"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=FirstHalf;2931546]For sure, our beliefs and expectations are shaped by our experience. Only twice have I experienced a breakup [B]that I initiated[/B] as a drama free experience. I also take your point that following my lead my lead to fuel on the fire and all, but I probably made it sound too simple.

At the risk of sounding misogynistic, the fact is that women tend to be linked in for some sort of long term vision. Once you toss something out there that is "unfixable" you "break" that vision. I mean, if you don't respect her deeply held beliefs, where can it possibly go? You think her family are lowlifes? In what scenario would you think they aren't?

You get the idea. Just create the truth that there's no overcoming the obstacle that lies in front of her. She will move on.
Anyway, as you said, our own experiences and all.[/QUOTE]It's not that I disagree with what you've said, in fact I could convey an anecdotal experience that completely confirms it. I once had a serious long-term girlfriend that might have been the best girlfriend I ever had: We got along so well, she was such a no-drama person which I need and appreciate, and to this day she remains my favorite fuck of all time. Not only was the sex itself top of the charts, but I never got tired of sex with her during our entire relationship, something I've never experienced with anyone else before or since (including current girlfriend). She's kind of the gold standard for fucking that I compare all other women to. But, she was religious, and would not miss Sunday church if her life depended on it. I'm about as far from a follower of organized religion as you can get, I wouldn't step foot in the place with her not even once and I made it clear I never would. I never asked her to give up her faith, but I let her know I would never join it, ultimately the reason the relationship ended. So it's exactly what you are saying, I basically disrespected that which is most important to her and it gave her the strength to walk. I have no regrets and I'm sure she doesn't either, it was a drama-free split.

But she wasn't an SB, and I'm pretty sure wouldn't be caught dead on an SB site as she never had that sense of entitlement, nor ever asked for financial help from me. No daddy issues or sense of entitlement, she was hot enough to be a 10 on the SB charts but wasn't of that ilk -- she earned her own keep in life.

The methods I described for "getting myself fired" from SBs are only that -- methods that should only be used on SBs. I've never come close to an emotional attachment with an SB so I don't think it's fair if they get attached to me. The worst they could do to me is flake on a date (not show up), go dark or disappear, etc. And if they do it's all fair in the bowl. The way I see it, if I choose to I should be able to do the same without fear of some vendetta.

So the advice I was giving here is really just vendetta-avoidance for those who need it. Not everyone will. Hoya is in a position where his divorced status will designate him as boyfriend / hubby material for a lot of these girls, and some of them will get pissed if they don't get what they want. At the same time not having the threat of being outed as a cheating husband works to his advantage as well, he simply has less to lose. A keymark down the side of the car can be repaired.

That story actually reminds me of my worst car-damage encounter. I actually had a situation where the shouting turned into her getting physical (in a public parking lot) and I didn't want to be arrested on some sort of domestic charge so I got in my car to leave. After I closed the driver side door, this little Latina, all of about a slim 5'2 literally punched my car door once, then kicked it before I could back out and get away. Given her size, the fist-dent was rather impressive, and the boot-imprint was severe enough that it was beyond what a typical paintless dent repair person could handle. As they say, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Better to let them fire you.

I work in one time zone, my wife is in another time zone. I fly home on weekends. I'm wondering if I should entertain sugar babies at my apartment on the road. There's zero chance the wife would ever show up unannounced, and it's your typical big-city high rise with 24 hour security, doorman, etc. I'm probably overthinking this, but just wanted to solicit some thoughts from the group. Getting hotel rooms adds to the expense, but also helps protect my privacy.

[QUOTE=Starkey2008;2929932]You can PM me.

Stark.[/QUOTE]I have received strange info from Daisy. I also met with Veronica SA. Is that who you're talking about? We had a great visit, all was going smoothly, then she went totally dark. Would love to know the deal. PM me if you have Intel.

[QUOTE=CigarFL;2932128]I work in one time zone, my wife is in another time zone. I fly home on weekends. I'm wondering if I should entertain sugar babies at my apartment on the road. There's zero chance the wife would ever show up unannounced, and it's your typical big-city high rise with 24 hour security, doorman, etc. I'm probably overthinking this, but just wanted to solicit some thoughts from the group. Getting hotel rooms adds to the expense, but also helps protect my privacy.[/QUOTE]My first instinct was to say yes why not, but if the wife visits you there at all (even planned and announced) then I probably would say risk level too high--because you can never control whether SBs show up unannounced during a planned wifey visit. Unless it's the kind of place where guests need specific approval to make it past the doorman, I probably wouldn't do it, personally, at least not regularly. But even still you don't want someone from security knocking on your door when the wife is there saying there's some young lady that insists she's having your baby, etc.

