Like Beef Lolo?

[QUOTE=LightBringer;3498717]I'll get a dog when you get an blow up doll. I guess this one is going to end up in the fight thread.[/QUOTE]I really don't give a shit about what you think I should do, or what you'll do. I'm just telling you what I wish someone told me 20 years ago when I went down this road.

And I really don't care what you do with my advice. I'm old enough to know everyone thinks they're going to be "that guy", and everyone learns the hard (and in this case, expensive) way.

But hey, it's your money and those girls are more than willing to take it. This is a game to them. You can be a player or you can be played.

[QUOTE=DangerBoy;3499259]

But hey, it's your money and those girls are more than willing to take it. This is a game to them. You can be a player or you can be played.[/QUOTE]Absolutely agree. Bump.

When I posted my candid opinion of an aged provider I was quickly attacked for my age discrimination problem.

"Everyone has different tastes, no reason to bash on the girl if not your type. Imagine what would be said if they posted reviews on."

Perhaps if I were a sir Lancelot or other paladin type who would throw his cape across the mud puddle to let the princess cross, I'd need a safe space to write a poem in to express my hurt feelings, but I'm just a simple fellow who desires to have Uncomplicated sex with Attractive providers to satiate my savage lust for a bit until it bubbles over again.

While I agree that it's not very gentlemanly or chivalrous to "bash" a provider, if I'm expected to be handing over what's significantly more than my own wage / hour to some lovely hostess in a brothel, she ought to be approaching a minimum standard of looks, service, and attitude. If the tables were turned as was suggested by the defender of the reputation of the provider, I'd either be looking for other work, or likely starving, but I'm not being paid for my uncomplicated sexual availablity, services, looks or attitude, so if I want to be an unchivalrous ass, then I suppose that's aok.
Perhaps if I suddenly develop a great deal of empathy for the people who are voluntarily chooosing to be paid (reasonably) for a service that required little effort for them to qualify for, I might cry myself to sleep or be mad at other mongers who post unflattering info about my ATF of the moment but until then. I'll probably just keep looking for the good ones, tossing the chaff by the wayside, sleeping, eating and pooping like the quasi unconscious caveman that I am.

-W.

And I don't really give a shit what you wish someone would have told you 20 years ago. I didn't ask for your basic advice. I've heard all that before. Don't fall for the act, everybody wants to be "that guy", pay them to leave not to stay, etc. Etc. Been there, done that, moved on already. Everyone plays the game a little differently. Don't assume that because I look for something different than you that it means that I do so out of ignorance.

If I have put my hand too close to the flame once before, it doesn't mean I am going to be scared of fire from now on. Quite the opposite in fact.

Thanks to the rest of you who gave me some good ideas, in the threads and by PM.

[QUOTE=DangerBoy;3499259]I really don't give a shit about what you think I should do, or what you'll do. I'm just telling you what I wish someone told me 20 years ago when I went down this road.

And I really don't care what you do with my advice. I'm old enough to know everyone thinks they're going to be "that guy", and everyone learns the hard (and in this case, expensive) way.

But hey, it's your money and those girls are more than willing to take it. This is a game to them. You can be a player or you can be played.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=LightBringer;3500614]And I don't really give a shit what you wish someone would have told you 20 years ago. I didn't ask for your basic advice. I've heard all that before. Don't fall for the act, everybody wants to be "that guy", pay them to leave not to stay, etc. Etc. Been there, done that, moved on already. Everyone plays the game a little differently. Don't assume that because I look for something different than you that it means that I do so out of ignorance.

If I have put my hand too close to the flame once before, it doesn't mean I am going to be scared of fire from now on. Quite the opposite in fact.

Thanks to the rest of you who gave me some good ideas, in the threads and by PM.[/QUOTE]I hope you let us know. If not all of us, just me will be fine. I thought your original post was interesting and gave me a something to think about. Unfortunately, I could not come up with someone to suggest to you.

[QUOTE=LightBringer;3500614]And I don't really give a shit what you wish someone would have told you 20 years ago. I didn't ask for your basic advice. I've heard all that before. Don't fall for the act, everybody wants to be "that guy", pay them to leave not to stay, etc. Etc. Been there, done that, moved on already. Everyone plays the game a little differently. Don't assume that because I look for something different than you that it means that I do so out of ignorance.

If I have put my hand too close to the flame once before, it doesn't mean I am going to be scared of fire from now on. Quite the opposite in fact.

