"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2091665]At SD4 m they could care less. But I did get a foreign scammer thrown off of their once that had been on that site for about 4 years.[/QUOTE]You got that right. SD4 me doesn't give a crap what is happening on their site. Why should they care? They are scammers themselves. If you don't believe me, give them your credit card number and see what happens. This has been discussed previously on here.

On a side note. Two sugar babies off of SA have been arrested in NC for prostitution and robbery. I won't give out names so that I won't violate any of the rules on here, but their profile is "Peaches and Cream".

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2091665]At SD4 m they could care less. But I did get a foreign scammer thrown off of their once that had been on that site for about 4 years.[/QUOTE]Yeah, there's nothing to say any given site will act on the report, but who knows if more than one SD calls her out then maybe she will get booted. Remember these girls don't pay the site's bills, the guys do and if the person who reads the report has any financial interest in the sites profitability, then it should be a good move in the favor of the SD, even if he never sees direct results or gets the girl booted, there's always a chance she will think twice next time. Since they don't have to link their credit card, there's probably not much stopping them from re-joining the site under new e-mail anyway, but anything that sends the message to the girl may help her realize she won't get away with it unnoticed. If nothing else reporting her will make the victim feel like less of a chump about the situation and that's better than nothing too IMO.

[QUOTE=DirtyDingus;2091673]
On a side note. Two sugar babies off of SA have been arrested in NC for prostitution and robbery. I won't give out names so that I won't violate any of the rules on here, but their profile is "Peaches and Cream".[/QUOTE]Goes to show you have to be careful regardless of how you hobby. I'm just as cautious meeting off of SD4 M as I am with HX. Be careful everyone.

[QUOTE=DirtyDingus;2091673]
On a side note. Two sugar babies off of SA have been arrested in NC for prostitution and robbery. I won't give out names so that I won't violate any of the rules on here, but their profile is "Peaches and Cream".[/QUOTE]Finally someone gave me a good news. Looks like they deserved it ...more and more SBs who are doing this! Lessons for them for robbery.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2091259]My FB has rinsed me of $ I am 100 % on all advances over $ . After 1 month I am giving it up on her. I am cured of the delusion that these babies are honorable. If they are Nando 1 s and want advances then dollars to donuts they are looking to scam you. If you give them enough to walk, even short time, then they will. They can't help it. Then they are too ashamed to come back even if the door is open. Why they give up the future prospect of $s to score a short time $ I will never understand, but we don't think the same.tt
[/QUOTE]I agree that it is very close to flushing money, but I have to say that I have gone out on a limb twice and not been burned. A while back I advanced 300 for rent to a SB who I had agreed to $ per meet, and she saw me 3 more times before breaking it off because I wasn't "reliable" enough (huh? Second time was at the M&G with my current, longest running, and now married SB, who said she felt 500/ mo for twice a week was good; I immediately took her home to the FC and gave her the 5. That has been a golden investment. I have said no to other women on several other occasions when I felt like it wasn't going to end well. I like to think it is my superior perception of character, but I'm probably just another sucker who's going to get burned sooner or later!

[QUOTE=Dsprdo;2091922]I agree that it is very close to flushing money, but I have to say that I have gone out on a limb twice and not been burned. A while back I advanced 300 for rent to a SB who I had agreed to $ per meet, and she saw me 3 more times before breaking it off because I wasn't "reliable" enough (huh? Second time was at the M&G with my current, longest running, and now married SB, who said she felt 500/ mo for twice a week was good; I immediately took her home to the FC and gave her the 5. That has been a golden investment. I have said no to other women on several other occasions when I felt like it wasn't going to end well. I like to think it is my superior perception of character, but I'm probably just another sucker who's going to get burned sooner or later![/QUOTE]I think for purposes of this thread you're the exception rather than the rule. I have never advanced anyone money, but I imagine there's a difference between advancing someone money you've seen many times before versus someone you haven't banged yet, and I wasn't sure where your situation fits on that scale.

I will say this -- during my relatively sporadic SB career, I've learned one thing. SBs, unless they are just pros posing as SBs, can be so wildly different as individuals in terms of their expectations that it can be extremely challenging for someone like me to keep up with only one month a year to go twat-diving. I've met some that were clearly escorts using SD sites as a (as they perceive it) safer venue. I've met some that were clearly experimenting with the idea. I've met some that love the idea of travel and shopping sprees but if handing them cash will only anger them. I've met some that are victims of their own attractiveness -- they need to find a guy that's already married or taken, because anyone single will follow them around like a puppy dog and get on their nerves, but they have very little "need for financial help". Gauging which type they are is part of the challenge and part of what I find addictive.

So, while your experience varies from the norm here, I can understand how your experiences are so different from others. I find the same thing just jumping from city to city -- completely different attitudes sometimes in one geographic area, so much so that I have to adjust my own strategy in that particular area just to operate effectively.

But, I guess the bottom line is, if what you're doing is working for you then keep doing it. As a general guideline though, I'd say never advance money to someone you haven't already banged and don't know where she lives. If you're close enough with her to the point both of those are a yes, you've got an extra couple of feathers in your cap that move the odds of payback closer to your favor.

With my annual SB season I'm not looking to get that close to any of them. I should just change my name to 5-oclock Charlie (if you've ever seen MASH). I just cruise by and drop my payload then I'm gone until the next predictable time frame. :)

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2090811]What percentage do you guys civi date vs sugar date. For me its 100% sugar. I mean really, at 60 where am I going to hook-up with any kinky 18 to 22 year olds (or any age for that matter). And yes I have read some very interesting approaches to doing that. But they don't work for a old school desk jockey, new school internet geek like me.[/QUOTE]Last long term thing was about six years ago-dated lots of "age appropriate" women from match or from friends set-ups for a while with zero interest in any of them as a new SO. After a couple of years of celibacy, went down the escort road, not satisfying, then happened on SB's. There are ups and downs (like in RL dating), but overall the last year has been great. I recently met an age appropriate woman who was clearly interested, and attractive for her (our) age, but she can't compare with the heat from even a short term thing with the dancer I am trying to close. And there are so many others-100% SB for me.