If the wife literally never visits there and you're sure she never will, then no reason I can see not to.

If you decide to bring your SB back to your place, you have more stones than me. I would never do it. The cost of hotels is high. The cost of divorce is higher.

If I were single and had a long term SB that was like a SO, than maybe (think hoyasvnfgr), but letting a SB know where you live is inviting trouble, in my humble opinion.

For example, your wife gives you the heads up that she's coming, so you don't schedule anything with your SB, but that makes your SB mad. The SB shows up the same day as your wife and makes a scene. Now your sugar lifestyle is exposed.

Hotels are the way to go for SDs with SOs. Alternatively rent a spot specifically for the bowl.

[QUOTE=CigarFL;2932128]I work in one time zone, my wife is in another time zone. I fly home on weekends. I'm wondering if I should entertain sugar babies at my apartment on the road. There's zero chance the wife would ever show up unannounced, and it's your typical big-city high rise with 24 hour security, doorman, etc. I'm probably overthinking this, but just wanted to solicit some thoughts from the group. Getting hotel rooms adds to the expense, but also helps protect my privacy.[/QUOTE]

I had an apartment in another city for 2 years and it was very nice. Babies were more at ease and I routinely had them sleep over. My wife visited twice but I traveled so much a baby had no idea when I was home or not. It was way better than hotels. One baby worked nites and I would just leave the door open. Generally woke up with her lips wrapped around my cock. Very nice.

Never had any problem. But thought about it.

[QUOTE=CigarFL;2932128]I work in one time zone, my wife is in another time zone. I fly home on weekends. I'm wondering if I should entertain sugar babies at my apartment on the road. There's zero chance the wife would ever show up unannounced, and it's your typical big-city high rise with 24 hour security, doorman, etc. I'm probably overthinking this, but just wanted to solicit some thoughts from the group. Getting hotel rooms adds to the expense, but also helps protect my privacy.[/QUOTE]

Definitely nice not to deal with hotels. But having an apartment is costly as well.

[QUOTE=Graham111;2932907]I had an apartment in another city for 2 years and it was very nice. Babies were more at ease and I routinely had them sleep over. My wife visited twice but I traveled so much a baby had no idea when I was home or not. It was way better than hotels. One baby worked nites and I would just leave the door open. Generally woke up with her lips wrapped around my cock. Very nice.

Never had any problem. But thought about it.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JWHere;2932161]I have received strange info from Daisy. I also met with Veronica SA. Is that who you're talking about? We had a great visit, all was going smoothly, then she went totally dark. Would love to know the deal. PM me if you have Intel.[/QUOTE]Not sure she was VeronicaSA. But definitely went by Veronica. She has deactivated her account. This girl's real name is Haley. She's brunette spinner, very tan, who used to dance at Pure Pleasure (she's been discussed on other forums before, so she is really more UTR). She's hot as balls, a great lay, and laid back personality. She is real college student and I really like her. But last time I saw her I caught her trying to lift one of the room keys while I was cleaning up in the bathroom. Guess she planned on coming back later. To do who knows what. I called her on it. She came clean, but then went dark. I also found a social media account where she discusses her shoplifting habit. Recently I think she reconciled with her loser boyfriend. Oh well. I will miss banging her.

Stay Safe.

Stark.

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Not this one either[/blue]

A short update on my hot 19 yo SB who broke up with me for the 3rd time about a month ago. After a week she apologized and we've been together since. She's very nice to me when she's not coldly breaking up. I'm not so sure I want to continue, but I'm curious to see how it plays out if I can control costs. Disagreement about sugar has been at the heart of each breakup, which were all initiated by her. I pay $200/ visit / week. Together with various gifts it adds up to 1200/ month, which is a bit over my budget. But I guess that's at the minimum range of an exclusive SB, at least she seems exclusive. However, you can't live on what I give her. Based on stories she had heard, she was expecting $500/ visit. Why she became inactive on SD4 M after a few weeks and why she keeps coming back to me is anyone's guess, but next time she breaks up, I'll be strongly tempted to return to my peaceful non-SD existence and save money. She has some power over me, though, so it's hard to say what I'll do. It may be useful to give a brief portrait of her as an example of what's available. She's from a poor family who didn't help her during her freshman year in college. During the 8 months I've known her, she's dropped out of college, gotten a menial job, moved in with her parents, and experienced other problems I won't go into. I guess that a lot of 18-19 yo are in the same boat. It's difficult for many of them to become independent.

