"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=GuyInTheCorner;2656401]... Or maybe with HWG gone we are all willing to fess up to what the real going rate is?
...[/QUOTE]I think it is simply a case of timing. The topic of sugar amount in one's "play" area did not come up until I complained about the high expectation $ in my home town?!

Also HWG is in LA which has been described as the land of eternal pussy! So the going rate is lower across races. I believe Mike7794 is playing in the vicinity these days with similar results!

$250 is top dollar in RVA / VaBEach / Nova corridor.

I play at $150 -200 Max. If you are paying more you do not have enough game, or have plenty of money to not worry about it. You have to be able to walk away and say NO! The girls are spoiled by those who are paying the big allowances. Don't pay up and then complain when you can't find someone at a reasonable allowance.

$100 is not doable here. Hollywood has a certain style that most of us do not have. I can't date -therefore woo -these girls. But I have no problem having one or two who will pleasure me for my price point. If I could take them out to dinner and treats, I'd be overflowing. The younger dudes have it easier. If you are in the 30-40 yr old range the girls can see you as date-able, and therefore will give it up for less.

Hold the line Gents! If you let the price drift up the market will dry up -or just be the private preserve for the uber rich.

Would I love to fuck for hours and ONLY have to pay $100? Sure, who wouldn't? But that is not realistic.

One of the issues with negotiating is you turn it into a transaction, and, over time, the you both treat it that way.

Sure, the SBs may be faking their affection and orgasms, but if they are, they do a much better job than the pros, and there is a pretty good chance she is not kissing you with the same mouth that took three loads of some strange monger's cum earlier in the day.

I ask them what tuition assistance / loan repayment program would get me my desired time together -- I let them name their price and I either agree or decline, but rarely do I negotiate. I want them to be happy, if not thrilled, with what they are getting, and trying to talk them down from $400 to $250 starts things off on the wrong foot in my book.

Occassionally they will insist on asking me what I have to offer. I tell them my standard and let them decide. Again, I don't let them talk me up to what they might have had in mind. Too many POTS in the bowl to play that game.

Also, I rarely compensate them in all cash. My $700 overnight in NYC was happy to take $400 in cash and a $300 spa gift card I won in a charity auction (for which I paid $200). So out of pocket cost was only $600. The Showcase Showdown Prize package approach with a retail value of $_ _ _ carries a lot of weight in terms of making it feel less transactional for them. Charity Auctions are great places for swag for SBs -- restaurants they can never afford, Gift Cards to boutiques...it rarely goes for retail value.

I place the cash in an envelope and put it in a gift bag with a nice candle or other girly treat and they just take it when they leave. Never had one open it and count it all out like a pro does.

Non-cash prizes can be a huge hit. My father in law went in to assisted living. Boxed up his microwave, 42" TV, coffee maker and a few other appliances and shipped them to an SB fresh out of college moving into her first apartment alone. She did not care they were slightly used, she was worried about how much her new place would take to furnish and was strapped with first / last payment. She was thrilled to have all this stuff she needed, but would not be able to afford for 6 months. Cost me less than $100 in UPS charges, got me a 3 hour fuck fest, saved me the trouble of a garage sale.

A few of my friends/clients/vendors are happy to trade their goods and services for what my company offers. Barter = swag for the girl, and it is often a business expense!

FM kind of already pointed it out, but at $500 - $700 for an overnight, you're at the "practical allowance" level ($3 k a month) if you see a baby six. Eight times a month.

Also it depends on your definition of quality. For example, I know lots of attractive mid to late 30 / early 40 year old ladies who would be thrilled with a per date allowance of $400 in the DC and NYC areas. I wouldn't date them, but that doesn't make them unattractive or low quality. A man in his mid to late 60's might prefer a woman in her 30's. They don't even show up on my radar anymore since my search filter is now set to 18 - 25.

Finding a 18-25 year old, spinner who is both attractive, a nice body (8/8/8) and who is fun to be around, I've found to be more difficult. Finding a UTR in those parameters is much easier. In fact Julia. The one who likes her men like her whiskey, but doesn't drink it. Is someone I'd put in the utr semi pro category that is attractive with a nice body, but who is not someone that I would consider a long term SB. If I remember correctly I shared her info with you a while back.

Don't get me wrong though, there are quality non semi pro ladies that can be had at the $150 - $250 range, which is my sweet spot. They make up my current rotation, with the exception of my long term swim instructor who gets an $350 per date. Of course she gets that from me because she has taken herself off the market, and I know some of you lurkers out there would easily give her an allowance at the moderate level ($5 k) a month.

And of course with some luck and skill, there are many ladies who would normally require much higher allowances, but who will date you if you're good looking, nice, and can make a girl laugh.

At the end of the day though, I've found that most ladies in the dc and NYC markets are looking for a practical allowance or higher, which in my book equates to about $500 or $700 per date, depending on how many dates you have a month.

I consider that to be a difficult market as compared to others. So for example, Baltimore, Philly, Newark DE, RVA, are only a few hours from dc and NYC respectively, but the expectations of the pots are significantly more reasonable.

