"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=Walruscl;2408490]Yeah, I've considered it, but only fleetingly. I barely have enough time for this one. Even if I could magically make another perfect-match SB appear on the scene I'd have trouble juggling them. One SB, job, household, kids, etc is more than I can handle already. The thought of the time and energy required for the M&G process is just too much.

My current plan is to let this one play out, make the most of it, and deal with the emotional consequences best I can when it ends. This ride has been sufficiently intense that it's unclear that would even enter the bowl again. This experience is a pretty tough standard to meet in terms of how good things can be, but also a cautionary tale on the emotional investment that can come along with it. This episode was a wake-up call that I need to actively moderate my affections towards my unicorn.[/QUOTE]Good advice from the brothers, but hard to do. I had an intense relationship with my ATF years ago. I was insane and would have run off with this SB 40 yrs my junior--for both of us a disaster. I haven't found the same thing years since. So I guess what I am saying is to allow this relationship to run it's natural course-whether she stays or goes. If she stays work on separating yourself emotionally -not that she would know, but you have to be able to deal with LAB (life after Baby). You might need some counselling. I heard pole dancers are good therapists LOL. I agree you should make time to add another SB to the mix. It won't be the same but you do need the perspective.

[QUOTE=Walruscl;2408357]

This, brothers, is the danger when it gets too deep. I care way too much about this. It's not the type of thing where I'm itching to just run off with her, since I know better than to think that would work out. But she fills many needs, not just physical, and when that eventually comes to an end it will be painful. And episodes like this eat up way too much mental and emotional energy that are better spent elsewhere. Fortunately they are rare.[/QUOTE]I unfortunately have gotten in too deep with a few girls. Lived with three already. Now I keep it cool. And always let them know upfront that I am nobody's B word. No offence. But as far as feelings. If I let mine get carried away then I am ready to pay the price. But having one baby is always a recipe for disaster.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2408547]you also want confirmation that she wants you bad enough to leave the other dude. The feeling itself is perfectly normal, but it behooves you to get control of it.[/QUOTE]Yes, SO and kids. And this was indeed a wake-up call to work on emotional detachment.

[QUOTE]I'm sure someone, somewhere, occasionally emerges from an SB arrangement with a legitimate and fulfilling LTR or marriage (assuming that's what they want), but saying they are the minority is an understatement. I'm going to say not even 1% have a chance at their SB flipping into a faithful / loyal companion for life. The very fact that the girl ever positioned herself as an SB indicates an innate feeling of entitlement to things she did not legitimately earn herself -- rather she expects to receive support in exchange for her beauty. Long term, her beauty will fade but her sense of entitlement will only grow. Sugarbabying reinforces that sense of entitlement and sets them up for a lifetime of GPS for as long as they remain hot looking, and a lifetime of bitter, moody horrors beyond that point.[/QUOTE]As for her chances of a LTR in her life, I can't say. A seriously broken home is a huge hindrance to that. But I will say that I am completely certain that she is essentially not an SB, as generally understood by this board.

At the time we met she was in dire straits and was down to very few options. She had little choice but to accept the sugar, and I went out of my way to frame each one as a gift as much as possible. We went a little over a year in a standard sugar arrangement, during which time her situation improved by several orders of magnitude. It's not ideal, but it can at least be called stable. It's been six months since there was sugar involved. She has left the door open to the notion that I might help her again if she gets underwater, but other than that there is no discussion of it.

She has high aspirations and know she has a lot of work to do to achieve them. "Entitled" is about the last adjective that applies to her. A lot of support she gets from me these days is more of the "mentor / life-coach" variety.

So while you brothers who work the bowl more actively than I can claim a lot more insight into the dynamics of a typical SB, I can confidently say from both my own instincts and what I've read here is that she's not at all typical. I'd have to say that this has all but completely moved into the category of "affair", but without the usual threat to the main relationship. I didn't want to go there, but here I am nevertheless.

[QUOTE]In your case it sounds like she has given you a perfect window of opportunity to do what you need to do. First of all, it was nice of her to be honest with you about what happened, but the fact that it happened is grounds for letting her go. And, since she is somewhat distracted / conflicted right now, you can do so without guilt of worrying about hurting her, you can devote all your energy to dealing with your own addiction to her.

I would agree with others that the best immediate medicine is to go shopping for a new one, one without all the strings. There's always another one out there that's hotter than the one before. Just try to get in the habit of moving to the next one before getting in too deep.[/QUOTE]For better or for worse, I'm already in pretty deep, and I don't think it's in much danger of getting deeper. We have both openly acknowledged that there is no long term future. There have been a couple of times where one or the other of us have considered ending it, and the emotional pain stirred up was about the same as this last episode. So the calculus is that having needs fulfilled for a longer amount of time won't have much effect on the pain of splitting up, so it keeps on for now.

Again, I could be wrong, and may come to regret all of these decisions. But I just wanted to share my cautionary tale. Especially the irony that even the unicorn carries its own issues.

(and this is not intended to be argumentative, just clarifying how my situation is atypical).

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2408624]If she stays work on separating yourself emotionally -not that she would know, but you have to be able to deal with LAB (life after Baby).[/QUOTE]LAB is a good way to put it. And frankly, as much affection as I have for her, it would mostly be the hole she'd leave behind that causes the most emotional distress. No reason to pop open GV to see if there are any messages. No looking forward to the mini-escapes in the FC. Nobody to talk to about the trials of a stressful family life.

But I'd be kidding myself at this point to deny that there wouldn't be a more personal element to the emotional trauma. That part I can work on. The gap left behind is more difficult, the only real option being another SB. Again, I don't consider that a viable option right now. When LAB finally does arrive, I'll probably opt to see how well the gap heals before I subject myself to the perils of the bowl.

