"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2568853]There are lots of pros on the so called normal dating sites as well. Its an imperfect system that can't be corrected as it is not in the financial interest of the site owners to do so. SA isn't Silk Road. And the gov knows that. Very little chance they will have any FTC or CC processing problems going forward.

BP can have CC processing tomorrow if they want to go offshore. But they dont want the higher fees, 3 week hold times, and overall sketchiness of some of these outfits.[/QUOTE]Going offshore does not solve the problem. Allofmp3 never set foot in the US. Once bank transactions from North America are shut off, they are strangled.

I'd like to think your optimism about the impervious nature of SD sites to legal action is on track -- I truly would. It's just that it would fly totally contradictory to everything that has happened with sites that were targeted by US policy, and would contradict everything I've learned in multiple decades of relevant industry experience.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2568864]Going offshore does not solve the problem. Allofmp3 never set foot in the US. Once bank transactions from North America are shut off, they are strangled.

I'd like to think your optimism about the impervious nature of SD sites to legal action is on track -- I truly would. It's just that it would fly totally contradictory to everything that has happened with sites that were targeted by US policy, and would contradict everything I've learned in multiple decades of relevant industry experience.[/QUOTE]Going off-shores will keep the sites from getting shut down. Just take a look at our very own usasexguide which is hosted in Argentina I believe. So the only real trouble is if they run into trouble processing credit cards, kind of like we're seeing with BP and Mastercard / Visa. But this wouldn't be a death knell for these sites if it happened. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, if there's money to be made, someone will find a way. Whether it be Paypal, or some new startup that operates overseas if need be, the sugar sites will find a way to get paid, and some company will be more than happy to help them do so. My biggest concern is the sites getting a stigma attached to them like BP. If regular girls start viewing this as prostitution, then it will severely limit the amount of quality babies to choose from.

[QUOTE=DogSun;2568874]Going off-shores will keep the sites from getting shut down. Just take a look at our very own usasexguide which is hosted in Argentina I believe. So the only real trouble is if they run into trouble processing credit cards, kind of like we're seeing with BP and Mastercard / Visa. But this wouldn't be a death knell for these sites if it happened. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, if there's money to be made, someone will find a way. Whether it be Paypal, or some new startup that operates overseas if need be, the sugar sites will find a way to get paid, and some company will be more than happy to help them do so. My biggest concern is the sites getting a stigma attached to them like BP. If regular girls start viewing this as prostitution, then it will severely limit the amount of quality babies to choose from.[/QUOTE]I covered all this in an earlier email. When I mention North American bank transactions, everything is covered including Paypal, bitcoin exchanges, etc. I've watched a lot of changes even in the last couple of years as even things like bitcoin exchanges would no longer accept transactions unless they were funded with a US bank account, even when they were based overseas.

As far as USASG, aren't they funded by ad contracts rather than individual CC transactions? That's completely different -- when just writing an individual a check and throwing it in the mail is an option, anything is possible. That will never work for website membership, however.

I will be making a brief stop in Mumbai / Bombay, India and would appreciate any info on finding a quality out call escort.

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;2568922]I will be making a brief stop in Mumbai / Bombay, India and would appreciate any info on finding a quality out call escort.[/QUOTE]Here's your best bet:

[URL]http://internationalsexguide.info/[/URL]

If you want to find a girl only to spend time in the FC with you are you a John, a Sugar Daddy, or both?

Most SDs only blog about FC activity once the arrangement is set. I don't hear a lot about how amazing dinners are at Le Petit Rouge, the ballet, or the symphony. Or how much fun the lecture series was at the City Forum. We are in this for one reason.

But few of us want a true Pro in the Sugar Bowl-I certainly don't. There are Escort Sites that work fine for that. So if an SB has a proven association with escorting then we should report them to SA. But we should be cautious about over doing the outrage. Those who live in glass houses. Make sure there is a link from a search of cell# ,email, or picture to an escort ad or site.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2568936]If you want to find a girl only to spend time in the FC with you are you a John, a Sugar Daddy, or both? [/QUOTE]Categorizing men is more difficult and I'm not sure even worthwhile. Part of the problem is that everyone who reads this forum probably has one thing in common: if we had our way, we would go straight to the FC every time and then get up and leave once we're finished. Do any of us prefer to stick around and cuddle and listen to her tell us about her life? Yes I'm in an LTR and I do get something out of it that is beyond sex, as do many married men. Perhaps a lot of men are so satisfied with their partner they would never even be aware of this site we are posting to. But I think it's safe to say that for anyone on an SD site who is also a posting member here, the FC is probably pretty much the end game, for the most part.

Is that true of both johns and SDs? Sure. What makes one different from the other is whether they choose escorts or choose SBs. Then we are back to focusing on what makes a girl an SB versus a pro, and a thread with a subject line like this one, asking whether SBs are amateurs or not, clearly must not have any easy answers when the subject requires 10,000+ posts to figure it out.

