Rants and Raves

[QUOTE=Trojano;3664772]How can someone claim, "they aren't supposed to be here in the first place", when WE implored them to come fill low-wage jobs that nobody else wanted? Can you imagine begging someone to cross the street outside the crosswalk so they can help you load stuff into your truck, then when the truck's loaded, you call a cop over and insist that the despicable "criminal" be ticketed for jaywalking?

As for how our ancestors immigrated, for some of them, "proper immigration" meant being shackled at gunpoint, crammed into boats, and spirited across the Atlantic to provide free labor. All of which was deemed perfectly legal. When considering the immigration issue we face today, technical "legality" is not the relevant measure. Doing what's right is.

The notion that undocumented immigrants are "moochers" is absolutely ridiculous and completely unfounded. Not only do they pay taxes, every credible economic study done has shown that undocumented immigrants are a net POSITIVE to this country as far as economic contribution. Which is why employers haven't been heavily fined for employing them. Behind every secured border crossing are thousands of big, bright, flashing "Help Wanted" signs, and they don't face the interior of the country. They are pointed across the border. They all feature a winking, nodding caricature of Uncle Sam letting viewers know that proper immigration documentation is not actually necessary.

Who among you wouldn't come accept one of those jobs if YOUR family was so poor they ate rock soup for dinner? Would you go home and eat rock soup with your family, lecturing your children on the virtues of respecting the neighboring country's border "law", when that SAME neighboring country is beckoning you to come work?

There was a time in this country when hard working, god fearing, family men were respected and revered. It's shameful how millions of people here have come to hate these folks, especially considering that, in this case, the most relevant difference between "them and us" is the longitude and latitude of where one happened to have been born.

It seems like sometimes people wrap themselves up in the flag so tightly, it cuts off blood supply to the brain, making them susceptible to the ill-informed, factless, hate-infused rhetoric served up by the politically motivated button pushers. We can and should do better.[/QUOTE]Good philosophy you've got there.

Just remember that there's 2 sides to every coin.

There are some illegal aliens who are committing heinous crimes like rape, home invasion, murder. There needs to be a way to filter out those types; we can't just have an OPEN DOOR policy.

I don't agree with a WIDE OPEN door for anyone to just come in.

In Definitely not against immigration though.

[QUOTE=Trojano;3663455]It isn't just Social Security. These folks also pay millions for Workers Comp that they can never file a claim for. As far as paying for schools, many people conveniently ignore the fact that much of that is funded by property taxes. These immigrants don't live in trees and bushes. Every month they give money to their landlord who then forwards some of it to the taxing authority. And finally, anytime you're paid less than someone else for doing the same work because you're undocumented, you're being taxed. Not by the government in that case. But your paycheck is smaller nonetheless.

If someone actually has a legitimate rationale for deporting millions of people, they wouldn't need to ignore facts. The strength of their rationale would win the debate. If they have a weak argument, on the other hand, ignoring facts is their only alternative.[/QUOTE]"These folks also pay millions for Workers Comp".

Companies pay for worker's comp insurance.

[QUOTE=GeorgeGA;3664889]"These folks also pay millions for Workers Comp".
ould
Companies pay for worker's comp insurance.[/QUOTE].

I have driven through Mexico many times. Every time you cross into a different State you are required to show a passport to prove you are there legally. Then when you leave Mexico you pay an exit fee. They are more strict than the US! In this day and age allowing unverified immigrants into the US is folly. There is no reason the US shouldn't be a sovereign nation.

[QUOTE=GeorgeGA;3664889]"These folks also pay millions for Workers Comp".

Companies pay for worker's comp insurance.[/QUOTE]That's a distinction without a difference. For example, renters fund property taxes, even though landlords write the checks. It doesn't matter who writes the checks for employment taxes and Workers Comp, it's the employee's labor that funds it. In return for services rendered, employers pay out X amount of money to compensate a worker. In the case of an employee, some goes to the employee directly, and some gets paid out on BEHALF of the employee. To Social Security, Medicare, Workers Comp, etc. (The employee also writes checks for "their portion" of taxes). Alternatively, an employer can pay a 1099 subcontractor that entire amount, and let them write checks for taxes and Workers Comp themselves. It's the same amount of money earned by the worker in both cases, just a difference in who writes checks.

[QUOTE=Jj3000;3664922]There is no reason the US shouldn't be a sovereign nation.[/QUOTE]Do you know what sovereignty is? Of course the US is sovereign. That's the problem with trying to talk to some of you guys about this shit. You hear this bullshit on some talk radio and you don't fact check and then you repeat it like it means something.

The case could be made that the USA is the most sovereign state in the world because we don't just control our destiny we control the destiny of a majority of the planet.

A2.

[QUOTE=JusTheTip;3662908]I am a feminist myself.[/QUOTE]Your daddy must be proud!

Perhaps I should have specified Domestic sovereignty, I thought that would have been assumed.

[QUOTE=Admin2;3665048]Do you know what sovereignty is? Of course the US is sovereign. That's the problem with trying to talk to some of you guys about this shit. You hear this bullshit on some talk radio and you don't fact check and then you repeat it like it means something.

The case could be made that the USA is the most sovereign state in the world because we don't just control our destiny we control the destiny of a majority of the planet.

A2.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Trojano;3664772]How can someone claim, "they aren't supposed to be here in the first place", when WE implored them to come fill low-wage jobs that nobody else wanted? [/QUOTE]I'm about to adjust my opinion on immigration based on what I've recently read regarding population demographics within the USA. This country badly needs more young workers to pay taxes and support the system. This is a problem worldwide, not just here. I'm sure times will be much different ten years from now. We just ought to cherry pick and bring in the right ones.

