"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=RubberyMan;2680161]First of all, what you do with your own money is your business. You can feed it to a furnace for fun if that's what floats your boat.

While it is true that if you want to drive a better car then you generally have to pay more, that is often not the case in p4 p, and definitely not the case in the sugar bowl as anyone who has been doing it for any time will agree. In fact, some of the best performances can come at lower prices, while poor performance can come from higher prices. That is, while you do get a better car for more $, it is often the case that you get worse performance for more $ in p4 p and the bowl. This is because that coed who needs to make rent tomorrow, or else, is a lot more motivated than someone who just needs an extra pair of designer shoes. Unless you think that someone wanting another luxury item is somehow going to be more motivated than someone needing rent in order to keep a roof over the head.

Of course, by all means, if you absolutely have to have a particular woman, and no other will do, then pretty obviously you pay what she asks, and that's a bargain for you. Great. But most likely, the next guy she negotiates with will laugh in disbelief and she will too, and give just as good a performance for him at a fraction of the cost.

Finally, I do agree that guys here seem more worried than they should about some guys "overpaying". Personally, I think it is the stories of guys overpaying that brings most girls to the site, and the stories of some chumps being circulated amongst them is a good thing. The sugar bowl is like a lottery for them. In a lottery, most get nothing, quite a few get small returns, a couple do well and one in a million hit the jackpot. In the bowl, most don't even get an inquiry, most have to be happy with $- inly a very few hit the jackpot. But, here's the important point, just like in a lottery, it is the hope of winning the big one that keeps them trying, and the noise from the occasional win keeps them hanging in there.

So, I rather say thanks to those guys who pay more than they need to. It is their sacrifice that keeps women flocking here.[/QUOTE]Rub. I guess I'm glad I can be of service. You're right, paying a higher amount is no guarantee that the performance will be better. And maybe you are getting exactly the same service for less money. But maybe not. I've been around for a while too (my posts go back 7 years), and I think I do a pretty good job of profiling POTs in the M&G. I haven't been disappointed yet. But how can you be sure that insisting on negotiating a lower price right off the bat doesn't impact the SB's impression of you and her attitude toward your meetings? If you have to negotiate for financial reasons, or if winning a negotiation with a 20 year old college student gives you a rise, go for it. You're right, some of them may be desperate and feel like they have to take your offer. But I think it's naive to think that might not impact the service, reliability and loyalty you get. Besides, I don't think I pay too much (especially compared to other options in this area) and I have enjoyed my experiences. To each his own.

Stark.

[QUOTE=RubberyMan;2680161]First of all, what you do with your own money is your business. You can feed it to a furnace for fun if that's what floats your boat.

While it is true that if you want to drive a better car then you generally have to pay more, that is often not the case in p4 p, and definitely not the case in the sugar bowl as anyone who has been doing it for any time will agree. In fact, some of the best performances can come at lower prices, while poor performance can come from higher prices. That is, while you do get a better car for more $, it is often the case that you get worse performance for more $ in p4 p and the bowl. This is because that coed who needs to make rent tomorrow, or else, is a lot more motivated than someone who just needs an extra pair of designer shoes. Unless you think that someone wanting another luxury item is somehow going to be more motivated than someone needing rent in order to keep a roof over the head.

Of course, by all means, if you absolutely have to have a particular woman, and no other will do, then pretty obviously you pay what she asks, and that's a bargain for you. Great. But most likely, the next guy she negotiates with will laugh in disbelief and she will too, and give just as good a performance for him at a fraction of the cost.

Finally, I do agree that guys here seem more worried than they should about some guys "overpaying". Personally, I think it is the stories of guys overpaying that brings most girls to the site, and the stories of some chumps being circulated amongst them is a good thing. The sugar bowl is like a lottery for them. In a lottery, most get nothing, quite a few get small returns, a couple do well and one in a million hit the jackpot. In the bowl, most don't even get an inquiry, most have to be happy with $- inly a very few hit the jackpot. But, here's the important point, just like in a lottery, it is the hope of winning the big one that keeps them trying, and the noise from the occasional win keeps them hanging in there.

So, I rather say thanks to those guys who pay more than they need to. It is their sacrifice that keeps women flocking here.[/QUOTE]Rub. I guess I'm glad I can be of service. You're right, paying a higher amount is no guarantee that the performance will be better. And maybe you are getting exactly the same service for less money. But maybe not. I've been around for a while too (my posts go back 7 years), and I think I do a pretty good job of profiling POTs in the M&G. Frankly, I try to avoid SBs that give off too strong a desperation vibe. To me, those women are just trouble waiting to happen. And so far, I haven't been disappointed or run into any crazy flakes. But how can you be sure that insisting on negotiating a lower price right off the bat doesn't negatively impact the SB's impression of you and her attitude toward your meetings? If you have to negotiate for financial reasons, or if winning a negotiation with a 20 year old college student gives you a rise, go for it. You're right, some of them may be desperate and feel like they have to take your offer. But I think it's naive to think that might not impact the service, reliability and loyalty you get in return. Besides, I don't think I pay too much (especially compared to other options in this area) and I have enjoyed my experiences. To each his own.

Stark.