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Nope[/blue]

[QUOTE=Starkey2008;2933245]Lighten up JL. It was a joke. And everything you just wrote doesn't change the fact that brevity isn't your strong suit. Many of your posts contain valuable info, but many of them contain opinions that are no more valid than anyone else's. Anybody who spends anytime on SA or any other site knows what it's all about. It was only a matter of time before it and other sites found themselves in the crosshairs of Uncle LEO. Don't kid yourself, you didn't make some great prognostication. Maybe your own thread would be a great idea. And the guys that want to read "The World According to JL" will know exactly where to go.
[/QUOTE]The idea of my own thread was recently discussed. And for every one user here that wants brevity from me, there are five that want elaboration. You can't please everyone.

Jokes should be funny, so you need to work on that one. One of the nice things about this forum is that save for a couple of d-bags in the past, the Richmond thread has been free of pointed insults and taking digs at each other. So, don't take digs at me again.

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No[/blue]

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No again[/blue]

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Not this one[/blue]

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Nope[/blue]

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And (fucking finally) no

You two ladies may think that running arguments are fun but nobody else wants to read this shit.

If you can't figure out the ignore function and Report Post button I think you will find yourselves moderated again.

A2[/blue]

Every now and then these articles about the SB scene appear, and I think they might be our best possible marketing vehicle, probably recruiting even more girls than when Brandon Wade does appearances on Dr. Phil or Oprah or whatever (is Oprah even still a thing? I'm out of touch with daytime chick shows so I don't know).

[URL]http://bigstory.ap.org/article/2068103df01640e689027a805262c4d2/students-seeking-sugar-daddies-tuition-rent[/URL]

College baby growth from 79,000 to 1. 9 million in six years is pretty impressive considering total college enrollment (and thus future graduates) have declined during that same period. At least it is reassuring to know that I'm helping to educate America, sort of.

An unusal request here. I miss the days of my youth when everyone had a Bush. Something about making out in car and slipping my hand down their panties and feeling all that hair always got me going.

Anybody seen any under 30 women that still sports a respectable Bush? I know Gabrielle, 20 has one but she and I did not click past coffee. Thanks.

[QUOTE=ToeLover57;2933927]An unusal request here. I miss the days of my youth when everyone had a Bush. Something about making out in car and slipping my hand down their panties and feeling all that hair always got me going.

Anybody seen any under 30 women that still sports a respectable Bush? I know Gabrielle, 20 has one but she and I did not click past coffee. Thanks.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I found one. SB was 25, lived walking distance from me. I immediately sent her home. It was a forest down there. Didn't notice it on the first FC. One the second, I wanted to go down and I saw the Appalachian shrubs down there. We had the convo right then and there. The next week she reached out for FC, said she had a wax. I couldn't get past the trauma of the last time. I stood her up.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2932563]My first instinct was to say yes why not, but if the wife visits you there at all (even planned and announced) then I probably would say risk level too high--because you can never control whether SBs show up unannounced during a planned wifey visit. Unless it's the kind of place where guests need specific approval to make it past the doorman, I probably wouldn't do it, personally, at least not regularly. But even still you don't want someone from security knocking on your door when the wife is there saying there's some young lady that insists she's having your baby, etc.

If the wife literally never visits there and you're sure she never will, then no reason I can see not to.[/QUOTE]I agree with JeezLizard -- he hit the nail on the head. Thanks for all the advice about whether I should use my apartment on the road (I am a long-distance commuter) for SB activities. Although wifey would never show up without advance warning, the fact of the matter is she will visit sometimes. She teaches at a university and takes summers off, and spends those 6-8 weeks with me. So yeah, maybe this is not such a good idea.

On the other hand, I don't keep long-term SBs. I usually go the per-visit route, or put them in a rotation with a couple other girls. My fear is that I'll latch on to one who is crazy and she'll show up in the lobby of apartment building and cause a scene -- just as JeezLizard suggested. I don't even want to think about what would happen if that took place during one of my wife's infrequent visits or her annual summer stay.

Oh well, that's what this board is for -- to bounce ideas off other guys. Thanks to everyone who provided input.

