Looking forward to alcohol being targeted next.
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Looking forward to alcohol being targeted next.
[QUOTE=SuStar;6027153]A man's personal liberty to drink whisky and support barrooms ends where the rights of the family and the community begin.
[URL]https://quoteinvestigator.com/2011/10/15/liberty-fist-nose/[/URL]
I saw an implicit denial in one of your earlier statements.
"Liberty is not unlimited" is pertinent to this discussion and worth noting.
My initial reply to your original post was the first time I noted it.
The term "common good" appears twice in that reply.[/QUOTE]Bullying, rape, human trafficking, and child abuse are violations of personal property rights. Many of the ills you mentioned as they relate to prostitution are the result of prostitution being illegal. Drug abuse has always been a part of the human condition, however by making drugs illegal the government has made the problem thousands of times worse by creating the huge profit motive. Homelessness and poverty have other causes that potentially could be alleviated if the government spent the money they now waste on prohibition on those causes.
Money is stolen from us via "Universal acclimation" in the form of property taxes every year. It is still theft.
Cheech.
There was a potential report in the massage thread that King Me in Grafton may have run into some legal troubles yesterday and is now closed. I haven't seen anything online about it but I figured I would post it in the news thread in case anyone has updates.
[QUOTE=Cheech1;6028755]Bullying, rape, human trafficking, and child abuse are violations of personal property rights.[/QUOTE]Women and children are no longer considered chattel.
An exception is for those who are complicit in human trafficking.
[QUOTE=Cheech1;6028755]Many of the ills you mentioned as they relate to prostitution are the result of prostitution being illegal[/QUOTE]Social problems flourish because prostitution is an inherently dangerous and dehumanizing activity, whether legal or illegal.
A major study found no statistical evidence supporting the contention that countries with legalized prostitution experienced lower levels of violent crime.
[URL]https://asp.mercatus.org/system/files/Bowen_MGPE.pdf[/URL]
One reason is that legalized prostitution leads to a general decay in social norms.
Recognizing that buying and selling sex has become an acceptable social norm, some men fall into believing that other denigrating acts are socially acceptable.
The idea of "buying women" leads to the mistaken notion that disrespecting women, assaulting women, and raping women is equally acceptable.
[URL]https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/human-trafficking-persists-despite-legality-of-prostitution-in-germany-a-902533.html[/URL]
[URL]https://www.medicaldaily.com/despite-legalization-prostitutes-germany-face-exploitation-and-trafficking-laws-intended-improve[/URL]
[URL]https://www.trauma-and-prostitution.eu/en/2018/06/19/the-german-model-17-years-after-the-legalization-of-prostitution/[/URL]
[QUOTE=Cheech1;6028755]Money is stolen from us via "universal acclimation" in the form of property taxes every year[/QUOTE]The word is "acclamation" and is defined as a shout or oral vote of enthusiastic approval without formal ballot.
The power of taxation is indispensable to the existence of the state, as necessary for the funding of all aspects of governmental operations.
The 16th Amendment to the Federal Constitution was ratified by a two-thirds majority vote of both houses of Congress and two-thirds of state legislatures.
The Federal Constitution grants Congress the power to tax in order to "provide for the common defense and general welfare".
The Ohio Constitution grants a similar power to the General Assembly.
[QUOTE=Cheech1;6028755]It is still theft[/QUOTE]Anarchists wrongly believe that taxes are a form of theft.
[QUOTE=Cheech1;6028755] Homelessness and poverty have other causes that potentially could be alleviated if the government spent the money they now waste on prohibition on those causes[/QUOTE]If you believe taxes as theft, then you cannot believe in re-distribution of income.
You cannot have it both ways.
SuStar,
Social problems flourish because prostitution is an inherently dangerous and dehumanizing activity, whether legal or illegal.
Recognizing that buying and selling sex has become an acceptable social norm, some men fall into believing that other denigrating acts are socially acceptable.
The idea of "buying women" leads to the mistaken notion that disrespecting women, assaulting women, and raping women is equally acceptable.
Not sure why you are on this site for men who seeking sex with women for a price. Are you on here to try to change our minds about this hobby? Do you think members on this site on among those who assault women?
[QUOTE=SuStar;6031657]
Social problems flourish because prostitution is an inherently dangerous and dehumanizing activity, whether legal or illegal.
A major study found no statistical evidence supporting the contention that countries with legalized prostitution experienced lower levels of violent crime.
[URL]https://asp.mercatus.org/system/files/Bowen_MGPE.pdf[/URL]
One reason is that legalized prostitution leads to a general decay in social norms.
Recognizing that buying and selling sex has become an acceptable social norm, some men fall into believing that other denigrating acts are socially acceptable.