This is where I fall back to my previously posted spectrum scale. I'd say if someone patronizes #0 and #1 type girls, he's a john plain and simple. If he's trying to flip #4's into #1 or #2 he's still playing the role of john. If he's looking for #4 and settles for an occasional #2 intentionally or unknowingly is he forever labeled a john? Hell #3's are some of my favorites -- I love going stripper hunting. Does that make me 50% SD and 50% stripper-monger? Like I said I don't see the point in labeling anyone on the male side of the equation.

I will give men the benefit of the doubt that if they want escorts, they should be smart enough to know it's going to be a hell of a lot easier to find what they are looking for on BP.

The story with the girls is different. When escorts see the SD sites as an extension of their marketing possibilities, it's a problem. If guys start patronizing this type of girl and paying her premium SD allowance when they could get her just as easily for a hundred bucks or so off BP, be in and out of the FC, then not only are they doing themselves an injustice but they are harming the hobby for the rest of us.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2568936]
Most SDs only blog about FC activity once the arrangement is set. I don't hear a lot about how amazing dinners are at Le Petit Rouge, the ballet, or the symphony. Or how much fun the lecture series was at the City Forum. We are in this for one reason.

But few of us want a true Pro in the Sugar Bowl-I certainly don't. There are Escort Sites that work fine for that. So if an SB has a proven association with escorting then we should report them to SA. But we should be cautious about over doing the outrage. Those who live in glass houses. Make sure there is a link from a search of cell# ,email, or picture to an escort ad or site.[/QUOTE]Keep in mind not all SDs blog. The folks that visit this thread represent only a very small portion of the SD population. This site has been around a long time, and I didn't even start reading it until a couple of years ago. A lot of people who are knee deep in pussy don't have the time to write about it or read about it.

If nothing else, pretty much everyone with a posting account on USASG (myself included) by very definition is going to be non-representative of the "true" sugar daddy -- the guy who looks only for #4's. So it's important to not begin thinking the SD world revolves around this thread. Not even close.

[QUOTE=DogSun;2568874]Going off-shores will keep the sites from getting shut down. Just take a look at our very own usasexguide which is hosted in Argentina I believe. So the only real trouble is if they run into trouble processing credit cards, kind of like we're seeing with BP and Mastercard / Visa. But this wouldn't be a death knell for these sites if it happened. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, if there's money to be made, someone will find a way. Whether it be Paypal, or some new startup that operates overseas if need be, the sugar sites will find a way to get paid, and some company will be more than happy to help them do so. My biggest concern is the sites getting a stigma attached to them like BP. If regular girls start viewing this as prostitution, then it will severely limit the amount of quality babies to choose from.[/QUOTE]Being that I work on the Internet for a living I can tell you without naming names, that the biggest names in my industry have things so convoluted and offshore that you can't even track down the owners of the companies where a lot of the people are doing the real work. And this is all due to poorly written government regulations that can easily be worked around with the right attorneys and is all perfectly legal. The end result is that the Internet labor force is continuing to move to many different foreign countries and is not coming back. And I am not talking about call centers, but highly skilled engineers. They are laughing at us. Because in the European countries they get paid the same and more than we do.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2568936]If you want to find a girl only to spend time in the FC with you are you a John, a Sugar Daddy, or both?

Most SDs only blog about FC activity once the arrangement is set. I don't hear a lot about how amazing dinners are at Le Petit Rouge, the ballet, or the symphony. Or how much fun the lecture series was at the City Forum. We are in this for one reason.

But few of us want a true Pro in the Sugar Bowl-I certainly don't. There are Escort Sites that work fine for that. So if an SB has a proven association with escorting then we should report them to SA. But we should be cautious about over doing the outrage. Those who live in glass houses. Make sure there is a link from a search of cell# ,email, or picture to an escort ad or site.[/QUOTE]Sorry, but truly a bad idea. Site owners throw those complaints straight into the trash. I did get one person thrown off SD4M, but only because they sent me like 50 emails asking for money, were obviously offshore and I had a record of all the messaging they did. And they had been on there for 4 years harassing people. But to turn in pros is like the pot calling the kettle black.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2569053]Being that I work on the Internet for a living I can tell you without naming names, that the biggest names in my industry have things so convoluted and offshore that you can't even track down the owners of the companies where a lot of the people are doing the real work. And this is all due to poorly written government regulations that can easily be worked around with the right attorneys and is all perfectly legal. The end result is that the Internet labor force is continuing to move to many different foreign countries and is not coming back. And I am not talking about call centers, but highly skilled engineers. They are laughing at us. Because in the European countries they get paid the same and more than we do.[/QUOTE]Believe me if the US government can shut down Megaupload, which was based in Hong Kong and run by folks who never set foot on US soil, and put the owner in jail in his country of residence (New Zealand) with a constant threat of extradition to the USA for trial, you better believe that no website in any country is safe.