[QUOTE=Beachesnole02;2681240]You cannot buy a car on credit from a used car dealer without a tracker being installed, and it will tell not only where the car is, but it gives and history every 20 minutes of the cars life. On some they install several. Trackers are cheap, $100, and it protects the collateral...[/QUOTE]Now I have to make sure there is no such thing on my car otherwise I am sitting duck with the missus! So how do I detect the presence of a tracker on my car? Bought it used for cash from a new car dealer.

First off, got to agree with Rubbery, FM, and other contributors. If a guy can drop a $$ $$ $$ $$ a date, more power to him. Besides the laws of economics always apply. The higher the amounts some guys pay, the more pots come into the bowl. When more pots come into the bowl, allowances for guys who aren't willing to pay those amounts goes down.

As for the quality of the time spent together, I've found that the actual allowance doesn't matter so much as the your ability to connect with a pot. I've also found that the better you connect with a pot, the lower the allowance requirements tend to be. Of course the exceptions that I've found to this rule tend to be the UTRs and the pros.

Also, I got to say though, my experience with negotiating backwards is completely different than yours. I've played in different cities and regions, but maybe its a Richmond thing? Every time I start at an allowance, it only goes up from there. I think I remember HWG saying the same thing.

Sure, once a girl gets to the FC and realizes that your not a creep, its easy a piece of cake to get there again, but every time I've even tried to go lower than the original allowance, its ends things quickly. I've found that most women tie their worth to the allowance you provide. If you start decreasing the amount you originally agreed for an allowance, I've found that they equate it to you telling them that you value them less than when you first met them.

Just my experience and two cents though.

[QUOTE=Starkey2008;2679550]Rub. I agree but if you read the threads on this board you see guys constantly begging everyone to negotiate down to a certain range so that all the SBs stay in their price range. Sorry, but I'm not working with your interest in mind. In RVA, the halfway decent BP girls get $ - $. 50 for half an hour. The top end agency girls and independents get $$. 50 - $$ 50 for an hour and won't do a half. So for a couple of hours with a girl who is 20 or younger, hot, smart, clean, GFE and fun to be with (not just bone) it seems to me that $$ - $$$ is a pretty good deal. I wouldn't pay more than that, and I have negotiated with a couple of them, but hard-core negotiating up front just seems like a negative to me. If you want to drive a Mercedes you pay for a Mercedes. Some guys have mentioned starting at a lower price and then moving up but I find that it is much easier to move the sugar down after the first FC encounter. At that point, many of the risks and unknowns have been removed. An SB who knows that you are not a creep, not a freak and just a regular guy that they don't mind spending time with is much more willing to be flexible with their sugar requirements.[/QUOTE]

First off, I got to say I agree with you. Sugar for sugar is my number one rule. Got to say though, one of my new regulars in my rotation has been telling me stories of guys send email gift cards to her to coax her to the m&g. She has no reason to lie to me since we already have an understanding in place. She thought it was awesome when she ended up cancelling the m&g because of something that came up, and then the guy sent her a pretty big gift card. Presumably to get her to meet up and not cancel again. She told me that she was contemplating whether she should set up another m&g and then cancel last minute to see if he would do it again.

Hey, if you have it like that, then more power to you.

[QUOTE=Graham111;2679379]Just one big one. Sugar for sugar. The sugar flows when the panties hit the floor.

Interesting discussion on advances. Agree with Hoya. It depends on chemistry and the SB. I had a visit scheduled with SB 25 and had to cancel. Turned out she was going on vacation and needed the $$. She had told me about vacation previously. I offered the advance and met her at a quick stop for the exchange. Heard from her as soon as she returned and received a stellar performance. But have been burned as well so it goes both ways.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=LaoMai;2679235]Guys, are there rules you set for the SB when you are drafting the arrangement before the FC? If yes, what are they? How you bring your message through to them?[/QUOTE]The Bowl is a confidence game. I make no specific rules on sugar amounts. If anything I'd say there will be sugar based on performance and the amounts will vary. I make sure to let them know they're dealing with a winner and not to fret over a payday. Be good to me and I'll be good to you.

The main thing that makes SB dating entertaining is getting to the psychology of these girls. Once you break that down a lot of these girls can be yours for life. That's when the real rules come in. Fun times!

"Every time I start at an allowance, it only goes up from there. I think I remember HWG saying the same thing. " Smelly.

Currently have a borderline performer and have negotiated a lower allowance. I need to cut the play budget and opted to take a risk that she would bolt. But in the end, I am comfortable but satisfaction is barely adequate, so if I lose her I can probably find a better one. She might look to add more SDs to make up the difference--and might have been doing that anyway. Who ever knows that when seeing someone once / week? M&Gs are a big risk for me, so I tend to take what I can get if there is any attraction.

The bottom line -satisfaction depends on the quality of care one's SB provides. If she makes herself indispensable by blowing your mind every visit, then most of us will go out of our way to make her happy and keep her in the rotation. Sex is sex even with a 10/10 ,but if they get into your mind it is much better.

So I'd like to have a FB page set up for the Bowl as I think it adds credibility to those who might look. Now I see FB seems to have restrictions in place that weren't there when I set up a Monger FB page years ago. I went through the sign up process and did the phone verification bit, using the burner phone and GV #. No hitches there. THEN FB wants me to upload Gubmint issued Photo ID to confirm identity? WTF!

Did I F up the process some how? Is there some way around this?

