"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

My Drive is satisfied with twice / week. My performance is dictated by chemicals. Actually, if the Dick is hard the drive is there LOL.

So my full on Sugaring approach is based on the time and financial availability, which at the moment is one to two times / week. Chemically, I can sustain an erection for 3 hours strait, but can only Cum once. I've never had the luck / skill to have multiple O's. How nice would that be? I read that many of you guys are able to do that. So after delivering my load I lose the desire to keep on even though the hard on continues. As JL said, power pounding allows me to delay orgasm for a long time. If she likes it and responds with appropriate screaming and hollering I love it. But I personally slow it down to a slow sensual pump with deep and passionate kissing when I am ready to let the big dog eat. Often I would Cum, then continue in multiple positions --whatever my SB needs and wants to get her nutt (s) . Fortunately (for my needs) I have never had a Baby whose needs far exceeded mine. I like delivering multiple O's to her delaying mine until I am ready to finish it and she seems satiated.

As always YMMV.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2400446]My Drive is satisfied with twice / week. [/QUOTE]FYI blood pressure medicine can cause ed and lower your testostorone levels. Found this out the hard way. Diuretics turned me into a spaghetti noodle kinda scary.

Went out and saw the cross legged girl from yesterdays post. We met in a public place and I could see her coming from a block away with that perfect pixie body of hers. All 5'4' and 102 lbs of it looking like my dream come true. A 25 year old island girl. We went for a quick bite and then drove till I found a quiet deserted spot nearby. This led to a 2 hour makeout session in the car with lots of OTC action. She said she was on her period and that she hadn't shaved. So it was a double no go. In the end I gave her 40 for a wax and a planned FC date for midweek.

No matter how many girls I see, when I find a tiny spinner with awesome kissing skills its game on. She is an SB with one prior SD that ended a year ago. Hasn't had sex in 2 months, so I am expecting a wild ride. I give her an 8 all around so far. We talked a lot about sex and I also told her about having a couple other SB's as we had the condom discussion as well. But we are all good and ready to rock.

After yesterdays lackluster performance in the FC I can see it was all about the chemistry. This girl today had me hard just off her kissing skills. A young guy could get hard looking at Macys ads for Juniors. But this old timer needs the total package.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2400434]This spinner white girl is what I like! It goes to show that we each have our own needs, wants, and styles.[/QUOTE]Her body is fine. Its more about her skills and personality. She may have a better body than the girl below, even though they are the same height and weight. The white girls is more evenly distributed with a very flat tummy. But the girl today was like ooh la la over the top sexy sexy sexy. Just having a cute white girl riding on top while I reach around and deeply finger her ass isn't always enough.

This is why it works when it works. Just got this now.

"A $100 a date is completely reasonable and makes sense considering you are looking for a connection with someone".

FYI blood pressure medicine can cause ed and lower your testostorone levels. Found this out the hard way. Diuretics turned me into a spaghetti noodle kinda scary.

Same drugs I'm on. Same result.

I ended up buying Cialis from China and I take them like candy when things are going crazy. Hell of a lot cheaper than the real stuff and only use when I need it.

The girls in KH8 love it. ( A strip Bar in LA where HWG lives... )

Normus Johnson.

Got a M&G with the one on the right for tonite. Another legit dancer in hollywood. The smoking hot one on the left is her sister I think. Anyway she is so excited. She is 20, 5'3" and tiny. The M&G from yesterday will recommence on Friday for the real thing. She is getting waxed on wednesday to prepare. Can't wait for that one. And my ATF is suddenly hospitalized. It may be a while till I get to see her. Without my ATF and my MILF long gone my time is suddenly open to meet new babes.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2393701]This one agreed to do the M&G in the FC. I guess that makes her a UTR, but I post any girl on here that was met on a SD site. She is about a 7, but the pics make her look like an 8. Maybe she will surprise me. When they are 18 I cut them a little slack.[/QUOTE]How did it go with this girl? I messaged her a while back but ended up getting together with another girl instead.

[QUOTE=DavidTheSancho;2401936]How did it go with this girl? I messaged her a while back but ended up getting together with another girl instead.[/QUOTE]She messaged me and said she was ready to hook up asap. And then nothing. Go figure. The one I just posted below had dinner with me tonite. She had a perfect little body. If you like little girls that is. Might see her again as she only lived 10 minutes away and she seemed pretty chill.

Ok, ole buddies, some of the stuff being written here, is questionable at least. I mean we all long for the days of the past when we could literally shoot our load 5-7 times in a night, but I doubt any of us over 40 still have that capacity.

For the average SB, some self control, lasting it out, the experience we have gained, maybe being able to go a few rounds throughout the night and morning is suffice. But what I'm talking about is that one in a hundred true nympho, who once her motor gets going, if it's not already simmering all the time to begin with, never shuts down. The problem is, girls like this, know they are this way and will generally develop a nose for seeking compatible men to fuck. They end up having been with lots of men who can keep up and then when they get with one of us, declining men due to age, they are not completely satisfied.

The last SB I was with would typically go something like this. I would rip her clothes off, pin her down in some fashion and finger and go down on her until she came at least 4-5 times, sometimes with toys, but those usually came later on. She enjoyed the vigorous two finger Gspot stuff that would make her squirt and as you know, that can be tiring, almost as much as fucking itself. She liked her pussy fingered really hard and fast and that is demanding physically. So in this process, while I might have had a rock hard erection to begin with, due to the workout I was giving her it would fade. After maybe 20-30 minutes of this and her having had several orgasms, shed start begging me to fuck her. Only I wasn't ready now and she could not comprehend this. She got frustrated and would say things like, "how can you make me cum like that so much and not be hard and turned on for me. That right there is undoubtedly something that would have been the case if I were still 25 or so. At this point, I need a little direct stimulation and it seemed to annoy her. So there is one difference.

