"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=Donwhite;2540368]How do you all deal with potential sbs that ask to see your facebook page or proof of who you are? I had one asked me today and I said that I wasn't comfortable giving out my personal information like where I work and relatives info etc. Then she said for a picture of my driver's license. I said no thank you and good luck to you. It was a shame, because she was hot and I had even video chatted with her. I just don't want anyone coming to my place of work or trying to get in touch with my relatives and coworkers.[/QUOTE]I'd do it but black out all of my information except my picture and first name, which is all they get from my profile and discussions with me anyway. Some of you guys don't do pictures or real names so that wouldn't work for you. Just make sure you follow the usual rules with providing pictures: Remove EXIF data and take a screenshot of the picture you want to use, then use that screenshot as the picture you provide. Prevents someone from photoshopping your blacked out information and getting the real info below it and EXIF data prevents giving anyone information they shouldn't have (phone info, GPS location, picture date / time taken, etc).

[QUOTE=Donwhite;2540368]How do you all deal with potential sbs that ask to see your facebook page or proof of who you are? I had one asked me today and I said that I wasn't comfortable giving out my personal information like where I work and relatives info etc. Then she said for a picture of my driver's license. I said no thank you and good luck to you. It was a shame, because she was hot and I had even video chatted with her. I just don't want anyone coming to my place of work or trying to get in touch with my relatives and coworkers.[/QUOTE]You don't deal with it. You move on to the next one. Think with the big head.

[QUOTE=Donwhite;2540368]How do you all deal with potential sbs that ask to see your facebook page or proof of who you are? I had one asked me today and I said that I wasn't comfortable giving out my personal information like where I work and relatives info etc. Then she said for a picture of my driver's license. I said no thank you and good luck to you. It was a shame, because she was hot and I had even video chatted with her. I just don't want anyone coming to my place of work or trying to get in touch with my relatives and coworkers.[/QUOTE]Given the number of screwballs out there, some women are nervous about going into a hotel alone with someone they don't know. It's a risk for them.

So, the first question would be whether this happens to you a lot? If so, maybe you are giving off some vibrations that are setting them off.

The next question is whether or not the POT asking is someone special or not? If she is, then you may have to spend time enough for her to feel secure with you.

The next question is whether she is prepared to share her information with you. If she wants your details, but won't divulge hers, that's a red flag, if she will, that's probably her nervousness speaking.

I've agreed to do it once, but when it came to the point, she forgot to ask. So, I figure, you can always agree, if she is who you are looking for, have a m&g, most likely she won't ask IF you seem ok, and if she does, you can pull out just like you would if anything else didn't suit you.

Friday. Got flaked on.

Saturday. Saw my ATF for the 65th time. Still in the honeymoon phase after 10 months.

Currently working 5 POTS and 10 pre-POTS.

Which is in the south eastern US. $640 for the procedure + $125 if you opt for pre-op consultation. Shop around brother and get the self-insured / cash price way different from prices quoted to insurance carriers and their patients.

[QUOTE=FTP1999;2536361]Good reminder.

Oh Lord, I wish I were clipped.

I will get so much raw pussy. I have a 19-year old now that I know would give it to me.

Getting clipped without insurance is not cheap, as far as I know. Is it?[/QUOTE]

This almost x porn star just agreed to come visit me. She seems really friendly. Just a soft intro meeting. In the FC but no guarantee of anything more than HJ and some body worship. Still worth it just to see what happens. 33 and 5' 1" latina.

I am planning on getting it when the family is out of town for a few days in the coming weeks and I will be by myself. Hope to not have any sign of it by the time they return. Fingers crossed!

[QUOTE=Jay101;2538709]Thanks for the reports Craig's is a bust, which site is more productive?

Also can one get clipped in secret. Thanks for your time.[/QUOTE]

I will be going to a guy who specializes in it. His practice is solely in vasectomy and its reversal. I think anyone considering it should pick someone who does a lot of these a physician who is otherwise a good urologist / surgeon may perform this procedure only occasionally and hence may not be the best person to do it.

[QUOTE=TravelinSD;2539390]There's been a lot of discussion about vasectomies lately, so I thought I'd relate my recent and on-going experience.

I know this procedure is generally a simple office procedure for the large majority of people. Not to scare anyone, but I'm still going through the vasectomy from hell. I went to the urologist I've been seeing for a few years for my prostrate exams. He has best of the city awards all over the walls. During the procedure he mentioned several doctors who he's done the procedure on. The price was $800.

Things went horribly wrong. A day after the procedure my left scrotum swelled to the size of a grapefruit. By the time I got to his office Monday morning it was more like cantaloupe sized. I had two business trips planned. On his OK I made it through those with much pain and discomfort. When I returned I went through an outpatient surgery where he made an incision in my scrotum to clean out the hemorrhage. A little over a week later I'm down to the size of a nectarine.

The killer is that I had a $6300 deductible on my insurance, so my $800 vasectomy is going to end up costing me over $4 k.

I'm lucky in that I'm divorced, but for you married guys trying to do this on the sly, just be aware that it's not always a simple procedure. The real killer is that I've missed out on 3 pots during this time, LOL.

Good Hunting,

Travelin.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2541229]This almost x porn star just agreed to come visit me. She seems really friendly. Just a soft intro meeting. In the FC but no guarantee of anything more than HJ and some body worship. Still worth it just to see what happens. 33 and 5' 1" latina.[/QUOTE]HG,

If she doesn't want you send her to me LOL.

Hope all is well in Bollywood.

PC out.

Back in 2008 mine was $500.

I'll be in your neck of the woods the first week of August. I hope we don't cross our girls or I guess it doesn't matter. I'm reaching out in Burbank, Glendale, and Pasadena.

Back in the bowl and I've a question.

How does messaging work for non-premium female members?