Now I still have the Monger FB page, but only access that through Privacy Browser. That shows a different IP address from the IP address when using FF or Chrome.

Any guidance from one more techno savvy? Thanks!

So my age range that I like is between the 18-25/26 yr old pots / babies. Increasingly I'm finding that the ones that are under 21 want me to either provide them alcohol or order it for them when we are out.

I've always refused in the past, but a few recent dates that were supposed to go to the FC have ended badly because of it. A date this past weekend ended quickly when I told the pot not to use her fake is when she was out with me.

From my perspective, my career and real life are too important to risk dealing with issues like this. Out of curiosity, are others dealing with the same issue? Guess I just need to increase my age range to stop having to deal with these issues, and it would save me the headache of the flakiness that comes with the younger ones.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2682308]So my age range that I like is between the 18-25/26 yr old pots / babies. Increasingly I'm finding that the ones that are under 21 want me to either provide them alcohol or order it for them when we are out.

I've always refused in the past, but a few recent dates that were supposed to go to the FC have ended badly because of it. A date this past weekend ended quickly when I told the pot not to use her fake is when she was out with me.

From my perspective, my career and real life are too important to risk dealing with issues like this. Out of curiosity, are others dealing with the same issue? Guess I just need to increase my age range to stop having to deal with these issues, and it would save me the headache of the flakiness that comes with the younger ones.[/QUOTE]I personally have never encountered this. I also don't do M&G. First meet is always at the FC. Maybe the lobby of the hotel to meet and see if their is a 'connection (LOL), but then after 15 minutes it's up to the room. Sometimes they joke about 420 or drinking. I always tell them to do whatever they want before they see me. But no smoking or drinking in the room.

I haven't had an issue yet. Obviously everyone's experiences will be different.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2682308]So my age range that I like is between the 18-25/26 yr old pots / babies. Increasingly I'm finding that the ones that are under 21 want me to either provide them alcohol or order it for them when we are out.

I've always refused in the past, but a few recent dates that were supposed to go to the FC have ended badly because of it. A date this past weekend ended quickly when I told the pot not to use her fake is when she was out with me.

From my perspective, my career and real life are too important to risk dealing with issues like this. Out of curiosity, are others dealing with the same issue? Guess I just need to increase my age range to stop having to deal with these issues, and it would save me the headache of the flakiness that comes with the younger ones.[/QUOTE]Here are some solutions:

1) M&G at coffee shop -no ETOH option.

2) let her use her Fake I.d. But have separate tabs -just give her the $ to cover the bill. That way she is not your guest and is under her own order.

3) Don't go out -I take them right to the FC from Starbucks.

4) provide ETOH in the FC for her- A slightly drunk new Baby is not all bad. But legal implications are huge-car wreck on the way home and Mom or Cops asking "who gave you the drinks?

5) Have a discussion before the fact and tell her your limits. Providing consensual sex to an 18 yr old is legal, contributing to the delinquency of a minor at 18 is not. If an SB does not respect your legal position then I wouldn't take her out.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2682308]So my age range that I like is between the 18-25/26 yr old pots / babies. Increasingly I'm finding that the ones that are under 21 want me to either provide them alcohol or order it for them when we are out.

I've always refused in the past, but a few recent dates that were supposed to go to the FC have ended badly because of it. A date this past weekend ended quickly when I told the pot not to use her fake is when she was out with me.

From my perspective, my career and real life are too important to risk dealing with issues like this. Out of curiosity, are others dealing with the same issue? Guess I just need to increase my age range to stop having to deal with these issues, and it would save me the headache of the flakiness that comes with the younger ones.[/QUOTE]The youngest SB I went out with was 20 so not really a big deal. In fact, a few times I took her out and she didn't get carded when ordering drinks. The 18-21 have lower expectations, so are a bit cheaper and less needy. They can get attached or clingy because no matter how little you're spending it's more than her 22 yr old boyfriend. I found the young ones are more inclined to BBBJ or BB FC on first date. I had fun with them, but I felt 23-27 was the right mix for maturity and being fun natured. I stay away from girls that have serious financial needs. SB's that are students and looking for fun money or much more care-free and fun than a 28 SB trying to make rent and struggling to keep her cell phone paid.

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;2681468]Now I have to make sure there is no such thing on my car otherwise I am sitting duck with the missus! So how do I detect the presence of a tracker on my car? Bought it used for cash from a new car dealer.[/QUOTE]If your SO wants to track you she could simply place a cell phone in your car and track it that way.

Agree with you 100 %. The young pots sbs tend to be more carefree and a little bit more sexually uninhibited, although I've never met a SB from SA that wouldn't BBBJ. Actually I take that back, I did meet a young latina that would not BJ at all, but aside from her, every baby I've known has BBBJ. The latina did not last more than two FC dates.

For that reason, I like the 18 - 20 year old age range since they tend to be a little more open minded to what can happen in the FC. Of course, like you mention, the lack of maturity for most of these girls here irritating after the fourth or fifth date, and even though they might be hot, the endless variety makes it hard to keep any one of them around for too long.

I think I am just going to have to go with FM's recommendation #5 below and throw it out there at the m&g to make it clear that its not ok to be drinking with me if you're under 21. It's too much to deal with the real life implications and drama of dealing with a drunk 19 year old who gets into a car accident, is throwing up in the toilet next to her parents room after going out with me, or after she gets picked up by the campus police and tells them she got drunk after a night out with me.

