"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2033263]We do it, they do it. She scored a new Daddy (no sex? Riiiight!) She wants to play multiples and maximize her income. You have 2 choices.

1) Give her 1 more chance to make you happy IF you are OK with her having other SDs, or.

2) Bag her and ride your Italian Princess until she finds a better deal.

In the end they all want more than they have. It's all about the money. Girls like sex as a tool to get what they want in life, which is security.

My FB hit me up with the disaster of the month. The amt was over $1000 , just a loan for a week. I didn't respond other than to say "sorry for your loss ". Over the week the amt dropped. I finally saw her for our usual meeting and nothing was said. Don't fall for the Nando 1 leanings.

Pot #1 I was working a few months ago. She is a hot little teenybopper who lives alone but can't activate her phone. She still wants $50 to turn her phone on so we can talk. Now I wasn't born yesterday but I sure would like to fuck that little tart. I might throw $50 into the pot with a promise of more if she meets up with me. But that is seed money to be lost most likely. The other option is to drive 1 1/2 hours to meet her with the promise of phone and allowance money if I like her. Any other thoughts?[/QUOTE]

Dude I don't think there is another SD with an envelope with 2200 in it, a new washer with a bow delivered to her house, and dinner and flowers at 5:00 in the afternoon (this is my favorite part is the guy a senior citizen and wanted to get the early bird special so he could get to bed? lol), and did not ask for sex.

That is all bullshit to try to get me to come around. I do think she likes me (like as in sexual attraction). I saw the look in her eyes and how she came at me so hungrily. I could be wrong. But I know that look. And it is one of the most beautiful looks in the world. But that is not everything. She also wants the money too. And she is trying to create a scenario in order to make me jealous to convince me to give it to her. Its not going to work though. If she comes around to my offer of 200 I will fuck her little pussy so hard she will be crying for mercy.

As for her having other daddies. Possibly I would never know. But hell we never know with any of them, actually that holds true with any woman. So why worry about it.

As for your POT if she is trying to get you to come up with such a small amount without seeing you then she is already a risky girl. (aren't they all? LOL) And the 1.5 hours drive is a risk also. How about this? Have her meet you halfway. Pick a location and see how she reacts. I would never send her the 50. Hell she may be a dude, just scamming for money. I never meet them without talking on the phone anymore. It helps some but I still get flaked on occasionally. Risks of the game right?

Good luck. And pound that little Nando 1 pussy hard.

Revvo.

[QUOTE=Revvo;2033290]Dude I don't think there is another SD with an envelope with 2200 in it, a new washer with a bow delivered to her house, and dinner and flowers at 5:00 in the afternoon (this is my favorite part is the guy a senior citizen and wanted to get the early bird special so he could get to bed? lol), and did not ask for sex.
[/QUOTE]At some point in the conversation there is usually some mention of some other SD or potential SD who falls into what I call the A+B. = C. equation for lack of a better name for it:

(a) more generous financially than me

(b) less demanding sexually than me

(c) less of a "total package" than me according to her

The first two are her fishing for an upgrade while the third buffers it with an ego stroke. Example, she might say:

"There's this guy who wants to give me 500 just for dinner only he hasn't even talked about sex, but I just don't see myself with him because I don't have that sexual attraction like I do with you".

500 is the (A) component because its more than the 200 or so I've mentioned, dinner-only and no sex is the (B) component, and (C) is the part where she negates his value in some way in order to cater to my ego and preclude me from saying "well why don't you just hook with this guy if its a better offer".

It's all part of their game. I counter it with something that makes them realize they need to figure out which is more important, A+B. or C. because they can't have their cake and eat it too.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2033406]At some point in the conversation there is usually some mention of some other SD or potential SD who falls into what I call the A+B. = C. equation for lack of a better name for it:

(a) more generous financially than me

(b) less demanding sexually than me

(c) less of a "total package" than me according to her

The first two are her fishing for an upgrade while the third buffers it with an ego stroke. Example, she might say:

"There's this guy who wants to give me 500 just for dinner only he hasn't even talked about sex, but I just don't see myself with him because I don't have that sexual attraction like I do with you".