Working class hasn't seen a pay raise for forty years when adj for inflation. 20 million illegal workers doing jobs that Americans want, carpenters, plumbers, electricians and other skilled trades that used to lead to a solid mid to upper middle class lifestyle, contributes to that. Home prices any cheaper? No, But the gap between the upper 10% and the bottom 90% has never been wider. Granted, its the people who hire them that is the problem, but legal americans hiring illegal labor isn't new. Once railroad system was built, America ran off the Mexicans and Chinese then. That's how many Chinese ended up in Mexico.

Those here illegally don't exist. No DL, SSN, no prints / dna on file unless they been busted, deported, then snuck back in. Not far to the rest of us. If we commit a crime, they going to find us. Try to pick a medium hgt, medium wgt, brown eyed, black haired Hispanic male out of a line up. And if you don't think some or many crazed muslims have come thru that southern border, you're nuts. I can't believe that after 9/11 all borders weren't secured, overstaying visa made a felony and returning to country after deportation for a crime hasn't led to minimum maximums incarceration.

Don't believe the,'doing jobs americans won't, bullshit. Won't do job for 8 an hour, skilled trades can lead to a good living. Already a program in place for fruit pickers.

Admin is spouting same bullshit he accusses others of spouting. He just listens to diff radio stations, TV channels. You still in Argentina admin? Your papers in order? Your carry your papers on you? As a guest, do you obey that nation's laws? Bet you do. Why? Cause you don't want to get thrown into a jail in Argentina. I've spent time in S. America. I carried my papers with me everywhere. Even kept my receipts after purchases in case the military types carrying automatic weapons stopped me outside the store seeking to enforce VAT.

I know 4 people from foreign lands who've become US citizens. Two from Mexico, two from Brazil. Painters, carpenters, and small business owners / self employed. They followed laws, got Green cards, then citizenship papers. These aren't millionaires all lawyered up. Regular folks. You know why so many don't follow suit? Because you have to apply, so proper I'd, tell where you work, live, identifying marks, family members names and addresses. Then you are in the system and can be found, tracked, deported if you commit a serious misdemeanor or felony. That's why.

I don't understand why if I or any other citizen, native born or naturalized, breaks any motherfucking law on the books we are held fully accountable for our actions while others aren't. Whats up with this selective enforcement of existing laws which don't apply to illegal immigrants or the wealthy elites but apply to all the rest? Who decides which laws to enforce and which ones not to?

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;3665180]Working class hasn't seen a pay raise for forty years when adj for inflation. 20 million illegal workers doing jobs that Americans want, carpenters, plumbers, electricians and other skilled trades that used to lead to a solid mid to upper middle class lifestyle, contributes to that. Home prices any cheaper? No, But the gap between the upper 10% and the bottom 90% has never been wider. Granted, its the people who hire them that is the problem, but legal americans hiring illegal labor isn't new. Once railroad system was built, America ran off the Mexicans and Chinese then. That's how many Chinese ended up in Mexico.

Those here illegally don't exist. No DL, SSN, no prints / dna on file unless they been busted, deported, then snuck back in. Not far to the rest of us. If we commit a crime, they going to find us. Try to pick a medium hgt, medium wgt, brown eyed, black haired Hispanic male out of a line up. And if you don't think some or many crazed muslims have come thru that southern border, you're nuts. I can't believe that after 9/11 all borders weren't secured, overstaying visa made a felony and returning to country after deportation for a crime hasn't led to minimum maximums incarceration.

Don't believe the,'doing jobs americans won't, bullshit. Won't do job for 8 an hour, skilled trades can lead to a good living. Already a program in place for fruit pickers.

Admin is spouting same bullshit he accusses others of spouting. He just listens to diff radio stations, TV channels. You still in Argentina admin? Your papers in order? Your carry your papers on you? As a guest, do you obey that nation's laws? Bet you do. Why? Cause you don't want to get thrown into a jail in Argentina. I've spent time in S. America. I carried my papers with me everywhere. Even kept my receipts after purchases in case the military types carrying automatic weapons stopped me outside the store seeking to enforce VAT.[/QUOTE]Well, in my experience, Mexicans are better workers than Americans, at least where manual trades are concerned (and nothing beats the Vietnamese; I'll hire them all day long).

I mean, nothing beats a lesbian, who are all uncomplaining work machines like no one else (regardless of type of job), and gay men run second best for an office / professional setting.

Wayyyy down on the totem pole are the worst workers of all, which are dumb redneck white boy motherfuckers, these twenty-something guys who've already shot their credit to hell (they always use a wife or girlfriend to finance their truck) and have a criminal record of minor charges. Their women are okay, except after kid one they put on a thousand pounds which they never bother to lose. Give me one quiet Mexican guy for any three to five rednecks, though.

But surround me with a work cloud of lesbians, gay men and foreigners and I'm pretty happy; I'll take the Americans on as investors, happily.

I'll put my PC filter back on now!

O.

[QUOTE=Ozymandias;3665364]Well, in my experience, Mexicans are better workers than Americans, at least where manual trades are concerned (and nothing beats the Vietnamese; I'll hire them all day long).

I mean, nothing beats a lesbian, who are all uncomplaining work machines like no one else (regardless of type of job), and gay men run second best for an office / professional setting.

Wayyyy down on the totem pole are the worst workers of all, which are dumb redneck white boy motherfuckers, these twenty-something guys who've already shot their credit to hell (they always use a wife or girlfriend to finance their truck) and have a criminal record of minor charges. Their women are okay, except after kid one they put on a thousand pounds which they never bother to lose. Give me one quiet Mexican guy for any three to five rednecks, though.

