"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

Hi Guys! With all the talk about pics and SBs I ran into a rarity this week. Generally I don't ask for picks before a M&G but always appreciate it if they offer them. I had one I was texting with recently who only sent me face pics. I could tell she was probably a little heavy, but I don't mind a little thickness if the price is right and she has a pretty face. We had the M&G set and I was just texting her details when she texts back "I'm a little nervous, I'm not exactly skinny and I'm afraid you won't like me". She attached a full length pic and she was waaay beyond what even I find acceptable for weight. I don't see how she could describe herself as "average" on SA, LOL I texted her back declining our M&G as diplomatically as possible. I told her I appreciated her honesty... And I really did.

Good Hunting,

Travelin.

[QUOTE=TravelinSD;2080289]Hi Guys! With all the talk about pics and SBs I ran into a rarity this week. Generally I don't ask for picks before a M&G but always appreciate it if they offer them. I had one I was texting with recently who only sent me face pics. I could tell she was probably a little heavy, but I don't mind a little thickness if the price is right and she has a pretty face. We had the M&G set and I was just texting her details when she texts back "I'm a little nervous, I'm not exactly skinny and I'm afraid you won't like me". She attached a full length pic and she was waaay beyond what even I find acceptable for weight. I don't see how she could describe herself as "average" on SA, LOL I texted her back declining our M&G as diplomatically as possible. I told her I appreciated her honesty... And I really did.

Good Hunting,

Travelin.[/QUOTE]SD4 M choices.

Slim. Most are, but if they are AA they might be more athletic.

Athletic. Could be in great shape up to thick but firm.

Average. Usually at least 20 lbs overweight.

Ample. Confusing because many girl relate this word to bust size not body size.

Cuddly. Always overweight.

Very cuddly. Grossly overweight.

Nationwide the average height and weight of the american woman is 5' 4" and 162 lbs. So at least 40 lbs overweight.

I would imagine the average height and weight of a viable SB is closer to.

5' 4' and 125 to 132 lbs. Even at 132 she would have to be an athlete not to be overweight.

I have a scale in my dining room that every girl has to step on, no exceptions.

A booty call girl I recently met was 5'8' and 135. Not a spinner, just average and tight. Saw her a few days ago, she says i gotta weigh myself. She was at 140 and so happy because she is trying to gain weight especially in her butt. Very common with a lot of girls watching too many music videos and thinking all guys want nikki minaj/ kim kardashian shaped girls. Remember when dating spinners to always comment on how perfect their body is (tell them over and over and over). Many have low self esteem due to so many haters telling them they are anorexic. My 5'4" and 105 MILF recently told me she wanted to go up to 120. I told her that would be a real turn off for me. In general society, spinners are out and big booty girls are in.

I have been a spinner lover since high school. Back then I was sometimes ashamed (and even stopped seeing girls) as I knew my friends were into big boobs and butts and i didnt want to hear their comments. After HS all that changed and I have never looked back. if you have a spinner never stop telling her how perfect she is because the pressure is on her to gain weight. I call it the Oprahfication of America. Once she made it OK to be fat, many women just gave up. Thank god I live in L.A. where thin is OK. But in the AA and Hispanic communities the pressure to be thick in all the right places is overwhelming.

[QUOTE=TravelinSD;2080289]Hi Guys! With all the talk about pics and SBs I ran into a rarity this week. Generally I don't ask for picks before a M&G but always appreciate it if they offer them. I had one I was texting with recently who only sent me face pics. I could tell she was probably a little heavy, but I don't mind a little thickness if the price is right and she has a pretty face. We had the M&G set and I was just texting her details when she texts back "I'm a little nervous, I'm not exactly skinny and I'm afraid you won't like me". She attached a full length pic and she was waaay beyond what even I find acceptable for weight. I don't see how she could describe herself as "average" on SA, LOL I texted her back declining our M&G as diplomatically as possible. I told her I appreciated her honesty... And I really did.

Good Hunting,

Travelin.[/QUOTE]I find MOST of the women on SA that describe themselves as "average", and don't provide a full body pic, are FAT. Plain and simple. Personally, I pass them by. They are either in denial or have no concept of what average is. Unless it's me. Perhaps "average" is now fat and I am just living in the past.....

Good thing you were able to bail out before the M&G. It's just too uncomfortable to sit there with a girl who you do not find attractive because she is bigger than you thought she would be. I had that happen 5 years ago. It was hard to tell her that I liked talking to her but I cannot get intimate with her. She didn't take it very well...

NEXT!

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2080350]SD4 M choices.

Slim. Most are, but if they are AA they might be more athletic.

Athletic. Could be in great shape up to thick but firm.

Average. Usually at least 20 lbs overweight.

Ample. Confusing because many girl relate this word to bust size not body size.

Cuddly. Always overweight.

Very cuddly. Grossly overweight.

Nationwide the average height and weight of the american woman is 5' 4" and 162 lbs. So at least 40 lbs overweight.

I would imagine the average height and weight of a viable SB is closer to.

5' 4' and 132 lbs. Even at 132 she would have to be an athlete not to be overweight.

I have a scale in my dining room that every girl has to step on, no exceptions.[/QUOTE]I like that. I'm going to get a small scale I can keep in the trunk of my car and take into the no tell. I'll let you guys know how that works out for me...

