Here is link to video. Not good at all for some.
Http: www. Local12. Com / news / features / top-stories / stories / city-shuts-down-hotel-after-allegations-drugs-prostitution-12437. Shtml? Wap=0.
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Here is link to video. Not good at all for some.
Http: www. Local12. Com / news / features / top-stories / stories / city-shuts-down-hotel-after-allegations-drugs-prostitution-12437. Shtml? Wap=0.
This is yet one more reason why hotel incalls are a *very* bad idea.
When I lived in Columbus in the 1990's, all escorting services were *outcall only* with services only provided to clients at verfied residences.
The entire incall strategy makes it much easier for LE to set up stings with fake escorts and conduct surveillance of real escorts.
[QUOTE=SkirtChasa;2111082]This is just the beginning. In order for the City of Norwood to justify a court order shutting down a business for criminal activities, they have to prove those activities were taking place. They've been watching and investigating for a while, so if you are a provider who stayed there or a client who visited there, your face is on security video, your car has been photographed in the parking lot, and Norwood's finest may be knocking on your door. They even mentioned a prostitute who was such a regular, she was getting reduced rates. They've already seen the guest registry, reviewed the tapes, and interviewed the employees. This may end badly for some of those on this board. Let's hope I'm wrong. Be safe. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=ToddCincy;2111291]This is yet one more reason why hotel incalls are a *very* bad idea.
When I lived in Columbus in the 1990's, all escorting services were *outcall only* with services only provided to clients at verfied residences.
The entire incall strategy makes it much easier for LE to set up stings with fake escorts and conduct surveillance of real escorts. [/QUOTE]Apparently, I'm causing all kinds of worry out there about the Norwood hotel. While it's unnerving for those of us who have been there multiple times, the root of the problem LEO is interested in is drug trade. If we stay away going forward, we should be ok. Sorry for causing unecessary worry. SC.
[QUOTE=SkirtChasa;2111082]This is just the beginning. In order for the City of Norwood to justify a court order shutting down a business for criminal activities, they have to prove those activities were taking place. They've been watching and investigating for a while, so if you are a provider who stayed there or a client who visited there, your face is on security video, your car has been photographed in the parking lot, and Norwood's finest may be knocking on your door. They even mentioned a prostitute who was such a regular, she was getting reduced rates. They've already seen the guest registry, reviewed the tapes, and interviewed the employees. This may end badly for some of those on this board. Let's hope I'm wrong. Be safe. [/QUOTE]I was just visiting a friend who got some takeout from Cancun I swear!
Seriously though, scary. Then again it is directly across the street from the PD.
I think I'll stick with private residences from now on.
Well it seems business was slow there for the last couple of years. It seems the working gals were helping to keep it afloat! Was this so bad? I mean seriously. It is not as if the red lights are on outside, and the gals are sticking their legs out on the sidewalk in front of the place. Who was getting hurt here?
Makes you wonder which hotel is next? I mean a couple of months ago we had that deal in Blue Ash. And now this. I see the point that was mentioned about cameras and whatnot, but what about ladies who entertain in their residence? What of that traffic? I feel safer going to a hotel, when I go to a chick's place, I feel the whole damn neighborhood is watching me. And EVERYONE has a camera phone.
It seems worse now, makes me long for the days under uncle Simon!
No, you aren't causing "paranoia" It was a worthwhile report. And a moderate dose of paranoia, by the way, is what keeps all of us off the evening news.
LE realizes that it can't eliminate the hobby entirely. They therefore prioritize based on certain factors.
The most obvious ones are drugs, evidence of human trafficking, and / or the involvement of minors. (None of these are characteristic of the posts on USAG, of course.).
However, LE will also prioritize enforcement activities when there are public complaints.
You probably saw the video of the citizens interviewed about the West McMicken roadblocks. They all knew what was going on. The roadblocks were likely prompted by citizens' complaints. SW activity is considered to be a *public nuisance* by many people, including some who would be willing to adopt a "live and let live" attitude toward activities taking place behind closed doors, in private.