But surround me with a work cloud of lesbians, gay men and foreigners and I'm pretty happy; I'll take the Americans on as investors, happily.

I'll put my PC filter back on now!

O.[/QUOTE]Can't fully disagree with you, and I'm not a racist. However, Mexicans are known to work fast and hard, but they don't always do a great job. Maybe with landscaping, but with construction their homes are made on weak foundations.

Those cheap wooded houses get build so quickly by Mexicans, but they tear down and degrade even faster than they were built.

I know this firsthand from a few contractors in my family and friends of the family.

They are very hard workers though, and they party twice as hard as they work. Known for being hard drinkers as well.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

I really enjoy these political conversations, it enlightens me with new philosophies and perspectives. It also shows everyone's political views / stances on key issues.

More importantly though, what is Donald Trump going to do about North Korea??

Are tougher sanctions really the solution? The UN has been imposing sanctions on the communist regime FOR YEARS; but nothing spectacular has changed.

I don't believe sanctions can force Kim Jong Un to halt nuclear weapon advancement / progress.

Also, North Korea is known for selling weapons and Intel to foreign nations. They will sell to the highest bidder, INCLUDING ISIS and any other radical groups who have the money to spend.

What happens if a nuclear warhead is developed that can strike mainland USA?

Would the North Koreans sell this technology to ISIS, the Russians, or any of our enemies??

Will the communist regime ever be over thrown? Or will it continue to grow and progress, until they are a bigger threat?

Something to think about guys. How do you feel the situation should be handled??

Does Donald Trump have what is takes to dismantle North Korea's nuclear program?

[QUOTE=SgtSoros;3663071]If Pence were POTUS, we would all be wearing chastity belts that's for sure. I'll take Trump over Pence anyday of the week even though I do not think much of either of them.[/QUOTE]I am under the impression that Mike Pence is a very STRICT and STAUNCH CONSERVATIVE.

Basically a good figurehead for the grand old party!

I figure that if Pence becomes POTUS, the GOP will be strengthened and come together in agreement. Right now the GOP is kind of divided, because Trump is NOT your typical conservative.

Mike Pence also seems like he doesn't F around at all.

Social justice warriors would hate him, but who cares?

[QUOTE=Jj3000;3664922].

I have driven through Mexico many times. Every time you cross into a different State you are required to show a passport to prove you are there legally. Then when you leave Mexico you pay an exit fee. They are more strict than the US! In this day and age allowing unverified immigrants into the US is folly. There is no reason the US shouldn't be a sovereign nation.[/QUOTE]Granted, this was 30 years ago, so things may have changed but I spent a lot of time in Tijuana, when I was in the military, not one time did I get asked for I'd going in. Only on my way out. I.

[QUOTE=AaronHamlet;3665180]Working class hasn't seen a pay raise for forty years when adj for inflation. 20 million illegal workers doing jobs that Americans want, carpenters, plumbers, electricians and other skilled trades that used to lead to a solid mid to upper middle class lifestyle, contributes to that. Home prices any cheaper? No, But the gap between the upper 10% and the bottom 90% has never been wider. Granted, its the people who hire them that is the problem, but legal americans hiring illegal labor isn't new. Once railroad system was built, America ran off the Mexicans and Chinese then. That's how many Chinese ended up in Mexico.

Those here illegally don't exist. No DL, SSN, no prints / dna on file unless they been busted, deported, then snuck back in. Not far to the rest of us. If we commit a crime, they going to find us. Try to pick a medium hgt, medium wgt, brown eyed, black haired Hispanic male out of a line up. And if you don't think some or many crazed muslims have come thru that southern border, you're nuts. I can't believe that after 9/11 all borders weren't secured, overstaying visa made a felony and returning to country after deportation for a crime hasn't led to minimum maximums incarceration.

Don't believe the,'doing jobs americans won't, bullshit. Won't do job for 8 an hour, skilled trades can lead to a good living. Already a program in place for fruit pickers.

Admin is spouting same bullshit he accusses others of spouting. He just listens to diff radio stations, TV channels. You still in Argentina admin? Your papers in order? Your carry your papers on you? As a guest, do you obey that nation's laws? Bet you do. Why? Cause you don't want to get thrown into a jail in Argentina. I've spent time in S. America. I carried my papers with me everywhere. Even kept my receipts after purchases in case the military types carrying automatic weapons stopped me outside the store seeking to enforce VAT.[/QUOTE]Look at a historical chart showing this country's embarrassing economic inequality gap and you'll see that it began with Reaganomics. Stagnant wages have resulted from "trickle down" economics that didn't trickle down. We're so smart, though, we blame that on undocumented immigrants while we watch wealthy, elitist politicians enact another round of "trickle down" tax reform to please their wealthy sponsors.

Here's an article to help you understand that there is a SHORTAGE of workers in the skilled trades: [URL]http://fortune.com/2017/09/18/hurricane-maria-hurricane-jose-construction-jobs/[/URL]. We're so smart though, we're going to claim that undocumented immigrants are keeping Americans from taking those jobs.

Here, AGAIN, is the article that A2 posted about crops rotting in the Georgia fields when immigrant labor was scared off: [URL]https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/06/georgias-harsh-immigration-law-costs-millions-in-unharvested-crops/240774/[/URL] I remember when that happened and farmers couldn't even get prison labor to come pick fruits and veggies. We're so smart though, we're going to pretend that didn't happen because it contradicts our narrative.

Hmmm. Makes me wonder: Are we actually smart, or are we really just full of shit?

