"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

Got home about an hour ago after being out with my 31 yr old writer.

I have come to the conclusion that she has drinking issues and quite possibly could be bipolar. Back in the civy days, and the last time I actually dated an American woman she ended up being a diagnosed bipolar. I did much research on the issue back in 2008. I vowed then I would not be in a serious relationship with an American woman again and I haven't. I went to China and brought a woman back and married her. Tonight was a bit of a flash back. There is this crazy side to her that I would rather not deal with. All I can say is I sense instability. I think it's time to cut her loose.

I listed it on my profile, did not seem to slow down pot traffic at all. I got a couple emails that were derogatory comments, and had one decide after meeting that she could not be the other woman, but most did not care. In my area, at least half of the women I saw were married, so I was "safer". Here is a married one that I had for lunch earlier this week. Smelly I understand what you say about pics, but I cannot resist the temptation to pull out my phone, and as for being recognized, I doubt she even looks at herself closely enough to recognized herself in a pic like this.

As for all the drama drama of late, don't forget we have an ignore function on the listserve. People who post about things they did a decade ago, "ignore". I miss HWG have to go to the LA boards to follow him now.

I also list it on my profile. My thought is that the babies I contact who have a problem with it just won't reply, and those that do reply have ostensibly read it and are ok with it. I have had more than a few babies tell me it is a turn on for them to know that they are seducing a married man, and others who tell me they are specifically looking for married men because they don't want a real life BF and all that he requires. A couple of hours of intense sex per week, then get the fuck out and let me live my life.

Hooray for us!

Scott.

[QUOTE=Beachesnole02;2619278]As for all the drama drama of late, don't forget we have an ignore function on the listserve. People who post about things they did a decade ago, "ignore".[/QUOTE]Best advice in this thread so far. It didn't take hold the first two or three times I mentioned it here though, maybe with someone else bringing it forth, it might catch on, lets cross our fingers. Admin did say to quit discussing drama so the sooner folks ignore that which tempts them to do so, the better off they are. One thing to remember, some of us change details including *when* things occur, just like some folks in the escort pages "dream" about escorts rather than see them. That means if I saw an SB yesterday, I might say it happened years ago. I never give real timelines, ages, or cities and other circumstances. It protects me (somewhat at least) from being identified if she were to read this thread -- I've talked about not sharing too much info here in the past, that's just how I do things -- to each his own.

On the subject of married vs. Not, I'd suspect all SBs (regardless of where they are on the "SB spectrum") are accustomed to the idea by now. Some time ago. Well okay since nobody seems to appreciate anonymous timelines, . Exactly three days ago. I got an e-mail out of the clear blue from an POT that I had lined up during my last "vacation" from the SO, but did not get the chance to actually take to a M&G. I was forced to make up an excuse and postpone it indefinitely, due to the SO returning early from travel. The POT was just checking "to see how I'm doing and say hello". I suspect whatever SD she hooked up with did not work out. She was one I was really looking forward to, because she flat out told me she was not looking for cash for sex transactions, she had been in a relationship with an older married guy who was helping her on multiple levels, and she said she didn't realize until they had broken up that it was the best relationship she had ever had, so the story goes she was looking for something similar. The point is, she had already decided she was not only OK with a married guy, she actually *preferred* someone who was married. Unfortunately for her, I'm not. LOL. Had I met her, I probably would have told her about my GF. Meanwhile just the fact that she sent me the e-mail has moved her to the top of my priority list for my next foray into the bowl. She is actually close enough for a daytrip, however I know she's not looking for the "let's go to a hotel during lunch and fuck" type of arrangement, so I'll just have to wait and hope she's available when the timing is right.

I've been with my SB for several months now. To my knowledge she has a great relationship with her father and she's doesn't do the "daddy" sex talk stuff. I've seen it with other SB's in a various degrees.

It just dawned on me that they're are times she's talking to me and she speaks in a little girls voice. I normally talk to her pretty calmly in most cases. I never thought anything of it.

Anybody else seen this or have insight?

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2619713]I've been with my SB for several months now. To my knowledge she has a great relationship with her father and she's doesn't do the "daddy" sex talk stuff. I've seen it with other SB's in a various degrees.

It just dawned on me that they're are times she's talking to me and she speaks in a little girls voice. I normally talk to her pretty calmly in most cases. I never thought anything of it.

Anybody else seen this or have insight?[/QUOTE]I've gotten the little girl voice / behavior a lot, but actually being called daddy during sex has been rarer and only when I egged it on myself. Some girls are more fantasy-oriented or escapism-minded, will experiment with things they've seen done or said watching porn. The little girl voice I think has a lot of root causes but is fundamentally based on the fact that she was a cute kid, a pretty teenager, and a sexy adult and she's just found a voice that helps her get her way during tough times or a behavior that works to her advantage. Partially due to a good relationship with her actual dad and spoiling, maybe? But I've also seen it from girls who described their father as absent growing up so I'm not sure that's always the reason.

Also I was surprised when a buddy of mine told me he is turned off if a girl calls him daddy... so some of them might have tried it, gotten a negative reaction, and play it safe from there on.

I've always been impressed by the guys who have the guts to request or take photos of their babies and post them publicly, and even more impressed when the photos are of nudes and or action shots.

For those brothers who have taken pics of their babies, do you normally ask? Does it generate a larger allowance request? I'm big into quid pro quo, so have you had any babies asked for the same in return (e. G. Can I snap a pic of you), and if so, how do you handle that question after you just took a picture of her?