[QUOTE=Dsprdo;2091939]Last long term thing was about six years ago-dated lots of "age appropriate" women from match or from friends set-ups for a while with zero interest in any of them as a new SO. After a couple of years of celibacy, went down the escort road, not satisfying, then happened on SB's. There are ups and downs (like in RL dating), but overall the last year has been great. I recently met an age appropriate woman who was clearly interested, and attractive for her (our) age, but she can't compare with the heat from even a short term thing with the dancer I am trying to close. And there are so many others-100% SB for me.[/QUOTE]Not only this, but even if you decide that "age appropriate" means ten or fifteen years less than you previously thought, the fact that you've been banging SBs will give you the edge in lowering the age range of your civies, if you decided to go that route. Women can detect confidence like a dog can detect an unwanted visitor. The more you give the impression (without saying it or trying to convey it) that you're doing them a favor by being with them, the more they will want you!

But your post made me realize I should probably clarify one point -- when I refer to civy dating on match, POF etc., I do not necessarily mean going after "age appropriate" (by societies definition) women. I have met and banged girls on these sites that are open to SDs, some of them even opening the upper age range on their "desired age range" to 70 or whatever. In other words they are still SBs, they are just operating in a different environment.

There are some girls out there that want to be an SB in a latent sort of way, that are TRUE SBs (as opposed to hookers that see SD sites as yet another venue to market themselves). But many of them won't join an SB site or put their pictures there in any way because of the stigma and the fact they have real lives (but they would on a normal dating site because there's no shame). I know everyone here is after the 18-22 crowd but I promise you there are some 26-28 year olds out there who are actually hotter and have the experience and enthusiasm to put the high school grads with stars in their eyes to shame. The problem is that it takes more work to find them, and unfortunately I don't have that kind of time anymore. If I were without a stable relationship, even if I were 75 years old I would be exploring the less traveled paths without question. Some real finds there.

That brings me to another point -- don't hesitate to invest the time to read the profile criteria for those who didn't upload a photo. They are the ones most likely to be newbies and/or non-pros. You can find some real treats. Hot photos uploaded to an SD site shows she's at a whole new level and she's already WAY more involved in this than she will ever admit.

Firstly, a huge thank you to all the greats of this forum for passing on such solid advice in the bowl. As a first timer, many of your stories and exploits helped me to avoid plenty of unnecessary blunders.

To get right into it, I was visiting Vegas for a week for work and decided to use SD4 ME to get some dates. My plan was to meet as many as possible in the first couple of days and hopefully, repeat the top 2 for the remainder of the trip.

So after sending out 500 over emails in a month and chatting to about 30, I narrowed my selection down to 6. With these 6, I laid out clear expectations as advised on this blog and was able to get all to agree to between $.5 to $ $.50 per date. (The $ depended on how attracted I was to each SB).

I scheduled 2 to meet on the day I landed and as expected, both flaked. I decided to use that money on the tables instead, and halfway through losing, one of the 2 texted and was suddenly able to meet in 20 minutes. I said sure, cut my losses and headed over to the bar to wait for her. While at the bar, these 2 young and very hot blondes (not older than 22) sidled up next to me and ordered tequila shots. They sounded a looked high (not sure from alcohol or...) I was waiting for my date, so made no move whatsoever, but the blonde next to me, would shoot me looks every now and then. I'm no hunk, so I know these girls are working me and I had a date coming so I just played it cool. 10 minutes later and my date still hasn't arrived and the blonde next to me starts chatting me up.

So I buy them shots and she starts with the small talk (from 'Frisco, works at the Spearmint Rhino, heading back home tomorrow etc), and now I'm thinking how much would these 2 cost me...about 10 minutes more, my date shows up (I know because she described what she was wearing). Now, the SB is not bad looking (single mum, early 20's, 5'5, about 120 lbs, brown hair, latin with a small belly). Cute, but next to these 2 blondes, she's a wallflower.

Decision time...do I honor the date with the SB or go into the unknown with these 2 super hot blonde strippers which are surely going to cost me more than $ $. In the end, the smaller head took control and I blew off my SB and invited these 2 strippers up to my room. No surprise ending here, it did not go well for me! In the lift, they started mauling me and taking off their tops (so this is what happens in Vegas!) By the time we got into my room, they were half naked and literally ripping my clothes off. They started going at each other while intermittently stuffing their titties in my face, stripper style.

And then of course, they told me how much it'd cost me.

A grand each.

I laughed and said I could never afford it and long story short, they told me to f* off and broke 2 pairs of my glasses on their way out (I had 5). I contemplated if I would have made a different decision knowing how it would end, but you know what...I'd still probably end up with 2 pairs of broken glasses. Hey, it's Vegas!

So if you're still reading at this point...I apologize if you found that first story irrelevant to this board, but I thought I should record my entire experience to share anyways. Take what you will from the story, but the moral is always the same. Man never makes good decisions with penis.

(Part 2 to follow shortly)..

So after my first night's adventures, I was scheduled to meet another 2 SBs on my second day in Vegas. One in the late afternoon and one for dinner. One was the missed date from last night (22 yo AA spinner, 5'3, 100 lbs, works as a stripper) and the second was a real POT. 19 yo latina (college student) who had only been on the site for a couple of days before I ensnared her. Needless to say, the AA spinner was a booty call and I was really looking forward to the my meet with the 19 yo latina.

