"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

Been reading your board, some of your SM have given me some great advice, but I'm looking for a few opinions regarding non-SA POT's. I ran a ad on CL under a legit section and got a few responses from true coeds looking for employment. I've slowly disclosed what the actual job is, being a SB. I've had six responses and three m&g's, and another tomorrow afternoon, I've managed to make them curious enough and comfortable enough to hear my pitch. I had an agreement with one out of the three m&gs, but she got a case of conscience at the last minute and bailed. I need advice or tips on closing the deal, had another m&g last week and everything went great, she was super comfortable with me, we had a four hour dinner and closed the restaurant, but she doesn't feel right about the sex part. I'm not having problems with making them feel comfortable, desirable and getting them to tell me about everything in their life, I just can't seem to make them feel "ok" with sex for money. I did the financial and relationship comparison differences between SB and escorts, SB and girlfriends / SO's. Any pointers from those who've been down this road?

[QUOTE=ShaggyD;2859797]Been reading your board, some of your SM have given me some great advice, but I'm looking for a few opinions regarding non-SA POT's. I ran a ad on CL under a legit section and got a few responses from true coeds looking for employment. I've slowly disclosed what the actual job is, being a SB. I've had six responses and three m&g's, and another tomorrow afternoon, I've managed to make them curious enough and comfortable enough to hear my pitch. I had an agreement with one out of the three m&gs, but she got a case of conscience at the last minute and bailed. I need advice or tips on closing the deal, had another m&g last week and everything went great, she was super comfortable with me, we had a four hour dinner and closed the restaurant, but she doesn't feel right about the sex part. I'm not having problems with making them feel comfortable, desirable and getting them to tell me about everything in their life, I just can't seem to make them feel "ok" with sex for money. I did the financial and relationship comparison differences between SB and escorts, SB and girlfriends / SO's. Any pointers from those who've been down this road?[/QUOTE]The problem with that approach is you are playing into the "What's Your Price" model of older-younger dating. WYP girls expect money (100-200) for platonic dinner dates. Doing that and it seems one is setting themself up to be rinsed by a smart girl. Sounds like all of them got a nice free dinner out of you, something they wouldn't get from their peers.

The nice thing about the SB sites is that the girls have already self identified as being available for the SB model.

Maybe others will provide techniques one can use? But at some point one has to decide if it is the bait or one is fishing in the wrong pond? Fwiw.

[QUOTE=ShaggyD;2859797]Been reading your board, some of your SM have given me some great advice, but I'm looking for a few opinions regarding non-SA POT's. I ran a ad on CL under a legit section and got a few responses from true coeds looking for employment. I've slowly disclosed what the actual job is, being a SB. I've had six responses and three m&g's, and another tomorrow afternoon, I've managed to make them curious enough and comfortable enough to hear my pitch. I had an agreement with one out of the three m&gs, but she got a case of conscience at the last minute and bailed. I need advice or tips on closing the deal, had another m&g last week and everything went great, she was super comfortable with me, we had a four hour dinner and closed the restaurant, but she doesn't feel right about the sex part. I'm not having problems with making them feel comfortable, desirable and getting them to tell me about everything in their life, I just can't seem to make them feel "ok" with sex for money. I did the financial and relationship comparison differences between SB and escorts, SB and girlfriends / SO's. Any pointers from those who've been down this road?[/QUOTE]I think looking for SBs via employment ads is not an altogether bad strategy, but the key is going to be in the execution. You need to put something in the ad that cleverly hints at your intentions in order to draw the work-needy-but-naughty-minded. Otherwise if it reads like a standard job ad, you put yourself in a position where you have to bait and switch. The girls who have responded to a legitimate sounding CL ad are ones who are looking for legitimate employment, and the ones who want supplemental income but don't want to work particularly hard for it are going to avoid that kind of ad, so you're dealing with a double-whammy situation, it's doomed from two angles already.

As Ceph already said, approaching girls who have already settled on the idea of being an SB is different (and likely to produce more immediate results) than cold calling using CL offers for legit employment. I assume you have your reasons for avoiding the SD sites -- and they are probably well thought out reasons. Anonymity on any of these sites just became extinct recently via things I can't even explain here, but let's just say that every member of any other SD specific site is at future potential risk of something like the Ashley Madison scandal, even if that website promises you you're safe. Nothing is ever safe on the Net, and what's safe today probably won't be safe tomorrow. Basically what I can say at this point is don't sign up for stamp-collector sites if you don't want the fact that you're a stamp collector to show up 4-5 years from now when someone Googles your name. Our privacy is being increasingly encroached upon. From that angle, posting only as an employer, and cleverly masking certain hints (without saying anything that could come back to haunt you later) is a workable strategy, it's just that it might take more work, and successes might come in lower volumes (which is fine because you aren't competing with lots of other SDs in that ball field).

A girl that answers an ad for legitimate employment, only to hear of expectation for sex with her future boss, is likely to feel "baited and switched". Meaning, there will be an extra degree of anger and disappointment when she realizes the job is not what she thought it was. This only makes the M&G a waste of time and money for you both. So how to materialize that into something productive depends mostly on your game and your budget (note these two factors are often at odds with each other. Less budget requires more game and vice versa. Someone that has both can move the earth but all of us have practical limits on one or the other).

So what I would suggest is saying something in the ad that hints at an unusual level of closeness, like "requires a high level of attractiveness, female charm and service oriented attitude. This position requires frequent travel with the two of us, so if your personal life is such that you would be unavailable or have interloping variables that make this arrangement difficult, do not apply".

Now, don't cut and paste that directly because they will Google it and link back to this forum, creeping them out. I'm always shocked that people bought into that "five step plan" that was posted here a while back and actually sent that out verbatim to women, thinking they won't be wise.

Use your own creativity to get the message across in a way that coincides with your own personality. At the end of it all, if you show up to the M&G and the things you say at the table don't "feel" like they are coming from the same person that wrote the ad or the emails, she will know it right away and it will blow the fuck chamber dance.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2859949]I think looking for SBs via employment ads is not an altogether bad strategy, but the key is going to be in the execution. You need to put something in the ad that cleverly hints at your intentions in order to draw the work-needy-but-naughty-minded. Otherwise if it reads like a standard job ad, you put yourself in a position where you have to bait and switch. The girls who have responded to a legitimate sounding CL ad are ones who are looking for legitimate employment, and the ones who want supplemental income but don't want to work particularly hard for it are going to avoid that kind of ad, so you're dealing with a double-whammy situation, it's doomed from two angles already.

As Ceph already said, approaching girls who have already settled on the idea of being an SB is different (and likely to produce more immediate results) than cold calling using CL offers for legit employment. I assume you have your reasons for avoiding the SD sites -- and they are probably well thought out reasons. Anonymity on any of these sites just became extinct recently via things I can't even explain here, but let's just say that every member of any other SD specific site is at future potential risk of something like the Ashley Madison scandal, even if that website promises you you're safe. Nothing is ever safe on the Net, and what's safe today probably won't be safe tomorrow. Basically what I can say at this point is don't sign up for stamp-collector sites if you don't want the fact that you're a stamp collector to show up 4-5 years from now when someone Googles your name. Our privacy is being increasingly encroached upon. From that angle, posting only as an employer, and cleverly masking certain hints (without saying anything that could come back to haunt you later) is a workable strategy, it's just that it might take more work, and successes might come in lower volumes (which is fine because you aren't competing with lots of other SDs in that ball field).

A girl that answers an ad for legitimate employment, only to hear of expectation for sex with her future boss, is likely to feel "baited and switched". Meaning, there will be an extra degree of anger and disappointment when she realizes the job is not what she thought it was. This only makes the M&G a waste of time and money for you both. So how to materialize that into something productive depends mostly on your game and your budget (note these two factors are often at odds with each other. Less budget requires more game and vice versa. Someone that has both can move the earth but all of us have practical limits on one or the other).

So what I would suggest is saying something in the ad that hints at an unusual level of closeness, like "requires a high level of attractiveness, female charm and service oriented attitude. This position requires frequent travel with the two of us, so if your personal life is such that you would be unavailable or have interloping variables that make this arrangement difficult, do not apply".