Ok. It's time for the lurkers to report. I have gotten PM's from people I have never even seen post here. And that's fine. But its like the same 10 guys doing all the posting. So please, entertain us with your stories of hunting and conquest. Pics are also appreciated. Or how about everyone give us their version of a 10. Not in the FC, just in the looks dept.

lets see there are lots of possible 10's. How about 5'5" about 105. Dark hair, green eyes. Small face, hands and feet. B cups and medium to dark skin. Worked out physique and doesnt talk much. lol. Or all that on a black girl with naturally straight hair. sexy

Strikeout.

I recently traveled to one of the southern states. I had a week in town and wanted to meet up with a few ladies. But I was unsuccessful. I actually use my account on SA a few weeks in advance and to chat up with a few ladies to arrange something during my visit. I sent out some messages to a bunch of ladies. I managed to gain the interest of five ladies.

Lady 1: We talked and chatted for a while. We even did some video chats. I managed to meet her for dinner at a restaurant. She had agreed previously that we would hand out for some private time for a late night stay over. But she change her mind after dinner. Apparently she had some things to do and could only stay for a short period of time. The most I manage to get was a covered BJ, which did nothing for me. I was feeling good about this one and I thought I had found the one. I could meet up with for my future trips to area. I took a risk and give her some funds to handle a bill. She spoke with me a few time via text messages. But I never heard from her again. I don't know, I just thought she was different and that I could build some type of trust with her. And to show her I was legit. So it would be much easier for me the next trip. *****.

Lady 2: We talked constantly via text messages and even chatting on the phone a few times before the trip. She sound excited and ready to meet me. But when I arrived either she either busy hanging with her friends or she went silent in between text messages for a long period of time. The last time I manage to speak with her and ask if she was wanted to meet up, she stated that she had a doctors appointment and couldn't meet up. After that I didn't even bother talking with her anymore. It was a waste of my time.

Lady 3: We talked constantly, she sent me pictures every other day. This is the one that I thought I had nailed down for the trip. But a day before my trip, she went silent and I didn't hear back from her again until the trip was over. She knew I was coming to town and knew how long the trip was for. I don't even understand this one, I really thought she was serious about meeting. After all the pictures and constant messages back and forth.

Lady 4: I had this one designated as my back up straight to the FC type of deal. My plan was to only contact her if things didn't go well with the other ladies. After I wasn't getting the response I had hoped for from Lady 1 and Lady 2. I called her and she was willing to meet up right away at a hotel. We had talk before about me providing compensation but not an exact figure. Before she came she ask how much she was getting, so I replied how much you want. She said $$ I declined. It double the maximum amount I was willing to spend and that didn't even include the room. She said I could afford her, and I hanged up afterwards.

Lady 5: After things went bad with lady 4, I called up this lady. We hadn't talk for about two weeks. This was my last ditch attempt to salvage something from my one month membership for entertainment on the side for this particular trip. She was willing to meet and I got the directions to her place. But things didn't go as plan. My intentions was to leave immediately but something came up and I had to delay for about 1. 5 hrs. I finally made to her place. She came out and we chatting in the car for a few minutes. She said she was expecting me to come right away and that her roommate was on her way home from work. So, I asked about some action in the car. She was uncomfortable so we drove around looking for a secluded spot, I couldn't find anything. So she started talking about how her roommate was on her way right now and she had to go. But ask if I could give her some money to pay her phone bill. I basically told she didn't do anything and I don't see why I should pay a bill when she could even give a BJ, her complaint was that the car windows wasn't tinted.

I don't even know what to say other than to just call it a learning experience. You know to actually be able to tell which girls are actually serious about meeting. I think if I was local and had more time cultivate something I would had some success because a lot of the females lost interest after finding out that I would only be visiting. But I tried counteract it, with future trips to the town but I was unsuccessful.

*.

Walrus, I feel for you! I'm in the midst of trying to seperate from my unicorn. 5'9", 125#, beautiful long lt brown hair, no kids, great connection, perfect in my eyes. Too perfect, I'm always thinking about her, way too much. I've come to the same conclusion that the others are offering, find another one. #2 (21,5'4", 110 lbs) and #3 (MILF spinner) all doing fine and still in the regular rotation but not near the connection as #1. Loaded some credits on the SB site, 1st m&g tomorrow night. Ill update if she doesn't flake. I'm sure if I devoted half my baby energy towards the SO, things would be great. But then I would be stuck with an anti-spinner mid 50's love life. Yeh, that aint for me anymore. I've got the bug I guess.

[QUOTE=Walruscl;2408740]LAB is a good way to put it. And frankly, as much affection as I have for her, it would mostly be the hole she'd leave behind that causes the most emotional distress. No reason to pop open GV to see if there are any messages. No looking forward to the mini-escapes in the FC. Nobody to talk to about the trials of a stressful family life.

But I'd be kidding myself at this point to deny that there wouldn't be a more personal element to the emotional trauma. That part I can work on. The gap left behind is more difficult, the only real option being another SB. Again, I don't consider that a viable option right now. When LAB finally does arrive, I'll probably opt to see how well the gap heals before I subject myself to the perils of the bowl.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Walruscl;2408731] Again, I could be wrong, and may come to regret all of these decisions. But I just wanted to share my cautionary tale. Especially the irony that even the unicorn carries its own issues.
(and this is not intended to be argumentative, just clarifying how my situation is atypical).[/QUOTE]Understood. I actually thought she sounded atypical of a female in general when she so readily admitted to blowing a guy in the men's room. A lot of women (SB or not) have trouble being totally honest about the naughty things they do, and the fact that she came right out and told you says things about her that I can't really speculate about without knowing her. It could mean she has an exceptional amount of courage and integrity, or it could mean that she doesn't understand what raunchy behavior that is (I can't think of a less sanitary place to do anything sexual than a public restroom at a club), or it could mean something in between that nobody's thought of yet.