Which brings us to hotel incalls. When a woman with a local address repeatedly stays in a hotel and receives multiple male visitors during the daytime hours, it isn't hard to figure out what is going on. (There have even been cases of hotel guests complaining about such activities.).
The Norwood bust will prompt other hotel managers to be more vigilant. No hotel owner wants to be shut down over the minor amount of revenue that a provider brings him by renting a room.
On the other hand: When a provider visits my house, after dark, when most of the neighborhood is asleep, there is very little "public visibility" factor. Even if my neighbor's kids are playing in their front yard, no one really knows what is going on. The woman could be my girlfriend, a friend, or my sister, for that matter. Therefore, my hobby activities are highly unlikely to generate complaints to LE, or unwanted attention (unless the provider dresses indiscreetly, which is exceedingly rare).
The best way to keep the hobby safe is to keep it underground and invisible to uninvolved parties.
This is why having ads on Craigslist is a bad idea. (Far better to use dedicated forums like USAG, which are not frequented by the general public.).
This is also why hotel incalls (along with SW activity, which is a bad idea for any number of reasons) invite public scrutiny.
The Cincinnati market (both providers and hobbyists) seems obsessed with the high-profile and easy-to-bust hotel incall business model. It should not be all that complicated to carry out the hobby on an outcall basis; and this would be a lot safer and less conspicuous, too.
[QUOTE=SkirtChasa;2111311]Apparently, I'm causing all kinds of worry out there about the Norwood hotel. While it's unnerving for those of us who have been there multiple times, the root of the problem LEO is interested in is drug trade. If we stay away going forward, we should be ok. Sorry for causing unecessary worry. SC.[/QUOTE]
For those of us who are married, oc is not an option. Obviously, getting busted is a huge concern, especially for thise of us who are not as experienced in the hobby. Any opinions on the safety of a residential incall? I've talked myself out of several meetings with unreviewed girls in the past just out of paranoia of getting arrested.
I believe have been to that hotel. I think many of UTR girls from Buddah use to work out of there.
I didn't say that outcall was the most convenient. It isn't. And I recognize the obstacles for married hobbyists. (I'm single.).
Regarding safety: I've never heard of an outcall residential bust. Most stings (whether directed at hobbyists or providers) occur in hotel rooms. It is more costly for LE to set up a residence (versus renting a room) to target providers. Likewise, busting a hobbyist in his home, while possible, would impose numerous logistical difficulties. It is more difficult for them to control this situation.
Would it be possible? Sure. But it would involve a lot more time, effort, and expense. From LE's perspective, hotel and street activities are the low-hanging fruit. (These are also the ones that draw the citizen complaints.).
There is always a risk involved in letting a stranger into your home. I only see reviewed providers or women from reputable agencies, so I'm not overly concerned about this, though.
I'm much more concerned about who might be watching / filming me as I walk across a hotel parking lot.
[QUOTE=HappyBoy35;2112237]For those of us who are married, oc is not an option. Obviously, getting busted is a huge concern, especially for thise of us who are not as experienced in the hobby. Any opinions on the safety of a residential incall? I've talked myself out of several meetings with unreviewed girls in the past just out of paranoia of getting arrested.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=HappyBoy35;2112237]For those of us who are married, oc is not an option. Obviously, getting busted is a huge concern, especially for thise of us who are not as experienced in the hobby. Any opinions on the safety of a residential incall? I've talked myself out of several meetings with unreviewed girls in the past just out of paranoia of getting arrested.[/QUOTE]I've done the same myself, had some scares, I don't think there is any completely foolproof way, it is all about risk mitigation. You start doing out call and it is another can of worms.