Now, don't cut and paste that directly because they will Google it and link back to this forum, creeping them out. I'm always shocked that people bought into that "five step plan" that was posted here a while back and actually sent that out verbatim to women, thinking they won't be wise.

Use your own creativity to get the message across in a way that coincides with your own personality. At the end of it all, if you show up to the M&G and the things you say at the table don't "feel" like they are coming from the same person that wrote the ad or the emails, she will know it right away and it will blow the fuck chamber dance.[/QUOTE]Jeez. Once again your answer nailed it. My field is human resources / recruiting / interviewing and that would def be the human nature response of the "candidates".

[QUOTE=ShaggyD;2859797]Been reading your board, some of your SM have given me some great advice, but I'm looking for a few opinions regarding non-SA POT's. I ran a ad on CL under a legit section and got a few responses from true coeds looking for employment. I've slowly disclosed what the actual job is, being a SB. I've had six responses and three m&g's, and another tomorrow afternoon, I've managed to make them curious enough and comfortable enough to hear my pitch. I had an agreement with one out of the three m&gs, but she got a case of conscience at the last minute and bailed. I need advice or tips on closing the deal, had another m&g last week and everything went great, she was super comfortable with me, we had a four hour dinner and closed the restaurant, but she doesn't feel right about the sex part. I'm not having problems with making them feel comfortable, desirable and getting them to tell me about everything in their life, I just can't seem to make them feel "ok" with sex for money. I did the financial and relationship comparison differences between SB and escorts, SB and girlfriends / SO's. Any pointers from those who've been down this road?[/QUOTE]The wrong girl responding for a job that takes offense might put you on uncle LEO radar. I would love to hear that conversation LOL.

I'd stick with the sites that cater to what your looking for.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2859949]I think looking for SBs via employment ads is not an altogether bad strategy, but the key is going to be in the execution. You need to put something in the ad that cleverly hints at your intentions in order to draw the work-needy-but-naughty-minded. Otherwise if it reads like a standard job ad, you put yourself in a position where you have to bait and switch. The girls who have responded to a legitimate sounding CL ad are ones who are looking for legitimate employment, and the ones who want supplemental income but don't want to work particularly hard for it are going to avoid that kind of ad, so you're dealing with a double-whammy situation, it's doomed from two angles already.

As Ceph already said, approaching girls who have already settled on the idea of being an SB is different (and likely to produce more immediate results) than cold calling using CL offers for legit employment. I assume you have your reasons for avoiding the SD sites -- and they are probably well thought out reasons. Anonymity on any of these sites just became extinct recently via things I can't even explain here, but let's just say that every member of any other SD specific site is at future potential risk of something like the Ashley Madison scandal, even if that website promises you you're safe. Nothing is ever safe on the Net, and what's safe today probably won't be safe tomorrow. Basically what I can say at this point is don't sign up for stamp-collector sites if you don't want the fact that you're a stamp collector to show up 4-5 years from now when someone Googles your name. Our privacy is being increasingly encroached upon. From that angle, posting only as an employer, and cleverly masking certain hints (without saying anything that could come back to haunt you later) is a workable strategy, it's just that it might take more work, and successes might come in lower volumes (which is fine because you aren't competing with lots of other SDs in that ball field).

A girl that answers an ad for legitimate employment, only to hear of expectation for sex with her future boss, is likely to feel "baited and switched". Meaning, there will be an extra degree of anger and disappointment when she realizes the job is not what she thought it was. This only makes the M&G a waste of time and money for you both. So how to materialize that into something productive depends mostly on your game and your budget (note these two factors are often at odds with each other. Less budget requires more game and vice versa. Someone that has both can move the earth but all of us have practical limits on one or the other).

So what I would suggest is saying something in the ad that hints at an unusual level of closeness, like "requires a high level of attractiveness, female charm and service oriented attitude. This position requires frequent travel with the two of us, so if your personal life is such that you would be unavailable or have interloping variables that make this arrangement difficult, do not apply".

Now, don't cut and paste that directly because they will Google it and link back to this forum, creeping them out. I'm always shocked that people bought into that "five step plan" that was posted here a while back and actually sent that out verbatim to women, thinking they won't be wise.

Use your own creativity to get the message across in a way that coincides with your own personality. At the end of it all, if you show up to the M&G and the things you say at the table don't "feel" like they are coming from the same person that wrote the ad or the emails, she will know it right away and it will blow the fuck chamber dance.[/QUOTE]I think there is a possibility to find yourself arrested using this model. I read an article a while back (that I can't find now) about a UC cop that went after someone doing what you're doing. He was arrested. Be careful.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2859949]I think looking for SBs via employment ads is not an altogether bad strategy, but the key is going to be in the execution. You need to put something in the ad that cleverly hints at your intentions in order to draw the work-needy-but-naughty-minded. Otherwise if it reads like a standard job ad, you put yourself in a position where you have to bait and switch. The girls who have responded to a legitimate sounding CL ad are ones who are looking for legitimate employment, and the ones who want supplemental income but don't want to work particularly hard for it are going to avoid that kind of ad, so you're dealing with a double-whammy situation, it's doomed from two angles already.

As Ceph already said, approaching girls who have already settled on the idea of being an SB is different (and likely to produce more immediate results) than cold calling using CL offers for legit employment. I assume you have your reasons for avoiding the SD sites -- and they are probably well thought out reasons. Anonymity on any of these sites just became extinct recently via things I can't even explain here, but let's just say that every member of any other SD specific site is at future potential risk of something like the Ashley Madison scandal, even if that website promises you you're safe. Nothing is ever safe on the Net, and what's safe today probably won't be safe tomorrow. Basically what I can say at this point is don't sign up for stamp-collector sites if you don't want the fact that you're a stamp collector to show up 4-5 years from now when someone Googles your name. Our privacy is being increasingly encroached upon. From that angle, posting only as an employer, and cleverly masking certain hints (without saying anything that could come back to haunt you later) is a workable strategy, it's just that it might take more work, and successes might come in lower volumes (which is fine because you aren't competing with lots of other SDs in that ball field).

A girl that answers an ad for legitimate employment, only to hear of expectation for sex with her future boss, is likely to feel "baited and switched". Meaning, there will be an extra degree of anger and disappointment when she realizes the job is not what she thought it was. This only makes the M&G a waste of time and money for you both. So how to materialize that into something productive depends mostly on your game and your budget (note these two factors are often at odds with each other. Less budget requires more game and vice versa. Someone that has both can move the earth but all of us have practical limits on one or the other).

So what I would suggest is saying something in the ad that hints at an unusual level of closeness, like "requires a high level of attractiveness, female charm and service oriented attitude. This position requires frequent travel with the two of us, so if your personal life is such that you would be unavailable or have interloping variables that make this arrangement difficult, do not apply".

Now, don't cut and paste that directly because they will Google it and link back to this forum, creeping them out. I'm always shocked that people bought into that "five step plan" that was posted here a while back and actually sent that out verbatim to women, thinking they won't be wise.

Use your own creativity to get the message across in a way that coincides with your own personality. At the end of it all, if you show up to the M&G and the things you say at the table don't "feel" like they are coming from the same person that wrote the ad or the emails, she will know it right away and it will blow the fuck chamber dance.[/QUOTE]I appreciate you'll taking the time for advising and giving your inputs on strategy. JL, I'm not as eloquent with the phrasing of the ad, you have a gift, but I did use words that hint at this not being a typical job, include was, in not the same words, a requirement to be my companion for varied social activities, travel and alone time, required physical characteristic, intelligence level, age range and preference on college girls. I believe that is what peaks the curiosity and has enabled the M&Gs. They are fully aware on the job requirements long before we get to that point. I think the pond I'm fishing in is the girls who have thought or are curious about being a SB, but don't want to do it publicly on a site. The young lady who backed out of the arrangement still texts me all the time, I just think she was not fully comfortable and is building that comfort now. I'm going to make another run at her soon. After reading the feedback, I do see how this is a more difficult and maybe cumbersome approach, but these girls are top of the line and new to the game, my problem is I don't have enough game to close, but I'm learning quickly. I am on SA, but most of the girls are pro's, utr, or gps in my area. I've had a few fresh SBs, but the time and effort weeding them out is as difficult as my other approach. Getting laid by a low volume utr is not a problem, I'm looking for something with less mileage.

