Dating Sites

[QUOTE=Grizzz;3872346]This one wants $800 per meet. Had to ask her if she was joking, but she said it's $800 per. The pandemic is spreading.

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/55db6084-7e69-5698-f71f-503b6a0cf908[/URL][/QUOTE]Flabby 30 year old with 3 kids, LOL that's the bottom of the barrel in the dating pool, let alone in P4 P. I'd do a $40 QV but that would be generous of me.

Just for the hell of it I sent Tiffany a message and was surprised her first response included her number to contact her. Says she has no time for the games on SA and gives out her number, and if a guy calls he calls, if he doesn't,no big deal. We exchanged a few texts / phone calls, and set up a meet my next day off. She called when she was on her way around dusk, and asked if she could spend the night because she doesn't like to drive after dark. I eagerly agreed because the rate was the same. I figured I was looking at an all night fuckfest, but boy was I in for a surprise. She showed up in a sundress and heels, looking pretty good, when she got in the house she wasn't shy about pulling up her dress to show me she had nothing on underneath, I was pretty excited at this point. We sat on the couch to talk and get acquainted and I swear she spent the next 3 hours talking nonstop, telling me her whole life story. By midnight she had ran out of steam and was falling asleep on my shoulder. I suggested we head for bed. She was out as soon as her head hit the pillow. Luckily she woke me up early in the morning wanting to play. She gave a lackluster performance, and then started talking again, I rolled over and went back to sleep. I woke up few hours later, rolled her over and went for another round, she just laid there. Sent her on her way after. Definitely won't repeat, too much aggravation for average at best skills.

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/42a17431-83d0-4602-aee9-059e6e9dc140[/URL]

[QUOTE=Grizzz;3879019]Just for the hell of it I sent Tiffany a message and was surprised her first response included her number to contact her. Says she has no time for the games on SA and gives out her number, and if a guy calls he calls, if he doesn't,no big deal. We exchanged a few texts / phone calls, and set up a meet my next day off. She called when she was on her way around dusk, and asked if she could spend the night because she doesn't like to drive after dark. I eagerly agreed because the rate was the same. I figured I was looking at an all night fuckfest, but boy was I in for a surprise. She showed up in a sundress and heels, looking pretty good, when she got in the house she wasn't shy about pulling up her dress to show me she had nothing on underneath, I was pretty excited at this point. We sat on the couch to talk and get acquainted and I swear she spent the next 3 hours talking nonstop, telling me her whole life story. By midnight she had ran out of steam and was falling asleep on my shoulder. I suggested we head for bed. She was out as soon as her head hit the pillow. Luckily she woke me up early in the morning wanting to play. She gave a lackluster performance, and then started talking again, I rolled over and went back to sleep. I woke up few hours later, rolled her over and went for another round, she just laid there. Sent her on her way after. Definitely won't repeat, too much aggravation for average at best skills.

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/42a17431-83d0-4602-aee9-059e6e9dc140[/URL][/QUOTE]Lmao at your post. Sounds like you got a girlfriend. Bahahaha definitely NOT what we want to pay for.

[QUOTE=IGiveVitaminD;3869480]Do you recommend her incall location?[/QUOTE]You Tha Man VitaminD thanks again! I didn't think I would get a chance to see her as soon as I did. Tall Cute girl, sweet personality. Easy going straight forward communication, I definitely will repeat when I'm back down that way!

I have gone back and forth on this thought several times now, so I thought I would just throw it out to the group with my thoughts on both sides. When I am considering a new SB on anyof the sugar sites, one of the first things I do is try to find a the FB or other social media page. I do this primarily to lessen the chance that I'm cheating with LEO, but also to lower the likelihood that I've selected either a pro or street walker. Not judging either, and I've been known to partake of both. Sugars are different though. Their appeal (for me at least) is they are more UTR, and most of the time it's not their profession. It's this difference that makes me (and I'm guessing most of us) willing to pay a little or a lot more than we would for a independent provider or street walker.

I have never seen anyone here offer to provide a link or name to search by in Facebook. I know it's not permitted in the forum, but I've never seen it offered in PM either. Like most seniors, I've given out many a number in my day (most with permission, but not all), but I haven't given FB out either.

So here's my Q: should we?