Just my two cents based on my personal experiences.

[QUOTE=ArcherSterling;2655599]I have had no trouble finding quality women in DC, Chicago or NYC willing to meet for $3-400 per date and $5-700 for an overnight fuck fest.

Since I am visiting these cities, they know theris no LT prospect of an allowance, so they probably see me while they fish for allowance providers.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you 100% about the whole negotiating thing. It always leaves a sour taste in my mouth when a discussion about allowance turns into a negotiation. It makes it feel like a transaction. I also feel that way when a pot asks how much time she is expected to spend with me, or if she starts talking about compensation for her time. When the conversation or messages take that turn, I normally ask if they would view spending time with me like a job.

As it relates to the allowance discussion, I normally let it flow naturally and outline what kind of allowance I am willing to provide. I generally try to get them to tell me what they are used to receiving. This is where I can normally tell whether they're full of BS or if its not even worth going through what can do for them. At the end, its a take it or leave it situation. Lots of ladies I never hear from again. Which is why my first m&g is coffee or something similar. When I do hear from a lady again, I always take them to a nice high end restaurant and keep my promises.

As for the amount of time we spend together, I generally don't bother going past the m&g with a pot that asks me that question. Don't get me wrong, I have in the past, but generally found that the time together feels forced. In response to the question though, I usually tell them that they can spend as little or as much time as they want with me. If there is no intimacy, there is no allowance. If there is intimacy, but it feels transactional, I probably won't see her again.

[QUOTE=ArcherSterling;2657146]Would I love to fuck for hours and ONLY have to pay $100? Sure, who wouldn't? But that is not realistic.

One of the issues with negotiating is you turn it into a transaction, and, over time, the you both treat it that way.

Sure, the SBs may be faking their affection and orgasms, but if they are, they do a much better job than the pros, and there is a pretty good chance she is not kissing you with the same mouth that took three loads of some strange monger's cum earlier in the day.

I ask them what tuition assistance / loan repayment program would get me my desired time together -- I let them name their price and I either agree or decline, but rarely do I negotiate. I want them to be happy, if not thrilled, with what they are getting, and trying to talk them down from $400 to $250 starts things off on the wrong foot in my book.

Occassionally they will insist on asking me what I have to offer. I tell them my standard and let them decide. Again, I don't let them talk me up to what they might have had in mind. Too many POTS in the bowl to play that game.

Also, I rarely compensate them in all cash. My $700 overnight in NYC was happy to take $400 in cash and a $300 spa gift card I won in a charity auction (for which I paid $200). So out of pocket cost was only $600. The Showcase Showdown Prize package approach with a retail value of $_ _ _ carries a lot of weight in terms of making it feel less transactional for them. Charity Auctions are great places for swag for SBs -- restaurants they can never afford, Gift Cards to boutiques...it rarely goes for retail value.

I place the cash in an envelope and put it in a gift bag with a nice candle or other girly treat and they just take it when they leave. Never had one open it and count it all out like a pro does.

Non-cash prizes can be a huge hit. My father in law went in to assisted living. Boxed up his microwave, 42" TV, coffee maker and a few other appliances and shipped them to an SB fresh out of college moving into her first apartment alone. She did not care they were slightly used, she was worried about how much her new place would take to furnish and was strapped with first / last payment. She was thrilled to have all this stuff she needed, but would not be able to afford for 6 months. Cost me less than $100 in UPS charges, got me a 3 hour fuck fest, saved me the trouble of a garage sale.

A few of my friends/clients/vendors are happy to trade their goods and services for what my company offers. Barter = swag for the girl, and it is often a business expense![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2657553]I agree with you 100% about the whole negotiating thing. It always leaves a sour taste in my mouth when a discussion about allowance turns into a negotiation. It makes it feel like a transaction. I also feel that way when a pot asks how much time she is expected to spend with me, or if she starts talking about compensation for her time. When the conversation or messages take that turn, I normally ask if they would view spending time with me like a job.

As it relates to the allowance discussion, I normally let it flow naturally and outline what kind of allowance I am willing to provide. I generally try to get them to tell me what they are used to receiving. This is where I can normally tell whether they're full of BS or if its not even worth going through what can do for them. At the end, its a take it or leave it situation. Lots of ladies I never hear from again. Which is why my first m&g is coffee or something similar. When I do hear from a lady again, I always take them to a nice high end restaurant and keep my promises.

As for the amount of time we spend together, I generally don't bother going past the m&g with a pot that asks me that question. Don't get me wrong, I have in the past, but generally found that the time together feels forced. In response to the question though, I usually tell them that they can spend as little or as much time as they want with me. If there is no intimacy, there is no allowance. If there is intimacy, but it feels transactional, I probably won't see her again.[/QUOTE]The "How long?" question is not straightforward. IMHO. For example, a MILF may well be able to snatch a couple of hours in the middle of the day without a problem, but an overnighter might have her wanting enough for a sitter. Someone who has a husband may have similar problems, and so, planning her time is an issue. Those were two examples, but I'm sure there are many other situations where our time expectations are something she needs to know, quite apart from the transactional.