And they didn't do this over human trafficking. They did it over simple file sharing and copyright laws. They weren't based in the US, they just passed network traffic through our servers and its game-fucking-over for them.

In terms of credentials, I've been involved in this sort of stuff since before Americans had ever heard the word Internet. Online and the legalities that drive it have been around since we first connected computers to phone lines, long before the world wide web was created.

I'm really not trying to be a dick here but I've given numerous examples that prove the "offshore" theory is just plain wrong. Allofmp3, silkroad, megaupload. They all prove my point in one way or another.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaupload

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2569134]Believe me if the US government can shut down Megaupload, which was based in Hong Kong and run by folks who never set foot on US soil, and put the owner in jail in his country of residence (New Zealand) with a constant threat of extradition to the USA for trial, you better believe that no website in any country is safe.

And they didn't do this over human trafficking. They did it over simple file sharing and copyright laws. They weren't based in the US, they just passed network traffic through our servers and its game-fucking-over for them.

In terms of credentials, I've been involved in this sort of stuff since before Americans had ever heard the word Internet. Online and the legalities that drive it have been around since we first connected computers to phone lines, long before the world wide web was created.

I'm really not trying to be a dick here but I've given numerous examples that prove the "offshore" theory is just plain wrong. Allofmp3, silkroad, megaupload. They all prove my point in one way or another.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaupload[/QUOTE]All those sites are what's referred to as egregious offenders. No dating site can stop the occasional pro from posting an ad. And even if a girl is a pro that doesn't mean she isn't entitled to a social life. Men paying women for their company is part of every cultures traditions. I just don't see a dating site, that is obviously not an escort site getting shut down. A BP may be a different story. Those sites you mention were violating so many laws as were the individual owners on a personal level, that you couldn't count the number of felonies they were committing. The SD sites and especially SA are run by a totally different crowd. The primary owner of SD4M was once run out of a business a number of years ago. The business was not illegal in any way, but his particular business practices were. And would have eventually forced any owner to close practicing similar tactics to defraud or abuse the telecom system. Just my 2 cents.

Now hey, what about that pussy?

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2569181]All those sites are what's referred to as egregious offenders. No dating site can stop the occasional pro from posting an ad. And even if a girl is a pro that doesn't mean she isn't entitled to a social life. Men paying women for their company is part of every cultures traditions. I just don't see a dating site, that is obviously not an escort site getting shut down. A BP may be a different story. Those sites you mention were violating so many laws as were the individual owners on a personal level, that you couldn't count the number of felonies they were committing. The SD sites and especially SA are run by a totally different crowd. The primary owner of SD4M was once run out of a business a number of years ago. The business was not illegal in any way, but his particular business practices were. And would have eventually forced any owner to close practicing similar tactics to defraud or abuse the telecom system. Just my 2 cents.

Now hey, what about that pussy?[/QUOTE]The SD sites aren't illegal, when used according to terms of service. Neither are nightclubs in most cities, but the cities can still choose to shut them down as a "public nuisance" if too much illegal activity is tied to the business. It's the same sort of risk. As I said before, it's not going to happen over the occasional misdemeanor transaction taking place, but something like a high profile case in the media (examples I used before are something like the Google exec / heroin death, or maybe someone gets caught trafficking some minor on one of the sites).

Allofmp3 wasn't breaking the law. Neither was megaupload. Their users were. Its an almost perfect analogy.

And speaking of pussy. I while back I said I might decide to go an alternate route and pay $$ a date (here and there), but then just date a little less. I just made my first $$ offer today, to this girl, based off her message to me that a $ just wasn't going to cut it.

I would never normally do this, but since being with my ATF who is 6' tall, I have come to appreciate the kinetic dynamics of our love making. This girl is close to 6 feet as well.

Anyway, she just accepted my offer of a "no sex, no money" date to see if we click.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2569134]
And they didn't do this over human trafficking. They did it over simple file sharing and copyright laws. [/QUOTE]I know I should stay out of this, BUT-"simple file sharing and copyright laws" are in effect taking hundreds of millions of dollars OUT of the pockets of people in the entertainment industry that have the motivation, the contacts, the money, and the legal backing to influence the government to take action. The only motivation of the government to commit all the might of the Federal machine to shutting down SA, SD4 M or others are headlines during an election cycle. The history of politicians grandstanding against vice goes back as long as we've had a government, is cyclical in nature, and will probably never end. That being said, if there is big money out there on one side of this issue, it is on the side of the internet services that are filling a market. Something like this is GOING to exist in one form or another. Can the government shut down SD4 M? Absolutely. Is the government going to eliminate men with means' desire for the company of younger women or the desire of those women to have more than they can get otherwise? Never.