On one hand, we 're outing someone's personal info, and there's always that chance a senior may show up at someone's house (although highly unlikely) or reach out via FB and scare the bejezus out of a niave student or single mom.

On the other we are helping each other stay safe, avoid LEO, street walkers, addicts, and pros. All of which is at the core of why we use this board, and why it was so missed during its hiatus.

Like I said. I've gone back and forth on this, and can make super strong arguments for both sides. So what do you guys think? Something we should consider, or is it a really bad idea?

[QUOTE=DawgPound;3856556]Not sure if the link will work because I got instablocked as soon as I said $500 per meet was high for the Dayton market, LOL.

[URL]https://seekingarrangement.com/member/9a4bee20-969b-43f1-804f-c26821ffaf8c[/URL][/QUOTE]To my surprise, or rather shock, I got unblocked and a message from this one. The message said "I think we go off on the wrong foot and want to try again. " So, I indulged. After all, I have to get some enjoyment out of the monthly fee SA charges, LOL. We ultimately agreed to a meet and a more reasonable donation of $$. We'll see what happens Sunday.

[QUOTE=Shazaam41;3880859]I have gone back and forth on this thought several times now, so I thought I would just throw it out to the group with my thoughts on both sides. When I am considering a new SB on anyof the sugar sites, one of the first things I do is try to find a the FB or other social media page. I do this primarily to lessen the chance that I'm cheating with LEO, but also to lower the likelihood that I've selected either a pro or street walker. Not judging either, and I've been known to partake of both. Sugars are different though. Their appeal (for me at least) is they are more UTR, and most of the time it's not their profession. It's this difference that makes me (and I'm guessing most of us) willing to pay a little or a lot more than we would for a independent provider or street walker.

I have never seen anyone here offer to provide a link or name to search by in Facebook. I know it's not permitted in the forum, but I've never seen it offered in PM either. Like most seniors, I've given out many a number in my day (most with permission, but not all), but I haven't given FB out either.

So here's my Q: should we?

On one hand, we 're outing someone's personal info, and there's always that chance a senior may show up at someone's house (although highly unlikely) or reach out via FB and scare the bejezus out of a niave student or single mom.

On the other we are helping each other stay safe, avoid LEO, street walkers, addicts, and pros. All of which is at the core of why we use this board, and why it was so missed during its hiatus.

Like I said. I've gone back and forth on this, and can make super strong arguments for both sides. So what do you guys think? Something we should consider, or is it a really bad idea?[/QUOTE]My thoughts on the subject: it depends on the girl in question. If it's obvious she's a pro, SW, or GPS, by all means let the board know. That's where I draw the line. Just give the info needed. No need to post FB, Instagram, etc. links.

For me personally, I'll post about pros and GPS girls. The ones I hit it off with I will not post about until our time is done. I don't do this to be greedy. I do it to keep my "relationship" with them going. I learned this the hard way. I've posted here about 2 I met on SA and within 30 minutes I received text messages from each of them because someone decided to "white knight" me. Lesson learned.

She tried the same damn thing with me and I laughed at her uncontrollably. I think that she is realizing that her goal was unattainable and she was getting nowhere thinking that dayton, Ohio was Orange County, California.

[QUOTE=DawgPound;3880889]To my surprise, or rather shock, I got unblocked and a message from this one. The message said "I think we go off on the wrong foot and want to try again. " So, I indulged. After all, I have to get some enjoyment out of the monthly fee SA charges, LOL. We ultimately agreed to a meet and a more reasonable donation of $$. We'll see what happens Sunday.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Shazaam41;3880859]I have gone back and forth on this thought several times now, so I thought I would just throw it out to the group with my thoughts on both sides. When I am considering a new SB on any of the sugar sites, one of the first things I do is try to find a the FB or other social media page. I do this primarily to lessen the chance that I'm cheating with LEO. Something we should consider, or is it a really bad idea?[/QUOTE]Another reason to know as much as possible about a potential SB is that SeekingArrangement and similar sites are full of scammers and girls that frankly are not real. In the case where the SB's claim to be 18 or 19, social media posts often include things like when they graduated high school. I certainly don't want to approach anyone underage by mistake.

