"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2616418]Been out the bowl for awhile now. Promoted long-term SB to live-in SO. It's going very good so far and saved $$$ from my previous stream of rotating babies. I've been contemplating coming out of retirement. Is there anything worthwhile out there? I picked up some side chicks in the civi world. None have been to FC yet, but I noticed I'm approaching civi girls as if they're SB's. My game has been on another level since The Bowl.[/QUOTE]Hoya, Am I to understand that your former SB has become an SO-and is still there? Now you want to play the bowl again? The moral of that story is keep an Sb in her place as an SB. All girls become old hat after you live with them every day-even those 9's and 10's. So why bring them in house when you know you want to continue to play the field?

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2616550]Hoya, Am I to understand that your former SB has become an SO-and is still there? Now you want to play the bowl again? The moral of that story is keep an Sb in her place as an SB. All girls become old hat after you live with them every day-even those 9's and 10's. So why bring them in house when you know you want to continue to play the field?[/QUOTE]Good stuff, FredMoore. Where were you when I was contemplating moving her in? LMAO. I burnt out from constantly rotating girls. I was always back and forth with this particular SB. We grew up in the same area, and related well. She's almost half my age, "my" perfect 10 and only wears thongs around the house. That helps my work stress ALOT!

It seemed like a live in situation was the natural progression for a young college SB. I like our arrangement and haven't grown tired yet. I was curious if my area was back with new babies. It seemed like things were stagnant for awhile. I'm not ready to play the field again just yet, but it's good to know if my girl gets out of place that I can go back full on in The Bowl.

I got tempted recently after putting a colleague on to SA. The photos he's been sending of his new girls are out of this world. He too will probably burn out soon.

[QUOTE=FScott;2616473]I totally agree with Lizard on this one. As I have stated previously, I'm all in favor of outing Bad Babies, scammers, con artists, Eastern European fakers, etc, with specific names, profiles and pics, but semantics aside, true SBs are not escorts, don't view themselves as such, and ought not to be treated as such. Don't poison your own well by behaving badly, my brothers. If too many babies are scared away from the Bowl, it will be just you and Rosie again, and who wants that?
If you want a "George Bailey" moment, just take a look at the "Chicago's non-pros" thread in my area to get an idea of what this could devolve into. Poor saps sharing names off CL and BP like they were state secrets. Any info I've posted over the years has not been to help you catch MY little fish, but to help you catch your own.
[/QUOTE]The other consideration is that once a person collaborates with another one over the Internet to participate in an illegal sex related activity, they become subject to laws involving human trafficking, organized crime, etc. (particularly if it involves communication across state boundaries).

I think it's obvious to anyone here that "the feds have bigger fish to fry than a couple of guys swapping digits of their favorite UTR girls" and yes that's true -- they don't want a conviction against you, the SD. However shutting down SD sites wholesale would be quite a big fish and a feather in their cap and they would LOVE to use evidence of organized criminal activity / trafficking as an excuse to do it. "Swapping" girls can quickly be turned into exploitation by the media.

The idea that trading info on a baby will devolve into something like an exchange of names of girls on CL or BP presumes the pot / baby will respond to any Tom, Dick or Harry. Yes, girls from CL and BP who post an ad are likely looking to make a quick buck, and or likely to respond to any Tom Dick, or Harry. Every major city has the type of page you reference in your post. Yes, there are plenty of UTR girls that are on SA.

A pot / sb can only be treated like a escort if she allows for it. If that's not who she is, then she won't return messages that treat her as such.

Now I do agree that sharing lists of UTRs found on SA has little value. If I wanted to be on the clock, I'd go to one of my well established services. Yes. Out of self interest many guys out there will only provide throw away info in hopes of getting better info and trading up. I have no interest in that kind of info.

What I'm talking about is the exchange of info on real SBs. When I finish with an SB, I am truly done with her. I play in the bowl because I crave variety and the excitement that comes with a new encounter. To the extent that sharing of info helps save me time and money, I am all for it. I also completely understand that there is a real possibility the pot will have no interest in me. It helps to weed out GPS, and gives a ballpark of what to expect. At the end of the day though, this is truly a game of YMMV.

As for competing for your fish or my fish, or a strangers fish. Well, in my humble opinion, if your SB's profile is still up and active on any site, then at the end of the day we are all competing for the same fish and limited only by region, time and money.

Not attacking here, and the debate about the sharing of info has already been debated. I, like you, have no interest in a list of UTRs. What I did want to do was point out that information sharing has value, when done properly.