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2080350]In general society, spinners are out and big booty girls are in.
I have been a spinner lover since high school. Even then I was sometimes ashamed (and even stopped seeing girls) as I knew my friends were into big boobs and butts. After HS all that changed and I have never looked back. if you have a spinner never stop telling her how perfect she is.[/QUOTE]Whenever women say something to me like "they're trying to gain weight in their butt", I always think it's more or less to get a feel for whether I will still like them if they add a few trips to Taco Bell per week to their current diet. Now most of the black guys I know tend to like a lot more junk in the trunk than I do, but I always tell the girls if they want to know the overall attractiveness standard, take a look at the top-paid (or top-sought after) porn stars at any given time and try to imitate their shape and they can't go wrong. Typically the Riley Reid type draws a lot more clicks than Kim Kardashian types, but every dude has their own preferences so girls should target their weight depending on what they are looking for.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2080379]Whenever women say something to me like "they're trying to gain weight in their butt", I always think it's more or less to get a feel for whether I will still like them if they add a few trips to Taco Bell per week to their current diet. Now most of the black guys I know tend to like a lot more junk in the trunk than I do, but I always tell the girls if they want to know the overall attractiveness standard, take a look at the top-paid (or top-sought after) porn stars at any given time and try to imitate their shape and they can't go wrong. Typically the Riley Reid type draws a lot more clicks than Kim Kardashian types, but every dude has their own preferences so girls should target their weight depending on what they are looking for.[/QUOTE]Most true spinners are genetically predisposed to be what I call hard gainers. Forget the druggies. They are typically what's called skinny fat. No muscle tone at all. The truth is the only way to get a bigger butt (and not get bigger everywhere else) is to work out. Boobs are all fat. And all pro fitness models have fake boobs as their body fat % makes it impossible to have even normal sized boobs. Anyway, the point is. Praise your spinner daily as she is hearing 10 x more comments in the opposite direction.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2080393]Most true spinners are genetically predisposed to be what I call hard gainers. Forget the druggies. They are typically what's called skinny fat. No muscle tone at all. The truth is the only way to get a bigger butt (and not get bigger everywhere else) is to work out. Boobs are all fat. And all pro fitness models have fake boobs as their body fat % makes it impossible to have even normal sized boobs. Anyway, the point is. Praise your spinner daily as she is hearing 10 x more comments in the opposite direction.[/QUOTE]

See I like softness in a woman (up to a point of course). To me soft is feminine, hard is masculine. I don't want my lady to have veins bulging out of their neck and I feel sorry for those girls who feel empowered by reaching that level of fitness, because it might be attractive to some, but if some were the majority the porn industry would be flooded with female Lou Ferrignos and its not. When I see women like that I think they probably have a big schlong. I love spinners if they are fit, but the shorter they are, the more they need to be aware that even a few extra pounds can make a big difference. This is usually not a problem for the college age girl just trying to get by, but once they get a more comfortable lifestyle then look out if they are short. Oddly I find Asian girls to be an exception to this at times, since sometimes even the short ones seem to maintain their overall figure even to very mature age. Why the other races at same height tend to go full blown Ben & Jerrys syndrome is beyond me.

My first "official" SB (by that I mean we labeled each other as an SD / SB arrangement the night we met, but of course I'd "helped" girls before that and received help in exchange...) was a 20 year old dancer about 5'4", not really athletic by any means but slim and shapely, long legs and perfect ass. She'd already had a kid but did it young and had the height and overall genetic disposition to bounce back to the point where you'd never know (and I mean zero stretch marks or signs of elasticity). At her height and overall genetic shape she had a decent margin to gain or lose weight before anyone would notice. If a girl is 5'0" then an extra 4 lbs makes a big difference. That's hard for most of us guys to imagine. 4 lbs is probably the inbound weight of what I had for lunch and dinner combined, and I will work it all off before morning just squirming in bed thinking about sex and / or stressing about work. I would have to gain probably 20 lbs before someone close to me even noticed, and 40 lbs before coworkers started to ask me if I'm still working out or not.

4 lbs is a lot on a spinner, and 20 lbs is a hell of a lot on a woman of any size I'd be interested in fucking. My advice to them all is that less is more. Like I said I like softness, so I like a bit of cushion to grab onto and when I'm doggie styling I don't want for one second to feel like I'm gripping a lean muscular man-ass. But it seems easier to put weight on these girls than to force a fat chick to look good. At the end of it all, if they swallow enough of my load they will get a decent protein serving.

It really comes down to the girl, though. I've known a couple of waif-like frail girls that were really sexual and it was a turn on in an odd way. Honestly if it came down to anorexia vs. Obesity, I'd take the skinny chicks without hesitation.

Went on two meet and greets tonite. Remember I always make my offer of $ upfront and get confirmation prior to meeting anyone.

I was mad at my ATF so I looked for the prettiest BBW to just get a slam dunk HE or maybe a BJ and call it a night. I meet her at a coffee shop and within 5 minutes she tells me she is looking for an allowance. That was a fast date.

Called the next one. A super hot 19 year old. After I pick her up we talk in the car and she says she wants $$ for a quick fuck and covered and no BJ. She was so pretty I talked to her for 2 hours and then dropped her off.

So no money spent, got 2 girls off my list and went home.

Last week, partially due to my reading this thread, I joined SA and began the process of finding a SB. Perhaps a little background, 56, Divorced for a year this coming June. I live within a couple hours of Las Vegas and arranged my first M+G at the Mandalay Bay Resort. I had been texting with my first potential SB for the last 3 days and, being a coward, had not requested any definitive photo proving the SB actually looked like the photos she had sent me in addition to her profile photos.

Running a bit late because of Vegas traffic, I had called her to update my arrival time and asked her to suggest a restaurant at Mandalay Bay to meet at. Her response was to say " I don't really need to eat as I've got about 20 lbs to lose right now" Now, this SB is a UNLV student standing at 5'3". It didn't take an Einstein or my rapidly shrinking penis to visualize what 20 extra pounds on a girl her size would look like. What the hell, I was almost there and it was just lunch.

I entered through the rear parking structure and once entering the lobby I called her to make the final contact. As the phone was ringing I saw a short NFL Left-tackle in a dress and striped blouse on her phone. As I walked by the L-tackle I experienced that weird audio sensation where you hear a voice in your phone and from a secondary source at the same time. It was her. I had already made the mistake of describing what I was wearing to her and before I could run for my life I heard my name called out. My brain began a slow silent chant. You stupid fck. You stupid fck.