I keep getting lots of pic requests, and when I reply with "I'd prefer to chat a bit first" I get no response. Are the women limited in the number of messages or something?

[QUOTE=Pcpc1688;2541309]HG,

If she doesn't want you send her to me LOL.

Hope all is well in Bollywood.

PC out.[/QUOTE]We already got a for sure date. I,ll update after the meet.

How much is vasectomy with insurance? Any idea?

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;2541074]Which is in the south eastern US. $640 for the procedure + $125 if you opt for pre-op consultation. Shop around brother and get the self-insured / cash price way different from prices quoted to insurance carriers and their patients.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=PghGuy2005;2541288]I will be going to a guy who specializes in it. His practice is solely in vasectomy and its reversal. I think anyone considering it should pick someone who does a lot of these a physician who is otherwise a good urologist / surgeon may perform this procedure only occasionally and hence may not be the best person to do it.[/QUOTE]I second PghGuy's recommendation to see someone who specializes in Vasectomies. I went to my Urologist who, after a painful procedure, confided it had been quite a while since he had done a snip. However I was otherwise quite lucky as I had minimal pain and swelling after the procedure. PghGuy, certainly none of my business but, if there is any way to get the procedure done with your spouses knowledge I would try that avenue. If something goes wrong and she finds out after the fact there may be much worse fallout.

Ok, so met my 19 yo UTR who wanted me to go unprotected. On the one hand, I know it's a stupid request fraught with peril but the more I thought about it, I don't think it was a pregnancy trap. I hadn't seen her in a couple months, she could have easily told me she had started the pill, got the depo shot, or IUD. But she didn't say any of that. So, I sort of obliged, went hat practically the whole time, took it off, and ultimately left everything (hopefully) on her back. Can't say I felt great about it afterwards but not overall worried about it. Strangely enough, the whole thing just sort of took some of the fun out of it. I probably will see her again at some point because she is convenient and I like her body a lot, but my feelings toward her have changed a bit.

So I was hoping for another opportunity on Friday but alas, too much crap to do. Sometimes being a responsible adult holds us back. So turned my concentration to Sunday, Monday, Tuesday.

Sunday, tried to line up with 31 MILF. She texts back but when I lay out my proposal to get together, silence for like 6 hours. Then she says she is going thru a lot and maybe Monday is better. Now this chick knows how hard it is for me to see her, and she fails to seize the opportunities when given. I have not responded because of other POTs.

So I turn attention to stripper turn SB, says she is 19, mixed, but most would think she was white if saw her out. Cute enough, body decent but not as good as you would think a stripper should have. Maybe that is why is having to go SB route. So text her for Sunday. She lacks transportation so make more work and time for me so maybe I lack enthusiasm. She asks what time can I pick her up. I say 830. She texts back some surprised remark that I didn't understand and asked for clarification. She takes another hour to text back. Which was her loss and my game because.

While figuring out what the girl above is meaning, I text 20 yo white girl who I have talked to sporadically over the last few months. Seem super sweet, almost too nice that I question whether it's just an act. Her pics are so so, sort of a quirky girl which I usually like, not sure of what body is laying underneath. So after a few texts, she agrees to drive out to me, about 40 miles, all she asks for is some gas money. I assure I will give her gas money and then some. SHe is a little late leaving to come to me, I worry that she is going to flake. But no worries, arrives at designated meeting area, and the kicker is she was much cuter in person than her pics. Body was ok, not fat, maybe a few extra pounds, but overall I liked her look (but granted probably on lot on this board would not rate as high as me, but I like girls who are different).

And it turns out she is as nice in person as on the phone. We talk easily, eat, chit chat some more. Then I ask if I can kiss her. She says yes, and I really wasn't intending to get down to fornication just then, but she seemed like she was ready. So we did, and then we did again, and again. This girl was really into it and seems a little bit kinky. Overall, she spent over 3 hours with me, probably 2 hours of that time either naked or just in panties. It was quite a good time and exceeded all expectations.

So far Monday, I thought I had this 24 yo AA girl who I have talked to forever, but we never get together. Thought she was on board for Monday, in fact she said "I am down for it". But when I try to pinpoint a time, she suddenly goes silent. When she resurfaces, she says she can't stay too late. Well, ok, ,what time do you want picked up and dropped back off. No reply. Then she once again reiterates her commitment to Monday. I say great, what time? Then she says her phone goes off at midnight. I am so tired of this bullshit, so I don't respond.

But all is not lost for Monday, my 19 who I met last Summer originally said she was good to come see me on Tuesday. Now she has lofty expectations and she also suggested there might be limited physical possibilities. I told that was ok because I have a soft spot for this chick and she is extremely hot in my book so I am pretty cool just hanging and making out, see where it leads. She doesn't really have any type of permanent family structure, I just sort of feel bad for her. But anyway, she tells me today she thought we agreed to meet pretty far away from me to take her shopping. I said no, I thought she was coming to me, I could still take her to do a little shopping. She seems a little argumentive about it, so I just aks her, do you not want to end up at my house because you think I might expect too much from you. She texts back that I already told her that I don't want to be like that with her. I say, to be honest, I do, but of course if she doesn't, I totally respect that and won't push it. She then seems to suggest that as she gets what she wants, I will get what I want, but I am not totally clear on that. But I will see it through either way because I like this chic and I don't mind giving her some money. I know, not a "smart" financial move, but I like interesting memories. But anyway, she may come see me on Monday instead.

So a I see a new profile from an 18 year old Hawaiian spinner. She just posted yesterday. And she just graduated H.S. a month or so ago. She claimed her rich parents said she could come to L.A. just to see if she liked it and are shipping her car over shortly. Some quick messaging on line and I finally start txtin her. After 2 non stop hours she says lets just have a talking date. I say OK and another hour of txting gets to maybe we could just have oral. Finally another hour plus goes by and she says to come get her. By the time we get to my place its 10.30. No reason to waste time and we get right to the fun. As we just get naked in bed she says "BTW I,m a virgin for real". I'm like ok because with your insanely fresh and perfect body I could give a shit. She claimed she had never even been fingered before by a guy.

