"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=John G Smith; 1690278]This is a patient man's game. Most SBs are straddling the line between normal society and the amoral netherworld. If you bark too loud in many cases you'll scare them back to normal society. Speak too softly and they'll roll you with GPS. It's about striking that right balance, not just with your money but how you approach them and your attitude. Unlike with escorts, SBs can and will say "No'. Part of the fun of this pursuit is that since the girls can say "no", it's more rewarding when you actually get them to say "yes". And getting to the point where you're banging a 20 HYC in the FC takes a lot of "Yes"s.

"Yes" for the initial contact.

"Yes" on exchanging pictures and email.

"Yes" that she liked your picture (or found it acceptable)

"Yes" on exchanging phone numbers.

"Yes" to basic arrangement details.

"Yes" on a M&G.

"Yes" on the financials details of the arrangement

"Yes" on intimacy details of the arrangement.

"Yes" on scheduling on a time / date for the FC.

"Yes" on actually showing up to the FC on the day of

All those are pretty much the minimum amount of "yes" hurdles required to bag a SB. A breakdown in anywhere in that chain of "Yes"s can pretty much bring the whole thing down and have the entire thing a wasted effort. If you want a quick and an easy lay, go with escorts. With escorts, they just have one "Yes" hurdle. As long as you give them their required "donation", they'll bang you sight unseen until you show up at the hotel door.

Now once you get things going with a good SB, it can be one of the best things in the world. But it's a lot of work and you pretty much have to enjoy (or at least tolerate) the pursuit because it can feel unending at times. And there's some very real risks involved. I've seen guys who successfully mongered in the escort / AMP world for 10-20 years, get taken down in the sugar bowl after 6. 18 months because of a psycho, identity exposure, emotional involvement, or STD.[/QUOTE]JG,

This is one of the more well-said descriptions of the path to success, and very real pitfalls, in the Sugar Bowl, and the essential difference between escorts and babies. Even if an SB said "yes" to you, it does not mean she automatically will say "yes" to me, regardless of the amount of sugar offered. There's no such thing as a sure thing in the Bowl.

Scott

[QUOTE=Revvo; 1690047]Just to add to what Scott said. It be hooves you to take your time with this. Look carefully at what these experts have to say. Because this is a lot more than just the poontang and the cost. There is quite a bit of risk involved also.

Step carefully[/QUOTE]Thanks! No major risk on my part though because I'm not in a relationship at the moment and am pretty good about making sure my accounts payable always has a higher balance than my receivables.

Have you guys gone over live-in relationships? If so I'll try and hunt the info down in this thread; don't really have time to read the whole Vol 1. 30 at the moment though.

[QUOTE=John G Smith;1688881]It does make things cumbersome sometimes and trying to explain why your phone can't accept pictures. But on the other hand if you're using a burner phone, i.[/QUOTE]Explanation simple.

" Yes I know it is a hassle for you to email me your pics, but I turned of pictures because I travel abroad frequently. As you know ATT (etc) charges and arm and a leg for data and mms if I am in Europe / Asia / so I got home to a big surprise. A BIG FAT bill. So I learned my lesson and just turned it of totally. Mmm if you have a passport eventually I can take you to. London. Rome. Paris. Rio if you want to throw it is as a 'bone' "

That works as a charm.

[QUOTE=F Scott; 1690340]JG,

This is one of the more well-said descriptions of the path to success, and very real pitfalls, in the Sugar Bowl, and the essential difference between escorts and babies. Even if an SB said "yes" to you, it does not mean she automatically will say "yes" to me, regardless of the amount of sugar offered. There's no such thing as a sure thing in the Bowl.

Scott[/QUOTE]Damn Scott! There is a challenger to the most eloquent poster on this thread! One of the best posts ever John! I would also add that even though you get through all those "yeses" one or multiple times, it doesn't mean you are going to get a yes from the same Baby every time. Evidently that thing they have that we desire so much, also makes them a fickle creature.

Darn, I guess that's the disadvantage of getting a huge discount using "sugar" instead of paying per hour.

How many girls are you having to exchange messages with before you get a yes?

