"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2921273]Can't tell you how many hours of PUA stuff I watched from some dude with and English accent. It boiled down to "multilevel communication" or in other words being a nice guy and carrying on a normal conversation while feeling up the girl or girls. The naughtiness of it is what intrigues the girl and the fact that you aren't overt about it allows her to save face with her friends. Pretty simplistic and boring stuff.

There has to be a half dozen or so techniques that will work on 75% of the women out there. Not expecting to see a complete essay that covers every situation with every girl. But mentioned at one point was "ego suppression" or something like that. How about we start there?[/QUOTE]I talked a bit about ego regression in this post:

[url]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?9746-quot-Sugarbabies-quot-quot-Arrangements-quot-Amateurs-or-Not&p=2849195&viewfull=1#post2849195[/url]

That example is about as good as I can do without posting transcripts of email conversations (which I will never do here, because this forum is searchable and certain things can be linked back to me). The detail of the conversations aren't particularly useful anyway, because they are highly contextual.

So I guess going from that post, if you have a specific question I can try to answer it?

Also not sure about the PUA stuff you saw, but I personally think a lot of them are frauds. Maybe I just don't relate to their particular brand of game but I think these goofballs like Mystery that dress like they're putting on a magic show, complete with top hat and eye-liner are complete ass clowns. That might work in clubs in LA on teenybopper girls but if he tried to pull that crap in my world he'd never get laid. Neil Strauss is probably the most credible of the PUAs that I've read, and even he once said something like if you already banged 10 girls of your choice by the time you were 20 (I don't recall the exact number), your game was already developed enough that you probably won't benefit from his writings, so while I agreed with a lot of what he said I could never be one of his students. All of that stuff is really geared toward the totally socially awkward guy or late bloomer that needs a place to start.

And also if there are half a dozen techniques that work on 75% of the women out there, then I'd love someone to tell me about them because it has never been that simple or methodical for me.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2921298]

Also not sure about the PUA stuff you saw, but I personally think a lot of them are frauds. Maybe I just don't relate to their particular brand of game but I think these goofballs like Mystery that dress like they're putting on a magic show, complete with top hat and eye-liner are complete ass clowns. That might work in clubs in LA on teenybopper girls but if he tried to pull that crap in my world he'd never get laid. Neil Strauss is probably the most credible of the PUAs that I've read, and even he once said something like if you already banged 10 girls of your choice by the time you were 20 (I don't recall the exact number), your game was already developed enough that you probably won't benefit from his writings, so while I agreed with a lot of what he said I could never be one of his students. All of that stuff is really geared toward the totally socially awkward guy or late bloomer that needs a place to start.

And also if there are half a dozen techniques that work on 75% of the women out there, then I'd love someone to tell me about them because it has never been that simple or methodical for me.[/QUOTE]I agree that the "peacocking" and other garbage Mystery and others propose is insane. I've never tried it, and I never will. Their "model" for attraction is useful, if only to try and understand what attracts women.

Meehow I thought was able to take most of the Mystery style and leverage it with out being absurd. Lovedrop and Cajon also play a normal game.

I was lucky in my youth. Part of it was falling into the right crowd, and part of it was probably game. There's a Seinfeld episode where George is out with a new wallet. Inside the wallet is a picture of a model. The girl next to him sees the picture and says "is that your gf / wife?" George spins a tale from there, and gets the hot girl (well until George screws it up). This is essentially pre-qualification. If a model looking woman likes you, then others will automatically want you. When I hit Vegas with my pre-med baby, we have no problem finding an equally hot girl for a threesome. She picks the girl up at the club, and brings her to our table. Did I say I love Vegas?

Even though I was lucky in my 20's, I still managed to learn a bit from the PUA space. In some cases, it highlighted what I already knew. I had a few "no shit" moments too. It's going to take some time, but if you have the time it's worth looking into. You'll recognize garbage when you see it.

Ultimately, if you can keep a woman interested with conversation without creeping her out. You'll do fine.

BTW. Don't EVER pay for the bootcamps etc. You can pretty much find everything you'll need with torrents.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;2921338]I agree that the "peacocking" and other garbage Mystery and others propose is insane. I've never tried it, and I never will. Their "model" for attraction is useful, if only to try and understand what attracts women.

Meehow I thought was able to take most of the Mystery style and leverage it with out being absurd. Lovedrop and Cajon also play a normal game.

I was lucky in my youth. Part of it was falling into the right crowd, and part of it was probably game. There's a Seinfeld episode where George is out with a new wallet. Inside the wallet is a picture of a model. The girl next to him sees the picture and says "is that your gf / wife?" George spins a tale from there, and gets the hot girl (well until George screws it up). This is essentially pre-qualification. If a model looking woman likes you, then others will automatically want you. When I hit Vegas with my pre-med baby, we have no problem finding an equally hot girl for a threesome. She picks the girl up at the club, and brings her to our table. Did I say I love Vegas?

Even though I was lucky in my 20's, I still managed to learn a bit from the PUA space. In some cases, it highlighted what I already knew. I had a few "no shit" moments too. It's going to take some time, but if you have the time it's worth looking into. You'll recognize garbage when you see it.

Ultimately, if you can keep a woman interested with conversation without creeping her out. You'll do fine.[/QUOTE]There is probably something to be learned from any of them, but I think so many of them try to come up with a formula or method they can sell and make a career out of. The problem is that execution of any particular method starts to create a built-in bias, such that as the PUA is executing said method from memory, what he is really doing is inadvertently filtering out all of the opportunities that aren't responding to his method, without even realizing it (because those opportunities don't become apparent). This is why I'm a bigger fan of discarding as many canned methods, plans, tactics, etc. As possible and focus on one thing and one thing only -- understanding the female mind. I believe that focusing on that singular task pays the greatest rewards in the greatest number of situations.

Does peacocking work for Mystery? Perhaps, in Hollywood clubs on 20 year olds. Will it work for him when he's 50? Nope, not unless he has another career he has managed well and made a success at. No sugar baby is going to be impressed by someone who has made a career as a "professional pickup artist". Some sluttier LA UTRs will probably fuck him if he's willing to pay, but outside that small bubble market he is going to find a different way.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;2921338]
BTW. Don't EVER pay for the bootcamps etc. You can pretty much find everything you'll need with torrents.[/QUOTE]I can't even imagine being the type of person that would pay for something like that. If you want to see something creepy, search for those videos of George Sodini attending those PUA seminars (he was that guy that went mental and shot up an aerobics class because women wouldn't give him the time of day). I can't remember the name of the guy who held those seminars but I hope the Sodini tragedy ended his career as a professional PUA, proving his shit didn't work.