Might as well get it out of the way up front. Besides, the rate at which new pots sign up makes dealing with ones that might put me at risk a stupid proposition. Speaking of which, the holidays are coming up. Which means the tide of the bowl will be flowing strong in just a few weeks. New pots will be signing up like crazy.

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2682441]The youngest SB I went out with was 20 so not really a big deal. In fact, a few times I took her out and she didn't get carded when ordering drinks. The 18-21 have lower expectations, so are a bit cheaper and less needy. They can get attached or clingy because no matter how little you're spending it's more than her 22 yr old boyfriend. I found the young ones are more inclined to BBBJ or BB FC on first date. I had fun with them, but I felt 23-27 was the right mix for maturity and being fun natured. I stay away from girls that have serious financial needs. SB's that are students and looking for fun money or much more care-free and fun than a 28 SB trying to make rent and struggling to keep her cell phone paid.[/QUOTE]

All good policies.

Wish I could pull off a lobby m&g to the FC, but my game doesn't allow for that. I am not at that level yet.

[QUOTE=Krill;2682326]I personally have never encountered this. I also don't do M&G. First meet is always at the FC. Maybe the lobby of the hotel to meet and see if their is a 'connection (LOL), but then after 15 minutes it's up to the room. Sometimes they joke about 420 or drinking. I always tell them to do whatever they want before they see me. But no smoking or drinking in the room.

I haven't had an issue yet. Obviously everyone's experiences will be different.[/QUOTE]

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I'm new to this forum, but been around. Decided I was going to dig into the SB thing and started some conversations with a few SB's. Some looked really good. Found one that was up for a M&G and I sent her my # so we could text. Burner layered with GV. As soon as I received her number I googled it. Nothing. I then went to my number one source for cell lookups and get her name and came back with an address. A bit more searching on the address and I found both her married and former name, as well as a flag for some convictions.

Digging into some public records she's been busted a few times for DWI, says she lives nearby (which maybe true now) but the convictions were in far off counties. Needless to say, she wanted to meet and I now know she's on a suspended, limited use license and a car with a breath lock.

Needless to say, do your homework and be careful out there. Glad I spent a few extra minutes doing some research before the M&G.

I was scheduled to meet this girl after one failed attempt. 10 minutes before we were supposed to meet, I am driving by the way, she texted me to say that she can't meet.

Because she was feeling ill. What the fuck!! I hate this bitches sometimes.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2682288]So I'd like to have a FB page set up for the Bowl as I think it adds credibility to those who might look. Now I see FB seems to have restrictions in place that weren't there when I set up a Monger FB page years ago. I went through the sign up process and did the phone verification bit, using the burner phone and GV #. No hitches there. THEN FB wants me to upload Gubmint issued Photo ID to confirm identity? WTF!

Did I F up the process some how? Is there some way around this?

Now I still have the Monger FB page, but only access that through Privacy Browser. That shows a different IP address from the IP address when using FF or Chrome.

Any guidance from one more techno savvy? Thanks![/QUOTE]Don't take this the wrong way because I don't think this is what you are looking for, but putting the idea of Facebook into ANY sort of context, hobby or otherwise, which requires any level of privacy, is a very bad idea.

The whole point to FB is identifying people, tracking them in ways that most folks will not even begin to realize (forget IP addresses and cookies, there's a lot more to it than that but suffice it to say that there are a lot of ways to identify you).

Invasion of privacy is central to Facebook's business model -- it is what they do. Aside from using a fake account to look up SBs and such, I would stay far away from mixing that and the bowl in any way shape or form if you need anonymity/privacy.

On the other hand if you're a single SD that doesn't mind hooking up using your real name don't mind the whole world knowing what you're doing / not doing anything illegal, there's plenty of pussy to be had on FB.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2683686]Don't take this the wrong way because I don't think this is what you are looking for, but putting the idea of Facebook into ANY sort of context, hobby or otherwise, which requires any level of privacy, is a very bad idea.

The whole point to FB is identifying people, tracking them in ways that most folks will not even begin to realize (forget IP addresses and cookies, there's a lot more to it than that but suffice it to say that there are a lot of ways to identify you).

Invasion of privacy is central to Facebook's business model -- it is what they do. Aside from using a fake account to look up SBs and such, I would stay far away from mixing that and the bowl in any way shape or form if you need anonymity/privacy.

On the other hand if you're a single SD that doesn't mind hooking up using your real name don't mind the whole world knowing what you're doing / not doing anything illegal, there's plenty of pussy to be had on FB.[/QUOTE]

I hear ya. But the FB account I have now is fake. Fake name, monger email addy, monger phone. I only posted a few obscure pics that no one would be able to ID me from, pics that are used no where else on the web. I don't run around and "like" anything. So my FB account is pretty barren. On purpose.

But the account allows me to search SBs and others (numbers, email addys) which is an essential part of the "tool kit" in my estimation.

But I need to dump everything and start over. Just got an upgraded monger phone and the old number will get trashed and in 6-months GV will reassign it! I got a new GV number to use going forward with my new burner phone. Didn't need any I'd to set up the burner phone and will pay cash for refills.

Seems like there ought to be a way to register the "new" monger FB account?

