General Reports

[QUOTE=Lowlys One;1459599]I don't know that keeping AMP's open helps alleviates lewd crime and rape, I read that rape is a control and power issue, but anyway I get your point, same with those gambling parlours they are kept open as well, I'm not sure if that area where Orchids, the 7-11 store on Atkinson, extending past keeaumoku street area is still designated a weed and seed area, but it is believed by many that those places the gambling rooms and massage parlours are kept open so they (le) can have a place where the criminal elements frequents so if the need arises le knows exactly where to go and who to talk to, so they can pick somene up on a warrants. Just a side note, back when world war II was gathering steam, we had over a million of our soldiers come through the islands on their way to or from the midway island and the Pacific theather, the military saw a need for a place where these young men (most of them just out of high school) could go and just cut loose with booze and hookers as many of these young men realized that the chances of not returning home was very real. Their solution? Take control of the downtown brothels, literally becoming the brothels security and actually standing at the door of these brothels, also setting the going rate for a session at one of the many brothels that littered the. Downtown / chinatown area and also setting the rules for the brothels providers as to where they were allowed to go, and where they were forbidden to go and who they could be seen with out I public, long story short, public sentiment was against the military and feeling ran deep against these malahinis, as they would often get drunk as hell and rape and harass the local women, hence the military took control of the brothels for one, a place for its soldiers to blow steam, and two, to keep an eye out for the soldier so they had limited interaction with the locals, in other words to keep their guy in an area where they knew the local didn't frequent, but the fear of the public finding out that the government was involved with these brothels compelled them to make a deal with the local police more specifically the department of Vice and Virtue, who later we just called the vice squad and now its called the crime reduction unit or C. R. U, so from federal government run to state run brothels many of the vice guys who were in charge of running the brothels are now retired cops, who had last known control of the illegal prostitution on this island. I know this and a lot more to this story because I saw this on the discovery channel. Eerily amazing, should help explain a lot till this day, retired doesn't mean done in this case, you can go to the discovery channels website and see this specific episode, think you got to do a search on their site for redlights district or honlulu's chinatown, real eye opening or sure.[/QUOTE]Don't have time to reply just yet but I just want to say that was very interesting and informative.

I live right by the Ward complex and its baffling to me. Anyways thanks man.

[QUOTE=Slide Hammer; 1460056]Don't have time to reply just yet but I just want to say that was very interesting and informative.

I live right by the Ward complex and its baffling to me. Anyways thanks man.[/QUOTE]I think you can just Google red light district / Chinatown Honolulu or something of that nature and you can readup on how it was. One of the more interesting figures of those days was this provider named Jean O'hara who came here for the work they had in the brothel from Chicago. She became famous or infamous as a result of the government setting the going rate for the services they provide, I forgot what it was, I think it was. 3 dollars a trick, what she did as a result of the military setting the going rate was she created a system called the bull pen system where one provider woulds work 3 rooms, the first room there was a john getting undress, the second room there was the john and the provider, getting it on, The third room there was a jonhn getting dressed, this allowed the gals to become more efficieint with their time and thus maximize their earnings.

[QUOTE=Lowlys One;1460134]I think you can just Google red light district / Chinatown Honolulu or something of that nature and you can readup on how it was. One of the more interesting figures of those days was this provider named Jean O'hara who came here for the work they had in the brothel from Chicago. She became famous or infamous as a result of the government setting the going rate for the services they provide, I forgot what it was, I think it was. 3 dollars a trick, what she did as a result of the military setting the going rate was she created a system called the bull pen system where one provider woulds work 3 rooms, the first room there was a john getting undress, the second room there was the john and the provider, getting it on, The third room there was a jonhn getting dressed, this allowed the gals to become more efficieint with their time and thus maximize their earnings.[/QUOTE]I've never been busted before and don't plan to. The thought is mortifying to me. Thats part of the reason I avoid the ward complex altogether with the history of busts. But I guess that happens throughout the city.

But based on this history, don't you think a john could get creative and somehow use this as a defense somehow? I mean I understand this was way back in the day and for a 'purpose' of soldier catharsis but its whacky and hypocritical. For them to bust people now. Something doesn't seem right. Probably because laws were passed after the fact I'm guessing but Ill google it.

[QUOTE=Slide Hammer; 1460200]I've never been busted before and don't plan to. The thought is mortifying to me. Thats part of the reason I avoid the ward complex altogether with the history of busts. But I guess that happens throughout the city.