I was starving and we sat at a restaurant and ordered. The dialogue was friendly, and about as sexual as a conversation with your Mother or Sister can be. She wanted to discuss financials and her limits as to what she was willing to do. I, as politely as I could, told her that we were not a match and that we didn't need to worry about those details. That was pretty much the end of the lunch. Desert? Yes, she had ordered the biggest fcking chocolate something that I mistook for a mud bath when they wheeled it to the table.

It was my intention to start off my contribution to this forum with a cool story that would allow me to start my journey to becoming a Senior Member here. Through only my fault, it didn't work out that way. But this is my starting point and I hope over the next several weeks, months, and on to be able to post successes rather than failures. My name is Nitwit, glad to be here.

I'm fairly certain the 35 year old is a working girl just by the way she talks to me. I haven't been talking to her much anymore.

A new possible sb is a 19 year old from Minneapolis. She just moved here April 1st. She is not beautiful in a sexy way. She is kind of nerdy plain looking but looks okay and appears to have a slim / athletic body. And the body and attitude are my most important requirements. I get the vibe I could completely dominate her.

I'm just a little concerned about her. She is only 19 and moved here alone and doesn't work. So how is she surviving? Plus she is eager to meet. She sent me a personalized photo immediately, hasn't asked any questions about me, doesn't talk much and wants to meet asap. Hmmm.

One thing you might consider doing Rouleur is put something in your profile that the girl must be fit / take care of herself, etc. It helps prevent the overweight ones from contacting you, and even if you contact them by mistake it will make them think twice about trying to sidestep your physical preferences with "good personality" and outdated or incomplete photos, hoping you won't notice. On that particular date I would have bailed at any cost the moment she said "I need to lose 20 lbs" on the phone, but you'll get more successful with practice and I enjoyed the comedic value of your post.

One thing I always do when talking to a cute girl. Is even when I know nothing is going to happen, rather than just cut the meeting or conversation short, I talk as long as they will respond just to get in their head even if I am never going to get in their pants. From a convo this morning I had with a girl that rejected me I got an idea, posted it on CL and had a response in an hour.

Just like in any other forum, feedback is very useful for future situations.
Every loss just puts you one step closer to a win.

Yeah we're tricks. So what?. Anyway here's one you can use on SD4M . You send your intro letter. If they don't read it in 7 days delete the message from the sent box. The UTR's and pros will send an apologetic message and want to meet. The SB's probably aren't interested. Even better. They read it within 24 hours. If they don't respond within the next 24 hours delete the sent message. It's like a takeaway. Sometimes it works and they suddenly get right back to you. Everybody wants what they can't have. In this scenario 90% are SB/NP's because a pro or UTR doesn't have to think about it.

Today I sent a message. She reads it and nothing. I delete it a few hours later. She sees that and messages me back. "Sure! Let's try this". Meaning my guaranteed HE for a $. Stats. 40% of HE agreements go to BBFS. 30% go to BBBJ. 20% go to a HE. And 10% walk away at the M & G. For dudes that cover up, the numbers go even higher. And you can't argue with a demand for a cover. It's a legitimate request.

Unfortunately it was close to midnite when belle de jour responded to my takeaway so I'll have to do her tomorrow. It is possible to send an intro letter in the morning and be bangin by nite. Or even an hour later. A pro will always get right back to you with an overly positive response. A UTR may get back to you quickly but be less quick to set up a meet. A NP/SB can be anywhere on the map. I met my princess the first day she signed up. Did a 5 minute M & G that nite and then went straight to the FC. I was the only guy she met and then she had me delete her profile. We are still together a year later.

Not looking to start a discussion on whether to cover up or not. That issue has been mined to death on many threads.

One last comment. Always try to message a girl within 48 hours of her signing up.

I have noticed that there is very little posting on the weekend. Must be because you're all married or have a life. This one responded to a CL ad saying she never did anything like this before, but her cel is shut off. How am I supposed to get any work done thinking about that tight spinner body. I know it's not for everyone, but it drives me crazy.

[QUOTE=Rouleur;2081823]I live within a couple hours of Las Vegas[/QUOTE]I'd try setting up two or three of these per day over a couple of days, maybe take advantage of the low hotel rates during the week.

Lets see... A girl that said yes, now says no. She took away my take away. she was maybe a 7/7/?/? . So no big deal

Then the 19 year old hottie from the other night that spent two hours talking to me in the car and did nothing and didn't get paid. Messages me that she changed her mind and wants to see me today. If I picked her up and came back to my place it would be 2 hours total driving time. I don't think so. I was already there Friday and nothing. Now she is going to have to bus it over to me and then I,ll take her home afterward on some other day. I would be her first, so I am interested. 8/9/8/?

But earlier today a very normal girl with a normal job I had been casually messaging with, decided today was good for her. So I am going there, as she has her own place and is only 20 minutes away in a nice area. 7/7/9/? . Cant wait to find out how naughty she is.

The hottie from two posts below is now silent. Since she is only 10 minutes away I told her to think about just going on a M & G first before she makes up her mind as she said she has never done anything like this before.

Even with 3 girls on the A team I get a lot of down time. My roomy is with her new SD. My princess in on her period. And my MILF is a once or twice a month hookup and now I see her on the SD site everyday non stop for a month. She says she is just bored and looking. Right? And I am watching sports on 3 screens simultaneously because I never gamble.