Talking about PUAs I should admit that I've always thought its one sure way to get the girls to drop down their pants. But mostly for financial reasons and time availability I never pursued it. While I am not interested anymore to pay for such training or seminars I am curious to know if there are good PUA trainers that's worth their salt. If yes, I would consider checking out their books that might help in improving one's game. Are there any recommendations.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2921371]There is probably something to be learned from any of them, but I think so many of them try to come up with a formula or method they can sell and make a career out of. The problem is that execution of any particular method starts to create a built-in bias, such that as the PUA is executing said method from memory, what he is really doing is inadvertently filtering out all of the opportunities that aren't responding to his method, without even realizing it (because those opportunities don't become apparent). This is why I'm a bigger fan of discarding as many canned methods, plans, tactics, etc. As possible and focus on one thing and one thing only -- understanding the female mind. I believe that focusing on that singular task pays the greatest rewards in the greatest number of situations.

Does peacocking work for Mystery? Perhaps, in Hollywood clubs on 20 year olds. Will it work for him when he's 50? Nope, not unless he has another career he has managed well and made a success at. No sugar baby is going to be impressed by someone who has made a career as a "professional pickup artist". Some sluttier LA UTRs will probably fuck him if he's willing to pay, but outside that small bubble market he is going to find a different way.

I can't even imagine being the type of person that would pay for something like that. If you want to see something creepy, search for those videos of George Sodini attending those PUA seminars (he was that guy that went mental and shot up an aerobics class because women wouldn't give him the time of day). I can't remember the name of the guy who held those seminars but I hope the Sodini tragedy ended his career as a professional PUA, proving his shit didn't work.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Lebruno;2922943]Talking about PUAs I should admit that I've always thought its one sure way to get the girls to drop down their pants. But mostly for financial reasons and time availability I never pursued it. While I am not interested anymore to pay for such training or seminars I am curious to know if there are good PUA trainers that's worth their salt. If yes, I would consider checking out their books that might help in improving one's game. Are there any recommendations.[/QUOTE]I look at the practice of game as any other skill, like mastery of a musical instrument or sport. When you want to be good at something, you study every available resource, even if you think its crap. To be a good guitar player you'd need to study a wide variety of musical styles and musicians. You're at an elevated level of study when you're able to listen to what they are actually doing from a technical standpoint and know how they are doing it at a deep level without getting distracted by things like whether you are a fan of their musical style or not. If you want to be the best at a sport, you don't just watch your favorite team play, you watch the best players from all teams. You also watch the worst and learn from their mistakes.

So, just know that if anyone recommends a particular PUA they are basically only saying "I like this particular PUAs style". It's a personal bias. It doesn't mean that PUA is necessarily better than any other. Its better to study as many as you can, take what you find as useful and develop it into your own style.

When I first embarked on developing my game I was basically still a pre-puberty kid. Information on the subject was few and far between, every now and then I would sneak a read on a helpful article in Penthouse or Playboy magazine, or I would pick up a tip here or there.

I can remember being maybe 10 or 11 years old and being in the school library. I was looking at an article in some women's magazine (maybe Cosmo? Glamour something like that I don't remember) that was giving girls advice on manipulating their man. My buddy at the time started busting my balls when he saw what I was reading, implying I was a fruit. I showed him what I was reading and why and he kind of looked at me like I was an evil genius. He wanted to read the article after I told him what I was doing and why. LOL.

Point is, you have to understand your opponent if you want to win. Read everything you can, the Internet makes it all dead easy to get to.

Had a date with a new SB. She's early 30's, single parent, divorced. She's a freelance writer and is getting alimony and child support. She's not in need of sugar, but it sounds like she wants a little bit of fun. She mentioned that she looks at a guys watch and shoes to determine his qualifications. I don't know how you got get an accurate assessment of a guy's wealth based on watch and shoes, but she swears by it. Her claim is that this is what most women look at to determine status. I personally don't think a girl can determine Payless loafers and a fake Rolex for the real thing. Does what she's saying hold any merit? I happened to be wearing my Rolex stainless steel Submariner and sneakers. I paid for our dinner with cash, but didn't press for the FC. Is this all that's required? Most younger SBs can't tell a Tag Heur from a Timex.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2926129]Had a date with a new SB. She's early 30's, single parent, divorced. She's a freelance writer and is getting alimony and child support. She's not in need of sugar, but it sounds like she wants a little bit of fun. She mentioned that she looks at a guys watch and shoes to determine his qualifications. I don't know how you got get an accurate assessment of a guy's wealth based on watch and shoes, but she swears by it. Her claim is that this is what most women look at to determine status. I personally don't think a girl can determine Payless loafers and a fake Rolex for the real thing. Does what she's saying hold any merit? I happened to be wearing my Rolex stainless steel Submariner and sneakers. I paid for our dinner with cash, but didn't press for the FC. Is this all that's required? Most younger SBs can't tell a Tag Heur from a Timex.[/QUOTE]I would have had to ask her why, if she wants only fun and not looking for financial aid, would she then try to qualify someone based on how much they spend on something petty like accessories (as opposed to a more meaningful and difficult-to-fake like their car)? She's already contradicting herself.

I've shown up to M&G's in sneakers before, but not like sneakers I've been wearing all day or have mud and grass stains on them like I've been doing yardwork or anything. If there's a chance the date will extend somewhere like a nightclub I would never do that, because I don't want to get shot down on dress code at the door, but in terms of what the girl thinks of me, one of the best aphrodisiacs on the planet for a female is an alpha male that just doesn't give a fuck what anyone thinks of him. Meaning, whatever you wear should be worn with the attitude that you couldn't care less what anyone thinks about your wardrobe, you do things your way and everyone else can go fuck themselves. THAT will make her hornier than any other factor combined. Doesn't mean you should show up looking shabby (and above all, good hygiene is critical), but if for one moment you give off the vibe that you're working to impress her, you're already behind in the game. You want to show up with the attitude that she needs to win YOUR attention. She should be focusing on whether she's good enough for you rather than vice versa.

I just mention this because sometimes they play these games where they want to see if they can get a cause and effect reaction from you, like if you'll show up with better shoes or a watch next time it's an indication you're their puppet, it's possible that's what she's doing. Or maybe she just has a fixation about accessories or something. Unless sneakers were inappropriate for the location I really wouldn't worry about it. No, it's not the norm for them to judge you by your watch or your shoes -- they notice a lot of things but neither of those are deal breakers. Wear whatever looks good on you and is appropriate to the event.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2926189]I would have had to ask her why, if she wants only fun and not looking for financial aid, would she then try to qualify someone based on how much they spend on something petty like accessories (as opposed to a more meaningful and difficult-to-fake like their car)? She's already contradicting herself.