[QUOTE=Trojano;3665543]Look at a historical chart showing this country's embarrassing economic inequality gap and you'll see that it began with Reaganomics. Stagnant wages have resulted from "trickle down" economics that didn't trickle down. We're so smart, though, we blame that on undocumented immigrants while we watch wealthy, elitist politicians enact another round of "trickle down" tax reform to please their wealthy sponsors.

Here's an article to help you understand that there is a SHORTAGE of workers in the skilled trades: [URL]http://fortune.com/2017/09/18/hurricane-maria-hurricane-jose-construction-jobs/[/URL]. We're so smart though, we're going to claim that undocumented immigrants are keeping Americans from taking those jobs.

Here, AGAIN, is the article that A2 posted about crops rotting in the Georgia fields when immigrant labor was scared off: [URL]https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/06/georgias-harsh-immigration-law-costs-millions-in-unharvested-crops/240774/[/URL] I remember when that happened and farmers couldn't even get prison labor to come pick fruits and veggies. We're so smart though, we're going to pretend that didn't happen because it contradicts our narrative.

Hmmm. Makes me wonder: Are we actually smart, or are we really just full of shit?[/QUOTE]Income inequality began under Nixon, especially post Bretton Woods 2. Exacerbated since, after Obama's 8 years, widest in modern US history. Obama also led the first US econ recovery where all gains+ went to the top 10%, mainlt top 1%.

I've been the construction related industries for over 20 years. Don't need to read an article. I've seen it happen.

Seems like you the one claiming to be smart. I'm done. Not smart enough to compete with you genius'.

Uncle Sam has learned the hard way some times. Saying that, they should get stricter with people who cross the border. Maybe not build a wall but hire a lot of border patrol. If they want in the USA That's fine. Just make all new ones crossing the border go through the proper steps to live here. Take their picture and keep track of where they live here while going through the process. Aaron has some pretty damn good points.

[QUOTE=Zipper34;3665576]Uncle Sam has learned the hard way some times. Saying that, they should get stricter with people who cross the border. Maybe not build a wall but hire a lot of border patrol. If they want in the USA That's fine. Just make all new ones crossing the border go through the proper steps to live here. Take their picture and keep track of where they live here while going through the process. Aaron has some pretty damn good points.[/QUOTE]In the 80's-90's crossing the border cost was 300-500 was easy no to much control, people was able to go two times per year to see family, but then they decided to strengthen surveillance so prices went up, what you do? You can't go back, you bring your family! Some of your kids are born here, now to cross the border is 7. 5 k to 10 k who is wining drug cartels who control human traffic, back then most man came to make a living and send enough to the family hopping they can have how to live worthily and at best be able to go to school and get a career so they don't have to emigrate like he did, but now they all are here and they they are really running out of choices, I know a guy from Guatemala, he was sent back to his country but his family and job was her, he is back!! Took him 2 months to cross three borders.

[QUOTE=ElPerron;3665831]In the 80's-90's crossing the border cost was 300-500 was easy no to much control, people was able to go two times per year to see family, but then they decided to strengthen surveillance so prices went up, what you do? You can't go back, you bring your family! Some of your kids are born here, now to cross the border is 7. 5 k to 10 k who is wining drug cartels who control human traffic, back then most man came to make a living and send enough to the family hopping they can have how to live worthily and at best be able to go to school and get a career so they don't have to emigrate like he did, but now they all are here and they they are really running out of choices, I know a guy from Guatemala, he was sent back to his country but his family and job was her, he is back!! Took him 2 months to cross three borders.[/QUOTE]Now that is persistence! He actually risked his life trying to go through Chiapas, that state is absolutely lawless except for the corrupt Federales who would just as soon shoot an illegal from Guatemala than bring him in. Mexican border patrol is vicious. My son in law's parents came across from Honduras in the late 70's. They made it in time for the Regan era amnesty. I feel bad for anyone trying to get into Mexico these days. It was hard back then, now it's nearly impossible for families to get all the way across their countries through Mexico. They are really tough on illegals there. It's unfortunate, because it's only hard on families trying to flee the terror in their own countries. Now, the criminals, they have it easy they can skip across Mexico like going from Cali to Nevada because they know who to pay off and who to avoid.

[QUOTE=ElPerron;3665831]In the 80's-90's crossing the border cost was 300-500 was easy no to much control, people was able to go two times per year to see family, but then they decided to strengthen surveillance so prices went up, what you do? You can't go back, you bring your family! Some of your kids are born here, now to cross the border is 7. 5 k to 10 k who is wining drug cartels who control human traffic, back then most man came to make a living and send enough to the family hopping they can have how to live worthily and at best be able to go to school and get a career so they don't have to emigrate like he did, but now they all are here and they they are really running out of choices, I know a guy from Guatemala, he was sent back to his country but his family and job was her, he is back!! Took him 2 months to cross three borders.[/QUOTE]Back in 2-3 months? That's exactly why we need that wall. It's like a typical military operation:

1. Secure the perimeter (build the wall).

2. Secure the interior (remove undesirables).

3. Let good people live in peace, pay their taxes, don't get into trouble, and prosper.

Mexico and other countries need to fix their own problems. If they had their shit together like Canada, we wouldn't need a wall.

[QUOTE=TheParrot;3665392]I really enjoy these political conversations, it enlightens me with new philosophies and perspectives. It also shows everyone's political views / stances on key issues.

More importantly though, what is Donald Trump going to do about North Korea??

Are tougher sanctions really the solution? The UN has been imposing sanctions on the communist regime FOR YEARS; but nothing spectacular has changed.