Finally, I personally like to know that the girl I am about to see has a normal life outside the hobby so I always want to see any social media that they post. In fact I am FB friends with number of former and current SB's and it served me well during the shutdown. I would never post any hobby related messages on their page though.

[QUOTE=Westy0311;3881685]She tried the same damn thing with me and I laughed at her uncontrollably. I think that she is realizing that her goal was unattainable and she was getting nowhere thinking that dayton, Ohio was Orange County, California.[/QUOTE]We met yesterday and I can say in person her personality was completely different in person and in a good way. Very sweet and engaging. Further details can be discussed by PM.

DP.

[QUOTE=Grizzz;3879019]Just for the hell of it I sent Tiffany a message and was surprised her first response included her number to contact her. Says she has no time for the games on SA and gives out her number, and if a guy calls he calls, if he doesn't,no big deal. We exchanged a few texts / phone calls, and set up a meet my next day off. She called when she was on her way around dusk, and asked if she could spend the night because she doesn't like to drive after dark. I eagerly agreed because the rate was the same. I figured I was looking at an all night fuckfest, but boy was I in for a surprise. She showed up in a sundress and heels, looking pretty good, when she got in the house she wasn't shy about pulling up her dress to show me she had nothing on underneath, I was pretty excited at this point. We sat on the couch to talk and get acquainted and I swear she spent the next 3 hours talking nonstop, telling me her whole life story. By midnight she had ran out of steam and was falling asleep on my shoulder. I suggested we head for bed. She was out as soon as her head hit the pillow. Luckily she woke me up early in the morning wanting to play. She gave a lackluster performance, and then started talking again, I rolled over and went back to sleep. I woke up few hours later, rolled her over and went for another round, she just laid there. Sent her on her way after. Definitely

won't repeat, too much aggravation for average at best skills.

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/42a17431-83d0-4602-aee9-059e6e9dc140[/URL][/QUOTE]But damn. She looks hot! LOL.

[QUOTE=LuvsGals;3886754]But damn. She looks hot! LOL.[/QUOTE]Did a meet and greet a few months ago at the Holy Grail in Cincinnati. I thought she looked quite a bit older than her pic and as already stated was non-stop talker, bitching and complaining about everything from parking to the weather. I never follow up, too much like a nagging wife. LOL.

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/7b2f6e13-43a8-4527-b8a7-66ee4fea03d6[/URL]

This one countered with $5. All inclusive she looks delicious but there are so many that will take a quarter of that donation am I being cheap?

[QUOTE=IcabodStud;3889569][URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/7b2f6e13-43a8-4527-b8a7-66ee4fea03d6[/URL]

This one countered with $5. All inclusive she looks delicious but there are so many that will take a quarter of that donation am I being cheap?[/QUOTE]No, you are not. I have had dates with gals much more younger and tight for less than $200 . Let's not inflate the market. Meat prices in this area can't go that high, this ain't NY or Atlanta.

[QUOTE=IcabodStud;3889569][URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/7b2f6e13-43a8-4527-b8a7-66ee4fea03d6[/URL]

This one countered with $5. All inclusive she looks delicious but there are so many that will take a quarter of that donation am I being cheap?[/QUOTE]I don't think you're being cheap by saying no to 5.

For me, what I'm willing to pay has a range up to 2. 5 max. And that all depends on the lady, what we plan on doing and how long. I have a few I regularly see where we go out to eat, go have some drinks and shoot pool or some other fun activity and then they will stay over night for 2 which includes MSOG and a morning romp.

Also, keep in mind many start off in the 4+ range when first joining the site. I just politely tell them that's more than I'm willing to allow and wish them good luck. Numerous times I've received messages from them within the next 2-3 weeks wanting to talk again. Usually about the time they realize the going rates for the Dayton market.

I'm surprised nobody has reviewed this one. She has been in the game for a while, so she is well trained. No BS and all good business. Yes, those jugs are natural. She got 2 Benjamin's during our date, main reason because she is up for kinks not many gals are up for and her pain tolerance is as high as her sex drive. So definitely your friend vitaminD recommend her:

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/786aba36-5f4f-4bf5-a42a-6dffa5ec27aa[/URL]

[QUOTE=DawgPound;3889673]I don't think you're being cheap by saying no to 5.