So anyhow, she'd play with me for a bit and I'd be hard and fuck the living shit out of her until I was winded and it was time for me to either cum, or lose my erection from being tired. (this is where I think being in great cardio shape would definitely have helped. As Jez mentioned) by fucking her this way, she had many more huge orgasms. And then I'm finally finish. I'd move to toys for her and more going down and fingering etc, then she'd be screaming for me to fuck her again and I'd still be recovering. This told me she was obviously used to something else. I am like, WTF, I just worked you over for 90 minutes straight, I know you came at least 15 times, and you still want more? The novelty in being with a girl like this wears off quick and it becomes work and makes you feel like less of a man. But I would just think back to the others and recall those same efforts being too much and just chalk her up to being a freak of nature and not let it damage my ego. Even though I know lots of women are this way. My point is, I think I'm where I can take on a girl like this a few times a week maybe, but not every night. She needs a fucking machine to stay fully happy. And she's had them before. But those days are gone for me.

This is one small aspect of being in the bowl that can impact you psychologically. Pride aside, we all slow down and can only do so much stay on top of our game. But a vigorous exercise program with a very healthy diet can help a lot.

" WTF, I just worked you over for 90 minutes straight, I know you came at least 15 times, and you still want more? The novelty in being with a girl like this wears off quick and it becomes work and makes you feel like less of a man" Deeds.

That experience does not appeal to me. It is too much work. Prostaglandin injections are the answer for long lasting erections. The problem is- -for me it lasts 3 hours- -rock hard no matter what I am doing. So if I have a 60 to 90 minute session with my SB, which is enough for my tastes, then I have this increasingly painful erection for 2 more hours. But it NEVER fails and I am always up and ready to go. It also nicely delays orgasm so I can pound the shit out of my Baby for as long as my lungs and her desire hold out. I do get winded so have to take a breather before getting back to it. Think about it guys, If you jumped rope for 60 seconds straight you will be exhausted. Manic fucking is no less energetic. So my workouts include an exercise on an exercise ball in the ventral supine position pumping for multiple sets of 20 as hard as I can go. The gym rats look at me a little funny but I think the guys know what's up LOL.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2402714]Think about it guys, If you jumped rope for 60 seconds straight you will be exhausted. Manic fucking is no less energetic. So my workouts include an exercise on an exercise ball in the ventral supine position pumping for multiple sets of 20 as hard as I can go. The gym rats look at me a little funny but I think the guys know what's up LOL.[/QUOTE]Just curious about the ventral supine position pumping with exercise ball. Is the ball under your feet so you're in a pushup position?

[QUOTE=Dolato;2402750]Just curious about the ventral supine position pumping with exercise ball. Is the ball under your feet so you're in a pushup position?[/QUOTE]Think fucking positions. I embrace the ball for balance with knees on the mat and go at it. You get a good core workout too and you develop your fast twitch muscles. Obviously other positions would round out your muscle development. Try to work up to a duration that you are exposed to IRL. Time your fucking by the clock. Most of us would be surprised at how short a period of time we go at it intensely. You have to be in darn good shape to pound a girl for 20 straight minutes, not to mention longer.

There are benefits to using a floor model fake vagina masturbation device . If you are erect looking at porn or whatever(prob not at the local gym ) you can work on your strength and endurance while orgasming as well .

[QUOTE=DirtyDeeds38;2402535]Ok, ole buddies, some of the stuff being written here, is questionable at least. I mean we all long for the days of the past when we could literally shoot our load 5-7 times in a night, but I doubt any of us over 40 still have that capacity.[/QUOTE]Think quality over quantity. A nympho I used to date (that never masturbated less then 2 hours a day) once reported back to me that she just had the best 5 minutes of sex in her life with some guy. And she meant it. She was grinning from ear to ear.

A MILF I dated for a while in my prime (who also masturbated a minimum of two hours a day) told me she lost 2 husbands due to her sex drive. She was fine with the sex and did not want to get divorced. But they weren't and got tired of hearing all that buzzing after they were done. Like you said these girls know their bodies and they also know (or should know) what's realistic. And in a "relationship" their feelings usually outweigh their physical needs. Meaning they are satisfied emotionally. So unless YOU feel like less of a man because they masturbate every chance they get, then its not really a problem.

My entire life I have always been a cum once and I am done kind of guy. So I learned early on how to delay my orgasm. Now I don't need to do that, as nature took over a long time ago and allows me to go as long as I want. If I am just looking for a release then 45 minutes could be fine. If I am in love or just super hot for a girl I may go 60 to 120 minutes. Anything more than that and boredom sets in. And I tell every girl upfront its a one shot deal. It's one reason I never do overnites. I don't think I have ever lost a girl due to not keeping up. Its more of a guy problem, similar to penis size. And as far as sugar babes. Hey, it's your dime. Spend it the way you like. Try focusing on submissive girls that do what they are told and are grateful to do it. Quality over quantity.

Just one more thing to add. I think a lot of guys on here go for spells of either no sex or unsatisfying sex. The result is when they get a nympho they go overboard. Its a one time thing but very believable. We have all been in situations where we fucked our brains out here and there. But its not happening everyday. How many times have we all fucked a girl under the table once or twice and then lost interest? Newness and dry spells can produce some amazing results. I know sometimes if I am going to go out for the first time with a hot new babe, I may try to save up a bit for her or pop an extra see tab for assurance.

I have had a couple PM's telling me I was a liar. Why lie here? It's not going to get me any extra pussy.

I was surprised (and simultaneously glad) at the level of discussion my comments about performance, cardio, and exercise got. I also got some PM interest in asking me more about specific exercises, so I thought I'd share a few things here.