500 is the (A) component because its more than the 200 or so I've mentioned, dinner-only and no sex is the (B) component, and (C) is the part where she negates his value in some way in order to cater to my ego and preclude me from saying "well why don't you just hook with this guy if its a better offer".

It's all part of their game. I counter it with something that makes them realize they need to figure out which is more important, A+B. or C. because they can't have their cake and eat it too.[/QUOTE]Hell, I've been played this way by girlfriends. All part of the game, indeed.

[QUOTE=WestCentral;2033768]Hell, I've been played this way by girlfriends. All part of the game, indeed.[/QUOTE]Yep. Being sexually active since age 13, it wasn't long after that until I realize I was at risk of being a doormat for women my entire life if I didn't learn how to play the game better than they did -- so I focused on that instead of pretty much everything else, including sports and academics. I didn't even begin to work hard in school from puberty until I was in college, spending most of my time and energy chasing pussy and making sure I always came out on top of the situation (no pun intended). By the time I was in college, my game was well developed and it was time to learn how to make some money :)

I'm relatively new to the SB thing, but all regular dating skills and techniques I developed for handling women have not only transferred over, but seem to now pay even bigger dividends. Only difference is back then, there was never money on the table and they were close to my age. Getting older and more financially capable comes with its own price, to be sure.

Dating is dating, and sugardaddying is different only in subtle ways -- fundamentally still dating.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2033830]Yep. Being sexually active since age 13, it wasn't long after that until I realize I was at risk of being a doormat for women my entire life if I didn't learn how to play the game better than they did -- so I focused on that instead of pretty much everything else, including sports and academics. I didn't even begin to work hard in school from puberty until I was in college, spending most of my time and energy chasing pussy and making sure I always came out on top of the situation (no pun intended). By the time I was in college, my game was well developed and it was time to learn how to make some money :)

I'm relatively new to the SB thing, but all regular dating skills and techniques I developed for handling women have not only transferred over, but seem to now pay even bigger dividends. Only difference is back then, there was never money on the table and they were close to my age. Getting older and more financially capable comes with its own price, to be sure.

Dating is dating, and sugardaddying is different only in subtle ways -- fundamentally still dating.[/QUOTE]Unless you can get total control of a girl sexually in civi dating, I have to disagree that the similarities are that close. I grew up in neighborhood that had its share of spoiled rich kids, and the dudes with the coin always had more girls. Even when it was well known they were under endowed. Cash is king, but combine it with age and bedroom skills and then you are a living god. LOL.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2033889]Unless you can get total control of a girl sexually in civi dating, I have to disagree that the similarities are that close. I grew up in neighborhood that had its share of spoiled rich kids, and the dudes with the coin always had more girls. Even when it was well known they were under endowed. Cash is king, but combine it with age and bedroom skills and then you are a living god. LOL.[/QUOTE]

Agreed about your last line, but the thing is once you have cash there is almost no way you can separate it from dating. Even if we meet a woman while broke and get rich while with her, it will impact our relationship in some way (and probably not in the way we'd prefer).

Part of the art of the game is being in control of the relationship without them realizing it. When they're eating out of your hand psychologically, it matters less what you actually have in your hand (cash in this case).

I was just saying that "game", or the social skills with which we use to interact with our ladies, is something you benefit from whether civi, SD, or anything else. Cash enhances it all of course, amping up our game when present, but game can be developed without it. Having cash without having game will still get us pussy, but having game will keep us paying a whole lot less for it, or in some cases not paying cash (directly) at all. Notice I said not paying cash, civi dating can get expensive too.

