General Reports

[QUOTE=MarkKern;7045760]This is how the lawmakers tighten the screw! Slowly and painfully until everyone is fucked! First they hit the girls arresting them left and right! That didn't work, so they focused on Johns! That kinda worked but not quite because the punishment was not harsh enough! Then they focused on human trafficking! Well! That didn't go anywhere because majority of them were the crooks themselves!! Now they are focused on anyone that aids, abets or willfully gets sexual favors in return for anything! That includes Motel owners who rent rooms, landlords who rent property and private people who provide transportation. You cannot exchange money or any other forms of reward for sexual favors! So! Is buying a drink or dinner to hook up with a girl considered breaking the law? The way the legislation is written is pretty scary! How did it even pass into a law is a deeper mystery! Will have to wait and see how it is going to be implemented!! Better give Tommy a holiday in December folks!

Mk.[/QUOTE]Any politician in a conservative controlled state against 'Human Trafficking' legislation won't be in office for very long. It will be interesting to see how many state legislators get busted. My detective friend has said the stings are about to get really really creative, so watch out after 12/1. See only providers you know and 'trust' - and don't respond to an ad with a new phone # for that provider. He already told me that's going to be a tactic. They're even adding 'counselors' to the Vice teams to convince the girls to flip on the johns during busts. The counselors will be telling them they are victims, and can't be charged for prostitution any longer and convincing them that if they help convict us they can receive victim compensation funds and then sue us civilly (for benefitting from their plight) after we're convicted. The part I can't get over is that these girls make their living doing this every single day, while some of us might partake once per year. Imagine if they allowed the drug dealer who makes his living that way to have immunity so they could bust a recreational buyer?

[QUOTE=MmceStep;7046321]Any politician in a conservative controlled state against 'Human Trafficking' legislation won't be in office for very long. It will be interesting to see how many state legislators get busted. My detective friend has said the stings are about to get really really creative, so watch out after 12/1. See only providers you know and 'trust' - and don't respond to an ad with a new phone # for that provider. He already told me that's going to be a tactic. They're even adding 'counselors' to the Vice teams to convince the girls to flip on the johns during busts. The counselors will be telling them they are victims, and can't be charged for prostitution any longer and convincing them that if they help convict us they can receive victim compensation funds and then sue us civilly (for benefitting from their plight) after we're convicted. The part I can't get over is that these girls make their living doing this every single day, while some of us might partake once per year. Imagine if they allowed the drug dealer who makes his living that way to have immunity so they could bust a recreational buyer?[/QUOTE]Yes Sir, there will be a lot more pressure on the girls to set us up. Even if they get picked up for probation violations, if the PO knows she's an escort they will be trying to flip her to bust us. That's going to really change the game a lot.

I also agree that the girls and agencies that have the heavy screening processes are going to have to stop asking for personal info. Either that, or find a new line of work.

[QUOTE=MmceStep;7046321]Any politician in a conservative controlled state against 'Human Trafficking' legislation won't be in office for very long. It will be interesting to see how many state legislators get busted. My detective friend has said the stings are about to get really really creative, so watch out after 12/1. See only providers you know and 'trust' - and don't respond to an ad with a new phone # for that provider. He already told me that's going to be a tactic. They're even adding 'counselors' to the Vice teams to convince the girls to flip on the johns during busts. The counselors will be telling them they are victims, and can't be charged for prostitution any longer and convincing them that if they help convict us they can receive victim compensation funds and then sue us civilly (for benefitting from their plight) after we're convicted. The part I can't get over is that these girls make their living doing this every single day, while some of us might partake once per year. Imagine if they allowed the drug dealer who makes his living that way to have immunity so they could bust a recreational buyer?[/QUOTE]This is straight up from the Kamala Harris playbook. Read this article. It isn't about being in a conservative state as much as it's really about what the individual politician is going to push. These tactics were born out of the ideas from Harris in San Francisco.

[URL]https://reason.com/2024/09/25/a-history-of-harris-positions-on-sex-work/[/URL]

[QUOTE=CoopDawg;7046347]Yes Sir, there will be a lot more pressure on the girls to set us up. Even if they get picked up for probation violations, if the PO knows she's an escort they will be trying to flip her to bust us. That's going to really change the game a lot.

I also agree that the girls and agencies that have the heavy screening processes are going to have to stop asking for personal info. Either that, or find a new line of work.[/QUOTE]Not sure why my other post hasn't been posted yet (about the article of Kamala Harris and her crackdown on sex work), but this is what Harris was trying to get pushed out in San Francisco:

1. Convince the SWer that she's having to do this job because of the clients. They are the real criminals.

2. Provide mental health services for providers while putting the clients in jail.

3. Providing monetary help to the providers if they turn in their client list.

4. There was already a situation in SF where corrupt police were busted for notifying providers of potential stings and raids, because these police officers were partaking themselves. They were also busted for partaking with underage girls.

The same concept that Harris applied to San Francisco when she was the district attorney there is the same concept being applied here come December 1st. Providers are victims, clients are criminals. Clients provide the funding for purchase of their bodies (even though it was a consensual agreement between two adults), which they deem to be human trafficking, providers use it to pay for drugs, and to keep the high, they have to prostitute more. And then by a certain time, the providers are selling their bodies while being under the influence. This is how the politicians connect the dots and wind up prosecuting the clients.

Here's my opinion: You shouldn't police morality. Unless someone's freedom has been infringed upon, people should have the right to do whatever they want. Whether if it is deemed immoral or not. Free will. What should be policed is murder, theft, rape of an individual who did not consent, property damage, protect the underage. In no particular order mind you. Some people find smoking and drinking immoral. Some people find girls wearing short shorts and showing a lot of cleavage is immoral. Yet it's legal. The politicians seem to be OK with allowing guys into girls locker rooms and bathrooms, but if a guy wants to pay a willing girl for sex, that's a no-no. I just don't get it.