[QUOTE=HappyBoy35;2112237]For those of us who are married, oc is not an option. Obviously, getting busted is a huge concern, especially for those of us who are not as experienced in the hobby. Any opinions on the safety of a residential incall? I've talked myself out of several meetings with unreviewed girls in the past just out of paranoia of getting arrested.[/QUOTE]A married guy can do out call but it just ads to the expense and creates another type of risk. I am seeing several SB's and they cannot host. As a result, I have to get a room when we meet. That costs me money and creates a risk because I have to show I'd to register. On the other hand, it allows me to see some ladies I would otherwise pass over. It also allows me to control the atmosphere inside the room, to check the arriving lady to make sure it is the right one and to take as much time in the room as I need. My typical cost for a room in the NE part of the city is about $70 with tax. That will increase as vacation season builds.
As for residential incall, I think you have to be completely comfortable with the lady knowing exactly who you are. If you are married and do a residential incall, you are handing your date a loaded gun metaphorically speaking. I know several women here who I think I can trust absolutely - - but if their kids needed help and they thought I could provide it, do I think they would put their kids first? Yeah, I do and I don't blame them. However, I will stay anonymous to remove all temptation.
RB.
[QUOTE=HappyBoy35;2112237]For those of us who are married, oc is not an option. Obviously, getting busted is a huge concern, especially for thise of us who are not as experienced in the hobby. Any opinions on the safety of a residential incall? I've talked myself out of several meetings with unreviewed girls in the past just out of paranoia of getting arrested.[/QUOTE]I don't normally go to a residential incall unless I've seen reviews here. Even so, residential incall has its own set of risks. For example, a lot more places for a crazy boyfriend of the provider to hide. If anything happened to me in a hotel, someone would eventually find me. But not necessarily so for a private residence. But so far, no problems for me in a private residence, and again, that's because I only do them if I've seen reviews here.
I stopped going there because the place was a dump and right down the street from the police station.
It has always been my issue with the ladies who are higher traffic providers and who work in pairs or more.
Also with the ladies who do not live there but keep a room.
At one hotel, a provider told me she was "tight" with the manager and I had nothing to worry about.
Really?
If LE comes upon him for some other illegal business (if he knowingly allows this, what else is going on? What will he give up first, the provider or his job?
No thank you. I would rather see a lady who is discrete and values her privacy and safety.
LE has been known to run plates. Local plates parked in a hotel lot indicate to them something is up.
It may only be someone stepping out on his wife or maybe something innocent. But they like to investigate that stuff.
An arrest history tied to that car, its owner and you are now in the cross hairs of a possible investigation.
No thank you.
Be safe and take cautions.
[QUOTE=ToddCincy;2112325] There is always a risk involved in letting a stranger into your home.[/QUOTE]We can always be found. There are a host of other risks but being findable for years should be reason enough to never bring a girl into our home.
[QUOTE=SashaBlack;2112699]And no we will never be there again.
I'm just glad we all got away harm free.[/QUOTE]I am certainly glad if / when you are away harm free.
RB.
P.S. I means I am away harm free also!
[QUOTE=SkirtChasa;2111082]This is just the beginning. In order for the City of Norwood to justify a court order shutting down a business for criminal activities, they have to prove those activities were taking place. They've been watching and investigating for a while, so if you are a provider who stayed there or a client who visited there, your face is on security video, your car has been photographed in the parking lot, and Norwood's finest may be knocking on your door. They even mentioned a prostitute who was such a regular, she was getting reduced rates. They've already seen the guest registry, reviewed the tapes, and interviewed the employees. This may end badly for some of those on this board. Let's hope I'm wrong. Be safe.[/QUOTE]Was there Saturday night, had never been there before. Yikes.
[QUOTE=ToddCincy;2112211]No, you aren't causing "paranoia" It was a worthwhile report. And a moderate dose of paranoia, by the way, is what keeps all of us off the evening news.
LE realizes that it can't eliminate the hobby entirely. They therefore prioritize based on certain factors.
The most obvious ones are drugs, evidence of human trafficking, and / or the involvement of minors. (None of these are characteristic of the posts on USAG, of course.).
However, LE will also prioritize enforcement activities when there are public complaints.