The AA spinner did not flake this time and looked as good as her photos. Met at the bar, and she wanted to hang in the room immediately. Turns out she had been 86'ed from the property before, so it only confirmed my early suspicions that she was a WG or at best UTR. She's cute and funny, but very businessslike. We get down to business and she wants all the lights off! I manage to keep one light on but then she had all these rules...no kissing, no touching / eating of her pussy and capped right from the start! Sex was very mediocre and I even went soft for a while from the lack of chemistry. But like a horny old bastard, I soldiered on and busted one out in 10 minutes anyways. She was $ $ and needless to say, I did not repeat.

We finished up at about 730 pm and my next date was at 830 pm! The 19 yo latina was punctual and she even had to wait for 10 minutes. She was real sweet about it though and the difference between her and my date a few hours ago was night and day (in all senses of the word). This was a real SB in the making..young, sweet and very friendly. She had only been on the site for about 2 weeks and only closed one deal and I was her second. We had dinner and had a nice time talking and building chemistry. Being so young, she was quite taken by my experiences in life. I know that that's just the age difference and I certainly don't think I'm any wiser than I was when I was in my 20's, but I guess to a 19 yo, it's still more maturity than what she's used to. We make our way back to the room and she jumped on the bed and motioned me over...nothing was off limits for her (except anal)...and we were kissing up a storm. I went to town on her pussy and was also pleasantly surprised at her oral skills! When it was time for the action, she was tight as...I don't even...well, it was tight and we went at it for about 20 minutes before I unloaded my soldiers into their rubbery cage.

After more small talk, she got dressed and at no point raised the issue of sugar, but I'm clear what this is, so when we hugged to say goodbye, I slipped the agreed $ $ into her hand. All in all, 2 experiences hours apart, but were in fact worlds apart.

(There's a part 3! Stay tuned...).

On day 3, I had another date lined up, another 22 yo AA, was new to the site and wanted $ $ .50 for a date. During the exchanges, she came off kinda business like so she was low on my list of possible repeats. When we finally met though, she was a really funny girl and was just very cautious which I guess could come off as cold. She only had one previous encounter prior to meeting me and it was a rich dude who paid her 2.5 k for 2 nights! Wow, I got a deal here.

She had a very nice body, 5'7, Toned, be cups, very cute bubble butt (not those outrageous ones in rap videos). After a drink at the bar, we adjourned to my room and hung out talking about pretty much everything. The sex was ok, but I think it was my fault rather than hers, because I was quite drained from the previous night. She did put in a hella effort though so I guess I'd rate it a 7. Nothing amazing to be honest, but at that time, worth a repeat.

On day 4, yy other 2 POTs blew me off and I went back on the site and hunted down a 32 yo latina with a really beautiful face who had just registered on the site a day ago. All her photos were pretty much different angles of her very pretty face. She responded to my msg and we managed to set up a dinner date the next night. Prior to meeting she asked for more photos so I sent her one, and asked if she would send me some too. She agreed, and the one she sent me was not promising. It was one of those top down photos where you're not able to see her body...but even from that angle, I could see that she was chunky. Her face was so pretty though, that I made a mental note that if she wasn't a whale, I'd go ahead anyway.

Well, she showed up and she was 5'8 and at least 160 lbs. I'd never been with a girl over 110 lbs and it was always like a personal rule...But that face..oh my god. I figured, let's just see how many drinks it would get for me to ignore that body. She was a regular girl, sweet and friendly, liked to talk about herself mostly. So...a regular girl you'd meet in the civvy world. Bear in mind, up to till this stage no sugar has been mentioned. So we had a few drinks, proceeded for dinner and by this time I was quite into her. She showed a sensitive side and was really flirty in a nice subtle way, and slowly, all those extra lbs began to fade from my vision. Midway through our conversation, I even got hard when she made made some sexual innuendos involving putting things in her mouth! The previous 3 dates, at no point was I turned on until the clothes were shed, but this girl...she had my number..

So we go up to my room and once in there, wasted no time in getting our hands over each other. She'd make this little moans as we kissed and the oral was real nice slow and sensual, with those sexy little moans as well. Admittedly, I had to concentrate on looking at her face rather than her body, but I was hard as a rock throughout. I guess the difference here for me was that it felt that she was into me for real rather than the sugar. We ended going at it 3 times in the night and I was always rock hard as soon as she smiled at me. I hate to say it but we even did it BB the last 2 times. Not wise at all, but it was really in the heat of the moment, though I would never, ever recommend doing that to anybody other than your SO. In the morning, as she was getting ready to leave, I slipped a $ into her wallet (many wise men had mentioned, you're better off paying sooner rather than later) which she noticed later on (she texted me to say thanks) and this date had to be the highlight of my trip to vegas.

So...here's my report card. In Vegas for 5 days, met 4 girls and blew 6 loads. Total $ spent, $50. CPO = $.25.

Thanks for reading and I hope you gain something from having read it all.

A little off-topic, but I thought I'd pose a question to the group.

Generally I tell SBs and even Pots that I'm married. It just makes it easier to explain my schedule and she will understand the level of discretion I require from the outset.

The exception is when I see girls who are very close in my local area. Why do I see girls in my local area? Because while it raises risks in certain ways, it reduces risks in other ways because I don't have to sneak off for long trips, I'm able to do meetups on shorter notice, and I save money overall. And I live in a big enough metro area that even my local area has close to half a million people in a 20 mile radius. Having said that, I'm still very careful with information I disclose to the local girls. With local girls I usually keep my relationship status vague and everything is pretty much "Don't ask, don't tell" with my personal life. A girl who lives over a hour away is very unlikely to cause trouble or go snooping on a whim. Most of them are too lazy and broke to go through the effort. But if a girl is a local, she could get to snooping pretty easily if she gets bored one night without too much trouble. That's why I'm vague with them and usually tell them I live a few cities away even if I'm only a few blocks away.