I do totally get stopping actual human trafficking, but I think anything sex work related, the politicians are trying to put that blanket definition on it, and that is not correct.

[QUOTE=GMan7547;7046391]This is straight up from the Kamala Harris playbook. Read this article. It isn't about being in a conservative state as much as it's really about what the individual politician is going to push. These tactics were born out of the ideas from Harris in San Francisco.

[URL]https://reason.com/2024/09/25/a-history-of-harris-positions-on-sex-work/[/URL][/QUOTE]All 4 authors of the Bill were Republicans: Crutchfield, Reeder, Arp and Sasser. Of course this had to be the case, with the current mix of legislators. The Republicans control both chambers and the Democrats aren't able to introduce legislation. The NC GOP is taking the first majority in 100 years in both chambers to legislate morality (and they've publicly said so), with this Bill / Law and their Anti-Porn Bill / Law. There's more coming unless they lose their majority. The authorship of the bill is publicly available information. You shouldn't call someone out unless you've researched first. My job is focused on politics in this state, and I know what's going on in the background. The federal govt has no control over state politics, especially right now. I'm not a democrat, but I hate what's going on with the GOP in this state right now.

[QUOTE=GMan7547;7046545]Not sure why my other post hasn't been posted yet (about the article of Kamala Harris and her crackdown on sex work), but this is what Harris was trying to get pushed out in San Francisco:

1. Convince the SWer that she's having to do this job because of the clients. They are the real criminals.

2. Provide mental health services for providers while putting the clients in jail.

3. Providing monetary help to the providers if they turn in their client list.

4. There was already a situation in SF where corrupt police were busted for notifying providers of potential stings and raids, because these police officers were partaking themselves. They were also busted for partaking with underage girls.

The same concept that Harris applied to San Francisco when she was the district attorney there is the same concept being applied here come December 1st. Providers are victims, clients are criminals. Clients provide the funding for purchase of their bodies (even though it was a consensual agreement between two adults), which they deem to be human trafficking, providers use it to pay for drugs, and to keep the high, they have to prostitute more. And then by a certain time, the providers are selling their bodies while being under the influence. This is how the politicians connect the dots and wind up prosecuting the clients.

Here's my opinion: You shouldn't police morality. Unless someone's freedom has been infringed upon, people should have the right to do whatever they want. Whether if it is deemed immoral or not. Free will. What should be policed is murder, theft, rape of an individual who did not consent, property damage, protect the underage. In no particular order mind you. Some people find smoking and drinking immoral. Some people find girls wearing short shorts and showing a lot of cleavage is immoral. Yet it's legal. The politicians seem to be OK with allowing guys into girls locker rooms and bathrooms, but if a guy wants to pay a willing girl for sex, that's a no-no. I just don't get it.

I do totally get stopping actual human trafficking, but I think anything sex work related, the politicians are trying to put that blanket definition on it, and that is not correct.[/QUOTE]Soliciting an adult in California is a misdemeanor. As it is in every other state but North Carolina and Texas, where it is now a felony. These are both states with complete Republican controlled legislatures and both bills were introduced by Republicans. Increasingly the 'churchy wing' of the party is focused on legislating what we can do with our private parts. I'm absolutely all for stopping pimps and recruiters that trap women, or assholes that take advantage of minors. But c'Mon., targeting men who use the services of a professional, adult provider? (So, we agree there for sure). If you put a hot 25 year old woman in front of any straight man and tell him he can have sex with her for $, he's going to do it. If he thinks no one will find out. Shouldn't they instead be trying to focus on opportunities to allow these women to be successful in other ways? Said another way, if LEO gets involved with an exchange, busts the man, and the owner of the property she's conducting biz on. Does anyone think the provider is suddenly going to stop offering services? This is her living. She can't be charged anymore. Why the hell would they stop? The whole premise is dumb, and won't lead to improving anyone's life. It's just a gigantic cash grab, especially for the fines they're going to be throwing at landlords. How the fuck would an Airbnb host go about asking a woman if she's a prostitute? You'd get reported to Airbnb or accused of solicitation. It's just a way to write a shit ton of fines. Basically everyone pays but the provider.

[QUOTE=MarkKern;7047782]Lester I totally agree with what you are saying! I get it! The ho's are going to need the roses to buy candy and they are not going to throw away that! But! Here is the but! They now know they have Kryptonite and they can get on to the good side of the law and they will not miss that opportunity to put you under the bus! Bottom line? Its going to get harder to get a pussy and its going to get expensive! Because! Now everyone will be shit scared! The Motel owners to rental places to the guy who gives them a ride! I don't think the medicine man or the pimp is going to care about this new legislation! Let us x our fingers and hope that its business as usual come 12/1 but I doubt it!

Mk.[/QUOTE]I've been ponderin' about the affect this new law is going, or not going to have on several things. If this new law is pushed as hard as folks believe it will be, how long will the authorities give said kryptonite to the 'providers' for ratting their customers out? Does that now mean prostitution is no longer a crime in the new era? It would seem that those who choose to use the Krypto would soon be blackballed by the current clients who have fed them for a long time. Are they only going to "rat out" specific mongers, and if so, sites like USASG will surely pass the word, eventually encasing the Krypto in lead boxes. They will eventually, as Daddy used to say, cut off their noses to spite their own faces. Another thing to ponder, is how will the law, if implemented like a mega-sting, actually affect the use of forums like this one and others across NC? Folks, that does seem to be a conundrum of sorts for most everyone involved. Quite frankly, I would imagine that most of the mongers on this site are leading somewhat of a dual life unless they are in "open relationships' with their 'significant others,' so that's going to put a lot of them in a drought of sorts.