I don't believe sanctions can force Kim Jong Un to halt nuclear weapon advancement / progress.

Also, North Korea is known for selling weapons and Intel to foreign nations. They will sell to the highest bidder, INCLUDING ISIS and any other radical groups who have the money to spend.

What happens if a nuclear warhead is developed that can strike mainland USA?

Would the North Koreans sell this technology to ISIS, the Russians, or any of our enemies??

Will the communist regime ever be over thrown? Or will it continue to grow and progress, until they are a bigger threat?

Something to think about guys. How do you feel the situation should be handled??

Does Donald Trump have what is takes to dismantle North Korea's nuclear program?[/QUOTE]Tough sanctions will put pressure on North Korea, but it won't stop their nuke program because it's their only trump card (excuse the pun). North Korea will continue to do anything to make a buck so we'll see increased evidence of their illicit activities. There is evidence that sanctions are working but North Korea goes to great lengths to hide it. South Korean intelligence knows a ton but they don't make it known publicly and they don't share everything with the US.

Kim knows that if he ever launches a nuke at us, it's game over. The Chinese won't protect him and neither will the Russians, so he'll simply commit suicide when his time comes.

[blue]I'm amazed we agree almost 100%.

Question (not argument) you don't think he's crazy enough to pop it at the end of his time because he wants his country to die with him? I do.

A2[/blue]

[QUOTE=Ozymandias;3665364]Well, in my experience, Mexicans are better workers than Americans, at least where manual trades are concerned (and nothing beats the Vietnamese; I'll hire them all day long).

I mean, nothing beats a lesbian, who are all uncomplaining work machines like no one else (regardless of type of job), and gay men run second best for an office / professional setting.

Wayyyy down on the totem pole are the worst workers of all, which are dumb redneck white boy motherfuckers, these twenty-something guys who've already shot their credit to hell (they always use a wife or girlfriend to finance their truck) and have a criminal record of minor charges. Their women are okay, except after kid one they put on a thousand pounds which they never bother to lose. Give me one quiet Mexican guy for any three to five rednecks, though.

But surround me with a work cloud of lesbians, gay men and foreigners and I'm pretty happy; I'll take the Americans on as investors, happily.

I'll put my PC filter back on now!

O.[/QUOTE]Them redneck white guys are horrible. They'll hold up the line at the liquor store on Friday afternoon so they can cash their weekly checks for a 6% fee, then deplete local supplies of Miller High Life so other folks are forced to fend for themselves. Highly unconscionable!

[blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]

[b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]: [/b] [blue]This report was edited or deleted because it appeared to be a [u]threat made towards other Forum members[/u]. Threatening other members in any way, either veiled or directly, is strictly prohibited and will result the the perpetrator being banned from the forum. Please read the Forum's Posting Guidelines for further information.

Once more and you gotta go.

Not joking, I don't care if it's me or somebody else, you don't get to make death threats. I know you're just some disgruntled old drunk but there are lines.

A2[/blue]

[QUOTE=Niteluvr;3665980]Tough sanctions will put pressure on North Korea, but it won't stop their nuke program because it's their only trump card (excuse the pun). North Korea will continue to do anything to make a buck so we'll see increased evidence of their illicit activities. There is evidence that sanctions are working but North Korea goes to great lengths to hide it. South Korean intelligence knows a ton but they don't make it known publicly and they don't share everything with the US.

Kim knows that if he ever launches a nuke at us, it's game over. The Chinese won't protect him and neither will the Russians, so he'll simply commit suicide when his time comes.

[blue]I'm amazed we agree almost 100%.

Question (not argument) you don't think he's crazy enough to pop it at the end of his time because he wants his country to die with him? I do.

A2[/blue][/QUOTE]My hunch about Kim is that, basically, I doubt he's fully in charge; it's even possible he's a figurehead.

North Korea operates, essentially, as a kind of totalitarian cult; they have always needed a charismatic, even godlike, figurehead. In this case, a glorious family of figureheads, Kims 1, 2, and (now) 3. NK is a complex enough operation for a government (ironic to consider, but keeping a dumpster fire of a nation like NK afloat is probably much more challenging than, say, running the USA, which can actually just buy and lease stuff it needs), so there is NO WAY it's the kind of one-man show it appears to be.

I think Kim's job is to *seem* borderline nuts ("he fed his uncle to a dog! WTF!" ), since that's what keeps the threat of their handful of rocketless nukes effective as a deterrent.

I think the USA, at the intelligence level, knows this as well, which is why no "decapitation" ops have been run against NK. Yes, it's remote and secure, but parachuting a team in to take out Kim is far from impossible; it hasn't been done because removing Kim won't *actually* leave NK rudderless. There's an executive presence either behind him or alongside him.

Note that this is pure conjecture on my part. I have some insider understanding of elements of Asia, but NK isn't included; it's just the gamesman in me looking at the situation: it's simply unfeasible that Kim - doughy, soft, luxury-loving Kim - is the kind of talented strongman who can operate as an authentic, totalitarian dictator; what we have here - I'd wager money on it - is a kind of oligarchy or similar.

So "mad Kim" is less a strategic threat than it is simply a psyop.

O.

[QUOTE=Ozymandias;3667242]My hunch about Kim is that, basically, I doubt he's fully in charge; it's even possible he's a figurehead.

North Korea operates, essentially, as a kind of totalitarian cult; they have always needed a charismatic, even godlike, figurehead. In this case, a glorious family of figureheads, Kims 1, 2, and (now) 3. NK is a complex enough operation for a government (ironic to consider, but keeping a dumpster fire of a nation like NK afloat is probably much more challenging than, say, running the USA, which can actually just buy and lease stuff it needs), so there is NO WAY it's the kind of one-man show it appears to be.