Cigar.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2933790]Every now and then these articles about the SB scene appear, and I think they might be our best possible marketing vehicle, probably recruiting even more girls than when Brandon Wade does appearances on Dr. Phil or Oprah or whatever (is Oprah even still a thing? I'm out of touch with daytime chick shows so I don't know).

[URL]http://bigstory.ap.org/article/2068103df01640e689027a805262c4d2/students-seeking-sugar-daddies-tuition-rent[/URL]

College baby growth from 79,000 to 1. 9 million in six years is pretty impressive considering total college enrollment (and thus future graduates) have declined during that same period. At least it is reassuring to know that I'm helping to educate America, sort of.[/QUOTE]They scare me. Too much attention and too much heat. This is probably because I stupidly used my real CC the first time I bought a membership to check it out and now I live in fear of an AM style hack.

[QUOTE=GuyInTheCorner;2934356]They scare me. Too much attention and too much heat. This is probably because I stupidly used my real CC the first time I bought a membership to check it out and now I live in fear of an AM style hack.[/QUOTE]I understand your point. However, the SD websites only exist because of their ability to interest and attract the girls, and without the exposure it would dry up. Yes those who don't mind the extra effort and have the ability to do so will always be able to find SBs on Match, POF, other dating sites, restaurants, strip clubs, etc. , but the problem is in the extra effort required. All of those methods are far less convenient. The SD sites and marketing like that article help glorify what has already gone on for centuries (hot young girl combined with successful older man), and as long as there is not a stigma of illegality attached to it, it will attract more and better quality girls.

The most important thing to remember is that being an SD or an SB is not illegal when done properly. It is illegal (in most US states at least) to treat it as an extension of BP, passing girls around like escorts and such, and this kind of activity is what threatens the hobby the most. Look at what happened to CL and what is happening to BP as we speak.

But in terms of something like the AM hack hitting the SD sites, I don't see it happening. The premise of AM is that "all users are scumbags", cheating men looking for cheating women. What's more, once it was hacked it was realized that the site itself was largely a scam, so the hackers were really seeking to penalize the site itself more than the members (although arguably with justifiable reason to penalize either). With the sugar bowl, the basic premise is that these girls are trying to better themselves and are swimming in debt, so it provides them opportunity they wouldn't otherwise have. Hacktivists might not like the fact that a lot of SDs are married, but it forces them to consider the other side of the equation (the girls who in theory are only guilty of wanting to get past financial struggle and ridiculous amounts of debt).

For example, the girl in the article is getting her law degree at Villanova, all because of her SDs. She not only did not hide her identity, she proudly agrees to be featured in the media. That goes to show the wide gap in perception between sneaking around cheating, and doing something to elevate one's status in life. Anyone who tries to say that an SD / SB relationship is illegal or immoral is basically saying the same about anyone who marries up into a position of higher financial status.

So honestly in terms of CC hacks/identity exposure, I wouldn't lose sleep over it. What I would worry about is the escort / UTR type and their clients creating an unwanted stigma for SD sites. All it will take is a single negative media case involving trafficking and the SD sites will go through the same thing BP is going through now.

[QUOTE=Graham111;2932907]I had an apartment in another city for 2 years and it was very nice. Babies were more at ease and I routinely had them sleep over. My wife visited twice but I traveled so much a baby had no idea when I was home or not. It was way better than hotels. One baby worked nites and I would just leave the door open. Generally woke up with her lips wrapped around my cock. Very nice.

Never had any problem. But thought about it.[/QUOTE]I was separated at the time but entertained regularly there. It was a locked entry, sprawling complex with gated parking separate from the building. I walked them in a back way around and about different halls and floors, so they had no clue how to find me. I could hardly find it myself. Just do not leave any I. D. Info like bills laying around. It was so easy to seduce a girl there. Two fell the same week as a "no sex" M&G led to a drink, then a little dancing, then off to the FC. Hotels leave a paper trail. The SO did not ever come there though.

With my college babes gone for the summer I'm back on SA looking for some summer fun. I use to monger a lot over the years but now I prefer the chase after Sugar Babies. Although I seem to have run into a bunch of platonic ones lately. I ignore the ones that state it up front. Good luck to them! But my last two contacts only brought it up after messaging for awhile. So I decided to dig into the issue with the last one.