[QUOTE=Wnde8;1689336]Hey guys, what's the going rate on that site for a few hours a night with a hot girl. 8/10 range?[/QUOTE]The best advice that I ever received from a Brother in the forum was: 'Remember that all of these women are fucking for money! '

That being said, there is no real difference between a escort and a sugar baby. Except for in the mind of those willing to engage in the worst form of deception: self deception. So, go down through the list of questions. And you receive a yes answer to them. In the end you pay them money. Bottom line. End of story. Period. When they leave with your splooge dripping from all three holes, no matter how eloquent you rap has been; or how well you have rocked their world (or faked it without your knowledge). They leave the encounter with money. They have just fucked for money. Straight up garden tool!

Sugar Babies are just garden tools with a different marketing plan. And the gauntlet we must all run in the sugar game is simply a method that allows them to choose who they wish to fuck. It does not change the fact that they are fucking for money! Play the game! Love the pussy! Do not love the garden tools.

Everyone here has different methods that work for them. They all work because the garden tools are all different. And we are ALL fucking! Find the methods that work for you. My advice Mr. Wnde8 is to RTFF! Put some mother fucking work in! Learn your market. Decide where you wish to enter and begin the negotiations with the garden tools in your area or beyond post haste. There is no substitute for playing the game.

Go balls deep; Go HAM and prosper,

SubCmdr Out!

What techniques tools, and strategies have you guys employed to reduce the flake factor. One thing I do is to avoid the real young ones who are just entering the bowl.

They appear to be the most flakiest of all flakes. Also there appears to be a phase that many of them go through where they have entered the bowl and the discussions but have not actually fucked for money yet. These almost certainly will get cold feet and flake a time or two before they go back and go through with it.

Also look for someone who has some responsibility already. Real job, really going to college etc.

I have also found that the same baby can be a flake now but in the future may not be a flake. So follow up don't burn bridges and above all be patient. I have learned much about patience from this game.

What do you guys do?

Revvo

Just the illusion is given it is different.

Emailed with a new one on SA. She wanted to take it to Y messenger.

The Yesses are being worked one by one. Yes she wants to know exactly what I will do for her.

And right between a message I get this one.

"got your other email. I can't just drive up and stay the night. Would like to get to know you a little before that."

Now I not emailed her about her driving up, since she is close, and staying the night. So she is talking to me and atleast another.

See Hernando. It is all an illusion, a real life game to make our toes curl the best way.

"never give up Never surrender"

[QUOTE=SubCmdr; 1691546]The best advice that I ever received from a Brother in the forum was: 'Remember that all of these women are fucking for money! '

That being said, there is no real difference between a escort and a sugar baby. Except for in the mind of those willing to engage in the worst form of deception: self deception.

Sub Cmdr.

I agree with your basic premise. I think there is a nuance that you may not have considered that does create a small difference, which is founded upon your second sentence above. I think you were referring to the self deception of the SD; I refer to the self deception of the SB. Yes, they are fucking for money. However, I don't think the real SB has quite accepted that in the way that an escort does. An escort (in most cases) is really about production: get you in, drain you (of money, certainly; of semen, if she must). A true sugarbaby wants to respect herself and believe that she is a companion and that the money is secondary. A minor difference, true, but to bolster that belief I think some are willing to make themselves more accessible in terms of time, intimacy beyond physical, and emotion. I think that can create a better experience for the SD, and thus make it worth the extra effort or cost that may go along with it. I welcome the thoughts of others on the forum on my perception.

I've been out of the SA world for a while. Content with my 2 current AA HCBs that have been taking more of my time than I really had available to give. Decided to jump back in about month ago due to a little bit boredom and a little bit curiosity if the grass was really greener. Some of you guys on this forum really make it hard to stay satisfied with the status quo, with all of your great stories and all.

Anyway, been playing the game with a few new pots. Nothing spectacular as of yet. One was definitely a Nando 1 that took me home with her after the first M&G this week. Limited oral action then marginal FS. Nothing really special. It was a quick in and out and I will not repeat Another 21 yr old HCB has scheduled 2 M&Gs with me so far and backed out of both of them at the very last minute. But still stays in touch via txt and still has my interest. Go figure. I should have learned my lesson by now.