Thanks brothers, really appreciate all the feedback, valuable stuff in this game.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2859816]The problem with that approach is you are playing into the "What's Your Price" model of older-younger dating. WYP girls expect money (100-200) for platonic dinner dates. Doing that and it seems one is setting themself up to be rinsed by a smart girl. Sounds like all of them got a nice free dinner out of you, something they wouldn't get from their peers.

The nice thing about the SB sites is that the girls have already self identified as being available for the SB model.

Maybe others will provide techniques one can use? But at some point one has to decide if it is the bait or one is fishing in the wrong pond? Fwiw.[/QUOTE]I agree, using a SB site does cut the red tape by a lot. However, I have met a few SB off of a SB site and they were very sweet and you can tell they haven't done this.

Before. Then at the last minute they get cold feet. I was lucky enough to take a cute young college girl to the Fuck Chamber a few times and not pay for it.

However, she eventually got cold feet. So bottom line is going to a SB site does cut the red tape but there are some SB on those sites that may get cold feet.

However, I am very interested in your ad approach. I may have to test that one. I did do something similar a few months back. I put an ad on CL looking for a "dating coach".

I actually got two responses but when they sent me their pic I had to pass. LOL What other ideas have people tried. This could be an interesting topic.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2859949]I think looking for SBs via employment ads is not an altogether bad strategy, but the key is going to be in the execution. You need to put something in the ad that cleverly hints at your intentions in order to draw the work-needy-but-naughty-minded. Otherwise if it reads like a standard job ad, you put yourself in a position where you have to bait and switch. The girls who have responded to a legitimate sounding CL ad are ones who are looking for legitimate employment, and the ones who want supplemental income but don't want to work particularly hard for it are going to avoid that kind of ad, so you're dealing with a double-whammy situation, it's doomed from two angles already.

As Ceph already said, approaching girls who have already settled on the idea of being an SB is different (and likely to produce more immediate results) than cold calling using CL offers for legit employment. I assume you have your reasons for avoiding the SD sites -- and they are probably well thought out reasons. Anonymity on any of these sites just became extinct recently via things I can't even explain here, but let's just say that every member of any other SD specific site is at future potential risk of something like the Ashley Madison scandal, even if that website promises you you're safe. Nothing is ever safe on the Net, and what's safe today probably won't be safe tomorrow. Basically what I can say at this point is don't sign up for stamp-collector sites if you don't want the fact that you're a stamp collector to show up 4-5 years from now when someone Googles your name. Our privacy is being increasingly encroached upon. From that angle, posting only as an employer, and cleverly masking certain hints (without saying anything that could come back to haunt you later) is a workable strategy, it's just that it might take more work, and successes might come in lower volumes (which is fine because you aren't competing with lots of other SDs in that ball field).

A girl that answers an ad for legitimate employment, only to hear of expectation for sex with her future boss, is likely to feel "baited and switched". Meaning, there will be an extra degree of anger and disappointment when she realizes the job is not what she thought it was. This only makes the M&G a waste of time and money for you both. So how to materialize that into something productive depends mostly on your game and your budget (note these two factors are often at odds with each other. Less budget requires more game and vice versa. Someone that has both can move the earth but all of us have practical limits on one or the other).

So what I would suggest is saying something in the ad that hints at an unusual level of closeness, like "requires a high level of attractiveness, female charm and service oriented attitude. This position requires frequent travel with the two of us, so if your personal life is such that you would be unavailable or have interloping variables that make this arrangement difficult, do not apply".

Now, don't cut and paste that directly because they will Google it and link back to this forum, creeping them out. I'm always shocked that people bought into that "five step plan" that was posted here a while back and actually sent that out verbatim to women, thinking they won't be wise.

Use your own creativity to get the message across in a way that coincides with your own personality. At the end of it all, if you show up to the M&G and the things you say at the table don't "feel" like they are coming from the same person that wrote the ad or the emails, she will know it right away and it will blow the fuck chamber dance.[/QUOTE]I just wanted to say that this is a great idea! I completely agree about being a little more forward in the ad. Damn I wish I was still in the game so I can try this shit out LOL.

[QUOTE=ShaggyD;2860176] After reading the feedback, I do see how this is a more difficult and maybe cumbersome approach, but these girls are top of the line and new to the game, my problem is I don't have enough game to close, but I'm learning quickly. I am on SA, but most of the girls are pro's, utr, or gps in my area. [/QUOTE]I'm a big fan of tweaking tactics for specific geographic regions, I have found that I have to adjust my game for different cities. Aside from the traveling UTR type (who will largely behave however she does because she lives out of hotel rooms and is disconnected from her environment), women are influenced by where they reside, the male / female ratio in that city, etc. And customizing your game for a region pays off big. If you aren't comfortable divulging the area publically, I'll leave open the option of PMing me the area, and once I understand the playing field a little better I may be able to help somewhat. My first thought is that if you don't have enough college girls in your area to populate the sites with college babies, you'll have trouble filling your employment positions with similarly-minded college babies, but it's hard to know without further examining the situation in that city a bit.

Geography aside, the real challenge here is that you're going after a very specific type of girl, using a very specific method of doing it (in a market that may already have inherent challenges). This means that no matter the amount of game you develop, your successes may be few and far between. Cast a wide net for fishing at large and you'll catch lots of fish. Use a specific type of unique bait to target a very specific species of fish, and you'll need lots of patience. Sure, you can strike gold and you probably will in time, but developing a method for consistent results is going to be somewhere between difficult and impossible.

I once had a gem of a Filipina girl who never expected more of me financially than buying her a few drinks. In fact, if I visited her at her work, she would bring me free food. She loved sex and would rock my balls raw, but she had a serious aversion to semen and sucking cock, therefore (and I was honest about this) she was never going to be anything to me but a friend and occasional booty call, as she did not have that 100% daddy-pleasing attitude I require. Our quid pro quo became simply sex for sex, we both liked it equally even though I was missing what I really want. One day she tells me she started a house cleaning business for extra income, and said if I let her clean my place, she will fuck me silly whenever I want and not even get in the way of me and "my girlfriends" as she put it. I had a better idea, I decided to advertise for a housekeeper / cook etc. , with wording specifically designed to narrow down my preferred demographic. I got tons of bites, did a few interviews but ultimately came to the conclusion that the general freelance housekeeper population is not really hot enough for the type of role I had in mind (I also got tired of listening voice mails from 60 yr old AA women who didn't or couldn't read between the lines of the ad wording), so I dropped the idea. Too small a net, too specific a target, too much work to find what I wanted to fulfill the fantasy. I see what you're trying to do as a similarly challenging task as my search for a hot fuck-maid was.

Also I agree with others, advertising a legit job then introducing the sexual requirement could attract unwanted legal attention, so it's something to approach carefully.

Shaggy,

I've used a strategy akin to the one you've proposed with great success! My current rotation was filled/being filled this way, which is why I have't been active on the sugar sites. While there are downsides (e. G. Time commitment, unclear expectations, a confused pot), there are upsides (e. G. Lower likelihood of a utr, less likelihood of an SO asking why you're signed up on a sugar site, paper trail and credit card payment for a sugar site membership, etc.).

That being said, a CL ad isn't conducive to the method I've used (more on this later), but to the extent its helpful, here is the technique that I implemented, details on how I stumbled upon it, and how I came to be in my current situation.

After playing in the Bowl for a number of years now, almost all the SBs that I've gone through share one common quality. They are either students or have low paying service jobs. Most of the POTS / SBs I've encountered use SA as a means to supplement their existing income. Many of them are also signed up on various other service-job web-sites (e. G. TaskRabbit, etc.) which require them to post profiles with pictures. In my real life, I need the services that are provided by many of these different service-job related sites and while perusing the profiles of these young ladies looking for real life employment, I've come across more than quite a few profiles of young ladies who are also signed up on SA. Sure the names were different, but based on the pictures and locations, it was relatively simple to put two and two together.