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;2657088]I think it is simply a case of timing. The topic of sugar amount in one's "play" area did not come up until I complained about the high expectation $ in my home town?!

Also HWG is in LA which has been described as the land of eternal pussy! So the going rate is lower across races. I believe Mike7794 is playing in the vicinity these days with similar results![/QUOTE]Yes the $150 is generally what I've had success with, but I am noticing market pressure in the upward direction with new ones I'm talking to.

ArcherSterling those are some creative compensation packages you put together.

[QUOTE=JohnHandCock;2656446]Why don't you guys post links to these girls, especially if they are on SA. Post the link and what they are asking. The Cincinnati, Knoxville and Baltimore forums do this. I find these 3 forums much more informative than this forum. I understand that this forum is the catch all from all over the USA but post what region your hunting in and some actual info that might be helpful. Just my 2 cents worth.[/QUOTE]I'm not from this area, but I always have wondered why posting links to some of these women that might be scammers or just to stay away from doesn't exist here? I have noticed the Cincy area thread does do that.

[URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/blog/[/URL]

This is why we need to stay together in our negotiations. If not then the market will get driven up unless we collectively give resistance to an potentially increasing market.

I'm of the same thought.

I do not negotiate. I ask them if they have thought about an allowance and I either agree to their number or go dark. If they ask me? I give them my number and they can take it or leave it.

Part of the thrill is that these girls are not pro's,. Or are not yet (fully) pro. There is a non-transactional feel to it all that is necessary for me. If I wanted transactions I would get only escorts.

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2657659]ArcherSterling those are some creative compensation packages you put together.[/QUOTE]

Helps them feel less like they are selling themselves if they get valuable "gifts". I also like to tell them that the whole concept of spoiling by defnitiion is receiving something you would never buy for yourself. The young ones really relate to that concept.

Also, if you do need cash undetected, buy something using a debit card, then return it. They can't put the money back in your bank account. Costco offered me a cash refund on a refrigerator! SB funds for my next outing!

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2657691][URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/blog/[/URL]

This is why we need to stay together in our negotiations. If not then the market will get driven up unless we collectively give resistance to an potentially increasing market.[/QUOTE]The blogs and social media are A TWitter with Bull S**t about salt daddies and Ho Daddies. The market will drive prices -it always does. If there are enough guys paying moderate and up that is the way it will go. Be careful when you start thinking that $500 / pop is a good deal. The girls are posting money shots of them lying in a bed of cash. Don't be one of those guys. OTOH, if you are loaded and can afford $50 K / year on up, then you will have your pick of all the girls.

I've followed the blog for SA -kind of interesting. The SBs' views are skewed towards the high levels of allowance and give some insight into their mentality. Of course, they all want $50 K / year, and we want $3000 / year.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2658086]The blogs and social media are A TWitter with Bull S**t about salt daddies and Ho Daddies. The market will drive prices -it always does. If there are enough guys paying moderate and up that is the way it will go. Be careful when you start thinking that $500 / pop is a good deal. The girls are posting money shots of them lying in a bed of cash. Don't be one of those guys. OTOH, if you are loaded and can afford $50 K / year on up, then you will have your pick of all the girls.

I've followed the blog for SA -kind of interesting. The SBs' views are skewed towards the high levels of allowance and give some insight into their mentality. Of course, they all want $50 K / year, and we want $3000 / year.[/QUOTE]

Well said. I haven't met any pussy worth 500 a pop. My record is 400 and did that a couple of time, then I was done.

I can't recall if it was you, but that ****** site was an eye opener as far as the "rinsing" term is used against the guys. Ever since then I've been much more cognizant of getting rinsed by women. I'm analyzing my lineup if I'm blindly getting rinsed. One thing I pride myself on is not getting taken advantage of.

If the question about time is because of other committments, I have no problem when it comes up as long as the committment is valid.

So for example, if I'm trying to set up an afternoon date, and the pot says something like, let's meet, but I have class at 3:30 pm, I'm ok with that.

What I hate though is when a pot at the m&g talks about how much time I'm expecting her to spend with me. In that context, we're not scheduling a date, and so I generally get irritated when the question comes up.

Of course there are exceptions. So for example, if a pot were to say that she only had a few hours here and there because she's married, that to me is completely different (and ok in my book) from a pot saying something like, "how much time do you expect to spend with me when we see each other?

When the question is situational because of other life committments, I'm ok with it. When its generalized and asked at the m&g, it makes me feel like I just called a service and paid my $80 membership fee for the privilege of negotiating with an escort.