First let me say I believe heart health is key to sexual performance. Not just to increase endurance and combat fatigue, but simply for maximum circulatory efficiency, which probably affects the ability / propensity to get hard and stay hard more than anything else. Everyone is different, but I know that two things seem to really impact how often (and for how long) my cock gets hard: regular cardiovascular exercise and alcohol. That's right, some say alcohol is a boner-killer, but I never get "drunk" per se. Before sex I like to drink just enough to get the blood-thinning effects. After both exercise and drinking, I can actually see the effects of increased blood flow as my veins respond to it. Obviously either one done to excess is not good for you and can impact you negatively -- too much alcohol can damage your arteries, and likewise too much exercise has been shown to increase chance of heart disease. Everything in moderation. I actually scaled back to vigorous exercise 5-6 times a week to trying to do it no more than every 2 days, sometimes every 3 days for this very reason.

For me, the key to cardio is simply to do anything that elevates your heart rate for an extended period of time (running, cycling, etc.). Some people find running boring, I listen to music when I do it and kind of get "in the zone", I find it extremely addictive. For me the important thing is to keep the heart rate up for 30-40 minutes -- the total time the heart rate is elevated, I feel, is more important than the distance you cover and the speed you run. Just for reference I would run that at varying speeds between about 6 - 8 mph, which I guess is about average jog pace? I'm not sure. The idea here is not to overdo it -- you don't need to train for a marathon, in fact they say most marathon runners have already damaged their heart. Don't do that. Also, if you are new to cardio work please research separately what your starter goals should be and take your own personal health history into consideration. The runner's heart rate monitors are good tools to have in the toolbox (the kind you wear around your chest under your shirt), and can help you to not over-do it. They can broadcast your heart rate to an iPhone / iPod or if you're on a treadmill at the gym (much easier on the knees and joints), the chest band will send your heart rate info to the treadmill display. If you're really new to this I think I would recommend getting one of these. Also you need a GOOD pair of running shoes. Good running shoes are almost always in the $100-170 range, and even when the bottom tread is good you need to switch them out about once a year running 3 x a week. The materials get compressed from the impact and continuing running on them can lead to injury even if the shoe still looks almost new. A good running store can help you try out models (they often have a treadmill you can try them on). I already have a brand / model I like and I order them discounted online.

Now some people have knee or other injuries that make running impossible. Try cycling. Weather can get in the way so you may need to join a gym. Its a good idea anyway (more on that later). Just understand that the overall exertion from riding a stationary bike usually doesn't work your heart as much as running, so you may need to go longer. I personally find stationary bikes boring, I don't know why. I can run on a treadmill until I keel over but 30 minutes on a stationary bike and I'm dying to get off. Real bikes outside in decent weather I can ride all day long. Just a matter of personal choice I guess.

With all this, I have to say, a lot of people will say they already get exercise doing yard work or just by walking around all day and staying active, etc. Yes some activity is better than none but just keep in mind that ITS NOT THE SAME as doing 30-40 steady minutes of cardio work. Sure you are burning calories, maybe sweating and making parts of your body sore by doing yard work, but it is a very different scenario from something like taking your heart rate to 160-170 and holding it there for half an hour. In fact I just pay someone to do yard work or handyman shit because it would remove some of my energy or enthusiasm for doing the type of exercise that pays off much better in bed.

Another benefit from running / cycling: your leg and ass muscles become god-like both in strength and endurance, which gives you some serious pussy-pounding-power in bed in addition to the heart+boner benefit. But it's not all good news, runners sometimes have knee, shin, hamstring, calf, ankle or foot problems. I can claim some level of experience with more than one of those. The biggest line of defense is stretching. I have a tendency to not stretch enough, which I've been trying to remedy over the last few years. I now stretch both before and after running and yes it does reduce aches and pains. When I was younger I discounted the importance of stretching, and I've realized how wrong I was as I got older.

I also recommend getting a thera-band (its like a large rubber band used for physical therapy). When you put it around your ankles, then lift each leg to the side with resistance, you can feel muscles in your butt and hip start to get tired, and the next day muscle soreness in spots you didn't know you had. This is a technique to strengthen hips / glut muscles (which oddly help prevent knee pain), but it also makes you fuck better in bed.

On to weights. If you wear the heart rate monitor I mentioned above while you lift weights, you might be surprised what your heart does while lifting (because you are focusing on the resistance of the weight and what you feel in the affected muscles) and it doesn't seem like something that would increase your heart rate a great deal. But yes, it also supplements the cardio workout. Just be aware that it does not replace the cardio aspect altogether. Honestly if I only have time for one, and my goal is to increase sexual performance, I would do the cardio first. Weight lifting is very important too, though, especially as you get older, because it increases your natural testosterone production. This has long been the recommended "therapy" for aging men that do not want to lose their sex drive but don't want to take potentially dangerous growth hormone, etc. It's not just about impressing people with your muscles, it's about feeling younger and hornier longer. So for that reason weight lifting should be something you do. Just be sure to learn how to do it in a way that won't cause you injuries -- I really don't want to send someone who has no experience with this into the gym all gung-ho and they end up hurting themselves. Knowing how to do it in a way that is beneficial without overdoing it takes some practice so please start out slowly, learn how to do the exercises correctly, and don't plan on learning them all at once (you don't need to). Your goal should be to be a little bit sore the next day, not extremely sore or feeling miserable. Don't forget to stretch and be sure to understand the exercise you're doing and why. I am being somewhat flippant in my description of this because I grew up during the fitness craze of the 80's, learned most of what I know about weight lifting back then, and it's somewhat second nature to me now. Someone just starting out now might do well to start with a trainer, or at least spend a lot of time researching on you tube first.

Someone, I think Deeds mentioned vigorous 2-fingering of SBs and how physically demanding it can be. One trick I could offer there: most of the exercises and stretches that are used for carpel tunnel, tennis elbow or other sports related arm issues are excellent for making you better at vigorous fingering. There are a number of them, probably best left to Youtube for examples rather than me trying to explain them. Our fingers, forearms, elbows etc. Tend to get abused on a day to day basis anyway. Stretching has helped me a lot over the years.

That's all I've got for now, on the subject of fitness.

I had a crush on this girl at one time. I don't crave porn starts but she was the real deal.