Just my experience, but a lot of times the hotties are much more willing to jump in the sack than the average girls. Like what are they waiting for? Also I have been hitting up a lot of MILF's and nothing. I am getting the most hits by far in the 19 to 24 range. The super hot latina that I dated last week and is now out of town messaged a few times very casually. It's hard not to tell her how over the top enamored I am. I can only pray I will see her again soon. She knows or will know soon she is capable of getting paid a lot more than I,m offering. Girls in Hollywood learn fast.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2082986]I have noticed that there is very little posting on the weekend. Must be because you're all married or have a life.[/QUOTE]I've actually come off a bad week where very nearly every single M&G or date was cancelled, usually at close to the last minute. POTs that I've been texting with to try and set up M&Gs have gone silent. One girl that I did see for a first time FC date made several errors during our time together and I'm not planning on repeating. It's been a discouraging week for me all around. I wasn't going to post any of the awful details because I didn't feel any of it worth contributing, but here they are.

Now I'm going on week # 3 after fronting my FB a few $s. 1st weekend she was "injured " in a fall. 2nd "out of town" , this week is # 3 . I could've sworn she wasn't going to rabbit over such a small amount but shame on me. I'm not giving up yet but it isn't looking good.

The worst part is she was my only one. I don't have a backup and for the moment she was good enough. I've let my memberships lapse so I guess I have to re up and start prospecting again. CL and BP are heavily watched by LE in this community. Va is a secondary Bible Belt compared to Sodom and Gomorrah out West. So I guess I will go back to SA and SDFM.

Hollywood, that cutie from CL is rockin' I hope she works out for you.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2083103]Now I'm going on week # 3 after fronting my FB a few $s. 1st weekend she was "injured " in a fall. 2nd "out of town" , this week is # 3 . I could've sworn she wasn't going to rabbit over such a small amount but shame on me. I'm not giving up yet but it isn't looking good.

The worst part is she was my only one. I don't have a backup and for the moment she was good enough. I've let my memberships lapse so I guess I have to re up and start prospecting again. CL and BP are heavily watched by LE in this community. Va is a secondary Bible Belt compared to Sodom and Gomorrah out West. So I guess I will go back to SA and SDFM.

Hollywood, that cutie from CL is rockin' I hope she works out for you.[/QUOTE]Yeah, hope so too. But its a long shot. She must get hit on non stop, luckily she lives in a hipster part of L.A. Where people live 4 to a two bedroom apt. It must be hard in L.A. Seeing all that money and not having any.

Here is a UTR from CL that is txting me as we speak. 18 year old skater chick (pic 1). And I had a AA MILF HMU an hour ago that's right around the corner (pic 2). There is security in numbers, because 50% won't get past the first date, and another 47% won't get past date 2 to 10. Really looking for a keeper. That hot latina would be a keeper for sure (pic 3). It was love at first bite. She is all I think about, almost. LOL... but she is the one in 33 which is my ratio of dates to keepers over the last 3 or 4 years.

Also did a spinner message blast last nite. (pic 4) just responded. 18 and blond. I also include a pic of the 19 year old hottie from friday that wants to meet again (pic 5).

If a girl does get to date # 10. Thats when I make my final decision. If there is something I just can not live with I cut them loose. And there are plenty that cut me loose before that. When I was talking to the girl in pic 5 she wanted to know what was the minimum to get paid. I said hey, you can come over and leave after an hour for all I care. She was like "an hour of fucking?". These young girls are used to guys their own age that blow in minutes. So I told her, no problem. An hour total including all foreplay. LOL. Going on my date tonite with the girl next door to the girl next door. Its safe and real. Maybe not a repeater. But who cares.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2083202] She was like "an hour of fucking?". These young girls are used to guys their own age that blow in minutes. [/QUOTE]I have to admit-since I've been lucky enough to hit a few of these beautiful young things, at a time in my life when I thought that possibility was way in the past, I sometimes have trouble holding back, too!

I have been learning a lot and messing up a lot too. Thanks to some private messages to keep me on track!

I have settled on 3 SBs currently. 19 college AA - 3 dates always good to go and no $$ yet. I told her to let me know when she wanted something and I would get it for her. Her response. I am getting all I need from you... We shall see if that continues. 27 Rodeo SB. Lots of fun, not long term, she is holding a spot now though whenever I go through her part of GA - 100 per visit. 25 Atlanta baby- this one is the one I think about. Mixed race, beautiful, and doesn't know the word no. She may party a bit much, but she is tons of fun when we are together. First visit was 200. Thanks to a tip, I am now only covering her cell bill (55 a month). Shall see how long that lasts. She stays at least 4-6 hours or overnight. Two were met on WYP and one on SDT. Every sb that I have met from SDT has gone to the FC first meet. Hit them hard and fast on that site. WYP is a mixed bag. At 50% meets end up with FC or BJ so far. Still working on my game. But having a fun doing it.

-Some lessons learned. - I locked down my identity well from the SB's. However, forgot about email notifications for hotel reservations. Booked a local hotel and SO saw the confirmation email. Almost busted was able to explain it away. Had to cancel that FC visit though. Remember to lock down all SB play!

-Make up on my collar. I always request no or light perfume during a visit. This has never been an issue. Didn't think about makeup. Noticed it before I got home. Bought a tide clean stick? Took the make up off before getting home. Another close call. Tide stick is now kept in my car for future use.

I am thinking about changing my strategy now. I have been smashing everything that looked good without much attention to the other details. I am now going to be looking for unicorn SB's. Or replacements as needed for the three. All three send photos almost daily and tell me how much they want me to come see them. They all know they are competing with the other two for my extra time. Keeps there game up when we are together. Be safe guys and have fun!!

[QUOTE=Dsprdo;2083244]I have to admit-since I've been lucky enough to hit a few of these beautiful young things, at a time in my life when I thought that possibility was way in the past, I sometimes have trouble holding back, too![/QUOTE]Wait till you hit 60. When you here the word premature you"ll think someones talking about a baby.

[QUOTE=CaneBay;2083266]I have been learning a lot and messing up a lot too. Thanks to some private messages to keep me on track!