I let my SA account expire, and created a new account on the service related job site I used (I can't publicly post the name of the service related job site I was using, since it would reveal more information than I'm comfortable with sharing publicly, but you're welcome to PM me for details). I then created a new profile, and filled it out using only information I used on my SA profile and attached it to an address that could only be generically associated with me (again, you're welcome to PM me for details). I paid for the subscription using a Vanilla Visa and linked all the phone information to my burner cell. Using the new account, that protected my real information, and which only used the same amount of information I've previously used on SA (with the exception of linking that profile to an address that can only be generically associated with me) I reached out to young ladies that I already knew were on SA. I then set up interviews accordingly. The interviews were essentially the same as M&G's and always set up at a coffee shop. The meetings allowed me to get a sense of the POTs, to see if they were young, eager and sweet. I was also able to verify whether pics were accurate in person. Most importantly, it let me develop rapport with the young ladies. I received responses from all the POTs I reached out to. During the meetings, after establishing rapport, I tested to see how comfortable they were with me. After the first 20 minutes, if the interaction was going well, I complimented them on something innocent, like their dress, their smile, their hair, and / or their eyes. All were asked to bring a copy of their resume to the interview, and if they reacted favorably to my compliments on their physical appearance, I asked them to pull out their resume so we could go over it together. At that point, I pulled my chair next to them to see how comfortable they were with me getting close to them physically. Five of the young ladies reacted very favorably to this, and this was the point where I initiated some very innocent physical contact. I'd ask them to point something out on their resume, and then complimented them on a ring or a bracelet they were wearing and would ask if I could take a closer look at it, while gently taking their hand in mine to get a better look. This resulted in more innocent physical contact. I set up second round interviews, and told them that because of my busy schedule, it would be easier to do the interview over dinner. In between the first and second round interviews, there were more occasional texts to build even more rapport. Two young ladies dropped out of the process at this point (maybe because my texts were too suggestive, but I prefer it this way to help avoid wasting my own time). The second round interviews were over dinner. And I also welcomed the three remaining ladies to each order as many drinks as they wanted. After a few drinks, and after each of the POTS became much more comfortable, the conversation became much more personal in nature at this point. As the conversation got more personal, I hinted at the lack of romance in my current relationship and how if I was younger, they would be the subject of my romantic interests. I also let them know that if things didn't work out with the job opportunity I had to offer, it wasn't because I didn't like them, but rather because my SO probably wouldn't be so comfortable with me working so closely with such an attractive young lady, but that regardless of the outcome, I wanted to maintain contact with them to help them out in whatever way I could.

After the second interview, I confirmed with all five that after my SO saw their picture and profile, she wasn't comfortable with how attractive they were. Three of the five dropped out at that point and have not actively responded to my last few texts (at least right now). Of the remaining two, one of the young ladies came out to me that she was on SA and asked me if a sugar relationship was something that I had ever considered. She is now actively in my rotation. Extremely low sugar allowance, where I help her out with things and provide her with nice gifts from time to time. She seems very happy to have found a way to establish a sugar relationship with someone who she thinks is a normal guy and someone she thinks she converted to a SD. Because she thinks she initiated the sugar relationship with a normal guy - I think she is happy to accept much less than what I would've normally offered to convert her to a SB. I also think that she got ultra competitive at the thought that my SO would've vetoed her for the real job I was offering, and this is her way of getting back at my SO (I purposely told them that my SO vetoed them because this sort of competition is something I expected).

I've met the second other young lady a few times since the second interview to provide mentorship and career advice. We've also gone out a few times for coffee, meals and drinks. Her comfort with me is growing and she routinely locks arms with me and gives me a hug and kiss before and after our time together. Within the next few weeks, I plan on telling her something along the lines of "this is really awkward, but I'm on SA and I think I found your profile there as well. I put my SA account in an hidden status because I hadn't had much luck recently with any of the ladies I met the past few month, but have really enjoyed our time together and wanted to see if you might be interested; since I've had a few good sugar relationships in the past, but they were mainly with young ladies like yourself ".

As previously mentioned, there are lots of downsides. It takes a lot of work to cross reference profiles. I also would never try the approach with a lady who isn't already on a sugar site. If you don't live in a major city, the cross over between a regular service job website and a sugar site are probably very low. Despite the downsides, I've found the payoff and upside to be what I'm looking for. Generally UTRs or pros are not going to also be looking for a real jobs. Making contact via another web-site, outside of the world of sugar sites allows me to message these POTs, and their subscription fees are often much lower than the fees of the sugar sites. At the end of the day, that's why we're paying SA and the other sugar sites. To give us a means to make contact with POTs, right? It also means that I don't have to worry about a POTs background information. Since most of these job service sites do a background verification anyway. Additionally, I'm able to protect all my real information and be about as anonymous as I was on SA since the service job site I use protects the information of the individuals who are offering jobs.

A few caveats that might make my situation different than yours. First, you need to find a service related job that has profile picture of the potential employee so you can cross reference profiles and reach out to them - which CL doesn't offer. After playing in the bowl for a few years, I'm very comfortable in my game, which is why interacting with these young ladies at the first and second interviews was very easy for me. Also, having spent so much time on SA previously, I'm familiar with many of the profiles, and only need to check newly created profiles for cross referencing pictures now. As it pertains to POTs being attracted to me, I'm younger than 40, in decent shape, and have been told that I'm relatively easy on the eyes.

Based on your posts, it seems like you've got a plan and intend to execute it. Frankly I'm of the opinion that every decision comes with trade-offs and at the end of the day, each individual has to perform his / her own risk / reward analysis. To those that would tell you that your plan is flawed because of too many downsides. I would respond by telling them that they mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger.

Good luck and happy hunting. Hopefully you or others will find the information above useful. If you implement the technique I've used, or a version of it, I'd be interested to hear about your successes or failures, since I suspect that information would be useful to me, to help refine my own techniques.

[QUOTE=ShaggyD;2860176]I appreciate you'll taking the time for advising and giving your inputs on strategy. JL, I'm not as eloquent with the phrasing of the ad, you have a gift, but I did use words that hint at this not being a typical job, include was, in not the same words, a requirement to be my companion for varied social activities, travel and alone time, required physical characteristic, intelligence level, age range and preference on college girls. I believe that is what peaks the curiosity and has enabled the M&Gs. They are fully aware on the job requirements long before we get to that point. I think the pond I'm fishing in is the girls who have thought or are curious about being a SB, but don't want to do it publicly on a site. The young lady who backed out of the arrangement still texts me all the time, I just think she was not fully comfortable and is building that comfort now. I'm going to make another run at her soon. After reading the feedback, I do see how this is a more difficult and maybe cumbersome approach, but these girls are top of the line and new to the game, my problem is I don't have enough game to close, but I'm learning quickly. I am on SA, but most of the girls are pro's, utr, or gps in my area. I've had a few fresh SBs, but the time and effort weeding them out is as difficult as my other approach. Getting laid by a low volume utr is not a problem, I'm looking for something with less mileage.

Thanks brothers, really appreciate all the feedback, valuable stuff in this game.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Ltnric;2860292]I agree, using a SB site does cut the red tape by a lot. However, I have met a few SB off of a SB site and they were very sweet and you can tell they haven't done this.

Before. Then at the last minute they get cold feet. I was lucky enough to take a cute young college girl to the Fuck Chamber a few times and not pay for it.

However, she eventually got cold feet. So bottom line is going to a SB site does cut the red tape but there are some SB on those sites that may get cold feet.

However, I am very interested in your ad approach. I may have to test that one. I did do something similar a few months back. I put an ad on CL looking for a "dating coach".

I actually got two responses but when they sent me their pic I had to pass. LOL What other ideas have people tried. This could be an interesting topic.[/QUOTE]

Stormy. Apologies for not responding sooner to your post about my "groundhog day" method. Things have been a bit crazy, as I've been busy implementing other ideas.

As an aside, if you find a POT who is on SA that wouldn't M&G with you, but who has a profile up on a different non-sugar service job website you might find that she is much more willing to meet with you for an interview for a real job. This is important because if you search my prior posts, look for one titled "MoneyBowl", where I broke down my FC success to failure ratio based on messages sent out, replies received, and then M&G's that were established. In a nutshell, I've found, based on the numbers and the stats, that setting up the M&G/face-to-face meeting is the toughest part of getting to the FC. Once you meet in person, getting to the FC is just a matter of your game. Especially when a young lady already has it in her head that she's willing to consider the sugar lifestyle.