[QUOTE=RubberyMan;2657581]The "How long?" question is not straightforward. IMHO. For example, a MILF may well be able to snatch a couple of hours in the middle of the day without a problem, but an overnighter might have her wanting enough for a sitter. Someone who has a husband may have similar problems, and so, planning her time is an issue. Those were two examples, but I'm sure there are many other situations where our time expectations are something she needs to know, quite apart from the transactional.[/QUOTE]

I am in LA. There are some girls who will go for $ - they are few and I havenlt actually done any of them yet. 150 is doable. I think 200 is competitive. I can't speak for HWG but my guess is: (a) he has game, (b) he dedicates time to find girls new to game who meet his specific needs, (c) he is single and can take the girls home so he can in effect say he is dating them and the $ is a bonus. Not many of us can meet all these requirements. Also, at the volume he does, he has had the opportunity to refine his game. Allow me to digress a bit. I have been hobbying < 6 months. My experience with SD sites is <2 months. However, I find that having fucked about 5 women from SD sites and maintaining a POT list of 6-8 - I am already much better at handling them and figuring them out. I have had 2 women really have buyer's remorse. Letting me fuck all their holes for very little money. In each case, I have been able to talk them back in to the FC without promising anything more. MY biggest barrier right now is time. I have little time. I find myself having to choose between M&Gs with hot POTs vs a sure thing FC with an exisitng baby. I have two thicker latina girls who just want to worship my cock without any expectation of sugar. Both are 18. I think if you think of time, money, looks as three variables. You can fix two of them and have to adjust the third until you get some.

[URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/efbe34ad/view?conversation-sent[/URL]

I figured I may as well try SA out since I can no longer find quality at a decent price in other avenues. I have met a few off SA so far. Half I paid nothing to meet, and the other half we met for drinks for the first time. Guys in Richmond should pm me so we can share notes. I have noticed many of the younger and newer/better looking girls are asking for 3 to 5 a date, and seemingly getting it unfortunately.

Anyway, on to this one. She is about 10 years older than claimed. Not ugly but has a very bad attitude. I would guess a former BP girl switched to SA. After meeting to see if we could arrange something, it was clear it would be nothing but a lame transaction with a ok looking asian with a very poor attitude. Never discussed price really because I wasn't that interested after meeting. That is the better thing about SA, you can meet in public to see if you would like them, rather than walking into a dirty hotel room with the door cracked not knowing what you are in for.

"Please take no offense, but I am only interested in meeting Caucasian, between the age of 40 and up. ".

[QUOTE=ILikeHotWomen;2659130][URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/efbe34ad/view?conversation-sent[/URL]

I figured I may as well try SA out since I can no longer find quality at a decent price in other avenues. I have met a few off SA so far. Half I paid nothing to meet, and the other half we met for drinks for the first time. Guys in Richmond should pm me so we can share notes. I have noticed many of the younger and newer/better looking girls are asking for 3 to 5 a date, and seemingly getting it unfortunately.

Anyway, on to this one. She is about 10 years older than claimed. Not ugly but has a very bad attitude. I would guess a former BP girl switched to SA. After meeting to see if we could arrange something, it was clear it would be nothing but a lame transaction with a ok looking asian with a very poor attitude. Never discussed price really because I wasn't that interested after meeting. That is the better thing about SA, you can meet in public to see if you would like them, rather than walking into a dirty hotel room with the door cracked not knowing what you are in for.[/QUOTE]

I think the reason why specific info isn't posted to the rva site is because its kind of become the defacto national board. So for example, I am interested in what the general rates might be in the northwestern us, but couldn't care less about a profile of a girl there, because I would probably never contact her. The rate information would be interesting to the extent it might help me look for certain areas around me that share characteristics of regions where allowance expectations are lower.

The rva board has become a place where general tactics and info is shared. Other local boards have great info on specific profiles that I've found useful from time to time.

I think that's generally why specific info on individual pot profiles is more often found in other local boards, but not here.

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2657679]I'm not from this area, but I always have wondered why posting links to some of these women that might be scammers or just to stay away from doesn't exist here? I have noticed the Cincy area thread does do that.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=VoxDei;2658868]... I have had 2 women really have buyer's remorse. Letting me fuck all their holes for very little money. In each case, I have been able to talk them back in to the FC without promising anything more...[/QUOTE]Who is / was remorseful and why. You or the 2 women?

"talk them back" - does this mean you enjoyed them once for very little money and were able to do it again?!

Inquiring minds want to understand completely and accurately!

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2658533]Well said. I haven't met any pussy worth 500 a pop. My record is 400 and did that a couple of time, then I was done.

I can't recall if it was you, but that ****** site was an eye opener as far as the "rinsing" term is used against the guys. Ever since then I've been much more cognizant of getting rinsed by women. I'm analyzing my lineup if I'm blindly getting rinsed. One thing I pride myself on is not getting taken advantage of.[/QUOTE]If yes what keywords / category do I use to get to the relevant posts? Going through the SB part of tumble relevant to us is proving difficult! I am not interested is reading about their boasts or general SB stuff.

[QUOTE=ILikeHotWomen;2659130][URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/efbe34ad/view?conversation-sent[/URL]

I figured I may as well try SA out since I can no longer find quality at a decent price in other avenues. I have met a few off SA so far. Half I paid nothing to meet, and the other half we met for drinks for the first time. Guys in Richmond should pm me so we can share notes. I have noticed many of the younger and newer/better looking girls are asking for 3 to 5 a date, and seemingly getting it unfortunately.