Now, as a smart guy said, how about that pussy?

[QUOTE=Dsprdo;2569244]Can the government shut down SD4 M? Absolutely. Is the government going to eliminate men with means' desire for the company of younger women or the desire of those women to have more than they can get otherwise? Never.
[/QUOTE]As I said in an earlier message, sugar daddying was around before the websites and would be around after. The negative side effect however would be that if the websites are pushed underground or if there is a stigma of illegality created around it in the media, there is a certain category of girls that will no longer use those sites. Unfortunately that category of girls are the best kind.

The SD sites would continue to popup under different names and find ways to continue operating, but if they aren't getting basically promoted on the Dr. Phil show and similar, we are not going to benefit from the same level of popularity.

Its not the willingness of the men to seek out the hobby that would fade -- the problem is all the young ladies that would be chased away by a stigma that there is something wrong / illegal with the hobby.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2569339]

Its not the willingness of the men to seek out the hobby that would fade -- the problem is all the young ladies that would be chased away by a stigma that there is something wrong / illegal with the hobby.[/QUOTE]Societal norms do change over time, I agree. Don't think that women's desire to trade on their attractiveness to men has changed since the beginning of time, and doubt that it ever will, based on empirical evidence. A generalization that some women will hate, I know, but I'm pretty confident that position is backed by a myriad of day to day examples.

So I contacted a college student a couple of weeks ago who had the usual profile about looking for LTR with a SD to help out with tuition. Her reply was only for me to send her a text. A google search turned up her many ads and pics.

I didn't reply as I wasn't interested in going that route. Last night she wrote back why I had contacted her. So you explained why. She replied that she wasn't an escort and wanted to know why I thought that. After sending her the link I got off of google, she replied back, "Oh ok but how did you find that as all I get is nothing like that when I look up my phone number". After I told her how to search for her ads, she said thanks and call me if I change my mind.

I don't have anything against escorts as I've used them before but I prefer to know upfront. Just started meeting another college student who is probably utr but at least we did a m&g and a couple of dinners before hitting the fc.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2569233]And speaking of pussy. I while back I said I might decide to go an alternate route and pay $$ a date (here and there), but then just date a little less. I just made my first $$ offer today, to this girl, based off her message to me that a $ just wasn't going to cut it.

I would never normally do this, but since being with my ATF who is 6' tall, I have come to appreciate the kinetic dynamics of our love making. This girl is close to 6 feet as well.

Anyway, she just accepted my offer of a "no sex, no money" date to see if we click.[/QUOTE]And here is a front shot of the aforementioned 6 foot girl. After sleeping on it. I am just not sure. But I guess I can meet her for free and see what happens.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2568482]My personal opinion -Yes- each to his own. A label is just that but it is good to know in your own mind how to process your activities. Does that make us Johns if we see 1 SB? Probably. If a girl is collecting men to pay her and is willing to have sex to do it then she is a pro by definition. The only way to avoid that definition is the existence of a relationship that is not solely dependent on a sex / money dynamic. Most SBs would not see any of us unless they were getting paid. And we would not pay them without the expectation of sex. An exception to that rule is the true IRL bar / dating site pickup. I know my SBs "like" me and many are thrilled with the sex, but I have yet had one offer to drop the allowance. I know it happens because some of you report it, but those girls see some of you as a potential IRL "catch".

For those of you who see Escorts you know the difference in mentality between a naive college girl wanting to pay for her tuition and taking a dick for the effort vs a working Pro with a Pimp, website, agency, etc. The SB college girl is just starting on that slippery slope to being a Pro. It isn't long before she sees how easy it is to bang some geeze and pocket an easy $$$ ,then another and another. Same with us guys. If I had the time and $ I would see a different SB every day ala Hollywood in his prime. I want to catch the SB at the naive stage where she hasn't acquired the hooker mentality, and actually can still respond emotionally and actually enjoy the ride.[/QUOTE]Well said. It is a fine line. I was thinking along the lines of your second paragraph type of SB. I too like that type of SB. In fact my senior to be at a university is like that, as she took her profile down a couple of months ago.

[QUOTE=TravelinSD;2568088]LOL! Last week for only the 2nd time I ended a date as soon as the girl got in the car. This one described herself as "average". I should have guessed when her profile had only face shots and the one private pic she was in very loose clothing. As she came walking out to the car she was obviously way past "a few extra pounds" and solidly into "overweight". She got in the car and I told her I was sorry, but this just wasn't going to work. She did take it fairly well.

Good Hunting!

Travelin.[/QUOTE]I had two of those early this year. They qualified as a few extra pounds for sure.

[QUOTE=Dsprdo;2569403]Societal norms do change over time, I agree. Don't think that women's desire to trade on their attractiveness to men has changed since the beginning of time, and doubt that it ever will, based on empirical evidence. A generalization that some women will hate, I know, but I'm pretty confident that position is backed by a myriad of day to day examples.[/QUOTE]I mentioned earlier in this discussion that the worlds oldest profession will never go away.