I've shown up to M&G's in sneakers before, but not like sneakers I've been wearing all day or have mud and grass stains on them like I've been doing yardwork or anything. If there's a chance the date will extend somewhere like a nightclub I would never do that, because I don't want to get shot down on dress code at the door, but in terms of what the girl thinks of me, one of the best aphrodisiacs on the planet for a female is an alpha male that just doesn't give a fuck what anyone thinks of him. Meaning, whatever you wear should be worn with the attitude that you couldn't care less what anyone thinks about your wardrobe, you do things your way and everyone else can go fuck themselves. THAT will make her hornier than any other factor combined. Doesn't mean you should show up looking shabby (and above all, good hygiene is critical), but if for one moment you give off the vibe that you're working to impress her, you're already behind in the game. You want to show up with the attitude that she needs to win YOUR attention. She should be focusing on whether she's good enough for you rather than vice versa.

I just mention this because sometimes they play these games where they want to see if they can get a cause and effect reaction from you, like if you'll show up with better shoes or a watch next time it's an indication you're their puppet, it's possible that's what she's doing. Or maybe she just has a fixation about accessories or something. Unless sneakers were inappropriate for the location I really wouldn't worry about it. No, it's not the norm for them to judge you by your watch or your shoes -- they notice a lot of things but neither of those are deal breakers. Wear whatever looks good on you and is appropriate to the event.[/QUOTE]It's actually something ALL or most women do in real life and not just in the SB / SD world. All women want to feel protected and that means physically and financially.

Even the ones you meet in the civi world. A lot of my female friends tell me that they do look at how a guy dresses for many reasons.

1. To see if he is serious about the date. They want to see if they took the time to "dress up". Lets face it guys, women don't want to be out with a guy they think just.

Got out of bed or has on a stained shirt.

2. Yes they also try to determine if they have money. However, it has to be more obvious like if they are wearing cuff links, fancy watch, good clothes. Now I don't know if.

Any of them can pick out a real vs. Fake rolex. But if they are looking at that then they are just shallow gold digging ******. Yes even in real life.

3. The way a guy dresses can also give a clue to see if they may match. If the guy likes to be in t-shirts and shorts and the girl likes to get dressed up then maybe it may not.

Be a match. I once met a girl off of match for dinner and I came right from work so I was dressed in business casual. She did make a mention as to how she likes to dress.

Down. Clearly she thought business casual was too fancy. Well that tells me something about her.

The way a guy dresses does say a lot about the man and women do pay attention to that. I don't think it will determine the relationship but it does make an impact.

[QUOTE=Ltnric;2926225] The way a guy dresses does say a lot about the man and women do pay attention to that. I don't think it will determine the relationship but it does make an impact.[/QUOTE]Yes they do notice and it does have an impact, but they notice confidence more.

Given a choice between a guy in a $1500 suit that has "I sure hope you like me" written all over him and a guy that shows up in stylish casual that exudes confidence, the latter will win every time.

All things being equal? Displays of status are a good thing. But a smart woman will look at your car and your house, not your watch and your shoes which are easy to fake. The others aren't so smart, and if you're a player you'll end up with whatever you want from them no matter what.

I guess what I'm saying is don't overspend on a watch and shoes thinking it will make a big difference with SBs. These girls wouldn't be able to spot a fake Rolex and they won't be able to tell a $100 pair of shoes from a $1 k pair unless they see the brand tag (which is rarely on the outside).

And even if they do identify you as a high-dollar item, it's going to amplify their game as a high-dollar-pussy, so it will only cost you more.

I'd rather run game and get them to fuck me because they want to fuck me, not what's on my wrist or feet.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2926129]Had a date with a new SB. She's early 30's, single parent, divorced. She's a freelance writer and is getting alimony and child support. She's not in need of sugar, but it sounds like she wants a little bit of fun. She mentioned that she looks at a guys watch and shoes to determine his qualifications. I don't know how you got get an accurate assessment of a guy's wealth based on watch and shoes, but she swears by it. Her claim is that this is what most women look at to determine status. I personally don't think a girl can determine Payless loafers and a fake Rolex for the real thing. Does what she's saying hold any merit? I happened to be wearing my Rolex stainless steel Submariner and sneakers. I paid for our dinner with cash, but didn't press for the FC. Is this all that's required? Most younger SBs can't tell a Tag Heur from a Timex.[/QUOTE]I wonder what she'd think of all the guys who do not care to wear a watch, but rather carry a cellphone. I have heard the shoes thing before from strippers.

The issue I see with my SB's is that we are at different places in life. These SB's are all about brands and showing off those brands. They will pay 1,200 dollars for a Louis Vuitton bag just for the name. After you've grown old, you could care less what people think of you. I buy things that are practical. I could easily afford a Lamborghini, but much rather drive a five year old Expedition. In the eyes of some of these GPS bitches, I must be broke.

[QUOTE=SugarDaddyX;2926870]I wonder what she'd think of all the guys who do not care to wear a watch, but rather carry a cellphone. I have heard the shoes thing before from strippers.

The issue I see with my SB's is that we are at different places in life. These SB's are all about brands and showing off those brands. They will pay 1,200 dollars for a Louis Vuitton bag just for the name. After you've grown old, you could care less what people think of you. I buy things that are practical. I could easily afford a Lamborghini, but much rather drive a five year old Expedition. In the eyes of some of these GPS bitches, I must be broke.[/QUOTE]No watch for me. I sit in front of a computer all day and have my phone other times. I usually go straight from work to my dinner date with casual wear from Walmart. Even more frugal is that I drive a Chevy Cobalt. But I am meeting up with women who think $200 is fine for dinner and a trip to the FC. I prefer to present myself as a thrifty old guy. Then when I surprise them with a gift, they seem appreciative.

My general rule of thumb is that if you want to spend money on nice things because you like them, or you're a connoisseur of expensive watches or shoes or whatever, you're a lover of Lamborghinis, then by all means indulge if it makes you happy. What I would never recommend to anyone is spending money on things that you wouldn't otherwise buy, just for the sole purpose of trying to impress women -- if you try to impress them by external displays of success, they read it as a sign of trying to compensate for other insecurities. Makes you a bleeding fish among sharks.

Personally I tend to like nice things, like cars. But I didn't buy a nice car to impress ladies, honestly maybe only half of them ever see what I drive (sometimes I'll schedule dinner within walking distance to wherever I'm staying, or my car is tucked away in a parking deck somewhere). And the ones that do just bug me to let them drive it, so I'd rather keep it out of their sight as much as possible.

I once knew a girl that told me about a neighbor she used to look out the window and lust after. She said he was constantly in his driveway cleaning his motorcycle, always polishing it, etc. She said he wasn't all that cute and the motorcycle was nothing spectacular, she said what was attractive was just watching how passionate he was about something. So yeah, if you drop a fat dime on a nice yacht, and she can tell you have a passion for the water and didn't just buy it to impress women, she will probably be impressed by the boat. More than that she will probably just want pics of herself on the boat to post to Facebook to show off for her friends, effectively taking advantage of the backdrop. LOL.