I will admit even getting one finger all the way in there comfortably took about 10 minutes. Eventually I had 2 in there and that probably took about another 20 minutes. Finally she says try putting your dick in. After about another 20 minutes it might have gone all they way in and I just stopped to let her feel it. Finally she said lets break and it really hurt, but she was pretty proud of herself for getting that far.

After about a 10 minute break we spent the next hour plus on her practicing her dick, ball handling and prostate massage skills. And her proper way of speaking to me. She had pretty decent kissing skills that improved dramatically by the end. All told a full two and half hours in the FC. As a first date it was a 9 and she was an easy 8 all around. As I was dropping her off I gave her the $ and she said wasn't it $$/ She pushed for a moment but one thing for sure nobody is more clear on the compensation than me. She saw i had another twenty on me so I gave it to her.

If I was to lose her over this I would be extremely disappointed. But I don't think that's the case. I,ll know for sure by tomorrow nite. She was 5,4" about 110 at most. Tan skin and smelled great. She also said she never had an orgasm before. She said she let a few girls in H.S. try but it never happened. I didnt make it happen either. Her stated goal is to learn to cum and learn to be a good little wh*re for her Daddy. She also says she wants to hang out as well and do stuff, which is fine with me. She is way more than cute enough to hang out with and go places with even though she looks underage. So I got my fingers crossed.

There is one baby where she says in her profile that she is "420 friendly". Does anyone know what that means? The Urban dictionary only states it to refer to pot smoking with friends and meeting time. A term from the 80's I believe it said.

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2541881]There is one baby where she says in her profile that she is "420 friendly". Does anyone know what that means? The Urban dictionary only states it to refer to pot smoking with friends and meeting time. A term from the 80's I believe it said.[/QUOTE]It means that you are cool with smoking pot with her.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2541761]So a I see a new profile from an 18 year old Hawaiian spinner. She just posted yesterday. And she just graduated H.S. a month or so ago. She claimed her rich parents said she could come to L.A. just to see if she liked it and are shipping her car over shortly. Some quick messaging on line and I finally start txtin her. After 2 non stop hours she says lets just have a talking date. I say OK and another hour of txting gets to maybe we could just have oral. Finally another hour plus goes by and she says to come get her. By the time we get to my place its 10.30. No reason to waste time and we get right to the fun. As we just get naked in bed she says "BTW I,m a virgin for real". I'm like ok because with your insanely fresh and perfect body I could give a shit. She claimed she had never even been fingered before by a guy.

I will admit even getting one finger all the way in there comfortably took about 10 minutes. Eventually I had 2 in there and that probably took about another 20 minutes. Finally she says try putting your dick in. After about another 20 minutes it might have gone all they way in and I just stopped to let her feel it. Finally she said lets break and it really hurt, but she was pretty proud of herself for getting that far.

After about a 10 minute break we spent the next hour plus on her practicing her dick, ball handling and prostate massage skills. And her proper way of speaking to me. She had pretty decent kissing skills that improved dramatically by the end. All told a full two and half hours in the FC. As a first date it was a 9 and she was an easy 8 all around. As I was dropping her off I gave her the $ and she said wasn't it $$/ She pushed for a moment but one thing for sure nobody is more clear on the compensation than me. She saw i had another twenty on me so I gave it to her.

If I was to lose her over this I would be extremely disappointed. But I don't think that's the case. I,ll know for sure by tomorrow nite. She was 5,4" about 110 at most. Tan skin and smelled great. She also said she never had an orgasm before. She said she let a few girls in H.S. try but it never happened. I didnt make it happen either. Her stated goal is to learn to cum and learn to be a good little wh*re for her Daddy. She also says she wants to hang out as well and do stuff, which is fine with me. She is way more than cute enough to hang out with and go places with even though she looks underage. So I got my fingers crossed.[/QUOTE]I double-booked Sunday to avoid being flaked on, get flaked on by both girls, and you're fingering virgins. Smh, you're the man.

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2541881]There is one baby where she says in her profile that she is "420 friendly". Does anyone know what that means? The Urban dictionary only states it to refer to pot smoking with friends and meeting time. A term from the 80's I believe it said.[/QUOTE]It means she's willing to smoke marijuana with you, or is looking for someone that likes doing that as well.

Damn it. The virgin txted me this morning and said she was not happy with the compensation and that she wants more. She said she wasnt planning on losing her viriginty last nite, but oh well, shit happens and she wasnt sorry it happened. She says she is willing to talk about it. I don't know if I can salvage this or not. Keep you posted. And she keeps saying how she comes from a rich family and its just not enough. I may give in a few times to see if I can show her why what I pay combined with being a good guy is worth it. F ing shit.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2542196]Damn it. The virgin txted me this morning and said she was not happy with the compensation and that she wants more. She said she wasnt planning on losing her viriginty last nite, but oh well, shit happens and she wasnt sorry it happened. She says she is willing to talk about it. I don't know if I can salvage this or not. Keep you posted. And she keeps saying how she comes from a rich family and its just not enough. I may give in a few times to see if I can show her why what I pay combined with being a good guy is worth it. F ing shit.[/QUOTE]Better roll out that charm. Once one side feels like they aren't getting the level of value they want, shit starts falling apart.

HWG. You truly are an inspiration.

I know how you feel. I told myself that I would never provide more than $250 as an allowance, but my most recent blonde 19 year old blonde made me break that one. We established a much lower amount initially. And now we are at over double what was initially agreed to.