Thanks to the rest of you who gave me some good ideas, in the threads and by PM.[/QUOTE]No you're putting up a strawman argument. It's not "ignorance" to want something different than what other mongers want. That's not what we're saying.

It's wilful avoidance to face facts. Looking for love by being a john to a hooker is a one way ticket to broken hearts, broken dreams, and a broken bank account.

Yes, many independent hookers who aren't drug addled or beholden to a pimp actually do have a life outside the sex trade. For sure. They have private lives too. And THAT is where these girls will go to find love, whether they have day jobs like Leia or go to school or have friends and family to hang with socially. You think their idea of romantic love involves a john that trolls the internet looking to pay girls for sex? The only kind of romance you will ever enjoy with a hooker as a john is the kind where you are their bank. That is it.

There is not a single person on this forum that has managed to sustain a long lasting, 15-20 year, committed relationship or marriage based on "love" with a hooker. Not a single one. Every story ends with the monger learning a big lesson, or a monger not able to handle the hooker's job, or on rare occasions the hooker becoming too clingy, or whatever. This just does not exist.

Go to a dating site and you will have a 5 percent, 10 percent, or 20 percent chance of finding the woman you end up settling down with and growing old with. Take the AMP route as a john and your success rate will be 0. 0 percent.

[QUOTE=ClintonPortis;3503458]

Yes, many independent hookers who aren't drug addled or beholden to a pimp actually do have a life outside the sex trade. For sure. They have private lives too. And THAT is where these girls will go to find love, whether they have day jobs like Leia or go to school or have friends and family to hang with socially. You think their idea of romantic love involves a john that trolls the internet looking to pay girls for sex? The only kind of romance you will ever enjoy with a hooker as a john is the kind where you are their bank. That is it.

There is not a single person on this forum that has managed to sustain a long lasting, 15-20 year, committed relationship or marriage based on "love" with a hooker. Not a single one.
[/QUOTE]Yup, pretty much agree with this although I never think in terms of 100% as there may be the occasional exception. First KBG I ever knew, I met at a local "regular" nightclub. She mentioned she worked at some KB. I, being a newbie, said "That's a hostess bar right? So I suggested if I buy her a drink that would be like working to her so best she buy me drinks. She bought into that haha! Anyways, I do know some of the "girls" social media accounts. You know what's in them? Pictures of family and friends. Not one picture of a john or customer. As mongers we indict ourselves whether in a KB or an AMP just by the fact that we're there willing to buy a girls time or body. Looking for something behind the eyes? Something "deeper" haha. Egotism probably should be compartmentalized when mongering as most of the girls are pretty smart already. They know who you are, what kind of person you are, and they know how to stroke that ego if you expose it.

As an aside, my former ATF after the deed once asked me "In a world filled with nothing but frogs, is god a frog?" Haha an unexpected question to be sure! Looking for a smart girl? They're everywhere but just choose to not show you.

SS.

[QUOTE=Wulfen;3499504]When I posted my candid opinion of an aged provider I was quickly attacked for my age discrimination problem.

"Everyone has different tastes, no reason to bash on the girl if not your type. Imagine what would be said if they posted reviews on."

Perhaps if I were a sir Lancelot or other paladin type who would throw his cape across the mud puddle to let the princess cross, I'd need a safe space to write a poem in to express my hurt feelings, but I'm just a simple fellow who desires to have Uncomplicated sex with Attractive providers to satiate my savage lust for a bit until it bubbles over again.

While I agree that it's not very gentlemanly or chivalrous to "bash" a provider, if I'm expected to be handing over what's significantly more than my own wage / hour to some lovely hostess in a brothel, she ought to be approaching a minimum standard of looks, service, and attitude. If the tables were turned as was suggested by the defender of the reputation of the provider, I'd either be looking for other work, or likely starving, but I'm not being paid for my uncomplicated sexual availablity, services, looks or attitude, so if I want to be an unchivalrous ass, then I suppose that's aok.
Perhaps if I suddenly develop a great deal of empathy for the people who are voluntarily chooosing to be paid (reasonably) for a service that required little effort for them to qualify for, I might cry myself to sleep or be mad at other mongers who post unflattering info about my ATF of the moment but until then. I'll probably just keep looking for the good ones, tossing the chaff by the wayside, sleeping, eating and pooping like the quasi unconscious caveman that I am.