Actually the dilemma you're faced with right now doesn't seem all that terrible in the big scheme of things. I read about these guys with pregnancy scares, stalkers and extortionists and having been to those dark places myself in the past, it actually stresses me to read their stories and to watch them struggle with them. It seems to me you just have to figure out how you want to handle the situation in your own mind, so if it helps, you could always be glad she's got these other urges or activities going on that makes her not a direct threat to your household life.

I just know that when I look back at all the women that gave me headaches, internal dilemmas to struggle through, and what not, the main regret I have in retrospect is spending as much time with each one contemplating the situation I was in at the time. With almost everyone of them, the moment I made the conscious decision to stay away from them, I almost immediately hooked up with someone better. My big regret is not tearing myself away from them sooner. The only recent exception to that was when I split up for a while with my current GF. In that case I felt that, despite being free to tap into new and strange pussy, I was ultimately less happy than when I was together with her (thus the reconciliation). I figured that's how I knew I was really in love, when I missed her even as I was banging some new poon. If this girl is of that same ilk to you, then maybe she's worth the ongoing investment of time, but in my case it was only worth it to go back to my GF because I had made a decision to try and make a future with her. If I knew for sure it wasn't going to work out long-term, I'd drop her tomorrow and go back to sport fucking.

Speaking of 10's. This one lives a few blocks from me and agreed to meet. An admitted UTR with a full-time job. And she is pretty. Wish I could show you but need to protect her anonymity. She is an 8/10 for sure. It's very rare for me to get one this luscious. And I don't have her yet. But with a UTR I am going to get something. LOL. I guess most girls with a body like this, just can't help but get suspicious of any guys intentions. Sorta like being born rich.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]370645[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]370646[/ATTACH].

Is there a such thing as too much? The communication with my spinner fleeted. Amazing raunchy sex and I totally dominated her. It was awesome and then I got emotionally attached, which I suppose was my downfall. I jumped back in the bowl head on and lately have been taking no prisoners.

Last night, I met up with a 6/10, but amazing BJ. Once this girl gets started she never removes my cock from her mouth. I feel bad because I never offer her any $. We hit the bars up, and typically end the night at her place for the FC. Routinely, I leave out in the middle of the night.

This week, I've got several M&G's set up. I've never had to buy so many condoms in my life. I'm noticing I'm now having performance issues. I really have to step my game up in case another spinner comes through. With 8/10 - 10/10 SB's my adernaline is pumping so high that I perform a few hours straight. I'm afraid I might be draining myself out. I workout 2-3 times a week, but lately with the average SBs I don't have the all night drive.

Should I slow down or try to get a script for the Blue Diamond pills? Anyone know a reliable place to purchase them online. I've never tried them before.

The need for variety and experiencing the known that new pussy brings and how the new ones will respond to me is overwhelming my senses again.

To refresh, my current SB, has basically turned real GF. She is hands down madly in love with me, wants a life, future and to move away with me on a moments notice. She begs for my attention daily. She is a spinner, as crazy kinky sexually as they come, loyal, loving, but not without her own problems. Body a solid 9, face an 8, overall a meek, submissive, college girl who does not quit!

So this bodes a new question for the forum. I like to believe I have an unbelievable nose for a girl leading me on, being fake, If it goes real, I will test them in every conceivable way possible. I have done that with this girl and she keeps coming back. My contributions are now very minimal, but she does want me still to give her money, but she is NOT greedy and never asks. She also wants me to put her up in a place, my offer, but now she needs it, etc.

The question? Can girls like this really dupe even us more seasoned veterans? Or can they truly be this genuine? I feel some of her loyalty might be based out of being a somewhat fucked up emotionally and insecure as is often the case with many of these girls. But I also feel she is genuine and would make a long life with me. As long as I could get my dick hard that is, as there is no way in hell this one goes without sex for more then a day or two.

I'm on the fence about letting her go. It will likely get messy, but I just have visions of fucking random women, getting all the experience I was not allowed in my youngers years. That temptation is overpowering what long standing SB has meant to me. I feel dark and evil in a way, but I am a man with a hunger for variety. Sexually. She would be ANY of you monger's dream. She will do any fucking thing to please her man and she does in such a way. She begs for my cum in a passive, feminine docile, submissive way. She just has that true nature about her we all dream of. But at the end of the day, even a girl like this can get old. I know if I let her go, I'll have some regrets. I'll want her back, I know myself.

Help me walk away brothers. I need variety.

Rant.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2409602]
Help me walk away brothers. I need variety.
[/QUOTE]In terms of whether they are genuine or fake, at the end of the day it doesn't matter much if they believe what they said at the time they said it. They change their mind so often that it makes the truths of yesterday irrelevant to the truths of tomorrow.

As far as motive to walk away, I can only tell you that in all the girls I have dated or banged (it's quite a few, because I've been sexually active since my early teens), there is not one that I intentionally cut loose that I regret doing so. There are a couple that just didn't work out for various reasons that were great women and I miss them sometimes, but in terms of the ones where I just said "I'm done", it never did anything but benefit me. They almost all begged me to stay at first, but what happened over time was a lot more interesting. After their pain died down, most of them either contacted me out of the blue (or maybe I saw them somewhere later) saying they just missed the sex and wanted to get together just for a retro fuck. I will say that sometimes during a retro fuck, you have to be prepared for them to start crying, reminisce about old times and the mistakes they think they made, etc. But it's their nature to try to reach for more. Women want what they can't have. If you've dated them in the past and they developed strong feelings for you, those feelings will never really go away and if you bang them occasionally afterward you may need to deal with their emotions on a smaller scale, but if that doesn't bother you, then just know that dumping them only makes them more attracted to you, so their pussy will continue to be available when you want it, at least until they get involved with someone else seriously.

The only thing I don't like about retro fucks is the potential emotional drama after the sex, but that is very specific to the individual and they don't all do that. There have been many cases where I said point blank "well, you know I ended our relationship because I don't want to be serious with anyone, I just want to play around", and sometimes they respond to the effect of "well that's fine I'm okay with just being fuck buddies". It just depends on their outlook on life and what else they have going on.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2409640]In terms of whether they are genuine or fake, at the end of the day it doesn't matter much if they believe what they said at the time they said it. They change their mind so often that it makes the truths of yesterday irrelevant to the truths of tomorrow.