I've rewritten my rules though and for my specific situation, it has made me happier. Very recently, I upped my blonde swim instructors allowance for a variety of reasons. She really was in need of the cash, and so rather than a per date allowance, we moved to a weekly allowance. Sure, a higher allowance, but more value from my perspective.

Next, I had started to get bowl fatigue and she is my ATF baby to date. I got tired of m&gs with utr girls who were asking for per date allowances that exceeded the rates of some of the hottest pro talent in my area. Spend more for someone with less experience, for the privilege of listening to inane chatter. No thank you.

Like your Hawaiian, my blonde 19 year old swimmer is inexperienced sexually, has not been with many guys, but truly loves to please me. It really helps that she wants to spend time with me when I am free, but gives me as much space as I need, when I need it. It also helps that I have an all access pass to all lanes with her.

I released my Asian head student to make way for the higher allowance I am providing to blondie, and am keeping the low maintenance sexual dynamo 19 year old Asian in the wings for whenever I need or want something different.

Long story short, I am happier changing my rules. Even though the number of different ladies in rotation has gone down, trips to the FC has gone up and overall budget is about the same.

Have you thought about putting your Hawaiin on a weekly allowance? You may have to kick some of your lower quality babies from your rotation, but you may be happier for it in the long run, while keeping your overall budget the same.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2542196]Damn it. The virgin txted me this morning and said she was not happy with the compensation and that she wants more. She said she wasnt planning on losing her viriginty last nite, but oh well, shit happens and she wasnt sorry it happened. She says she is willing to talk about it. I don't know if I can salvage this or not. Keep you posted. And she keeps saying how she comes from a rich family and its just not enough. I may give in a few times to see if I can show her why what I pay combined with being a good guy is worth it. F ing shit.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2542196]Damn it. The virgin txted me this morning and said she was not happy with the compensation and that she wants more. She said she wasnt planning on losing her viriginty last nite, but oh well, shit happens and she wasnt sorry it happened. She says she is willing to talk about it. I don't know if I can salvage this or not. Keep you posted. And she keeps saying how she comes from a rich family and its just not enough. I may give in a few times to see if I can show her why what I pay combined with being a good guy is worth it. F ing shit.[/QUOTE]HWG I could be wrong, and I hope I am & that this turns into something good and long-term for you, but there's something about this girl's behavior and story that's got my BS detector going off like it hasn't in a long time.

If she's as rich as she says she is and her parents would do as she said they did, she does not need an SD. If she is cute enough to be an SB, she has all the opportunities for sexual experimentation laying at her feet. If she is just one of those that has a fetish for older men, the chances of her developing that fetish before her cherry is busted is less than 1 in a million.

Even assuming the virgin part of the story is confirmable via blood loss (you didn't mention so I wasn't sure), the other aspects of her story don't add up. Especially with the demands for more money, huge red flag. Money she shouldn't really need if her parents are so rich, yet she's using wealth as the reason she needs more. Whaaa?

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2542240]HWG. You truly are an inspiration.

I know how you feel. I told myself that I would never provide more than $250 as an allowance, but my most recent blonde 19 year old blonde made me break that one. We established a much lower amount initially. And now we are at over double what was initially agreed to.

I've rewritten my rules though and for my specific situation, it has made me happier. Very recently, I upped my blonde swim instructors allowance for a variety of reasons. She really was in need of the cash, and so rather than a per date allowance, we moved to a weekly allowance. Sure, a higher allowance, but more value from my perspective.

Next, I had started to get bowl fatigue and she is my ATF baby to date. I got tired of m&gs with utr girls who were asking for per date allowances that exceeded the rates of some of the hottest pro talent in my area. Spend more for someone with less experience, for the privilege of listening to inane chatter. No thank you.

Like your Hawaiian, my blonde 19 year old swimmer is inexperienced sexually, has not been with many guys, but truly loves to please me. It really helps that she wants to spend time with me when I am free, but gives me as much space as I need, when I need it. It also helps that I have an all access pass to all lanes with her.

I released my Asian head student to make way for the higher allowance I am providing to blondie, and am keeping the low maintenance sexual dynamo 19 year old Asian in the wings for whenever I need or want something different.

Long story short, I am happier changing my rules. Even though the number of different ladies in rotation has gone down, trips to the FC has gone up and overall budget is about the same.

Have you thought about putting your Hawaiin on a weekly allowance? You may have to kick some of your lower quality babies from your rotation, but you may be happier for it in the long run, while keeping your overall budget the same.[/QUOTE]I have already kicked or been kicked by everyone but my ATF who is at a straight $ a date for 10 months. I have had a lot of unexpected medical expenses so I am trying to balance it out and business sucked for the first 2 quarters this year. So its a problem. And I am weak from all the dr visits and surgeries etc. One day at a time as they say. Even now my back is killing me.

Approximately 2 months ago my sweet Asian SB ended our relationship (I reported that here) because she started a "committed" relationship with someone else. I wished her well and told her if things change to let me know. Today I get a text from her asking how I am doing. She tells me how much she misses me. Well, probably going to get together tomorrow. Life is good again.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2542371]HWG I could be wrong, and I hope I am & that this turns into something good and long-term for you, but there's something about this girl's behavior and story that's got my BS detector going off like it hasn't in a long time.

If she's as rich as she says she is and her parents would do as she said they did, she does not need an SD. If she is cute enough to be an SB, she has all the opportunities for sexual experimentation laying at her feet. If she is just one of those that has a fetish for older men, the chances of her developing that fetish before her cherry is busted is less than 1 in a million.