[URL]https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/e54cd231/view?search-recently-active[/URL]

I,ve seen a few on the SD sites here and there in my area.

Hollywood rocker / baby girl in search of her Daddy. Boy did she luck out. LOL.

And hopefully me to. She is so ready. Says the oldest guy she's dated is 22.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]369996[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]369995[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]369994[/ATTACH]

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2403064]I was surprised (and simultaneously glad) at the level of discussion my comments about performance, cardio, and exercise got. I also got some PM interest in asking me more about specific exercises, so I thought I'd share a few things here..[/QUOTE]After my hernia surgery a few years ago I stopped working out. I do a ton of stair climbing and eat right. , But my Dr tells me all the sex I am having is doing wonders.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2403371]After my hernia surgery a few years ago I stopped working out. I do a ton of stair climbing and eat right. , But my Dr tells me all the sex I am having is doing wonders.[/QUOTE]I've had that surgery too (it was actually due to heavy exercise). Very common surgery for athletes, I'd almost say inevitable. But the surgery itself is a walk in the park -- I was back at the gym only a few weeks later. Hopefully that wasn't your reason for giving up exercise.

Eating right is important too (I didn't even cover that in my message but probably should have). I have to say though, stair climbing is only good for you on a machine where you are always going up. Walking down stairs is bad for the body and a ticket to knee replacement surgery in the long run. Also you would need to continuously do the upstairs climb for about half an hour to get the same cardio benefit. Here and there throughout the same does not have the same effect.

Doctors would rather you go to them for ongoing revenue purposes than to solve issues the free and natural way. They want you to take the latest boner pills or hormone therapy, because quite simply they do not profit from healthy people, they profit from sick people.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2403557]I've had that surgery too (it was actually due to heavy exercise). Very common surgery for athletes, I'd almost say inevitable. But the surgery itself is a walk in the park -- I was back at the gym only a few weeks later. Hopefully that wasn't your reason for giving up exercise.

Eating right is important too (I didn't even cover that in my message but probably should have). I have to say though, stair climbing is only good for you on a machine where you are always going up. Walking down stairs is bad for the body and a ticket to knee replacement surgery in the long run. Also you would need to continuously do the upstairs climb for about half an hour to get the same cardio benefit. Here and there throughout the same does not have the same effect.

Doctors would rather you go to them for ongoing revenue purposes than to solve issues the free and natural way. They want you to take the latest boner pills or hormone therapy, because quite simply they do not profit from healthy people, they profit from sick people.[/QUOTE]Well its 80 stairs round trip just to get to my front door. Gave me some pretty tight legs. As far as pills, its either that or fall down on the job. Also got lipo on the belly. Gave me a 4 pack, the rest is still buried under some baby fat. But no ones complaining. One reason I think I can date all these spinners. I have a male spinner mentality. In the midwest where I am from, everyone always said I looked too thin or sick. In hollywood they say I look like a rockstar. And there is a female spinner mentality. I always tap into it as fast as possible when I meet one. Its like a bonding experience.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2403846]Well its 80 stairs round trip just to get to my front door. Gave me some pretty tight legs. As far as pills, its either that or fall down on the job. Also got lipo on the belly. Gave me a 4 pack, the rest is still buried under some baby fat. But no ones complaining. One reason I think I can date all these spinners. I have a male spinner mentality. In the midwest where I am from, everyone always said I looked too thin or sick. In hollywood they say I look like a rockstar. And there is a female spinner mentality. I always tap into it as fast as possible when I meet one. Its like a bonding experience.[/QUOTE]I like to be as thin as I can get. Getting too skinny or too fat has never really been a problem for me, I have the kind of build that can tolerate a 25 lb weight difference before anyone even notices I've gained or lost. The realities of work (sitting a lot) make a 6-pack a goal that is possibly achievable, but I guess I don't want it bad enough to put in the effort. But, I have my "comfort zone" weight and then my "optimal" weight for picking up women. Getting rid of the last 5-8 lbs of "comfort zone" weight seems to bolster female reactions in my favor. Experiments with my weight have all been done in civy dating world, I'd imagine that success with SBs would be less affected if I let myself go a bit since financial support is part of their motivation. But when it comes to sex, to me fat just gets in the way (whether its on her or on me), so in general I want to minimize it. I like my women thin and fit, and the fitter I am the more sexual energy I think I have.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2403892]I like to be as thin as I can get. Getting too skinny or too fat has never really been a problem for me, I have the kind of build that can tolerate a 25 lb weight difference before anyone even notices I've gained or lost. The realities of work (sitting a lot) make a 6-pack a goal that is possibly achievable, but I guess I don't want it bad enough to put in the effort. But, I have my "comfort zone" weight and then my "optimal" weight for picking up women. Getting rid of the last 5-8 lbs of "comfort zone" weight seems to bolster female reactions in my favor. Experiments with my weight have all been done in civy dating world, I'd imagine that success with SBs would be less affected if I let myself go a bit since financial support is part of their motivation. But when it comes to sex, to me fat just gets in the way (whether its on her or on me), so in general I want to minimize it. I like my women thin and fit, and the fitter I am the more sexual energy I think I have.[/QUOTE]No doubt. And the positions you can get in if you are fit, with a spinner, make it so much better all around. But girls are far less concerned with our bodies than we are with theirs.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2403937]No doubt. And the positions you can get in if you are fit, with a spinner, make it so much better all around. But girls are far less concerned with our bodies than we are with theirs.[/QUOTE]As a long time yo yo guy with weight, I will affirm HG on women not being as concerned. I have gotten calls from chicks wanting to get laid when I was heavy, I have gotten them when I am trim, no change in frequency that I could tell.