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2683737]I hear ya. But the FB account I have now is fake. Fake name, monger email addy, monger phone. I only posted a few obscure pics that no one would be able to ID me from, pics that are used no where else on the web. I don't run around and "like" anything. So my FB account is pretty barren. On purpose.

But the account allows me to search SBs and others (numbers, email addys) which is an essential part of the "tool kit" in my estimation.

But I need to dump everything and start over. Just got an upgraded monger phone and the old number will get trashed and in 6-months GV will reassign it! I got a new GV number to use going forward with my new burner phone. Didn't need any I'd to set up the burner phone and will pay cash for refills.

Seems like there ought to be a way to register the "new" monger FB account?[/QUOTE]Yeah a fake account to search with is fine, I was referring to the act of creating a groups or any other form of interacting (friending / liking etc). FB has elaborate internal facial recognition technology, so if your face was remotely visible in any of the previously uploaded photos they likely will be able to link you conclusively to the new account if you add new photos. If the pictures were taken with the same device, they will know easily, probably flagged as part of the upload process. If you log in from the same physical device, they will know (even with best efforts like Tor). If those devices have ever been signed into a Google or Apple account, they may potentially know. The very processor in the device used for either taking photos or logging into Facebook can be linked back to you personally (although I'm not sure how easy that would be for them to do). Most of this stuff is not really anything anyone should be concerned about if they aren't engaging in anything too sketchy, but some or all of the things I have covered here (and believe me there is a lot more) can be used to detect duplicate accounts, and it sounds like that's what you're running into, simple duplicate prevention. Tor might help to an extent for anonymizing IP, as would private VPN services but it won't bypass a lot of the identification techniques available these days.

I used to be super nice to pots, regardless of how irritated I was because they stood me up, tried to rinse me, etc. The advice on this forum was to be nice since you never know if that pot might eventually come around.

I've become less nice when a pot is rude, flakes, or tries to rinse me. Nowadays, I am more firm than anything else. I've found that it doesn't matter with the ones that would have never seen me, but that being firm is pretty effective for the submissive types who just need some discipline.

Besides, at the rate new girls are signing up, and with the holidays around the corner, its about to get very busy for all of us.

Just my two cents and what has been effective for me.

[QUOTE=Ltnric;2683639]I was scheduled to meet this girl after one failed attempt. 10 minutes before we were supposed to meet, I am driving by the way, she texted me to say that she can't meet.

Because she was feeling ill. What the fuck!! I hate this bitches sometimes.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Ltnric;2683639]I was scheduled to meet this girl after one failed attempt. 10 minutes before we were supposed to meet, I am driving by the way, she texted me to say that she can't meet.

Because she was feeling ill. What the fuck!! I hate this bitches sometimes.[/QUOTE]Here, I think I can one up you. Just fucking tonight. Now the past couple of days I've been texting with a new POT about 21, and local to me, which is a huge plus. Really difficult to find local. Anyway we hit it off great. She's was really cool, easy to talk to, and seemed to be very accommodating. She wanted to meet soon, so yesterday I set up a meet and she flaked. No text to cancel or anything. Her excuse was she fell asleep on the couch. So this morning she gets back to me and apologizes and wants to meet today or tonight, so I set it up for tonight at 7:30. A caveat to report is that my 31 yo baby came to my house about 1:30 for a FC session. Now she is reliable as hell. I got my workout in and stopped by my go to stripper bar to see a 22 yo girl there who is seriously considering my baby offer. But I digress. I text the new 21 yo POT to confirm our meeting and nothing back. So by 7 pm I reach out to an old 23 yr old baby, who reached out to me after about two months, after I fired her for being flaky. She was sorry and blah blah, so I thought maybe she grew up a little and found out she had it pretty good while she was with me. I actually had something set up for tomorrow, because this new POT I already had plans with. So I reach out to the 23 yo, and she accepts for tonight. I text on when to come pick her up, because she shares a car with her roommate. Nothing. No reply. Just went silent. So I got flaked on twice in one night. Motha Fucker. This shit so pisses me off when these young cunts pull this shit. Now I'm going to head back to the strip club, so that is where my night will end.

I hate flakes.