I personally have two major obstacles (1) being in a regular relationship I don't want to give up and (2) my actual age and financial position makes it harder for me to be with the age range of women I prefer without being an SD. (1) means I can only do this a few weeks out of the year, and (2) isn't going to get any easier with time.

If you've never been in a nightclub, only to have a cute 21 old flirt with you, pull you out on stage to dance with her, and after a half hour be all over you with her tongue down your throat, only to watch her suddenly lose interest when she learns your actual age (at least twice hers) and start to act creeped out as she starts thinking her friends will judge her, etc., then it would be hard to imagine the type of disappointment I'm looking to avoid with the SB scene. I've been in the above scenarios and its not fun. At least with SBs they've already made up their mind they will screw an older guy. In the mainstream civi pick-up world, even if you still have the charm to pull it off, you have the real-world obstacle of your actual age to get in the way. Sugardaddying solves that problem for me.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2033906]Agreed about your last line, but the thing is once you have cash there is almost no way you can separate it from dating. Even if we meet a woman while broke and get rich while with her, it will impact our relationship in some way (and probably not in the way we'd prefer).

Part of the art of the game is being in control of the relationship without them realizing it. When they're eating out of your hand psychologically, it matters less what you actually have in your hand (cash in this case).

I was just saying that "game", or the social skills with which we use to interact with our ladies, is something you benefit from whether civi, SD, or anything else. Cash enhances it all of course, amping up our game when present, but game can be developed without it. Having cash without having game will still get us pussy, but having game will keep us paying a whole lot less for it, or in some cases not paying cash (directly) at all. Notice I said not paying cash, civi dating can get expensive too.

I personally have two major obstacles (1) being in a regular relationship I don't want to give up and (2) my actual age and financial position makes it harder for me to be with the age range of women I prefer without being an SD. (1) means I can only do this a few weeks out of the year, and (2) isn't going to get any easier with time.

If you've never been in a nightclub, only to have a cute 21 old flirt with you, pull you out on stage to dance with her, and after a half hour be all over you with her tongue down your throat, only to watch her suddenly lose interest when she learns your actual age (at least twice hers) and start to act creeped out as she starts thinking her friends will judge her, etc., then it would be hard to imagine the type of disappointment I'm looking to avoid with the SB scene. I've been in the above scenarios and its not fun. At least with SBs they've already made up their mind they will screw an older guy. In the mainstream civi pick-up world, even if you still have the charm to pull it off, you have the real-world obstacle of your actual age to get in the way. Sugardaddying solves that problem for me.[/QUOTE]At 60 and dating mostly 20 year olds and only internet dating for 15 years, there is no other option for me to get what I want. And yes game is key. I really had none when I started. In the beginning I had a ton of cash which I spent freely. It was a very expensive lesson. And now, yes, I pay a little and get a lot. So I hear ya brother.

I met this blond a couple of months back on SDforme. Actually we never met we just talked. You can always tell a lot about POTs by how well they respond at first. People have what is called a social tone. And what that is. Is a very strong preference for being nice communicative and social when they first meet you. Such as in a party when you are introduced to someone, or on a job interview when trying to impress, or first chatting with someone on a dating site.

Now many of these people drop the social tone eventually if they are honest and of normal quality they can maintain the social tone for a very long time because it is their nature. If they are very deceptive like a lot of the women on these sites they can maintain it for quite a while and usually long enough to get something from you. But most women can only do it for so long and then they revert back to their natural state which is angry, surly, bitter, desperate, sarcastic, or a variety Nando 1 type of behaviors. By the way gents use this info at your own peril if they have this pattern of behavior early on beware, spend time to screen them and see if they can maintain it.

So anyway I was chatting with this very attractive but not gorgeous blond MILF, 35 YO nice body. And she is not very responsive but hey I was not busy at the moment so I would go a little longer. Big waste of time. So I eventually get her on the phone and she is not overly pleasant just cordial. And she starts to tell me about a health issue she is having with her 10 YO son. Now my son has the same issues and I am very familiar with the details of it and offer her some advice and information. Which she eagerly accepts and is very interested in.