As far as motive to walk away, I can only tell you that in all the girls I have dated or banged (it's quite a few, because I've been sexually active since my early teens), there is not one that I intentionally cut loose that I regret doing so. There are a couple that just didn't work out for various reasons that were great women and I miss them sometimes, but in terms of the ones where I just said "I'm done", it never did anything but benefit me. They almost all begged me to stay at first, but what happened over time was a lot more interesting. After their pain died down, most of them either contacted me out of the blue (or maybe I saw them somewhere later) saying they just missed the sex and wanted to get together just for a retro fuck. I will say that sometimes during a retro fuck, you have to be prepared for them to start crying, reminisce about old times and the mistakes they think they made, etc. But it's their nature to try to reach for more. Women want what they can't have. If you've dated them in the past and they developed strong feelings for you, those feelings will never really go away and if you bang them occasionally afterward you may need to deal with their emotions on a smaller scale, but if that doesn't bother you, then just know that dumping them only makes them more attracted to you, so their pussy will continue to be available when you want it, at least until they get involved with someone else seriously.

The only thing I don't like about retro fucks is the potential emotional drama after the sex, but that is very specific to the individual and they don't all do that. There have been many cases where I said point blank "well, you know I ended our relationship because I don't want to be serious with anyone, I just want to play around", and sometimes they respond to the effect of "well that's fine I'm okay with just being fuck buddies". It just depends on their outlook on life and what else they have going on.[/QUOTE]As always such sound and thorough advise from Jez! The part about never having regretted leaving one, kind of hit home with me. I have found the same to be true, but memory always fades me on that front and I think no girl better can come along and like you said, they usually do. Very true, in that women always want, what they can't have.

I'm parting ways and firing back up my SA account so hopefully I can have a new girl lined up to dive into to help me forget. One thing that I will not miss, is how sex, albeit on par with the best I've had, was quickly turning to work with this girl. How the fuck can a girl cum 30-50 times without tiring? My arms, cock, tongue and brain is seriously warped. I need a nice juicy tight responsive pussy that melts after she cums 3-4 times and needs some cuddles or something for a while. This girl wore me out.

I have an old friend NSA friend from Richmond. Cute petite black girl spinner, upper 20's. Who is having some problems in OH.

She needs to get out -- and quite frankly do a casual date or two and get fucked a few times. Some modest $$ will also help her.

She is very intelligent and does a mean massage!

I introduced her to SA. And helped set her profile up so it reads well.

If there are any guys out there (SMs only) that are white gentlemen -- salt and pepper hair also helps -- then I will try to get you to the front of the line.

I will only hand out her SA I'd number to those I can see are local to her -- and of course you need an SA account.

Thanks in advance - please PM me.

GW.

A couple weeks ago, I found myself doing two back-to-back M&Gs, both non-local:

The first was in her early 20's, very cute to me personally but I could see why some guys would not go for her. Never had a SD before, previous M&Gs with other guys had been disappointing. But through texts we have really good chemistry so I'm thinking this could be a keeper. We met for lunch and it went great. Couldn't do much else besides a M&G because she had to be elsewhere, but I thought for sure this would be the start of a great relationship. But since then her communications have been slowly but surely dropping off. I suspect she's getting cold feet about getting physical with an older guy but she still enjoys talking to me on some levels.

The second was all but guaranteed to go to FC right after M&G. Her pics I had seen must have been older as she had definitely put on a bit of weight, but not enough to make her look unattractive. She's mid 20's, single mom, sex fiend, submissive, just wants to please daddy. We had a good M&G, went off to the FC where we spent half the night. She conveyed nearly 100% submissiveness and willing to try things she's never done before. A bit heaver than I like once the clothes come off, but still not bad at all. Her personality, skills, and eagerness make up for her lack of a petite body. We plan on seeing each other again very soon.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2409602]The need for variety and experiencing the known that new pussy brings and how the new ones will respond to me is overwhelming my senses again.

Help me walk away brothers. I need variety.

Rant.[/QUOTE]Deeds, I always think a bird in the hand, etc. Can you reduce your availability to her in some way while still enjoying her incredible assets? The other way to avoid a complete meltdown is Hollywood's way. Admit to a desire to bring other players on board.

The next option if you going for a full break is to line her up with Board members in your area to provide continuity of care.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2409602]The need for variety and experiencing the known that new pussy brings and how the new ones will respond to me is overwhelming my senses again.

To refresh, my current SB, has basically turned real GF. She is hands down madly in love with me, wants a life, future and to move away with me on a moments notice. She begs for my attention daily. She is a spinner, as crazy kinky sexually as they come, loyal, loving, but not without her own problems. Body a solid 9, face an 8, overall a meek, submissive, college girl who does not quit!

So this bodes a new question for the forum. I like to believe I have an unbelievable nose for a girl leading me on, being fake, If it goes real, I will test them in every conceivable way possible. I have done that with this girl and she keeps coming back. My contributions are now very minimal, but she does want me still to give her money, but she is NOT greedy and never asks. She also wants me to put her up in a place, my offer, but now she needs it, etc.

The question? Can girls like this really dupe even us more seasoned veterans? Or can they truly be this genuine? I feel some of her loyalty might be based out of being a somewhat fucked up emotionally and insecure as is often the case with many of these girls. But I also feel she is genuine and would make a long life with me. As long as I could get my dick hard that is, as there is no way in hell this one goes without sex for more then a day or two.

