement by posting on a sugar dating site is even more of a stretch. So, just enjoy the game for what it's worth. There's a lot of great sex to be had out there.
I'm sure some of these SBs will make half decent wives for someone, some day, but that guy will be getting "honey-do" sex that diminishes in excitement during the first 6 months of marriage. He won't be getting hot, adventurous sex from her that equals what you're getting from her today, and it won't be easy for him to remedy that situation by re placing her quickly and painlessly like you can.
The more you can remember that last paragraph the easier it will be to not get caught up on what any one of your existing / past SBs are doing and just look forward to the next one.[/QUOTE]Once again, Jeez, you have hit the nail on the head for me personally. Believe when I say how much I appreciate you putting the time and effort into your high quality response.
[QUOTE=StormyTuesday;2950706]Once again, Jeez, you have hit the nail on the head for me personally. Believe when I say how much I appreciate you putting the time and effort into your high quality response.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the comments and glad to know my posts are being read. Believe it or not there is a method to my madness on some of these more elaborate posts. The reason some of them are lengthy / detailed is because I'm creating my own index, so that when a topic comes up that I've already shared my thoughts about, I can just share a link to the post that captures my overall perspective in depth, then maybe a line or two if I have any new or emerging info. Not so much as a future plan to avoid typing or anything, just to minimize the amount of redundant stuff that goes into the already enormous thread. So if it all goes well, at some point I will only be posting links to longer posts, plus any comments directly relevant to immediate discussion.
I don't know what the other offer was, or ever asked. I didn't want to suggest I was open to negotiation. I was told it was an offer that she couldn't refuse. I don't know the specifics yet, but she told me that he ultimately had sexual expectations she was uncomfortable with. I should learn more soon.
I believe he suggested he was willing to have a platonic relationship. I made it clear I'm not interested in a platonic relationship. I told her most guys who say they are, are not telling the truth. It looks like I was correct. She said she appreciates my honesty.
[QUOTE=EnzoAmore;2950114]Max,
I am just curious, what was "the other guy's higher offer" and what was your offer?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;2950738]I don't know the specifics yet, but she told me it the offer included sexual conditions she was uncomfortable with. I should learn more soon.[/QUOTE]First guess sounds like someone wanted a backstage pass to enter through the exit door. Or maybe some creepy BDSM "contract" or something.
I try to be honest and clear on what I am looking for, but not pushy and give them time to consider other offers. In several cases they have appreciated the honesty and ultimately accepted my offer. Often though, I never hear from them again and they disappear from the site.
I go with the numbers game and expect that not everyone will accept my conditions, but know some will.
[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2950742]First guess sounds like someone wanted a backstage pass to enter through the exit door. Or maybe some creepy BDSM "contract" or something.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Madaboutmax;2950752]I try to be honest and clear on what I am looking for, but not pushy and give them time to consider other alternatives. In several cases they have appreciated the honesty and ultimately accepted my conditions. Often though, I never hear from then again and they disappear from the site.[/QUOTE]In case it wasn't clear, I just meant it sounded like the other guy might have been making strange sexual demands (wasn't referring to the conditions you might have had).
In terms of what actually happens in the FC, I never even allude to any sort of requirements on my own part, I try to let all that happen naturally via chemistry and so far, I've been able to always get what I want, although in certain cases it sometimes requires a bit of last-minute coaching. This is one reason I don't like to discuss money up front, I feel that it throws both of us into a sort of competitive, business negotiation mode that kind of removes the "dating magic" that allows everything else to happen naturally.
About the ones that seem to disappear, one thing you might try is to let a month or two go by, and send a brief mail or text just to touch base, see how things are going, etc. I've had more than a few that suddenly went dark on me, but then after some time and another attempt at contact, they reconnect with the same enthusiasm as before and a ready-to-go attitude. I guess the key to this working is that if they do disappear or fail to respond, its best to not respond again until some time has passed (usually weeks), it conveys to them you have no shortage of other options.
My theory here is that part of the reason they go dark is they get a temporarily inflated sense of their own available options from too many SDs contacting them (most of whom don't work out for one reason or another). Also, I know that I myself have simply gotten overwhelmed with email and text management, and simply forgotten to reply to a few girls, or forgot that they were waiting for a response from me. Then after a couple of months there's a good chance your follow up will hit them at a time when everything else has fallen through or left them disappointed in one way or another, then you have that working for you plus the fact that she now sees that you're not the impatient type. 9 times out of 10 I've been able to re-ignite the fire this way. If they don't respond back after the delayed response, I would then let it go.
[blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything, but [blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]
[b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]This report was redacted or deleted to remove sections of the report that were [u]largely argumentative[/u]. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. [i]Thank You![/i]
Actually yes, in fact you were. Because you tell a guy, "hey I don't want to fight with you" then punch him in the fucking nose doesn't mean you're not fighting.
I'll never understand these SD/SB guys, it doesn't make any sense to me personally. That's why I stay the fuck off of those threads with my personal account.
A2[/blue]
Great Post, Jeez. I really like the idea of not discussing money upfront and let natural chemistry do its thing. Couple questions though. Say you invested time and effort in chatting w a POT, drove around to the M&G, paid for lunch / dinner and then after all these investments, POT turns out to be a GPS and throws out her $$$ expectation at you. Whats a good way to counter such situation and hopefully get some value out of it?
Also, per your experience (irrespective of your own affordability) dealing with SBs what do you think is the market average (allowance) for most SBs. Not UTRs or despos. Thanks.
[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2950777]In case it wasn't clear, I just meant it sounded like the other guy might have been making strange sexual demands (wasn't referring to the conditions you might have had).
In terms of what actually happens in the FC, I never even allude to any sort of requirements on my own part, I try to let all that happen naturally via chemistry and so far, I've been able to always get what I want, although in certain cases it sometimes requires a bit of last-minute coaching. This is one reason I don't like to discuss money up front, I feel that it throws both of us into a sort of competitive, business negotiation mode that kind of removes the "dating magic" that allows everything else to happen naturally.
About the ones that seem to disappear, one thing you might try is to let a month or two go by, and send a brief mail or text just to touch base, see how things are going, etc. I've had more than a few that suddenly went dark on me, but then after some time and another attempt at contact, they reconnect with the same enthusiasm as before and a ready-to-go attitude. I guess the key to this working is that if they do disappear or fail to respond, its best to not respond again until some time has passed (usually weeks), it conveys to them you have no shortage of other options.
My theory here is that part of the reason they go dark is they get a temporarily inflated sense of their own available options from too many SDs contacting them (most of whom don't work out for one reason or another). Also, I know that I myself have simply gotten overwhelmed with email and text management, and simply forgotten to reply to a few girls, or forgot that they were waiting for a response from me. Then after a couple of months there's a good chance your follow up will hit them at a time when everything else has fallen through or left them disappointed in one way or another, then you have that working for you plus the fact that she now sees that you're not the impatient type. 9 times out of 10 I've been able to re-ignite the fire this way. If they don't respond back after the delayed response, I would then let it go.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Lebruno;2950876]Great Post, Jeez. I really like the idea of not discussing money upfront and let natural chemistry do its thing. Couple questions though. Say you invested time and effort in chatting w a POT, drove around to the M&G, paid for lunch / dinner and then after all these investments, POT turns out to be a GPS and throws out her $$$ expectation at you. Whats a good way to counter such situation and hopefully get some value out of it?
Also, per your experience (irrespective of your own affordability) dealing with SBs what do you think is the market average (allowance) for most SBs. Not UTRs or despos. Thanks.[/QUOTE]My experience has been most want to know up front the arrangement. Thus the m / g. This is discussed in detail after spending time with her and both deciding that we want to proceed. The arrangement, how it will be paid, the number of visits, what happens if a visitation is missed (her fault or mine), the time to be spent, whether she wants the wining and dinning or just play. Everything is worked out at m / g then its never brought back up. This way the girl never has to worry about getting stiffed by the hit and run guys or the ones that figure $ takes care of everything. No disappointment from their end.
Attraction and chemistry is a must but to the girls just doing it for the money the details is more important. Remember they can put on a good act for a good arrangement so don't get caught up in how into you she acts. The arrangement goes so do they.
Sometimes I follow up on old messages that got no response with a "maybe I got lost in the torrent of messages you get, would still love to meet you" note. Recently sent that to a a 20 year old blonde, whose occupation was listed as student with a desired arrangement of substantial.
Her response: "yeah, sorry I make more than you do. You seem like a nice guy though".
I sent back "what do you do? Maybe you can be my sugar mama. " I guess the high end hooker business is booming.
[QUOTE=Lebruno;2950876]Great Post, Jeez. I really like the idea of not discussing money upfront and let natural chemistry do its thing. Couple questions though. Say you invested time and effort in chatting w a POT, drove around to the M&G, paid for lunch / dinner and then after all these investments, POT turns out to be a GPS and throws out her $$$ expectation at you. Whats a good way to counter such situation and hopefully get some value out of it?