I think Kim's job is to *seem* borderline nuts ("he fed his uncle to a dog! WTF!" ), since that's what keeps the threat of their handful of rocketless nukes effective as a deterrent.

I think the USA, at the intelligence level, knows this as well, which is why no "decapitation" ops have been run against NK. Yes, it's remote and secure, but parachuting a team in to take out Kim is far from impossible; it hasn't been done because removing Kim won't *actually* leave NK rudderless. There's an executive presence either behind him or alongside him.

Note that this is pure conjecture on my part. I have some insider understanding of elements of Asia, but NK isn't included; it's just the gamesman in me looking at the situation: it's simply unfeasible that Kim - doughy, soft, luxury-loving Kim - is the kind of talented strongman who can operate as an authentic, totalitarian dictator; what we have here - I'd wager money on it - is a kind of oligarchy or similar.

So "mad Kim" is less a strategic threat than it is simply a psyop.

O.[/QUOTE]Interesting analysis. I have wondered the same thing myself: how can this fat weenie be the only "strongman" to keep that country in line. An oligarchy of sorts makes sense....and much more difficult to deal with.

[QUOTE=Ozymandias;3667242]My hunch about Kim is that, basically, I doubt he's fully in charge; it's even possible he's a figurehead.

North Korea operates, essentially, as a kind of totalitarian cult; they have always needed a charismatic, even godlike, figurehead. In this case, a glorious family of figureheads, Kims 1, 2, and (now) 3. NK is a complex enough operation for a government (ironic to consider, but keeping a dumpster fire of a nation like NK afloat is probably much more challenging than, say, running the USA, which can actually just buy and lease stuff it needs), so there is NO WAY it's the kind of one-man show it appears to be.

I think Kim's job is to *seem* borderline nuts ("he fed his uncle to a dog! WTF!" ), since that's what keeps the threat of their handful of rocketless nukes effective as a deterrent.

I think the USA, at the intelligence level, knows this as well, which is why no "decapitation" ops have been run against NK. Yes, it's remote and secure, but parachuting a team in to take out Kim is far from impossible; it hasn't been done because removing Kim won't *actually* leave NK rudderless. There's an executive presence either behind him or alongside him.

Note that this is pure conjecture on my part. I have some insider understanding of elements of Asia, but NK isn't included; it's just the gamesman in me looking at the situation: it's simply unfeasible that Kim - doughy, soft, luxury-loving Kim - is the kind of talented strongman who can operate as an authentic, totalitarian dictator; what we have here - I'd wager money on it - is a kind of oligarchy or similar.

So "mad Kim" is less a strategic threat than it is simply a psyop.

O.[/QUOTE]Kim is far from a figurehead, he's a total dictator like his father and grandfather. He rules like most dictators do, with a combination of fierce loyalty, threats, intimidation and harsh punishment. Guys like that can't afford to share power. If they did, someone would take advantage of that (like his uncle) and have to be purged. We don't know if his uncle and cronies were fed to hungry dogs and ripped to shreds, blown apart by an anti-aircraft gunfire or other means; however, we do know that once someone falls out of favor, no sign of their ever having existed will remain (ya can't be a dictator and leave evidence, ya know).

Why not drop a special ops team in and take him out? First, you'd have to find him. Shouldn't be difficult to find the only fat man in the country with the goofy haircut, right? Yet only his small, trusted circle knows where he'll be at any given moment so, by the time any special ops team were to find him, he could have ordered an all-out blitzkrieg offensive on the South. That means thousands of artillery (even 50 yo artillery can be effective), missiles, chemical / biological weapons, spies in the South disrupting C3 operations and a slew of other crazy shit. Plus, he now has nukes, an added bonus. He can hit everywhere in South Korea and hit it hard. Consider that you have approximately 25 million people in the greater Seoul area, most of whom would die instantly. Millions of others would follow once those chemical and bio weapons did their thing. Besides, the US military is notorious for being weak on NBC (nuclear / biological / chemical) training and wouldn't be able to counter it worth a shit.

Back in 1981 when Gen. Wickham was the USFK Commander, I asked him why we don't take out Kim Il Sung. We already knew that the North was doing research on nukes. Wickham said that it would be the perfect time to go in because it would only get worse with time, but Congress would never give the green light. Now we have a bigger mess. If the current Kim used nukes on the South and / or hit Guam / Japan, it would make Chernobyl look like a leaky bicycle tire.

Personally, I think we should economically and physically seal that country shut (starve them out). We're not doing nearly enough in that regard. A lot of these recent "tough" sanctions the UN has imposed have the effect of poking an elephant with a toothpick because our partner countries aren't enforcing them. Paraphrasing Gen. Colin Powell in 1991 (you have to "cut it off and kill it. ".

[QUOTE=Niteluvr;3669093]Personally, I think we should economically and physically seal that country shut (starve them out). We're not doing nearly enough in that regard. A lot of these recent "tough" sanctions the UN has imposed have the effect of poking an elephant with a toothpick because our partner countries aren't enforcing them. Paraphrasing Gen. Colin Powell in 1991 (you have to "cut it off and kill it. ".[/QUOTE]I deleted all the other stuff to save space and because we agree 100% on this.

Question, don't you think doing this would cause him to push that same button?