[QUOTE=Beachesnole02;2404885]As a long time yo yo guy with weight, I will affirm HG on women not being as concerned. I have gotten calls from chicks wanting to get laid when I was heavy, I have gotten them when I am trim, no change in frequency that I could tell.[/QUOTE]They don't care $$ talks.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2388832]Just for the record, no legitimate SB would ever invite you to her place for the first meeting. If she does that, she is a hardened pro.[/QUOTE]I have to respectfully disagree with this particular point. My best SB ever (and longest SB relationship) invited me to her place for our first meet. To say it was amazing would be an understatement. I brought wine and cheese and after the first glass calmed our nervousness, we went at it like rabbits for hours. I popped at least 4 times. She was a foreign grad student (I didn't know that at the time) who I think genuinely needed the cash, but also wanted the sex. She was in her 30's, not interested in marriage or children and her sex drive was unbelievable. I may have mentioned her in the past. I still miss her. I will admit that her residence was in a secure building in a nice part of town, and it would definitely have been sketchier if she was in a house in a no-so-great area. But I don't think any SB who invites you to her place for a first meet is necessarily a scammer or thief.

She was also clearly not a hardened pro. It was pretty obvious I was the only Daddy she had, and we progressed to overnights and dinner dates and even the occasional long Saturday night into Sunday brunch combo. She was available anytime I wanted to see her if she was not working. All for the same low amount I left her (without ever discussing it) when I left after our first marathon session. In fact, she was grateful for every ounce of help. She was going home before Christmas, and I popped in to drop of a very inexpensive gift. I was really just planning on dropping off the gift and being on my way. But sShe was so thrilled, she literally couldn't stop thanking me and before I could say boo, she had dropped to her knees and had me out and in her mouth. I told her I didn't have any allowance, and she didn't care. It really about showing appreciation for the gift. A hardened pro would not have acted in any of the ways she did.

Norm!

[QUOTE=NormGerd;2405094]I have to respectfully disagree with this particular point. My best SB ever (and longest SB relationship) invited me to her place for our first meet. To say it was amazing would be an understatement. I brought wine and cheese and after the first glass calmed our nervousness, we went at it like rabbits for hours. I popped at least 4 times. She was a foreign grad student (I didn't know that at the time) who I think genuinely needed the cash, but also wanted the sex. She was in her 30's, not interested in marriage or children and her sex drive was unbelievable. I may have mentioned her in the past. I still miss her. I will admit that her residence was in a secure building in a nice part of town, and it would definitely have been sketchier if she was in a house in a no-so-great area. But I don't think any SB who invites you to her place for a first meet is necessarily a scammer or thief.

She was also clearly not a hardened pro. It was pretty obvious I was the only Daddy she had, and we progressed to overnights and dinner dates and even the occasional long Saturday night into Sunday brunch combo. She was available anytime I wanted to see her if she was not working. All for the same low amount I left her (without ever discussing it) when I left after our first marathon session. In fact, she was grateful for every ounce of help. She was going home before Christmas, and I popped in to drop of a very inexpensive gift. I was really just planning on dropping off the gift and being on my way. But sShe was so thrilled, she literally couldn't stop thanking me and before I could say boo, she had dropped to her knees and had me out and in her mouth. I told her I didn't have any allowance, and she didn't care. It really about showing appreciation for the gift. A hardened pro would not have acted in any of the ways she did.

Norm![/QUOTE]After literally hundreds of girls. Its hard to generalize. Girls are all over the map. Normally I don't go inside a lot of girls homes as their parents probably wouldn't appreciate that, but anything is possible. But have picked up plenty from their parents front door (practically the equivalent) and gone straight to the FC, whether that was the car or my home. I am continually surprised and entertained by some of the things that happen in the bowl.

It's what we all look for. NormGerd, I've been there. One of my first pots that became an SB was a Polish born foreign girl. We fucked like rabbits until her requests got larger. (eg she wanted clothes on top of her allowance which got increasingly more difficult to manage).

Long story short, they are out there- you just have to find them before they become greedy.

[QUOTE=NormGerd;2405094]I have to respectfully disagree with this particular point. My best SB ever (and longest SB relationship) invited me to her place for our first meet. To say it was amazing would be an understatement. I brought wine and cheese and after the first glass calmed our nervousness, we went at it like rabbits for hours. I popped at least 4 times. She was a foreign grad student (I didn't know that at the time) who I think genuinely needed the cash, but also wanted the sex. She was in her 30's, not interested in marriage or children and her sex drive was unbelievable. I may have mentioned her in the past. I still miss her. I will admit that her residence was in a secure building in a nice part of town, and it would definitely have been sketchier if she was in a house in a no-so-great area. But I don't think any SB who invites you to her place for a first meet is necessarily a scammer or thief.

She was also clearly not a hardened pro. It was pretty obvious I was the only Daddy she had, and we progressed to overnights and dinner dates and even the occasional long Saturday night into Sunday brunch combo. She was available anytime I wanted to see her if she was not working. All for the same low amount I left her (without ever discussing it) when I left after our first marathon session. In fact, she was grateful for every ounce of help. She was going home before Christmas, and I popped in to drop of a very inexpensive gift. I was really just planning on dropping off the gift and being on my way. But sShe was so thrilled, she literally couldn't stop thanking me and before I could say boo, she had dropped to her knees and had me out and in her mouth. I told her I didn't have any allowance, and she didn't care. It really about showing appreciation for the gift. A hardened pro would not have acted in any of the ways she did.

Norm![/QUOTE]

Ran into my 1st babies mother one morning when picking her up for breakfast! Dumbass me parks too close, mom opens the door to see what her little angle was doing, looks me straight in the eyes not 20' away. Kept calm, off we went. She had a bit to explain but wasnt an issue for me.