She assures me she has had many men who are just fine with a platonic arrangement and agreeing to her terms and boundaries. So I pushed deeper by asking are you talking about just no intercourse or you going true platonic with no sexual contact at all. He reply was light kisses at end of date was as far as she goes. Surely some must get a little more frisky I asked but no she said as she only does public things until she is sure her date is trust worthy. Trust and trust worthy come up a lot in her conversation via messaging. So I ended up asking her how long was the longest arrangement she ever had. Three months she said. So I replied I bet he wanted more than a kiss after getting to know you better. That was the case so I followed up by asking is that what she wanted, to make a new "trusting" friend every few months to keep the money flowing in? By now she was getting tired of my questions and she replied back that it was her arrangement and her rules.

I figure any woman on SA that thinks a platonic arrangement will work out is not to be persuaded otherwise. Anyone come across one that could be turned?

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2934402]
For example, the girl in the article is getting her law degree at Villanova, all because of her SDs. She not only did not hide her identity, she proudly agrees to be featured in the media. That goes to show the wide gap in perception between sneaking around cheating, and doing something to elevate one's status in life. Anyone who tries to say that an SD / SB relationship is illegal or immoral is basically saying the same about anyone who marries up into a position of higher financial status.[/QUOTE]That girl is a naive idiot for using her real name and face admitting she is a sugar baby. These girls just do not think of the consequences later in life or she has the hubris that law students soon develop.

Her problem, that she may not realize, is that she can graduate at the top of her law class, but in order to practice the profession, she needs a license and that requires her to pass a review board (character / ethics) in order to take the Bar Exam or get the license after she passes. Shoot I had a buddy who was in LE and hard a hiccup 10 years prior. He disclosed the issue in law school applications and in Bar Exam applications. It wasn't until AFTER he passed the bar that the review board got hinkey on the past hiccup and they denied him a license. He had to go before the State Board and defend himself or all of the work would have been for naught.

I have seen other law students show up on talk shows like Dr. Phil and say they are SBs. In one case the show had a representative on from the Character Board and that person said they watch for SBs, review the sites, cans search for SB activity and anyone found doing that probably would fail the character part and be denied a sitting for the Bar exam or license once the bar exam was passed.

So it will be interesting to see if Miss Villinova's going "out there" in a public way isn't a great idea in the long run? She may get a BIG lesson in lawyers / lawyering.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2935227]That girl is a naive idiot for using her real name and face admitting she is a sugar baby. These girls just do not think of the consequences later in life or she has the hubris that law students soon develop.

Her problem, that she may not realize, is that she can graduate at the top of her law class, but in order to practice the profession, she needs a license and that requires her to pass a review board (character / ethics) in order to take the Bar Exam or get the license after she passes. Shoot I had a buddy who was in LE and hard a hiccup 10 years prior. He disclosed the issue in law school applications and in Bar Exam applications. It wasn't until AFTER he passed the bar that the review board got hinkey on the past hiccup and they denied him a license. He had to go before the State Board and defend himself or all of the work would have been for naught.

I have seen other law students show up on talk shows like Dr. Phil and say they are SBs. In one case the show had a representative on from the Character Board and that person said they watch for SBs, review the sites, cans search for SB activity and anyone found doing that probably would fail the character part and be denied a sitting for the Bar exam or license once the bar exam was passed.

So it will be interesting to see if Miss Villinova's going "out there" in a public way isn't a great idea in the long run? She may get a BIG lesson in lawyers / lawyering.[/QUOTE]I agree that if she wants to maximize her career options, it's not very wise to set herself up such that from now until the end of time, every time her name is Googled, a few articles about being an SB appear in the results, particularly considering her chosen profession. That assumes she actually wants to be a lawyer, some folks get law degrees as sort of a credential for certain career roles, but never actually aspire to work as an attorney.

However I also wonder if we are moving toward an age of lower judgement about these things. The issue I see with judgment of character for things like legal or medical license application is that rejection reasons must be founded in some tangible classification about that person, for example "former convict" or "former porn star" etc. These are irrefutable labels. However, different people have different ideas about what a sugar baby is -- hell even in this forum there is not a common consensus on what it is. Whether or not someone is or is not an SB is not conclusively provable. What's more, denying someone a license based on opinion about what constitutes ethical dating or not is getting into dangerous waters for the licensure board regarding discrimination and civil liberties, that sort of thing could quickly become a nightmare for any licensing body.

If I were her I wouldn't take a chance on trying to test the threshold of what is possible here if she wants to be taken seriously as a lawyer, but stranger things have happened. Wasn't it discovered Marcia Clark (OJ Simpson prosecutor) was up to some naughtiness, exotic dancing or modeling or something when she was young?