Also, per your experience (irrespective of your own affordability) dealing with SBs what do you think is the market average (allowance) for most SBs. Not UTRs or despos. Thanks.[/QUOTE]Believe it or not I have never had a POT throw out a number during the M&G date. I have had several occasions where, despite my firm strategy of not discussing money with girls I actually plan to meet, the POT insisted on taking the conversation down that road in the messages prior to meeting, and because of that I had to cancel plans of meeting them (and in a few cases it's gotten ugly enough to where I had to basically tell them to fuck off in slightly more polite terms).
I have only had one case where a POT met for the M&G, then cut the date short asking if we could meet the next day (not happening because I already had another date lined up). After we parted ways she started texting me, where she insisted on talking about money. She didn't give me a specific amount for what her expectation was but started saying she had gotten something like $1 k-1500 for a weekend before, and by that time I was already getting frustrated, called the night a loss (still to date the only M&G I've had that didn't go straight to the FC).
My standard target gift amount for the girl on a typical date is $200, but on most of my dates I end up spending quite a bit more overall because of dinner, drinks, etc. Thing is sometimes a date is an all-nighter with 2-3 rounds of fucking, other times it's send them on their way after one. Actual market average? I don't know that there could really be an average, because levels of game are all over the map, overall hotness of girls are all over the map, and things vary with geographic region and cost of living. Id guess overall national somewhere between 200-400 per date depending on area? No idea though.
The exception to not talking about money is with strippers, this is because there's pretty much no way of getting them out of the club otherwise, and I usually find that I have to spend a little more than the target gift (but not as much as the "full date" experience) unless they want to meet me on their night off. This is because of lost income from their shift (if I take them home with me that night they often have a fine to pay, a situation that an SB doesn't usually have. Even if she takes a night off work she's typically not giving up that much money to see me). Also with strippers I've seen them naked so I know what I'm getting. How could I possibly agree to an amount with a girl I haven't even seen naked yet (just my perspective)? Seems like buying sight unseen and I'm not okay with that.
Even though that's how it realistically turns out with me (pay per date), I never talk about things in that context. I just give it to them after all is said and done. So far so good.
So I think to answer your question, if they started doing like the one GPS girl I mentioned above, and doing so at a table at a restaurant over dinner I think I would tell them it's neither the time or place to discuss such a private matter and that I don't appreciate the subject matter. Luckily I haven't had to do this at a M&G. I do sometimes exert a direct display of dominance like this in other situations, and sometimes it pays big dividends. In fact I think putting my foot down and showing who is in charge of the situation has resulted in more panties hitting the floor than any other aspect of my personality, most females respond very positively to alpha males. Ultimately I let them know that if they don't want to be with me then they can go fly, and that I don't want to be a part of any situation that attempts to force me to think of myself as an ATM machine. Clearly, when I'm 80 years old a lot of these tactics won't work anymore (because I can't expect a 20 year old to legimately "want" someone that old sexually), and maybe at that time I'll either have to fuck older girls, pay higher amounts, or leave the game altogether to save my ego. But in the meantime my confidence is justified, so I'll play that card as long as I can I guess.
Back to money amounts, and discussing them. There are times when I absolutely do discuss money (it's just that I do it with girls I'll never meet, as a game-sharpening exercise). More on that technique at the following link: [URL]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?9746-quot-Sugarbabies-quot-quot-Arrangements-quot-Amateurs-or-Not&p=2919909&viewfull=1#post2919909[/URL]
Specifically, look at tip #2. Sometimes I've been able to talk them down to $ per date from original expectation of five times that, all without ever having met them. It's something that usually takes days of back and worth to really wear down their expectation, but it can actually be a fun training exercise. Doesn't work with all of them but it's nice to know that with enough work some very cost effective opportunities can emerge.
[QUOTE=Dsprdo;2950966]Sometimes I follow up on old messages that got no response with a "maybe I got lost in the torrent of messages you get, would still love to meet you" note. Recently sent that to a a 20 year old blonde, whose occupation was listed as student with a desired arrangement of substantial.
Her response: "yeah, sorry I make more than you do. You seem like a nice guy though". I sent back "what do you do? Maybe you can be my sugar mama. " I guess the high end hooker business is booming.[/QUOTE]Just my two cents (and I hope it's well received). In the bowl and in civy dating, sometimes I get a note from a girl I spoke to before but forgot about, or sometimes someone I even went out with in the past hits me up. How they approach me in their attempt to reconnect often determines whether I want to write back or not.
For example if someone says "Hi, not sure if you remember me or not but I just wondered if you'd met anyone nice yet?" or similar, it makes me much more inclined to respond positively than if they say "I'm sure you're a busy guy but just wanted to say hello and see if you're still interested in talking more".