I know that some will criticize the method for a variety of reasons, but at the end of the day, I only offer real-job interviews to ladies who I already know are on sugar sites. Also, if they truly impress me, I probably would consider offering them a position for the real life job, although that would mean that I couldn't play with them in the bowl (because they would know my real information at that point). At the end of the day, I offer them a choice, and if they're willing to consider, or want, a sugar relationship rather than the real job, who am I to say no?

Finally, one other benefit of using a real-service job website to reach out to ladies who are also on SA, is that you generally don't need to post a profile picture with the real job websites to generate interest for a face to face meeting. Then when you do meet face to face, if the young lady finds you attractive, all the more power to you.


[QUOTE=StormyTuesday;2841307]I jumped into the bowl last summer and after reading many helpful posts on this forum basically started off with the 5 step approach (courtesy of HWG). Feel like I have had moderate success with 14 in the FC (most w / o M & Gs), of which 8 have been multiple visits. I would be interested to hear opinions from the forum brothers regarding the idea of setting up a 2nd page. Obviously there is an additional cost (SA and a 2nd burner phone).

Here are 3 reasons that led me to adding a 2nd page two months ago. First I was second guessing my 5 step approach since a high % were either ignoring my initial message or flaking out after a few good messages. Wanted to give it the bill murray / groundhog day "redo"and revisit some of my favorite picks. The 2nd reason was to create a completely different persona for my second page. My first page was more of a rebel type whereas my second page allowed my to go with a button down shirt kind of look. Now I have some options on which page to use for certain POTs. Also if they don't respond to the first one or I strike out on the convos I have a planB available.

The third reason is one that popped into my head a couple of weeks after setting this up and is one that may have some brothers either shooting arrows at me (ethics) or applauding me. At the time I was in my fourth week with a 18 yr old new to SA. We were seeing each other weekly for either two short nites (5 pm - 11 pm) or one overnight in local hotels. I was budgeting about 1200 a month for her, plus hotels and diner type meals but I was her only source of income (no car, no fixed place to stay accept with grandparents or friends) and I knew it was not enough. I started to encourage her to consider getting a second SD (or a job LOL), partly bc I knew she was still active on SA, but she adamantly made it clear she wanted to be exclusive with me. When I commented about her being on her SA site almost every day she replied she had given account access to a GF. Well, you know where I am going with this. I reached out to her thru my 2nd page and frankly it was one of the easiest hotel dates I have ever set up. Not only did she reschedule one of our dates to meet SD # 2 she even had the balls to message him (me) one morning after an overnight during breakfast (I matched up the SA time line). I thought long and hard about showing up for the SD # 2 date but elected to cancel the hotel date the day before. Without getting into extra details the end of this story has her admitting she was trying to add a SD # 2 and we agreed to take a break for a while. She has since texted me several times about restarting which I probably will seriously consider.

A 2nd page obviously requires extra expense and good organization. My SD # 1 phone is a burner w / o data but my SD # 2 phone is a smart phone with both accounts set up on it, so when it "ding dings" I can see which page got the hit. I give out separate cell #s and email addresses according to whichever page the POT is connecting to me on. I keep excel sheets for both pages to track the history of both who I meet and who I have cell # on, FB pages etc. Is it worth it in the long run? I don't know, but it does add an extra twist to the game. Thoughts? Comments?[/QUOTE]

In order to avoid from having to answer too many PMs here are ten of various occupations that many if not most of the POTs I've encountered list or engage in while also trying to land a SD:

1. Personal Trainer, 2. Nurse, 3. Nanny, 4. Baby Sitter, 5. Tutor, 6. Pet Sitter, 8. Housekeeper / cleaner, 9. Model, 10. Administrative assistant.

I've only perused a few of the websites below, and so have no idea how the communications systems work, but assume the websites simply act as a conduit to put you in touch with the person looking for employment.

1. [URL]https://www.acefitness.org/acefit/trainer_results.aspx?searchtype=byzip&country=US&zip=20006&radius=100&sortBy=Distance&sortOrder=A&province=[/URL].

When you want to browse profiles for personal training needs.

2. [URL]https://petsitter.com/pet-sitters/richmond[/URL], virginia.

When you want to browse profiles for pet sitting needs.

3. [URL]http://www.varsitytutors.com/tutors-washington_dc-dc?mobile=false&page=3&proto=http%3a%2f%2f[/URL].

When you want to browse profiles of tutors.

4. [URL]https://www.care.com/nannies/arlington-va[/URL].

When you want to browse profiles of nannies.

5. [URL]https://www.taskrabbit.com/tasks/a/recommendations?uuid=78cdb974-0bd9-4900-a39d-b0f754b76a40[/URL].

When you want to browse profiles of cleaners.

6. http://www.modelmayhem.com/browse/model/us/maryland/baltimore?sr_token=f2bd2dc4768de1aadf66b36c31e29e7c&fm_action=search&show_advanced=0&artist_type%5B%5D=1&member_name=&f_gender=Female&display=details&sort_by=1&country=US&state=4102&city=2745539&zipcode=&radius=0.25&submit=

When you want to browse profiles of "models." And btw, anyone with a DSLR camera can call themselves a photographer these days...a decent one will run around $1 K and is well worth the investment.

I have joined SA as I am tiring of my current SB. Many legit issues she is having that are not in her control but lets face it. I aint getting the same attention so time to move on. Anyway. I really have not used the sites for my SB's as mentioned before. But giving it a try. All said and done my SB usually gets about $1500 mth in $ and shopping. I do not con=ungt dining / trips as this is what I am going to do anyway. I will add I look for LT situations too. Usually seening them 6-10 x a math. With a number of overbites. Really semi GF situations. So. What I am finding is that the girls are wanting 3 k+ mth? And not really coming down after I share what I am capable off providing. I am 50 but nice looking and in good physical condition but just wondering what the brotherhood pays for their LT SB. Not the per meet thing as that is not what I am looking for. I am in the midwest area so not LA NY Chi TOWN etc. I do comfortably and maaaaaaybe could swing 3 k but don't want to. Plus they only want to meet 4 x or so a mth. Hell with that LOL. I welcome your input!. Ty have noon concept of what it takes to hand out even $1500 meh for this kind of activity.

[QUOTE=LikeMike1963;2861614]I have joined SA as I am tiring of my current SB. Many legit issues she is having that are not in her control but lets face it. I aint getting the same attention so time to move on. Anyway. I really have not used the sites for my SB's as mentioned before. But giving it a try. All said and done my SB usually gets about $1500 mth in $ and shopping. I do not con=ungt dining / trips as this is what I am going to do anyway. I will add I look for LT situations too. Usually seening them 6-10 x a math. With a number of overbites. Really semi GF situations. So. What I am finding is that the girls are wanting 3 k+ mth? And not really coming down after I share what I am capable off providing. I am 50 but nice looking and in good physical condition but just wondering what the brotherhood pays for their LT SB. Not the per meet thing as that is not what I am looking for. I am in the midwest area so not LA NY Chi TOWN etc. I do comfortably and maaaaaaybe could swing 3 k but don't want to. Plus they only want to meet 4 x or so a mth. Hell with that LOL. I welcome your input!. Ty have noon concept of what it takes to hand out even $1500 meh for this kind of activity.[/QUOTE]Allowances are goi g to be negotiable as to what is e pected. Not everyone has the same needs so allowances are going to run for little or nothing to big money. Now for the bid money you should have pretty close to 24/7 at your beckon call. Women can put on good shows so thinking you have a connection can be misleading. I have talked to numerous girls who had ltr and was there because of the money. Most didn't even like the guy.

Now my test is after reaching an agreement will tell them after 3-4 months that something came up and the sugar is gone. If they bolt then you know its the money, if they hang you have a connection. Now most guys here are just hit it and move on. If that's your taste plenty of utr and pros here at BP prices.