Even assuming the virgin part of the story is confirmable via blood loss (you didn't mention so I wasn't sure), the other aspects of her story don't add up. Especially with the demands for more money, huge red flag. Money she shouldn't really need if her parents are so rich, yet she's using wealth as the reason she needs more. Whaaa?[/QUOTE]We don't always agree. But you make some valid points here that had already crossed my mind. Also I did push her a little psychologically into some role play. Which she happily complied with, but it is new for a lot of girls. I remember when I first did that with my ATF she told me she was a little uncomfortable with it. Now she can't live without it. Things could be worse. Lots of POTS and pre-POTs hitting me up.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2542482]We don't always agree. But you make some valid points here that had already crossed my mind. Also I did push her a little psychologically into some role play. Which she happily complied with, but it is new for a lot of girls. I remember when I first did that with my ATF she told me she was a little uncomfortable with it. Now she can't live without it. Things could be worse. Lots of POTS and pre-POTs hitting me up.[/QUOTE]Will be great if she is what she says she is. Most women, particularly cute asians from rich families just don't give up their virginity for a hundred bucks or so. I've seen them do it for free, but for other reasons, so her upsell for higher allowance immediately afterwords is a red flag to be sure. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Need some guidance from the seniors on this one, just a post-mordem to see if I could have done anything differently. I don't think so, but a second (or eighth) set of eyes is always good.

So I sent out a batch of messages last night to new signups, I had a couple of no shows over the weekend I need to replace. One was to this 20 year old middle eastern girl, she only had a single public picture but a bunch of private ones and no profile info filled out. She'd only been on the site a few hours. I get a message back this morning and I fire up the usual line of questioning to see where it goes. As you can see below, she responds well to the entire thing, her answers are crafted to my questions and she's putting effort into it so it's definitely not a copy paste and the responses are pretty prompt so she's not wasting time. Not sure what went wrong at the end, maybe another monger beat me to her (screw you guys sometimes, LOL) with a higher offer or a girlfriend told her to upsell a bit:

Prelim messages I'm not going to copy as it had some identifying info in it, she gave me access to her pictures at this point as well. Very suggestive poses, bikini shots and some great shots of her waist+abs. This girl is smoking hot. This starts at Step 2 in HWG's 5 Steps guide:

MY MESSAGE 2.

So I'm pretty clear on what I'm looking for, what about you? Usually I find women are looking for 3 separate things:

#1. Financial help.

#2. Unmet physical needs.

#3. Emotional support.

The more of one you get, the less of the other two. I try to strike a good balance of the three, and I'm experienced enough at this to adjust as needed. I provide a safe environment where you can express what you might not express to others in your daily life. Whether that's just talking about a bad boss, a family member, or working out some physical needs on someone you don't have to face daily. I don't judge and I also don't pretend to be the perfect fit for everyone. We'll see soon if we are a good fit or not. .

So which of those 3 are you looking for?

HER MESSAGE 2.

LOL well even though financial support is something I'm looking for, it doesn't mean I won't take the time to actually see how your day is going and if you needed to talk. I'm an SD virgin (never had an SD or arrangement before) but even though you have money, you're still a human with feelings in my eyes. You're not a cash cow or opportunity to me. Out of that list, it's hard to choose honestly since all 3 are needed.

MY MESSAGE 3.

Some mixture of all 3 is normal, I throw that question out because if a woman answers nothing but #1 then we're not going to be a good fit.

I need a connection or chemistry, whatever you want to call it, for this to work for me. I've had initial meetups with drop dead gorgeous women that I walked away from because all they were interested in was an ATM. I give enough to show I'm not trying to get something for nothing, but not so much someone would stay with me only for money.

So are you looking for the highest bidder? If you're looking for top dollar, I guarantee that's not going to be me. There are some guys on here who will throw obscene amounts of cash at you. Maybe you'll need that much to stomach being around them, there are plenty of assholes and losers on here.

If you're willing to accept less from a chill guy who's reliable, interested in your well being and not just your body, and very drama / problem free we can work out. What do you think?

HER MESSAGE 3.

Not searching for the highest bidder at all. I understand that trust is needed as well as affection and genuine feelings on your part. I'm not going to fake my feelings just to get what I want. You seem like a serious and caring person with a huge heart. All I want is a friend that I can do everything with, but financially just enough to cover college expenses until I graduate. If you want me to pay you back that's fine.

MY MESSAGE 4.

Well that's good to hear, that's the type of girl I like to date. I typically start at $150 per meet up, it won't pay for college in one visit but it does add up. I generally expect to meet someone 2-4 times a month, depends on both our schedules.

I understand if that's not enough for you, like I said before I know that I won't meet every woman's needs. I just prefer to know someone is with me for more than just money. That won't outright pay for tuition, but I'm sure it would put a hurting on books and fees. If that sounds good to you let me know and we can talk about what dates will look like.

HER MESSAGE 4.

I'm interested. $150 is fine. I won't blow it on silly things knowing I have fees. That wouldn't be very smart.

MY MESSAGE 5.

I'm not going to copy / paste what I sent for this one, but I explain what few rules I have (no social media pictures, discretion, and STI tests + condoms if she isn't on birth control I can verify). I explain my sexual needs, nothing outrageous or extreme. I mainly look for a GFE, the same type of thing I bet most of you do. I just want a good looking fucktoy every weekend is all.

HER MESSAGE 5.

I like your terms. Very easy and agreeable. Sex is fine with me. I'm disease and drug free but if you would feel better if I got tested to show you proof I'm fine with that. I give oral and we can do Anal if you're into that. I'm on a birth control shot called Depo Provera but if you choose to use a condom regardless it's fine. <REDACTED AFTER THIS, PERSONAL INFORMATION .

The rest after that is just schedules and locations, I leave off with giving her my GV number and she says she's going to 'text me now'. I was busy at work, so I didn't check for a couple hours, and when I did I saw there was no text. I check the SA convo and there's no update. Now I've had a few problems with GV texts not coming through on occasion, particularly MMS if they send a picture, so I send her another message saying "hey if you texted me I haven't gotten it, sometimes my phone drops them so let me know if you're trying to send me something". I put the phone down, go back to work, check back 30 minutes later and I'm blocked on SA chat and she revoked access to her (very good looking) pictures.