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2684110]Here, I think I can one up you. Just fucking tonight. Now the past couple of days I've been texting with a new POT about 21, and local to me, which is a huge plus. Really difficult to find local. Anyway we hit it off great. She's was really cool, easy to talk to, and seemed to be very accommodating. She wanted to meet soon, so yesterday I set up a meet and she flaked. No text to cancel or anything. Her excuse was she fell asleep on the couch. So this morning she gets back to me and apologizes and wants to meet today or tonight, so I set it up for tonight at 7:30. A caveat to report is that my 31 yo baby came to my house about 1:30 for a FC session. Now she is reliable as hell. I got my workout in and stopped by my go to stripper bar to see a 22 yo girl there who is seriously considering my baby offer. But I digress. I text the new 21 yo POT to confirm our meeting and nothing back. So by 7 pm I reach out to an old 23 yr old baby, who reached out to me after about two months, after I fired her for being flaky. She was sorry and blah blah, so I thought maybe she grew up a little and found out she had it pretty good while she was with me. I actually had something set up for tomorrow, because this new POT I already had plans with. So I reach out to the 23 yo, and she accepts for tonight. I text on when to come pick her up, because she shares a car with her roommate. Nothing. No reply. Just went silent. So I got flaked on twice in one night. Motha Fucker. This shit so pisses me off when these young cunts pull this shit. Now I'm going to head back to the strip club, so that is where my night will end.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2683749]Yeah a fake account to search with is fine, I was referring to the act of creating a groups or any other form of interacting (friending / liking etc). FB has elaborate internal facial recognition technology, so if your face was remotely visible in any of the previously uploaded photos they likely will be able to link you conclusively to the new account if you add new photos. If the pictures were taken with the same device, they will know easily, probably flagged as part of the upload process. If you log in from the same physical device, they will know (even with best efforts like Tor). If those devices have ever been signed into a Google or Apple account, they may potentially know. The very processor in the device used for either taking photos or logging into Facebook can be linked back to you personally (although I'm not sure how easy that would be for them to do). Most of this stuff is not really anything anyone should be concerned about if they aren't engaging in anything too sketchy, but some or all of the things I have covered here (and believe me there is a lot more) can be used to detect duplicate accounts, and it sounds like that's what you're running into, simple duplicate prevention. Tor might help to an extent for anonymizing IP, as would private VPN services but it won't bypass a lot of the identification techniques available these days.[/QUOTE]First off. Facial recognition. I NEVER put a real picture of me out there in cyberspace when it comes to any form of Mongering. The pictures I do share are dude I gave found thousands of miles away. Never had a girl complain that what showed up was different (worse) that what was sent. I have taken shots of me and shots of some other dude and used one of those merge programs that gives a composite. It looks enough like me, but enough different.

Now when setting up the new account, I had no pictures posted yet! Can't get into it yet!

As far as the "stuff" that is attached to a photo in the background. I always copy part of the image from the original and paste it into a Paint of something and save it as a different file type (for example jpeg vs bmp).

Yeah, I know that nothing on line is ever truly anonymous. But as a buddy told me (he was a cop then a public defender) if the system wants to find you, they will find you! But he said the resources required to do that are so great it outweighs the value on a case that is a misdemeanor.

So from what you appear to be saying. There is no way to set up a fake FB account, since the computer internals will alert FB to a duplicate account?

Are there really none of us who haven't lined up multiple SBs and then decided which one to go with and cancelled the others?

Granted, we probably don't do that with less than a couple of hours notice, but I know several, myself included who play the odds.

I was just out of town and lined up 2 or 3 for each night I was in town, and each night one bailed on me and I cancelled one to go with the Best Available Player on the board.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2684473]First off. Facial recognition. I NEVER put a real picture of me out there in cyberspace when it comes to any form of Mongering. The pictures I do share are dude I gave found thousands of miles away. Never had a girl complain that what showed up was different (worse) that what was sent. I have taken shots of me and shots of some other dude and used one of those merge programs that gives a composite. It looks enough like me, but enough different.

Now when setting up the new account, I had no pictures posted yet! Can't get into it yet!

As far as the "stuff" that is attached to a photo in the background. I always copy part of the image from the original and paste it into a Paint of something and save it as a different file type (for example jpeg vs bmp).

Yeah, I know that nothing on line is ever truly anonymous. But as a buddy told me (he was a cop then a public defender) if the system wants to find you, they will find you! But he said the resources required to do that are so great it outweighs the value on a case that is a misdemeanor.

So from what you appear to be saying. There is no way to set up a fake FB account, since the computer internals will alert FB to a duplicate account?[/QUOTE]As long as you do something to obscure face (black out / blur etc) facial recognition usually won't be able to overcome it, it's just that FB is quietly investing a lot more in this than others (and they have the bucks to do it) so no one really knows what cards they have under the table in that area. Most of my comments re: pictures only refer to uploading them to FB, not e-mailing privately or whatever. I just wanted to point it out for you or anyone else reading on, that uploading a photo with visible face under one account, then later uploading a different photo of same person under a different account has probably irreversibly linked those two identities in FB's record keeping, such that if they ever wanted a "real" FB account and upload a photo of themselves, FB now has linked the real identity to the prior fake ones. As they say, once it's uploaded to the Net it's there forever.

The cop / public defender was correct about expenditure of public resources, however in this case companies like FB, who have huge amounts of capital to throw toward the task of tracking people, are taking care of the expenditure part so that the law doesn't have to. A lot of times LEO are able to put cases together based on what is already publicly available on social media. Facebook has become an incredibly handy investigation tool for them, and that's without even subpoenaing FB or asking for cooperation!

An analogy: Imagine if some clever entrepreneur came along, and decided to provide free hotel rooms by the hour to any couple who needed a discrete place to fuck. Every one from cheating couples to mongerers to the sugar scene to young people who can't afford their own place would say "holy shit this is too good to pass up! A free fuck chamber as a public service!"...... Only catch is, the clever entrepreneur retains the right to two things: to display advertisements on the TV in the room, and also save a sample of everyone's DNA who enters one of the rooms, catalog it, and basically own the cataloging of that information as intellectual property, finding ways of monetizing that property as they see fit. All of that DNA collection, funded by advertisements, could then be made available to law enforcement and criminals would start getting busted left and right without even knowing HTF LE got their DNA in the first place. This is in essence what Facebook (and social media in general) is in the business of doing -- not with sex and biological DNA of course but they are in the business of cataloging people. And a lot of people are going happily along without fully understanding the consequences to privacy and individual freedoms.