My thoughts are as long as the sb is getting her agreed on arrangement she could care less what you have or show up in. If you show up in expensive clothes and cars and trying to put them on a pb&jelly arrangement then to most your a dick, vain, arrogant who thinks your better than them. Then these same guys classify them as GPS. All these girls want is a good arrangement that's fair and to be treated with respect. The arrangement is all that matters to most because after its all said and done you are paying them. Most doesn't even like you and put on a good show because you are paying well. When you think you have game cut the sugar off and see how long they hang. There are always exceptions to everything but to most as long as they feel that the arrangement is good for them they will tolerate you.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2926258]Yes they do notice and it does have an impact, but they notice confidence more.

Given a choice between a guy in a $1500 suit that has "I sure hope you like me" written all over him and a guy that shows up in stylish casual that exudes confidence, the latter will win every time.

[/QUOTE]There's nothing wrong with dressing well. I have the suits, watches, and shoes. Some times I wear them, and some times I don't. Confidence is the key, but looking the part is also. First impressions are lasting.

I had a friend in SF about a decade ago that was a fashionista. I asked her on a date one night what she looked at on a guy during the first date. Her answer was interesting. She mentioned shoes, general level of dress, and then she said his nails. She said that she could tell how a guy would take care of her based on how he took care of his nails. I thought it was rubbish, but I've since heard from other women about dates with guys with long dirty nails. Maybe she was on to something.

Another baby in the rotation that just wants romance and a nice shag - 24 bisexual latina with curves. Lunch one day last week followed by three hours in the FC. Total cost (not including room) $40 for lunch.

Hopefully. Everyone is having this sort of luck!

[QUOTE=BikeRider;2927473]There's nothing wrong with dressing well. [/QUOTE]Agreed, I was just saying that the definition of "dressing well" is to dress appropriately for the occasion, and more importantly wear what looks good on you. I once had a buddy that let a female dictate his wardrobe for him. He gave her a budget of a few thousand and a list of his sizes to go shopping for him in NYC. Every single item she brought back looked rediculous on him, he sent most of it back and I don't think wore any of it. None of it conicided well with his character or personality. Just because its brand name doesn't mean it looks good on everyone.

The main point I was making to Hoya is that it seemed like this girl was pushing his buttons by saying she "judged his qualifications" by his watch and shoes. It sounds like she was negging him because she didn't like his sneakers, and this was coming from someone who was telling him she doesn't need sugar. Much bigger story behind my post than just clothes and watches. It's never a good idea to show up looking like a bum.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;2927473]
I had a friend in SF about a decade ago that was a fashionista. I asked her on a date one night what she looked at on a guy during the first date. Her answer was interesting. She mentioned shoes, general level of dress, and then she said his nails. She said that she could tell how a guy would take care of her based on how he took care of his nails. I thought it was rubbish, but I've since heard from other women about dates with guys with long dirty nails. Maybe she was on to something.[/QUOTE]The nails thing is a whole different story, that comes under the category of grooming / hygiene and like I said this always needs to be top notch, its not a matter of compensating for insecurities or anything like that. Women will definitely look at your fingernails, and it makes perfect sense when you think about it -- those fingers might end up in her cooch and ass later on.

They don't want to see hangnails and rough or hard skin on the sides of your fingers -- think about it, it would be painful, and be annoying for them during foreplay. Same goes for dirty / discolored nails, that's a good way to scare them off. I have a white collar career, but my hands are prone to getting calluses from working out at the gym (even with gloves on). A callus remover and filing off rough skin is about the best solution for that. Even women who say they like their men rugged don't want crusty hands feeling them up. The softer the better, and it sometimes takes work to get them there. I always do a last minute hangnail check before a date. As far as having perfectly oiled cuticles or anything like that, that may be overkill if not a little too metrosexual - to the point of being prissy / feminine / gay, which is a turn off for most women. So I don't think they are expecting a professional manicure, just nice and clean nails that demonstrate the guy takes care of his body. If a guy is a schlub that doesn't exercise and eat well, but shows up with perfectly manicured nails, he is kind of defeating the purpose of the well-kept nails.

Nooo. Nothing like that.

They are all greedy over here. Dang.

Enjoy.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;2927478]Another baby in the rotation that just wants romance and a nice shag - 24 bisexual latina with curves. Lunch one day last week followed by three hours in the FC. Total cost (not including room) $40 for lunch.

Hopefully. Everyone is having this sort of luck![/QUOTE]

Hoya. You're meeting is typical of what most sbs and ladies in general look for. You're correct, these days, most younger sbs and younger women in general can't tell the difference between a timex and tag heur. But they're not in the bowl (more often than not at least) to find their future husband. They play in the bowl because they are looking for a guy that will drop money on them.

I've found that women in general are more complex than men. Younger girls aren't generally looking for solid reliable men who invest their money wisely in solid real estate and avoid spending on frivolous things. They are looking for guys who will drop $300 on a dinner at a trendy restaurant so that they can brag to their friends. Ideally, that same guy will be so loaded with cash that he will also have a waterfront vacation home as well.

We all know that men who have the ability to afford both are few and far between. Given a choice though, the average young woman will choose the guy who is willing to drop money on frivolous items because it shows that the guy will be willing to spend money on her.

Later in life though, these same girls will evolve to desire a guy that spends money on things like a nice house and investments, because at that point they will desire security over fun.

So yes, if you're looking to have sex with a young lady, best to wear nice clothes and have the latest expensive items that depreciate in value quickly (e. G. Nice cars, newest phones, etc.). These girls expect to be taken to nice hotels for the FC, so most won't give a rats ass if you live in a one room shack or a mansion, so long as you're driving a Porshe, have a look that compliments them well on the pictures they post on their Twitter feed, and are taking them to the four seasons for the FC sessions.

Eventually they will want to settle down though and make babies, and then they will think that they can convince that same guy to spend the money they were once dropping on Rolex watches and expensive cars, on a nice house in a good school district.