I have settled on 3 SBs currently. 19 college AA - 3 dates always good to go and no $$ yet. I told her to let me know when she wanted something and I would get it for her. Her response. I am getting all I need from you... We shall see if that continues. 27 Rodeo SB. Lots of fun, not long term, she is holding a spot now though whenever I go through her part of GA - 100 per visit. 25 Atlanta baby- this one is the one I think about. Mixed race, beautiful, and doesn't know the word no. She may party a bit much, but she is tons of fun when we are together. First visit was 200. Thanks to a tip, I am now only covering her cell bill (55 a month). Shall see how long that lasts. She stays at least 4-6 hours or overnight. Two were met on WYP and one on SDT. Every sb that I have met from SDT has gone to the FC first meet. Hit them hard and fast on that site. WYP is a mixed bag. At 50% meets end up with FC or BJ so far. Still working on my game. But having a fun doing it.

-Some lessons learned. - I locked down my identity well from the SB's. However, forgot about email notifications for hotel reservations. Booked a local hotel and SO saw the confirmation email. Almost busted was able to explain it away. Had to cancel that FC visit though. Remember to lock down all SB play!

-Make up on my collar. I always request no or light perfume during a visit. This has never been an issue. Didn't think about makeup. Noticed it before I got home. Bought a tide clean stick? Took the make up off before getting home. Another close call. Tide stick is now kept in my car for future use.

I am thinking about changing my strategy now. I have been smashing everything that looked good without much attention to the other details. I am now going to be looking for unicorn SB's. Or replacements as needed for the three. All three send photos almost daily and tell me how much they want me to come see them. They all know they are competing with the other two for my extra time. Keeps there game up when we are together. Be safe guys and have fun!![/QUOTE]I like this. The only thing I would say is even when I can pay less I pay the $ to ward off the competition. Because if a girl is truly hot hot, some guy is going to try and make a move. And in the back of their mind they know every time they see you it's kaching! (and bomb ass sex). Just a side note. Just got a reply from a girl who said my offer made her sound like a hooker. She's not a hooker, she's just a girl that trades sex for cash. LOL. Confusing times we live in.

Good idea Zman429. I also see the value of having a stack of dates in play at the same time. For me, my first time was a none-and-done.

[QUOTE=CaneBay;2083266]I have been learning a lot and messing up a lot too. Thanks to some private messages to keep me on track!

I have settled on 3 SBs currently. 19 college AA - 3 dates always good to go and no $$ yet. I told her to let me know when she wanted something and I would get it for her. Her response. I am getting all I need from you... We shall see if that continues. 27 Rodeo SB. Lots of fun, not long term, she is holding a spot now though whenever I go through her part of GA - 100 per visit. 25 Atlanta baby- this one is the one I think about. Mixed race, beautiful, and doesn't know the word no. She may party a bit much, but she is tons of fun when we are together. First visit was 200. Thanks to a tip, I am now only covering her cell bill (55 a month). Shall see how long that lasts. She stays at least 4-6 hours or overnight. Two were met on WYP and one on SDT. Every sb that I have met from SDT has gone to the FC first meet. Hit them hard and fast on that site. WYP is a mixed bag. At 50% meets end up with FC or BJ so far. Still working on my game. But having a fun doing it.


I am thinking about changing my strategy now. I have been smashing everything that looked good without much attention to the other details. I am now going to be looking for unicorn SB's. Or replacements as needed for the three. All three send photos almost daily and tell me how much they want me to come see them. They all know they are competing with the other two for my extra time. Keeps there game up when we are together. Be safe guys and have fun!![/QUOTE]I think you are in your 30's? It sounds like the SBs have an IRL attraction to you therefore your CPO is low. One problem with 60 + is that you have to pay more to attract a girl 40+ years younger. Enjoy it while you can. If I was attracted to the over 35 crowd I would do a lot better, but I am not.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2083569]I think you are in your 30's? It sounds like the SBs have an IRL attraction to you therefore your CPO is low. One problem with 60 + is that you have to pay more to attract a girl 40+ years younger. Enjoy it while you can. If I was attracted to the over 35 crowd I would do a lot better, but I am not.[/QUOTE]I'm in the mid-40's range, but pass for early 30's, and I would say that almost all of my experiences have been definitely been enhanced by IRL chemistry in terms of what I've gotten and how much I've paid. However, I will also say that ever since my teens I've been telling myself I better hoard all the pussy I can because it's only going to get harder as I get older, and over the last 30 years I've actually found the exact opposite to be true.

The other interesting and beneficial aspect I've found is that youth, in and of itself, becomes more attractive to me, so that I have a wider "range" of beauty definition in the 18-25 age range. By that I mean when I was 20, if I saw a chick that was also 20 that wasn't absolutely perfect, I would not have bothered, I only went after the top 10% of stunners (according to my own sense of beauty of course) back then. But these days, you can show me a 20 year old that may be plain / too girl-next-door looking to a 20 year old guy, but as long as she isn't chubby and has no glaringly unattractive features, I can usually start to envision myself fucking their face at a minimum. They don't need great tits, perfect ass, or a model face, or to fit my preferred criteria for hair color and style etc... Just youth and a slim body will warrant a second look from me these days, and I expect my definition of youth will scale upward as I get older, as it has thus far. Perhaps there's a ceiling there of mid 30's? I'm still interested in banging the super hot cougar type but I typically do not seek them out on SD websites (but I would on civy dating sites). Some of the mid 30's chicks have a great sex drive still and are less of a PITA.

The other nice thing about getting older is that I find I lose my interest / desire in actually hanging out with most 18-25 year olds outside of the bedroom. So, while I might have to pay more to attract them when I get older, they will be easier to get rid of after sex. Part of the downside of them being attracted to me is that sometimes getting them to leave me alone after I'm done isn't easy as I'd like it to be. I'm the type that doesn't like to be alone, but the company has to be worthwhile before I'm interested in conversation the morning after, and I don't really find that much in the SB scene so I'd rather wham bam thank you mam.