What would be in jeopardy, however, of diminishing is the simple convenience of meeting good clean college aged babes by simply signing up for a website. If it is not dead-simple and convenient, free of legal risk and social stigma for them, the numbers would drop off exponentially and we'd mostly be dealing with escorts and BP skanks.

Trust me when I say SBs can still be found on Match/POF etc all day long. It's just a LOT more work to do so with much less to choose from.

Is the Trumpster rejuvenating the American spirit? Something is going on, on the Internet. Online sales have jumped dramatically in the last 5 weeks (in the slowest month of the year except August). This directly impacts my ability to play in the bowl. And part of my reason for having the confidence to offer $$ to that model below. I hope this keeps up, because my game is way up even from a couple years ago. So if my paycheck goes up proportionately, I could go on an awesome sugar run till the end of the year.

Smiley Face.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2569724]Is the Trumpster rejuvenating the American spirit? Something is going on, on the Internet. Online sales have jumped dramatically in the last 5 weeks (in the slowest month of the year except August). This directly impacts my ability to play in the bowl. And part of my reason for having the confidence to offer $$ to that model below. I hope this keeps up, because my game is way up even from a couple years ago. So if my paycheck goes up proportionately, I could go on an awesome sugar run till the end of the year.

Smiley Face.[/QUOTE]I guess online sales of what would be the salient question. Sometimes a simple media trend can cause a run on anything. Just a couple of weeks ago, anyone selling confederate flags was pretty much an overnight success as folks started stockpiling them. The economy overall is in good shape though. Folks can say what they want about Obama but I'll take this over the Bush era anyday.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2569739]I guess online sales of what would be the salient question. Sometimes a simple media trend can cause a run on anything. Just a couple of weeks ago, anyone selling confederate flags was pretty much an overnight success as folks started stockpiling them. The economy overall is in good shape though. Folks can say what they want about Obama but I'll take this over the Bush era anyday.[/QUOTE]Everything is up. Health related stuff, stuff for seniors (always a good sign as they have the tightest wads), dating sites, cosmetic surgery, college enrollment. All across the board really. An interesting slight down trend is coupon cutting (although it is still very popular). People are just being less paranoid about spending money.

And lol.. I did sell a ton of flags this summer. As far as politics I was literally printing money under bush (and sugaring about 20k a month including alimony), under obama I actually thought I might go out of business (which is how I got started on my $ plan and dropped the alimony to 1k a month). Kind of like Hannity's penny plan on steroids.

Because before obama I was paying $$$+ daily on girls, no problem. People are feeling the winds of change. Hope is replacing fear again. There is huge pent up buyer demand. Vacation spending is going to be massive this month. As it always is, just more than the last few years. This xmas should be insane. Watch car sales start to creep up again. Hasn't happened yet but it will next year I think. Cars sales are a good indicator. High end sales are already up. And inexpensive cars have been doing well for a while. When the middle priced cars start selling again you know for sure the economy is rising.

Shit, I was spending 7k a month on my daughter alone. I cut that to 2k. Since the X Wifey and my daughter are now stabilized at about 3k a month total, this would allow any extra money to go straight to savings and sugaring. A happy prospect for sure. Now if I can only get my health back up so I can drive normally again, this could be a fun 3rd and 4th quarter. its a lot tougher and more expensive when the girl has to always drive or transport over to me. One reason I hooked up with the car-less virgin was her close proximity to my house.

I have noticed lately there are lots of ads that have the privacy warning that I first saw on (and associate with) AFF, also read something by a lady who was not on SA, but her pic / profile was, also profiles that have no text or text written by some who don't have a command of the English language. I have also received messages from SB's who go from local to 200-2000 miles away a few days after writing. There is a newish SB thread from cincy that goes into a fair amount of detail about dubious profiles. I'm in central Va. And have had great luck, but have not renewed for a while due to lack of free time. I see profiles that have me ready to pull the trigger then some of this weirdness goes on.

Oh well, I'm always optimistic so may pay soon. Any feedback on local girls appreciated (Krill are you out there?) , Ideally I need a young lady with a great head game who can host me during the day as I have a so. Thanks, J.

Just decided to check on my ATF's FB and what do I see. Her talking about some guy she just broke up with after a 4 month fling. I knew she was seeing someone, as I posted that one day some dude came to her house and saw me there in my undies and literally socked her. These girls all know I work on the internet and so even if their shit is private I am going to find a way to hack it. Yet they continue to post stuff they know I am not going to like, as if I dont see every word and pic they post. They really are not thinking. I could use this as an excuse to drop my ATF today if I wanted to. But she is a real life black barbie fucking machine, so for now I am going to keep seeing her when I can. But the hunt is on.