You probably saw the video of the citizens interviewed about the West McMicken roadblocks. They all knew what was going on. The roadblocks were likely prompted by citizens' complaints. SW activity is considered to be a *public nuisance* by many people, including some who would be willing to adopt a "live and let live" attitude toward activities taking place behind closed doors, in private.
Which brings us to hotel incalls. When a woman with a local address repeatedly stays in a hotel and receives multiple male visitors during the daytime hours, it isn't hard to figure out what is going on. (There have even been cases of hotel guests complaining about such activities.).
The Norwood bust will prompt other hotel managers to be more vigilant. No hotel owner wants to be shut down over the minor amount of revenue that a provider brings him by renting a room.
On the other hand: When a provider visits my house, after dark, when most of the neighborhood is asleep, there is very little "public visibility" factor. Even if my neighbor's kids are playing in their front yard, no one really knows what is going on. The woman could be my girlfriend, a friend, or my sister, for that matter. Therefore, my hobby activities are highly unlikely to generate complaints to LE, or unwanted attention (unless the provider dresses indiscreetly, which is exceedingly rare).
The best way to keep the hobby safe is to keep it underground and invisible to uninvolved parties.
This is why having ads on Craigslist is a bad idea. (Far better to use dedicated forums like USAG, which are not frequented by the general public.).
This is also why hotel incalls (along with SW activity, which is a bad idea for any number of reasons) invite public scrutiny.
The Cincinnati market (both providers and hobbyists) seems obsessed with the high-profile and easy-to-bust hotel incall business model. It should not be all that complicated to carry out the hobby on an outcall basis; and this would be a lot safer and less conspicuous, too.[/QUOTE]This report is one of the best and truest I've seen in a long time. Remember there's always pros and cons in this game.
[QUOTE=BigJoe6980;2111236]Here is link to video. Not good at all for some.
Http: www. Local12. Com / news / features / top-stories / stories / city-shuts-down-hotel-after-allegations-drugs-prostitution-12437. Shtml? Wap=0.[/QUOTE]Honestly, I'm surprised the hotel lasted that long with the Norwood Police station right next door. I could only imagine how hard it would be to continuously do illegal activities basically right underneath the PIGS nose!
[QUOTE=SkirtChasa;2111311]Apparently, I'm causing all kinds of worry out there about the Norwood hotel. While it's unnerving for those of us who have been there multiple times, the root of the problem LEO is interested in is drug trade. If we stay away going forward, we should be ok. Sorry for causing unecessary worry. SC.[/QUOTE]I stayed there briefly and left due to being witness to sloppy providers and dealers (if you visited, you KNOW the third floor always smelled like pot). After speaking to a gentleman I met there and chatted with during breakfast, I'm pretty sure this was more focused on drugs than anything. He told me the cops were given his name by a provider (a customer of his) staying there, evidently trying to get a Felony possession charge removed. The gentleman drove to the police station, asked if he had warrant or if he was wanted like he heard theough the grapevine.
He said he saw the list and it looks dealer-focused. Someone gave up a lot of info / names.
I figured I'd share what I knew.
OK, so from what I'm reading there are some potential problems arising out of this Norwood hotel. So I'm going to come down from the north and put my 2 cents in cause I like Cincy and the people there.
1. If you think you might have a problem contact your lawyer, explain the possibility of legal difficulty (you don't have to go into great detail, just let him know its not felony), and ask him what is the best way to reach him 24 hours a day, especially on Friday night and weekends.
2. If you get picked up it will probably be on a Friday after 3:00 PM. They like to jack people in the afternoon because they know its very hard to get ahold of most lawyers at that time of day / week.
3. If you get questioned don't answer any question, no matter how innocent it sounds, except your name. DO NOT ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS until you reach your lawyer. Do not explain that you weren't there, that's not you, nothing.
4. If they have anything on you they will arrest you and charge you with something. If they are questioning you without arresting you they are trying to get you to incriminate yourself.
Cheech.
[QUOTE=Cheech1;2117016]OK, so from what I'm reading there are some potential problems arising out of this Norwood hotel. So I'm going to come down from the north and put my 2 cents in cause I like Cincy and the people there.