And as for scaring away babies from the bowl, why would info sharing do that? It should help them stay in the bowl since a good baby will be guaranteed to have high quality SDs who already knows what she wants, allowing her to pick a SD that suits her tastes.

Frankly, I would love it if my SBs shared my info.

[QUOTE=FScott;2616473]I totally agree with Lizard on this one. As I have stated previously, I'm all in favor of outing Bad Babies, scammers, con artists, Eastern European fakers, etc, with specific names, profiles and pics, but semantics aside, true SBs are not escorts, don't view themselves as such, and ought not to be treated as such. Don't poison your own well by behaving badly, my brothers. If too many babies are scared away from the Bowl, it will be just you and Rosie again, and who wants that?

If you want a "George Bailey" moment, just take a look at the "Chicago's non-pros" thread in my area to get an idea of what this could devolve into. Poor saps sharing names off CL and BP like they were state secrets. Any info I've posted over the years has not been to help you catch MY little fish, but to help you catch your own.

Peace,

Scott.[/QUOTE]

JL. Not an attack by any means, but more of a question because you post so authoritatively on the issue. Do you have a legal or law enforcement background?

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2616782]The other consideration is that once a person collaborates with another one over the Internet to participate in an illegal sex related activity, they become subject to laws involving human trafficking, organized crime, etc. (particularly if it involves communication across state boundaries).

I think it's obvious to anyone here that "the feds have bigger fish to fry than a couple of guys swapping digits of their favorite UTR girls" and yes that's true -- they don't want a conviction against you, the SD. However shutting down SD sites wholesale would be quite a big fish and a feather in their cap and they would LOVE to use evidence of organized criminal activity / trafficking as an excuse to do it. "Swapping" girls can quickly be turned into exploitation by the media.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2616808]The idea that trading info on a baby will devolve into something like an exchange of names of girls on CL or BP presumes the pot / baby will respond to any Tom, Dick or Harry. Yes, girls from CL and BP who post an ad are likely looking to make a quick buck, and or likely to respond to any Tom Dick, or Harry. Every major city has the type of page you reference in your post. Yes, there are plenty of UTR girls that are on SA.

A pot / sb can only be treated like a escort if she allows for it. If that's not who she is, then she won't return messages that treat her as such.

And as for scaring away babies from the bowl, why would info sharing do that? It should help them stay in the bowl since a good baby will be guaranteed to have high quality SDs who already knows what she wants, allowing her to pick a SD that suits her tastes.

Frankly, I would love it if my SBs shared my info.[/QUOTE]My initial comments weren't aimed as much at the babies as they were a general observation about the tone and quality of this particular thread, which I find outstanding and unique compared to the rest of the forum. I have been contributing since the beginning, and with two or three short exceptions, have seen nothing but class, intelligence and willingness to help among the brotherhood. I am happy to contribute my experiences to such a thread. My purpose in comparing it to the Chicago thread was to highlight what could happen to this most excellent journal if it devolves into hooker-swapping, that's all. For me, it would become a thread I would not post to, which is why I don't post in my own area in Chicago.

Regarding scaring the babies away - put yourself in their position for a minute and I think it will become clear. You are a 20 something who heard about the Bowl from a segment on TV. You sign up, but are skittish, and when you finally meet someone who seems nice, you begin to get messages out of the blue possibly containing a phrase like, "Hi there, Very Young Baby. My friend Smelly, who you've been seeing, told me you were into getting spanked. I like that too! Let's cut the bs and hook up. " Exaggerated for effect, of course, but you get the drift. She runs for cover, never to be seen again by you or anyone else. Too many of those situations and you've got an empty Bowl, except for the pros and UTRs. A bleak future to be sure. We may need to agree to disagree on this point, but personally I see no benefit in sharing info on the good ones. Outing scammers and crooks is another matter.

Lastly, I completely understand that I'm not the only one contacting the girls in my area, that we all initially have the same chances, and ultimately it is the little fish who decides if she is going to rise to my fly or someone else's. That being said, I don't think I am required to point her out to someone else and tell them exactly how to approach her. Let them learn on their own. I'm just thankful that the SDs in Chicago for the most part seem clueless!

Peace to us all.

Scott.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2615808]My swim instructor has been my SB for a few months, but I didn't really pursue her for very long.[/QUOTE]If I recall correctly you were patient with her and worked on her over many dates before making it to the FC! Unlike the typical SB who guys get into FC on the second or third date max.