[QUOTE=LikeMike1963;2861614]I have joined SA as I am tiring of my current SB. Many legit issues she is having that are not in her control but lets face it. I aint getting the same attention so time to move on. Anyway. I really have not used the sites for my SB's as mentioned before. But giving it a try. All said and done my SB usually gets about $1500 mth in $ and shopping. I do not con=ungt dining / trips as this is what I am going to do anyway. I will add I look for LT situations too. Usually seening them 6-10 x a math. With a number of overbites. Really semi GF situations. So. What I am finding is that the girls are wanting 3 k+ mth? And not really coming down after I share what I am capable off providing. I am 50 but nice looking and in good physical condition but just wondering what the brotherhood pays for their LT SB. Not the per meet thing as that is not what I am looking for. I am in the midwest area so not LA NY Chi TOWN etc. I do comfortably and maaaaaaybe could swing 3 k but don't want to. Plus they only want to meet 4 x or so a mth. Hell with that LOL. I welcome your input!. Ty have noon concept of what it takes to hand out even $1500 meh for this kind of activity.[/QUOTE]I found out that there are guys out there paying exorbitant rates but the majority are still in the Minimal to Practical range. Keep to your standards. Do the m&G and when the unemployed SBs need money they will sign up. More than once / week might be more of a difficulty for you. My suggestion is to aim for once / week at $200-250/ date and negotiate up for more often. Also, paradoxically, the older "SB" is more demanding. I have had better luck with the college girls. Also, stay away from the 9-10's. They are spoiled from all the attention. I like the nice 7+face /8+ body. They are less in demand and more appreciative.

Looks like the SA upgrade now includes a change to BLOCKs.

If she blocks you, the message you get is just like if she took down her profile where as bewfore it said you were blocked.

Like the change is going to spare anyone feelings.

Thanks for the feedback and alternate strategy using the service related jobs and cross referencing between sites.

My ad must be written well enough and seems to be hitting the target audience. I got home this afternoon and had three more inquiries with pictures that include full body bikini shots. I've had eleven high value coed responses and one MILF. Three coed's I've seen on SA, one of the three is an UTR, the others are fresh coed's and the MILF is divorced. Of course I'm targeting the freshie's, it must be the challenge, but that seems to be what I prefer. I've got two m&g's this week with freshie's, hopefully my game will be on point. Thanks again Richmond board! You have a beautiful thing going here.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2860428]Shaggy,

I've used a strategy akin to the one you've proposed with great success! My current rotation was filled/being filled this way, which is why I have't been active on the sugar sites. While there are downsides (e. G. Time commitment, unclear expectations, a confused pot), there are upsides (e. G. Lower likelihood of a utr, less likelihood of an SO asking why you're signed up on a sugar site, paper trail and credit card payment for a sugar site membership, etc.).

That being said, a CL ad isn't conducive to the method I've used (more on this later), but to the extent its helpful, here is the technique that I implemented, details on how I stumbled upon it, and how I came to be in my current situation.

After playing in the Bowl for a number of years now, almost all the SBs that I've gone through share one common quality. They are either students or have low paying service jobs. Most of the POTS / SBs I've encountered use SA as a means to supplement their existing income. Many of them are also signed up on various other service-job web-sites (e. G. TaskRabbit, etc.) which require them to post profiles with pictures. In my real life, I need the services that are provided by many of these different service-job related sites and while perusing the profiles of these young ladies looking for real life employment, I've come across more than quite a few profiles of young ladies who are also signed up on SA. Sure the names were different, but based on the pictures and locations, it was relatively simple to put two and two together.

I let my SA account expire, and created a new account on the service related job site I used (I can't publicly post the name of the service related job site I was using, since it would reveal more information than I'm comfortable with sharing publicly, but you're welcome to PM me for details). I then created a new profile, and filled it out using only information I used on my SA profile and attached it to an address that could only be generically associated with me (again, you're welcome to PM me for details). I paid for the subscription using a Vanilla Visa and linked all the phone information to my burner cell. Using the new account, that protected my real information, and which only used the same amount of information I've previously used on SA (with the exception of linking that profile to an address that can only be generically associated with me) I reached out to young ladies that I already knew were on SA. I then set up interviews accordingly. The interviews were essentially the same as M&G's and always set up at a coffee shop. The meetings allowed me to get a sense of the POTs, to see if they were young, eager and sweet. I was also able to verify whether pics were accurate in person. Most importantly, it let me develop rapport with the young ladies. I received responses from all the POTs I reached out to. During the meetings, after establishing rapport, I tested to see how comfortable they were with me. After the first 20 minutes, if the interaction was going well, I complimented them on something innocent, like their dress, their smile, their hair, and / or their eyes. All were asked to bring a copy of their resume to the interview, and if they reacted favorably to my compliments on their physical appearance, I asked them to pull out their resume so we could go over it together. At that point, I pulled my chair next to them to see how comfortable they were with me getting close to them physically. Five of the young ladies reacted very favorably to this, and this was the point where I initiated some very innocent physical contact. I'd ask them to point something out on their resume, and then complimented them on a ring or a bracelet they were wearing and would ask if I could take a closer look at it, while gently taking their hand in mine to get a better look. This resulted in more innocent physical contact. I set up second round interviews, and told them that because of my busy schedule, it would be easier to do the interview over dinner. In between the first and second round interviews, there were more occasional texts to build even more rapport. Two young ladies dropped out of the process at this point (maybe because my texts were too suggestive, but I prefer it this way to help avoid wasting my own time). The second round interviews were over dinner. And I also welcomed the three remaining ladies to each order as many drinks as they wanted. After a few drinks, and after each of the POTS became much more comfortable, the conversation became much more personal in nature at this point. As the conversation got more personal, I hinted at the lack of romance in my current relationship and how if I was younger, they would be the subject of my romantic interests. I also let them know that if things didn't work out with the job opportunity I had to offer, it wasn't because I didn't like them, but rather because my SO probably wouldn't be so comfortable with me working so closely with such an attractive young lady, but that regardless of the outcome, I wanted to maintain contact with them to help them out in whatever way I could.

After the second interview, I confirmed with all five that after my SO saw their picture and profile, she wasn't comfortable with how attractive they were. Three of the five dropped out at that point and have not actively responded to my last few texts (at least right now). Of the remaining two, one of the young ladies came out to me that she was on SA and asked me if a sugar relationship was something that I had ever considered. She is now actively in my rotation. Extremely low sugar allowance, where I help her out with things and provide her with nice gifts from time to time. She seems very happy to have found a way to establish a sugar relationship with someone who she thinks is a normal guy and someone she thinks she converted to a SD. Because she thinks she initiated the sugar relationship with a normal guy - I think she is happy to accept much less than what I would've normally offered to convert her to a SB. I also think that she got ultra competitive at the thought that my SO would've vetoed her for the real job I was offering, and this is her way of getting back at my SO (I purposely told them that my SO vetoed them because this sort of competition is something I expected).

I've met the second other young lady a few times since the second interview to provide mentorship and career advice. We've also gone out a few times for coffee, meals and drinks. Her comfort with me is growing and she routinely locks arms with me and gives me a hug and kiss before and after our time together. Within the next few weeks, I plan on telling her something along the lines of "this is really awkward, but I'm on SA and I think I found your profile there as well. I put my SA account in an hidden status because I hadn't had much luck recently with any of the ladies I met the past few month, but have really enjoyed our time together and wanted to see if you might be interested; since I've had a few good sugar relationships in the past, but they were mainly with young ladies like yourself ".

As previously mentioned, there are lots of downsides. It takes a lot of work to cross reference profiles. I also would never try the approach with a lady who isn't already on a sugar site. If you don't live in a major city, the cross over between a regular service job website and a sugar site are probably very low. Despite the downsides, I've found the payoff and upside to be what I'm looking for. Generally UTRs or pros are not going to also be looking for a real jobs. Making contact via another web-site, outside of the world of sugar sites allows me to message these POTs, and their subscription fees are often much lower than the fees of the sugar sites. At the end of the day, that's why we're paying SA and the other sugar sites. To give us a means to make contact with POTs, right? It also means that I don't have to worry about a POTs background information. Since most of these job service sites do a background verification anyway. Additionally, I'm able to protect all my real information and be about as anonymous as I was on SA since the service job site I use protects the information of the individuals who are offering jobs.