About a minute away from meeting an aunt of another baby. That would have been a lot more akward given the situation, A lot more.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2405125]After literally hundreds of girls. Its hard to generalize. Girls are all over the map. Normally I don't go inside a lot of girls homes as their parents probably wouldn't appreciate that, but anything is possible. But have picked up plenty from their parents front door (practically the equivalent) and gone straight to the FC, whether that was the car or my home. I am continually surprised and entertained by some of the things that happen in the bowl.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=NormGerd;2405094]I have to respectfully disagree with this particular point. My best SB ever (and longest SB relationship) invited me to her place for our first meet. To say it was amazing would be an understatement. I brought wine and cheese and after the first glass calmed our nervousness, we went at it like rabbits for hours. I popped at least 4 times. She was a foreign grad student (I didn't know that at the time) who I think genuinely needed the cash, but also wanted the sex. She was in her 30's, not interested in marriage or children and her sex drive was unbelievable. I may have mentioned her in the past. I still miss her. I will admit that her residence was in a secure building in a nice part of town, and it would definitely have been sketchier if she was in a house in a no-so-great area. But I don't think any SB who invites you to her place for a first meet is necessarily a scammer or thief.

She was also clearly not a hardened pro. It was pretty obvious I was the only Daddy she had, and we progressed to overnights and dinner dates and even the occasional long Saturday night into Sunday brunch combo. She was available anytime I wanted to see her if she was not working. All for the same low amount I left her (without ever discussing it) when I left after our first marathon session. In fact, she was grateful for every ounce of help. She was going home before Christmas, and I popped in to drop of a very inexpensive gift. I was really just planning on dropping off the gift and being on my way. But sShe was so thrilled, she literally couldn't stop thanking me and before I could say boo, she had dropped to her knees and had me out and in her mouth. I told her I didn't have any allowance, and she didn't care. It really about showing appreciation for the gift. A hardened pro would not have acted in any of the ways she did.
[/QUOTE]Without paging back to recall the full context in which I said that, if I'm not mistaken I think the poster was talking about someone he met who quickly invited him over, as-in "come on over sweetie" or that sort of thing, so I was mostly trying to warn him that this sort of thing can get you robbed, hurt, arrested or killed.

To your point however, I was really summarizing that particular situation. Are there situations that "fall outside the norm?" (no pun intended, but yes surely there are).

Encounters with real SBs have a lot in common with civy dating (both in their mind and in ours). So, whenever something happens in the bowl, either to us or through reading someone else's experience, it is often useful to put it into the context of plain-old-dating to see if it makes sense. And, sure, I have met women who were not after money who met me at their place first. A couple of years ago I met a stripper who didn't have a car, and for our first date she asked me to pick her up at her place (where she was still living with who she said was her ex-bf and his male roommate), so I drove right up front and picked her up as her roommate gawked, standing right there on the porch as she got in my car. She was annoyed with his desire to watch us take off, and was concerned he would run his mouth. She insisted her relationship was over anyway, but did not want to live with gossip. She was not a pro and to the best of my knowledge had never hooked up with a strip club patron prior to that night (she was very young and new to dancing). Even with casual bar hookups, I've had some take me straight back to their place for a round of fucking, some of which had advanced degrees with great jobs and certainly were not hardened pros.

It sounds like in your particular case you met an SB who was viewing the M&G as more of a date (which is how I like them to view it) than the kind of "come on over sweetie" danger sign I was alluding to. I'm also guessing that she did this because of conversations you had with her up to that point that gave her a comfort level (either that, or being foreign she was so new to the country that she brought habits and mannerisms with her to this country that betray my earlier definition). I don't know which country she was from, but foreign girls often have very different ideas about online socialization and even sex. She may have also had the "bobbing for greencard" habit that I've noticed (and also adored) in so many foreign college students, where they are feeling a bit rushed to hook up with some financial stability before their school visa runs out. There is really no way for you or I to know her background before she came to this country, and because in some countries prostitution is a way of life, we never really know her background. I've been there, done that, and enjoyed the benefits of foreign students studying here without over-analyzing the matter, so I don't intend to start now, I just wanted to say that the particular case you described wasn't really the type of thing I had in mind when I said what I did.

In general, I would be very suspicious of any girl found on an SD site who is okay with doing the M&G inside her place of residence. There is a chance you may strike gold, but more than likely it is an indication that she is not concerned about her potential new SD being a needy stalker type that just won't go away. This could be because her place of residence is fleeting (short term rental thus she doesn't care), which is more likely in a pro than anyone else, it could be because she feels completely safe (maybe an on-campus dorm while her roommate is away? I've been in that situation), or it could be that she just hasn't yet thought of the stalker possibility.

So, while it's true that it's unfair to say she is always a hardened pro if she invites you over for the M&G, I'd say this is not a typical scenario with a responsible young lady, and in most cases we should be suspicious of any girl who doesn't want to meet in a public place first.

I put my jersey back on. I'm officially back in The Sugar Bowl. This time taking my time before doing M&G. Also, picking the top of the crop. I put my photo up on my profile and I'm getting more traffic than I could ever imagine. Even spinners that I tried to link up with before are coming around now.

I met up with this one spinner that sort of was playing hard to get before. We meet up and go shopping. She spends her own money, she even had a wad of cash. She booked a hotel for us to crash after a night of partying. We get to the hotel and she's on her cycle. Nonetheless, she gives me oral over and over and over again all night. I may have came 4 times and then passed out. I've since been trying to set up the FC and she mentioned something about she'd need $1 K and how she gave me a sample.

I never did a lot of research on POTS, but she let her guard down. I gathered she used a fake name and some sort of cell phone number disguising app. I pull up her info and her criminal record is pretty surprising for a good looking 21 year old. She's got a couple of DUI's and a battery charge. Great mugshot pics though. I think I'll pass on the work required for the FC, but she's a hottie. She's probably batshit crazy and would key my car, but I'd imagine she's an awesome lay.

I got flaked on by the white rocker girl. No problem. Started chatting up a few girls on SA on my down time. Three 19 year olds and a super hot 27 year old in my neighborhood. One of those 19 year olds is a virgin. So she says. never had one.

Got my date with my new island girl tomorrow nite. My ATF got out of the hospital but wont be well for a few more days. So I am gonna do all 4 or 5 M&G's as fast as I can.