[QUOTE=Niteluvr;3669093]Kim is far from a figurehead, he's a total dictator like his father and grandfather. He rules like most dictators do, with a combination of fierce loyalty, threats, intimidation and harsh punishment. Guys like that can't afford to share power. If they did, someone would take advantage of that (like his uncle) and have to be purged. We don't know if his uncle and cronies were fed to hungry dogs and ripped to shreds, blown apart by an anti-aircraft gunfire or other means; however, we do know that once someone falls out of favor, no sign of their ever having existed will remain (ya can't be a dictator and leave evidence, ya know).

Why not drop a special ops team in and take him out? First, you'd have to find him. Shouldn't be difficult to find the only fat man in the country with the goofy haircut, right? Yet only his small, trusted circle knows where he'll be at any given moment so, by the time any special ops team were to find him, he could have ordered an all-out blitzkrieg offensive on the South. That means thousands of artillery (even 50 yo artillery can be effective), missiles, chemical / biological weapons, spies in the South disrupting C3 operations and a slew of other crazy shit. Plus, he now has nukes, an added bonus. He can hit everywhere in South Korea and hit it hard. Consider that you have approximately 25 million people in the greater Seoul area, most of whom would die instantly. Millions of others would follow once those chemical and bio weapons did their thing. Besides, the US military is notorious for being weak on NBC (nuclear / biological / chemical) training and wouldn't be able to counter it worth a shit.

Back in 1981 when Gen. Wickham was the USFK Commander, I asked him why we don't take out Kim Il Sung. We already knew that the North was doing research on nukes. Wickham said that it would be the perfect time to go in because it would only get worse with time, but Congress would never give the green light. Now we have a bigger mess. If the current Kim used nukes on the South and / or hit Guam / Japan, it would make Chernobyl look like a leaky bicycle tire.

Personally, I think we should economically and physically seal that country shut (starve them out). We're not doing nearly enough in that regard. A lot of these recent "tough" sanctions the UN has imposed have the effect of poking an elephant with a toothpick because our partner countries aren't enforcing them. Paraphrasing Gen. Colin Powell in 1991 (you have to "cut it off and kill it. ".[/QUOTE]Sealing off NK both economically and physically would be near impossible when you consider North Korea's long border with China. The key is China, if the Chinese wanted rocket-man gone overnight they could probably do it, but then there would be chaos in NK, resulting in a massive influx of North Korean's into China. This massive influx of North Koreans could prove too destabilizing for China, which is the last thing the Chinese leaderships needs or wants at this time. The Chinese also do not want a united Korean peninsula with USA Troops stationed just across their border. To summize, the Chinese fear the U.S. much more than the rocket-man dictator in NK.

Another thing about Kim Jong Un, he is bat shit crazy. If enough pressure is applied, I'm sure he would launch whatever nuclear / hydrogen / biological weapons he has.

Of course he can't win a war, BUT he could do great damage and go out with a BANG.

I don't believe there can be a bloodless victory in dealing with North Korea. People are going to get hurt, period!!

[QUOTE=SgtSoros;3669513]Sealing off NK both economically and physically would be near impossible when you consider North Korea's long border with China. The key is China, if the Chinese wanted rocket-man gone overnight they could probably do it, but then there would be chaos in NK, resulting in a massive influx of North Korean's into China. This massive influx of North Koreans could prove too destabilizing for China, which is the last thing the Chinese leaderships needs or wants at this time. The Chinese also do not want a united Korean peninsula with USA Troops stationed just across their border. To summize, the Chinese fear the U.S. much more than the rocket-man dictator in NK.[/QUOTE]Funny you should say that.

[URL]http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/28/politics/president-donald-trump-china-north-korea-oil/index.html[/URL]

I'm about fed up with this and now have decided to create this thread specifically to teach you guys how to post freaking links correctly. I don't want to see anymore bad links posted for 2018. None! Consider this you guys early New Years present from me to you. Ok guys, let's first start off with a few pre-requistes before moving on to the lesson. Let's start off reciting our A,B,C's. Sing along with me guys.

A-B-C-D-E-F-G-H-I-H-K-ELLO-MENO-P-Q-are-S-T-you-V-W-X-why-Z, now we know our ABC's next I want you to sing with me.

Now, let's count from 1 to 10, guys.

1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10.

Now, let's hold hands and walk to the front of the yellow boys, guys.

Lesson 1:

Escort babylon website links. Look below:

[URL]https://escortbabylon.net/[/URL]#atlanta / reviews /4707988494/4125719.

[URL]https://escortbabylon.net/#!/atlanta/reviews/4707988494/4125719[/URL]

Link 1 above was posted the way most of you guys post it and the link is sparsed. Link 2 was posted the correct way and it was not sparsed. The difference between the 2 links? The 1 link was posted copy and paste right from the website. The second link was posted with [URL]URL open and closed tags[/URL]. You have to put URL open and close tags infront and behind the escort bablyon links in order for them to post correctly. Just like you place Quote open and / Quoute tags when you want to quote someone post to reply to it. Without the URL open and close tags before and after the escort bablyon links, the link will post sparsed and incorrectly. Capish.

Lesson 2.

Backpage Links. Stop using backpage links to post reviews. Those ads only last 1 week usually before they are deleted by the scam artist providers. Just google the chic's number and look for a link outside of the backpage ads. Those other links on other websites last longer than backpage links. Now, that backpage has numbers only on the ad, every link should post correctly when you post it. At first, with the wording some links would post incorrectly, but now they're good.

We complain a lot about simps overpaying for crap service but we rarely educate what we consider worth paying. I'm sure each of you have your own standards but these are mine.

My goal for any provider despite looks or location is 40 qv BBBJ / cfs. The closer I can get to that the better I can enjoy my nut.

60 is the highest I will go for a qv.