I began talking about this upcoming change in the law for over a month with my go-to AMP provider. I'll not name her name here, but the relationship that I, as others with their favorites have, will not have too much worry about with them turning them in. But. Much due diligence among mongers and safe providers is still needed.

*Sorry, guys. I didn't mean to ramble or bloviate.

QB.

[QUOTE=QuottleBonger;7047891]I've been ponderin' about the affect this new law is going, or not going to have on several things. If this new law is pushed as hard as folks believe it will be, how long will the authorities give said kryptonite to the 'providers' for ratting their customers out? Does that now mean prostitution is no longer a crime in the new era? It would seem that those who choose to use the Krypto would soon be blackballed by the current clients who have fed them for a long time. Are they only going to "rat out" specific mongers, and if so, sites like USASG will surely pass the word, eventually encasing the Krypto in lead boxes. They will eventually, as Daddy used to say, cut off their noses to spite their own faces. Another thing to ponder, is how will the law, if implemented like a mega-sting, actually affect the use of forums like this one and others across NC? Folks, that does seem to be a conundrum of sorts for most everyone involved. Quite frankly, I would imagine that most of the mongers on this site are leading somewhat of a dual life unless they are in "open relationships' with their 'significant others,' so that's going to put a lot of them in a drought of sorts.

I began talking about this upcoming change in the law for over a month with my go-to AMP provider. I'll not name her name here, but the relationship that I, as others with their favorites have, will not have too much worry about with them turning them in. But. Much due diligence among mongers and safe providers is still needed.

*Sorry, guys. I didn't mean to ramble or bloviate.



QB.[/QUOTE]Yes! Your trusted provider will probably not throw you under the bus and most of the girls will continue business as usual because they got to have their medicine. A provider that does not like you or someone who has a beef with you can not only mess your day up but ruin your life for good! The new legislation changes the dynamics of the game. It now shifts the major part of the crime to the monger and considers the girl as the "victim". Thereby, if you are caught buying pussy you are toast! Nothing changes for the provider as they will continue to visit uncle LEO guest house with a revolving door and the doughnut posse and the pussy grabbers know that does not work and frankly the jails get overcrowded. Instead, why not make the monger as the target and take him out thereby cutting off the lifeline of the game? That is where they are going. A law with minimum effort and maximum impact. Because, with the mongers it is not going to be a revolving door. You get caught and you are done. Finito. Move to Alaska or Canada! That is where they want to take us my friends. I can see the writing on the wall and these f. Ing politicians will drive us out of the game and grab all the pussy to themselves!

Mk.

[QUOTE=QuottleBonger;7047891]I've been ponderin' about the affect this new law is going, or not going to have on several things. If this new law is pushed as hard as folks believe it will be, how long will the authorities give said kryptonite to the 'providers' for ratting their customers out? Does that now mean prostitution is no longer a crime in the new era? It would seem that those who choose to use the Krypto would soon be blackballed by the current clients who have fed them for a long time. Are they only going to "rat out" specific mongers, and if so, sites like USASG will surely pass the word, eventually encasing the Krypto in lead boxes. They will eventually, as Daddy used to say, cut off their noses to spite their own faces. Another thing to ponder, is how will the law, if implemented like a mega-sting, actually affect the use of forums like this one and others across NC? Folks, that does seem to be a conundrum of sorts for most everyone involved. Quite frankly, I would imagine that most of the mongers on this site are leading somewhat of a dual life unless they are in "open relationships' with their 'significant others,' so that's going to put a lot of them in a drought of sorts.

I began talking about this upcoming change in the law for over a month with my go-to AMP provider. I'll not name her name here, but the relationship that I, as others with their favorites have, will not have too much worry about with them turning them in. But. Much due diligence among mongers and safe providers is still needed..[/QUOTE]Hey fellow partakers, I sold C and MJ back in the 2010's til I got ratted out. Here's how it goes. There is no loyalty from addicts that we barely know. When they get jammed up you are done. This isn't about sex trafficking this is about it's connection to drugs, especially cartel pipelines. We are collateral damage. No one has sympathy for a dirty John. I'm in Va and will not be back after Dec. I was willing to take a misdemeanor but I have my gun rights back so ain't risking a felony. It's been a great ride but looks like I will have to stay north. Good luck. And for the poor souls that think She won't set You up, man wake tf up.

[QUOTE=MmceStep;7047731]Soliciting an adult in California is a misdemeanor. As it is in every other state but North Carolina and Texas, where it is now a felony. These are both states with complete Republican controlled legislatures and both bills were introduced by Republicans. Increasingly the 'churchy wing' of the party is focused on legislating what we can do with our private parts. I'm absolutely all for stopping pimps and recruiters that trap women, or assholes that take advantage of minors. But c'Mon., targeting men who use the services of a professional, adult provider? (So, we agree there for sure). If you put a hot 25 year old woman in front of any straight man and tell him he can have sex with her for $, he's going to do it. If he thinks no one will find out. Shouldn't they instead be trying to focus on opportunities to allow these women to be successful in other ways? Said another way, if LEO gets involved with an exchange, busts the man, and the owner of the property she's conducting biz on. Does anyone think the provider is suddenly going to stop offering services? This is her living. She can't be charged anymore. Why the hell would they stop? The whole premise is dumb, and won't lead to improving anyone's life. It's just a gigantic cash grab, especially for the fines they're going to be throwing at landlords. How the fuck would an Airbnb host go about asking a woman if she's a prostitute? You'd get reported to Airbnb or accused of solicitation. It's just a way to write a shit ton of fines. Basically everyone pays but the provider.[/QUOTE]I don't think it ever got passed, but it is fact that this is what Kamala Harris was pushing in Cali when she was the there. Her stance was the provider is the victim because she's having to sell her body for money and the provider is the criminal for purchasing her body.

Can someone tell me the advantages to using Secret Benefits? Who are you actually meeting from this site?