It makes me feel a little sad. But hey, they all know I fuck any hot black girl I can get, so I guess I can't expect everything in return. Plus my ATF is a booty call on steroids and she knows that (I have fucked her over 70 times). We don't talk about it a lot, but it's in the air. I guess if you fuck a girl 70 times and have never taken her out even one time, she is gonna get the memo.

My only real concern is catching something I don't want. I had that scare already 3 times in the last year. I started wearing condoms again here and there unless I am feeling really confident. I get tested every 2 months and have never had a positive test for anything in my entire life (just a miracle I guess). But my trust level is going down. I even tell my girls, just tell me if you are fucking other ppl so I can make an informed decision. I mean I am telling them when I do most of the time. No wonder my virgin had a brain blowout.

Shit, a girl I was dating last year got something, but lucky for me she only gave it to (or got it from) her IRL BF and not me. LOL. But I am definitely on a more safe and slower track (no pun intended) than i was before. And props to all the guys and their info/intel. It has really helped me formulate my plans overall.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2569839]Just decided to check on my ATF's FB and what do I see. Her talking about some guy she just broke up with after a 4 month fling. I knew she was seeing someone, as I posted that one day some dude came to her house and saw me there in my undies and literally socked her. These girls all know I work on the internet and so even if their shit is private I am going to find a way to hack it. Yet they continue to post stuff they know I am not going to like, as if I dont see every word and pic they post. They really are not thinking. I could use this as an excuse to drop my ATF today if I wanted to. But she is a real life black barbie fucking machine, so for now I am going to keep seeing her when I can. But the hunt is on.
[/QUOTE]There's an old saying, if you ask someone how many sex partners they currently have, take a guy's number and divide by 3 and take a girl's number and multiply by 3. For sugar babies there's an extra multiplier of 2-4 depending on a number of factors. Basically if any of them tell you you're the only one they're banging, be extra afraid. At least the semi-honest ones that tell you some of the other shit that's going on can be partially trusted -- rest assured there's more they aren't telling you.

I worry about STDs too. Not so much the effects on myself of getting one as much as being concerned that if I did get one and gave it to the GF, how could I explain that? All of my caution in not getting caught goes out the window due to something I can't even see coming (no pun intended).

Technically I could avoid it with condoms but since I hate condoms I'm better off to just be prepared. The scariest part is looking back at all the unprotected sex I've had, and wondering how on hell I've made it this far without catching something? Luck cannot go on forever, and as we get older our immune system gets less effective at resisting these things. An escort with BBBJCIM is a possible solution and might minimize risk but I'm not into that scene and it doesn't seem like a good plan if STD avoidance is the goal. Some of the UTR type SBs might be agreeable to oral sex only, but I think most of the SB's I've known would be horrified if I told them to just blow me for the sugar.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2569967]Technically I could avoid it with condoms but since I hate condoms I'm better off to just be prepared..[/QUOTE]For years I did 100% condoms (the result of 18 years of unexpected child support from a one-nighter). Last year I got fixed and it has been wonderful. I am trying to be smart, but I have resolved to take the chances on catching something without. Occasionally I see somone that gives me concern and I'll suit up but mostly no. Intellectually I know the "good girls" are just as likely as anyone else to pass something along but at least I can rationalize a bit. Connecting back to the UTR discussion I have just been messaging with someone that definitely communicates like a pro, I'm probably going to try it out a couple of times, but that will be one that I don my rain suit for. She says she's not a pro, has only had a couple of SD's, is married, and would be willing to go BB after she's "comfortable" with me. Says she has a high sex drive and it's not being quenched at home.

I mostly (like 90% of the time), date black women. So my respect for them is high, but my concerns are real.

As yours should be too for any race girl. Read these articles.

[URL]http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/2010/hsv2pressrelease.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thehelpernewsletter.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=199:are-black-women-now-wearing-the-scarlett-h&catid=172:sexual-health&Itemid=233[/URL]

If you have never tested positive for HSV2 (herpes) that's a good thing.

All STD's can be cured except HIV and HSV.

Planned Parenthood tests for everything for free, except HSV2.

Thats an $80 test at a private clinic. Here is a link to find a nearby location.

[URL]https://www.stdcheck.com/?pid=9030952&iid=&gclid=CLuX2PewhscCFURcfgodT3cJWQ[/URL]

Be safe and sound.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2570033]I mostly (like 90% of the time), date black women. So my respect for them is high, but my concerns are real.

As yours should be too for any race girl. Read these articles.

[URL]http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/2010/hsv2pressrelease.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thehelpernewsletter.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=199:are-black-women-now-wearing-the-scarlett-h&catid=172:sexual-health&Itemid=233[/URL]

If you have never tested positive for HSV2 (herpes) that's a good thing.

All STD's can be cured except HIV and HSV.

Planned Parenthood tests for everything for free, except HSV2.