HH I aim for 80 or under but will go up to 120 if reviews, looks, rules and location are good.

I have no need for an HR or more.

I have 2 current go tos for 20 BBBJ.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMapalo;3670226]I'm about fed up with this and now have decided to create this thread specifically to teach you guys how to post freaking links correctly. I don't want to see anymore bad links posted for 2018. None! Consider this you guys early New Years present from me to you. Ok guys, let's first start off with a few pre-requistes before moving on to the lesson. Let's start off reciting our A,B,C's. Sing along with me guys.

A-B-C-D-E-F-G-H-I-H-K-ELLO-MENO-P-Q-are-S-T-you-V-W-X-why-Z, now we know our ABC's next I want you to sing with me.

Now, let's count from 1 to 10, guys.

1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10.

Now, let's hold hands and walk to the front of the yellow boys, guys.

Lesson 1:

Escort babylon website links. Look below:

[URL]https://escortbabylon.net/[/URL]#atlanta / reviews /4707988494/4125719.

[URL]https://escortbabylon.net/#!/atlanta/reviews/4707988494/4125719[/URL]

Link 1 above was posted the way most of you guys post it and the link is sparsed. Link 2 was posted the correct way and it was not sparsed. The difference between the 2 links? The 1 link was posted copy and paste right from the website. The second link was posted with [URL]URL open and closed tags[/URL]. You have to put URL open and close tags infront and behind the escort bablyon links in order for them to post correctly. Just like you place Quote open and / Quoute tags when you want to quote someone post to reply to it. Without the URL open and close tags before and after the escort bablyon links, the link will post sparsed and incorrectly. Capish.

Lesson 2.

Backpage Links. Stop using backpage links to post reviews. Those ads only last 1 week usually before they are deleted by the scam artist providers. Just google the chic's number and look for a link outside of the backpage ads. Those other links on other websites last longer than backpage links. Now, that backpage has numbers only on the ad, every link should post correctly when you post it. At first, with the wording some links would post incorrectly, but now they're good.[/QUOTE]URLs also get parsed. When you copy and paste them directly. .

How many decades do you think it will take for american society to change it's views on decriminalization / legalization of prostitution? I think its possible seeing how sex for pleasure purposes is not so taboo anymore. Also the millienial anti slutt shaming campaign makes being a sex worker more legitimate in the eyes of society imo.

[QUOTE=GobMan;3675306]How many decades do you think it will take for american society to change it's views on decriminalization / legalization of prostitution? I think its possible seeing how sex for pleasure purposes is not so taboo anymore. Also the millienial anti slutt shaming campaign makes being a sex worker more legitimate in the eyes of society imo.[/QUOTE]If prostitution was legalized, simp rates would be charged every time.

I think it's best where it is right now.

I can see it now: 500 for the average blonde next door.

[QUOTE=GobMan;3675306]How many decades do you think it will take for american society to change it's views on decriminalization / legalization of prostitution? I think its possible seeing how sex for pleasure purposes is not so taboo anymore. Also the millienial anti slutt shaming campaign makes being a sex worker more legitimate in the eyes of society imo.[/QUOTE]Literally half of Americans don't believe in evolution.

We are a nation of ignorant, primitive mofos; something as progressive as decriminalizing prostitution? Not in our lifetime, probablyear old.

[QUOTE=TheParrot;3675326]If prostitution was legalized, simp rates would be charged every time.

I think it's best where it is right now.

I can see it now: 500 for the average blonde next door.[/QUOTE]What are rates like in other first world countries with legal prostitution? Quick googling shows Holland red light district at 50€ QV which is about 60qv American. And that is highly regulated tourist sector. I’m not convinced outlawing drives down prices.

[QUOTE=JusTheTip;3675777]What are rates like in other first world countries with legal prostitution? Quick googling shows Holland red light district at 50 QV which is about 60qv American. And that is highly regulated tourist sector. Im not convinced outlawing drives down prices.[/QUOTE]Legal stuff usually isn't cheaper, and often is more expensive (compare buying a stereo at Best Buy versus from the back of a van at QT). The difference is safety and consistency of service; when you can sue or otherwise track a business, it shapes up a bit.

So legal prostitution I would expect to be about the same pricewise, maybe with more available tiers, but it would be more regulated, more attentive to customer service issues, and so on.

Girls would have to be licensed, declare income, maybe provide proof of periodic STD testing, etc. And of course those costs would be passed on to the marketplace. And you'd see the usual price pressures in tourist areas and so on; I'm sure in Atlanta you could pay a premium to fuck a blond Buckhead model in Neiman Marcus's "Fuck Department", or head to Walmart to get sucked off by a bargain Rockdale County hood chick.

But this is never, ever happening in the USA.

O.

[QUOTE=Ozymandias;3675948]Legal stuff usually isn't cheaper, and often is more expensive (compare buying a stereo at Best Buy versus from the back of a van at QT). The difference is safety and consistency of service; when you can sue or otherwise track a business, it shapes up a bit.

So legal prostitution I would expect to be about the same pricewise, maybe with more available tiers, but it would be more regulated, more attentive to customer service issues, and so on.

Girls would have to be licensed, declare income, maybe provide proof of periodic STD testing, etc. And of course those costs would be passed on to the marketplace. And you'd see the usual price pressures in tourist areas and so on; I'm sure in Atlanta you could pay a premium to fuck a blond Buckhead model in Neiman Marcus's "Fuck Department", or head to Walmart to get sucked off by a bargain Rockdale County hood chick.

But this is never, ever happening in the USA.

O.[/QUOTE]You can't compare stolen goods with services. My brother lives in CO and legal weed is cheaper and better.