Regardless of whether it limits her career options or not (I personally am with you that it probably will, in some way whether she realizes it or not), I don't think the term sugar baby carries a stigma with everyone. I've mentioned this in the past but Lisa Ling and other famous people have admitted to having a sugar daddy when they were starting out. To a lot of women, having a sugar daddy is something to brag about, like a status symbol, not something to be shamed for like prostitution.

[QUOTE=Snake27;2933228]She's from a poor family who didn't help her during her freshman year in college. During the 8 months I've known her, she's dropped out of college, gotten a menial job, moved in with her parents, and experienced other problems I won't go into. I guess that a lot of 18-19 yo are in the same boat. It's difficult for many of them to become independent.[/QUOTE]As I've mentioned in the past, even though I tend to swing liberal, my small venture into the bowl has been extremely eye-opening. My girl is smart, hard-working, has strong ethics, and she basically got screwed over by being born into a bad situation. Inherit a broken family headed up by a psycho-mom, on top of such poverty that she can't rely on family for getting any start-up traction in life, and that's that. Stick a fork in it, you're done.

Being the oldest meant the mom made the worst mistakes with her, causing a lot of acting-out during her HS years which set her farther behind. But even without that problem, the dice were seriously loaded against her. Without someone like me to be financial assistant, life couch, part-time therapist, tutor, you name it, I hate to think of where her trajectory would have landed her. And she really didn't deserve that bad rap.

Take someone who [I]doesn't[/I] retain their moral compass in such a bad environment and there's little to no hope of recovering from the tail spin.

I know that there are lots of examples of pull-up-by-the-bootstraps success stories, but I'll bet a lot of them had grounding in a good home. Or if not, they are outliers who beat some pretty brutal odds.

[QUOTE=ToeLover57;2935197]
I figure any woman on SA that thinks a platonic arrangement will work out is not to be persuaded otherwise. Anyone come across one that could be turned?[/QUOTE]I find they can all be turned, and I mean every single one of them. It doesn't mean they will just fuck anyone for the right price though, a true SB is going to want some level of connection and will choose her sex partners just like any other hot woman will. This is one of the primary criteria that differentiates an escort from a true SB.

Learning to flip the "no intimacy" girls is all part of practicing game. See tip #2 at this post:

[URL]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?9746-quot-Sugarbabies-quot-quot-Arrangements-quot-Amateurs-or-Not&p=2919909&viewfull=1[/URL]#post2919909.

Talking the "no intimacy!" ladies into admitting they will fuck you before they've ever met you, all via e-mail and text, is an art in itself, and it takes practice. Its great when you can do it, because it's one less barrier at the actual M&G. But sometimes you have to know when to back off and be subtle about what you're talking about. Believe me, none of them actually believe that the allowance will flow without sex. They are scoping out potential suitors and using the concept of forbidden fruit to both increase their perceived value and to ensure they are free of any legal risks. It also helps them save face if someone they know sees their profile on the site.

[QUOTE=ToeLover57;2935197]
I figure any woman on SA that thinks a platonic arrangement will work out is not to be persuaded otherwise. Anyone come across one that could be turned?[/QUOTE]It really depends on several factors.

How hot and young she is. How suggestive her photos are and etc. Some girls are hot enough and mastered the art of teasing that she'll have a line of guys at the door willing to "take things slow" hoping to bang her. After a month or two of the guy getting frustrated, he'll drop her and then she'll move on to the next guy. Rinse, wish, and repeat. She keeps getting allowances without really having to do anything. They've mastered the art of the "Tease" to the fullest. The success rate with these type of girls is super low unless you have tons of money to throw at her that she wants to hold on to you instead of going to the next guy.

Then there are other girls who may be attractive but don't necessarily draw in tons of guys or perhaps have rather conservative photos. These girls aren't necessarily playing the "Tease" game. They may be wanting a platonic arrangement because they are completely new to the sugar world and they're still unsure how much they want to commit to it. The success rate with these type of girls is still low but it's more doable to flip these girls into a physical SB / SD arrangement with enough game and guile.