In any case, well done Beachesnole, and thanks for sharing. HWG was always good about sharing pics. Based on the picture, lunch looks like it was quite tasty!

As for going to a different board to follow him, well, sadly I'm too lazy for that. This is really the only board I follow on this site anymore. Based on my experience, its probably the best board for hookers who think they aren't hookers. Not exactly sure how this became the defacto national board, but when you click on the screen names of the folks who had been regular contributors, its clear that a majority of brothers play in states ranging from Massachusetts to Florida, Illinois, Ohio, and a countless number of other states. It was nice to have HWG's California experiences in the Richmond board because it added a distinctly West Coast flavor.

Why bother going to any other board when all the tactics, tips, and war stories from all fifty states could be found in one location? Hopefully in his stead, some other brothers from the West coast will start posting, assuming of course he decides not to come back.

[QUOTE=Beachesnole02;2619278]I listed it on my profile, did not seem to slow down pot traffic at all. I got a couple emails that were derogatory comments, and had one decide after meeting that she could not be the other woman, but most did not care. In my area, at least half of the women I saw were married, so I was "safer". Here is a married one that I had for lunch earlier this week. Smelly I understand what you say about pics, but I cannot resist the temptation to pull out my phone, and as for being recognized, I doubt she even looks at herself closely enough to recognized herself in a pic like this.

As for all the drama drama of late, don't forget we have an ignore function on the listserve. People who post about things they did a decade ago, "ignore". I miss HWG have to go to the LA boards to follow him now.[/QUOTE]

Agree with you and Beachesnoles about making the switch and just putting it all out there. Not sure if the bowl is changing, if there are just that many more pots, or what, but when I first started out and listed it more than a few pots would just block me after sending me a nasty message.

This past go round with my new profile, I've found that so many more pots are 100% ok with it, seek it out, or have a fetish about it. One of the babies I picked up in this round has been begging to come home because she wants to do it in the bed that I share with my SO. (I'll save the odd fetish requests I've gotten this go around for another post).

My thoughts are that the pool of pots is expanding, and the pots that are ok with a married guy, or who seek them out, are much more open minded than the pots who have just signed up for the site in hopes of bagging a rich boyfriend that they are trying to turn into a husband. At least in the region I play in, I've noticed plenty of new profiles talking about "I'm not looking for love, but wouldn't be opposed if it happened" At least for me, I avoid those profiles no matter how hot, and no matter the expectation amount.

Of course the best is when you have a baby who only ostensibly reads your profile, and entirely misses the fact that you're married. I took one baby to the FC, had a multi hour, multi pop session, and then when I told her I had to bounce afterwards to get home. She asked why I was in such a rush. I told her that I had to be back to make sure the SO didn't flip her lid. The baby had this bewildered look on her face and asked: "you're married?" I responded that she should probably have read my profile better. She ended up getting dressed and was out the door, leaving when I left. She was so confused that she forgot to take her allowance, or alternatively, may have felt some sort of moral obligation to not take it?

In any event, yes, I agree wholeheartedly with your last sentiment: Hooray for us!

[QUOTE=FScott;2619386]I also list it on my profile. My thought is that the babies I contact who have a problem with it just won't reply, and those that do reply have ostensibly read it and are ok with it. I have had more than a few babies tell me it is a turn on for them to know that they are seducing a married man, and others who tell me they are specifically looking for married men because they don't want a real life BF and all that he requires. A couple of hours of intense sex per week, then get the fuck out and let me live my life.

Hooray for us!

Scott.[/QUOTE]

Glad to hear that you're having luck and that things are panning out for you. The expectation information for the Baltimore area is also helpful and right in line (5 - $$) with what I've been seeing for that area (I play in the mid-atlantic, in a few different cities and regions).

As for wishing things were cheaper, well, there has been lots of discussion on the board about how to calculate return on allowance. Based on my read of other brothers, some look at it based on a cost per pop, others look at it based on a cost per hour, etc. Etc. If one were to compare playing in the bowl to the costs incurred in comparison to other aspects of the hobby, then depending on how you're playing, being in the bowl could be a huge value.

As an aside, if you're able to find a baby that can host, that in itself is huge. Even if you can't though, and if you're getting hotels, depending on the rewards program you're in, and the cash back structure of the credit card you're using to book the room, at least now its you, rather than someone else, who is getting those benefits.

[QUOTE=NiceGuy804;2617825]I have been on SA for a couple of months now. Met a nice lady a few times a few months ago (bartender by trade) and had a m&g with a potential SB yesterday.

The lady I met with a few times (bartender) was a cute blonde bartender who I believe has relocated to Baltimore.

Met with a LOVELY 35 year old Russian lady from SA yesterday (nice, quiet, dark Chinese restaurant). What a delightful lunch companion. Looking at the 200 range per dream I think.

Meeting with a MILF potential tomorrow at lunch. Seems nice. We'll see. Like that she's married.

Do I wish SA was a little cheaper? HELL yes. Do I feel like I'm meeting a little better quality of girl a little more safely? HELL yes![/QUOTE]

One of FM's prior posts (about how the tough part of the bowl is finding high quality pots at BP expectation amounts), and NiceGuy's post got me to thinking. This go around, I've had a lot of luck finding high quality babies who have much lower expectations. I couldn't figure out, but it might be because when setting up my profile, I have significantly reduced my "net worth and annual salary amounts.