For me, what I'm willing to pay has a range up to 2. 5 max. And that all depends on the lady, what we plan on doing and how long. I have a few I regularly see where we go out to eat, go have some drinks and shoot pool or some other fun activity and then they will stay over night for 2 which includes MSOG and a morning romp.

Also, keep in mind many start off in the 4+ range when first joining the site. I just politely tell them that's more than I'm willing to allow and wish them good luck. Numerous times I've received messages from them within the next 2-3 weeks wanting to talk again. Usually about the time they realize the going rates for the Dayton market.[/QUOTE]I echo this sentiment. Once they realize the time value of money, they know that 2. 5 now is worth more than 4 that may never materialize.

And I've lived in Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, and 4 might be a bit high there too. At least in the ponds I was fishing in.

[QUOTE=IcabodStud;3889569][URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/7b2f6e13-43a8-4527-b8a7-66ee4fea03d6[/URL]
This one countered with $5. All inclusive she looks delicious but there are so many that will take a quarter of that donation am I being cheap?[/QUOTE]No you are not. Offer what you are comfortable with. She is definitely a hot MILF but not worth that in this market. You really should be discussing amounts in person and not online. Many of these girls are emboldened by the internet but not good negotiators in person. Don't be a creep and she will probably agree to much less.

Thanks for the insight we mongers must help each other keep prices reasonable.

[QUOTE=IcabodStud;3890650]Thanks for the insight we mongers must help each other keep prices reasonable.[/QUOTE]Just my 2 cents on market value. Everything is situation dependent, but none of these ladies deserve for us to break the bank. My range on SA is 1. 5 to 2. 5.

1. 5 usually is for a quicker visit. No pregame activities, just straight to dessert. Alot of times this ends up being a higher volume gal.

2-2. 5 usually if we have some pregame activities, go out for a little while, and return for dessert. Some are overnight stays.

Ultimately it depends on the lady and the activities and what you're comfortable donating. I've had some bring food to my place and cook for me, we have dessert, then go out, then back for more dessert and an overnight stay for 2. If a trip to the isles makes the agenda, sometimes I'll go 2. 5, but my common is 2.

[QUOTE=DawgPound;3890908]Just my 2 cents on market value. Everything is situation dependent, but none of these ladies deserve for us to break the bank. My range on SA is 1. 5 to 2. 5.

1. 5 usually is for a quicker visit. No pregame activities, just straight to dessert. Alot of times this ends up being a higher volume gal.

2-2. 5 usually if we have some pregame activities, go out for a little while, and return for dessert. Some are overnight stays.

Ultimately it depends on the lady and the activities and what you're comfortable donating. I've had some bring food to my place and cook for me, we have dessert, then go out, then back for more dessert and an overnight stay for 2. If a trip to the isles makes the agenda, sometimes I'll go 2. 5, but my common is 2.[/QUOTE]Sounds reasonable. I'm pretty much in the same ballpark.

[QUOTE=IGiveVitaminD;3889675]I'm surprised nobody has reviewed this one. She has been in the game for a while, so she is well trained. No BS and all good business. Yes, those jugs are natural. She got 2 Benjamin's during our date, main reason because she is up for kinks not many gals are up for and her pain tolerance is as high as her sex drive. So definitely your friend vitaminD recommend her:

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/786aba36-5f4f-4bf5-a42a-6dffa5ec27aa[/URL][/QUOTE]Seen her quite a few times myself. Great oral skills and that chest is awesome!

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/d9893728-af9f-5536-19ee-85295f42745f[/URL]

Met this one for dinner tonight skinny some acne scars talks a good game but after 30 minutes talking to her I lost the will and just wanted the night to end she has a never ending sob story and I lost count of the lies you guys might have better luck I'm not super aggressive no habit scars on her arms but she was wearing jeans.

[QUOTE=IcabodStud;3892927][URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/d9893728-af9f-5536-19ee-85295f42745f[/URL]

Met this one for dinner tonight skinny some acne scars talks a good game but after 30 minutes talking to her I lost the will and just wanted the night to end she has a never ending sob story and I lost count of the lies you guys might have better luck I'm not super aggressive no habit scars on her arms but she was wearing jeans.[/QUOTE]I talked with her last year. Initially she wanted 3 for a meeting. Told her too high. Then the "really need $$" stories started. She "negotiated" down to. 8 for a BJ. We never met, LOL.