With those type of girls you need to find out why they want a platonic arrangement. Do they require a connection? Do they want to know the arrangement will be more than a one night stand? Does she have a boyfriend / husband? Is she inexperienced with adult relationships? Is she worried about the logistics or feeling safe? Or she doesn't want to feel like an escort? Once you understand why she wants a platonic arrangement, then you can properly form a plan to break down those barriers. For instance, if she wants a connection, then you can give her small gifts and take an interest in her interests, etc. Manufacture a connection. Sounds mean but if they're on a sugar daddy site, it means they're not looking for true love. They just want someone who they can feel comfortable around and maybe enjoy and look forward to their company. Just be warned though, these type of girls are notoriously skittish so it takes a focused effort on your part. If you break discipline, then she'll likely flake and run the other way.

So it can be done but it requires patience. It might take several weeks of texting and maybe 1-2 platonic dates before you can flip her. And target above average looking girls who may be overlooked, they'll probably appreciate your attention more. Forget the "innocent" model 10 tease girls, they've probably known since puberty how to make guys do stuff for them with minimum effort. While it's possible to flip any girl it comes down to how much time, money, and effort you're willing to put into it and how much game you have. For the average SD, if you can't find a common cord with a platonic girl to get her in a comfort zone, then you're probably better off moving on.

EDIT: I forgot to mention. A few years back I actually had a model 10 tease girl that finally put out. If you read the reports here I believe her name was College girl or something. She was basically a platonic girl that didn't put out initially and we broke up after about a month or two. Then on a whim I contacted her a year and a half later and she was eager to have a physical relationship. It wasn't me but some other great patriot SD managed to flip her and I got to enjoy the fruit of his labor. Some platonic girls are simply SBs that are still in their larva state.

[QUOTE=Walruscl;2935895]As I've mentioned in the past, even though I tend to swing liberal, my small venture into the bowl has been extremely eye-opening. My girl is smart, hard-working, has strong ethics, and she basically got screwed over by being born into a bad situation. Inherit a broken family headed up by a psycho-mom, on top of such poverty that she can't rely on family for getting any start-up traction in life, and that's that. Stick a fork in it, you're done.

Being the oldest meant the mom made the worst mistakes with her, causing a lot of acting-out during her HS years which set her farther behind. But even without that problem, the dice were seriously loaded against her. Without someone like me to be financial assistant, life couch, part-time therapist, tutor, you name it, I hate to think of where her trajectory would have landed her. And she really didn't deserve that bad rap.

Take someone who [I]doesn't[/I] retain their moral compass in such a bad environment and there's little to no hope of recovering from the tail spin.

I know that there are lots of examples of pull-up-by-the-bootstraps success stories, but I'll bet a lot of them had grounding in a good home. Or if not, they are outliers who beat some pretty brutal odds.[/QUOTE]Well said Walrus and a compassionate view of true sugaring. Your girl is one of the lucky ones who has a leg up thanks to you. It's nice to hear from a guy who is not just using a girl's situation to get some ass.

SBs must be having a tough summer. My old flame came back to me. She's on summer vacation with family in S. America till August. This is a case where walking away and cutting off contact hit her with the realization that I was the best option. As soon as I unblocked her on phone and email, the calls came flooding in. My guess is she'd been calling regularly since I disappeared.

Do you guys allow misbehaving SBs to come back or do you continue no contact? Since getting back in The Bowl and some vanilla dating I haven't found a suitable replacement. The SO chemistry is still there.

Dating so far has been dizzing. There's so many girls with similar problems. I swear my college experience wasn't so financially burdening. Being a SB is far more lucrative than a part-time job or a paid internship. The Bowl is an economy within itself. 🤑.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2937012]SBs must be having a tough summer. My old flame came back to me. She's on summer vacation with family in S. America till August. This is a case where walking away and cutting off contact hit her with the realization that I was the best option. As soon as I unblocked her on phone and email, the calls came flooding in. My guess is she'd been calling regularly since I disappeared.

Do you guys allow misbehaving SBs to come back or do you continue no contact? Since getting back in The Bowl and some vanilla dating I haven't found a suitable replacement. The SO chemistry is still there.

Dating so far has been dizzing. There's so many girls with similar problems. I swear my college experience wasn't so financially burdening. Being a SB is far more lucrative than a part-time job or a paid internship. The Bowl is an economy within itself. 🤑.[/QUOTE]Totally up to you but my answer is no. I find a new one. Once they flake they will always flake.