1. If you think you might have a problem contact your lawyer, explain the possibility of legal difficulty (you don't have to go into great detail, just let him know its not felony), and ask him what is the best way to reach him 24 hours a day, especially on Friday night and weekends.
2. If you get picked up it will probably be on a Friday after 3:00 PM. They like to jack people in the afternoon because they know its very hard to get ahold of most lawyers at that time of day / week.
3. If you get questioned don't answer any question, no matter how innocent it sounds, except your name. DO NOT ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS until you reach your lawyer. Do not explain that you weren't there, that's not you, nothing.
4. If they have anything on you they will arrest you and charge you with something. If they are questioning you without arresting you they are trying to get you to incriminate yourself.
Cheech.[/QUOTE]I agree. Below are some additional items.
- go to youtube and search for do not talk to the police, I learned a few things.
- the only things you should say to the police are: am I under arrest, am I free to go, and I want a lawyer.
Looks like they are getting specific with room numbers. And. Looks like a few snitches too. Arrest Warrants can't be too far away. [URL]http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/norwood/judge-orders-norwood-hotel-remain-closed-after-police-describe-drugs-prostitution[/URL].
[QUOTE=AngryJohnny;2124230]Looks like they are getting specific with room numbers. And. Looks like a few snitches too. Arrest Warrants can't be too far away. [URL]http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/norwood/judge-orders-norwood-hotel-remain-closed-after-police-describe-drugs-prostitution[/URL].[/QUOTE]It does appear, from the article that the main focus is the drug trade and prostitutes are being leveraged to squeal on the dealers. Let's hope that's where their focus remains.
[QUOTE=AngryJohnny;2124230]Looks like they are getting specific with room numbers. And. Looks like a few snitches too. Arrest Warrants can't be too far away. [URL]http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/norwood/judge-orders-norwood-hotel-remain-closed-after-police-describe-drugs-prostitution[/URL].[/QUOTE]Drug addicts, will steal, cheat, lie, and rat each other outwhen there not included, ir in trouble with the law.
Good enough reason to try to stay with the girls that are clean, don't want to go down because of some nasty girl that didn't get her way.
[QUOTE=CockNumb;2124482]Drug addicts, will steal, cheat, lie, and rat each other outwhen there not included, ir in trouble with the law.
Good enough reason to try to stay with the girls that are clean, don't want to go down because of some nasty girl that didn't get her way.[/QUOTE]There's been a lot of posts about the closing of the Quality Inn at Norwood and the media attention that received. What I don't understand is if things were that bad and out in the open why did it take the authorities so long to act? That's really the story here.
[QUOTE=Golfcart;2124492]There's been a lot of posts about the closing of the Quality Inn at Norwood and the media attention that received. What I don't understand is if things were that bad and out in the open why did it take the authorities so long to act? That's really the story here.[/QUOTE]It takes awhile to build a case. LE cannot do something as big as this without a thorough investigation using many undercovers and informants. Judges want to see a pattern of proof nit just hearsay.
[QUOTE=Golfcart;2124492] why did it take the authorities so long to act? [/QUOTE]I believe it is common to gather enough evidence for a good case. The "beyond reasonable doubt" thing when it goes to court. This is a national chain who would probably sue the city for defamation if the charges were unfounded.
Always be careful. Just because you are not stopped does not mean you are not being observed.
Fdx.
[QUOTE=CockNumb;2124482]Good enough reason to try to stay with the girls that are clean, don't want to go down because of some nasty girl that didn't get her way.[/QUOTE]Good luck finding that in Cincy. I only know one girl who's not on some type of drug. Some of them are visible -- obvious scars on the body, arms, and legs. Some girls smoke or snort it. But, I only know one girl who's in the game that I've had the pleasure of seeing (Ally) who's not on any type of drugs.
I just assume the backpage girls are on something (generally because every time I've called or been with one there were telltale signs of heroin use) and I stay away from the streetwalkers.