Previously I had listed my actual net worth and salary. I remember reading a post a few months back about how one brother set up a profile with much lower figures to give him a better starting point from an allowance perspective.

This go around, when setting up my "mercenary" profile, I dropped the numbers and put it all out there because I have my swim instructor and so it was more of just a "testing the waters" kind of thing. I also incorporated the advice from the brother about listing lower figures for net worth and salary.

In hindsight, when viewing things from the perspective of a college aged pot, even listing a net worth that is half my actual must seem pretty nice to them, compared to college aged boys who are drinking kegs of Natty light and eating ramen noodles in the dorm.

In any case. Thanks to the OP who posted about his tactic for establishing a better starting point. I think I may have figured out why expectations this go around are so much different than the last two rounds.

As an aside, a few posts back, I had been waffling about whether to go with a "tear down and rebuild" strategy for my profile, or renewing my existing account. There was a thread on the subject a few months back with different folks advocating for one or the other, based on different reasons. I am now firmly in the "tear down and rebuild" strategy. Mainly because it allows me to "groundhog day" pots. Just like the move with Bill Murray, I am now able to reach out again to pots that were not receptive to my prior profile, or restart conversations that died using info collected in the last round, and knowing not to make the same mistakes again (e. G. This pot will go dark if you try to reschedule the first M&G with her, etc.) It is also another huge benefit of not sharing face pics until the M&G. This way, a pot from a prior round that you were trying to get to the FC, but didn't make it to the M&G with has no idea that you were chatting her up a few weeks ago.

Just my two cents though, I'm sure there are a variety of differing opinions out there.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2619877]I've always been impressed by the guys who have the guts to request or take photos of their babies and post them publicly, and even more impressed when the photos are of nudes and or action shots.

For those brothers who have taken pics of their babies, do you normally ask? Does it generate a larger allowance request? I'm big into quid pro quo, so have you had any babies asked for the same in return (e. G. Can I snap a pic of you), and if so, how do you handle that question after you just took a picture of her?[/QUOTE]I have nudes of pretty much every woman I've slept with. I usually don't ask for them until we've had sex at least a couple times so that there is some trust built. And I always promise that no one but me will see them, which is something I take seriously.

[QUOTE=DogSun;2620293]I have nudes of pretty much every woman I've slept with. I usually don't ask for them until we've had sex at least a couple times so that there is some trust built. And I always promise that no one but me will see them, which is something I take seriously.[/QUOTE]Exactly this. Unless she has given permission to share, they should not be shared. Not too far back in the thread, the legalities of sharing explicit pictures of third parties without their permission was briefly discussed. I will refrain from discussing what the law actually says about this in each state and how fast those laws are changing recently (due mostly because every time I bring legal facts to the table, someone starts asking whether I'm a lawyer or not), but I would encourage anyone to research recent changes that have come about (due primarily to revenge porn sites) regarding sharing sexually explicit photos of a third party without permission. The trend is not pretty.

That's just at a legal level. At a purely moral level, it's a shitty thing to do to betray someone's trust by posting pics of them they expected to be private. I do unto others, so if someone sends me a nude pic (as many girls do, even unrequested), I respect her privacy unless she specifically gives me permission to share it publicly over the Internet (I typically would not ask for that). I have had more than one case where someone posted (clothed) photos of me on their Facebook page, I asked them to remove and they did so. So, at least to date my do unto others strategy has worked well. That's not to say I haven't shared nude pics of SBs with friends I trust -- and I wouldn't mind if a girl did same with photos of me. I'm not a religious guy but I do believe in do unto others.

[QUOTE=DogSun;2620293]I have nudes of pretty much every woman I've slept with. I usually don't ask for them until we've had sex at least a couple times so that there is some trust built. And I always promise that no one but me will see them, which is something I take seriously.[/QUOTE]At least the ones I've seen in the last couple of years. It usually starts out with shots that don't show their face, but after a while it progresses from there. I have full-on blow job and fucking videos. It actually surprises me how little these younger babies seem to care about videos being made of them.

I like it though. A lot!

I like P.S. Shots -no faces or obvious identifying features on either side of the scrotum. All my girls are happy to "pose" -impaled as it were.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2620378]I like P.S. Shots -no faces or obvious identifying features on either side of the scrotum. All my girls are happy to "pose" -impaled as it were.[/QUOTE]I'm guessing a lot, if not most girls might not mind the type you're talking about being shared at all -- if they are okay with it and express that, then no problem. I've been asked to send pics of my cock, etc. Before, and if someone said "I want to send to my friend, okay with you" I'd probably say yeah no problem. But, if I saw the pic of my cock uploaded to some site that I didn't specifically give permission for, I'd feel backstabbed for her not asking me first.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2620419]I'm guessing a lot, if not most girls might not mind the type you're talking about being shared at all -- if they are okay with it and express that, then no problem. I've been asked to send pics of my cock, etc. Before, and if someone said "I want to send to my friend, okay with you" I'd probably say yeah no problem. But, if I saw the pic of my cock uploaded to some site that I didn't specifically give permission for, I'd feel backstabbed for her not asking me first.[/QUOTE]I'm not into sharing pics of my cock -particularly inside of an SB's pussy. They are just a remembrance of things past -and present.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2620486]I'm not into sharing pics of my cock -particularly inside of an SB's pussy. They are just a remembrance of things past -and present.[/QUOTE]I didn't really want to send her a pic of my cock either, to be honest, but it was a quid pro quo situation where she was sending me similar and I guess we got caught up in the newness of it all. I later thought about what a bad idea it is, not only because she now has a copy of this and if she turned out to be a wack job it might show up in places that I don't want it to (like revenge porn sites where she could tie it to my actual identity), but what if someone hacks my phone and then uploads the contents somewhere (perhaps even along with my identity) and the next thing you know I've got gay dudes, creepers, fat girls, etc. Looking at my wang.