[QUOTE=MarkKern;7048030]Yes! Your trusted provider will probably not throw you under the bus and most of the girls will continue business as usual because they got to have their medicine. A provider that does not like you or someone who has a beef with you can not only mess your day up but ruin your life for good! The new legislation changes the dynamics of the game. It now shifts the major part of the crime to the monger and considers the girl as the "victim". Thereby, if you are caught buying pussy you are toast! Nothing changes for the provider as they will continue to visit uncle LEO guest house with a revolving door and the doughnut posse and the pussy grabbers know that does not work and frankly the jails get overcrowded. Instead, why not make the monger as the target and take him out thereby cutting off the lifeline of the game? That is where they are going. A law with minimum effort and maximum impact. Because, with the mongers it is not going to be a revolving door. You get caught and you are done. Finito. Move to Alaska or Canada! That is where they want to take us my friends. I can see the writing on the wall and these f. Ing politicians will drive us out of the game and grab all the pussy to themselves!

Mk.[/QUOTE]"The Einstein Theory is Relatively Simple" no more. Things used to be more simplistic but now it's becoming a seque from a cornfield to a mine field. As I never ask for FS, I can figure out, I hope, the battle plan going forward. When I was in Basic Training in the Army, we had to "zero" our M16 rifles specific to our own selves before we could fire them. I suppose the question for many-a-monger is "Can I 'zero' myself with the safest provider (s) who hopefully won't cause our 'needs' to ruin our lives and our 'hobby' I'm too old to let the little head betray the big one, so battle plan 12/1 and forward is a clandestine, hopefully, agreement with one or two, at the most, provider (s) whom I trust as much as is possible and whose comfort level with me is as solid as can be expected. Then again, I guess we'll not know the fulness of the law's intention until we see the fullness of the action towards their goal. If a lot of mongers are getting felony arrests at a rapid pace, the whole concept of "outside release providers" will eventually implode. Many of us, probably, are going to stand by at a safe distance until we see what happens and to whom it happens. Sigh.

*Forgive the 'philosphical' musing with military overtones, but it is going to be a battle.

QB.

[QUOTE=GMan7547;7051312]I don't think it ever got passed, but it is fact that this is what Kamala Harris was pushing in Cali when she was the there. Her stance was the provider is the victim because she's having to sell her body for money and the provider is the criminal for purchasing her body.[/QUOTE]Once again, I'm not a democrat, but I focus on what they 'do', not what they say. She didn't push for legislation in Cali while the Dems controlled all 3 branches. She didn't introduce a bill during her time in the senate. Trump proudly seized backpage, and the Republicans are pushing these felony john laws everywhere they have control. This 'holier than thou' shit is really making me reevaluate who I vote for.

[QUOTE=QuottleBonger;7051752]"The Einstein Theory is Relatively Simple" no more. Things used to be more simplistic but now it's becoming a seque from a cornfield to a mine field. As I never ask for FS, I can figure out, I hope, the battle plan going forward. When I was in Basic Training in the Army, we had to "zero" our M16 rifles specific to our own selves before we could fire them. I suppose the question for many-a-monger is "Can I 'zero' myself with the safest provider (s) who hopefully won't cause our 'needs' to ruin our lives and our 'hobby' I'm too old to let the little head betray the big one, so battle plan 12/1 and forward is a clandestine, hopefully, agreement with one or two, at the most, provider (s) whom I trust as much as is possible and whose comfort level with me is as solid as can be expected. Then again, I guess we'll not know the fulness of the law's intention until we see the fullness of the action towards their goal. If a lot of mongers are getting felony arrests at a rapid pace, the whole concept of "outside release providers" will eventually implode. Many of us, probably, are going to stand by at a safe distance until we see what happens and to whom it happens. Sigh.

*Forgive the 'philosphical' musing with military overtones, but it is going to be a battle.

QB.[/QUOTE]I agree with you on all fronts. Right now I'm leaning toward quitting the hobby, but I suspect I will probably settle on an UTR.

Any prognostications on how the new law will impact the SB hobby?

Will a disgruntled SB now become a "SW victim" if the date goes bad, or the compensation too low?

[QUOTE=MmceStep;7051811]Once again, I'm not a democrat, but I focus on what they 'do', not what they say. She didn't push for legislation in Cali while the Dems controlled all 3 branches. She didn't introduce a bill during her time in the senate. Trump proudly seized backpage, and the Republicans are pushing these felony john laws everywhere they have control. This 'holier than thou' shit is really making me reevaluate who I vote for.[/QUOTE]I'm sure it's bipartisan. This was when she was a the not a senator.

What precautions should we take leading up to and starting Dec 1st. I understand the ramifications of the law but not entirely sure what I should do or not do.

[QUOTE=GMan7547;7052603]I'm sure it's bipartisan. This was when she was a the not a senator.[/QUOTE]My point was that when she had that power, in a blue controlled senate. SHE DID NOT DRAFT A BILL. On one hand we have what one party is actually doing (having control for only 1 year in NC, after not having it for 100 years) and on the other hand we have lots of examples of democratically controlled places that are relatively free and open. Cali is a fantastic place to monger in. The women are so hot and if you go to Fig Blvd in LA, many of these girls look like models wearing lingerie. While you can certainly get yourself in trouble if you're not careful. LA could shut that faucet off anytime they want. They aren't, because they more or less let you do you.

[QUOTE=JRSmith274;7052637]What precautions should we take leading up to and starting Dec 1st. I understand the ramifications of the law but not entirely sure what I should do or not do.[/QUOTE]Honestly, I think it's going to be having some UTR girls that don't advertise that you already have access to, lay low with them for awhile until we hear if there have been any uptick in arrests. You're probably going to see an uptick in "new" ads that seem TGTBT on STG and other sites.