But at the end of the day, bike rider put it best. A guy wearing a $15,000 armani tailored suit doesn't hold a candle to a guy who is casually dressed in something tasteful and who exudes real confidence.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2926129]Had a date with a new SB. She's early 30's, single parent, divorced. She's a freelance writer and is getting alimony and child support. She's not in need of sugar, but it sounds like she wants a little bit of fun. She mentioned that she looks at a guys watch and shoes to determine his qualifications. I don't know how you got get an accurate assessment of a guy's wealth based on watch and shoes, but she swears by it. Her claim is that this is what most women look at to determine status. I personally don't think a girl can determine Payless loafers and a fake Rolex for the real thing. Does what she's saying hold any merit? I happened to be wearing my Rolex stainless steel Submariner and sneakers. I paid for our dinner with cash, but didn't press for the FC. Is this all that's required? Most younger SBs can't tell a Tag Heur from a Timex.[/QUOTE]

Based on bike riders posts, I get the impression that he plays in some of the same regions that we play. I think I remember him posting that he plays, at least in part, in the ny market. That is a city that I have yet to have much success in.

My educated guess is that the force is strong with this Jedi Knight.

[QUOTE=FTP1999;2927554]Nooo. Nothing like that.

They are all greedy over here. Dang.
Enjoy.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2927905]Based on bike riders posts, I get the impression that he plays in some of the same regions that we play. I think I remember him posting that he plays, at least in part, in the ny market. That is a city that I have yet to have much success in.

My educated guess is that the force is strong with this Jedi Knight.[/QUOTE]LOL. Just an average lucky padawan.

I some times think the clueless brothers on SA (none from this board, of course, since you've already RTFM) are my biggest allies. I've an upcoming date with a young lady that only wants small gifts so she can hit the spa, or get a mani. She texted me while she was on her first date from SA. Her first message was "OMG save me I'm on a date with a moron". The gentleman had presented himself as a man of means. Yet, he asked the lady to pick him up from a sketchy strip mall. While in the car, he asks if she'll drive to a park (it was pouring rain) for "privacy". She refuses, and they hit Fridays. It went down hill from there. All I could think of was. I appreciate the prep-work mate!

Learning points from the moron: #1 Don't claim to be something if you aren't, or can't fake incredibly well. The moron failed on this from his lack of transportation, trying to steer his date towards car sex, and ending up at Fridays. #2 Don't bring up sex, and especially don't try for it until you've built up some chemistry and attraction. I'll usually bring up sex obliquely during a conversation. This is non-threatening to your date / POT. She'll either ignore it in which case you've a lot more work to do, or she'll run with it. This allows your date / POT to bring up the topic! In fact, I had one date where the discussion was very explicit. My date stops at one point and says "I can't believe we're talking about this. We should stop! I looked at her and said "you brought it up". She laughed. Tossed her hair back, and continued speaking explicitly. Another good response would have been "and yet you seem to like it so much!" The point here is I didn't apologize. Some guys are concerned that they've offended the girl, and apologize. This will backfire on you every time. Instead, I put it back on her and challenged her. Women don't want to be with a weak guy. They also don't want to be with a jerk. There's a fine line between confidence and being a jerk. The key is to get as close to the line as you can and not cross it.

I love NY, and it is honestly the easiest city for me. I can easily find overnight's for $300 or less with non-UTRs. I'm not fishing there right now as I've more than I can handle currently (all freebees except for one, but she's already said I don't have to help her much any more). PM me, and I'll forward the intel I have that is still accurate.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;2928226]
The gentleman had presented himself as a man of means. Yet, he asked the lady to pick him up from a sketchy strip mall. While in the car, he asks if she'll drive to a park (it was pouring rain) for "privacy". She refuses, and they hit Fridays. It went down hill from there. All I could think of was. I appreciate the prep-work mate![/QUOTE]Unfortunately there is a large segment of guys who see SBs as just a renamed version of upscale escorting, it sounds like that's what her date was expecting. To see what I mean just view some of the SB threads in some other cities. They post "reviews" and "reports", trade info on girls, swap them around like streetwalkers. I actually forget that whole side of things even exists, because if I get even a hint that a girl is a UTR, escort, or even a serial SB then I break contact with them.

A lot has been written here in the past about the definition of a "true" SB versus UTR / escort so I'm not sure I see value in going there again, especially with the increasing proliferation of bowl-related discussions in other cities on this forum (a situation that makes it increasingly more pointless to intelligently discuss the distinction).

The important thing to remember (and what I remind myself of constantly) is that my perspective is sometimes limited by my own bias. I barely give suspect-UTRs a second glance, therefore I tend to forget they exist on the site, but no doubt they are there. I can look through my e-mail at the ones that have viewed my profile or favorited me, and across various cities I probably get dozens of likely UTR hits per week, but mentally they don't exist to me.

And likewise, someone could cruise an SD site, and because of any number of factors (their behavior, their profile wording, etc.) the girls I would consider true SBs may not be responding to them. Therefore they are only able to set up dates with the UTRs, and come to the conclusion that this is what all SBs are.

Are any of you having major dry spells right now? I sure am. I've had 4 meet and greets set up and they all went radio silent the day off. It's been terrible. I'm in blue ball city.

[QUOTE=Donwhite;2928669]Are any of you having major dry spells right now? I sure am. I've had 4 meet and greets set up and they all went radio silent the day off. It's been terrible. I'm in blue ball city.[/QUOTE]Haven't seen M&G cancellations, but because a decent percent of my POTs are college students, things can get really hit or miss after finals around mid-May. It just shakes up their schedule such that their availability changes (they temporarily move back to their home city where their parents are or whatever). Sometimes they contact me about meeting in a different city, or ask if I can reimburse them for travel to me, or sometimes they just go missing and suddenly you get an e-mail weeks or months later. If you operate primarily in one metro area you might print out the academic calendar for relevant schools from their website -- help sometimes with predicting these changes. Even if your target demographic isn't college girls then its still possible that the shift in supply and demand that occurs when school is out could still affect your efforts if more guys are competing for attention due to school outages.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2928693]Haven't seen M&G cancellations, but because a decent percent of my POTs are college students, things can get really hit or miss after finals around mid-May. It just shakes up their schedule such that their availability changes (they temporarily move back to their home city where their parents are or whatever). Sometimes they contact me about meeting in a different city, or ask if I can reimburse them for travel to me, or sometimes they just go missing and suddenly you get an e-mail weeks or months later. If you operate primarily in one metro area you might print out the academic calendar for relevant schools from their website -- help sometimes with predicting these changes. Even if your target demographic isn't college girls then its still possible that the shift in supply and demand that occurs when school is out could still affect your efforts if more guys are competing for attention due to school outages.[/QUOTE]Another thing to keep in mind is that school is just about over and many of those delicious babies will be heading back home.

[QUOTE=Donwhite;2928669]Are any of you having major dry spells right now? I sure am. I've had 4 meet and greets set up and they all went radio silent the day off. It's been terrible. I'm in blue ball city.[/QUOTE]The ebb and flow of the bowl.

I've been where you are, but right now I'm on good ride. Stay the course and you'll be back on top (no pun intended) soon.