Contacted Lacey since she was close to me. She quoted her gift, I declined, too much. Told her we could do a short visit to see how things go and we agreed on an amount. When I met her, she looks like her pics, short, thick not bbw, nice and tan, and a nice rack. We talked for a bit and headed up to her room. Glad I went for a short visit, as she didn't show much interest at all, so I took lead. Not very good at all. Had not planned on going back at all, but she texted me a week or so later wanting to know when I was coming back. Told her I hadn't planned on it, that our first visit kinda sucked, so she gives me the old story about the more she see's someone the more relaxed she would be. I gave her the benefit of doubt and went back, and it was the same shit. Won't be a 3rd. Don't think we clicked, she's a disinterested cold fish IMO.

[URL]https://www.seeking.com/member/29b3e973-42a2-4ef0-830d-27863c653060[/URL]

I'm thinking about paying for a SA membership. The price oftly high just to have the ability to communicate with some of these girls. Just curious if it is worth it? Are some of these girls true UTR's? Thanks in advance. Stay safe.

[QUOTE=BBace1;3893381]I'm thinking about paying for a SA membership. The price oftly high just to have the ability to communicate with some of these girls. Just curious if it is worth it? Are some of these girls true UTR's? Thanks in advance. Stay safe.[/QUOTE]It can be. But sorting through the nonsense can take a toll. As you might have read, a lot of the ladies have severe cases of GPS, and you have to remind them that this is Dayton Ohio, not a major city. Stick with it, and you might just find you a true gem utr. Main thing is to set you an amount you're will to spend, and don't go over it. Most of these ladies will negotiate with you. Good Luck!

[QUOTE=BBace1;3893381]I'm thinking about paying for a SA membership. The price oftly high just to have the ability to communicate with some of these girls. Just curious if it is worth it? Are some of these girls true UTR's? Thanks in advance. Stay safe.[/QUOTE]I reup my membership about once or twice a year. It's gone up from $60 a month to $90 a month since I've been on.

It's been worth it for me, as it's the only place where I'd be able to find girls in their early 20's interested in a 52 year old dude like me. I'm not hideous, but couldn't imagine having equal success going to bars frequented by this age demographic. I think it's worth a shot.

Make sure you notice that the site SA has gone to automatic renewal of membership. Previously it was monthly and you had to renew.

[QUOTE=Zeotch2;3893432]I reup my membership about once or twice a year. It's gone up from $60 a month to $90 a month since I've been on.

It's been worth it for me, as it's the only place where I'd be able to find girls in their early 20's interested in a 52 year old dude like me. I'm not hideous, but couldn't imagine having equal success going to bars frequented by this age demographic. I think it's worth a shot.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=BBace1;3893381]I'm thinking about paying for a SA membership. The price oftly high just to have the ability to communicate with some of these girls. Just curious if it is worth it? Are some of these girls true UTR's? Thanks in advance. Stay safe.[/QUOTE]SA takes a lot of time, money, and the girls have a very inflated self worth. To me, NO it is not worth it. Better value on USAAC, this forum (back channel), and even escort agencies. But of course, YMMV, it is after all YOUR time, YOUR money, and YOUR dick.

[QUOTE=HoBeau;3893572]SA takes a lot of time, money, and the girls have a very inflated self worth. To me, NO it is not worth it. Better value on USAAC, this forum (back channel), and even escort agencies. But of course, YMMV, it is after all YOUR time, YOUR money, and YOUR dick.[/QUOTE]You can find some diaminds in the rough on there. Ones not wanting a ton of money but most think theyre worth way more than they are. Also seems like a lot of young 18-23 years olds getting on there only wanting to sell pics and videos which is dumb.

Mongering is a crap shoot it's similar to the classifieds just more women some good some bad but I've had fun I met the Middletown red head there and she's amazing.