But, just to clarify I didn't mean to imply an SD has anything to fear (criminally) by being on Facebook -- that part is just as your friend said, misdemeanors are too small and there are bigger fish to fry. But for those who are married or have other reasons to protect their anonymity, it is a big concern.

About your last question -- is there a way to set up a fake FB account? I don't know all the mechanisms they may be employing to detect / prevent duplicates, I just suspect based on what you've said that this is the obstacle you've encountered. I have a fake FB account but I have not created one in a while. I do know that a lot of the services I've used to create burner email addresses in the past now want phone authentication, and they also have something in place that is able to differentiate valid mobile numbers from something like Hushed which lets you buy disposable phone numbers. All just a sign that this shit is getting more and more difficult to do anonymously.

If I were going to try to create a new FB account and their system had already flagged me as a duplicate, I would probably first try to take some steps that are well into the discussion of computer forensics and beyond reach of something that can be practically discussed here or taught in any reasonable amount of time, but if those methods failed me, I would just try from a different computer over an anonymized VPN.

Sure, when there are multiple pots in play, it makes sense to line up multiple options in case one or two flake, or if one isn't as her picture shows.

My approach is to line up three dates within an hour of each other, and then set up a "tentative" date. When I have enough pots to line up a tentative date, I let the third know: "hey, I have one or two commitments on Saturday afternoon, but if I free up, let's try to get together. I'll make sure to text you to give you a heads up if I am able to meet. If something comes up on your end, just let me know. ".

Now if things with pot 1 go well, you can take a short break to see pot 2, and then tell the tentative date that you can't get out of your committments. If things with pot 1 don't work, or if she flakes, then you can read and respond to work emails for a few minutes until the next m&g. If both firm dates flake, then the tentative date could still be an option if she didn't make any plans.

Just my two cents on how I avoid flaking, while also keeping multiple pots in play. To date I have not exceeded the 3 m&g strategy because it would be too complicated for me.

[QUOTE=ArcherSterling;2684587]Are there really none of us who haven't lined up multiple SBs and then decided which one to go with and cancelled the others?

Granted, we probably don't do that with less than a couple of hours notice, but I know several, myself included who play the odds.

I was just out of town and lined up 2 or 3 for each night I was in town, and each night one bailed on me and I cancelled one to go with the Best Available Player on the board.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ArcherSterling;2679413]Use the [URL]hotels.com[/URL] app and book when she is in front of you.

Always good to have a back up gal you see occassionally to promote to a regular.[/QUOTE]Just be careful it doesn't charge to your card right away. Presuming you want to pay cash.

Many of the [URL]hotel.com[/URL] rooms will charge you straight away. Always, make sure that the reservation is pay at the hotel. That way you can pay cash. Or better yet use a gift card.

I've been off SA for about 3 months but been getting messages from pots so was wondering if anyone knows how SA works as far as when they ask you to come back at a discount?

And does your acct have to be totally inactive before they ask you back bec I've been signing on to see who has been contacting me but unable to read the messages so was just wondering if I wait longer if they will give me the discount rate?

[QUOTE=BikeRider;2685129]Just be careful it doesn't charge to your card right away. Presuming you want to pay cash.

Many of the [URL]hotel.com[/URL] rooms will charge you straight away. Always, make sure that the reservation is pay at the hotel. That way you can pay cash. Or better yet use a gift card.[/QUOTE]Does anyone know how long it takes for SA to offer the discount rate after you have been expired for a while?

I have not renewed in three months and have received a few messages from pots in the past two weeks so I signed on to see who sent them but can not read them so I don't know if that counts as being inactive?

I am just wondering if I wit longer how long does it take for SA to offer the come back rate?

[QUOTE=SugarDaddyX;2671606]I had two meets set for yesterday.

The first meet was at a Chili's at 1 pm. I had texted with the SB all day before. Then I texted to confirm an hour before the meet. She did not reply. She texted later in the day, wanting to push it back a few hours to 3 pm. Then, when I tried to reconfirm again a half hour before, no reply. She texts around 5 pm, apologizing that her phone died. Yeah, right. She used that excuse twice in a 24 hour period already. I just told her that time is money, and she wasted my whole afternoon. My guess is that she might have been meeting with other SD's. Even though she works a regular job, she seems UTR. I have a low tolerance for bullshit, so this one is cut loose.[/QUOTE]This one starts texting me 8 days after flaking, asking if I could meet. I told her that since she wasted my time last week, she'd have to meet for free. I did not specify further. She went off and cussed me out. She jumped to her own assumptions. This told me she is UTR and has a long list of John's that she mass texts every time she needs money. As she will get multiple responses every time, she will try to juggle them and maximize her money. This is why she kept pushing my M&G several hours back at a time throughout the day. She was getting the regulars serviced before getting to a new potential john. I am interested in a GFE low / no volume SB, not doing a proverbial "train" with a bunch of guys she meets off SA. Sure enough, I Google her SA handle and only one result comes up: a post about two weeks prior on my local USASG board of a whoremongerer saying he banged her and was willing to share info on her. I'm sure she has dozens of John's after her. No thanks.