I have not done this in a while and honestly I can go from now to the end without ever sending anyone another pic of my cock and I think I will feel better about it. Fun at the time but I guess I'll call it a case of BTDT from here.

[QUOTE=DogSun;2620293]I have nudes of pretty much every woman I've slept with. I usually don't ask for them until we've had sex at least a couple times so that there is some trust built. And I always promise that no one but me will see them, which is something I take seriously.[/QUOTE]When I read the posts about pics I'm always telling myself that I need to take pics. I always seem to forget. I was with my 22 yr old recent honors grad model (the one who I don't know what type of model she is). I could have gotten some great pics, but I never think about it.

The first was with a recent grad who went to the same university as the model baby I have. This was a first time FC setup, so the plan was to meet her at 12 noon and my model baby at 6 pm. I thought since I'm driving a long way that I'd kill two birds with one stone. It went well, but I don't think I'll put her in the lineup.

Met my 22 yr old model baby at 6 pm. Outstanding time, but realistically I don't know how long this can last on a regular basis by the sheer distance alone. Over time I think this turns out to be a one or two times per month meeting, which might be fine because I have a FC meeting today with another hot 23 yr old who is local to me.

Now this 23 yr old I'm meeting later today. Hot and slender just like my model baby. Plus she is local, so if she preforms well today, then she could make up for the lack of time seeing the model baby. It's not possible to have sex one or two times per month.

One thing I have to remember is to take pics. Probably won't ask today since it is the first FC meeting.

So if I could have these two in my rotation I should be good, but the problem is I've spread myself out kind of thin. I have still to meet the 19 yr old readhead and the 29 year old latino. If I have my model and my 23 yr old as keepers then I probably won't renew my account.

Ok, newbie in (British) town here. Following guidance from esteemed brothers in arms from across the pond, I have refused to pay those sweeties who ask for money just to turn up for a coffee. I have also been stood up a couple of times. I have, nevertheless, successfully persuaded a few lovelies to join me for a cordial coffee and a nice slice of cake. Now, a couple.

Of these have shown potential for further development and subsequent meetings have been mooted. However, both targets, although expressing a willingness to adjourn to a place of.

Privacy in due course, have said they would like to wait a few weeks while we "get to know each other". In the meantime they are happy to meet for meals, drinks or theatre visits, but are asking for payment on top of these expenses. I demurred, only to be informed that this was standard practice. Is it? Do you pay POT SBs for their attendance at "get to know you" meetings over a period of time with only a promise of joys to come?

[QUOTE=Pukkaghee;2621562]Ok, newbie in (British) town here. Following guidance from esteemed brothers in arms from across the pond, I have refused to pay those sweeties who ask for money just to turn up for a coffee. I have also been stood up a couple of times. I have, nevertheless, successfully persuaded a few lovelies to join me for a cordial coffee and a nice slice of cake. Now, a couple.

Of these have shown potential for further development and subsequent meetings have been mooted. However, both targets, although expressing a willingness to adjourn to a place of.

Privacy in due course, have said they would like to wait a few weeks while we "get to know each other". In the meantime they are happy to meet for meals, drinks or theatre visits, but are asking for payment on top of these expenses. I demurred, only to be informed that this was standard practice. Is it? Do you pay POT SBs for their attendance at "get to know you" meetings over a period of time with only a promise of joys to come?[/QUOTE]The golden rule is, "No sugar until the panties hit the floor". I'm more than happy to cover the expenses of "get to know each other" dates, but to add financial compensation to my date on top of the expenses of platonic dates is a terrible path to go down. Most girls who are trying to go out on paid platonic dates will vanish as soon as you start asking for more physical dates. Tell such prospects that you are don't give sugar until you get sugar because there are too many scammer girls out there.

Wonder if the brothers in Richmond are annoyed that their board is no longer local, but national, and now appears to be going international? Frankly, I think Richmond should be proud.

As for the golden rule. Fotoguy is spot on. Now I can't tell you how it was done 10 or 15 years ago, and I won't bore you with how I played the game when I was IRL / civvy dating since every male should have some idea of how that should go, but based on my more recent experience in playing in the bowl, even if the pots don't evaporate (as fotoguy pointed out many will), the allowance provided after a "get to know you" dinner date becomes the floor for any future FC date. At least where I play, very few pots will turn into babies and make it to the FC for an allowance that is less than what they'd get for a "get to know you" date.

In my opinion, another problem with giving in here is that depending on the circumstances, it has the potential to give off the appearance of weakness. And also comes with the potential of landing a SD into the friend zone. I've been there way to often in my youth, and have no interest in going back.

Of course with every rule comes exceptions. So for example, if every SD in your region is providing an allowance for an M&G date, then it may be the norm. Based on HWG's prior posts, I can tell you that there were some regional differences between how players play in the West Coast bowl vs. The East Coast bowl here in the US. Your the first post I've read from a Brit RE: sugar dating, and so you may want to check local boards for local custom. Of course if brothers in your region are paying for first dates, then you may want to start referring your UK counterparts to start reading the US boards for tips.