[QUOTE=Fdx17;2124571]I believe it is common to gather enough evidence for a good case. The "beyond reasonable doubt" thing when it goes to court. This is a national chain who would probably sue the city for defamation if the charges were unfounded.[/QUOTE]The hotels are owned by a management company who are being represented by a local law firm. Choice brands national has had no input or comment other than the traditional "working with law enforcement" statement. It's my understanding that the management company fired everyone who was at the hotel after the cops shut it down, and are just fighting to keep the city from seizing it and then auctioning it off under forfeiture laws.
[QUOTE=CockNumb;2124482]Drug addicts, will steal, cheat, lie, and rat each other outwhen there not included, ir in trouble with the law.
Good enough reason to try to stay with the girls that are clean, don't want to go down because of some nasty girl that didn't get her way.[/QUOTE]You don't have to be a drug addict to rat somebody out, being a rat is all about how much jail time you can do without becoming a rat. For some people that's as little as 1 day in jail. For most guys on this board they have a lot to lose going to jail isn't an option so if a person is faced with enough jail time to lose their job or their house or even have their S / O find out about their activities and snitching somebody out will keep them out of jail I'm sorry most people will snitch. And you don't have to be a drug addict to be a liar thief or a cheat just look at our politicians or on Wall Street, athletes, hell your neighbors, your pastor or minister and for some people they just need to look in the mirror. Sorry you can't say drug addicts are the only ones out here doing dirt. HL29.
[QUOTE=HuntLadys29;2124648]You don't have to be a drug addict to rat somebody out, being a rat is all about how much jail time you can do without becoming a rat. For some people that's as little as 1 day in jail. For most guys on this board they have a lot to lose going to jail isn't an option so if a person is faced with enough jail time to lose their job or their house or even have their S / O find out about their activities and snitching somebody out will keep them out of jail I'm sorry most people will snitch. And you don't have to be a drug addict to be a liar thief or a cheat just look at our politicians or on Wall Street, athletes, hell your neighbors, your pastor or minister and for some people they just need to look in the mirror. Sorry you can't say drug addicts are the only ones out here doing dirt. HL29.[/QUOTE]Hunts has a point. What most people don't realize is that the gestapo has set the sentencing guidelines so that sentences are way out of proportion to the alleged crime, number one. Number two is that while you have a right to a lawyer for your defense, you have to pay for anything other than a public defender, to whom you are in the great majority of cases just a file folder among hundreds on his desk. All he wants to do is clear his case log. The gestapo, on the other hand, has unlimited funds in the form of dollars stolen at the point of a gun from the population to hire and pay lawyers, so-called expert witnesses, private investigators, etc. On top of that they way overcharge, just so if you get a private lawyer they can tell you its going to be 3 or 4 grand per felony. And by the way you have to pay in advance because the lawyer knows if you lose he's not getting paid from your jail cell. Oh, and that business about impartial judges? The only judges that are allowed to run, i.e. supported by the partys, are those who are government ass kissers for the most part anyway. They are statists who believe in the power of government over the people.
That's why people rat.
Cheech.
[QUOTE=MisforMaster;2124626]The hotels are owned by a management company who are being represented by a local law firm. Choice brands national has had no input or comment other than the traditional "working with law enforcement" statement. It's my understanding that the management company fired everyone who was at the hotel after the cops shut it down, and are just fighting to keep the city from seizing it and then auctioning it off under forfeiture laws.[/QUOTE]I just read in the enquirer that judge Ruehlman will rule on the case in July, the enquirer said he could decide to close the hotel for a year that is the most allowed under Ohio law. I thought I heard that before because that is how long the drake hotel got, the only problem is does the proprietor have the funds to reopen the motel, I see the drake nor the sycamore has reopened if they are into the banks, the bank isn't going to wait a year or more for their money especially from a motel deemed a nuisance by the city of Cincinnati Norwood or Reading. The one year closing can be a death sentence for the motel. HL29.