I'm on the fence about letting her go. It will likely get messy, but I just have visions of fucking random women, getting all the experience I was not allowed in my youngers years. That temptation is overpowering what long standing SB has meant to me. I feel dark and evil in a way, but I am a man with a hunger for variety. Sexually. She would be ANY of you monger's dream. She will do any fucking thing to please her man and she does in such a way. She begs for my cum in a passive, feminine docile, submissive way. She just has that true nature about her we all dream of. But at the end of the day, even a girl like this can get old. I know if I let her go, I'll have some regrets. I'll want her back, I know myself.

Help me walk away brothers. I need variety.

Rant.[/QUOTE]It has been my experience that they can do a 180 on you and forget the past. It is the estrogen they live with. Ultimately I've found the best way is to not get too close. Close is okay, but "too" is what I'm talking about. At the end of the day, like in business, you've got to have walk away power from a deal.

[QUOTE=Mike7794;2409841]At the end of the day, like in business, you've got to have walk away power from a deal.[/QUOTE]Truer words were never spoken. You have to ready to walk even if it hurts, and sometimes it does.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2405669]So, while it's true that it's unfair to say she is always a hardened pro if she invites you over for the M&G, I'd say this is not a typical scenario with a responsible young lady, and in most cases we should be suspicious of any girl who doesn't want to meet in a public place first.[/QUOTE]I appreciate your perspective. The truth is, I was nervous as heck going to her apartment. That being said, we did not have a whole lot of conversation before we met. A couple of emails on the website, and then a brief exchange of texts. This was a number of years ago. But she was not looking for a green card, as she was not interested in marriage or children. She was just a grad student or post doc fellow (I forget which) working in a low wage job in her field, in an expensive city. She needed help, and since she didn't really date, sex. It worked out great for her. But like I said, she was older, and I think that made all the difference in both our comfort levels. But she was clear she didn't event want to be my girlfriend. But we drank a lot of wine, ate a lot of cheese and crackers and had a great time.

So while we are on the subject of where to go to meet a POT, I am extremely uncomforatble picking a young one up at a parent's house. Today, a very hot early 20's POT told me she currently is without car, and I would have to come pick her up at Mom and Dads. It's pretty weird for me. Any wisdom on this topic? She tried to reassure me they would not be coming out to meet me or anything but still.

Norm!!

[QUOTE=NormGerd;2409955]
Today, a very hot early 20's POT told me she currently is without car, and I would have to come pick her up at Mom and Dads. It's pretty weird for me. Any wisdom on this topic? She tried to reassure me they would not be coming out to meet me or anything but still.
Norm!![/QUOTE]I haven't had that particular scenario. Someone here in the thread has posted about same, before though. Maybe they can chime in.

Tell her to be out front, roll up to her, open the door, she gets in, drive away. Wave to mom and dad as you leave. As long as you she and you act as it is normal, they will too.

[QUOTE=NormGerd;2409955]I appreciate your perspective. The truth is, I was nervous as heck going to her apartment. That being said, we did not have a whole lot of conversation before we met. A couple of emails on the website, and then a brief exchange of texts. This was a number of years ago. But she was not looking for a green card, as she was not interested in marriage or children. She was just a grad student or post doc fellow (I forget which) working in a low wage job in her field, in an expensive city. She needed help, and since she didn't really date, sex. It worked out great for her. But like I said, she was older, and I think that made all the difference in both our comfort levels. But she was clear she didn't event want to be my girlfriend. But we drank a lot of wine, ate a lot of cheese and crackers and had a great time.

So while we are on the subject of where to go to meet a POT, I am extremely uncomforatble picking a young one up at a parent's house. Today, a very hot early 20's POT told me she currently is without car, and I would have to come pick her up at Mom and Dads. It's pretty weird for me. Any wisdom on this topic? She tried to reassure me they would not be coming out to meet me or anything but still.

Norm!![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2409023]Understood. I actually thought she sounded atypical of a female in general when she so readily admitted to blowing a guy in the men's room. A lot of women (SB or not) have trouble being totally honest about the naughty things they do, and the fact that she came right out and told you says things about her that I can't really speculate about without knowing her. It could mean she has an exceptional amount of courage and integrity, or it could mean that she doesn't understand what raunchy behavior that is (I can't think of a less sanitary place to do anything sexual than a public restroom at a club), or it could mean something in between that nobody's thought of yet.[/QUOTE]She has honesty and integrity to a fault. Honesty was the one thing she insisted on very early. (somehow she justified the cognitive dissonance that honesty wasn't an option with my SO).

As for the raunch factor, her immediate comment after telling me about the BJ in the restroom was: ". And I would [B]not[/B] recommend it, by the way!" Then again, you can look back in the thread to see some of the way-out-there things we've done. And that's not the half of it, since I do have my scruples and don't want to overshare for all the usual reasons.

She's a unicorn because she's a perfectly sweet girl, has a good moral compass on the issues that matter, and can carry an intelligent conversation. Yet has a sex drive that is just crazy.

[QUOTE]Actually the dilemma you're faced with right now doesn't seem all that terrible in the big scheme of things. I read about these guys with pregnancy scares, stalkers and extortionists and having been to those dark places myself in the past, it actually stresses me to read their stories and to watch them struggle with them. It seems to me you just have to figure out how you want to handle the situation in your own mind, so if it helps, you could always be glad she's got these other urges or activities going on that makes her not a direct threat to your household life.[/QUOTE]I've been [B]extremely[/B] lucky to have found her amongst the other options that would have ranged from unsatisfying to outright disasters in the making. And at this point it's not much of a dilemma. We're back on track for now, my anxiety about it going the other way has passed.

After window shopping for the past 3 months, yesterday I decided to jump back in with a premium membership. And what do you know? I have 3 M&G's within 2 hours. And, 2 POTS which I will explain after the M&G's.