Some of us are real bastards! We start drooling whenever we hear of a babe who was worth all the time and effort. PM her pic if you can.

Fscott. I agree that your scenario where one SD introduces himself in the manner you describe would be offputting and scare away pots. Out of sheer self interest of landing a baby, I would suspect most guys would not, since it would essentially kill their chance of actually making it to the FC. Then again, I may be giving too much credit to our brothers in the bowl.

Of course if you know whether a pot's profile expectations are complete bs, whether she is into white, black, Hispanic or asian guys, and whether her schedule might likely coincide with yours. That info saves quite a bit of time that would be otherwise spent on messaging and money spent on meet and greets, along with dinners.

So I agree with your specific example, but not the overall argument. I also agree that posting info on babies to the forum is a terrible idea because you've just exponentially increased the pool of competition.

I also don't think anyone should be required to participate in anything they don't want to. What I am saying is that if you find a like minded SD with similar tastes, it could save you both quite a bit of time and energy. Assuming one grows tired with his SBs of course.

As for me, I am in the enviable situation of not needing info right now, but also don't have the hubris to think that I might not need it later.

[QUOTE=FScott;2616864]My initial comments weren't aimed as much at the babies as they were a general observation about the tone and quality of this particular thread, which I find outstanding and unique compared to the rest of the forum. I have been contributing since the beginning, and with two or three short exceptions, have seen nothing but class, intelligence and willingness to help among the brotherhood. I am happy to contribute my experiences to such a thread. My purpose in comparing it to the Chicago thread was to highlight what could happen to this most excellent journal if it devolves into hooker-swapping, that's all. For me, it would become a thread I would not post to, which is why I don't post in my own area in Chicago.

Regarding scaring the babies away - put yourself in their position for a minute and I think it will become clear. You are a 20 something who heard about the Bowl from a segment on TV. You sign up, but are skittish, and when you finally meet someone who seems nice, you begin to get messages out of the blue possibly containing a phrase like, "Hi there, Very Young Baby. My friend Smelly, who you've been seeing, told me you were into getting spanked. I like that too! Let's cut the bs and hook up. " Exaggerated for effect, of course, but you get the drift. She runs for cover, never to be seen again by you or anyone else. Too many of those situations and you've got an empty Bowl, except for the pros and UTRs. A bleak future to be sure. We may need to agree to disagree on this point, but personally I see no benefit in sharing info on the good ones. Outing scammers and crooks is another matter.

Lastly, I completely understand that I'm not the only one contacting the girls in my area, that we all initially have the same chances, and ultimately it is the little fish who decides if she is going to rise to my fly or someone else's. That being said, I don't think I am required to point her out to someone else and tell them exactly how to approach her. Let them learn on their own. I'm just thankful that the SDs in Chicago for the most part seem clueless!

Peace to us all.

Scott.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FScott;2616864]My initial comments weren't aimed as much at the babies as they were a general observation about the tone and quality of this particular thread, which I find outstanding and unique compared to the rest of the forum. I have been contributing since the beginning, and with two or three short exceptions, have seen nothing but class, intelligence and willingness to help among the brotherhood. I am happy to contribute my experiences to such a thread. My purpose in comparing it to the Chicago thread was to highlight what could happen to this most excellent journal if it devolves into hooker-swapping, that's all. For me, it would become a thread I would not post to, which is why I don't post in my own area in Chicago.

Scott.[/QUOTE]That exact scenario exists here and on every board. If you check CL, BP, UTR, etc you will see the shameless bartering that goes on everywhere. "give me digits for XX and I'll trade you a hot Redbone up on Rt 66" You have seen it my brothers.

Having said that and cringing at the crassness of the deal, a private group in each area could be instructive. Guys are possessive about their finds and don't want to give a lead to others, but there IS valuable info to be had. It should be offered openly without demand for quid pro quo, and only to proven members who have been around and posted enough for their name to be familiar. Lets say I am working Suzie Q. I would love to float a query out to the group if there is any intel on her. Some guys might have some valid pointers that would enhance or deter further efforts. I have had bad experiences that I would love to share in private, but not on the public forum here, for reasons given by several of the brotherhood. Face it -we all have a shot at each SB on the sites. You don't have to blow your strategy with her but can still offer some facts about those you have info on.

My swim instructor did take more than the typical messaging, m&g, then trip to the FC. I was more patient with her than any other baby I've had.