After messaging all those girls last night due to getting flaked on, I was horneee. So I went to my ATF at midnite for a 2 hour car date in her driveway. It was smoking hot. Suddenly she asks me "are you looking" And I am like you mean for a new girl? She says yes. So I tell her I am and that I interviewed about 5 to 10 in the FC since I met her. But that none of them worked out or made it to the third date. She said just hearing about it was getting her hot. And she wasn't lying as I had my finger inside her while we were talking and I suddenly felt it get a lot wetter. She then gave me one of the best BJ's she has done so far in 40 dates. I was so high (on the sex) I forgot to pay her. But we are more on a monthly arrangement anyway.

There are some awesome girls out there. So far I have gotten 20+ girls (all between 18-21 except 2) on SA in the first 6 weeks to agree to my $ a date. Meaning I have their phone number which I am only asking for after they agree, just so I don't forget where they are in the qualifying process. The one tonite (my new island girl) already knows the score in the bigger picture. I told her about my regulars and lifestyle because I think she might have a shot at a future. She is getting waxed just a few hours before our date tonite.

Here is a pretty one. An 18 year old mixed girl. She is down for the adventure.

I'd say she is an 8+ in any guys book. Look at that smile.

Just got back from a very strange date. The super hot island girl was super weird even though she looked good, had on a tight mini and had a fresh wax. But the chemistry was not happening. After an hour of awkwardness in the FC I just took her home. She didn't ask for any money. And apologized for her unsugarlike behavior. I just think she really wants a BF and not an SD. And I just wanted a booty call. Thank god for my ATF. After I dropped off said island girl I swung by her place for a quick BJ and came home. I have many many M&G's to do and I am determined to find a new SB. So there you have it.

Hey guys,

Haven't been active in this forum and am just getting started in the bowl. Been following some of HG's advice (thanks HG) and am about ready for the first meet and greet. Any advice on how direct to be with the communication setting up the date? Need a little "sales" help. LOL.

Seniors, feel free to give me a good dose of we-told-you-so. Newbies, learn vicariously from my pain. The danger of wanting the unicorn, the one with whom who have a connection, but of course on non-traditional terms. Be careful, you might get it. The human connection takes a life of it own, often in unexpected ways.

So my SB takes a winter-break road-trip with some school chums this week. Throw in some alcohol, two guys who have a crush on her, one of which she's gotten along with real well in the past year. Well, at a club one night the alcohol flowed, some mutual admissions of affection were made between her and the latter guy, culminating in a BJ in the mens bathroom. Apparently the rest of the trip was of the hold-hand / cuddle behavior, which was overt to the rest of the group. Puppy love, near as I can figure from what I'm hearing.

So I get these panicked texts about how she doesn't know what do to, doesn't want to leave me but things were suddenly swell with her college buddy. She was set to visit me the next day so I calmed her down until we could really talk.

I went into the discussion expecting that the inevitable had happened-she finally connected with a peer and was ready for more normal civvy dating. In fact, that's how I always imagined the most positive outcome. From a position of pure self-interest, there's much less risk of collateral damage if she's choosing to move on to someone else than me pushing her away. So I was ready to encourage and support that direction.

But alas, she is in too deep with me, and as this episode is making clear, I am in too deep with her. She can't give me up for something that may or may not be the right thing. As I heard more about what happened and the dynamics with this guy, my take was that it would work for awhile, but then she'd be right on my doorstep again. She mostly talked herself out of it, but I didn't argue either. Part of me wonders whether I lost a chance at a clean break, but mostly I think it would have been temporary and in the long run cause more complications.

The day ended up with lots to discuss, most of it leaning my direction, and lots of cuddle time. Her next step was to break the definitive news to her road-trip fling.

I knew that over the next few days she'd be navigating the tricky waters of unwinding her mixed messages to the group and to her crush in particular, which she understandably was not looking forward to. Those few days go by with lots of radio silence, though the communications that did happen seemed pretty back-to-normal. Then she announced that she was hanging with the group and feeling really shitty, even though it sounded like things were going to blow over.

So that's that, right? I wish.

After our talk where she made it pretty clear that she was not leaving and was just going to have to suck it up with her peers, I still couldn't shake the anxiety. We all know how conflicted people (especially women) will feel one thing with one person then something totally different when with another. So I knew better than to believe that this was the last of it. I'm sure the anxiety was unfounded, but Sugar Bowl Time Machine had unexpectedly transported me back to the old "is she going to pick me?" purgatory / hell. How pathetic is that?

This, brothers, is the danger when it gets too deep. I care way too much about this. It's not the type of thing where I'm itching to just run off with her, since I know better than to think that would work out. But she fills many needs, not just physical, and when that eventually comes to an end it will be painful. And episodes like this eat up way too much mental and emotional energy that are better spent elsewhere. Fortunately they are rare.

[QUOTE=Walruscl;2408357]Seniors, feel free to give me a good dose of we-told-you-so. Newbies, learn vicariously from my pain. The danger of wanting the unicorn, the one with whom who have a connection, but of course on non-traditional terms. Be careful, you might get it. The human connection takes a life of it own, often in unexpected ways.

So my SB takes a winter-break road-trip with some school chums this week. Throw in some alcohol, two guys who have a crush on her, one of which she's gotten along with real well in the past year. Well, at a club one night the alcohol flowed, some mutual admissions of affection were made between her and the latter guy, culminating in a BJ in the mens bathroom. Apparently the rest of the trip was of the hold-hand / cuddle behavior, which was overt to the rest of the group. Puppy love, near as I can figure from what I'm hearing.

So I get these panicked texts about how she doesn't know what do to, doesn't want to leave me but things were suddenly swell with her college buddy. She was set to visit me the next day so I calmed her down until we could really talk.