[QUOTE=JRSmith274;7052637]What precautions should we take leading up to and starting Dec 1st. I understand the ramifications of the law but not entirely sure what I should do or not do.[/QUOTE]I've been giving this lots of thought JR, and you're right we should start a whole new list of no-go situations. I'll start with some of the ones I've been thinking of, and I'd appreciate it if some smarter guys can add theirs.

1. No verification step which I'd's you personally. Look, all they need for solicitation is to know who you are, get your communication where you're agreeing to an exchange and showing that you showed up, intending to go through with it. Up to now, they needed to really get you in the moment, at the incall because while they might have raided these agencies to get their records, they can't prove you actually ever showed up if you paid cash, mainly because the girls wouldn't testify. So, today if they catch you showing up there with the cash- that's all they need, but it's just a misdemeanor. You're safe from the 'after the fact' stuff if they don't get you in the moment, with the exception that they could try to embarrass you by sending a letter to your home etc if you're on a customer list. (which they've done). After 12/1, with this being a felony and the providers having immunity, they can raid an agency, charge the owner with HT, and get him / her to testify against three years worth of listed clients for a reduced sentence. So, if you've snitched on yourself by sending a copy of your DL or the like. You don't know when they're coming for you. Knowing that you will have to serve a minimum of 4 months in jail and up to a year, this is not something I want to worry about. They will have enough evidence to charge you with the provider and / or agency owner saying you were there at x date and x time. The key is to not make it easy to identify you so they can just come pick you up at your house. I'm betting they won't want to do more investigative work than that, but who knows. Busting the 'verified list guys' with copies of I'd's sitting in a filing cabinet is a layup for LEO.

2. Never pay by electronic payment services. Cash only. They can just get a remote warrant for venmo, cashapp etc to get your identifying info, then see above.

3. No discussion of an exchange via text or phone. If it's a sting, they'll need this. Use this forum to understand the rates being charged and services offered for a provider. Show up and get the provider to touch you inappropriately and initiate the offer. While a cop could do this and still bust you, it's unlikely they will. Then you're a little more comfortable discussing details.

4. The TOFTT days are over. There will be many, many more stings. New ads for new providers not reviewed here will be where most of these can occur.

5. Old ads with new phone #'s could be a sting as well. I've already heard a detective tell me they plan to do this. You respond to an ad you think is Demi, but the text phone # belongs to LEO. You're going to have to do some additional homework to stay safe.

6. Maintain anonymity with the provider as much as possible. Don't follow her instructions ("Go in this door to the hotel", "bring me this kind of soda" "Tell me what car you're driving" etc (this is used to link the person who shows up to the text conversation). Also, If things go bad with the provider (she tries to scam you, gets irate at you for something bc she's a crackhead) you want to be able to walk out that door, take a different exit out of the hotel than the one she sent you to knowing that she can see your car and read your lic. Plate. Remember that she can now call the cops and turn you in. You want to be able to disappear unexpectedly.

7. This is a major shift in the risk factor for each of the participants. Legal risk used to be 50/50. Now it is virtually 100/0, with you taking all the risk. I suppose there's collateral risk to her if she has drugs, warrants etc, but you don't KNOW that's the case at first contact. You have to assume it's 100/0, so in my mind that means I'm not jumping through any hoops to make sure the provider is comfortable. In fact, going forward I really want her to offer all the exchange details up. She can't be charged for doing that any longer. If she says "I'll give you a BBBJ for $", she's safe from LEO and it would be entrapment for them to charge you if you just say "OKAY'. LEO isn't going to be doing that. Hopefully providers who travel to other places will have a new 'NC M. O. ' and an 'everywhere else M. O'. If she has you doing anything to 'protect her' after 12/1, you're nuts, imo. Good providers should be shifting to protect you after 12/1.

8. There's no way I'm responding to an UTR provider post from anyone except a really long term well known senior on this forum. Giving them your personal details linked to your screen name here makes everything you've ever typed here evidence. That's the easiest sting I can imagine. We've had posters with like 19 posts say "I have a UTR, just DM me for contact info. " You think LEO's aren't going to have profiles on here? I bet each one is going to have 10, LOL.

The rules of this game are about to be turned on their heads guys. Please let me know what other risks you see that would have to be dealt with.

[QUOTE=CuriousVaMan;7051891]Any prognostications on how the new law will impact the SB hobby?

Will a disgruntled SB now become a "SW victim" if the date goes bad, or the compensation too low?[/QUOTE]I'm worried about that one too. Specifically I had one that became a real GF. She got used to living the high life, traveling around the world etc. Everything was great, until it wasn't. When I eventually broke up with her she threatened to blow up my life by contacting my work to tell them where we met etc. That caused me to delete my profile, before she even left my driveway and take some other precautions. When she got home she texted me that she was pissed I had deleted my profile before she copied everything. Theoretically if it was after 12/1 she could claim that I trafficked her. I'm sure LEO could have easily subpoenaed my original messages to her even if I deleted everything. She would have loved the opportunity to send me away for 4 months-1 year with no possibility of probation. In my career that's a death sentence.

[QUOTE=MmceStep;7053099]I'm worried about that one too. Specifically I had one that became a real GF. She got used to living the high life, traveling around the world etc. Everything was great, until it wasn't. When I eventually broke up with her she threatened to blow up my life by contacting my work to tell them where we met etc. That caused me to delete my profile, before she even left my driveway and take some other precautions. When she got home she texted me that she was pissed I had deleted my profile before she copied everything. Theoretically if it was after 12/1 she could claim that I trafficked her. I'm sure LEO could have easily subpoenaed my original messages to her even if I deleted everything. She would have loved the opportunity to send me away for 4 months-1 year with no possibility of probation. In my career that's a death sentence.[/QUOTE]You guys are totally overthinking and dramatizing this. The penalty for getting caught may change but that doesn't mean the level of policing does. New law is intended as a deterrent. The courts and jails are already overloaded, you think they can afford to add a bunch of dumb ass Johns into the system.