Thats an $80 test at a private clinic. Here is a link to find a nearby location.

[URL]https://www.stdcheck.com/?pid=9030952&iid=&gclid=CLuX2PewhscCFURcfgodT3cJWQ[/URL]

Be safe and sound.[/QUOTE]I once had a fuckbuddy who (after we had stopped fucking) informed me that she had a comprehensive health screening and tested positive for HSV2. She was depressed and confused (because she said she had never had an outbreak). When she told me it had been a while since we fucked and I had no reason to believe I had been infected. I held her in high regard for telling me, she didn't have to. There was a small amount of question in my mind as to whether she might be lying about the result, just as a way to get a reaction out of me and / or punish me for not really having time for ongoing fuck activities. Or maybe she had been tested positive long before meeting me and just now decided to tell me about it? I decided not to overanalyze it and give her the benefit of the doubt that she was being honest and told me as soon as she knew. She was a pretty level headed person so it was the best perspective to take based on what I knew about her personality. I got tested later and came up negative. I don't speak to her any more but I hope she is still free and clear of any outbreaks.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2569739]I guess online sales of what would be the salient question. Sometimes a simple media trend can cause a run on anything. Just a couple of weeks ago, anyone selling confederate flags was pretty much an overnight success as folks started stockpiling them. The economy overall is in good shape though. Folks can say what they want about Obama but I'll take this over the Bush era anyday.[/QUOTE]Your joking, right?

The virgin is back. Literally in my house. I will decide by tomorrow if she can stay more than one night. Too many new POTS showing an interest. Including a day one signee on SA, latina, cute, 5'2" and small.

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2568067]An update from my weekend.

The Asian I met went very well. We sat for a few hours talking on a patio at a bar. She is a Phillipino Asian. 9 face, 8 body, 9 intellect. Her Asian features turned many a head, but it was her intellect that turned me on. We met yesterday and set up another meeting for Wednesday that ultimately got moved to today. We hit the FC and it was pretty prime. We spent a few hours in the city first, because we click so well we both enjoy each other's company. Kind of an old soul as she is into collecting vinyl records, 1980 sports cars, and is turned off by social ineptness, and a daddy not being able to distinguish between "your" and "you're" LOL (her words). I don't sense the possessiveness of this Asian as has been discussed earlier in this thread. She might be a keeper.

The 28 year old 5'5" naked 10 body. High drama as she couldn't meet this past Friday as she had car issues of it being repossessed and working on getting it back, then Saturday she went to Tennessee to be with her father that died that day, then Sunday after getting her car back on Friday it broke down in TN. Today she was deathly sick. Normally I would move on, but that little 10 body is worth being patient for. I want to do this one in the worst way. I would give her a score of 10/9/5.

The 21 year old 5'4" I was supposed to meet on Saturday. She is having fear issues of being new to the site, but seems like a really nice young woman. I will also be patient with this one as her little body is another 10 killer for me. I like this one's personality. Kind of a clean girl who needs a daddy to help her break through the barrier. I would give her a score of 10/9. I can't give the last score because I haven't talked to her enough to have a score in that area. She has been silent since Saturday.

That left me with a zero for Friday night with the 28 yo, and not being able to hook up with her for Saturday and the 21 yo on Friday, so I set up a FC with my regular senior to be university student for Saturday. At the same time I set up a new appointment with a 31 year old 5'2" slim POT (pic below) I started talking to for Sunday in case the Asian flaked on me. She didn't and I then had two M& G that day. The 31 year old turned out to look much better than her pictures and more petite than her picture looked. Connected well over dinner and talked for maybe three hours. We set up a FC session for tomorrow.

I'm still working on that 28 yo. Tomorrow's out since I'm seeing the 31 yo and I have too much going on at work during the day with meetings to attend, so I'm hoping to see her on Wednesday. If I get that 28 yo in the sack she is going to pay from daddy for putting daddy off for so long.[/QUOTE]An update from my update this past Monday.

I'm contemplating whether to keep the Asian. Maybe yes maybe no due to others I'm waiting to rate, but for the sake of discussion she's on my keeper list.

The 28 year old. We are supposed to spend this coming weekend together. I want to turn her inside out. Her personality arouses the heck out of me.

The 21 year old is still silent, so I sent her a text of understanding her feelings and am open to talk when she is ready. That little body is worth it, plus I like her personality.

The 31 year old. I was with her last night and we hit the FC. She performs well. A petite spinner that I like. Takes care of herself and looks better in person than her pics. I told her she needed to use a different camera, as her pics make her look more thick then she really is. I'm keeping her for now. She like to talk politics, which can be up my alley if I let it. She likes it so we debate pretty well. On a side note she has potential of being a wacko. I can only see this because of my years of seasoning and reading people, but if things are kept on the down low I'll be happy doing her.