[QUOTE=Pukkaghee;2621562]Ok, newbie in (British) town here. Following guidance from esteemed brothers in arms from across the pond, I have refused to pay those sweeties who ask for money just to turn up for a coffee. I have also been stood up a couple of times. I have, nevertheless, successfully persuaded a few lovelies to join me for a cordial coffee and a nice slice of cake. Now, a couple.

Of these have shown potential for further development and subsequent meetings have been mooted. However, both targets, although expressing a willingness to adjourn to a place of.

Privacy in due course, have said they would like to wait a few weeks while we "get to know each other". In the meantime they are happy to meet for meals, drinks or theatre visits, but are asking for payment on top of these expenses. I demurred, only to be informed that this was standard practice. Is it? Do you pay POT SBs for their attendance at "get to know you" meetings over a period of time with only a promise of joys to come?[/QUOTE]

Did a M&G with one of the hottest pots that I've M&G'ed with. The interesting thing about the M&G was that it would not have happened had it not been for my persistence. Apparently, she had been getting so bombarded with messages that the only way she could keep up with them was by responding to those that were showing up on the screen at any given time when she was opening up the site from her mobile.

Guess the squeaky wheel got the grease this time. Plans for the FC are on for early next week.

Met with the 23 yr old yesterday afternoon and evening while I hosted. Had a good time. I like her demeanor for her age; Polite and easy to work with. Willing to please. I love that. She's in the rotation for sure. I'm planning on seeing her once per week. I know it must look like I say it a lot, but this one is hot too. Long blond hair 5'3" about 100 lbs very pretty.

Early in the day the 19 year old red head contacted me and wanted to meet at 9 pm. She's and hour and a half drive from me. I told her I'd text later in the day if I would be able to make it. I didn't bank on the 23 yr old staying with me at my home for as long as she did, but she and I were comfortable just hanging out. I then forgot to text the redhead, but she texted me at about 8:45 and said "I guess you're not coming". I texted back, to apologize, later after dropping off my new baby with no response. I don't know if I lost that one or not, but I'm not stressing over it, after being with this new one. We'll see.

I'm going to see my new one again today. I have to think of a name to identify her.

[QUOTE=Pukkaghee;2621562]Ok, newbie in (British) town here. Following guidance from esteemed brothers in arms from across the pond, I have refused to pay those sweeties who ask for money just to turn up for a coffee. I have also been stood up a couple of times. I have, nevertheless, successfully persuaded a few lovelies to join me for a cordial coffee and a nice slice of cake. Now, a couple.

Of these have shown potential for further development and subsequent meetings have been mooted. However, both targets, although expressing a willingness to adjourn to a place of.

Privacy in due course, have said they would like to wait a few weeks while we "get to know each other". In the meantime they are happy to meet for meals, drinks or theatre visits, but are asking for payment on top of these expenses. I demurred, only to be informed that this was standard practice. Is it? Do you pay POT SBs for their attendance at "get to know you" meetings over a period of time with only a promise of joys to come?[/QUOTE]

I never pay for a M & G. That is a discovery time for the man and woman. One has to assess if there is chemistry just like the other does. If there is enough chemistry to where both feel they are attracted to each other then an arrangement can be discussed. If a woman needs more time I give it to her by meeting again if necessary, but I never pay her except for the meal or coffee. Most of the time they don't say anything about being paid while I'm with them, but normally while we're initially emailing each other, but that is relatively rare. If a baby doesn't like it then say have a nice day and good luck and move on.

Personally I'm not lonely enough to have a pay someone for merely a date.

I think I forgot to mention that I was supposed to have a Meet with a 33 yr old today for lunch, but yesterday she text me a body shot of her in lingerie. She was quite hefty, so I text her this morning and told her that no offense but I like my women petite would not be able to meet her.

[QUOTE=Pukkaghee;2621562] In the meantime they are happy to meet for meals, drinks or theatre visits, but are asking for payment on top of these expenses. I demurred, only to be informed that this was standard practice. Is it? Do you pay POT SBs for their attendance at "get to know you" meetings over a period of time with only a promise of joys to come?[/QUOTE]Perhaps some of this "way of thinking" comes from the popularity of the website What's Your Price (WYP). It is a terrible site from the guy's perspective, all slanted against you. It is however sponsored and run by the same dude who created SA. So if a girl signs up for SA, no doubt she gets bombarded by offers from WYP. No cost for the girl to sign up for WYP, so little barriers for entry and they promise NO SEX dates for pay! What could be easier for a girl?

So I have run into a few that wanted PMT for platonic M&G dates, and on inquiry found that they were active on WYP site. Even some bbw girls told me they get $50 for a dinner date. Not from me.

But the point is that SB dating is different from WYP dating and if the girls want to confuse the two they need to get an education. Any girl looking for $ for the M&G is a "pass" and not worth the time. Move on. I try to make sure expectations are set before leaving for a date. Girl knows she is investing her time in a M&G, for future rewards. After all this is dating and no guarantees: need to assess mutual interests / styles.