I went into the discussion expecting that the inevitable had happened-she finally connected with a peer and was ready for more normal civvy dating. In fact, that's how I always imagined the most positive outcome. From a position of pure self-interest, there's much less risk of collateral damage if she's choosing to move on to someone else than me pushing her away. So I was ready to encourage and support that direction.

But alas, she is in too deep with me, and as this episode is making clear, I am in too deep with her. She can't give me up for something that may or may not be the right thing. As I heard more about what happened and the dynamics with this guy, my take was that it would work for awhile, but then she'd be right on my doorstep again. She mostly talked herself out of it, but I didn't argue either. Part of me wonders whether I lost a chance at a clean break, but mostly I think it would have been temporary and in the long run cause more complications.

The day ended up with lots to discuss, most of it leaning my direction, and lots of cuddle time. Her next step was to break the definitive news to her road-trip fling.

I knew that over the next few days she'd be navigating the tricky waters of unwinding her mixed messages to the group and to her crush in particular, which she understandably was not looking forward to. Those few days go by with lots of radio silence, though the communications that did happen seemed pretty back-to-normal. Then she announced that she was hanging with the group and feeling really shitty, even though it sounded like things were going to blow over.

So that's that, right? I wish.

After our talk where she made it pretty clear that she was not leaving and was just going to have to suck it up with her peers, I still couldn't shake the anxiety. We all know how conflicted people (especially women) will feel one thing with one person then something totally different when with another. So I knew better than to believe that this was the last of it. I'm sure the anxiety was unfounded, but Sugar Bowl Time Machine had unexpectedly transported me back to the old "is she going to pick me?" purgatory / hell. How pathetic is that?

This, brothers, is the danger when it gets too deep. I care way too much about this. It's not the type of thing where I'm itching to just run off with her, since I know better than to think that would work out. But she fills many needs, not just physical, and when that eventually comes to an end it will be painful. And episodes like this eat up way too much mental and emotional energy that are better spent elsewhere. Fortunately they are rare.[/QUOTE]You might want to consider meeting new POT SBs and re-establish your perspective. Doesn't mean you have to drop your current ATF but anytime a SD places all their physical, emotional, and financial chips on one SB there is a greater chance for eventually being in too deep. Sincere best of luck and I hope you get an outcome that is favourable to you.

[QUOTE=Rouleur;2408403]You might want to consider meeting new POT SBs and re-establish your perspective. Doesn't mean you have to drop your current ATF but anytime a SD places all their physical, emotional, and financial chips on one SB there is a greater chance for eventually being in too deep. Sincere best of luck and I hope you get an outcome that is favourable to you.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I've considered it, but only fleetingly. I barely have enough time for this one. Even if I could magically make another perfect-match SB appear on the scene I'd have trouble juggling them. One SB, job, household, kids, etc is more than I can handle already. The thought of the time and energy required for the M&G process is just too much.

My current plan is to let this one play out, make the most of it, and deal with the emotional consequences best I can when it ends. This ride has been sufficiently intense that it's unclear that would even enter the bowl again. This experience is a pretty tough standard to meet in terms of how good things can be, but also a cautionary tale on the emotional investment that can come along with it. This episode was a wake-up call that I need to actively moderate my affections towards my unicorn.

[QUOTE=Walruscl;2408490]Yeah, I've considered it, but only fleetingly. I barely have enough time for this one. Even if I could magically make another perfect-match SB appear on the scene I'd have trouble juggling them. One SB, job, household, kids, etc is more than I can handle already. The thought of the time and energy required for the M&G process is just too much.

My current plan is to let this one play out, make the most of it, and deal with the emotional consequences best I can when it ends. This ride has been sufficiently intense that it's unclear that would even enter the bowl again. This experience is a pretty tough standard to meet in terms of how good things can be, but also a cautionary tale on the emotional investment that can come along with it. This episode was a wake-up call that I need to actively moderate my affections towards my unicorn.[/QUOTE]I have trouble keeping track of each of the brothers' individual situations, so I don't remember if you have an SO (but I assume so since you mentioned household and kids). Assuming you do have an SO, I would just say you've gotten yourself in way too deep emotionally. There are far worse potential consequences to doing this than you've experienced thus far. What you're experiencing is just a normal type of jealousy that occurs whenever someone's been creeping around your back stairs. You've got time and money invested with her and you don't want to share her, you also want confirmation that she wants you bad enough to leave the other dude. The feeling itself is perfectly normal, but it behooves you to get control of it.

I'm sure someone, somewhere, occasionally emerges from an SB arrangement with a legitimate and fulfilling LTR or marriage (assuming that's what they want), but saying they are the minority is an understatement. I'm going to say not even 1% have a chance at their SB flipping into a faithful / loyal companion for life. The very fact that the girl ever positioned herself as an SB indicates an innate feeling of entitlement to things she did not legitimately earn herself -- rather she expects to receive support in exchange for her beauty. Long term, her beauty will fade but her sense of entitlement will only grow. Sugarbabying reinforces that sense of entitlement and sets them up for a lifetime of GPS for as long as they remain hot looking, and a lifetime of bitter, moody horrors beyond that point.

So, all of us should go into this hobby with NSA as a top priority, and that means sometimes pulling ourselves out of the danger zone, possibly even with the moral support and advice of brothers here. Once emotional strings form, it's time to do something to cut them. It's not always easy to be disciplined enough to do it. I had such an immediate connection with my last SB that it took me weeks to stop texting her and wishing I could see her again from the time I forced myself to stop. But time does heal these situations, and faster than you think.

In your case it sounds like she has given you a perfect window of opportunity to do what you need to do. First of all, it was nice of her to be honest with you about what happened, but the fact that it happened is grounds for letting her go. And, since she is somewhat distracted / conflicted right now, you can do so without guilt of worrying about hurting her, you can devote all your energy to dealing with your own addiction to her.

I would agree with others that the best immediate medicine is to go shopping for a new one, one without all the strings. There's always another one out there that's hotter than the one before. Just try to get in the habit of moving to the next one before getting in too deep.