The conversation goes for about 15 minutes like this. Pleasant and decent. I am in the car driving to an appointment so I have an hour to kill. So eventually she asks me. "you keep referring to we, are you married?" I said of course I am so is about all of the men on that site. She says no they are not. I said yes just a lot of them just don't tell you this. I said are you familiar with what a sugar daddy is. She says "jerk but its ok, they are all jerks" and then she kind of smirks and laughs a little. Now the phone was a little garbled so I thought. Maybe I did not hear her right. So I said did you just call me a jerk. Now I have done nothing to this woman and have not said anything mean or hid anything from her my marital status is on my profile. I had even been helping her with something very important. But she could not see past her own nasty bitterness to even hold her tounge for just a little while.

I said really? And said good by.

Amazing, and she was laughing the whole time. It was erie.

Anyway there is a strange but funny one.

Revvo.

" But she could not see past her own nasty bitterness to even hold her tongue for just a little while. " Revvo.

A lot of girls here view themselves as victims and have "victimized" by a guy. Perhaps she was married and her husband stepped out on her. She will not be a pleasant SB for anyone and will use the poor sucker to get "back at" mankind.

This is one reason why I like the young, inexperienced singles. They frequently are naive and have not been burned yet. But they are like moths flitting near that flame. Someday they will get too close.

Many of these girls have been through hard times. My little FB almost Nando 1 just got the living crap beat out of her by an acquaintance. She could have been seriously injured or worse by the lout. Fortunately he's off to jail. She was all beat up and still made it to her appointment. I wish I had unlimited funds to just bless someone like her for no other reason than she needs it. I would be a White Knight if I could.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2035200]This is one reason why I like the young, inexperienced singles. They frequently are naive and have not been burned yet. But they are like moths flitting near that flame. Someday they will get too close.[/QUOTE]Ditto that. But mostly they have been emotionally burned by some young guy or guys. Then they just stop dating for a while. Then it's on to a 60 year old SD for some real fun. God bless those jersey shore and thug types. They make our lives so fuckin easy.

Has anyone tried this site? Heard about from what I consider a failry reliable source. A search in my area shows a lot of girls, a few of whom I've seen on SA or SD4 M, but not all. I'm thinking about giving it a try but thought I'd see of anyone has any experience.

[QUOTE=Dsprdo;2035252]Has anyone tried this site? Heard about from what I consider a failry reliable source. A search in my area shows a lot of girls, a few of whom I've seen on SA or SD4 M, but not all. I'm thinking about giving it a try but thought I'd see of anyone has any experience.[/QUOTE]Have not heard of them down here. But sometimes the more obscure ones can have fewer lurkers and gameplayers hitting on the girls. But also could have fewer girls to pick from and maybe less GPS which can always be a plus.

By the way funny story my little Italian Princess was telling me on the lurkers front. She said that when she was on SDforme. She would get about 20 messages a day from douchebags who had not paid for a membership and they would put in the subject line their email and to call email them. Obviously not even paying for a membership. lol

And sometimes these douches would track her facebook down and contact her through there. And say things like you never emailed me back? SMH Another reason to keep your girls privacy secret also. If you start posting her pics around she could get stalked electronically.

Just an interesting story.

Revvo

[QUOTE=Revvo;2036159]Have not heard of them down here. But sometimes the more obscure ones can have fewer lurkers and gameplayers hitting on the girls. But also could have fewer girls to pick from and maybe less GPS which can always be a plus.

By the way funny story my little Italian Princess was telling me on the lurkers front. She said that when she was on SDforme. She would get about 20 messages a day from douchebags who had not paid for a membership and they would put in the subject line their email and to call email them. Obviously not even paying for a membership. lol

And sometimes these douches would track her facebook down and contact her through there. And say things like you never emailed me back? SMH Another reason to keep your girls privacy secret also. If you start posting her pics around she could get stalked electronically.