I head back to Asia for a month next week. My pediatrician baby is with me for 10 days (no way I'm showing pics of her as she may be my second wife). I'm free for 10 days, and the attached pic (long time friend) is with me the last 10.

Total cost. ~$100 for airport fees and taxes. I used miles to get my ped baby a first class round trip ticket. I think she's more excited about flying first class Internationally than she is to see me! My friend in the pic is based in Asia so she's local.

Any of you Richmond daddy's had any contact with her. I've had a couple of meetings with her and have some concerns. Just want to exchange some intel. Also. If you have been seeing Veronica and are interested in some info, hit me up. I've seen her several times and had an experience you might want to hear about.

Stay Safe. Stark.

[QUOTE=Starkey2008;2929931]Any of you Richmond daddy's had any contact with her. I've had a couple of meetings with her and have some concerns. Just want to exchange some intel. Also. If you have been seeing Veronica and are interested in some info, hit me up. I've seen her several times and had an experience you might want to hear about.

Stay Safe. Stark.[/QUOTE]You can PM me.

Stark.

Newly single and dating about in my local area. While on a M&G, I run into an old SB that I spent a few months dating. It was a good match, but I lost interest a few cancellations and being flakey. There wasn't a verbal argument or anything. I cut her loose by ignoring her and I eventually blocked her text and emails. She showed low interest, so I kept it moving. I didn't see it as something that would bite me in the ass.

Long story short, I run into her while I'm the date with the new girl. We make eye contact. There was nothing obvious to my date either. I'm cool under pressure and I keep the date convo going over drinks. After the dinner date I go to my car and my driver side door has a deep scratch about 12" long. WTF? Very strange situation. Girl shows little interest, I move on. It's been several months since we last chatted and out of spite she pulls this crap.

Surprisingly, I'm not upset. I have noticed that I do see SBs on my side of town occasionally. That shows me how many college age girls are on SA. Maybe it's better to have a SB leave you first 😉.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2930262]Newly single and dating about in my local area. While on a M&G, I run into an old SB that I spent a few months dating. It was a good match, but I lost interest a few cancellations and being flakey. There wasn't a verbal argument or anything. I cut her loose by ignoring her and I eventually blocked her text and emails. She showed low interest, so I kept it moving. I didn't see it as something that would bite me in the ass.

Long story short, I run into her while I'm the date with the new girl. We make eye contact. There was nothing obvious to my date either. I'm cool under pressure and I keep the date convo going over drinks. After the dinner date I go to my car and my driver side door has a deep scratch about 12" long. WTF? Very strange situation. Girl shows little interest, I move on. It's been several months since we last chatted and out of spite she pulls this crap.

Surprisingly, I'm not upset. I have noticed that I do see SBs on my side of town occasionally. That shows me how many college age girls are on SA. Maybe it's better to have a SB leave you first 😉.[/QUOTE]Seems like even large metro areas are a small world. This is a good example of why I don't date close to home. Running into old flames is something I've rarely been able to avoid. Luckily they aren't always vengeful, so when single it wasn't that big of a deal, but now that I have something I don't want to lose, well. . .

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2930262]Newly single and dating about in my local area. While on a M&G, I run into an old SB that I spent a few months dating. It was a good match, but I lost interest a few cancellations and being flakey. There wasn't a verbal argument or anything. I cut her loose by ignoring her and I eventually blocked her text and emails. She showed low interest, so I kept it moving. I didn't see it as something that would bite me in the ass.

Long story short, I run into her while I'm the date with the new girl. We make eye contact. There was nothing obvious to my date either. I'm cool under pressure and I keep the date convo going over drinks. After the dinner date I go to my car and my driver side door has a deep scratch about 12" long. WTF? Very strange situation. Girl shows little interest, I move on. It's been several months since we last chatted and out of spite she pulls this crap.

Surprisingly, I'm not upset. I have noticed that I do see SBs on my side of town occasionally. That shows me how many college age girls are on SA. Maybe it's better to have a SB leave you first 😉.[/QUOTE]I feel for you brother. What do you think it will cost to get the paint fixed, a couple hundred?

I was seeing a SB earlier this year that I had lost interest in after a couple dates because it was like I was paying her to get off. I tolerated it for a couple sessions, thinking maybe she would warm up to me, but that never happened. She wouldn't French kiss, wouldn't suck my dick on her own initiative (only after I told her to), and would be done after 60-75 minutes of sex (I can go for hours with 3-4 pops), asking me if I could cum after she got her multiple O's in. I addressed these issues to her, but her performance was unchanged. I was paying a competitive allowance equal to what she was making post taxes weekly at her crappy job. I ignored her for a month, during which time she texted me almost every day for a month with nude pics and videos, begging to meet again. She clearly did not get the message. After a month I told her again there was little mutual benefit in this relationship and blocked her number. I even had to shut down my sugar account; she became like a stalker. Luckily, she never saw my vehicle or got any of personal information. Thank goodness I was using hotels for the FC.

This is why, as painful as it is in the short term, I think it is important to be clear when you are ending it. Karmically, just flaking out and ignoring her can come back to bite you.