Now the problem I have is my CL Teacher SB. We're starting to have a real connection, but I've never come out and told her that I'm married and have kids. She's never asked and I never told her. But I'm finding it hard to have certain conversations with her because I can't tell her about my weekend or I'm having to redact huge portions of my day when we're having simple conversations. Meanwhile she has been extremely open with me about herself and the people in her life. Of course I'm not going to tell her any direct personal identifying details, but I do have the urge to at least disclose the typical info I give to non-local SBs. We're coming up on almost 6 months of seeing each other and things have really picked up lately. It's not easy to find a LT ATF and I think I may have found one, so I'd like to open up at least just a little bit.

What does the clubhouse think? Should I tell her that I'm married and have kids? That way I could at least share with her some of the shit I go through and have more balanced conversations. Or should I keep her at the current local area restrictions and just maintain the status quo of vagueness?

So I text 22 year old latina spinner from yesterday to confirm our time tomorrow. She replies back immediately yes. Several minutes go by and she says "so I'm going to need 1000 cash. Is that reasonable for you.".

After dying from laughter, I reply "no. Sorry. It is not". She comes back with "what were you thinking?

I decide what the hell, I give her a list of what I've been paying. How the freak massage therapist will drive an hour to see me and fuck my brains out for 2 hours for this dollar amount, how another got $ a pop but we did it almost every day which is about 2000 a month, how another got 1 k a month no matter how many times we fucked and she always called me looking the the. So I ended it with "I'm a good looking guy, I'm a good fuck, and I will never hurt you unless you want me to".

I haven't heard back yet. Haha. She must have forgot that the cost of living is cheaper here in NC than NJ.

[QUOTE=JohnGSmith;2092112]A little off-topic, but I thought I'd pose a question to the group.

Generally I tell SBs and even Pots that I'm married. It just makes it easier to explain my schedule and she will understand the level of discretion I require from the outset.

What does the clubhouse think? Should I tell her that I'm married and have kids? That way I could at least share with her some of the shit I go through and have more balanced conversations. Or should I keep her at the current local area restrictions and just maintain the status quo of vagueness?[/QUOTE]Tell her. The only risk is if she sees you as an IRL potential BF. Otherwise I have found that these little vixens only care about your checkbook. Now I realize that we each can develop feelings for the other, but did you ever try taking the Sugar off the table? I have and POOOOOF! Gone with the wind. You will get even closer to each other undoing the secrecy veil. She can find you if she wants to anyway.

[QUOTE=JohnGSmith;2092112]A little off-topic, but I thought I'd pose a question to the group.

Generally I tell SBs and even Pots that I'm married. It just makes it easier to explain my schedule and she will understand the level of discretion I require from the outset.

The exception is when I see girls who are very close in my local area. Why do I see girls in my local area? Because while it raises risks in certain ways, it reduces risks in other ways because I don't have to sneak off for long trips, I'm able to do meetups on shorter notice, and I save money overall. And I live in a big enough metro area that even my local area has close to half a million people in a 20 mile radius. Having said that, I'm still very careful with information I disclose to the local girls. With local girls I usually keep my relationship status vague and everything is pretty much "Don't ask, don't tell" with my personal life. A girl who lives over a hour away is very unlikely to cause trouble or go snooping on a whim. Most of them are too lazy and broke to go through the effort. But if a girl is a local, she could get to snooping pretty easily if she gets bored one night without too much trouble. That's why I'm vague with them and usually tell them I live a few cities away even if I'm only a few blocks away.

Now the problem I have is my CL Teacher SB. We're starting to have a real connection, but I've never come out and told her that I'm married and have kids. She's never asked and I never told her. But I'm finding it hard to have certain conversations with her because I can't tell her about my weekend or I'm having to redact huge portions of my day when we're having simple conversations. Meanwhile she has been extremely open with me about herself and the people in her life. Of course I'm not going to tell her any direct personal identifying details, but I do have the urge to at least disclose the typical info I give to non-local SBs. We're coming up on almost 6 months of seeing each other and things have really picked up lately. It's not easy to find a LT ATF and I think I may have found one, so I'd like to open up at least just a little bit.

What does the clubhouse think? Should I tell her that I'm married and have kids? That way I could at least share with her some of the shit I go through and have more balanced conversations. Or should I keep her at the current local area restrictions and just maintain the status quo of vagueness?[/QUOTE]If she doesn't ask, then don't tell. She doesn't want to know. Why spoil the fantasy?

[QUOTE=JohnGSmith;2092112]
What does the clubhouse think? Should I tell her that I'm married and have kids? That way I could at least share with her some of the shit I go through and have more balanced conversations. Or should I keep her at the current local area restrictions and just maintain the status quo of vagueness?[/QUOTE]I'd keep the status quo except I'd try to minimize the real connection that's forming -- you're already getting the best she has to offer, connecting emotionally won't make the sex cheaper and only increases risk to your marriage and family. I personally wouldn't let myself get connected (I had one a couple of months ago that was a real risk for that and I had to send her away), but if she's getting connected in a one sided way I would do whatever I can to put some distance in between.

It's 100 degrees out today.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2092632]It's 100 degrees out today.[/QUOTE]I know you work hard for what you enjoy, but none the less, I must say 'you are one lucky guy'.

All the best, #4025.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2092632]It's 100 degrees out today.[/QUOTE]What a beauty.

I either need to go to the same SD school that you went, or pack up and move into your neighborhood. LOL.

[QUOTE=JohnGSmith;2092112]A little off-topic, but I thought I'd pose a question to the group.

Generally I tell SBs and even Pots that I'm married. It just makes it easier to explain my schedule and she will understand the level of discretion I require from the outset.[/QUOTE]I ALWAYS tell every new POT that I am a married man, with kids, and have a professional career. Then I tell them that I expect the utmost discretion from them. Majority of the time, it works very well. I am able to schedule FC actions on the first meet. I rarely do M&G in public places. I occasionally do M&G at a hotel in private, and we know where that leads.

Sometimes, and on very rare occasions, do I have a POT walk because of issues with morals and something about not wanting to break up a family. LOL.