-W.[/QUOTE]Amen brother. I pretty much said the same thing when I was criticized for posting an honest but bad review on a popular provider.

[QUOTE=Shipshape;3504265]As mongers we indict ourselves whether in a KB or an AMP just by the fact that we're there willing to buy a girls time or body. Looking for something behind the eyes? Something "deeper" haha. Egotism probably should be compartmentalized when mongering as most of the girls are pretty smart already. They know who you are, what kind of person you are, and they know how to stroke that ego if you expose it.[/QUOTE]There is something to this.

This is just an anecdote - I had a tinder date with a girl studying chemical engineering here on Oahu. Our date did not lead anywhere, but the conversation was interesting. It turned out she also stripped at 939 to pay tuition. She told me that she discovered she makes a lot more money by playing dumb. Guys would come in, try to impress her with their knowledge, and even if they were wrong she made way more money by sticking to "oh, honey you are so smart!" When she actually challenged a client or pointed out an error, she made far less. She said it was common knowledge with the popular girls, try to be as pretty as possible and play dumb.

She also mentioned the first thing a guy can do to be disqualified automatically from the pool of men she would consider dating is show up at the club. She gets asked out constantly while dancing. In her words, "I'll never date a guy that comes to the club. Nope, not doing it. ".

In AMPs, I've found that most girls are very careful to keep their private life separate, guarded. This includes things like real name, family, normal social media accounts, etc. Getting added on Kakaotalk with a a girls work number is one thing, knowing a provider or her friends and family beyond the job is quite another. Even with girls that have added me on facebook, like Vivian from Mayflower, her account is 100% her life on the mainland, pictures of friends, family, her sons. This life is all a sealed past now.

When a girl is finally ready to close this chapter on her life, many choose to shut it off completely, zero attachments to their former life, move to a different zip code, a different state. And that work phone full of monger phone numbers and endless texts gets erased.

[QUOTE=LonelySmiles;3504389]There is something to this.

This is just an anecdote - I had a tinder date with a girl studying chemical engineering here on Oahu. Our date did not lead anywhere, but the conversation was interesting. It turned out she also stripped at 939 to pay tuition. She told me that she discovered she makes a lot more money by playing dumb. Guys would come in, try to impress her with their knowledge, and even if they were wrong she made way more money by sticking to "oh, honey you are so smart!" When she actually challenged a client or pointed out an error, she made far less. She said it was common knowledge with the popular girls, try to be as pretty as possible and play dumb.

She also mentioned the first thing a guy can do to be disqualified automatically from the pool of men she would consider dating is show up at the club. She gets asked out constantly while dancing. In her words, "I'll never date a guy that comes to the club. Nope, not doing it. ".

In AMPs, I've found that most girls are very careful to keep their private life separate, guarded. This includes things like real name, family, normal social media accounts, etc. Getting added on Kakaotalk with a a girls work number is one thing, knowing a provider or her friends and family beyond the job is quite another. Even with girls that have added me on facebook, like Vivian from Mayflower, her account is 100% her life on the mainland, pictures of friends, family, her sons. This life is all a sealed past now.

When a girl is finally ready to close this chapter on her life, many choose to shut it off completely, zero attachments to their former life, move to a different zip code, a different state. And that work phone full of monger phone numbers and endless texts gets erased.[/QUOTE]Is this girl still working at 939? Experience has taught me that "I'll never date a guy that comes to the club. " is usually I'll never date another guy that comes to the club".

That's fine, but where exactly did I say that I was looking for romance? Where did I say I was looking for a long lasting committed relationship?

To be clear, I am sympathetic to the notion that we are all human beings, on both sides, irrational and unpredictable, and anything could happen. However unlikely you might think it is, however unwise you think it might be to go looking for, stranger things have happened. If you want to give advice to people that it is not advisable to go looking for romance, go ahead. I think that is good advice. But don't assume that you are smart enough to know what every single person is capable of or what their motivation is.

As for why I seek absolution among fallen angels, I have my reasons. I have a karmic debt to repay. I will find at least one person who is looking to escape. I will extend my hand and they will either understand what this gesture means, or they will not. If they take my hand, I will pull them out whatever prison they find themselves locked in. Yeah, I probably have to let myself fall in love with them to put in that type of effort. And yeah, I already know how that will ultimately end. But I am not looking for something to possess. I am looking for something to set free. What do I get out of it? It wouldn't make sense to anyone else, because only I determine the purpose of my actions for myself. We all have our reasons for what we do. I write my own story, and I choose to live it. How much money would you be willing to part with for the sake of being the person you really want to be? $150? For one hour? Add a few zeroes to that number, and a lifetime to that timespan, and that is what I am actually putting into play with every encounter. I have a secret contempt for the money, and a secret respect for the person. That sound crazy to you? Yeah, I understand. But tell me who among you is really normal?