It will be the same way it is now. Just don't be stupid and don't get caught.

[QUOTE=Banger12;7053324]You guys are totally overthinking and dramatizing this. The penalty for getting caught may change but that doesn't mean the level of policing does. New law is intended as a deterrent. The courts and jails are already overloaded, you think they can afford to add a bunch of dumb ass Johns into the system.

It will be the same way it is now. Just don't be stupid and don't get caught.[/QUOTE]That's not correct. I have a close friend who's a detective (not vice). His department is quadrupling the size of the vice unit, developing new tactics for after Dec. 1. and this, is the big one. Two FBI task forces are moving into NC to conduct operations for an extended period after 12/1. They will do the busts and will hand the perps over to the locals for felony charges. Take it lightly if you want. I won't be doing that.

[QUOTE=MmceStep;7053079]I've been giving this lots of thought JR, and you're right we should start a whole new list of no-go situations. I'll start with some of the ones I've been thinking of, and I'd appreciate it if some smarter guys can add theirs.

1. No verification step which I'd's you personally. Look, all they need for solicitation is to know who you are, get your communication where you're agreeing to an exchange and showing that you showed up, intending to go through with it. Up to now, they needed to really get you in the moment, at the incall because while they might have raided these agencies to get their records, they can't prove you actually ever showed up if you paid cash, mainly because the girls wouldn't testify. So, today if they catch you showing up there with the cash- that's all they need, but it's just a misdemeanor. You're safe from the 'after the fact' stuff if they don't get you in the moment, with the exception that they could try to embarrass you by sending a letter to your home etc if you're on a customer list. (which they've done). After 12/1, with this being a felony and the providers having immunity, they can raid an agency, charge the owner with HT, and get him / her to testify against three years worth of listed clients for a reduced sentence. So, if you've snitched on yourself by sending a copy of your DL or the like. You don't know when they're coming for you. Knowing that you will have to serve a minimum of 4 months in jail and up to a year, this is not something I want to worry about. They will have enough evidence to charge you with the provider and / or agency owner saying you were there at x date and x time. The key is to not make it easy to identify you so they can just come pick you up at your house. I'm betting they won't want to do more investigative work than that, but who knows. Busting the 'verified list guys' with copies of I'd's sitting in a filing cabinet is a layup for LEO.

2. Never pay by electronic payment services. Cash only. They can just get a remote warrant for venmo, cashapp etc to get your identifying info, then see above.

3. No discussion of an exchange via text or phone. If it's a sting, they'll need this. Use this forum to understand the rates being charged and services offered for a provider. Show up and get the provider to touch you inappropriately and initiate the offer. While a cop could do this and still bust you, it's unlikely they will. Then you're a little more comfortable discussing details.

4. The TOFTT days are over. There will be many, many more stings. New ads for new providers not reviewed here will be where most of these can occur.

5. Old ads with new phone #'s could be a sting as well. I've already heard a detective tell me they plan to do this. You respond to an ad you think is Demi, but the text phone # belongs to LEO. You're going to have to do some additional homework to stay safe.

6. Maintain anonymity with the provider as much as possible. Don't follow her instructions ("Go in this door to the hotel", "bring me this kind of soda" "Tell me what car you're driving" etc (this is used to link the person who shows up to the text conversation). Also, If things go bad with the provider (she tries to scam you, gets irate at you for something bc she's a crackhead) you want to be able to walk out that door, take a different exit out of the hotel than the one she sent you to knowing that she can see your car and read your lic. Plate. Remember that she can now call the cops and turn you in. You want to be able to disappear unexpectedly.

7. This is a major shift in the risk factor for each of the participants. Legal risk used to be 50/50. Now it is virtually 100/0, with you taking all the risk. I suppose there's collateral risk to her if she has drugs, warrants etc, but you don't KNOW that's the case at first contact. You have to assume it's 100/0, so in my mind that means I'm not jumping through any hoops to make sure the provider is comfortable. In fact, going forward I really want her to offer all the exchange details up. She can't be charged for doing that any longer. If she says "I'll give you a BBBJ for $", she's safe from LEO and it would be entrapment for them to charge you if you just say "OKAY'..[/QUOTE]This is a lot to unpack. First of all, I do agree, I think mongers need to be smart and not brush this off. At least for the first little bit. Here are my brief thoughts:

- Expect there to be more fake profiles and ads on these escort sites. If you communicate with the individual you assume to be in the ad you need to remember **You are paying her for her TIME** which is not illegal.

- UTR is the better way to go, especially if the girls are low volume. If this is just a part time thing and they have a real full time job. Even better! Chances are, they are going to be candy free and more down to earth.

- TOFTT is going to be a lot more risky, which is why you need to be very cautious when you communicate with these providers.

- I don't mind payment apps as long as she is not expecting payment up front before I see her. Here's the thing, just because you pay someone with Venmo or CashApp doesn't mean there's a record of you paying for sex. You can even give a reason of "School fundraiser" or "Gave money for food". Now, if you're stupid and you say, "This is for me fucking this hot provider I found on STG". Well. I digress. I am not convinced that any type of warrant looking at someone's cashapp is really going to be any damning evidence of solicitation. What if the girl stopped you as you were walking into Walmart and was begging for money for food and you cashapp'd her for that not knowing she is a provider? Do you get in trouble for giving her money for food when you had no other intentions other than to give her money for food?

- Yeah, cash is always king and it really does protect the client and provider. But honestly the worst about using the apps is that if your spouse happens to grab your phone and pull up your cash app and sees that you paid "Sexy Big Titty Sarah" $150, she's obviously going to know what you're using it for.

- There's going to be LEOs here on this site. Just expect it. Don't say anything that will incriminate yourself. Take it to DM if you have to.