But for the younger POTs, it sometimes work wonders. It turns them on even more. The thoughts of fooling around with a married man and getting fucked crazy by one would send them into overdrive.

[QUOTE=Smokarz_XO;2093096]What a beauty.

I either need to go to the same SD school that you went, or pack up and move into your neighborhood. LOL.[/QUOTE]I went to the SD school of hard knocks. No brothers. No forum. Just golddiggers, pros and some good luck as time went on. I may have an mba in sugar dating, but I paid for it. Also I have always focused my CL and SD ads more on sexual fantasy than wine and dine or big money talk. Started out doing that pre-sugar dating on the civi sites. But these girls are much prettier and younger. Although looking back the civi daters were all pretty dirty in the FC. Even bagged a pro for free for months just appealing to her need for some killer sex.

Thinking about it now, maybe I will try POF just to see what happens. Some things never change. I will report back if anything positive happens.

[QUOTE=Smokarz_XO;2093101]I ALWAYS tell every new POT that I am a married man, with kids, and have a professional career. Then I tell them that I expect the utmost discretion from them. Majority of the time, it works very well. I am able to schedule FC actions on the first meet. I rarely do M&G in public places. I occasionally do M&G at a hotel in private, and we know where that leads.

Sometimes, and on very rare occasions, do I have a POT walk because of issues with morals and something about not wanting to break up a family. LOL.

But for the younger POTs, it sometimes work wonders. It turns them on even more. The thoughts of fooling around with a married man and getting fucked crazy by one would send them into overdrive.[/QUOTE]This has been my exact experience. I often do M&G at a hotel. I've had a few Pots (usually Asian) get skittish with messing around with a married man, but the vast majority of college girls don't have a problem with it at all. I often hear from them, "I admire you that you work so hard for your family.", "It turns me on that you're such a great father", and etc. You got to also remember a lot of these girls have daddy issues...

But I hear some of you guys about the risk of emotional involvement. However with my CL Teacher SB, while I enjoy talking to her as well as fucking her hot body, I have no desire whatsoever to run away with her or any of that sort. Even if I wasn't married, I probably would just have a short-term civy relationship, but nothing really serious. She'd make a perfect Fuck Buddy or FWB who happens to be hot as hell. We can hang out and talk for hours, but we're not super lovey-dovy.

Actually another motive for telling her I'm married and have kids is to make sure to reaffirm the boundaries. I can't be her boyfriend, so I don't want her to start expecting that. I do want to be good friends and have our own special relationship but with realistic expectations. My main concern is that I could scare her off for "moral" reasons, although that seems unlikely since she's a pretty open-minded girl. The other concern is since she's local, am I prepared for her to find out my identity. I'm always careful, but I also assume any girl I see consistently for over 6 months, will likely figure out my identity with or without my knowledge one way or another.

I know I take a slightly different attitude than others here, but any girl I see consistently for more than 6 months has already been fully vetted by then. I know a lot of her personal info & background, I know if she's a psycho or not. So I'm actually okay if my long-term SB knows my real identity. By then there's usually enough mutually assured destruction that neither one of us will step too far out of line. And the best way to break up with a long-term SD is to gradually have money and time problems, so they breakup with you or just drift apart. This way there's no animosity and it'll be a relatively peaceful break.

I think the black ops cover is primary for the first 3-4 months. By then you should know if they're a Nando1, Psycho, or Clingy. None of these girls should ever have your real identity, so if you see them beyond 6 months, it should be infrequent booty calls at privacy friendly hotels in full black ops cover. But like I said, I assume if you see a girl at least 3 times a month for 6 months, she'll probably know who you are. In that time, you would have seen her 18-20 times, the chances you would have slipped up in your cover at least a couple of times is pretty high. That's why I tend to force retire most SBs after 4-5 months unless I feel they're stable enough to know my identity whether they figure it out or not. We sometimes over-estimate how strong our cover is. So I just go in with the built-in assumption that my cover expires after 6 months and I'm not fully protected at that point.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2093171]I went to the SD school of hard knocks. No brothers. No forum. Just golddiggers, pros and some good luck as time went on. I may have an mba in sugar dating, but I paid for it. Also I have always focused my CL and SD ads more on sexual fantasy than wine and dine or big money talk. Started out doing that pre-sugar dating on the civi sites. But these girls are much prettier and younger. Although looking back the civi daters were all pretty dirty in the FC. Even bagged a pro for free for months just appealing to her need for some killer sex.

Thinking about it now, maybe I will try POF just to see what happens. Some things never change. I will report back if anything positive happens.[/QUOTE]Your Wednesday girl is amazing. Well done my man.

As much as I wish I could say I offer girls killer sex, I'm afraid I can't. After over a decade of boring married sex followed by mechanical escort / AMP sex, my sex skills unfortunately are nothing remarkable. I do benefit from being in shape and having a good-sized schlong, but right now I could not make killer sex has a selling point. The sugar bowl especially last year has helped me some get back in my groove. But it's still highly chemistry dependent. With some girls I rock out strong and we have amazing sex. Other girls the chemistry isn't there and I might have performance issues, and in those situations aside from DATY I don't have enough tricks to fall back on to get her off.

Hoping over time, the Sugar Bowl will help me get back some real raw sexual experience. But the only downside to primarily dating 18-24 year-olds, is that they're isn't a ton of sexual experienced to be gained from them, LOL. It's the MILFs who are the ones who really know what to do but they often have little interest in me due to the closeness in age. Though I guess I could give civy dating a try for women my age, not sure if it's worth the hassle though and I'm really addicted to 18-24 year-old hard bodies right now. When you've had a steady diet of college girls it's really hard to find anything else appetizing.