Anyway, on to this one. She is about 10 years older than claimed. Not ugly but has a very bad attitude. I would guess a former BP girl switched to SA. After meeting to see if we could arrange something, it was clear it would be nothing but a lame transaction with a ok looking asian with a very poor attitude. Never discussed price really because I wasn't that interested after meeting. That is the better thing about SA, you can meet in public to see if you would like them, rather than walking into a dirty hotel room with the door cracked not knowing what you are in for.[/QUOTE]Yeah I saw her about two years ago. Back then she went by Mercydes and drove a Mercedes. She is a total *****. Only after your money. I think she is a pro.

Very bad attitude and super super high maintenance.

Anyone using a service for reverse lookup of phone numbers that they recommend? I was using spokeo but they kept charging me more for what I already paid for. I would like something that reverse searches emails and phone numbers, and names if possible.

[QUOTE=ArcherSterling;2657146]

Also, I rarely compensate them in all cash. My $700 overnight in NYC was happy to take $400 in cash and a $300 spa gift card I won in a charity auction (for which I paid $200). So out of pocket cost was only $600. The Showcase Showdown Prize package approach with a retail value of $_ _ _ carries a lot of weight in terms of making it feel less transactional for them. [/QUOTE]This. Guys need to stop playing the "I pay $100 per date" line and try to find other ways to be creative in compensating your babies.

When you tell a girl you will pay her $100 to fuck her for a couple hours, first thing that comes to her mind is 'shit, I am a hooker'. That doesn't sound too well with non pros and the truly first timer SBs.

I bought a $250 watch for an 18 yr baby for $120 online and it was delivered to her in a nice box with the sticker price of $250. She was thrilled. I have bought $100 giftcards to restaurans, clothing stores, bookstores etc for around $80 or less. I've bought perfurmes, brand name hand bags, etc for half of the retail price and they are more than happy with their gifts. Sometimes I give them cash (in an envelop) and sometimes I buy them gifts.

No matter if your budget is $100, $200, or whatever you should always be able to find ways to keep your out of your pocket cost within you budget. Take her out to a nice dinner and have a drink or two for around $100, then bring her back to your place and fuck her for a few hours than give her a $100 gift to one of her favorite stores when you drop her and she will THANK you.

[QUOTE=ILikeHotWomen;2659130][URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/efbe34ad/view?conversation-sent[/URL]

I figured I may as well try SA out since I can no longer find quality at a decent price in other avenues. I have met a few off SA so far. Half I paid nothing to meet, and the other half we met for drinks for the first time. Guys in Richmond should pm me so we can share notes. I have noticed many of the younger and newer/better looking girls are asking for 3 to 5 a date, and seemingly getting it unfortunately.

Anyway, on to this one. She is about 10 years older than claimed. Not ugly but has a very bad attitude. I would guess a former BP girl switched to SA. After meeting to see if we could arrange something, it was clear it would be nothing but a lame transaction with a ok looking asian with a very poor attitude. Never discussed price really because I wasn't that interested after meeting. That is the better thing about SA, you can meet in public to see if you would like them, rather than walking into a dirty hotel room with the door cracked not knowing what you are in for.[/QUOTE]I met her, unfortunately. Went to her house, fucked her, stayed the night, and got up early in the morning to get to work in the DC area. This was my first encounter on SA and I was looking for Asian cuisine, because it's rare to find on SA.

She was pretty pathetic in bed, shook her fat ass in my face like I would get excited by that, and talked like a cheap porno actress. She lives with a roommate, but tries to hide the fact LOL (what tipped me off was when I heard a toilet flushing somewhere but neither of us was in the bathroom at the time). She is actually quite lonely and a little sad.

[QUOTE=Smokarz_XO;2659730]This. Guys need to stop playing the "I pay $100 per date" line and try to find other ways to be creative in compensating your babies.

When you tell a girl you will pay her $100 to fuck her for a couple hours, first thing that comes to her mind is 'shit, I am a hooker'. That doesn't sound too well with non pros and the truly first timer SBs.

I bought a $250 watch for an 18 yr baby for $120 online and it was delivered to her in a nice box with the sticker price of $250. She was thrilled. I have bought $100 giftcards to restaurans, clothing stores, bookstores etc for around $80 or less. I've bought perfurmes, brand name hand bags, etc for half of the retail price and they are more than happy with their gifts. Sometimes I give them cash (in an envelop) and sometimes I buy them gifts.

No matter if your budget is $100, $200, or whatever you should always be able to find ways to keep your out of your pocket cost within you budget. Take her out to a nice dinner and have a drink or two for around $100, then bring her back to your place and fuck her for a few hours than give her a $100 gift to one of her favorite stores when you drop her and she will THANK you.[/QUOTE]Great wisdom Smokarz. Plus it is time for this Forum to get over the idea that any SB "costing" over $100.00 is overpaying. Everyone has their own sense of what they can afford. If it is a hundred, great. If your budget handles a thousand, God bless.