[QUOTE=SugarDaddyX;2671606]I had a meetup set at another chain restaurant at 7 for dinner. This SB is so broke, that her phone got disconnected due to not paying the bill. All communication was through the sugar website. She confirmed that she was going to be there three hours prior. Then about 6:45, she messages that she is having car trouble and asks if we can reschedule tomorrow. I don't even bother to reply. One strike, and you're out.[/QUOTE]This one kept lighting up my SA account. Apologizing at first, then several days later saying how horrible I was because I don't have patience. I never knew someone who could have a car breakdown, then have the thing fixed the next day by lunch when they have no money. These SB's are not the sharpest knife in the drawer. If she really wanted to meet, she could have asked for a ride or taken a taxi to be paid by me upon arrival.

In other news, I was talking to a 22 year old black girl. Her use of the English language was pretty bad, but her body looked good so I went along with it. Eventually she suggests we Skype. She sends me her Skype name. It turns out she uses the same name for Inatagram. The pictures in Instagram were a lot less appealing, not the fit body she portrayed on SA. She also used the word "nigga" several times in every ebonics-laden post. It looked like there was a gang banger / pimp / boyfriend in the pictures as well. A little web-sleuthing saved me time and from possibly getting robbed.

It's been a while since I have had any significant amount of free time from my SO of over 40 years, and I have to admit that I'm pretty excited to have 5 full nights and 2 full weekend days to play in the bowl to my hearts content starting this Friday. My plans aren't really firmed up yet, but I'm trying to line up a few regulars as well as maybe a few new Pots to interview during that time. My tentative plans are:

- Meet up with my 20 YO regular at least twice and spend some unrushed quality time with her for a change instead of having to worry so much about my normal curfew.

- Finally reel in a sweet 20 something HSB that I've been flirting with off and on for the past year. We have dated several times and most ended in some exciting car action, but has always ended just short of the FC.

- Try to convince this new Nando1 that I recently met to give it up for the first time ever to an older SD. She is worried about feeling like a prostitute for taking cash for an intimate get together and I've been using my best selling skills to convince her otherwise.

- Try out several newly discovered UTR girls in my area that I just haven't had the time to enjoy recently.

I know the 5 days will fly by fast and furious. Wish me luck and I'll give you all some feedback once my vacation has ended.

Alias.

Discount only applies if you signed up and didn't upgrade. After you upgrade once, the discount is never offered again. I resolve this by contantly creating a new account.

[QUOTE=PARepOman;2685470]I've been off SA for about 3 months but been getting messages from pots so was wondering if anyone knows how SA works as far as when they ask you to come back at a discount?

And does your acct have to be totally inactive before they ask you back bec I've been signing on to see who has been contacting me but unable to read the messages so was just wondering if I wait longer if they will give me the discount rate?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=SugarDaddyX;2685884]Sure enough, I Google her SA handle and only one result comes up: a post about two weeks prior on my local USASG board of a whoremongerer saying he banged her and was willing to share info on her. I'm sure she has dozens of John's after her. No thanks.

[/QUOTE]I probably would have gone ahead and wasted the few moments to PM the monger and ask for her number to confirm 100% it was the same girl. As well as to get her "other" pricing.

Then I could have sent her a copy of the "review" post as a parting gift.

Got to educate these girls that we are watching and the regular working girls need to stay off the SA type sites. IMHO /.

[QUOTE=AliasSM;2686026]
- Try to convince this new Nando1 that I recently met to give it up for the first time ever to an older SD. She is worried about feeling like a prostitute for taking cash for an intimate get together and I've been using my best selling skills to convince her otherwise.[/QUOTE]How about expensive gifts of things she needs or wants but wouldn't buy for herself or gift cards? Maybe that could lessen the "sting" of an exchange? One LT Sb always talked about "help" as a way to avoid feeling used. (cash was always provided, but never mentioned).

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2686709]How about expensive gifts of things she needs or wants but wouldn't buy for herself or gift cards? Maybe that could lessen the "sting" of an exchange? One LT Sb always talked about "help" as a way to avoid feeling used. (cash was always provided, but never mentioned).[/QUOTE]Welcome back to the active Sugaring Alias. This girl does not sound like a Nando 1. They are usually desperate and will take anything they can get. They are beyond caring about feeling used.

What kind of discount are we talking about?

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2686155]Discount only applies if you signed up and didn't upgrade. After you upgrade once, the discount is never offered again. I resolve this by contantly creating a new account.[/QUOTE]

Hey guys, I am a complete newbie in the world of SD / SB thing. Now I finally got a couple POts interested in meeting me. What advice you can give me so I can persuade them to like me and move them from M&G to FC? Some girls want me compensate for the M&G. Should I just bluntly say NO?

Thanks a lot.

[QUOTE=LaoMai;2687566]Hey guys, I am a complete newbie in the world of SD / SB thing. Now I finally got a couple POts interested in meeting me. What advice you can give me so I can persuade them to like me and move them from M&G to FC? Some girls want me compensate for the M&G. Should I just bluntly say NO?

Thanks a lot.[/QUOTE]Be yourself and honest. Stay relaxed. Don't act like you are desperate or creepy. Don't pay anything until the panties hit the floor. If she expects money just to show up to a M&G, then she is a scammer or looking for a platonic relationship. You don't owe them anything, especially when they show up 30 lbs heavier and years older than their pics. This is her chance to prove that she is the person she portrayed herself to be online. Buy them a drink and / or food and that is it. Only give her allowance money if you go to the FC straight from the M&G.