But based on this history, don't you think a john could get creative and somehow use this as a defense somehow? I mean I understand this was way back in the day and for a 'purpose' of soldier catharsis but its whacky and hypocritical. For them to bust people now. Something doesn't seem right. Probably because laws were passed after the fact I'm guessing but Ill google it.[/QUOTE]Well growing up I thought my parents were perfect, of course I found out this was far from the truth, it would do me no good to use their imperfection as an excuse for my shortcomings or flaws, you could say it made sense in some way, something like "oh well my parents never thought me never to show up at someones house empty handed" as I showed up at someones house empty handed, makes sense that if no one told you, how could you know? But with that being said, it still does you no good as you still showed up at someones house empty handed, doesn't change the bottom line, you'll still get the funny looks, still be thought of as showing little class ect, ect. Same thing applies with regards to this islands history with prostitution, yeah the military and police engaged in highly illegal activities but one can't use this and say well you guys did this yesterday so you can't or shouldn't even bother me today, while I engage in this. Were even. Nope, sounds right and fair and I can see the train of thought, but what was done in the past entitles one to absolutely nothing in the present.

[QUOTE=Slide Hammer; 1460200]I've never been busted before and don't plan to. The thought is mortifying to me. Thats part of the reason I avoid the ward complex altogether with the history of busts. But I guess that happens throughout the city.

But based on this history, don't you think a john could get creative and somehow use this as a defense somehow? I mean I understand this was way back in the day and for a 'purpose' of soldier catharsis but its whacky and hypocritical. For them to bust people now. Something doesn't seem right. Probably because laws were passed after the fact I'm guessing but Ill google it.[/QUOTE]Using that logic I should be able to beat my wife, and keep slaves; both were legal at one time.

[QUOTE=Bobb Sledd;1460273]Using that logic I should be able to beat my wife, and keep slaves; both were legal at one time.[/QUOTE]Well I indicated at the end there that laws have probably changed but I still think the pigs are getting their cake and eating it too.

[QUOTE=Slide Hammer;1460284]Well I indicated at the end there that laws have probably changed but I still think the pigs are getting their cake and eating it too.[/QUOTE]I agree with you on that! Sometimes there doesn't seem to be any rhythm or reason in the laws that are enacted! Mahalo!

[QUOTE=Slide Hammer; 1459560]But more a small question of conspiracy I guess.

Its pretty simple. If prostitution and AMPs are "kept open" by locales and their police force knowing full well that these places help to keep riffraff off the street (not calling anyone here riffraff) and help to alleviate rape and other lewd crimes, then why the fuck do they bust johns from time to time in stings? Its one of the foggiest hypocrisies I can think of because I think they know all of this.[/QUOTE]I have to agree with the other monger that mentioned rape as being a power / control issue. I don't think AMPs do much to alleviate this or other sex crimes. Those that demonstrate such behavior probably don't see sex in the same light as we do. They may not even gain any pleasure from it. I'll stop the pseudo-psycho babble as I'm no expert, but I will say this much. I think local politicians and law enforcement would much rather have prostitution done behind closed doors (like in an AMP) rather than out on the street, however they would be foolish to admit it. That's why you read / hear of more stings on street prostitution versus busts on AMPs. Much more visible and effective in convincing the conservative / religious that affirmative action is being taken. A lot more manpower involved in your typical SW sting rather than a few officers an maybe an INS agent busting an AMP. This being an election year I wouldn't be surprised to see more LE activity than normal. Just my two lincolns on the subject.

So, like I said before, if you have NOT shared any useful Intel. To the forum, and PM me for some, I will NOT share any with you. It's a give and take here. Even if you are NOT a senior member, if you HAVE contributed, good, useful intel, I have NO problems sharing with you! I'm glad to see someone understands that concept here!

On another note, you should NEVER tell the provider about this forum! It's kinda defeats the purpose don't ya think. What's the #1 rule of Fight Club again.

Stay safe, and have a good weekend! P. K.

[QUOTE=Sukebegai;1460380]I have to agree with the other monger that mentioned rape as being a power / control issue. I don't think AMPs do much to alleviate this or other sex crimes. Those that demonstrate such behavior probably don't see sex in the same light as we do. They may not even gain any pleasure from it. I'll stop the pseudo-psycho babble as I'm no expert, but I will say this much. I think local politicians and law enforcement would much rather have prostitution done behind closed doors (like in an AMP) rather than out on the street, however they would be foolish to admit it. That's why you read / hear of more stings on street prostitution versus busts on AMPs. Much more visible and effective in convincing the conservative / religious that affirmative action is being taken. A lot more manpower involved in your typical SW sting rather than a few officers an maybe an INS agent busting an AMP. This being an election year I wouldn't be surprised to see more LE activity than normal. Just my two lincolns on the subject.[/QUOTE]Yeah this makes sense now that I think about it. Iiiii wrongly confused AMPs with porn, and there is a known association between porn actually alleviating lewd acts in society. In addition to what you wrote, I also forgot the barrier of cash in all of this. Thanks

[QUOTE=Sukebegai;1460380]I have to agree with the other monger that mentioned rape as being a power / control issue. I don't think AMPs do much to alleviate this or other sex crimes. Those that demonstrate such behavior probably don't see sex in the same light as we do. They may not even gain any pleasure from it. I'll stop the pseudo-psycho babble as I'm no expert, but I will say this much. I think local politicians and law enforcement would much rather have prostitution done behind closed doors (like in an AMP) rather than out on the street, however they would be foolish to admit it. That's why you read / hear of more stings on street prostitution versus busts on AMPs. Much more visible and effective in convincing the conservative / religious that affirmative action is being taken. A lot more manpower involved in your typical SW sting rather than a few officers an maybe an INS agent busting an AMP. This being an election year I wouldn't be surprised to see more LE activity than normal. Just my two lincolns on the subject.[/QUOTE]The real instigators that LE and politicians try to appease are not conserviative religious prudes, but militant feminists. Religious prudes may be donars and grunts but the real hard core activists, organizers and leaders are militant feminists.