Just an interesting story.

Revvo[/QUOTE]Thats why I only post pictures I take myself that are not on any other sites. Or pics that were only taken for me.

[QUOTE=Dsprdo;2035252]Has anyone tried this site? Heard about from what I consider a failry reliable source. A search in my area shows a lot of girls, a few of whom I've seen on SA or SD4 M, but not all. I'm thinking about giving it a try but thought I'd see of anyone has any experience.[/QUOTE]Was on this site playing around after your post. Most of the profiles are very old with no recent activity. Definitely search the profiles before anyone pays for access. East TN, NW GA looks like a waste of time. Does not look like you can search by recent activity or by newest member close to you.

Just my 2 cents.

[QUOTE=Revvo;2036159]Have not heard of them down here. But sometimes the more obscure ones can have fewer lurkers and gameplayers hitting on the girls. But also could have fewer girls to pick from and maybe less GPS which can always be a plus.

By the way funny story my little Italian Princess was telling me on the lurkers front. She said that when she was on SDforme. She would get about 20 messages a day from douchebags who had not paid for a membership and they would put in the subject line their email and to call email them. Obviously not even paying for a membership. lol

And sometimes these douches would track her facebook down and contact her through there. And say things like you never emailed me back? SMH Another reason to keep your girls privacy secret also. If you start posting her pics around she could get stalked electronically.

Just an interesting story.

Revvo[/QUOTE]Not quite sure how a guy could send a message to a SB on SDforme if they (the guy) aren't a paying member. If the gal has a VIP membership, then you can send messages with any contact info in it anyways.

[QUOTE=DirtyDingus;2036827]Not quite sure how a guy could send a message to a SB on SDforme if they (the guy) aren't a paying member. If the gal has a VIP membership, then you can send messages with any contact info in it anyways.[/QUOTE]If you are not a gold member no girl will take you seriously.

[QUOTE=FredMoore;2025070]Yes Revvo, these stories keep us all going. It's interesting how the Blog ebbs and flows with significant players coming and going through. Lets' have a moment of silence for the great names who were or are still here. And it's great that so many new names are popping up. You Revvo have risen to the top of the productivity chart with Hollywood.

Remember: Lit (still here and moderating) the king of it all, Golf, F Scott (where are you man?) ,[/QUOTE]Yes, Literal2 when at the time the incarnation was Literal is the godfather of the board from the founding post on 12-26-2010. F Scott came on board and picked up the heavy lifting by heavy learning and heavy posting. As the result of this and a lot of joiners willing to try and see if it works this place became the Holy Grail of Sugar Babyhood all across the country just because the early days were made up of guys knowing nothing about this but willing to feel their way along with their fingers and post what works and what does not work, all by trial and error. That's why this place is what it is, and why this thread is chock full of good information what to do and what not to do, all here for the reading. All other SB boards to come along since are pretenders. I think I may have posted this before and that's because it's all true, even the part about Literal starting this thread on the Richmond board because he happened to be spending that night in Richmond. You can't make this stuff up.

Literal2 is our moderator now, of course, and performing in the background but Scott has been totally absent of late. I always worried about Scott, and don't know why. It's time to show up, Scott, so we know you're okay, so you read you are missed.

Fred, thanks for kick-starting me to say what needed to be said.

One year anniversary. She is a 10/10/9/8. Still 20. Probably average me about $$$$$$$$ a month this year. It's taken a year for her skill level to go from a 6 to an 8. And MMMV from week to week. But overall she is improving. I am hoping that 8 turns into a 9 by years end. And she is my GF so the e-level is high. And the per visit is also higher. We always plan for 8 days a month. But this month will only be 5.

Different girls satisfy different needs. She does cover a lot of bases, but not all of them. And she knows that.