[QUOTE=BBace1;3893381]I'm thinking about paying for a SA membership. The price oftly high just to have the ability to communicate with some of these girls. Just curious if it is worth it? Are some of these girls true UTR's? Thanks in advance. Stay safe.[/QUOTE]It all depends on what your end goal is. If you just want quick BNG's, then hit the classifieds here. If for a little more money you want a nice gal, may be or not a UTR, that you can take out on a "date", bang you like crazy, possibly spend the night and wake up and bang in the morning, then it's definitely worth it. If you can talk even just a little, in a month's time you should have at least 5 numbers. Then go from there. For me, it was worth the money just for the safety factor. You'll have to wade through the pros, former BP ladies, con artists, scammers and time wasters, BUT you will find some diamonds in the rough.

[QUOTE=VSfun;3893488]Make sure you notice that the site SA has gone to automatic renewal of membership. Previously it was monthly and you had to renew.[/QUOTE]Mine doesn't auto-renew. You can turn off the auto renew feature.

[QUOTE=DawgPound;3894132]It all depends on what your end goal is. If you just want quick BNG's, then hit the classifieds here. If for a little more money you want a nice gal, may be or not a UTR, that you can take out on a "date", bang you like crazy, possibly spend the night and wake up and bang in the morning, then it's definitely worth it. If you can talk even just a little, in a month's time you should have at least 5 numbers. Then go from there. For me, it was worth the money just for the safety factor. You'll have to wade through the pros, former BP ladies, con artists, scammers and time wasters, BUT you will find some diamonds in the rough.

Mine doesn't auto-renew. You can turn off the auto renew feature.[/QUOTE]I have a nice stable to choice from, some really nice gems there if you put in the work.

[QUOTE=VSfun;3893488]Make sure you notice that the site SA has gone to automatic renewal of membership. Previously it was monthly and you had to renew.[/QUOTE]Someone else mentioned auto renew. Thanks for the heads up. I don't want any payments to automatically renew except my car insurance.

I appreciate the feedback I'll probably pull the trigger next time I have an abundance of discretionary funds.

[QUOTE=RegulatorD;3894143]I have a nice stable to choice from, some really nice gems there if you put in the work.[/QUOTE]SA is a goldmine. Even with some of the bullshit you have to wade through. Currently rotating through 4. One is drop dead gorgeous 21 yr old that asks for nothing. She was tired of dating douche bags and was really inexperienced in the bedroom. Boy have I had fun with that one. She was on SA for 3 days and then deleted her account because all of the crazy sick messages she was getting. I guess I have those messages to thank for pushing her my way LOL.

I've been on SA twice and only met two girls from it. Seems like a lot of it is full of bs, girls who want too much, and advertisers on the sites. Plus, unless you have a review, it's hard to tell how legit the girl might be. Plus it’s expensive, for whatever reason I can’t pay through PayPal using it, and if I use my card directly it gets flagged by the bank.

[QUOTE=FootMan2007;3897009]I've been on SA twice and only met two girls from it. Seems like a lot of it is full of bs, girls who want too much, and advertisers on the sites. Plus, unless you have a review, it's hard to tell how legit the girl might be. Plus its expensive, for whatever reason I cant pay through PayPal using it, and if I use my card directly it gets flagged by the bank.[/QUOTE]You used to be able to use prepaid Visa, MC, or Amex cards that you could get at Kroger (4 x fuel points too). Is that not the case anymore?

[QUOTE=LTL429;3895695]SA is a goldmine. Even with some of the bullshit you have to wade through. Currently rotating through 4. One is drop dead gorgeous 21 yr old that asks for nothing. She was tired of dating douche bags and was really inexperienced in the bedroom. Boy have I had fun with that one. She was on SA for 3 days and then deleted her account because all of the crazy sick messages she was getting. I guess I have those messages to thank for pushing her my way LOL.[/QUOTE]Yep. SA takes a lot of time and effort to dig through what's available, but if you're willing to put in the effort, it can pay off. Dayton is unfortunately relatively slim pickings compared to larger cities, but there _are_ some true gems on there. I've had a bunch of one-time encounters (mostly ones that I chose not to continue), and have also had some more extended ongoing arrangements. I've also been able to use SA when I travel on business to the west coast (to the extent of meeting a different girl almost every night on a typical 3-week trip).

The best resource available is the "Sugarbabies" thread over in the Richmond VA section of the forum. A few years ago I helped collect links to some of the best comments in a "Highlights" thread just below that.