Obviously this shit happens with girls selling their asses on the internet, just seeking some input on anything I might have done wrong here. Like I said up top, I think she either had another guy offer more cash, a girlfriend told her to get more, or I somehow managed to creep her out with the last message. Not sure how the last option works considering she was telling me I could blast inside her ass or pussy 4 hours prior, but hey these girls are kinda crazy sometimes. Her profile isn't deleted, so she didn't just give up on the whole idea either.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2542482]We don't always agree. But you make some valid points here that had already crossed my mind. Also I did push her a little psychologically into some role play. Which she happily complied with, but it is new for a lot of girls. I remember when I first did that with my ATF she told me she was a little uncomfortable with it. Now she can't live without it. Things could be worse. Lots of POTS and pre-POTs hitting me up.[/QUOTE]I have to admit that I had the same reaction that Jeez mentioned regarding rich family (shipping her car over?) And used to having more money angle. That didn't sound right to me. Just sayin.

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2542754]I have to admit that I had the same reaction that Jeez mentioned regarding rich family (shipping her car over?) And used to having more money angle. That didn't sound right to me. Just sayin.[/QUOTE]Well I am supposed to see her for a no sugar no sex hang out date later tonite. So maybe if we have some time to talk, things will be more clear. Neither of has but both want a bf/gf type thing. So its worth the effort for now. I love my ATF but all we do it fuck. Not complaining, but we never do anything else, ever. i been talking to my stripper x via email pretty regularly too. Hoping she gets her groove on and feels confident enough to wanna show me she can hang in the FC. No hurry there either.

Well.

For one thing you are using the HWG guide almost verbatim.

Please guys. Change it a bit.

It's possible some other lazy guy sent the same exact message??

[QUOTE=ReaperGuy;2542747]Need some guidance from the seniors on this one, just a post-mordem to see if I could have done anything differently. I don't think so, but a second (or eighth) set of eyes is always good.

So I sent out a batch of messages last night to new signups, I had a couple of no shows over the weekend I need to replace. One was to this 20 year old middle eastern girl, she only had a single public picture but a bunch of private ones and no profile info filled out. She'd only been on the site a few hours. I get a message back this morning and I fire up the usual line of questioning to see where it goes. As you can see below, she responds well to the entire thing, her answers are crafted to my questions and she's putting effort into it so it's definitely not a copy paste and the responses are pretty prompt so she's not wasting time. Not sure what went wrong at the end, maybe another monger beat me to her (screw you guys sometimes, LOL) with a higher offer or a girlfriend told her to upsell a bit:

Prelim messages I'm not going to copy as it had some identifying info in it, she gave me access to her pictures at this point as well. Very suggestive poses, bikini shots and some great shots of her waist+abs. This girl is smoking hot. This starts at Step 2 in HWG's 5 Steps guide:

MY MESSAGE 2.

So I'm pretty clear on what I'm looking for, what about you? Usually I find women are looking for 3 separate things:

#1. Financial help.

#2. Unmet physical needs.

#3. Emotional support.

The more of one you get, the less of the other two. I try to strike a good balance of the three, and I'm experienced enough at this to adjust as needed. I provide a safe environment where you can express what you might not express to others in your daily life. Whether that's just talking about a bad boss, a family member, or working out some physical needs on someone you don't have to face daily. I don't judge and I also don't pretend to be the perfect fit for everyone. We'll see soon if we are a good fit or not. .

So which of those 3 are you looking for?

HER MESSAGE 2.

LOL well even though financial support is something I'm looking for, it doesn't mean I won't take the time to actually see how your day is going and if you needed to talk. I'm an SD virgin (never had an SD or arrangement before) but even though you have money, you're still a human with feelings in my eyes. You're not a cash cow or opportunity to me. Out of that list, it's hard to choose honestly since all 3 are needed.

MY MESSAGE 3.

Some mixture of all 3 is normal, I throw that question out because if a woman answers nothing but #1 then we're not going to be a good fit.

I need a connection or chemistry, whatever you want to call it, for this to work for me. I've had initial meetups with drop dead gorgeous women that I walked away from because all they were interested in was an ATM. I give enough to show I'm not trying to get something for nothing, but not so much someone would stay with me only for money.

So are you looking for the highest bidder? If you're looking for top dollar, I guarantee that's not going to be me. There are some guys on here who will throw obscene amounts of cash at you. Maybe you'll need that much to stomach being around them, there are plenty of assholes and losers on here.

If you're willing to accept less from a chill guy who's reliable, interested in your well being and not just your body, and very drama / problem free we can work out. What do you think?

HER MESSAGE 3.

Not searching for the highest bidder at all. I understand that trust is needed as well as affection and genuine feelings on your part. I'm not going to fake my feelings just to get what I want. You seem like a serious and caring person with a huge heart. All I want is a friend that I can do everything with, but financially just enough to cover college expenses until I graduate. If you want me to pay you back that's fine.

MY MESSAGE 4.

Well that's good to hear, that's the type of girl I like to date. I typically start at $150 per meet up, it won't pay for college in one visit but it does add up. I generally expect to meet someone 2-4 times a month, depends on both our schedules.

I understand if that's not enough for you, like I said before I know that I won't meet every woman's needs. I just prefer to know someone is with me for more than just money. That won't outright pay for tuition, but I'm sure it would put a hurting on books and fees. If that sounds good to you let me know and we can talk about what dates will look like.

HER MESSAGE 4.

I'm interested. $150 is fine. I won't blow it on silly things knowing I have fees. That wouldn't be very smart.

MY MESSAGE 5.