Greetings All,

I hope this isn't a double post. I sent this yesterday afternoon, but it timed out asking me to login again. Since it still hasn't posted, here goes.

I have what I guess qualifies as a SB that I'll share and then look to the brethren for advice.

I introduced myself to the forum last September and as I was separating myself from the escort scene and preparing for the bowl my SO busted me with undeniable evidence. That was in October. After quenching the flames of her discovery and then laying low for a while I visited a UTR in December. She was 18, only escorting for a couple of months, had a handful of regulars, and expressed a desire to separate herself from that. She is 5'1", muscular spinner frame (think not quite cheerleader), latina, with a narrow apple bottom, and the most amazing see / the cups that I have ever seen in real life, maybe ever. I usually go for the be cups for perkiness, but hers naturally defy gravity. We hit it off right away. I would pay her donation on the way home after we hung out and went at each other for as long as I wanted to. She is what most of us look for, a gorgeous woman who doesn't know how beautiful and sexy she is. She complains about how guys are constantly hitting on her and giving her free things and then in the next breath claim to being a failure at being beautiful or sexy. At that time I would say 8/9/8/8. I continued seeing her regularly for the rest of December. By Jan 1, she had agreed to $650/ mo, two visits a week, which I broke down into weekly payments of $150 which I would sometimes give her on the first visit, sometimes the second. She would never ask for it. We developed more of a relationship. I got her motivated to continue with school, pushed her to find a job, taught her life lessons that she was ill prepared for, basically helped her out in any way that I could. She pared her regulars down to a couple. By the end of Jan, she had mentioned a couple of times that she felt strange taking money from me because that made it about "something other than hanging out". I took the hint. We talked about FWB, she brought it up, and then we never talked about money again. I just stopped giving it to her. She was fine with that, in fact I would get calls saying that she wanted to see me and get together for quickies along with our regular visits. At the end of Feb, she needed help with Mar rent and I gave her $250 to help out. That was it for Feb. She has room mates that know nothing about our relationship or her other activities. So with exception to her not having a place for us or a car, this is ideal. New rating 9/10/10/9. She is intelligent, just unprepared for the world. Her attitude is sweet and caring. We text everyday, usually extensively. She is always good about communicating. Everything is going great.

She has had issues with stalkers, exes who won't leave her alone, basically guys who are obsessed with her. I can see why. With her looks, attitude, and strong sex drive, who wouldn't be? We agreed to keep it light, not get too involved. She is more than a little paranoid. Every now and then she would, very frankly, ask me to reassure her that I wasn't falling in love with her. Of course I would always do so. She started to causally see someone her own age a few weeks ago. She just started a new job, finally. There are numerous things about me that she just hasn't asked me about, one of which being my age. She asked last week, and after I unsuccessfully tried to change the subject several times, I told her the truth. I probably should have lied. It turns out that she thought that I was about 15 years younger than I am. So on Monday, I stopped by her place to bring her some soup and hot tea because she has a cold. 5 min later, enter the problem.

I get a text from her saying that I'm wonderful, she can't put into words how much she appreciates what I've done for her, but she can tell that I like her too much and she wants to make sure that it doesn't end badly. I'm driving, so I called her to put her worries to rest, again. She then proceeds to tell me that we shouldn't see each other anymore because I'm falling for her and it will only get worse with time. When I protested and gave her logic she used the fact that I protested as proof that she was right. What?! Just when I think I've got that issue squared away, she tells me that even though her seeing the guy her own age isn't exclusive, she feels like she has two boyfriends and doesn't like it. Bottom line, we shouldn't see each other anymore. I sent a text when I got home saying that I thought she made a rash decision because we we're making plans to see each other while I was dropping off the food, then 5 min later pulling a 180 on me. I told her not to reply, think about it, and we would talk in a couple of days. She responded a couple of hours later telling me that she had thought about it before sending me the first text. I'm thinking she is just being young and skittish. Otherwise, why would she be making plans with me and then 5 min later, end it? We haven't communicated since Monday, which is a big deal considering how often we talk / text.