[QUOTE=SugarDaddyX;2930424]
She wouldn't French kiss, wouldn't suck my dick on her own initiative (only after I told her to), and would be done after 60-75 minutes of sex (I can go for hours with 3-4 pops), asking me if I could cum after she got her multiple O's in. I addressed these issues to her, but her performance was unchanged. I was paying a competitive allowance equal to what she was making post taxes weekly at her crappy job. I ignored her for a month, during which time she texted me almost every day for a month with nude pics and videos, begging to meet again. She clearly did not get the message. After a month I told her again there was little mutual benefit in this relationship and blocked her number. I even had to shut down my sugar account; she became like a stalker. Luckily, she never saw my vehicle or got any of personal information. Thank goodness I was using hotels for the FC.[/QUOTE]No matter what you do, nobody likes rejection. She might not have been into you, but she was competitive enough to resent you making the 1st move -and losing the allowance. Yes. We are paying for a service, but we need to make it clear up front what we are expecting for our allowance. Most girls do not love raw fucking like we guys do. There are exceptions. But they are more interested in feelings and connections -heart to heart. That is why many SBs just lie there and tolerate it. I doubt if even a small % of girls would be up for 4 hours of porn activity and multiple pops. They are not feeling the love-in fact, it makes them feel like a piece of meat -a living, breathing fuck doll if you will. Porn actresses are paid $ 1000 + / session to lie there and take it in 3 holes and act like they like it. But in the end -having your ass pounded for several hours by a guy who you care nothing for is at best a job. Look for the Unicorn who is into you and sex, but enjoy the girl who will at least lie there and let you pound away. It's an attitude change, that's all.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2930262] I cut her loose by ignoring her and I eventually blocked her text and emails. She showed low interest, so I kept it moving. I didn't see it as something that would bite me in the ass.
.[/QUOTE]Girls are vengeful little creatures. I make them leave me if I am done. I will cut their allowance due to business slump, SO discovery, whatever. Tell her you really love being with her and you hope she will be understanding. Keep cutting until she leaves -and she will. If she is willing to take you on for free, then you got a deal. Remember the term "going Postal?" These fired employees went back and shot people because they were so distraught at the perceived unfairness of being let go. Let them fire you.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2930751]Girls are vengeful little creatures. I make them leave me if I am done. I will cut their allowance due to business slump, SO discovery, whatever. Tell her you really love being with her and you hope she will be understanding. Keep cutting until she leaves -and she will. If she is willing to take you on for free, then you got a deal. Remember the term "going Postal?" These fired employees went back and shot people because they were so distraught at the perceived unfairness of being let go. Let them fire you.[/QUOTE]If possible, ALWAYS get them to initiate the breakup or force them to fade. As soon as they indicate any dissatisfaction, seize on it and nourish that flame. Dumping them results in their ego taking over, and stupid shit happens after that.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2930751]Girls are vengeful little creatures. I make them leave me if I am done. I will cut their allowance due to business slump, SO discovery, whatever. Tell her you really love being with her and you hope she will be understanding. Keep cutting until she leaves -and she will. If she is willing to take you on for free, then you got a deal. Remember the term "going Postal?" These fired employees went back and shot people because they were so distraught at the perceived unfairness of being let go. Let them fire you.[/QUOTE]While there are still females on the planet that are not vindictive by nature, it is safe to assume that any girl you meet on an SD site has the potential to go sideways. The same daddy issues, sense of entitlement, lack of work ethic and other elements that land them on a website searching for an SD (combined with their age & maturity) are the same elements that make them highly prone to going sideways emotionally. No matter how sweet or stable they seem, it's best to assume that they WILL go off the rails under the right conditions. One of those conditions that occurs frequently is when you cut them loose.

Just as FM says, it's best to learn the art of making them want to avoid you. I have not mastered the art yet, but I can speak about what has worked for me and what hasn't. When it's time to cut ties, I try to actually start contacting them more frequently instead of the natural tendency to contact them less. Contacting them less frequently will just invoke the "pursuer" instinct in them, make them wonder what's wrong and gear their mind toward "scorned" mode. You want the opposite, for them to feel pursued. This makes them gravitate toward others (boyfriends their age, other SDs, or just their friends in general). Ideally you'd like them to feel a bit smothered or overwhelmed, but I find that to require an unrealistic amount of my time (especially texting them constantly).

Sometimes I will just lead conversation down some path that will inevitably lead to some sort argument. Sometimes it's enough, but sometimes it backfires. It's better to simply find what repels them. Sometimes it's anything that requires them to think logically, or explain themselves in a way that requires complete truth. Cite their contradictions, send them cut-and-paste evidence (or phone screenshots of what they said prior) to call them out on all the times they said something you knew wasn't true. A lot of them are repelled by truth -- they live a life that is based on how they want to perceive things rather than the truth, so when presented with conclusive evidence of truth, they are unable to process it any other way than by making themselves scarce, and this is what you want. You want THEM to decide it's over and the sugar is no longer worth the time and effort.

What about the girls that are honest, forthright, what-you-see-is-what-you-get people who deal with truth every day? Well if you ever meet one of those on an SD site, let me know. But if you do, you won't have to worry about the tactics mentioned above, because they are not the type that will go sideways on you, they are the type where you can say exactly what's on your mind and they will understand.

Then there are other, less fair ways I'm sure like telling her you just got diagnosed with an STD, or just disappearing, and so on but I do believe in karma and most of those tactics have some sort of potentially unpleasant side effect. If you want to break clean the above method works as well as anything I've found.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2930751]Girls are vengeful little creatures. I make them leave me if I am done. I will cut their allowance due to business slump, SO discovery, whatever. Tell her you really love being with her and you hope she will be understanding. Keep cutting until she leaves -and she will. If she is willing to take you on for free, then you got a deal. Remember the term "going Postal?" These fired employees went back and shot people because they were so distraught at the perceived unfairness of being let go. Let them fire you.[/QUOTE]I use the same excuses as Fred. If the baby is into me, then I use the SO approach. She cares for me so she'll understand and want me to be safe. If she views me as an ATM, I use a business excuse.

You might be surprised what happens. One of my free baby's started out on the payroll, and she became a bit too demanding. I told her business was getting bad, and I needed to cut her off. Two years later, she's still in the rotation without being on payroll. Every other baby, however, has disappeared.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;2931093]I use the same excuses as Fred. If the baby is into me, then I use the SO approach. She cares for me so she'll understand and want me to be safe. If she views me as an ATM, I use a business excuse.

You might be surprised what happens. One of my free baby's started out on the payroll, and she became a bit too demanding. I told her business was getting bad, and I needed to cut her off. Two years later, she's still in the rotation without being on payroll. Every other baby, however, has disappeared.[/QUOTE]A reduction in allowance is a good strategy overall, too. I've had it backfire on me a couple of times in the past, where it brought out kind of a nurturing side of them in the ones that were looking for something real (they started trying to demonstrate how understanding they can be, assuring me not to worry and they'll be there for me through hard times, etc which I assume is their way of presenting themselves as good GF or wife material), so I'd say this is a good strategy if you do like the idea of keeping them around but off the payroll. Free GF pussy is not a bad thing to have, it's just not my goal since I already have that at home. With me it's rarely about money, when I want to cut ties it typically means I don't want to see them or hear from them at all.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2931044]While there are still females on the planet that are not vindictive by nature, it is safe to assume that any girl you meet on an SD site has the potential to go sideways. The same daddy issues, sense of entitlement, lack of work ethic and other elements that land them on a website searching for an SD (combined with their age & maturity) are the same elements that make them highly prone to going sideways emotionally. No matter how sweet or stable they seem, it's best to assume that they WILL go off the rails under the right conditions. One of those conditions that occurs frequently is when you cut them loose.

Just as FM says, it's best to learn the art of making them want to avoid you. I have not mastered the art yet, but I can speak about what has worked for me and what hasn't. When it's time to cut ties, I try to actually start contacting them more frequently instead of the natural tendency to contact them less. Contacting them less frequently will just invoke the "pursuer" instinct in them, make them wonder what's wrong and gear their mind toward "scorned" mode. You want the opposite, for them to feel pursued. This makes them gravitate toward others (boyfriends their age, other SDs, or just their friends in general). Ideally you'd like them to feel a bit smothered or overwhelmed, but I find that to require an unrealistic amount of my time (especially texting them constantly).