The only pics I have of her are Fb pics. I don't take pics in the FC, for my own protection.

As for sending them to you, I will have to respectfully decline my friend. I could just download a random blondes Facebook pic and sent it to you. I could also send you her Facebook pic since you will probably never run across her in real life.

I would not want to disrespect either of you in that way, and yes, she is special to me. Your imagination will have to suffice.

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;2616876]If I recall correctly you were patient with her and worked on her over many dates before making it to the FC! Unlike the typical SB who guys get into FC on the second or third date max.

Some of us are real bastards! We start drooling whenever we hear of a babe who was worth all the time and effort. PM her pic if you can.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2616811]JL. Not an attack by any means, but more of a question because you post so authoritatively on the issue. Do you have a legal or law enforcement background?[/QUOTE]Not involved with LE at all, but I guess you could say reasonably educated (including a reasonable amount of formal academic experience on the subject) on certain aspects of the law. Life experience has taught me that when there is a hobby that I enjoy (sugarbabies for example), there is always a risk of that hobby being eroded / shut down etc. by activities that take it beyond the boundaries of the law. So I guess you could say I'm passionate about the subject as it applies to our hobby here? Sugarbabying in itself is not illegal, so I don't support the activities of those who stretch it into illegal territory, it only threatens the hobby for the rest of us.

My posts are not meant to sound authoritative, however. They are just providing facts that give the reader the benefit of the doubt that they know enough about how to use a search engine to verify. I never ask anyone to take my word for anything -- all I ask is that nobody request me to research things for them or spoon feed them the fruits of my own research labor. Everything I've said is easily verifiable for someone with moderate research skills and/or the same level of wherewithal to learn how the law works. I always say never believe anything you read over the net - find it out for yourself. And until you've put in the grunt work to do so, it's possibly wise to take the word of someone who already has.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2616909]

As for sending them to you, I will have to respectfully decline my friend. I could just download a random blondes Facebook pic and sent it to you. I could also send you her Facebook pic since you will probably never run across her in real life.

I would not want to disrespect either of you in that way, and yes, she is special to me. Your imagination will have to suffice.[/QUOTE]I rest my case, haha! Tastefully handled, Smelly.

Scott.

I think we all can agree that playing in the bowl isn't illegal. I don't think any true SB is being subjected to human trafficing because they have the ability to simply ignore a crass message.

My question is, how would trading information on a legal activity make that activity illegal? For example, would swapping info on which lake has the best trout somehow make fishing illegal?

Sure, I agree public lists of UTRs and pros masquerading on SA is undesirable. That should be saved for other parts of this website and has no place here in this forum. I also agree that too much publicity can have a serious negative affect on the bowl.

I am interested in why sharing information on what someone likes and dislikes would be considered potentially criminal activity, especially if you agree that playing in the bowl isn't illegal (although I think we would both agree that depending on how one plays, it could arguably cross the line).

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2616920]Not involved with LE at all, but I guess you could say reasonably educated (including a reasonable amount of formal academic experience on the subject) on certain aspects of the law. Life experience has taught me that when there is a hobby that I enjoy (sugarbabies for example), there is always a risk of that hobby being eroded / shut down etc. by activities that take it beyond the boundaries of the law. So I guess you could say I'm passionate about the subject as it applies to our hobby here? Sugarbabying in itself is not illegal, so I don't support the activities of those who stretch it into illegal territory, it only threatens the hobby for the rest of us.

My posts are not meant to sound authoritative, however. They are just providing facts that give the reader the benefit of the doubt that they know enough about how to use a search engine to verify. I never ask anyone to take my word for anything -- all I ask is that nobody request me to research things for them or spoon feed them the fruits of my own research labor. Everything I've said is easily verifiable for someone with moderate research skills and/or the same level of wherewithal to learn how the law works. I always say never believe anything you read over the net - find it out for yourself. And until you've put in the grunt work to do so, it's probably better to take the word of someone who already has.[/QUOTE]

Although if pghguy lived in the mid Atlantic rather than the Southeast, and if we shared the same taste in girls, I probably would be willing to share her info with him to give him a leg up on the competition after we end our arrangement and assuming her profile goes live again.

Unlike FM, I do believe a quid pro quo is required, but mainly to keep everyone honest. Like any good economist, I beleive there is no free lunch and in the problems associated with free riders.

That being said, yes, she is special to me, so your point is taken. Well done sir.