[QUOTE=Yorktown;2937038]Totally up to you but my answer is no. I find a new one. Once they flake they will always flake.[/QUOTE]And, taking them back reinforces their bad behavior and literally guarantees they will flake again.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2937107]And, taking them back reinforces their bad behavior and literally guarantees they will flake again.[/QUOTE]Considering taking her back, only because it's no cost. She doesn't want sugar. She wants the "relationship" and mentor aspect back. She's paying for her flight to FC to rekindle the flame. Confronted her about the flakiness and her response was that it was due to me and my rules. She says she was acting out because she know it would make me upset. Could be a load of crap, but no costs to me I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. Pushed for her to get on contraception. I'll keep my new harem going and see where this goes. Updates to follow.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2937197]Considering taking her back, only because it's no cost. She doesn't want sugar. She wants the "relationship" and mentor aspect back. She's paying for her flight to FC to rekindle the flame. Confronted her about the flakiness and her response was that it was due to me and my rules. She says she was acting out because she know it would make me upset. Could be a load of crap, but no costs to me I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. Pushed for her to get on contraception. I'll keep my new harem going and see where this goes. Updates to follow.[/QUOTE]My philosophies on "women management" really transcend payment. To me, a flaky female with no monetary expectation is still a flaky woman, and I don't like the time wasting or the headaches that go a long with it. For the most part I treat SBs the same as I would treat any other date and I actually never promise to pay them anything, only that I can be a good provider if they should decide they want to date me. The real benefits from SD sites are that it removes the awkwardness of trying to hit on girls more than half my age at a bar / club or on a civy dating site, and the girls I do meet are very NSA-minded and are accustomed to the idea of hooking up without getting too far into their SD's business. One reason I don't just use Match and POF is that the clingy factor is higher, those girls are looking to openly date rather than be discreet and I need privacy.

So, to me a flaky woman is what she is and is just a recurring pain in the ass. If I can't count on her to stay focused and respectful of my time, I can't count on her to be discreet or respect the other things I need.

But even when I did not need as much privacy and was not already in a LTR (which is where I believe you're at currently, if I'm understanding your situation), the one thing I found is that every moment I spent with a flaky girl is a moment that could either be spent with someone better or at least looking for someone better. In other words I realized at some point that it is not worth my time to continue along with someone who is a waste of time just because her pussy is always available.

I used to have girls like that, who would give me a free pass to stop by and fuck any time I want. But inevitably they always start grasping for more than just casual sex and I have to hear them whine about how they don't just want to be a late night booty call or whatever, after I already told them I was only interested in fooling around. Every 60 seconds I get involved in one of those conversations is 60 seconds that could be spent doing something else. They get increasingly clingy and try to guilt you into spending more of your life with them.

It really depends on what you want out of life but my goal at the time was to simply see if there was anyone out there worth trying a relationship with, and until I found her just fuck as many hot pussies as I could. This means there is no time or tolerance for the in-between mode. She's either someone I want to be with or she isn't. Next, next next. Etc.

Was always warned to stay away from these girls. And girls named Tiffany. LOL. Got one up for a second date and probably FC afterwards. FC will be at my place. I'm going through the risk and her potential level of craziness. Any feedback on SB hairdressers. She seems to not be desperate for cash. She works during the weekday, but has a roommate. Assuming she needs th cash to save for her own apartment.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2937302]Was always warned to stay away from these girls. And girls named Tiffany. LOL. Got one up for a second date and probably FC afterwards. FC will be at my place. I'm going through the risk and her potential level of craziness. Any feedback on SB hairdressers. She seems to not be desperate for cash. She works during the weekday, but has a roommate. Assuming she needs th cash to save for her own apartment.[/QUOTE]My wife worked 10 years for AVEDA at the corporate level, doing salon development. Half her time and energy was holding their hands and the other half of her time and energy was spent trying to slap some sense into them.

When she left, I asked if she wanted to open a hair salon. "No Fucking Way, Bitches be Crazy".

They are notoriously temperamental. They believe they have a "following" and their clients will cross town and fields of lava to bask in their creative genius (now translate this mentality into pussy). They will walk out on a salon en masses to try to teach the owner a lesson.

I had four dinner / lunch dates in three weeks with DnD, 23 Richmond on Seeking Arrangements. Said she needed time before anything intimate. So we did four dates in three weeks. Bought her 2 pair of shoes, VS bra and gave her some cash for summer school textbooks. Last date was lunch yesterday. She wasn't too talkative and keep asking what time it was. After an hour she remembered she had to leave earlier than expected.

I sent her a text last night that I didn't get a reply from. Now I see she blocked me on SA. I used my secondary profile to look and she is still online there. So definitely blocked.

I got rinsed for about 600 counting meals, shoes and cash. Take your chances with her if you dare.