The reason I don't care for the second approach is that it comes in too high and presumptuous for my personal taste, she's making assumptions about how busy I am without really knowing me and being careless with words. Better to come in low, polite and humble. I probably wouldn't spend a lot of time thinking about how it rubbed me, I would just make a decision on whether and how to respond.The difference between those two would mostly take place in my subconscious thought processes. Of course if she's hot I'd still want to fuck her even if I don't like her approach, but I'm a guy and girls are different in that regard. So while I think from a guy's perspective, you were kind of complementing her with the torrent of messages comment (it means she's hot so she has lots of opportunity so she should take it as a compliment), there are a lot of other ways she might interpret it. And, say the wrong thing on a PMS day and it's hells bells. There is no accounting for wacky female hormones, only tactful movements.
[QUOTE=StormyTuesday;2949893]After a few years in the hobby and the past year exclusively playing in the bowl I have generally always been in the FC at least twice a week. Although there have been a few SBs I felt I could be exclusive with, including my current 19 yr old submissive nymphomaniac, I always seem to be on the prowl to have at least 2 different SBs per week. But on the flip side when I have a good SB that I spend extended hours with (dinners, overnight, etc) I start to get a bit pissy when I see them on the SA site. A good example is my current SB who I have seen weekly for the past 5 weeks. I actually "recruited" her from SA to be the third in a FMF with my previous # 1 SB. It was her first FMF but I knew she was hot so I dropped the previous SB. The first few weeks my current SB stayed off the site but this past week has been on it off and on. When I elected to bring the topic up she said it was fun for her to see what the different guys profiles were and to read their messages, followed by "you're the only one I am sleeping with. " I don't know what the real issue is for me personally, if it is not wanting to share her with other SDs or if I am taking it as a personal affront. We have already done a lot of crazy stuff in the FC and I provide a shade more than I normally do (5) but we are together for 6 to 8 hours at a time including meals out. I have talked to her about twice a week visits but her work schedule may challenge the idea. Meanwhile the hypocritical side of me is still reaching out to POTs lining up tentative M & Gs over the next week. Since I can't justify the expense of a shrink I am relying on input from the brothers. Are most of us hypocrites who prefer to create a double standard?[/QUOTE]There ARE some" honorable" SBs out there. The girls do this for 1) the kick of it, 2) money, 3) and sex. Re:1) they are risk takers and are less likely to be monogamous. Forget this type if you want monogamy. Their profiles say it - "looking for excitement --etc" Re: #2 I focus on this type. They fall in two categories a) greedy users who will fuck 12 Daddies if they can line them up, and b) my type-the needy girls who have debt or single Moms who can't work due to lack of childcare options. Many are not promiscuous by nature but are exploring this avenue out of necessity. They can be Monogamous if you take care of enough of their needs. Avoid the Nando 1 types though. If they are desperate enough they will see as many guys as they can. And #3) girls who like sex as much as men do will ***** around with as many guys as they can line up. They might have standards and unlike escorts will be picky about who they see, but they will find them.
[QUOTE=FredMoore;2951974]There ARE some" honorable" SBs out there. The girls do this for 1) the kick of it, 2) money, 3) and sex. Re:1) they are risk takers and are less likely to be monogamous. Forget this type if you want monogamy. Their profiles say it - "looking for excitement --etc" Re: #2 I focus on this type. They fall in two categories a) greedy users who will fuck 12 Daddies if they can line them up, and b) my type-the needy girls who have debt or single Moms who can't work due to lack of childcare options. Many are not promiscuous by nature but are exploring this avenue out of necessity. They can be Monogamous if you take care of enough of their needs. Avoid the Nando 1 types though. If they are desperate enough they will see as many guys as they can. And #3) girls who like sex as much as men do will ***** around with as many guys as they can line up. They might have standards and unlike escorts will be picky about who they see, but they will find them.[/QUOTE]I've run into a few #4's as well. They're busy professionals, and they don't want to deal with the dating scene. They may, or may not, have the means to enjoy nice dinners, and trips. They want someone that won't bring drama can wine and dine them, and then shag the hell out of them.
Agreed. In fact, I'm talking to one of those right now. She's a top level exec. Well to do. Money is not a problem. But wants to let down once a while go fine dining and have some good sex without any strings. But I guess these types could still fall within #1.
[QUOTE=BikeRider;2952031]I've run into a few #4's as well. They're busy professionals, and they don't want to deal with the dating scene. They may, or may not, have the means to enjoy nice dinners, and trips. They want someone that won't bring drama can wine and dine them, and then shag the hell out of them.[/QUOTE]