The idea of "buying women" leads to the mistaken notion that disrespecting women, assaulting women, and raping women is equally acceptable.
[URL]https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/human-trafficking-persists-despite-legality-of-prostitution-in-germany-a-902533.html[/URL]
[URL]https://www.medicaldaily.com/despite-legalization-prostitutes-germany-face-exploitation-and-trafficking-laws-intended-improve[/URL]
[URL]https://www.trauma-and-prostitution.eu/en/2018/06/19/the-german-model-17-years-after-the-legalization-of-prostitution/[/URL]
[/QUOTE]You are going to need a lot more evidence to show that prostitution is actually the cause of societal problems. I'd argue that is a symptom and reflection. Likewise, the idea of "buying women" is not created by prostitution but rather inherent to our society and culture where everything is based on ownership of goods, resources, and people. Why would women be any different? And it wasnt very long ago that owning of people was not only legal and accepted but worth fighting a bloody war over. You think we have eradicated that viewpoint in just 150 years? While its not explicitly legal to "own" people, for most of the population if they try to show any sort of autonomy at their jobs then their livelihood and health will be threatened. Thats the point of our society.
So I do agree with your viewpoint on the exploitation and degradation inherent in prostitution. But that's capitalism baby. Its probably more healthy, satisfying, self-respecting, and "free" than most jobs in USA.
[QUOTE=SuStar;6031657]Women and children are no longer considered chattel.
An exception is for those who are complicit in human trafficking.
Social problems flourish because prostitution is an inherently dangerous and dehumanizing activity, whether legal or illegal.
A major study found no statistical evidence supporting the contention that countries with legalized prostitution experienced lower levels of violent crime.
[URL]https://asp.mercatus.org/system/files/Bowen_MGPE.pdf[/URL]
One reason is that legalized prostitution leads to a general decay in social norms.
Recognizing that buying and selling sex has become an acceptable social norm, some men fall into believing that other denigrating acts are socially acceptable.
The idea of "buying women" leads to the mistaken notion that disrespecting women, assaulting women, and raping women is equally acceptable.
[URL]https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/human-trafficking-persists-despite-legality-of-prostitution-in-germany-a-902533.html[/URL]
[URL]https://www.medicaldaily.com/despite-legalization-prostitutes-germany-face-exploitation-and-trafficking-laws-intended-improve[/URL]
[URL]https://www.trauma-and-prostitution.eu/en/2018/06/19/the-german-model-17-years-after-the-legalization-of-prostitution/[/URL]
The word is "acclamation" and is defined as a shout or oral vote of enthusiastic approval without formal ballot.
The power of taxation is indispensable to the existence of the state, as necessary for the funding of all aspects of governmental operations.
The 16th Amendment to the Federal Constitution was ratified by a two-thirds majority vote of both houses of Congress and two-thirds of state legislatures.
The Federal Constitution grants Congress the power to tax in order to "provide for the common defense and general welfare".
The Ohio Constitution grants a similar power to the General Assembly.
Anarchists wrongly believe that taxes are a form of theft.
If you believe taxes as theft, then you cannot believe in re-distribution of income.
You cannot have it both ways.[/QUOTE]I do not hold the view that women and children are chattel. I hold the view that people own their own bodies and therefore have the inherent right to do with them as they wish, so long as they do not infringe upon the rights of others.
Men have always bought sex, driven by the control of religion or the state. And women have always sold sex, either directly for money or for example when a woman gives her husband special sexual favors to achieve some goal like jewelry or some other desire she has.
I am not an anarchist, I am a Libertarian. As far as taxation goes, taxation has always been theft. When the constitution authorized taxation it was for import taxes and tariffs and things like that. You, as an individual, do not have the right to pick my pocket at the point of a gun to fund a school. 10 of you, as a group, do not have the right to pick my pocket at the point of a gun to fund a school. How then can a majority group, without my consent, vote to pick my pocket at the point of a gun to fund a school? They create this right out of thin air, and in fact have confiscated all the real estate in this country because one doesn't own something that one has to pay others to keep. Simple as that.
The fact that the gestapo government has legalized theft to run their myriad programs does not make it right. In fact, they not only steal from us now but through borrowing and money printing have stolen the future finances of our children, and if you don't understand that you better learn some real economics.
I clearly do not believe in the redistribution of income, stealing is stealing.
Cheech.
[QUOTE=Cheech1;6032400]- I hold the view that people own their own bodies and therefore have the inherent right to do with them as they wish, so long as they do not infringe upon the rights of others.
Cheech.[/QUOTE]By putting a woman in orange for being a hooker, its essentially the pigs and the courts implying that said woman's pussy is government property. Period.