[QUOTE=FScott;2616928]I rest my case, haha! Tastefully handled, Smelly.

Scott.[/QUOTE]

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Where this thread, that was the best on this site, has gone. I came here originally for ideas and the experience's of others, and it benefited me greatly. I really never minded the war stories, either. I recognized that some of the ideas or methods used by others I could work with, and some didn't fit my needs or budget or personality. Now there are too many lectures, and sentiments of "if you don't do it my way, you aren't dealing with TRUE sugarbabies. " I haven't looked in on the thread in a while because of it, and when I did, all I could think was, it's sad.

[blue]When seniors get to fighting like little girls I don't see it because they are unmoderated. Report it next time and I'll do something about it. Nobody really wants to read their douchey shit where they fight like drunk strippers.

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This is a great thread. I have personally benefited a lot from it. At the EOD this is an anonymous forum. Why do people care so much to bicker and change an anonymous person's opinions? I find all sorts of posts except these interesting. Even pure brag stories which I read for months really inspired me to try it out. Many posts with approaches and anecdotes gave me a lot of tips on how to handle young girls. I am not an expert in 20 year olds. At least 20 year olds circa 2015.

All in all, I would hate to see this thread wither and die due to a few errant argumentative posts from a few people.

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[BLUE]Ladies I suggest you all back off and start posting about hookers that like to think they aren't hookers and stop fighting like drunk strippers or some guys are going to end up back on moderation.

Seriously, I'm checking back on this thread and whoever starts this shit up again, or gets involved in it again is going back on moderation.

Some of you guys like to push me when I say stuff like this. You don't get to sit at your desks and try to figure out how to bait another guy into being douchey so he gets hammered and then act innocent with me. Post about hookers. Pussy, panoche, punanni, titties, bootie. But start this stupidity again and it's clobbering time.

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Seriously, knock it the fuck off right fucking now. I'm not saying this again. Dad is about to stop the car.

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[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2617401]
Seriously, knock it the fuck off right fucking now. I'm not saying this again. Dad is about to stop the car.
[/QUOTE]I sent you a PM on this. Those were posted before I saw that you had intervened and your warning, I wasn't ignoring the warning (don't think Mike was either).

I have been on SA for a couple of months now. Met a nice lady a few times a few months ago (bartender by trade) and had a m&g with a potential SB yesterday.

The lady I met with a few times (bartender) was a cute blonde bartender who I believe has relocated to Baltimore.

Met with a LOVELY 35 year old Russian lady from SA yesterday (nice, quiet, dark Chinese restaurant). What a delightful lunch companion. Looking at the 200 range per dream I think.

Meeting with a MILF potential tomorrow at lunch. Seems nice. We'll see. Like that she's married.

Do I wish SA was a little cheaper? HELL yes. Do I feel like I'm meeting a little better quality of girl a little more safely? HELL yes!

Been a crazy week with the numer of m&gs scheduled, and will update with more time permitting. In the meantime, word of caution to the brothers with SOs.

Went on a m&g last night with a mixed Asian (half korean / half french) graduate baby. She is a little older than what I like since I have been focused on the 18-20 crowd lately (dates are so much cheaper without a bottle or two of wine and the bodies are so much tighter! She got a pass because I am a sucker for the white asian mixes. Normally taller with tits and ass, but with those lovely features that so many korean girls have.

I won't bore you with all the m&g details, but a cautionary note to brothers with a SO. Beware the ring dent or ring line. Since placing my mercenary profile up, I stopped taking off my ring for m&gs. Basically, the pot knows what she's getting into, so why take it off. If someone I know bumps into me, its also easier to explain the situation than if my ring is off.

She commented about how she thought it was a little brazen of me to be doing our m&g with my ring on. She then went on to say that it was a refreshing change of pace to many of the other guys who pretend to be single, but are cleary not due to the ring tan line that shows after the summer and the ring dent that comes with wearing a wedding band.

Thinking about it now, I suspect I probably lost a few babies in the past due to this problem.

As an aside, FC trip is planned for next week. We did not talk about an allowance directly, but based on the allowance her prior SD gave her, I am sure she will be significantly lower than my swim instructor and slightly more than the other ladies who I havr added to the rotation on this go around.

The bowl becomes infinitly easier when you have options. Its like the pots can smell the difference.

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2617937]

The bowl becomes infinitly easier when you have options. Its like the pots can smell the difference.[/QUOTE]I have sensed the same thing.