- I don't have any other points right now. If you're too horny and start thinking with the little had, just give him a good wack and you're be OK LOL!

[QUOTE=MmceStep;7053833]That's not correct. I have a close friend who's a detective (not vice). His department is quadrupling the size of the vice unit, developing new tactics for after Dec. 1. and this, is the big one. Two FBI task forces are moving into NC to conduct operations for an extended period after 12/1. They will do the busts and will hand the perps over to the locals for felony charges. Take it lightly if you want. I won't be doing that.[/QUOTE]I can appreciate the anti trafficking stance that they are taking. I'm all for it. But I don't do STG or any escort sites, AMPs or SW. The connections I make through SA or SB, I go slow and vet through coms and M&G with the goal of long term. If some task force wants to spend resources setting me up for a mug shot and some community service. Well have at it.

My gut tells me they are going after large pimp rings and Asian and Hispanic trafficking. This net will catch the low hanging rotten fruit and the stupid. I think meeting a chick at the local sports bar for light talk about allowance for f'ing her brains out back at my place will still be okay.

[QUOTE=GMan7547;7054129]This is a lot to unpack. First of all, I do agree, I think mongers need to be smart and not brush this off. At least for the first little bit. Here are my brief thoughts:

- Expect there to be more fake profiles and ads on these escort sites. If you communicate with the individual you assume to be in the ad you need to remember **You are paying her for her TIME** which is not illegal.

- UTR is the better way to go, especially if the girls are low volume. If this is just a part time thing and they have a real full time job. Even better! Chances are, they are going to be candy free and more down to earth.

- TOFTT is going to be a lot more risky, which is why you need to be very cautious when you communicate with these providers.

- I don't mind payment apps as long as she is not expecting payment up front before I see her. Here's the thing, just because you pay someone with Venmo or CashApp doesn't mean there's a record of you paying for sex. You can even give a reason of "School fundraiser" or "Gave money for food". Now, if you're stupid and you say, "This is for me fucking this hot provider I found on STG". Well. I digress. I am not convinced that any type of warrant looking at someone's cashapp is really going to be any damning evidence of solicitation. What if the girl stopped you as you were walking into Walmart and was begging for money for food and you cashapp'd her for that not knowing she is a provider? Do you get in trouble for giving her money for food when you had no other intentions other than to give her money for food?

- Yeah, cash is always king and it really does protect the client and provider. But honestly the worst about using the apps is that if your spouse happens to grab your phone and pull up your cash app and sees that you paid "Sexy Big Titty Sarah" $150, she's obviously going to know what you're using it for.

- There's going to be LEOs here on this site. Just expect it. Don't say anything that will incriminate yourself. Take it to DM if you have to.

- I don't have any other points right now. If you're too horny and start thinking with the little had, just give him a good wack and you're be OK LOL![/QUOTE]Really good points Gman. Thanks.

[QUOTE=Banger12;7054539]I can appreciate the anti trafficking stance that they are taking. I'm all for it. But I don't do STG or any escort sites, AMPs or SW. The connections I make through SA or SB, I go slow and vet through coms and M&G with the goal of long term. If some task force wants to spend resources setting me up for a mug shot and some community service. Well have at it.

My gut tells me they are going after large pimp rings and Asian and Hispanic trafficking. This net will catch the low hanging rotten fruit and the stupid. I think meeting a chick at the local sports bar for light talk about allowance for f'ing her brains out back at my place will still be okay.[/QUOTE]You should read the law. They'll certainly pursue anyone that a woman (now victim) turns in and wants to testify against. That's how it's angled. I'm really only replying to this one point, so that others understand the penalty. Understanding the penalty is key here, because the detectives will always say something like "hey just admit it and take your slap on the hand" to get you to make their job easier. There is no more slap on the hand, so admission gets you f*cked. They've specifically excluded Prayer For Judgment for Solicitation in this law, for JOHNS. What this means is that you serve a 4 month minimum in jail, and up to one year. Sure, with a soft judge and no previous offense that means you'll get the minimum 4 months and a felony conviction. I bet this would really, really screw up 95% of the guys on this board. This new law is about JOHNS, not 'large pimp rings'. It's called a 'Human Trafficking Law', which is a bit deceptive, imo. But very informative. They are shifting the thinking in this state about what Human Trafficking is, and if you read the transcript from the state legislature discussion of the bill, you'd realize this is a John Law. They're now blaming the consumers and the people making money off the lodging. FOR THE WHOLE PLIGHT OF THESE WOMEN. That's the really, really important message that we're trying to convey here. There's no 'Community Service' that's going to be offered to you. You will be considered a Human Trafficker.

Take appropriate caution, or don't. All I ask is that if you get busted, you immediately post on here after release to let us know which ad got you and describe the tactics that were used. So we can all be aware and avoid that path.

[QUOTE=MmceStep;7055410]You should read the law. They'll certainly pursue anyone that a woman (now victim) turns in and wants to testify against. That's how it's angled. I'm really only replying to this one point, so that others understand the penalty. Understanding the penalty is key here, because the detectives will always say something like "hey just admit it and take your slap on the hand" to get you to make their job easier. There is no more slap on the hand, so admission gets you f*cked. They've specifically excluded Prayer For Judgment for Solicitation in this law, for JOHNS. What this means is that you serve a 4 month minimum in jail, and up to one year. Sure, with a soft judge and no previous offense that means you'll get the minimum 4 months and a felony conviction. I bet this would really, really screw up 95% of the guys on this board. This new law is about JOHNS, not 'large pimp rings'. It's called a 'Human Trafficking Law', which is a bit deceptive, imo. But very informative. They are shifting the thinking in this state about what Human Trafficking is, and if you read the transcript from the state legislature discussion of the bill, you'd realize this is a John Law. They're now blaming the consumers and the people making money off the lodging. FOR THE WHOLE PLIGHT OF THESE WOMEN. That's the really, really important message that we're trying to convey here. There's no 'Community Service' that's going to be offered to you. You will be considered a Human Trafficker..[/QUOTE]Exactly! They are going to angle it as the client is purchasing the woman's body, thus, being broadly under the definition of human trafficking.