He has a couple of valid points, such as how it gives certain men a sense of entitlement, but that comes down to a few bad apples ruining it for everyone else. Which further bolsters my argument for decriminalization, make it a $2000 fine, not jailable. That way nobody can be forced into it, its not implied that people are government property, and courts still get their money, but its off the streets and not out into the open. Hell, I'm sure more actual victims would be able to be saved that way because they wouldn't be afraid of talking because they don't have to be worried about being locked up.
C92.
[QUOTE=Chunks92;6032487]By putting a woman in orange for being a hooker, its essentially the pigs and the courts implying that said woman's pussy is government property. Period.
He has a couple of valid points, such as how it gives certain men a sense of entitlement, but that comes down to a few bad apples ruining it for everyone else. Which further bolsters my argument for decriminalization, make it a $2000 fine, not jailable. That way nobody can be forced into it, its not implied that people are government property, and courts still get their money, but its off the streets and not out into the open. Hell, I'm sure more actual victims would be able to be saved that way because they wouldn't be afraid of talking because they don't have to be worried about being locked up.
C92.[/QUOTE]I love all this input! And you guys are awesome but when can we talk about wet sloppy BBBJ again!! Be safe boyz.
[QUOTE=Cheech1;6032400]I do not hold the view that women and children are chattel.[/QUOTE]In your earlier post (#362), you wrote:
[QUOTE=Cheech1;6028755]Bullying, rape, human trafficking, and child abuse are violations of personal property rights.[/QUOTE]If rape and trafficking are "violations of personal property rights," then women and children are "personal property" or chattel.
Either they are chattel, or they are not.
Which is it?
You cannot have it both ways.
[QUOTE=Chunks92;6032487]By putting a woman in orange for being a hooker, its essentially the pigs and the courts implying that said woman's pussy is government property.[/QUOTE]At its minimum, it is a woman providing sexual activity in exchange for anything of value from a man, contra Chapter 2907.231 of the Ohio Revised Code.
It's about behavior, not anatomy or property.
It's about law, enacted by elected representatives to the Ohio General Assembly.
[QUOTE=CleveLoser;6032377]You are going to need a lot more evidence to show that prostitution is actually the cause of societal problems.[/QUOTE]The evidence is out there.
You can't claim it's not there by refusing to look for it.
Example:
"Most dogs are friendly and pose no threat to people who pet them. Therefore, it would be safe to pet the little dog that is approaching us now".
The dog might be growling and protecting its home, or it might even be foaming at the mouth, suggesting rabies.
If you don't look for it, you do so at your own peril.
Another example:
"That type of car is poorly made; a friend of mine has one, and it continually gives him trouble".
Are you sure your friend takes good care of the car?
Does he get the oil changed regularly?
Or does your friend fancy himself as a mechanic and just does a lousy job?
If you refuse to know about your friend's maintenance skills, are you providing an informed opinion about the car?
[QUOTE=Smith5494;6031838]Not sure why you are on this site for men who seeking sex with women for a price.[/QUOTE]It's interesting.
[QUOTE=Smith5494;6031838]Are you on here to try to change our minds about this hobby?[/QUOTE]It's far beyond my ability to change anyone's mind.
[QUOTE=Smith5494;6031838]Do you think members on this site on among those who assault women?[/QUOTE]The members here would never assault a woman.
However, statistics show that men who buy sex have less empathy for women in prostitution than men who don't buy sex.
[URL]https://prostitutionresearch.com/men-who-buy-sex-have-much-in-common-with-sexually-coercive-men-new-study-shows-4/[/URL]
The statistics on violence against prostitutes are overwhelming, but few if any here are willing to look at them.
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_prostitutes[/URL]
Haven't we beat this to death enough?
[blue][Deleted by Admin]
Obviously not because by doing this you help keep it alive.
A2[/blue]
[QUOTE=SuStar;6033615]The evidence is out there.
You can't claim it's not there by refusing to look for it.
Example:
"Most dogs are friendly and pose no threat to people who pet them. Therefore, it would be safe to pet the little dog that is approaching us now".
The dog might be growling and protecting its home, or it might even be foaming at the mouth, suggesting rabies.
If you don't look for it, you do so at your own peril.
Another example:
"That type of car is poorly made; a friend of mine has one, and it continually gives him trouble".
Are you sure your friend takes good care of the car?
Does he get the oil changed regularly?
Or does your friend fancy himself as a mechanic and just does a lousy job?
If you refuse to know about your friend's maintenance skills, are you providing an informed opinion about the car?[/QUOTE]I don't find any of that evidence compelling. Prostitution does not exist in a vacuum. Its part of our society.
Also, correlation does not equal causation. I don't doubt that there are negative outcomes associated with it but that does not mean that its the root cause.