[QUOTE=JohnGSmith;2093172]This has been my exact experience. I often do M&G at a hotel. I've had a few Pots (usually Asian) get skittish with messing around with a married man, but the vast majority of college girls don't have a problem with it at all. I often hear from them, "I admire you that you work so hard for your family.", "It turns me on that you're such a great father", and etc. You got to also remember a lot of these girls have daddy issues...
. We sometimes over-estimate how strong our cover is. So I just go in with the built-in assumption that my cover expires after 6 months and I'm not fully protected at that point.[/QUOTE]I reiterate the risk of your SO and the SB's SO and not just the SB. Most babies have a BF or husband, even if they say not. My SO blew my gig up and created a huge mess for me. I think a lot of former (now retired) Brothers ran afoul of this when discovered. The choice is a nasty divorce or put your head down and get the nose chain back in pace.

Also, the SB's BF. My recently flaked SB came over for her weekly fucking about 6 weeks ago. She was pretty severely beat up and to her credit she showed up and delivered. The poor thing was so sore I had to be gentle and rush through things to get my Nutt. She got hers too in spite of it. She claimed her roommate's BF did it to her but in retrospect I think she had a live-in BF she was stepping out on for a few extra bucks.(maybe a pimp?) Maybe I wasn't the only one. (you think LOL?) Right before she went dark she said that she was injured falling down the stairs. Riiiight! It was then clear to me that she is being abused and I wish her the best in getting out of that situation. Hopefully my "advance" helped her get away.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2092632]It's 100 degrees out today.[/QUOTE]Again you rock brother! You are the Microsoft of Sugaring.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2093171]I went to the SD school of hard knocks. No brothers. No forum. Just golddiggers, pros and some good luck as time went on. I may have an mba in sugar dating, but I paid for it. Also I have always focused my CL and SD ads more on sexual fantasy than wine and dine or big money talk. Started out doing that pre-sugar dating on the civi sites. But these girls are much prettier and younger. Although looking back the civi daters were all pretty dirty in the FC. Even bagged a pro for free for months just appealing to her need for some killer sex.

Thinking about it now, maybe I will try POF just to see what happens. Some things never change. I will report back if anything positive happens.[/QUOTE]Focusing ads on the sexual fantasy is actually a really good angle. It seems almost counter-intuitive that this would produce as many bites as it does, but from the girls perspective it actually helps her justify what she's doing somewhat (it's only playing around, it's not real, so no need for her to evaluate whether she should be doing it or not from the moral perspective).

There is an entirely different category of SB, though, that is less able to disassociate their real self with sexual play. Some of them are just genuinely attracted to moderate to high-income older guys and see the SD sites as a good place to find their next boyfriend.

For those lucky enough to live in a metro area of around 5 million or more, there's probably enough volume of both types to support bulk mailing them with either approach, and still getting enough bites to keep a person busy. Those like me have to span multiple cities just to even reach that many girls, and even then the collective volume doesn't produce the same results as big cities, because the entire vibe of sexual openness changes for the girl once you put her in a closer knit environment where she feels less anonymous, more noticed and less absorbed by the big city glamour. The other bad part about finding girls in other cities is that many of them see you're not close by and see it as too much trouble / waste of time. I try to help with that by explaining early in my contact mail that I can come to them no problem. It's also a lot of work to search multiple cities and juggle custom searches for each city.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2093319]Again you rock brother! You are the Microsoft of Sugaring.[/QUOTE]Check out christophe 1 on the L.A. Threads. Not so much a sugar guy. But if you read all his posts there is some very valuable info.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2093360]Focusing ads on the sexual fantasy is actually a really good angle. It seems almost counter-intuitive that this would produce as many bites as it does, but from the girls perspective it actually helps her justify what she's doing somewhat (it's only playing around, it's not real, so no need for her to evaluate whether she should be doing it or not from the moral perspective).

There is an entirely different category of SB, though, that is less able to disassociate their real self with sexual play. Some of them are just genuinely attracted to moderate to high-income older guys and see the SD sites as a good place to find their next boyfriend.

For those lucky enough to live in a metro area of around 5 million or more, there's probably enough volume of both types to support bulk mailing them with either approach, and still getting enough bites to keep a person busy. Those like me have to span multiple cities just to even reach that many girls, and even then the collective volume doesn't produce the same results as big cities, because the entire vibe of sexual openness changes for the girl once you put her in a closer knit environment where she feels less anonymous, more noticed and less absorbed by the big city glamour. The other bad part about finding girls in other cities is that many of them see you're not close by and see it as too much trouble / waste of time. I try to help with that by explaining early in my contact mail that I can come to them no problem. It's also a lot of work to search multiple cities and juggle custom searches for each city.[/QUOTE]The thing is, I just don't have time to waste. I have a few special needs in the sex dept and I am only interested in girls with similar needs. Those needs sometimes create a special bond that can turn into something more. And I like to start out on the same page. Of course there are girls that just don't think hooking up is a big deal. And they can also lead to one night stands. My super hot latina NP score from a few weeks ago. Long gone. I know her desire for a certain sex act is way too strong for her to ignore. She is probably just giving it away for free to some lucky young guy, now that I showed her how awesome it could be in general.

NP's are drawn to these fantasies and I love to be the first guy to give it to them. But if I only waited to be the first I could have some dry spells. So I continue to go from pro to NP and the many shades in between. Even after a year my ATF gets to experience something new on a regular basis as she was practically a virgin when i met her. Women are actually far kinkier than men in general and love a guy that can get them relaxed enough to let loose. This is why I love the $ date. At that price no girl is going to do anything kinky (or maybe even have vanilla sex) unless there is a physical attraction. I am sure I could get any girl to do anything for $$$. No real thrill in that. This is a generalization overall. Maybe an 80/20 rule.

Some of these may be voyeurism, older/younger, fetishes, rape fantasies, S/m, bondage, bi, and the list goes on. I always try to make this a part of any first date to stand out from the crowd. One reason I mostly date 18 to 22. At that age what they may lack in experience they more than make up for in curiosity. If they are older they may (and i repeat may) have already tried a lot of things. The upside is if they have and they are into it, then their skill level will be higher. The other upside is if you are hitting up older girls, they may already know if they like or dislike a certain scene and just pass you by if they don't. So no time wasted. And they would never do something they didn't like for $. At $$$ you will never know whether it was you or the cash they liked better.