The most recent Pot is a 9 out of 10 on the HCB scale and she just started to txt with me a few days ago. I was respectful and truthful about what I could pay per visit. Not at the top end with you big spenders, but not at the bottom with you bargain hunters either. She quickly scoffed at me offer with this reply:

"Awe ok but no that's not enough someone offered me 1000 each visit and I really need that so I can get me a car so sorry guess ill go with them :/"

So which of you bast*s is paying these GPS types that kind of money? I think even if I had it, I would still hesitate to spend that much even for the finest of "garden tools".

Oh well, at least I still have my 2 backup SBs still in rotation.

Keep up the fine posts. And let me know if 1000 is anywhere near any of your going rates.

[QUOTE=Dsprdo;1692019]I refer to the self deception of the SB. Yes, they are fucking for money. However, I don't think the real SB has quite accepted that in the way that an escort does. An escort (in most cases) is really about production: get you in, drain you (of money, certainly; of semen, if she must). A true sugarbaby wants to respect herself and believe that she is a companion and that the money is secondary. A minor difference, true, but to bolster that belief I think some are willing to make themselves more accessible in terms of time, intimacy beyond physical, and emotion. I think that can create a better experience for the SD, and thus make it worth the extra effort or cost that may go along with it. I welcome the thoughts of others on the forum on my perception.[/QUOTE]Mr. Dsprdo,

The key to success as a SD is not to treat the SB as a garden tool. I get that! But one must always remember that a Sugar Baby has a garden tool inside of her just waiting to get out. I would like to remind my fellow Brothers under deep cover not to forget they are playing a role. So, while there is temptation to feel real emotion, until you remove the money it is not real emotion just good business. That alone will help all current, new and future SD's avoid many of the pitfalls outlined in this forum.

Leave your splooge dipping from all of their holes gentlemen!

SubCmdr out!

[QUOTE=AliasSM; 1692170]The most recent Pot is a 9 out of 10 on the HCB scale and she just started to txt with me a few days ago. I was respectful and truthful about what I could pay per visit. Not at the top end with you big spenders, but not at the bottom with you bargain hunters either. She quickly scoffed at me offer with this reply:

"Awe ok but no that's not enough someone offered me 1000 each visit and I really need that so I can get me a car so sorry guess ill go with them :/"

So which of you bast*s is paying these GPS types that kind of money? I think even if I had it, I would still hesitate to spend that much even for the finest of "garden tools".

Oh well, at least I still have my 2 backup SBs still in rotation.

Keep up the fine posts. And let me know if 1000 is anywhere near any of your going rates.[/QUOTE]I doubt anyone is paying her that amount. Smells like a ploy to get you to make your max offer.

[QUOTE=Spitfire;1692389]I doubt anyone is paying her that amount. Smells like a ploy to get you to make your max offer.[/QUOTE]Yes my ATF gets regular $500/$1, 000 and more from sd's she has met. This also reflects what the comment SubCmdr referred to. It is a game! I can see her on a regular basis for a lot lot lot less. The ones she has gotten $500, $1, 000 and one time $3, 000 from don't interest her, there her garden tool nature comes out " I will 'do him' because my tuition is due". But since I have played a better role than these guys, she keeps telling me I am fun, interesting ext. So I play along thus reducing my cost per photon torpedo, and exposing her to unknown planets and cultures.

It all starts with how you approach her. And first contact is important, feel them out how the want to be assimilated with the great unit. And then adapt you discovery along that way.

Never give up Never surrender

[QUOTE=Spitfire;1692389]I doubt anyone is paying her that amount. Smells like a ploy to get you to make your max offer.[/QUOTE]Maybe. But I know one SB pretty well that have an out of town visitor come in and take her on a 500 shopping spree with no request to go to the FC. The crazies are out there.

She may be trying to negotiate, I agree, but either way I'm moving on. No patience for the GPS fever.

For the guys making mid 5 figure incomes-do you guys exaggerate the income you make or put the actual amount?