Sometimes I will just lead conversation down some path that will inevitably lead to some sort argument. Sometimes it's enough, but sometimes it backfires. It's better to simply find what repels them. Sometimes it's anything that requires them to think logically, or explain themselves in a way that requires complete truth. Cite their contradictions, send them cut-and-paste evidence (or phone screenshots of what they said prior) to call them out on all the times they said something you knew wasn't true. A lot of them are repelled by truth -- they live a life that is based on how they want to perceive things rather than the truth, so when presented with conclusive evidence of truth, they are unable to process it any other way than by making themselves scarce, and this is what you want. You want THEM to decide it's over and the sugar is no longer worth the time and effort.

What about the girls that are honest, forthright, what-you-see-is-what-you-get people who deal with truth every day? Well if you ever meet one of those on an SD site, let me know. But if you do, you won't have to worry about the tactics mentioned above, because they are not the type that will go sideways on you, they are the type where you can say exactly what's on your mind and they will understand.

Then there are other, less fair ways I'm sure like telling her you just got diagnosed with an STD, or just disappearing, and so on but I do believe in karma and most of those tactics have some sort of potentially unpleasant side effect. If you want to break clean the above method works as well as anything I've found.[/QUOTE]Clearly all or some of the things mentioned before will work alone or in combination, but I don't find it that complicated. Over the years I've learned if you want to get rid of a woman just take a dump on something that is clearly very close to her and sit back and wait.

It can be Jesus / religion (really, laugh at a girl that believes a boat half the size of a football field held all the animals on the earth. Well, you get it). Or it can be the brother that got bounced out of the Air Force (that's an easy one). It can also be the father on disability that isn't disabled. Bottom line, just pick one that she loves and smear it. I've managed to get a chick to break up with me over lunch.

I just don't think it's necessary to to pull the Wyle E. Coyote thing to get it done. Just my opinion.

Good luck.

[QUOTE=FirstHalf;2931433]Clearly all or some of the things mentioned before will work alone or in combination, but I don't find it that complicated. Over the years I've learned if you want to get rid of a woman just take a dump on something that is clearly very close to her and sit back and wait.

It can be Jesus / religion (really, laugh at a girl that believes a boat half the size of a football field held all the animals on the earth. Well, you get it). Or it can be the brother that got bounced out of the Air Force (that's an easy one). It can also be the father on disability that isn't disabled. Bottom line, just pick one that she loves and smear it. I've managed to get a chick to break up with me over lunch.

I just don't think it's necessary to to pull the Wyle E. Coyote thing to get it done. Just my opinion.

Good luck.[/QUOTE]Each of our opinions are shaped by our own personal experiences. The one thing I've learned is that the dynamics of interpersonal relationships is complex and can vary greatly from individual to individual.

Back in the day when I was married, I couldn't figure out why every time I had a fling, and that fling had run its course and it was time to move to another, the girl always ended up either stalking me, hiring a detective to figure out how to contact my wife or whatever, or just spreading the word among people who knew me back in the days of the bar and niteclub scene that they were going to out me and fuck up my relationship with my wife. I couldn't figure out if I just had a knack for attracting psycho girls or what.

A buddy of mine who was also married had a completely opposite experience. First he rarely ever really turned them loose, he just didn't move from girl to girl as fast as I did. But, when he did break ties, he never had any stalker issues to deal with.

Then once, even after swearing he would never take any of my seconds or discards, I encouraged him to hook up with a girl that I had cast aside (they already knew each other through me, and she had once commented that she thought he was nice looking, so I told him he should go for it because she's not bad in bed). Well I dated her about 3 weeks. He dated her for like 1. 5 years. When I dumped her she was threatening to slap the fuck out of my new girl, threatening to contact my wife, etc. When he stopped seeing her there was no such drama. Same girl, just different interpersonal dynamic.

So, cutting girls free and being absolutely sure they aren't going to key my car or whatever later is not quite as easy as insulting something dear to her. In fact the times I've tried that, it sort of fuels the future fire but does not directly send them away. It just gives them one more thing to be pissed at me about after the shit really hits the fan.

But, as always, anyone's mileage on this stuff will vary. This is why I always describe my experiences as one man's opinion, and only that. Nobody should expect to experience the exact same life as anyone else, everyone has to find what works best for them. For those who have a history of low-drama reactions from women upon breakup, I envy you, but it's rarely a smooth process for me.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2931523]Each of our opinions are shaped by our own personal experiences. The one thing I've learned is that the dynamics of interpersonal relationships is complex and can vary greatly from individual to individual.

Back in the day when I was married, I couldn't figure out why every time I had a fling, and that fling had run its course and it was time to move to another, the girl always ended up either stalking me, hiring a detective to figure out how to contact my wife or whatever, or just spreading the word among people who knew me back in the days of the bar and niteclub scene that they were going to out me and fuck up my relationship with my wife. I couldn't figure out if I just had a knack for attracting psycho girls or what.

A buddy of mine who was also married had a completely opposite experience. First he rarely ever really turned them loose, he just didn't move from girl to girl as fast as I did. But, when he did break ties, he never had any stalker issues to deal with.

Then once, even after swearing he would never take any of my seconds or discards, I encouraged him to hook up with a girl that I had cast aside (they already knew each other through me, and she had once commented that she thought he was nice looking, so I told him he should go for it because she's not bad in bed). Well I dated her about 3 weeks. He dated her for like 1. 5 years. When I dumped her she was threatening to slap the fuck out of my new girl, threatening to contact my wife, etc. When he stopped seeing her there was no such drama. Same girl, just different interpersonal dynamic.

So, cutting girls free and being absolutely sure they aren't going to key my car or whatever later is not quite as easy as insulting something dear to her. In fact the times I've tried that, it sort of fuels the future fire but does not directly send them away. It just gives them one more thing to be pissed at me about after the shit really hits the fan.

But, as always, anyone's mileage on this stuff will vary. This is why I always describe my experiences as one man's opinion, and only that. Nobody should expect to experience the exact same life as anyone else, everyone has to find what works best for them. For those who have a history of low-drama reactions from women upon breakup, I envy you, but it's rarely a smooth process for me.[/QUOTE]For sure, our beliefs and expectations are shaped by our experience. Only twice have I experienced a breakup [B]that I initiated[/B] as a drama free experience. I also take your point that following my lead my lead to fuel on the fire and all, but I probably made it sound too simple.

At the risk of sounding misogynistic, the fact is that women tend to be linked in for some sort of long term vision. Once you toss something out there that is "unfixable" you "break" that vision. I mean, if you don't respect her deeply held beliefs, where can it possibly go? You think her family are lowlifes? In what scenario would you think they aren't?

You get the idea. Just create the truth that there's no overcoming the obstacle that lies in front of her. She will move on.

Anyway, as you said, our own experiences and all.