[QUOTE=Banger12;7054539]I can appreciate the anti trafficking stance that they are taking. I'm all for it. But I don't do STG or any escort sites, AMPs or SW. Thei connections I make through SA or SB, I go slow and vet through coms and M&G with the goal of long term. If some task force wants to spend resources setting me up for a mug shot and some community service. Well have at it.

My gut tells me they are going after large pimp rings and Asian and Hispanic trafficking. This net will catch the low hanging rotten fruit and the stupid. I think meeting a chick at the local sports bar for light talk about allowance for f'ing her brains out back at my place will still be okay.[/QUOTE]Do you know the name of any sports bars in the area to meet women?

There's a Hooters on Gate City at I40 and in Burlington, and a Twin Peaks in W-S.

It's a long game, but some waitresses are game.

[QUOTE=GMan7547;7055516]Exactly! They are going to angle it as the client is purchasing the woman's body, thus, being broadly under the definition of human trafficking.[/QUOTE]I'm not purchasing, who wants to own it? I just want to use it for a few minutes.

[QUOTE=RICheeseHead;7065885]There's a Hooters on Gate City at I40 and in Burlington, and a Twin Peaks in W-S.

It's a long game, but some waitresses are game.[/QUOTE]I haven't been to Twin Peaks but I've been to the Hooters in Burlington and the girls there are much hotter than the ones in Greensboro. However, they look pretty young. I don't know how you'd even broach the topic with them.

[QUOTE=GMan7547;7075135]I haven't been to Twin Peaks but I've been to the Hooters in Burlington and the girls there are much hotter than the ones in Greensboro. However, they look pretty young. I don't know how you'd even broach the topic with them.[/QUOTE]I took my adult daughter to Twin Peaks for lunch in the middle of the day (because she had heard that a particular menu item was good). I figured middle of the day on a weekday was going to be pretty sterile. And our server was wearing straight up see through lingerie. She was gorgeous, and probably 22 ish. I'm talking like full on strip club vibes, but in completely bright, middle-of-the-day lighting. I had to not look at her because I didn't want my daughter to see me being a perv, LOL. My daughter asked her like 100 fashion related questions, and I'm thinking 'someone just kill me right now'.

Invite her to the house so the girls can talk fashion, then when daughter is in bathroom or something, feel the waitress out (verbally, see if she'd be open to something, slowly ask about boyfriend, school loans etc.).

Hey clear some DM space for reply friend.

[QUOTE=MmceStep;7075176]I took my adult daughter to Twin Peaks for lunch in the middle of the day (because she had heard that a particular menu item was good). I figured middle of the day on a weekday was going to be pretty sterile. And our server was wearing straight up see through lingerie. She was gorgeous, and probably 22 ish. I'm talking like full on strip club vibes, but in completely bright, middle-of-the-day lighting. I had to not look at her because I didn't want my daughter to see me being a perv, LOL. My daughter asked her like 100 fashion related questions, and I'm thinking 'someone just kill me right now'.[/QUOTE]That's it! I'm headin' to Twin Peaks!

Anyone have thoughts as to how law enforcement might try to engage us on this forum? What should we be on the lookout for?

[QUOTE=JRSmith274;7110467]Anyone have thoughts as to how law enforcement might try to engage us on this forum? What should we be on the lookout for?[/QUOTE]In my opinion, you will likely see an increase in new regular members as well as resurrected Senior members. They will exhibit unusual posting habits such as quoting something you said and posting it in another forum with pictures of the girl you're talking about. In my opinion, that is gathering evidence. A lot easier for LEO to just be directed to one forum where JR posted this about X girl and I have pictures posted to go with the quote. Police don't have time to go through every single post, so this makes it much easier for them. They likely have paid informants to search the forums rather than them sitting down at a desk doing it themselves.

I would also add these members posting very positive reviews about ads that don't seem legit, or either ads that a lot of the regular senior mongers know are old ads from girls who have either moved on or deceased. My rule of thumb is, don't trust anybody. Treat the forum as if everything you post is going to be seen by LE, because, well, it probably will be.

A girl that I had met before wants to hang around in the day, and I don't have a place. She does weed: So, what are the places to go and hang around with girls? .

SG.

[QUOTE=GMan7547;7178748]In my opinion, you will likely see an increase in new regular members as well as resurrected Senior members. They will exhibit unusual posting habits such as quoting something you said and posting it in another forum with pictures of the girl you're talking about. In my opinion, that is gathering evidence. A lot easier for LEO to just be directed to one forum where JR posted this about X girl and I have pictures posted to go with the quote. Police don't have time to go through every single post, so this makes it much easier for them. They likely have paid informants to search the forums rather than them sitting down at a desk doing it themselves.

I would also add these members posting very positive reviews about ads that don't seem legit, or either ads that a lot of the regular senior mongers know are old ads from girls who have either moved on or deceased. My rule of thumb is, don't trust anybody. Treat the forum as if everything you post is going to be seen by LE, because, well, it probably will be.[/QUOTE]I'm not saying that these guys are LEO for sure, but I would expect an infiltration would look like some of the recent posts on our Escorts thread. New members with low post counts all promoting and vouching for a new ad / new # for a provider that they claim is an old, safe provider that's come back to the business. IMO, you contact a provider with that setup at great risk. Now, if one of our trusted seniors posts 'I responded to the ad, she's real etc.', then that's a different story. But if you're only trusting 3 random new accounts with like 12-18 posts hyping a brand new ads, all posting the same message within a few days of each other.