So with my new hushed account things are progressing quickly. I will detail another time the one absolute smoke and one hard 9 I am talking to. But right now is something more pressing.

22 year old message therapist that I hammered last week is wanting to meet bad. But that's not the problem. I'm trying to schedule something soon and we are texting possibilities and she is talking nasty to me. Really nasty. And telling me how she hasn't been f'ed for that long in forever. We are talking about hotel rooms and she starts asking me to stay the night. Then asks again. Then says we really need to spend the night together. Asks a fourth time.

I'm in a relationship and told her about it up front. I reminded her after the first question that I had to get home but she kept asking me to stay.

I gave her a fake name, fake job, fake number, non traceable email, and all she has seen is a non descript company car.

Any advice? But of course I'm going to fc her tomorrow.

If she is that damn horny, pass her off to few more of us to keep her warm for you when you can't stay, LOL.

[QUOTE=SkinJr;2083955]So with my new hushed account things are progressing quickly. I will detail another time the one absolute smoke and one hard 9 I am talking to. But right now is something more pressing.

22 year old message therapist that I hammered last week is wanting to meet bad. But that's not the problem. I'm trying to schedule something soon and we are texting possibilities and she is talking nasty to me. Really nasty. And telling me how she hasn't been f'ed for that long in forever. We are talking about hotel rooms and she starts asking me to stay the night. Then asks again. Then says we really need to spend the night together. Asks a fourth time.

I'm in a relationship and told her about it up front. I reminded her after the first question that I had to get home but she kept asking me to stay.

I gave her a fake name, fake job, fake number, non traceable email, and all she has seen is a non descript company car.

Any advice? But of course I'm going to fc her tomorrow.[/QUOTE].

[QUOTE=SkinJr;2083955]So with my new hushed account things are progressing quickly. I will detail another time the one absolute smoke and one hard 9 I am talking to. But right now is something more pressing.

22 year old message therapist that I hammered last week is wanting to meet bad. But that's not the problem. I'm trying to schedule something soon and we are texting possibilities and she is talking nasty to me. Really nasty. And telling me how she hasn't been f'ed for that long in forever. We are talking about hotel rooms and she starts asking me to stay the night. Then asks again. Then says we really need to spend the night together. Asks a fourth time.

I'm in a relationship and told her about it up front. I reminded her after the first question that I had to get home but she kept asking me to stay.

I gave her a fake name, fake job, fake number, non traceable email, and all she has seen is a non descript company car.

Any advice? But of course I'm going to fc her tomorrow.[/QUOTE]I'd recommend hitting it one more time since you're already scheduled, then go dark. Make up a story about some sort of personal crisis and tell her you'll get back to her. Clingy girls are highly hazardous to relationships or marriages, and the fact that you were up front and she's still begging like a puppy tells me she's probably got an obsessive personality type that can manifest in weird ways. The pattern I see forming is they see themselves as doing you some grand favor by offering something of higher sexual value, whether it's anal, an all-nighter, a threesome or whatever. The truth is they are "offering" those because they want the attention themselves. But, once it's time to cut them loose, they go into revenge mode, with the attitude of "oh my god, I did all this for him and he's going to fuck me over? No way" then they go to any lengths necessary to track you down, including spending money on a private investigator to figure out the details (yes I've seen them do that).

It seems still early with this one for you, so I'd say wean her off of it gradually and make your exit story something extremely believable and something that sounds temporary and like you can't wait for it to be over so you can see her again. This adds a time buffer for her to start seeing someone else, etc. And makes for a smoother transition.

Yesterday I posted how I came off a bad week of cancelled dates and M&Gs. This week is not off to a much better start:

I've been texting with a 19 YO SA girl. We've had trouble getting our schedules aligned for a M&G, but we finally plan for dinner tomorrow night. She'd have to drive an hour here, but I tell her I will give her gas money. We've already discussed that sugar for me equals sugar for her. She has never once shown any indication that that would be an issue for her, if anything she seemed eager to get started.

So, late this afternoon (about 24 hours before our planned M&G), she texts me asking if we could meet tonight instead. I say that's fine, but it won't be for dinner, it will just be for drinks. I give her the addy for where to meet me. She suddenly comments that's farther away than she thought. She then asks if I could give her $$ for gas and something nice to wear for next date and she could still meet for dinner tomorrow night. "It is worth it to meet you", she adds. I immediately see where this is going, but I ask her, " and what will I be getting? "What is it you want?" I remind her that I don't give out sugar until I get sugar. So she lowers her asking price for $ for gas and to meet me. She tells me that it's really far for her to drive (it's an hour) and she has high standards on what to expect. I point out it doesn't take $ worth of gas to get from there to here and back. She replies that it's also for meeting me. She claims she's driven 30 minutes and has gotten $ for a first date before. I tell her I don't pay someone just to meet me and if that's what she's expecting, she's wasting her time. She starts complaining that I'm being rude and only interested in paying for sex and that I'm on the wrong website. Whatever. I can pretty much guarantee that she's another one of these girls who will try to get as much money / gifts out of a guy as possible and then hit the road before she starts holding up her end of the bargain.

The sugar bowl is wearing very, very thin for me lately. I just have no patience at all for so many of these girls.

[QUOTE=FotoGuy1970;2084010]Yesterday I posted how I came off a bad week of cancelled dates and M&Gs. This week is not off to a much better start:

I've been texting with a 19 YO SA girl. We've had trouble getting our schedules aligned for a M&G, but we finally plan for dinner tomorrow night. She'd have to drive an hour here, but I tell her I will give her gas money. We've already discussed that sugar for me equals sugar for her. She has never once shown any indication that that would be an issue for her, if anything she seemed eager to get started.