A few caveats that might make my situation different than yours. First, you need to find a service related job that has profile picture of the potential employee so you can cross reference profiles and reach out to them - which CL doesn't offer. After playing in the bowl for a few years, I'm very comfortable in my game, which is why interacting with these young ladies at the first and second interviews was very easy for me. Also, having spent so much time on SA previously, I'm familiar with many of the profiles, and only need to check newly created profiles for cross referencing pictures now. As it pertains to POTs being attracted to me, I'm younger than 40, in decent shape, and have been told that I'm relatively easy on the eyes.

Based on your posts, it seems like you've got a plan and intend to execute it. Frankly I'm of the opinion that every decision comes with trade-offs and at the end of the day, each individual has to perform his / her own risk / reward analysis. To those that would tell you that your plan is flawed because of too many downsides. I would respond by telling them that they mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger.

Good luck and happy hunting. Hopefully you or others will find the information above useful. If you implement the technique I've used, or a version of it, I'd be interested to hear about your successes or failures, since I suspect that information would be useful to me, to help refine my own techniques.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=LikeMike1963;2861614]I have joined SA as I am tiring of my current SB. Many legit issues she is having that are not in her control but lets face it. I aint getting the same attention so time to move on. Anyway. I really have not used the sites for my SB's as mentioned before. But giving it a try. All said and done my SB usually gets about $1500 mth in $ and shopping. I do not con=ungt dining / trips as this is what I am going to do anyway. I will add I look for LT situations too. Usually seening them 6-10 x a math. With a number of overbites. Really semi GF situations. So. What I am finding is that the girls are wanting 3 k+ mth? And not really coming down after I share what I am capable off providing. I am 50 but nice looking and in good physical condition but just wondering what the brotherhood pays for their LT SB. Not the per meet thing as that is not what I am looking for. I am in the midwest area so not LA NY Chi TOWN etc. I do comfortably and maaaaaaybe could swing 3 k but don't want to. Plus they only want to meet 4 x or so a mth. Hell with that LOL. I welcome your input!. Ty have noon concept of what it takes to hand out even $1500 meh for this kind of activity.[/QUOTE]I like that you're looking for LT with SB. In my opinion this is the way to go. It's more bang for the buck. Because you're in the Midwest, you may have to deliver $ugar upfront to get them to buy in. On the east coast, I've found girls don't want to shop around much if there's some commonality and a bit of attraction. With LTR the sugar demands tend to fade and it's more about companionship and the GF experience. With all things there's a bit of game and a social dynamic at play. My LTR SB had to realize that I had options and that I could easily replace her if I choose. If you've vested time in your SB and your not getting "attention that you deserve" my advice is to have a talk and be able to walk away and mean it. If she sticks around she'll be more accomodating and will come to her senses. If she's truly not interested she'll walk and there's no harm, no foul.

I started back in The Bowl after some months of neglect from the LTR SB. Once I started devoting more time to seeing other girls and not being as available, my SB came to her senses. She's now doing the things I like. I'm getting the random BJ while watching TV. She's initiating sex when she comes over more often.

The benefit of LTR SB is that you're no longer taking a hit paying an allowance. I cover her basics, similar to a boyfriend with humble means. I'd say I spend between $500-$1000 a month. That's normal dating (dinner, drinks and small gifts) As with girls that are on a SD dating site, they have their issues. The speeding ticket comes up, the plane ticket to visit family happens. Those are emergencies that a normal boyfriend couldn't handle. Expenses like that are unavoidable even with vanilla dating. The LTR doesn't get or even ask for a monthly stipend. She's just happy that finances are available if she needs them and that you're pleasant and not a prick.

The new girls do have some demands, but they are more pay for play at this time. They don't hold a candle in terms of looks and personality to my LTR SB, but I don't mind paying the minimal allowance to keep them around. They are basically hedging my relationship with my LTR. When my LTR is back fully and no longer causing headaches I'll go back to her fully. Right now, it's a break to play the field a bit and to end my neediness and attachment that I've developed.

In hindsight, my neediness is what caused her to stray and spend more time with her "girlfriends" partying and neglecting my needs. She swears she's never cheated and I give her the benefit of the doubt. Mostly because I've never caught her. I see my faults in putting her on a pedestal and becoming the "knight in shining armor". These girls want the alpha stud, which is why they sought out "Daddy" if you don't want your girl to lack in attention I realized you have to become the best version of yourself and not they guy waiting for her to call or text. I started creating a more successful and busier life and everything appears to be working itself out.

[QUOTE=Walruscl;2847887]The bowl is such a mind-blower to those of us from an older generation that it's easy to get caught up in the fantasy-come-true aspect. But amidst the UTR's, the players, the GPS girls, and the way-out-there free spirits, there really are some SB's that are grounded in normalcy. It's easy to forget that behind the fantasy there can be a girl living a pretty routine life, dealing with roommates, family, friends, etc.

These girls can be quite a find, assuming you walk the fine line between enjoying the intimacy yet keeping a healthy distance.[/QUOTE]The Bowl is definitely a mind blower. I fell for a few since starting. The first girl admitted that she tried escorting. After a few months of dealing with her I found she was living with her step-dad or she'd be homeless. After prying a bit more found out her real name and a few criminal charges for underage DWI and some battery-assault charges.

Starting out coming across these type of girls. It was a relief finding a "normal SB" that had a few bills, and needed money for books. This site sort of poisoned our relationship because I was so untrusting of her. When she wasn't with me I assumed she was cheating or seeing some other SD. This was way after I had her delete her SA profile. It's best to not get too involved, but hey shit happens. When your SB starts crying because you're about to leave or threatening to break up it gets to you. I'm still unsure if LTR is possible with an SB. We all have baggage, just not sure how forgiving you should be. If you cut the sugar out and she's still around, that's telling. I did the same with my SB who became SO and she passed the test. I just have to get over being divorced and my attitude since finding this site. I assumed if my LTR SB was talking she was lying and if she's breathing, she's cheating. You have to protect yourself, but to a fault you can become abusive. I realized what I became and took a step back. Ultimately whichever girl you choose, just make sure its FUN and good times.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2862251]In hindsight, my neediness is what caused her to stray and spend more time with her "girlfriends" partying and neglecting my needs. She swears she's never cheated and I give her the benefit of the doubt. Mostly because I've never caught her. I see my faults in putting her on a pedestal and becoming the "knight in shining armor". These girls want the alpha stud, which is why they sought out "Daddy" if you don't want your girl to lack in attention I realized you have to become the best version of yourself and not they guy waiting for her to call or text. I started creating a more successful and busier life and everything appears to be working itself out.[/QUOTE]This. It's a tragic fact of dating that you can never, ever, relinquish psychological control to a woman and come out ahead. If some mad scientist ever finds a way to take the unconditional loyalty of a dog and inject it into a woman, then we have solved the problem of the ever-eroding traditional family unit. Until then, the only way to maintain a woman's loyalty is to make sure she always knows you don't really need it.

My SBs, strippers, FWBs etc. And I become fond of each other on various personal levels. But making sure I always have options and am never needy is an essential ongoing requirement even in my relationship with my "real" GF. Over time she will start to become complacent, maybe even entitled. Then occasionally something happens that brings her down to earth. The most recent event was a hot Russian hostess that flirted with me aggressively at our dinner table right in front of her, saying "if she's not your wife I can give you my number right?" (yes she was kidding but it was awkward and I was just as surprised as my GF was at her behavior, but in a different way. I was glad it happened and she was not. LOL). Or maybe I get a text from a previous ex-GF or FWB (its increasingly rare but still happens sometimes -- my SBs contact me on a different number she doesn't know about), or she looks up one of my ex-GFs on FB.

An event like that triggers her jealousy reflex and pretty much guarantees good behavior on her part for some period of time. Then complacency sets in again, and I'm reminded that being in the driver's seat of a relationship is an always on job, and it's not wise to hand the steering wheel over to anyone unless you're okay with them "forgetting" to give you a ride.

I've asked my girlfriend many times in the past, if I got hit by a truck and became a drooling vegetable tomorrow, would she still take care of me? As guessed, she says "of course". We all know better. To qualify that, I'm not an SD to my current GF. She has a decent job and earns her own keep. Buys my lunch about half the time and pays her own bills. I wouldn't stay with a single woman any other way. If I have to pay for it, why not have 2-3 different ones each week? But, my point is, would she pass the true test of love and "keep me" if I really needed it? For a while maybe, long-term all bets off.