They were remorseful. Not me. God, 20 yo with athletic body. DATY, BBBJ, DG, CG, RCG, Mish, MSOG. What's to be remorseful? It wasn't too little. Actually was 150 but both had panic attacks. I am worth more than that. Why did I fuck you for that much. Yes. I always said "baby you worth more for sure. I am paying you what I can afford and what I can afford consistently. Take it as a gift not as a measure of your worth. You are worth a lot more to me. Te quiero mucho amor". Etc etc. They came back to FC. One girl told me she only needed gas money so I gave her 50 - for her I offered her 150 to come back. And paid her 100 in arrears. She was sooooo happy. I think she is worshipping my cock now. Don't get me wrong. Plenty of girls want more. Currently I have several hot females who are ready and willing but want more - 200,250, 300 (talked down from 500). One asked me 1000 today. I know I can talk her down to 250 if I wanted to. My best one is 150 with her own apt. She is a bit far. LA traffic sucks. LOL.

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;2659316]Who is / was remorseful and why. You or the 2 women?

"talk them back" - does this mean you enjoyed them once for very little money and were able to do it again?!

Inquiring minds want to understand completely and accurately![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=VoxDei;2660033]They were remorseful. Not me. God, 20 yo with athletic body. DATY, BBBJ, DG, CG, RCG, Mish, MSOG. What's to be remorseful? It wasn't too little. Actually was 150 but both had panic attacks. I am worth more than that. Why did I fuck you for that much. Yes. I always said "baby you worth more for sure. I am paying you what I can afford and what I can afford consistently. Take it as a gift not as a measure of your worth. You are worth a lot more to me. Te quiero mucho amor". Etc etc. They came back to FC. One girl told me she only needed gas money so I gave her 50 - for her I offered her 150 to come back. And paid her 100 in arrears. She was sooooo happy. I think she is worshipping my cock now. Don't get me wrong. Plenty of girls want more. Currently I have several hot females who are ready and willing but want more - 200,250, 300 (talked down from 500). One asked me 1000 today. I know I can talk her down to 250 if I wanted to. My best one is 150 with her own apt. She is a bit far. LA traffic sucks. LOL.[/QUOTE]Well played.

[QUOTE=Rouleur;2659932]Great wisdom Smokarz. Plus it is time for this Forum to get over the idea that any SB "costing" over $100.00 is overpaying. Everyone has their own sense of what they can afford. If it is a hundred, great. If your budget handles a thousand, God bless.[/QUOTE]I agree wholeheartedly. I once got a SB some Victoria Secrets items. They were on sale but she didn't know that. She "estimated" the cost as twice as much as I paid. Even though I have transitioned into more FWB types, I know I will need to buy them some gifts and treat them to things to keep them happy and grateful like any other woman. But I find women believe what they want to believe. And if they believe you are spoiling them, then they return the favor.

And as far as SB and proper payment, it really is whatever you are comfortable with and think the experience is worth. I have helped these girls over a pretty wide range but I don't regret the higher dollar ones because how often am I really going to have a 18-21 year old girl naked in front of me letting me do pretty much whatever I want? That is pretty priceless in my book.

But I don't like a girl who is strictly into the material things. I much rather help out a girl who I think is out there really trying just to get a little extra or make some ends meet. They seem to have lower expectations and also seem to be the type that really enjoy the relationship and the sex. The girls who are more materialistic, in my experience, seem more calculating and view this as a game.

The UTR girl I have seen for something like 6 months has probably come to an end. My spare money was dwindling anyway, but the last time I was with her, I think she helped herself to a little extra money. And I asked her about it, which might have been dumb, but I wanted to know and I really can't think of any other explanation for the missing money. My fault for having some extra money in my wallet which I don't normally. But we had been together like 15 times and I trusted her. She got indignant when I asked her, acted hurt. I went ahead and apologized even though a part of me thinks she has to be guilty. And then about a two weeks later she resurfaced on a dating site.

The only thing that sucks about it is she has been hitting the gym hard, and her body was getting even better, LOL.

But in the meantime, I have entered the FC chamber with 2 FWBs. A 22 year old AA girl, nice body who wanted me to come over for a quickie and then apologized to me for it just being a quickie. She lives at home and has limited amount of time to meet. But she seems like she open to everything sexually. So I am hoping for a longer encounter with her soon.

Then I have gotten with a 30 something MILF who is ok but nothing great. But she lives only and seems into the fucking although she is just ok at it. But have been with her twice and probably continue to see her and see if I can get her to be a little more adventuruous.

The past couple of months I've experimented landing a stripper or two at the clubs. One thing that jumps out is how flakey they are. I'm generalizing by saying "they", but I have not met one yet who wasn't flakey.

If one applies my trusted and true addage and that is "Watch what people do not what they say" the stipppers fail almost every time.

There was one from SA that is an aspiring stripper. It is my 20 year old semi baby. She has the mentality and the flakiness, so she'll fit right in.