So, late this afternoon (about 24 hours before our planned M&G), she texts me asking if we could meet tonight instead. I say that's fine, but it won't be for dinner, it will just be for drinks. I give her the addy for where to meet me. She suddenly comments that's farther away than she thought. She then asks if I could give her $$ for gas and something nice to wear for next date and she could still meet for dinner tomorrow night. "It is worth it to meet you", she adds. I immediately see where this is going, but I ask her, " and what will I be getting? "What is it you want?" I remind her that I don't give out sugar until I get sugar. So she lowers her asking price for $ for gas and to meet me. She tells me that it's really far for her to drive (it's an hour) and she has high standards on what to expect. I point out it doesn't take $ worth of gas to get from there to here and back. She replies that it's also for meeting me. She claims she's driven 30 minutes and has gotten $ for a first date before. I tell her I don't pay someone just to meet me and if that's what she's expecting, she's wasting her time. She starts complaining that I'm being rude and only interested in paying for sex and that I'm on the wrong website. Whatever. I can pretty much guarantee that she's another one of these girls who will try to get as much money / gifts out of a guy as possible and then hit the road before she starts holding up her end of the bargain.

The sugar bowl is wearing very, very thin for me lately. I just have no patience at all for so many of these girls.[/QUOTE]Ditch her now. Don't get frustrated. It; s a numbers game. Sometimes I offer to meet them half way. As long as its in the parking lot of a motel. Try that.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2083569]I think you are in your 30's? It sounds like the SBs have an IRL attraction to you therefore your CPO is low. One problem with 60 + is that you have to pay more to attract a girl 40+ years younger. Enjoy it while you can. If I was attracted to the over 35 crowd I would do a lot better, but I am not.[/QUOTE]I am 42, but can pass for 30's. I am in good shape, work out and love to have fun. You are probably correct that attraction (and confidence) allows a lower cost. I will use it while I am able.

HW. Thanks for the tip on paying even if not required. If she was a unicorn I would do that. Right now she is a HOT 19 college AA baby that loves getting pounded multiple times during our dates and a place holder. She even loves car dates so no cost at all. I told her she was in my home town and that I can not be seen anywhere with her -which means no dinner dates either...

Side note. I am a senior member now?

Thanks again for all the help. Directly and indirectly.

[QUOTE=CaneBay;2084336]I am 42, but can pass for 30's. I am in good shape, work out and love to have fun. You are probably correct that attraction (and confidence) allows a lower cost. I will use it while I am able.

HW. Thanks for the tip on paying even if not required. If she was a unicorn I would do that. Right now she is a HOT 19 college AA baby that loves getting pounded multiple times during our dates and a place holder. She even loves car dates so no cost at all. I told her she was in my home town and that I can not be seen anywhere with her -which means no dinner dates either...

Side note. I am a senior member now?

Thanks again for all the help. Directly and indirectly.[/QUOTE]How about a pic of that girl? You got me curious. Props to you dude. I don't seem to get that lucky.

[B]No return on Loan yet[/B]

Like another brother here, I gave a small loan to a Pot SB. She was one of my escort experiments. I gave her a small amount of money that I was okay losing. When we were suppose to be later in the week, she flaked. However she kept contacting sporadically apologizing and saying she still wanted to try to meet. She never asked for money again, she would just have light text conversations with me and say she hoped to get free. I've officially wrote the loan off as a "loss", but I don't think it was an outright scam. I can tell she legitimately wants to get together and finds me attractive. But she's wresting with her lifestyle and I'm just not a high priority enough. I doubt I'll meet up with her, but I don't regret giving the loan or taking a chance. I know her real identity and everything, she's a nice girl. And also it showed I had a decent eye for identifying escorts with some SB potential. As mentioned before, it's a bit of a hobby of mine to try to convert a fresh escort into a SB. So far my success rate has been 0%, but I'm still enjoy trying. At least I've been able to get some of them to open up and tell me how they got into the escort life. Because of that info, it's made it easier for me to identify SBs, UTRs, and Pros, and have an idea what warning signs to look for when a SB might be crossing over.

[B]CL Teacher SB[/B]

Ever since I had a talk with her about flaking, things have now been great. We're meeting more regularly and she's more communicative if something comes up. She has attained official ATF status and it looks like our thing might last a lot longer than I expected. I don't give her a high allowance (just $ per meet) but I do give her a gift every single time I see her. The gifts typically range from $25-75 and it's usually related to something we talked about in conversations. She's loving the gifts and loves the fact that I'm actually listening to her and not just treating her like a prostitute. I also use a reloadable card with her, so I never hand her cash. I think this is why she's been warming up to me even more the past month or so. I'm pretty sure she met with a couple of other SDs before, but they were probably purely transactional with her. But with me, she actually feels like a sugar baby.

[B]Another CL Experiment[/B]

Last week I was trying a new CL experiment. I'll share the details of the experiment at a later date. But the first fish I got was a Latina MILF in her 30's with an awesome pair of tits. Now normally I have a very poor success rate with MILFs because I'm in my 30's myself and I probably just remind them of their ex-husband. So we were having a M&G and it was going pretty well, but then the issue of allowance came up and it was too low for her. However she liked me well enough that she's referring me to her 19 year-old friend and babysitter! She said her friend would love to have the allowance I was offering and that she was very attractive. She showed me a picture, which confirmed it! Great face, and big tits. Not fat at all, but a curvy body type. I should be meeting up with her in a couple of days.

This year so far has definitely been quality over quantity. Last year I was playing purely the numbers game. You'll always win in the end with the numbers game, but it does cost quite a bit of money and time. So I've altered my approach a bit to do tighter filtering and then make sure I have enough resources and do the right things in order to hold on to the good ones that I do manage to catch. Last year, I caught 2-3 really good SBs, but I was so spread thin I ended up losing them. If I had a little more resources and paid a little more attention, I probably could have held on to them longer.