The key there is "needing it". As a male we cannot afford to be needy. At all.

What's up with the pictures of (usually) 18 yr old SBs sticking their tongues out in their profile headliner? Are we suppose to imagine that they are open for oral? Or ready to take our cum down the hatch? IDK about you guys but I find it rather repulsive.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2864365]What's up with the pictures of (usually) 18 yr old SBs sticking their tongues out in their profile headliner? Are we suppose to imagine that they are open for oral? Or ready to take our cum down the hatch? IDK about you guys but I find it rather repulsive.[/QUOTE]When I see that, unless they have some great follow up photos, I just assume they are making a face to mask their ugliness or unworthiness to be a true sugar candidate. I'm sure that's not always the case, but yeah I don't particularly like to see it either. If there is one "goofy face" photo embedded within many "normal" ones, then I'm not too turned off by it. Another one is the fucking duck face phenomenon. I'm really not sure how it's been able to still be a thing this long. I've seen some that are making the duck face in every. Single. Photo.

I always try to think outside the box and consider theories other than my best guess. Some of them may be intentionally screwing up their faces in order to make themselves less recognizable. Some of them may be trying to make the goofiest face possible so that if someone recognizes them, they can say "oh I was just playing around on that site, did that photo look like I was serious? And so forth.

But even if they appear to be a good looking girl, it raises kind of a maturity red flag right off the bat. I'd rather they just block out part of their face and send better photos privately -- I'm more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt based on how they describe themselves in their profile than I am to reverse damage done by the image a really stupid headline photo leaves in my mind.

Another increasingly popular annoyance is weird hair (dreadlocks on white girls, extremely odd colors etc).

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2864439]When I see that, unless they have some great follow up photos, I just assume they are making a face to mask their ugliness or unworthiness to be a true sugar candidate. I'm sure that's not always the case, but yeah I don't particularly like to see it either. If there is one "goofy face" photo embedded within many "normal" ones, then I'm not too turned off by it. Another one is the fucking duck face phenomenon. I'm really not sure how it's been able to still be a thing this long. I've seen some that are making the duck face in every. Single. Photo.

I always try to think outside the box and consider theories other than my best guess. Some of them may be intentionally screwing up their faces in order to make themselves less recognizable. Some of them may be trying to make the goofiest face possible so that if someone recognizes them, they can say "oh I was just playing around on that site, did that photo look like I was serious? And so forth.

But even if they appear to be a good looking girl, it raises kind of a maturity red flag right off the bat. I'd rather they just block out part of their face and send better photos privately -- I'm more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt based on how they describe themselves in their profile than I am to reverse damage done by the image a really stupid headline photo leaves in my mind.

Another increasingly popular annoyance is weird hair (dreadlocks on white girls, extremely odd colors etc).[/QUOTE]At 18 they are still giggly ass kids LOL. The different hair doesn't bother me. What I don't get into is anyone who acts or plays ghetto. Major turn off.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;2864591]At 18 they are still giggly ass kids LOL. The different hair doesn't bother me. What I don't get into is anyone who acts or plays ghetto. Major turn off.[/QUOTE]FB comes in handy (sometimes) in eliminating those types. I care not only about how they act but the company they keep. Some girls post classy looking pictures of themselves, but their RL behavior and their choice of friends is anything but. I may have dodged a few bullets literally just by investing in research.

What are you guys putting as budget on your SA profile? I paid no mind to it and put practical. Well today a POT that I had been messaging asked how can I afford up 3,000 a month based on my income I was showing. I told her how many guys do you think are posting their real income. I don't post mine as I am not looking to attract greedy babies. She read it but didn't reply so I guess that date ain't going to happen.

Any way to tell from profile on SA if they're a woman from birth?

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;2867641]Any way to tell from profile on SA if they're a woman from birth?[/QUOTE]Take them to NC and see what bathroom they use.

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;2867641]Any way to tell from profile on SA if they're a woman from birth?[/QUOTE]Some of the "women" are straight up adn will say on their profile that they are transitioning.

One way to tell for sure, women do not have adam's apple, the enlargement of the thyroid cartilage surrounding the larynx.

[QUOTE=ToeLover57;2867121]What are you guys putting as budget on your SA profile? I paid no mind to it and put practical. Well today a POT that I had been messaging asked how can I afford up 3,000 a month based on my income I was showing. I told her how many guys do you think are posting their real income. I don't post mine as I am not looking to attract greedy babies. She read it but didn't reply so I guess that date ain't going to happen.[/QUOTE]I think it is fair to assume any girl asking that question isn't worthy of a reply. Any girl asking up front about money, shows where her focus is. Don't sweat it just go to the next one.

[QUOTE=ArcherSterling;2867781]Take them to NC and see what bathroom they use.[/QUOTE]Just ask. Make a joke of it! Nothing heavy, just something lite.

The probability of finding a trans girl is low. Most are up front as dudes get VERY violent if they find out they were deceived and just F'ed a trans. So to stay safe they will drop hints.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2868203]I think it is fair to assume any girl asking that question isn't worthy of a reply. Any girl asking up front about money, shows where her focus is. Don't sweat it just go to the next one.[/QUOTE]Why shouldn't a sb ask that question. Yep guess what, alot look on this a business so they are weeding out the guys who drive the stroll and complain about the sa membership cost or only books a hh session fromm his atf. If your posting a larger income then your more than likely going to get asked for more. How is that going to make you look when you tell the girl its something you made up LOL.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;2868231]Why shouldn't a sb ask that question. [/QUOTE]I had an SB jokingly tell me she made almost as much as I listed as my income.

But she understood COL and tax differential, so that even if I was dumbing down my income by only 25% to ward off GPS / Rinsers, my disposable income was akin to be 2 x her salary.

Not all are smart enough to do that kind of math.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;2868231]Why shouldn't a sb ask that question. Yep guess what, alot look on this a business so they are weeding out the guys who drive the stroll and complain about the sa membership cost or only books a hh session fromm his atf. If your posting a larger income then your more than likely going to get asked for more. How is that going to make you look when you tell the girl its something you made up LOL.[/QUOTE]Well given that everyone experiences the bowl differently-.

In my experience a girl who leads with questions about whether you can pay or not tend to be pros or girls just interested in the money. I have found a preoccupation with "how much am I getting" correlates well to a pizz poor date in the FC.

But hey, geography and personal styles given it is always a case of YMMV.

[QUOTE=ArcherSterling;2867781]Take them to NC and see what bathroom they use.[/QUOTE]LOL good one.

[QUOTE=ArcherSterling;2868458]I had an SB jokingly tell me she made almost as much as I listed as my income.

But she understood COL and tax differential, so that even if I was dumbing down my income by only 25% to ward off GPS / Rinsers, my disposable income was akin to be 2 x her salary.

Not all are smart enough to do that kind of math.[/QUOTE]No doubt some of these girls do make some serious dough. I don't think any of them have to do the math if the guy says that's not his income. Only 2 ways you can go if you admit that. If its more your a cheap bastard and if its lower your a lying bastard in their eyes.

Anyone else having logon problems with SA today? I get logged off ever few minutes, and when I try to log back on it says they can't find my membership a handful of times before it lets me back in the site.

[QUOTE=BikeRider;2869783]Anyone else having logon problems with SA today? I get logged off ever few minutes, and when I try to log back on it says they can't find my membership a handful of times before it lets me back in the site.[/QUOTE]Not just you.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;2869084]No doubt some of these girls do make some serious dough. I don't think any of them have to do the math if the guy says that's not his income. Only 2 ways you can go if you admit that. If its more your a cheap bastard and if its lower your a lying bastard in their eyes.[/QUOTE]Doubt it -otherwise they would not be here. Maybe the Pros looking for clients and posing as an SB.

Anyone had whole screen ads Popup when logging on to USASG? If so how do you get rid of them?

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2869836]

Anyone had whole screen ads Popup when logging on to USASG? If so how do you get rid of them?[/QUOTE]Yes, that is happening to me too. Not sure it is possible to block that from happening.

Considering this site I'd FREE, a small irritation seems like a small price to pay to allow Jackson the opportunity to pay his bills, make a profit and keep the site free.