More 80/20 on the $ rule. There is the chance they just dont know they can get paid more or they are just desperate for cash right now. But I am assuming the guys on this thread are looking for more than just cheap pussy and are hoping for an emotion connection even if it is only a fantasy while doing the deed.

So I hit the 22 year old Latina spinner with the blunt truth after she propositioned me with the 1 k needed for one visit. Some time goes by and I text her "I guess this means you are not interested" since she hadn't replied.

Two hours later she replies that she hasn't done this much and this isn't what she was used to getting, but she would see me the next day. Haha.

But, alas, it wasn't meant to be. Four hours later she texts me telling me she was a good girl and she was too pretty to be fucking random dudes for money and she didn't know why she came to see me. So I say ok.

This morning I text her and tell her I had a bad day at office yesterday and took some of my frustration out on her and I apologize for my language. She replies it's okay.

I check on SA and her account has been deleted. I text her that I really liked her and would still like to buy her lunch. Every thing would be innocent. No word yet.

I've been beating myself up. I shouldn't have hit her with the truth so much and so brutal. I should have worked her some.

[QUOTE=SkinJr;2093844]So I hit the 22 year old Latina spinner with the blunt truth after she propositioned me with the 1 k needed for one visit. Some time goes by and I text her "I guess this means you are not interested" since she hadn't replied.

Two hours later she replies that she hasn't done this much and this isn't what she was used to getting, but she would see me the next day. Haha.

But, alas, it wasn't meant to be. Four hours later she texts me telling me she was a good girl and she was too pretty to be fucking random dudes for money and she didn't know why she came to see me. So I say ok.

This morning I text her and tell her I had a bad day at office yesterday and took some of my frustration out on her and I apologize for my language. She replies it's okay.

I check on SA and her account has been deleted. I text her that I really liked her and would still like to buy her lunch. Every thing would be innocent. No word yet.

I've been beating myself up. I shouldn't have hit her with the truth so much and so brutal. I should have worked her some.[/QUOTE]She's already struggling with the "P" word. Telling her she is overpriced is telling her she is a cheap "P." It's much better to go dark.

[QUOTE=SkinJr;2093844]

I've been beating myself up. I shouldn't have hit her with the truth so much and so brutal. I should have worked her some.[/QUOTE]If she's deleted the account, then that means she's shut out any other guys from contacting her. If she's still replying back to your text then I think that's a good sign.

Smart move about offering the safe nsa lunch and if you pass the creep test then she may warm up to the idea again.

Depending on what's on your plate and who else is in the pipeline, it may be worth the learning experience to stretch this out a little longer.

I'm sure many others on this board would disagree, but if I was in your situation and I could get her to the lunch, I'd also throw in a $ into her hand / pocket / bag at the very end.

I'd avoid the topic of sugar, but let her tell her life story and I'm sure she'll share what led her to looking for a SD in the first place. Showing her how normal I am and how "generous" I can be may be enough to break the ice.

If not, it'd be a $+lunch learning experience and a story to tell.

This goes against the numbers game and moving on to the next, but sometimes it's fun to mix things up.

I had to pass on a chill utr girl today due to work. Now I am txting a couple real beauties that both live far away (which I hate) but my demographic is so tight that I only see about one new pot a day with a new profile within 60 miles of me. Knowing I would be lucky to score 1 a week for a date I have to break down a little and be willing to travel. One of the girls I met recently (the jamaican princess) is so sexy (a closet utr girl), but she claims to have a bf is is keeping it totally professional. Too bad because she really is sexy and interesting but not willing to step it up past a 1 hour session. And only within some somewhat restrictive time frames.

The only thing that would increase my chances is spending more, which I can't do. A brother on another thread pm-ed me about a hot little spinner which is awesome but she is a pro. I will see her, but I hate seeing girls I might actually like but can never really have.

Many a tear has to fall, But it's all in the game.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2094005]I had to pass on a chill utr girl today due to work. Now I am txting a couple real beauties that both live far away (which I hate) but my demographic is so tight that I only see about one new pot a day with a new profile within 60 miles of me. Knowing I would be lucky to score 1 a week for a date I have to break down a little and be willing to travel. One of the girls I met recently (the jamaican princess) is so sexy (a closet utr girl), but she claims to have a bf is is keeping it totally professional. Too bad because she really is sexy and interesting but not willing to step it up past a 1 hour session. And only within some somewhat restrictive time frames.

The only thing that would increase my chances is spending more, which I can't do. A brother on another thread pm-ed me about a hot little spinner which is awesome but she is a pro. I will see her, but I hate seeing girls I might actually like but can never really have.

Many a tear has to fall, But it's all in the game.[/QUOTE]Someone mentioned that things should pick up once school's out and I hope that's true. It does seem like there aren't as many new worthy profiles popping up everyday like there used to be.

I'm thinking that you're venturing out to the IE and Riverside now. Hope the drives are worth it for you.

[QUOTE=Dolato;2094017]Someone mentioned that things should pick up once school's out and I hope that's true. It does seem like there aren't as many new worthy profiles popping up everyday like there used to be.

I'm thinking that you're venturing out to the IE and Riverside now. Hope the drives are worth it for you.[/QUOTE]SB, highland, ontario. I had some bad experience with riverside, but yeah. Some of the best girls I had in the past were from there. And they drove to me. Just one good one is all I need. The train is .25 RT. If I ever have to move that's where I am going. Pussy Paradise out there for sure. It's pretty much unlimited at $. Obviously hollywood, the westside and southbay or even OC are always gonna be more. The SFV is sort of a joke, those girls have very little game. Also pasadena to asuza, SGV has girls. But most of the affordable girls in L.A. are south central, inglewood, hawthorne. Areas i have and do go to, but try to stay away from.