I definitely do the quantity thing because I have found you just never know who you are going to meet. I only stick to my demographic but have a lot of choices due to being in L.A. Yes the cost is higher but once you get a keeper its well worth it. This year I met maybe 20 girls so far and 2 were awesome and I met both of them in the last 10 days. Unfortunately one of them already went BP on me, but she was never going to be an exclusive SB. She is a wide eyed hollywood girl that wants to experience it all. I can't blame her for that. Thats why people move here, especially to hollywood and the beach. Still hoping for an occasional hookup with her as she is a classy beautiful girl. The true definition of a sexy hot latina.

She was the latina pictured in post 6019. The newest one was my Sunday night date. A recent transplant to L.A. She is alone and lonely. She has a job, her own apt and a car. She admitted I was the first guy she ever took money from and has never dated anyone over 30. She is a 24 year old 5'5' 115 lb. Gym toned body. And no bs a 8.5/9.5/10/9 with amazing potential as she has never been spoiled. Those numbers are her in the raw. She was the girl I said was "the girl next door to the girl next door". I seriously went to meet her out of boredom figuring she agreed to the $ and it would probably be just an ok way to pass the time on a boring Sunday night. Her pics in no way prepared me for what I encountered.

I was shocked when she answered the door and here was this petite perfect body cute amiable hottie. We had an amazing first date, her words. I am ready after one date to get serious with her and replace my MILF who I love but she drives me crazy with her nando 1 bs. My MILF is a 10 in the sack with no excuses ever in 2.5 years, she only awaits my commands. Some of the hardest O's I have ever experienced in my life. Her idea of foreplay is sucking me off until "she" gets wet. The we fuck till she has about 20 O's. Seriously no bs. After she is done she goes to work on me with the perfect scenario of moves to give me the biggest bang for my buck that she can.

But that nando 1 bs just never ends. My roomy has boundaries that I respect and my loving little princess will be in training for some time before she can handle what I have to offer. She tries to please me so hard, but was basically a virgin when I met her. So I am ripe for the total package. I will post her pic as soon as I get a good one.

BTW. I love you guys for the total awesomeness of this board/thread.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2084326]Ditch her now. Don't get frustrated. It; s a numbers game. Sometimes I offer to meet them half way. As long as its in the parking lot of a motel. Try that.[/QUOTE]Already ditched her. And she had no interest in heading to a motel immediately following a M&G, she only wanted to get paid for showing up and getting along with me (her words).

No, I love you Hollywood guy. I've been lurking for a long time and you make me want to move to la.

Quick run down.

22 year old massage therapist is chasing me down. She offered to drive an hour today to see me after her work. Don't know which bulge she really needs, wallet or the.

21 year old absolute smoke (former model) student is progressing nicely. I was getting worried about her expectations so I emailed her that I was very frugal with my money. She immediately responded that she wasn't looking much and she was sure whatever I provided would be fine. She sent me a personalized photo.

24 year old hard 9 nurse has been texting since yesterday. She said last night she was sending me a personalized photo. I haven't got it but that may be due to hushed.

25 year old cutie in my town just created an account today and I'm emailing her now. Fingers crossed.

Well, I was heading for my M&G yesterday night. Mixed background...profile...young...! Interesting...have to pick her up from the house...which I was felt odd. Suburb area, quite location, picked her up in my car...went for coffee and dinner. Didn't eat much ...now she says, what's next...! We talk in the car...and SB says lets take a room. This is my first ever experience where SB is pushing for room not me...! Actually it threw me off...asked allowance expectations...that came below my budget (well below). So I was like what the hell... ! Anyway, I was not so sold on SB ...so I decided not to go forward yesterday as I didn't connect...! But interesting one.where...you get surprised...

I have 2 dates for tonite. A makeup date with my MILF and an interview with a very willing prospect. She is an 18 year old AA newly pro that wants an SD (i mean how much mileage can there be on an 18 year old?). I am going to see her because I will already be halfway to her place. Maybe I will have recovered enough by then to get another SOG. If not, at least I get to bang her and do ANYTHING else I want to her. She is down for it all and can't wait to show me what a good girl she is.

I got two dates for tomorrow. The first is my new jamaican princess that I saw on Sunday. Gonna see her at 4 pm. She is an overall 9 headed to a 10 if that's possible. Then a new UTR girl for tomorrow night about 9 pm. if I can handle it (the skater girl). Her SD lets her do other guys in his home. I know he is her slave so he must get off on it. What a world.

Thursday is my usual roommate date. And Friday is the hot latina who finally txted me back, she is finally home from her business trip. She said she was going to buy something really hot for our next date. If she flakes I have a confirmed FC date with the 18 year old white girl pictured in my last post of pics. She says she will drive to me. She is a UTR. But its hard to get a blond and blue 18 year old spinner for $.

One thing I want to say is that I talked to all these new girls at length about what type of skills they need to please me. Not a problem in any way. Young girls love talking about sex. No M&G. Just straight to the FC and all for $. In fact when I saw the jamaican princess for the first date I commented that she seemed awfully skilled at a couple things she said she had never tried. She said she watched some porn before our date to get some pointers to make sure I was happy.

Thats 7 total dates in 4 days if I can get it up. All at $ each. Its likely I may have to cancel one or push one off for a day or two. But 7 girls in a week. All hot. All skilled (although 3 are untested). But I rarely worry about an AA girl with experience. The skater chick already told me enough to know I will have at least an OK time, she is very dirty and loves it. The white girl is an unknown. Sorry, but IMHO white girls just can't compete. And if they are all that, they usually want a lot more dinero.

I will do my best not to post until its all over and have some pics to boot.