[QUOTE=Slide Hammer;1460284]Well I indicated at the end there that laws have probably changed but I still think the pigs are getting their cake and eating it too.[/QUOTE]No way Vice runs prostitution now if it did in decades past, but AMPs contribute money to police funds if anyone has ever seen the decals and labels plastered all over the doors. Why are the brothels allowed to operate, despite occassional raids? Without any inside knowledge of the workings of LE and city politics, I can only hazard some guesses. (1) It is better for prostitution to be indoors than outdoors, not just from a community standard of unsightly streetwalkers and propositioning Johns and pimps, but from cleanliness and safety standards. Even scholarly research covering prostitution in sociology has been advancing the thesis that indoor prostitution should be legalized for these reasons. Of course prohibition and abolition activists from both the left and the right would never accept any reasonable arguments that go against their fundamental worldviews. (2) HPD and politicians realize the risk of coercion and human trafficking is low at the local AMPs for a variety of reasons that may not be so applicable in other parts of the world and on mainland cities. Despite our gripes, everything done at the well known AMPs is professional from the little details to the big picture. However the business model is perfected from experience in Asia I don't know, but it works very well here in a city that is both American and Asian. And I do not think it is an accident that Koreans have dominated the business here in Honolulu. Broken English notwithstanding, none of the players is stupid. They come from a Confucian educational system that is very rigorous and demanding. They are also from an in-your-face and confrontational culture. Talking to many of the girls, I have a general idea of how they have come into the business, as many mongers here also know. They come here of their own accord to make the big bucks, and I have yet to meet an Asian version of the American stereotype of a victimized prostitute, the run away exploited by pimp daddy. Which makes the one or two cases of coercion with ties to the AMPs all the more striking. The cases involve local girls or mainland girls who really come from a different background and culture, western feminists at heart regardless of how pathetic their personal stories are. The business owners should have done their due diligence and vetting and should have never allowed a girl under pimp coercion to ever set foot and work inside an AMP. It seems to me that even if there is organized crime involved behind the scenes of the AMPs everyone knows that coercion would not work. And since the girls can come and go as they please and keep all their money that they make, less lodging and food expenses, then both the girls and the business owners make out, and it becomes a virtuous cycle. And this just galls the prohibition activists to no end. (3) Reasonable people including HPD and politicians realize that unmolested AMPs do provide an outlet that is beneficial to the society. It may not decrease rape but it may alleviate other sexually related issues and troubles short of rape. Harrassment, unwanted advances, coveting thy neighbor's wife, etc. Again, people with uncompromising ideologies or moral crusaders would never accept that.

[QUOTE=Slide Hammer;1460781]Yeah this makes sense now that I think about it. Iiiii wrongly confused AMPs with porn, and there is a known association between porn actually alleviating lewd acts in society. In addition to what you wrote, I also forgot the barrier of cash in all of this. Thanks[/QUOTE]Porn is legal because the woman have to pay taxes on what they make. In prostitution no taxes paid

[QUOTE=Oldie81;1461243]Porn is legal because the woman have to pay taxes on what they make. In prostitution no taxes paid[/QUOTE]Depends on which state you're talking about. Until the late '80s it was illegal to shoot XXX in L. A, despite the fact that it was the porn capitol of the world as much as it was then as it is now. LAPD vice would haul in producers for pandering and performers for hooking.

Porn is legal to produce and shoot in California because a producer took the state to court on the grounds it was violating his free speech rights when he was busted for making a movie (California v. Freeman). The California Supreme Court sided with the producer. (The New Hampshire Supreme Court made a similar decision in 2008.)

Right now you're wondering if you can get around the law by videotaping all your "encounters" with "escorts," because you're shooting a movie. Good luck with that. Unless you're willing to fight the case all the way up the Hawaii Supreme Court and maybe have them side with you (there's no guarantees, especially when it comes to porn) , the HPD will probably just laugh in your face and confiscate your camera (or smartphone, if you're using that to shoot video) for evidence.

That's not just in Hawaii. If you make a movie in any state except California and New Hampshire, and you're busted you will be arrested and tried for pandering and or / prostitution. Yes, that applies to all that Bang Bus stuff you've watched and the odd movie made in Nevada (there's cases where amateurs have been busted for making a movie).

Somebody put the updated Monger Map up. I think with all the stings etc that have been occurring we should have one up!