I'm not going to copy / paste what I sent for this one, but I explain what few rules I have (no social media pictures, discretion, and STI tests + condoms if she isn't on birth control I can verify). I explain my sexual needs, nothing outrageous or extreme. I mainly look for a GFE, the same type of thing I bet most of you do. I just want a good looking fucktoy every weekend is all.

HER MESSAGE 5.

I like your terms. Very easy and agreeable. Sex is fine with me. I'm disease and drug free but if you would feel better if I got tested to show you proof I'm fine with that. I give oral and we can do Anal if you're into that. I'm on a birth control shot called Depo Provera but if you choose to use a condom regardless it's fine. <REDACTED AFTER THIS, PERSONAL INFORMATION .

The rest after that is just schedules and locations, I leave off with giving her my GV number and she says she's going to 'text me now'. I was busy at work, so I didn't check for a couple hours, and when I did I saw there was no text. I check the SA convo and there's no update. Now I've had a few problems with GV texts not coming through on occasion, particularly MMS if they send a picture, so I send her another message saying "hey if you texted me I haven't gotten it, sometimes my phone drops them so let me know if you're trying to send me something". I put the phone down, go back to work, check back 30 minutes later and I'm blocked on SA chat and she revoked access to her (very good looking) pictures.

Obviously this shit happens with girls selling their asses on the internet, just seeking some input on anything I might have done wrong here. Like I said up top, I think she either had another guy offer more cash, a girlfriend told her to get more, or I somehow managed to creep her out with the last message. Not sure how the last option works considering she was telling me I could blast inside her ass or pussy 4 hours prior, but hey these girls are kinda crazy sometimes. Her profile isn't deleted, so she didn't just give up on the whole idea either.[/QUOTE]

So I went on my no sex no sugar date with the virgin -1. This time we spent the first two hours watching a netflix and talking and some touching.

After me telling her I wanted to fuck her, she said we needed to work out the arrangement first. I told her I liked her and would keep seeing her and that the $ will add up. She agreed but said she didn't want to fuck tonite because it was late (like 1.30 am) and she was tired.

So I told her no problem, just get me off and I,ll give you the $ anyway. So we spent the next hour in the FC until she finally got me off. We talked some more on the ride home and I told her I would go to 10 dates for her to get some kind of groove on or it just won't work. And she said ok, she would try. I see she took her profile down for now.

She is pretty and has a perfect very fit 5'4" 107 frame. She is amazingly chill which I love. Just her skills are great in some ways and non existent in others. She feels bad that she can't cum but she does get turned on. So I told her on date three I am going to try some new stuff on her. And I told her she can hang out if she wants for free on days she just really doesn't want sex but doesn't want to be alone either.

Being that I work at home alone its no problem because I like her company and If I have a date later I can just send her home anytime. I told her about all my other girls and lifestyle. She's cool with it. And how can she not be. No guy is going to pay to be with an inexperienced randomly horny girl. Which she agreed if there were some no sex days I dont have to pay. I don't know if I can flip the switch to the level I need, to be able to keep seeing her. But she says she is willing to let me try. She is a sweet girl in every way. And she has the voice of an angel when she's in the FC.

Right now I really only have my ATF as a steady, due to my church girl ditching me to go celibate for jesus (unless she says it becomes too unbearable). So I can hang with this one for now while I keep looking. And I do have multiple babes I am in the process of screening.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2543056]So I went on my no sex no sugar date with the virgin -1. This time we spent the first two hours watching a netflix and talking and some touching.

After me telling her I wanted to fuck her, she said we needed to work out the arrangement first. I told her I liked her and would keep seeing her and that the $ will add up. She agreed but said she didn't want to fuck because it was late (like 1.30 am) and she was tired.

So I told her no problem, just get me off and I,ll give you the $ anyway. So we spent the next hour in the FC until she finally got me off. We talked some more on the ride home and I told her I would go to 10 dates for her to get some kind of groove on or it just won't work. And she said ok, she would try. I see she took her profile down for now.

She is pretty and has a perfect very fit 5'4" 107 frame. She is amazingly chill which I love. Just her skills are great in some ways and non existent in others. She feels bad that she can't cum but she does get turned on. So I told her on date three I am going to try some new stuff on her. And I told her she can hang out if she wants for free on days she just really doesn't want sex but doesn't want to be alone either.

Being that I work at home alone its no problem because I like her company and If I have a date later I can just send her home anytime. I told her about all my other girls and lifestyle. She's cool with it. And how can she not be. No guy is going to pay to be with an inexperienced randomly horny girl. Which she agreed if there were some no sex days I dont have to pay. I don't know if I can flip the switch to the level I need, to be able to keep seeing her. But she says she is willing to let me try. She is a sweet girl in every way. And she has the voice of an angel when she's in the FC.

Right now I really only have my ATF as a steady, due to my church girl ditching me to go celibate for jesus (unless she says it becomes too unbearable). So I can hang with this one for now while I keep looking. And I do have multiple babes I am in the process of screening.[/QUOTE]You're working it. My hat is off to you. The ones with a voice like an angel in bed or out (if it's natural) get me every time. My ex wife Asian had one of those.

[QUOTE=FTP1999;2542939]Well.

For one thing you are using the HWG guide almost verbatim.

Please guys. Change it a bit.

It's possible some other lazy guy sent the same exact message??[/QUOTE]I'm not in the same area as you guys, this is just *the* place to talk about sugar. This is the first time I've actually used the guide, I'm working on re-writing with my own words. I thought I changed out a lot as I was writing, but when I go back and read it it does look like I copy pasted it. Whoops!

Asian parents tend to try to control their kids with money. It is entirely possible that her parents are rich, but that she couldn't deal with the caveats they placed on her for subsidizing her lifestyle.

She lashes out for freedom by coming to the mainland, gets "back" at her father by finding and banging a daddy, and then tries to gain control of daddy via asking for more allowance. Thereby replacing her real father with a daddy who has rules she can live with.