I still shake my head when a church moves into an old movie theater. Since I have a friend that was the head manager of two theaters that closed that are an a church. But this takes the cake! So long theéjà Vu.
[URL]http://www.wlwt.com/news/after-renovation-old-strip-club-becomes-church/26714604[/URL]#!5 Yb9 L.
[QUOTE=MsmithOhio1860;2137030]I still shake my head when a church moves into an old movie theater. Since I have a friend that was the head manager of two theaters that closed that are an a church. But this takes the cake! So long thej Vu.
[URL]http://www.wlwt.com/news/after-renovation-old-strip-club-becomes-church/26714604[/URL]#!5 Yb9 L.[/QUOTE]Lots of activities for confession.
[QUOTE=MsmithOhio1860;2137030]I still shake my head when a church moves into an old movie theater. Since I have a friend that was the head manager of two theaters that closed that are an a church. But this takes the cake! So long thej Vu.
[URL]http://www.wlwt.com/news/after-renovation-old-strip-club-becomes-church/26714604[/URL]#!5 Yb9 L.[/QUOTE]The would get better attendance if they had the former girls who worked there ushering the isles.
[QUOTE=MsmithOhio1860;2137030]I still shake my head when a church moves into an old movie theater. Since I have a friend that was the head manager of two theaters that closed that are an a church. But this takes the cake! So long thej Vu.
[URL]http://www.wlwt.com/news/after-renovation-old-strip-club-becomes-church/26714604[/URL]#!5 Yb9 L.[/QUOTE]At the risk of alienating a few of you.
How can you possibly begrudge people, who want to worship, taking the opportunity to find inexpensive facilities that happen to be structurally ideal for large group gatherings? People have a right to worship as they please. Old theatres and yes, even a converted strip club, are ideal places for churches operating on a shoe-string budget. I don't imagine they paid much for the building. And so many churches struggle these days to get by in our current economy when donations have dropped markedly.
Leave them be. I don't get this animus you display.
I believe the oft quoted, albeit somewhat distorted from what I believe it's true meaning to be, saying is: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". I'm sure you want them to leave you to your pursuits. Leave them to theirs.
[QUOTE=FortyPlus;2137127]At the risk of alienating a few of you.
How can you possibly begrudge people, who want to worship, taking the opportunity to find inexpensive facilities that happen to be structurally ideal for large group gatherings? People have a right to worship as they please. Old theatres and yes, even a converted strip club, are ideal places for churches operating on a shoe-string budget. I don't imagine they paid much for the building. And so many churches struggle these days to get by in our current economy when donations have dropped markedly.
Leave them be. I don't get this animus you display.
I believe the oft quoted, albeit somewhat distorted from what I believe it's true meaning to be, saying is: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". I'm sure you want them to leave you to your pursuits. Leave them to theirs.[/QUOTE]I couldn't agree with you more!
[QUOTE=FortyPlus;2137127]At the risk of alienating a few of you.
How can you possibly begrudge people, who want to worship, taking the opportunity to find inexpensive facilities that happen to be structurally ideal for large group gatherings? People have a right to worship as they please. Old theatres and yes, even a converted strip club, are ideal places for churches operating on a shoe-string budget. I don't imagine they paid much for the building. And so many churches struggle these days to get by in our current economy when donations have dropped markedly.
Leave them be. I don't get this animus you display.
I believe the oft quoted, albeit somewhat distorted from what I believe it's true meaning to be, saying is: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". I'm sure you want them to leave you to your pursuits. Leave them to theirs.[/QUOTE]I wasn't bashing anyone. And for the record, I may not be a religious man, but can anyone else on here say they lost a loved one to a religious cult? Cause that's what got me started in the hobby.
I believe the animus some of us have for organized religion us not because we don't want them to worship as they please, its because so many of them try to shove their fairy tales and dogma down our throats and try to use the gestapo government to do so. Lets be real. Governments and churches have always historically gotten together to control the people through fear of an afterlife and persecution in real life. That is, until the government decides they don't need the church anymore, then they hang the clergy.
Cheech.