So while the British style might be a bit different, one needs to be a bit more firm and certain in one's approach. She is looking for weakness to exploit. Use the good parts of your style to remain engaging, all while adopting a firm stance. I had a recent POT tell me at a M&G that she wanted 350 for the date to continue. I politely told her that there was no way and we were so far off, there wasn't any point in continuing any discussions and I would drive her home. She relented to 250; no. Then 200; no. Eventually melted to 150; no. With such epic caving (now under 50% of initial offer), I decided to let this play out and see how far it could go. While being polite but firm. Amazing what happens when one is willing to walk away and doesn't waver. When she got to 100, I said, enough! " 80, take it or leave it. " In the end she took it.

So as others have suggested- suss out those who are prats and pillocks up front and then use the charm and firmness to work the remainder. When in Rome.

[QUOTE=Pukkaghee;2621562]Ok, newbie in (British) town here. Following guidance from esteemed brothers in arms from across the pond, I have refused to pay those sweeties who ask for money just to turn up for a coffee. I have also been stood up a couple of times. I have, nevertheless, successfully persuaded a few lovelies to join me for a cordial coffee and a nice slice of cake. Now, a couple.

Of these have shown potential for further development and subsequent meetings have been mooted. However, both targets, although expressing a willingness to adjourn to a place of.

Privacy in due course, have said they would like to wait a few weeks while we "get to know each other". In the meantime they are happy to meet for meals, drinks or theatre visits, but are asking for payment on top of these expenses. I demurred, only to be informed that this was standard practice. Is it? Do you pay POT SBs for their attendance at "get to know you" meetings over a period of time with only a promise of joys to come?[/QUOTE]One item you didn't mention in your post is if you're British looking to dabble in the US on the short or long-term, or if you're playing in the UK? If in the UK, I'd say do what Mike Brewer does on the famed car show when he deals in cars -- he never caves in on his selling (or buying) price to a female. Every episode involving a woman is a showcase of how female negotiating skills are simply not up to par with their male counterparts -- they always lose to him. LOL.

But seriously -- while I can't tell you anything about sugar babies in the UK I would suggest checking out the Highlights and FAQ index. [URL]http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?15100-Sugarbaby-Thread-Highlights-Index-and-FAQ[/URL].

The question you've brought up has come up frequently in the past and discussed quite a bit, and the user who took the time to index all that and create most of those posts did a good job of capturing most of the salient information that simply gets recycled here over and over, for the most part.

One thing you may notice is that the technique I recommend is different than some others. I never mention price before hand, I simply gift them after the fact based on performance. It's a tactic that basically capitalizes on a couple of key facts: 1) that it weeds out escorts masquerading as SBs (since most of those are going to require up front agreement), and 2) that the average SB really doesn't WANT to discuss money, and given a good reason to defer having the talk will do so. That's not to say my technique or recommendation is necessarily what you want to do, it's just one way of doing it that completely eliminates the sorts of issues you're inquiring about.

As you read, if you do find yourself interested in my technique, try to ignore the references to timelines ("many years ago", etc.). That is simply anonymizing the timeline to help protect my privacy and giving the reader the benefit of the doubt they could figure out what I was doing -- very clearly I was a little too giving with benefits in the case of a handful of folks, some bulbs burn brighter than others... lol...but don't let it throw you as you read it for the first time.

So I've been triple booking m&gs as of late. With the SO out of town, it makes things much easier. I've found that there is about a 30 percent drop rate as well. Of those that drop about 50 percent have real excuses or something just came up. Having been the guy to ditch a m&g because of a last minute meeting, I completely understand. Having weekends available does make things much easier though.

I've found that triple booking m&gs in different coffee shops in one hour increments to be pretty effective. A Starbucks for certain types of girls and an independent local coffee house for another type that would prefer that kind of thing. I make sure to keep them within a 15 minute walk from one another. The third booking doesn't get a specific time, but rather a "hey let's meet at a coffee house in this general location in the late morning on this date, and play it by ear. " Inevitably one will flake. Sometimes they go dark, never to be heard of again. Of course, on the other hand, when you take a pic of the location where you were supposed to meet and send them a text with a note letting them know in a very nice way that you regretted not being able to take them out. You'll be surprised how much goodwill that can buy you.

On a separate note, my m&gs this month have hit the double digits and I've noticed a recurring theme. Many of these pots are looking for their version of Christian Grey. I guess after the book got turned into a movie a lot more of these ladies have this idea in their head about what a guy should be doing in the bedroom. I have neither watched the movie or read the book, but need to put it on my list. I've found it difficult to engage in some conversations without this background. Just like when I first started, all the young pots were talking about EDM, and for the longest time I thought it was a band. It was only until later that I realized it was a genre of music.

Note to self, I need to also find a relatively interesting fetish to keep up with some of you brothers who have been playing in the bowl. The stories some of these girls have could really be turned into a movie. Of course when a profile says the pot is into bdsm, a sub, or a dom, I guess its to be expected. The ones that really throw me off are the shy demure types that have just moved to the big city from the rural mid west or south. It's amazing what some if these girls will talk about when you make them comfortable. Like all things this game is evolving, and it seems that things are different than they were even just a few months back since I took a break to spend time with my swim instructor.

As they say, those who can't do, teach and lecture, and so to keep your game fresh, you may want to put a toe back in the water. Of course these are just my meanderings based on my own personal experiences so take them with a grain of salt.

Please keep this to US.

It's confusing enough as it is.

There is a whole other site for international. .

As in [URL]internationalsexguide.info[/URL].