And thats just for the black and mixed girls, meaning they got some black in them. For latinas, anywhere near el monte, pomona or downey. And the only white girls locally at a $ are all addicted. Asians at a $ would be but ugly.

So all you guys traveling here take notes.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2094091]SB, highland, ontario. I had some bad experience with riverside, but yeah. Some of the best girls I had in the past were from there. And they drove to me. Just one good one is all I need. The train is .25 RT. If I ever have to move that's where I am going. Pussy Paradise out there for sure. It's pretty much unlimited at $. Obviously hollywood, the westside and southbay or even OC are always gonna be more. The SFV is sort of a joke, those girls have very little game. Also pasadena to asuza, SGV has girls. But most of the affordable girls in L.A. are south central, inglewood, hawthorne. Areas i have and do go to, but try to stay away from.

And thats just for the black and mixed girls, meaning they got some black in them. For latinas, anywhere near el monte, pomona or downey. And the only white girls locally at a $ are all addicted. Asians at a $ would be but ugly.

So all you guys traveling here take notes.[/QUOTE]I've never been into black girls and have always enjoyed the latinas. For them, I'd also add the Long Beach area and have had some decent experience with them in the Riverside area.

But you're definitely right about the white girls and the asians. Luckily there's no shortage of latinas here in socal.

[QUOTE=Dolato;2094156]I've never been into black girls and have always enjoyed the latinas. For them, I'd also add the Long Beach area and have had some decent experience with them in the Riverside area.

But you're definitely right about the white girls and the asians. Luckily there's no shortage of latinas here in socal.[/QUOTE]I have not really struck paydirt with the latinas. The white latinas I call them are just like white girls. And the really hot tanned ones I just can't seem to connect with. Not like I have never been with one, just never made a go of it. And I try. The mixed white and latina I had a date with a few weeks ago was in heaven during our time together. No one is faking 90 minutes of pleasure for a $. And bam, she is gone. I actually persued a really hot spinner a year or so ago. She said I was a man h o. I don't think I have what they are looking for. I am more hipster (jeans, tshirts and allstars) less debonaire type. No suits and wining and dining. So maybe that's it.

One thing I am beginning to and tonite had reinforced to me yet again. Is that endless txting and messaging is a waste of time. The girls that just say yes and are down to meet asap are the ones that always work out. The ones that question me to death or want to talk about I don't know what are a waste of time. My offer is crystal clear. All 3 girls on my A team were DTF on the first date. And we have been loyal to each other ever since. This shit is not rocket science.

I got so frustrated with this girl tonite I started cruising myredbook. Interesting site. Picked one out for the coming week if I can get the time. LOL

Its amazing to me that some girls would hang out with you for hours and even multiple days to get you to spend a $ if you allow it. But they could be up that $ in an hour, No muss no fuss.

I just got the "isn't that prostitution" question. I mean I really don't have time for this. This is why the sexual fantasy is so important, or just girls that dont put a lot of pressure on hooking up with a guy they are attracted to. Does anyone read whats supposedly going on on campus these days. Its headlines in my hometown paper.

The "hookup culture" is everywhere. No they are not hooking up with 60 year olds as a rule, I understand that. But in our world they do.

I re-upped on SA and sent out maybe 15 Emails to the top 15 girls on my demographic list. Got 10 emails in my box this AM. Now I'm like "oh shit " ! I'm going to pull a Hollywood and float the $ offer out there for an "intimate and exciting " experience. At my former offer of $$.5 it is a no brainer . I see 3 possibilities in the bunch and they are the 7/8 s sounding a little desperate with banging bods (always). The 8.5 + hotties are not going to go for the FC visit. I can't date in my area so I pretty much have to go straight to the FC. My letter will have to be good.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2094411]I re-upped on SA and sent out maybe 15 Emails to the top 15 girls on my demographic list. Got 10 emails in my box this AM. Now I'm like "oh shit " ! I'm going to pull a Hollywood and float the $ offer out there for an "intimate and exciting " experience. At my former offer of $$.5 it is a no brainer . I see 3 possibilities in the bunch and they are the 7/8 s sounding a little desperate with banging bods (always). The 8.5 + hotties are not going to go for the FC visit. I can't date in my area so I pretty much have to go straight to the FC. My letter will have to be good.[/QUOTE]FredMoore: Keep us posted. I had same experience.but after couple of email exchange...it became quite with 2-3 M&G for me...resulting in 1 success. Would love to know more about offer letters...how can we go straight to the court. May be it is final exam time...for SBs...don't know.! I have found a decent one after few M&Gs! Will post my experience soon.

So yesterday the 22 year old Latina spinner (with big tits) responded to my apology as I detailed previously. So I send her a message back and I decide to use some courting language. I tell that I did actually like her and I thought she was sweet and nice. And that I loved listening to her accent and would love to buy her lunch anytime and just talk.

The rest of the day goes by with no response. I wake up this morning and I've got a text from her from midnight last night. She says "sorry so late but you threw me off with those texts. But like you said you were upset from work I guess".

I text her this morning apologizing again and tell her I would like to be a friend no matter what, that I did like her. And I would like to buy her lunch one day. Waiting...

I do agree with a previous poster. I think her deleting her SA account is a good thing for me. I just got to keep working her if she will keep texting. We did actually hit it off and I'm a good looking guy with some southern charm. If she meets me for lunch or something, I'm trying to decide on what to give her. I kind of hate to give her cash and reinforce the P word. I'm thinking maybe a vanilla card with credits as a gift for school.

Any thoughts?

Also, I'm running into a problem. I can't get to all the girls I've been talking to and it seems like many are dropping me cause I can't show up. Kind of like they think I'm full of shit and I'm just wasting their time for photos and shit. Any advice on how to set the hook?

Skin.