Tonight was #1. 27 y/o 7/9/?/? Pick her up at her place (can't drive now because of a dui) and we go to the other side of town to a Dunkin Donuts for coffee. Turns out she is the ex of a guy I know from the neighboring FD. Yikes! Well, I figure I'm going to plow ahead anyway. Pretty girl, big tits and a mouth I would love to have around my cock. We sat and talked for almost an hour before we got to the sugar discussion. Here's where it goes bad. She says she has had a couple of SD's in the past and they gave her $400 per date. I counter with $150. That pretty much ended it all. She wanted me to meet her half way but I decided to stand my ground. She's going to think about it and if she changes her mind she will let me know. I take that as NEXT!

Tomorrow afternoon I have a cocktail M&G with a 44 y/o ebony milf. She reminds me of Diamond Jackson if any of you guys watch porn. Not exactly what I am craving, but I think she could be a nice find. We will see how this one goes. I have found that the older one will sometimes accept lower sugar and host since they are usually not inundated with e-mails and offers from hundreds of other mongers.

Pot#3 is a 26 y/o 10/9/ Breakfast with her on Wednesday. E-mailing and texting with her has been very easy. We have not discussed sugar, but I now have a feeling she might be GPS. Another one that has had a SD before. This seems to be a common denominator in my experience. Anyway, depending how well we hit it off I may go up to $200 if she is hosting just to see how good she is. Of course, even that may not be anywhere near enough. I hope this works out as she has told me several times how she is very open minded. And we all know what that means.

So, now on to the other POTs. The warden and I are planning to move to Florida the end of this year. We are closing on a house the first week of April, so I know exactly where we are going to be. That being said, I have started the hunt in that area. I have come across 2 pots so far. The first is a 38 y/o MILF 7/8/?/? I have e-mailed her and spoke on the phone so far. Honestly, I'm not really feeling it with her but I guess I will keep her on the backburner just in case.

The other pot is a 29 y/o 8/9/?/? Very cute 5'3" average build blonde. I spent much of today e-mailing with her. I find her extremely easy to talk to. She says she is tired of dating guys her own age. The typical stories of how they don't know how to treat a lady her age. Another one that has had a SD before, so I am worried about the sugar discussion. She said she has had a bad experience in the past, stalker maybe?, so she's not ready to text or provide any more pics than what is on her profile. Since I have time on this one I have decided to be the patient Daddy for her. I get the feeling if we can agree to an deal this could be a very nice ride for me. I plan on seeing her after the warden leaves since I will be there for a few weeks without her getting the place ready to move into.

So, my brothers, this brings another question to mind. Do you guys find that if they have had a SD before, regardless of age, the sugar expectation becomes much higher? I seem to be running into that more these days. My usual way of handling it is to explain that I can't afford that much at one time. But, with the lower sugar per date I can see her more often and thus the total could actually end up being more. Of course, that is a lie, but that's what I tell them. So far, it's only worked once. Is there a better way to handle that?

As always, thanks for any advice or comments. I will post the outcome of the above as things progress.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2410129]I haven't had that particular scenario. Someone here in the thread has posted about same, before though. Maybe they can chime in.[/QUOTE]I am new to SD world. Just started this month in Detroit. I picked up a young girl from her parents place. It felt weird, I had a good time with her at my place that evening.

Been there, done that. I mentioned before about mom peeking out the door to see where her baby was headed out too. I pulled up in front of the apartment, WAY too close. I'm sure she could tell my eye color when she looked straight at me. Lesson learned, always picked her up a few places down after that. I've seen one of my current babies at her apartment shared with dad. Very close call with aunt stopping by just as we were pulling out. Not much I can say about that one beyond stupid.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2410129]I haven't had that particular scenario. Someone here in the thread has posted about same, before though. Maybe they can chime in.[/QUOTE]

M&G as planned this evening at a nice local bar. Early 30's (oldest baby thus far), 5'4", very well put together. Masters degree, very well spoken, actually talks non stop! Open to any topic and we explored a lot of areas. Looking forward to next meeting, wow, just what I needed to get my mind off of number 1. Walrus, try stepping away from yours for a bit, it may give you another viewpoint.

[QUOTE=Bowtie;2408945]Walrus, I feel for you! I'm in the midst of trying to seperate from my unicorn. 5'9", 125#, beautiful long lt brown hair, no kids, great connection, perfect in my eyes. Too perfect, I'm always thinking about her, way too much. I've come to the same conclusion that the others are offering, find another one. #2 (21,5'4", 110 lbs) and #3 (MILF spinner) all doing fine and still in the regular rotation but not near the connection as #1. Loaded some credits on the SB site, 1st m&g tomorrow night. Ill update if she doesn't flake. I'm sure if I devoted half my baby energy towards the SO, things would be great. But then I would be stuck with an anti-spinner mid 50's love life. Yeh, that aint for me anymore. I've got the bug I guess.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FyrGuy33;2410215]Since I have time on this one I have decided to be the patient Daddy for her. I get the feeling if we can agree to an deal this could be a very nice ride for me. [/QUOTE]One thing I have learned on this board and only recently put into practice is its ok to invest some time here and there with a reluctant girl. Many times they back out but sometimes they do come through. As long as I am not spending cash to do it. Here and there I will throw a $ at some girl hoping to get lucky. I have done it 3 times in the last six months. All to no avail. I have a nerdy NP spinner that is slowly coming around that I have been messaging with for 6 weeks. I used to just go straight for the FC everytime so my percentage of UTR's was higher. And I am not bored of them by any means but I like to have first time NP's as well. Even if I have to wait a little.

In the past the idea of spending weeks to woo some SB seemed ludicrous to me. As so many throw themselves at you. Even first timers. Plus I am a big believer in instant attractions. It doesn't hurt if you feel like the girl just cant wait to be touched by you.

Also I am totally on budget this month as my ATF's discounting has offset any extra expenditures. Any reckless spending by me at this time would shame me. So I have to stay focused. I am tempted to drop SD4M except there aare a lot of hot UTR's on there, So still using both.