[QUOTE=FTP1999;2622994]Please keep this to US. It's confusing enough as it is. There is a whole other site for international. As in [URL]internationalsexguide.info[/URL].[/QUOTE]Another potential issue is that is that if anyone is planning on utilizing any level of technique, they're going to find that they will have to make subtle adjustments between different cities / metro areas for good results. Even up and down the east coast, I find that my approach has to be modified somewhat in order to deal with SBs that I talk to in one city versus another. South Florida is like another planet from most other cities -- influx of dirty money invokes the need for different tactics. Small differences in the statistical female to male ratio of a given area also makes a big difference. The way I deal with SBs in DC has to be different from the way I play my cards only a few hours away in Norfolk -- one area is poon-a-plenty and the other area is a sausage-fest. Girls are available in either on the SD sites, but the types, their expectations, and special handling can vary noticeably. I can only imagine those differences would be magnified in playing in the bowl across multiple countries. I think the geographical differences are one reason we've seen so many brothers come back to report failed results with bulk mailing canned scripts and such. What works in one area doesn't necessarily work everywhere with SBs. With escorts, sure. It's the worlds oldest profession and the formula is simpler and more universal, pay them and the panties drop -- shooting fish in a barrel, in that case the advice in any forum on USASG or ISG would probably work just as well as the advice here.

[QUOTE=FTP1999;2622994]Please keep this to US.

It's confusing enough as it is.

There is a whole other site for international. .

As in [URL]internationalsexguide.info[/URL].[/QUOTE]It's an interesting question.

After all, some of the sugar sites are international, so maybe this whole forum should be on the international board. I guess it depends on how many people travel and sugar.

Also, this is the Richmond board. So to be consistent, it should probably not be here.

Personally, I don't think it's worth the hassle of transferring everything. But if it did get to that, the idea of transferring to the international board to get a broader set of ideas, and to better align with the sugar sites themselves would be worth pursuing.

As an example of the principle of what I mean, and I don't want to discuss details as the details are OT, many people here have expressed interest in asian women. Well, guess what? If this were an international board, experiences from places like Angeles City (which nowadays operates much like a sugar bowl) would be on topic.

However, it is much better to have the discussions in one place to keep boards active. This board is doing ok, so why shift it, even if it is not really on topic for Richmond?

[QUOTE=RubberyMan;2623773]It's an interesting question.

After all, some of the sugar sites are international, so maybe this whole forum should be on the international board. I guess it depends on how many people travel and sugar.

Also, this is the Richmond board. So to be consistent, it should probably not be here.

Personally, I don't think it's worth the hassle of transferring everything. But if it did get to that, the idea of transferring to the international board to get a broader set of ideas, and to better align with the sugar sites themselves would be worth pursuing.

As an example of the principle of what I mean, and I don't want to discuss details as the details are OT, many people here have expressed interest in asian women. Well, guess what? If this were an international board, experiences from places like Angeles City (which nowadays operates much like a sugar bowl) would be on topic.

However, it is much better to have the discussions in one place to keep boards active. This board is doing ok, so why shift it, even if it is not really on topic for Richmond?[/QUOTE]You have a point, but to address the comment about Angeles City and Asian women -- as you pointed out Angeles City itself has its own characteristics. There are cities in the world where the idea of a "sugar daddy" is pretty much a non-issue, because the women in that region have the expectation that their boyfriend is always a provider of monetary and non-monetary gifts. With that in mind, talking about the expectations / attitudes etc of women there and hoping to map those experiences here in specific US cities is probably not going to work.

So, to answer your question of why shift it, I will only put forth my opinion. I've always thought the entire subject of sugar babies should not be lumped into any one city forum or even a specific topic. There is a vast range of differences in what people are doing with these SB sites. I'd like to see it all put into a special city-agnostic section with some sort of organization that makes more sense and facilitates communication in common interest. For example, I would prefer not to read the discussions from members who conceptualize the bowl as one thing and dating as "in real life" as if they were two separate ideas. To all of the SBs I've ever known, it's all "real life", and if it's not then they are just faking through the act of sex. The girls I like to meet make little to no differentiation between the guys they meet on SD sites and boyfriends. I recognize however, that's not what everyone wants or is expecting from an SD site. Some just want fast discrete hookups without the dating aspect, and want it at the cheapest price possible.

Wouldn't it be better to have a set of threads where those with a similar interest to mine could exchange tips and philosophy on the girls who look at it as dating and simultaneously have threads where people could post their daily anecdotal experiences or photos or whatever they care to talk about? Seems to me it would be a major improvement over trying to lump everything under one city.

As far as the separation of USASG vs ISG, I believe that's a choice the site owner made -- perhaps for business (ad revenue) reasons. I may be mistaken but I believe once upon a time USASG was the same as ISG.

I don't see a problem at all. Where is all this perceived confusion or problems with having guests from another country? Am I missing something?

Earlier I posted about my new lineup addition, the 23 yr old. I enjoyed her enough on Saturday that I had her over again on Sunday. Nice little body and tight.

This morning I get a text from the 33 yr old writer telling me she "woke up so horny she could hump her pillow" and wants to get together later today. I'm trying to do the right thing and set this up to help this poor woman.

Did I say I love the the bowl?

My 22 yr old model was supposed to meet me this Wednesday, but my work schedule is just not allowing it, so she agreed to push our meeting to Friday.