The other one I've been working on for a few weeks. She says all the right things, then in practice it changes. Frustrating and lost patience.

Can anyone share what their experiences have been?

I'm in a ranting type of mood this morning. I haven't had any pussy since last Tuesday. I get irritable when I'm not getting it more often than that. My 20 year old, I'll call her, mafia princess flaked on me last night. We were supposed to go out, hit a couple of strip clubs, dinner, and go back to my place for a good FC session. So that left me going to a strip club I frequent and where I'm trying to land this 21 year old who has been flaking. I've her rinse me a little bit, now I'm done with both of them. At this point / age in my life I don't have a lot of patience with flakey young broads.

The night before I was out with my 24 year old first teamer. Had a great time at a comedy club, but we couldn't go to the FC, because earlier in the day she hurt her back at work, and I wasn't going to force the issue. I'm probably lucky she was feeling just well enough to even go out. But even while I've been with this one albiet about 6 weeks it is not FC every time. Almost like every other time. I'm not really liking how this is unfolding. I've already nicely and respectfully let her know we need to have more frequent intimacy, and she assures me we will. She explained her past and why she has not had an overabundance of sex. At least she is aware of it and gave me answers that she will pick up her game for me.

I'm meeting a POT later today, but she lives about 2 hours away, so we picked a city between us to meet, but in the long run I see that as being a once or twice a month deal if it works out.

I know I still have my 31 year old and 22 year old senior in the wings. I could have done something with one of them last night if I knew my 20 yr old mafia girl was going to flake.

Sorry for the rant, but I had to ***** to someone. Bottom line is sometimes I ask myself why do I put up with stupid rude stuff from these kids.

I've got to get to that happy place where I'm getting enough pussy multiple times a week. What gets me is that I'm twice as old as these babies and they can't keep up with me in bed. I'm not even on Viagra or anything like that with the exception of Testosterone. That's it. I figured these days they would be more experienced and have more drive from the experiences, but apparently not.

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2661232]The past couple of months I've experimented landing a stripper or two at the clubs. One thing that jumps out is how flakey they are. I'm generalizing by saying "they", but I have not met one yet who wasn't flakey.

If one applies my trusted and true addage and that is "Watch what people do not what they say" the stipppers fail almost every time.

There was one from SA that is an aspiring stripper. It is my 20 year old semi baby. She has the mentality and the flakiness, so she'll fit right in.

The other one I've been working on for a few weeks. She says all the right things, then in practice it changes. Frustrating and lost patience.

Can anyone share what their experiences have been?[/QUOTE]Not reliable, most think they are there to "rinse" you.

I can't see how they can be a SB. I hope I'm wrong.

I have one whom I met on SA and she is more of an UTR escort.

[QUOTE=FTP1999;2661319]Not reliable, most think they are there to "rinse" you. I can't see how they can be a SB. I hope I'm wrong. I have one whom I met on SA and she is more of an UTR escort.[/QUOTE]Hunting for stripper takeout is one of my favorite hobbies. It's a completely different game than SBs (at least the type of SBs I date, which in itself is a different game than what typically gets discussed at USASG) and I consider it barely even related to sugar babies except in the sense that both hobbies are about fucking young ladies with hot bodies. It's the one time I break my rule of not discussing money (because it's part of the fun in this case).

First I will define what I consider takeout game and what does not qualify:

Four basic scenarios:

1. Meeting a girl outside her place of work who just happens to be a dancer -- an SB website, [URL]match.com[/URL], POF etc. - NOT TAKEOUT GAME.

2. Meeting a stripper at the strip club while she's working, but she seems interested in dating, and not just a transaction. NOT TAKEOUT GAME.

3. Meeting a stripper in the strip club and very soon after the conversation starts, she makes it known she is available for private meeting. NOT TAKEOUT GAME. Because she's escorting without letting me talk her into it, she removed the game aspect.

4. Meeting a stripper at her work who has seems to have no intentions of fucking a customer, yet after some hard work and challenge I'm able to talk her into trying it for a cheap rate. THIS IS IT. In other words flipping a stripper into an escort. Maybe she's done it before (probably in most cases), or maybe she's very new to the business. Or maybe everything just lines up right.

It's not to say 1-3 aren't fun too, but they are not my goal.

As you said, strippers are notoriously flakey. It is their job to bilk their customers for every dollar they can. And, a truly hot one who has been in the business for any length of time is not really a good candidate for an SB because she's already "spoiled" constantly and probably makes a damn good living already, fucking whoever she chooses to as sport, but not needing to do so in order to pay the rent. This is why it's so much fun to strike up a deal with them -- the mere challenge of it. The higher probability of failure is what makes success so rewarding. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of #1-3 from the above list out there to be had. It's just not the same.