I wouldn't normally put this kind of effort into a SB, but, since I can't meet up with her until the end of April anyway I figure it's worth making the time investment via e-mail and text to build up chemistry and try to lure her in. A bad experience with a former SD will make any of these girls very cautious moving forward. That is where she is at. So, I need to build up her trust and fortunately have the time to do so. She is very sweet and fun to talk with.

Parents: Be very careful when dating 18 -20 yr old Girls and picking then up at home. I did so one time and nothing happened. The Daddy was in the yard working on a jacked up truck and I slid by 20 ft away. Any (normal) parent would think it extremely weird and objectional for a senior citizen to pickup his teen daughter --for what?? You do not want a confrontation. I advise parking out of sight and let the SB walk to your location. A 10/10 Hispanic I had a M&G with walked 1 mile since her Daddy would have flipped if she was doing this.

Experienced SBs: Funny that this comes up on the Board today. I am in talks now with a cute 20 yr old whose former SD paid her a lot more than my offer. It is hefty but not GPS, so I can believe it to be true. Actually, I paid my former SBs more than I offer now but my finances are not as secure either.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2410687]Parents: Be very careful when dating 18 -20 yr old Girls and picking then up at home. I did so one time and nothing happened. The Daddy was in the yard working on a jacked up truck and I slid by 20 ft away. Any (normal) parent would think it extremely weird and objectional for a senior citizen to pickup his teen daughter --for what?? You do not want a confrontation. I advise parking out of sight and let the SB walk to your location. A 10/10 Hispanic I had a M&G with walked 1 mile since her Daddy would have flipped if she was doing this.

Experienced SBs: Funny that this comes up on the Board today. I am in talks now with a cute 20 yr old whose former SD paid her a lot more than my offer. It is hefty but not GPS, so I can believe it to be true. Actually, I paid my former SBs more than I offer now but my finances are not as secure either.[/QUOTE]I have never found this to be an issue. Just park a couple blocks away or meet at a local public place of their choice. I have had the approval of a few parent over the years as well. As the apple doesn't always fall too far from the tree.

Long story short, I laid down the foundation for the dump so I can get back into the selective sugar bowl. (see prior post).

My SB / GF went nuts. Had a total breakdown. Went something like this. Her clutching me, scratching at me, trying to kiss my face off as she trembled in tears running down her body crying out she's]d wait for me forever and could never let another man so much as touch her, I showed her what love is and to be wanted for real. On and on the breakdown went. Screamed out all her deep seeded emotional issues. Tore off in her car screaming, crying and came back. Laid down on the ground trembling, crying until I comforted her. Then she asked me to dominate her one last time. Said she would go home and wait for me to figure myself out. Crying out how she could see her entire life with me and so on. Can't go five minutes without contact from me. As we lay on the ground making out and I'm about to fuck her right there, some cops showed up and shined their lights on us. Asked is everything was ok, then believe it or not, the one cop, "said resume, just keep it decent. Haha. We fucked right there, my knees are raw from the ground. Crazy night.

I think it's safe to say this girl is real with me. But I'm holding me ground and can't do a life of craziness. The girl is golden and ten years earlier, I'd take her away. I'm just too old for this kind of life of drama and such. I feel like shit today, but it has to be done.

Go silent. Go deep.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2410807]Long story short, I laid down the foundation for the dump so I can get back into the selective sugar bowl. (see prior post).

My SB / GF went nuts. Had a total breakdown. Went something like this. Her clutching me, scratching at me, trying to kiss my face off as she trembled in tears running down her body crying out she's]d wait for me forever and could never let another man so much as touch her, I showed her what love is and to be wanted for real. On and on the breakdown went. Screamed out all her deep seeded emotional issues. Tore off in her car screaming, crying and came back. Laid down on the ground trembling, crying until I comforted her. Then she asked me to dominate her one last time. Said she would go home and wait for me to figure myself out. Crying out how she could see her entire life with me and so on. Can't go five minutes without contact from me. As we lay on the ground making out and I'm about to fuck her right there, some cops showed up and shined their lights on us. Asked is everything was ok, then believe it or not, the one cop, "said resume, just keep it decent. Haha. We fucked right there, my knees are raw from the ground. Crazy night.

I think it's safe to say this girl is real with me. But I'm holding me ground and can't do a life of craziness. The girl is golden and ten years earlier, I'd take her away. I'm just too old for this kind of life of drama and such. I feel like shit today, but it has to be done.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=GuyWoodson;2410823]Go silent. Go deep.[/QUOTE]I got five days to go silent and deep. Hopefully that's enough for her to move on. Her last words, "I'll never let you go or give up. " Ugh!

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2410825]I got five days to go silent and deep. Hopefully that's enough for her to move on. Her last words, "I'll never let you go or give up. " Ugh![/QUOTE]This is the danger of letting them get to emotionally involved. As much as we can avoid doing that, women tend to get more involved. As long as she desn't have any personal info and could not track you down, going silent is the best answer. Be diligent my friend.

I had a very pleasant M&G this afternoon with the Ebony MILF. Pics were accurate as she does look like Diamond Jackson. Very nice personality and we were hitting it off just fine. I make my offer of $150 per meet. She is going to think about it and let me know. She says it's her first time attempting a SB relationship. Could be as she seemd totally awkward with the sugar discussion.

On to the breakfast M&G tomorrow morning. I'm hoping this one is not out of my budget.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2410807]Long story short, I laid down the foundation for the dump so I can get back into the selective sugar bowl. (see prior post).

My SB / GF went nuts. Had a total breakdown. Went something like this. Her clutching me, scratching at me, trying to kiss my face off as she trembled in tears running down her body crying out she's]d wait for me forever and could never let another man so much as touch her, I showed her what love is and to be wanted for real. On and on the breakdown went. Screamed out all her deep seeded emotional issues. Tore off in her car screaming, crying and came back. Laid down on the ground trembling, crying until I comforted her. Then she asked me to dominate her one last time. Said she would go home and wait for me to figure myself out. Crying out how she could see her entire life with me and so on. Can't go five minutes without contact from me. As we lay on the ground making out and I'm about to fuck her right there, some cops showed up and shined their lights on us. Asked is everything was ok, then believe it or not, the one cop, "said resume, just keep it decent. Haha. We fucked right there, my knees are raw from the ground. Crazy night.