I'm still in contact with the 19 yr old read head patching up my screw up last Saturday. I'm bringing her around and trying to set up a M & G this Saturday.

I'm also keeping warm the conversation with the 29 yr old Latino hottie. That's still on the burner. Both her and the 19 year old live in the same city, so I'm trying to set the M & G's on the same day.

I'm seriously considering hiding my profile. I have enough action now, and I'm pretty content with my model and the 23 yr old model type not to mention the others in play.

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2624230]
I'm seriously considering hiding my profile. I have enough action now, and I'm pretty content with my model and the 23 yr old model type not to mention the others in play.[/QUOTE]Ah dude, reconsider that. These things tend to run in spurts and while it is feast right now, it can be just a change in the phase of the moon and one is in famine territory.

Consider as wise what another bowl participant said, that 1) having several in play allows one to project confidence that attracts others and 2) that it makes sense to always be vetting new ones to fill the voids as they appear.

So as the famous line goes ABC. Always Be Closing!

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2624230]Earlier I posted about my new lineup addition, the 23 yr old. I enjoyed her enough on Saturday that I had her over again on Sunday. Nice little body and tight.

I'm seriously considering hiding my profile. I have enough action now, and I'm pretty content with my model and the 23 yr old model type not to mention the others in play.[/QUOTE]Cudos for your success. What is your monthly budget Mike? The only limit to Bowling is time and money. If you have unlimited amounts of each then keep your bait in the water. If you are tapping out you don't want to keep your info out there but be unavailable to close. Wait until a slot opens up and your profile will look fresh to the new listers. The temptation is to fuck as many strange pussies as you can --just because you can-and it is fun. But the goal is to have a continual supply available when you want them.

My current Baby is active on 3 sites while seeing me. She is not successful for reasons known only to me -but I know. But if she encounters other candidates I know she will add them in. Her pussy still smells clean -I can tell if other guys are dumping into the pot. She is a short termer anyway so I tolerate it since I need a dumpster who will BB.

[QUOTE=CephlapodLove;2624283]Ah dude, reconsider that. These things tend to run in spurts and while it is feast right now, it can be just a change in the phase of the moon and one is in famine territory.

Consider as wise what another bowl participant said, that 1) having several in play allows one to project confidence that attracts others and 2) that it makes sense to always be vetting new ones to fill the voids as they appear.

So as the famous line goes ABC. Always Be Closing![/QUOTE]What you speak of is very true. I haven't officially hidden it. More because I've been quite busy this week at work. I have noticed how the action ebbs and flows. It gets hot then will go slow with little action. Kind of like you said regarding the phases of the moon, but what is happening is the budget is getting a bit strained by the current action and others on the bench waiting to do a M & G. At any one time I could have 6 text messages going with six women, and all at once sometimes. It is a juggling act.

Thanks for the advice. It is noted.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2624345]Cudos for your success. What is your monthly budget Mike? The only limit to Bowling is time and money. If you have unlimited amounts of each then keep your bait in the water. If you are tapping out you don't want to keep your info out there but be unavailable to close. Wait until a slot opens up and your profile will look fresh to the new listers. The temptation is to fuck as many strange pussies as you can --just because you can-and it is fun. But the goal is to have a continual supply available when you want them.

My current Baby is active on 3 sites while seeing me. She is not successful for reasons known only to me -but I know. But if she encounters other candidates I know she will add them in. Her pussy still smells clean -I can tell if other guys are dumping into the pot. She is a short termer anyway so I tolerate it since I need a dumpster who will BB.[/QUOTE]My budget is pretty steady at 150 per meet with the exception of the 22 yr old model babe who is coming in at 250, and she is willing to drive to me, which cuts down on my hotel bill when she does that. She is perfectly willing to drive three hours as well as I am. I wouldn't do that for just anyone, but I like her. Not only is she physically appealing, but she also is intelligent (recent undergrad and verified by me), but polite and not selfish. And is also willing to please. All around nice girl.

I don't have a hard monthly budget as of yet.

Good point and that is what is kind of happening. I have my information out there, but I really don't want to close, because time is keeping me from seeing all of them, but I would like to keep them on the back burner though.

I do like the thrill of fucking new pussy, so today I might say I'm content, but next week or month I might start to get tired of the same pussy even though the model and the model type girls are hot. I do know that from being married to a hot Asian for 2 1/2 years, but living together for five that pussy can get old no matter how hot the woman is. That is just my feeling on the situation, so it won't surprise me if I get back to dabbling in the bowl after awhile.

I have the 33 yr old writer, but with our schedules I see so little of her I can't really say she is in my lineup. I haven't yet cut loose the Senior and Asian Grad student.

Yesterday I finally was able to hook up with the 33 yr old writer. She met me at my house for lunch and we went at it. We don't see each other much, because our schedules just don't align most of the time, but yesterday it did.

She gave me the longest BBBJ I have had in a while. It appeared she was missing my cock, of which I was the beneficiary. But what got me going was when she finished, and she was starting to move up to mount me I looked down her body and her pussy was literally dripping it was so wet. She rode me like she hasn't had sex in a while. When finished we showed up and gave each other a little peck and back to work we both went.

Reminds me of that old song Afternoon Delight LOL.

I don't see this one often. We did go out last weekend, but we didn't end in the FC, because of extenuating circumstances. Not her fault or mine. Long story. But the bottom line was no sugar to her for no sugar to me. So she essentially came back to get that sugar from me and gave me dripping sugar.