Maybe not the most likely of possibilities, but there are lots of explanations. I've found that the young ones have odd definitions for what counts as sex and whether they are virgins or not. I had one lady try to convince me she was a born again virgin.

One thing is for real though. Real life is stranger than fiction. The bowl has taught me that at least.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2542716]Will be great if she is what she says she is. Most women, particularly cute asians from rich families just don't give up their virginity for a hundred bucks or so. I've seen them do it for free, but for other reasons, so her upsell for higher allowance immediately afterwords is a red flag to be sure. Hopefully I'm wrong.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=IluvSmellyFish;2543201]Asian parents tend to try to control their kids with money. It is entirely possible that her parents are rich, but that she couldn't deal with the caveats they placed on her for subsidizing her lifestyle.

She lashes out for freedom by coming to the mainland, gets "back" at her father by finding and banging a daddy, and then tries to gain control of daddy via asking for more allowance. Thereby replacing her real father with a daddy who has rules she can live with.

Maybe not the most likely of possibilities, but there are lots of explanations. I've found that the young ones have odd definitions for what counts as sex and whether they are virgins or not. I had one lady try to convince me she was a born again virgin.

One thing is for real though. Real life is stranger than fiction. The bowl has taught me that at least.[/QUOTE]The scenario you describe is certainly possible, just unlikely, IMO. The controlling father and desire to rebel happens more often than not in wealthy Asian families, it's just that some of the other parts of the story are just as unlikely as that is likely. I've seen pretty much the gamut of cultural differences in ladies from various countries I've dated, and as you said some pretty weird stuff, it's just that it's not likely to get "that" weird between Hawaii and mainland US.

For the most part, I'd say it's inconsequential how honest she is (because expecting full honesty from any SB is a pipe dream anyway), because pussy is pussy and as long as it's fun then why not? The only reason I would be a bit cautious in this case is the fact that she so quickly put herself in a "you took my virginity" situation, which to me (having a lot of experience w / foreign women) sounds like one clawing for a position of leverage to me. What is she planning to do with that leverage? Immediate upsell doesn't seem promising.

So if I were HWG or anyone else in the situation, I would only really care about one thing -- authenticating whether she really lost the cherry or not. Then he can know whether she is holding something real over his head or not.

With western girls you cannot count on the presence of an intact hymen (pre-sex that is) to indicate virginity, but IMO the presence in this case would be a much more reliable indicator. Whatever they verbally tell us regarding the matter can be pretty much wholly discarded, as you pointed out. So if I were HWG I would use blood loss as an indicator, even if not a fully reliable one. Even then I wouldn't necessarily make a case or stop seeing her as long as everything else was copacetic, I would just think twice about paying her more than what she agreed to if I knew she had already lied about something so significant.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2543289]The scenario you describe is certainly possible, just unlikely, IMO. The controlling father and desire to rebel happens more often than not in wealthy Asian families, it's just that some of the other parts of the story are just as unlikely as that is likely. I've seen pretty much the gamut of cultural differences in ladies from various countries I've dated, and as you said some pretty weird stuff, it's just that it's not likely to get "that" weird between Hawaii and mainland US.

. So if I were HWG I would use blood loss as an indicator, even if not a fully reliable one. Even then I wouldn't necessarily make a case or stop seeing her as long as everything else was copacetic, I would just think twice about paying her more than what she agreed to if I knew she had already lied about something so significant.[/QUOTE]Hollywood is perhaps the most experienced pussy magnet on the Board and I would be comfortable with his eval and effort made to penetrate that pussy. It sounds like quite a patient process involving slow dilation, which would avoid the sudden thrust and tearing of the hymen-that most of us would probably do. "Honey, take a deep breath and try to be good. Sounds like a good plan to me. There are some cultures that demand virginity before marriage -so a little tart who has busted the family jewel will have a minor surgical procedure to sew the tattered shreds of the membrane back together -so she can go through the pain yet again.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2543328]Hollywood is perhaps the most experienced pussy magnet on the Board and I would be comfortable with his eval and effort made to penetrate that pussy. It sounds like quite a patient process involving slow dilation, which would avoid the sudden thrust and tearing of the hymen-that most of us would probably do. "Honey, take a deep breath and try to be good. Sounds like a good plan to me. There are some cultures that demand virginity before marriage -so a little tart who has busted the family jewel will have a minor surgical procedure to sew the tattered shreds of the membrane back together -so she can go through the pain yet again.[/QUOTE]Opinions and thoughts are what they are, I'm sure HWG wasn't insulted by mine (at least I hope not, not my intention). The only reason I brought it up is because the consideration of upping the budget. That is something I typically don't hear him considering, and sometimes people find their judgment is influenced by adverse health conditions. HWG's normal demographic range for POTS is different than mine, but he is now surfing in an area of the bowl where I have an enormous amount of experience over many decades. And, with regard to experience -- an ounce of real world dating experience is equivalent to a ton of sugaring experience, along the lines of understanding how women think and what makes them tick (really tick, not just the Pavlov response to money). Please don't be under the impression that I've ever shared even. 01% of my total experience with the topic being discussed here on this forum. Conclusions are easily derived, free and worth every penny on an Internet forum -- it doesn't mean I'm right on this one, as I said I hope I'm wrong.

But the one thing I've learned in all of it is that when my BS detector goes off, there is a good reason. The alarm sound itself does not necessarily provide insight as to root cause, it simply means heads up, but it never (and I do mean never) false positives. Can it work as well for someone else, remotely over the Internet? Perhaps not, it's only operating on someone else's description of what's taking place at that point.

It's really just one man's opinion and nothing more. Whenever we decide to share the details of our dates on a public forum, it only stands to reason that we are also simultaneously soliciting feedback on them. So, I gave that. That's all.