I think it's safe to say this girl is real with me. But I'm holding me ground and can't do a life of craziness. The girl is golden and ten years earlier, I'd take her away. I'm just too old for this kind of life of drama and such. I feel like shit today, but it has to be done.[/QUOTE]I think I'd just send 'them a text next time. Even with the sex it doesn't seem worth it.

Brethren,

I've been in the bowl for only a few months. I'm late 30's. It dawned on me today that I'll probably never date my age again. The young girls are pulling out all the stops in the FC nowadays. In my 20's I was not getting this level of sex or oral. I have no idea how or why, but these 20 year old spinners are the absolute truth.

My one SB that I lost and came back is more sexual than ever and I have two 10/10 spinners for M&G this week and both seem like the FC is on the table after the preliminary M&G. My inbox has been flooded lately. I'm not sure if it's something with this time of the college year or if it's just the mid-Atlantic area.

I'm definitely getting more interest since I used a professional headshot on my profile. I know I compromise discretion, but if you calculate the level of p $$why per volume I don't give two f-ks.

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2410807]Long story short, I laid down the foundation for the dump so I can get back into the selective sugar bowl. (see prior post).

My SB / GF went nuts. Had a total breakdown. Went something like this. Her clutching me, scratching at me, trying to kiss my face off as she trembled in tears running down her body crying out she's]d wait for me forever and could never let another man so much as touch her, I showed her what love is and to be wanted for real. On and on the breakdown went. Screamed out all her deep seeded emotional issues. Tore off in her car screaming, crying and came back. Laid down on the ground trembling, crying until I comforted her. Then she asked me to dominate her one last time. Said she would go home and wait for me to figure myself out. Crying out how she could see her entire life with me and so on. Can't go five minutes without contact from me. As we lay on the ground making out and I'm about to fuck her right there, some cops showed up and shined their lights on us. Asked is everything was ok, then believe it or not, the one cop, "said resume, just keep it decent. Haha. We fucked right there, my knees are raw from the ground. Crazy night.

I think it's safe to say this girl is real with me. But I'm holding me ground and can't do a life of craziness. The girl is golden and ten years earlier, I'd take her away. I'm just too old for this kind of life of drama and such. I feel like shit today, but it has to be done.[/QUOTE]Whoa. Stage 5 clinger. Must cut her loose, and when you do you might have to look over your shoulder for a while.

Glad to hear you about your success. As a cautionary note, you may be at a point in your career where you don't feel the need to advance further, but a professional headshot makes it much easier for a jilted baby to track you down. Especially if you're using it, or one similar to it, on your linked in profile.

While you may be in a profession that doesn't care about whether you play in the bowl, I doubt any employer wants to have their workplace disrupted with jilted babies showing up angry in the middle of the work day. Also, while your career aspirations may not be affected now, your aspirations may change in the future. IMHO, getting random babies to the FC is much easier than rebuilding a career or trying to fix ones professional reputation (unless you're a career politician).

I am sure you already considered all this, but as a cautionary tale to other younger brothers, I wanted to provide food for thought. It also probably helps that based on your prior posts, you seem to be willing to provide an allowance that is five to ten times the norm in the mid-atlantic (please correct me if I'm wrong but I vaguely remember you mentioning that you had pulled out wars of hundred dollar bills to cover an allowance). Nothing wrong with that, but again, it may be that much of your success may also be tied to your generosity on top of adding the professional headshot).

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2411570]Brethren,

I've been in the bowl for only a few months. I'm late 30's. It dawned on me today that I'll probably never date my age again. The young girls are pulling out all the stops in the FC nowadays. In my 20's I was not getting this level of sex or oral. I have no idea how or why, but these 20 year old spinners are the absolute truth.

My one SB that I lost and came back is more sexual than ever and I have two 10/10 spinners for M&G this week and both seem like the FC is on the table after the preliminary M&G. My inbox has been flooded lately. I'm not sure if it's something with this time of the college year or if it's just the mid-Atlantic area.

I'm definitely getting more interest since I used a professional headshot on my profile. I know I compromise discretion, but if you calculate the level of p $$why per volume I don't give two f-ks.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=HoyaSvnFgr;2411570]Brethren,

I've been in the bowl for only a few months. I'm late 30's. It dawned on me today that I'll probably never date my age again. The young girls are pulling out all the stops in the FC nowadays. In my 20's I was not getting this level of sex or oral. I have no idea how or why, but these 20 year old spinners are the absolute truth.

My one SB that I lost and came back is more sexual than ever and I have two 10/10 spinners for M&G this week and both seem like the FC is on the table after the preliminary M&G. My inbox has been flooded lately. I'm not sure if it's something with this time of the college year or if it's just the mid-Atlantic area.

I'm definitely getting more interest since I used a professional headshot on my profile. I know I compromise discretion, but if you calculate the level of p $$why per volume I don't give two f-ks.[/QUOTE]Attractiveness in the sugar bowl is based on the following factors: (you might differ with the order).

1) allowance offered.

2) appearance.

3) age.

4) personality.

Here's an example. I went to Tampa for a strip club binge for a few days with a studly business associate 35 yrs younger. Except for age I would say he and I are of equal attractiveness (#1,2,and 4). I might as well have been invisible. The girls were circling the chair in which ruled. I found it understandable but mildly annoying.

My point being, a young SD only 10 yrs older than the target audience will always prevail over us older gents. And someone throwing out Benjamins will rule over age. If you do both you are unstoppable.

So us older SDs who are on a tight budget, even if we are dashing (think Robert Redford) have to have more game.

And I agree about age. I would never date anyone IRL older than 30 if I were single.