I once met Adriana Sage (porn star) at a strip club, she was dancing on a slow night and came and hung out with me between sets. It's not that I didn't want to fuck her (5'8, leggy, perfect ass, even sexier in person than she looks in her films), and yes the thought of making her an offer went through my mind, but the conversation didn't go there, because I knew she would have a high opinion of how much she was worth. I'm sure she probably does already escort on the side, but it's probably for crazy amounts. Part of the fun is when they take an offer that's probably less than what they make on a weekend night. If they accept an amount similar to what you'd pay an SB for a date, it means they are only partially into it for the money and they are going to be genuinely into the sex. Feature dancers do not make good takeout targets.

Hunting for takeout is only fun if it is NOT your primary means of getting laid. Anyone who tries it expecting the type of results you get from SB sites will be sorely (as in blue ball) disappointed, even if you're one hot pork chop with all the game in the world, the #4 are much fewer and farther between than pretty much any other aspect of the hobby. The exception to that might be in some of the rattier strip clubs where girls hook all the time and its their sole purpose for being there.

Last week I had 4 m / g's set up. I added another, one was cancelled by the POT and I cancelled one. Total 3 m / g's. One turned into FC visit, another FC booked this week and other was GPS, but a great date.

I have 3 m / g's with new POTs so far this week, and two separate FC dates. May have found my new SB, but want to see her a few more times before I decide for sure.

No initial messages the first week on SA, sent out 6 this past weekend. Out of the 6 messages I sent, I had 4 replies so far. I have favorited about 60 girls and have mainly been responding to messages that they are sending me. If I had more time right now and actually sending out intro messages I would not be able to get anything else done. Not sure if its just my area (VA border w / TN to Atlanta) or all over right now, but there is a definite shortage of good looking, nice SD's right now.

There has been a lot of talk about "gifts" and what is appropriate or not to these ladies. There isn't a right or wrong answer here. Isn't whatever works for both parties? The guys that are only looking for 1 or 2 dates gift more and the guys like me that are looking for one on-going relationship gift less per date but end up doing more with all the extras in the long run- at least I do.

Cb.

CB. Just be aware, things are really fast and furious early on when you first dive in, because you have the entire pool available. It does start to dry up pretty quickly once you make your way through and find reasonable matches for your needs and desires. So I would advise you to pace yourself and think strategically. Eventually once you get into a rhythm you'll be able to track the new additions and pretty easily identify the good potential matches in that crowd, but I remember a "dip" the last time and seeing the same dip again this time.

[QUOTE=GuyInTheCorner;2662299]CB. Just be aware, things are really fast and furious early on when you first dive in, because you have the entire pool available. It does start to dry up pretty quickly once you make your way through and find reasonable matches for your needs and desires. So I would advise you to pace yourself and think strategically. Eventually once you get into a rhythm you'll be able to track the new additions and pretty easily identify the good potential matches in that crowd, but I remember a "dip" the last time and seeing the same dip again this time.[/QUOTE]Great points. This isn't my first time dipping into SA so I am aware it can dip- it has before. Pacing yourself is really good advise. This time around, I am noticing very good response rates and from talking with these babies, there is a real need for solid SD's. It is definitely a buyers market for me right now! If you get too many irons in the fire, you can't get to all of them and can miss great POTS!

[QUOTE=VoxDei;2660033]They were remorseful. Not me...[/QUOTE]You got a great deal = steal! The women felt ripped off and hence were remorseful! Heee. Heee. Heee.

After the disappointing weekend I had I'm already in a nice recovery mode. Let me explain.

The POT I met from a city two hours away went well. We each drove one hour to meet at a half way point for the both of us. We had a nice reasonably priced dinner and went to the FC at a local hotel. Boom finally had my sex.

Tonight my regular that had the hurt back last Friday came to my house to make it up to me. Now this young woman gets it when it comes to taking care of a daddy. She definitely wants to please me, and she has a really hot little body. She had an A plus performance in bed tonight. Boom sex again two nights in a row. The way it's been going lately that's a boon to me.

Tomorrow I'm meeting my 31 yr old either at lunch or right after work. She's horny and reliable, so I can pretty much count on another FC visit. That should make three.

Wednesday I'm meeting an 18 year old student by day and a new stripper by night. As she put it she can make the same amount of money in 20 hours as opposed to working 3 jobs and 70 hours per week. When she puts it like that who can blame her. Anyway we'll see how that one goes. She's from SA. Actually they almost all are. I don't plan on getting laid necessarily, but if there's a crack in the conversation I'll exploit it.

Thursday I could have a pro from SA if I want it. She's another stripper that's a pro on the side. I don't really go for these types unless I'm so horny I resort to it.

Friday back with my 24 yr old again. Been with her 7 weeks and if she delivers on the sex frequency then she'll turn into an ATF.

So I recovered nicely from last Friday and Saturday, but I've had an unusual run of strippers on the SA site.

[QUOTE=FTP1999;2661319]Not reliable, most think they are there to "rinse" you.

I can't see how they can be a SB. I hope I'm wrong.

I have one whom I met on SA and she is more of an UTR escort.[/QUOTE]I agree they are not reliable. As far as rinsing that's what they do for their work, and I get it, but I don't like it.

I agree again about them ever being a SB. They get spoiled by men throwing money at them for no sex.

And across the board with my experience is they are flaky.