No, I don't think I am a better person than you. It's likely that I just have to work that much harder to find the simple happiness and self-satisfaction that you take for granted. But it's okay. It all evens out in the end.

So yeah I understand your argument. I think you cling too dearly to absolutes in order to find security in pedestrian street wisdom. But in any case, you are arguing with someone, but that someone is not me.

13 - I kept my word. I kept the faith. If you need a light, I will bring one.

[QUOTE=ClintonPortis;3503458]No you're putting up a strawman argument. It's not "ignorance" to want something different than what other mongers want. That's not what we're saying.

It's wilful avoidance to face facts. Looking for love by being a john to a hooker is a one way ticket to broken hearts, broken dreams, and a broken bank account.

Yes, many independent hookers who aren't drug addled or beholden to a pimp actually do have a life outside the sex trade. For sure. They have private lives too. And THAT is where these girls will go to find love, whether they have day jobs like Leia or go to school or have friends and family to hang with socially. You think their idea of romantic love involves a john that trolls the internet looking to pay girls for sex? The only kind of romance you will ever enjoy with a hooker as a john is the kind where you are their bank. That is it.

There is not a single person on this forum that has managed to sustain a long lasting, 15-20 year, committed relationship or marriage based on "love" with a hooker. Not a single one. Every story ends with the monger learning a big lesson, or a monger not able to handle the hooker's job, or on rare occasions the hooker becoming too clingy, or whatever. This just does not exist.

Go to a dating site and you will have a 5 percent, 10 percent, or 20 percent chance of finding the woman you end up settling down with and growing old with. Take the AMP route as a john and your success rate will be 0. 0 percent.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=SureYourRight;3504800]Is this girl still working at 939? Experience has taught me that "I'll never date a guy that comes to the club. " is usually I'll never date another guy that comes to the club".[/QUOTE]"I'll never date another guy that comes in this club or AMP, unless he has mad stacks and takes me shopping. ".

[QUOTE=ClintonPortis;3503458]
Go to a dating site and you will have a 5 percent, 10 percent, or 20 percent chance of finding the woman you end up settling down with and growing old with. Take the AMP route as a john and your success rate will be 0. 0 percent.[/QUOTE]I used to be the GM for a high end retailer and I hired a busty Asian girl to the operation. I hired her because she could speak Japanese very well and she could sell to the male clientele. Immediately, there were rumors among the other girls that she used to be a stripper and that sort of thing. She performed, so I didn't care (and I've never really been that attracted to Asian women).

She flirted with me, but I treated her like everyone else. Again, not into Asians, so I didn't bite. She got attention from the other guys, but not me. So she kept trying harder.

Ultimately, we talked and she opened up to me because, I think, that was one more level of flirting. She confirmed she was a stripper so I picked her brain about the life. She said she saw men as ATMs. If you didn't have cash, she wasn't interested. She said a good stripper knew how be the girl the guy she was dancing for wanted, how much money he actually had and how to keep the guy coming back. As someone in their mid-20's, this was quite the revelation to me.

She had a fiancé twice her age. She admitted that his money (lots of it) was the reason why was engaged and wasn't stripping.

Once I understood this, my understanding of women in the sex industry fell into place.

[QUOTE=LightBringer;3504884]
As for why I seek absolution among fallen angels, I have my reasons. I have a karmic debt to repay. I will find at least one person who is looking to escape. I will extend my hand and they will either understand what this gesture means, or they will not. If they take my hand, I will pull them out whatever prison they find themselves locked in.[/QUOTE]This is so funny. Perhaps you have already bailed her out of jail and offered to pay her legal fees?

What a douchetool. Why be an asshole? Yeah, maybe we are all assholes for being in here the first place, but you are an especially boring kind of unnecessary asshole.

[QUOTE=Satyr808;3505535]This is so funny. Perhaps you have already bailed her out of jail and offered to pay her legal fees?[/QUOTE]

[blue]Douchetool, I kinda like that.

A2[/blue]