On another side note. The Masters Asian student I saw months ago when I first played in the bowl I contacted her. I cut off contact several months ago when discovering this thread I found I was overpaying LOL. So I didn't think she would go for it, so I didn't even broach the subject. I decided to text her last week. I don't know why, but I thought what the heck I'll see if she'll go for my new $150 rate. She replied happy and missing me. Probably so since I was paying her $400. She replied she couldn't go as low as 150, but would for $300. I told her I'd think about it. I texted her back today and told her that thanks, but I'll pass and wish her well. She text back saying she would go down to $200 if I came down today (a 1 1/2 hour drive). Now she is coming close to my wheel house, but I told her that as much as that was tempting I couldn't because I had too much work in the office at the time. She then replied then "come soon" and went on to tell me she hasn't seen anyone else. Like I believe that LOL. OR she likes my performance in the FC. She must have had eight to ten orgasms that day. Back then I think she was telling the truth about not having sex for many months. But she is an Asian from China and I do like the Asian spinners, so we'll see. I wouldn't be able to see her till next week anyway due to my schedule and other babies I have lined up right now. Damn I'm having a good time.

I'm really looking at redoing my line up. The Asian Masters student I cut loose months ago. The current senior to be I'm looking to replace. My hope is the 28 year old ends up in my lineup and one other. I'd like to park my dick with just two for a while.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2570398]The virgin is back. Literally in my house. I will decide by tomorrow if she can stay more than one night. Too many new POTS showing an interest. Including a day one signee on SA, latina, cute, 5'2" and small.[/QUOTE]Ha my money is on you keeping the virgin.

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2570350]Your joking, right?[/QUOTE]No, I wasn't joking. And, I didn't mean for my own benefit. In my line of work I can make money simply by shifting my focus to whatever industry is benefitting from current policy. In terms of my own income or tax situation it really matters little whether Bush or Obama is in office. I was referring to the economy overall and what it means to most people.

A lot of people express a political preference based on how their own personal situation is affected. My preferences are not shaped by such a narrow focus. There is fact and there is opinion. Our economy is in better shape, that much cannot be denied.

Even still that's getting pretty off topic. What might be an interesting topic is to discuss how the economy affects SB activity. I've always heard that the "pro" market gets better in tough economic times (makes sense to me). Is the same true for SBs? When unemployment is down, are they less likely to seek additional funding sources? I'm guessing their behavior is fairly inelastic, because it is fueled more by the desire for nice things and the lower income that naturally comes with youth (regardless of the state of the economy).

For the most part these are wonderful ladies who bring us much joy, and they should be appreciated, respected, and looked out for.

If they are in an area not served by PP, there are also free clinics in many cities (esp. Those with a Med School) as well as most every town having a local health department where a wide range of services are free. I think there are 20 health clinics for every PP here in Va, so they might be helpful in a rural area not served by PP.

Let's all keep each other healthy and safe! J.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2569739]I guess online sales of what would be the salient question. Sometimes a simple media trend can cause a run on anything. Just a couple of weeks ago, anyone selling confederate flags was pretty much an overnight success as folks started stockpiling them. The economy overall is in good shape though. Folks can say what they want about Obama but I'll take this over the Bush era anyday.[/QUOTE]Ditto! I've made way more money with Obama in charge that I ever did with Bush.

So how did you find her ads?

Just curious, maybe you know a way I don't?

[QUOTE=ToeLover57;2569558] ..she replied back, "Oh ok but how did you find that as all I get is nothing like that when I look up my phone number". After I told her how to search for her ads, she said thanks and call me if I change my mind.

I don't have anything against escorts as I've used them before but I prefer to know upfront. Just started meeting another college student who is probably utr but at least we did a m&g and a couple of dinners before hitting the fc.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2570425]Ha my money is on you keeping the virgin.[/QUOTE]Well for now we agreed that I can have some fun, but no fucking. I also do not have to pay her anymore except for food. So that's maybe .2 a day. She eats almost nothing. And I can also fuck anyone I want and she will leave the house for me to be able to do that.

I told her I would (and I will) wear a condom for the next 10 days in case she changes her mind about the fucking. So I have given her permission to stay here for 10 days. I need to court this girl if that's even possible. But due to being on the hunt and not having anything too regular right now (even my ATF is at once a week lately) I am happy she is here.

She does have me convinced that she is from a middle class family (her dad is a lawyer). And he is sending her money to stay out here for the summer. Maybe longer. I told her I am open to a real relationship if she is. Meaning if she steps up, she can stay here indefinitely. So 10 days and counting. I really don't think it's going to work, but she is a lot of fun to be around in every other way. But pussy always has to come first. Since I have never attempted anything close to this, it's a calculated risk. But my gut tells me after the 10 days it will be over.

Obviously she has some kind of cover story. I am sure her parents would be less than happy if they knew what was really going on with their little angel on her summer vaca.