She really does need some guidance in her life at this time. She has no one that fits that bill. She is also putting too much credence in her newly acquired minimum wage job. I was planning on sending her a lengthy email on Monday about how good I am for her. That she needs my positive influence in her life. That while I care about her, it is still casual. She (like so many young girls) uses social media extensively and has left the security wide open. Yesterday she went out with girlfriends (when we had planned to get together) and had a lousy time. Today she is bored to death at home. I'm fighting the urge to contact her now instead of waiting. As we all know, timing is everything with this sort of situation. Unfortunately, I have no idea when and think its a crap shoot. She also has a banking issue with a deadline on the 21st that I'm considering trying to white knight. That would back fire on me if she already has it handled.

What would you do? If she is adamant about not seeing each other but still wants my assistance, (quite possible) would you go along with being a friend with only her benefitting from my knowledge? Regardless, if it goes south, I'll be kind and leave the door wide open for her to change her mind in the near future.

Thanks for listening and giving any insightful feedback.

HL.

Happy Lover. Quick question, I think I'm reading into the post that you believe that telling her your true age led to the arrangement going downhill and was thus a mistake? I think that's what you're saying but wasn't sure.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2039131]Happy Lover. Quick question, I think I'm reading into the post that you believe that telling her your true age led to the arrangement going downhill and was thus a mistake? I think that's what you're saying but wasn't sure.[/QUOTE]I don't know if it was a deciding factor, but I think it was a contributing factor. I think the main reason is her skittishness towards her perceived level of my involvement. But that's my best guess, who knows what may be going on in her head.

BTW gentlemen, I didn't realize just how long that was until I saw it in forum. I hope it's a decent read.

[QUOTE=HappyLover;2038698]
What would you do? If she is adamant about not seeing each other but still wants my assistance, HL.[/QUOTE]Like the boxing referee always states in the ring about rules, "protect yourself at ALL times". HL, it seems as though you may be leaving your left a little low and be apt to catch one on the chin here (emotionally). Sounds like your baby is somewhat excited at the prospects of being with a younger guy and from a completely unattached view I say "let her have her way". Be scarce and out of the picture, if things turn up bad for her or she ends up missing what you've been adding to the mix and she finds herself missing those things then let her come back to you.

This is easy to advise since I have no emotional attachment here, but it sounds like you've gotten into this pretty deep and that isn't usually a good idea. This has been evidenced by others here before but fortunately the feelings you have at the moment will pass. Wish you the best on getting thru this HL. V.

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[b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]This report was redacted or deleted to remove sections of the report that were [u]largely argumentative[/u]. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. [i]Thank You![/i]

Just because you say "Without sounding argumentive or judgemental" doesn't mean you can than be both argumentative and judgmental and it doesn't count.

A2[/blue]

Let her go, HL. I'm guessing she already has her mind made up and nothing you can say or do will sway her, at least not permanently. Let her experience whatever she will experience with her new younger guy. In the meantime, don't visit her, don't contact her, and look for new girls to take up the position she is vacating. Eventually chips may fall just right and she'll contact you looking to rekindle things. Or she may not ever contact you again, but you'll have new girls to keep yourself entertained. It sucks losing a good SB, but it happens. The best you can do is move on and find a good replacement as quickly as possible.

[QUOTE=FotoGuy1970;2039266]Let her go, HL. I'm guessing she already has her mind made up and nothing you can say or do will sway her, at least not permanently. Let her experience whatever she will experience with her new younger guy. In the meantime, don't visit her, don't contact her, and look for new girls to take up the position she is vacating. Eventually chips may fall just right and she'll contact you looking to rekindle things. Or she may not ever contact you again, but you'll have new girls to keep yourself entertained. It sucks losing a good SB, but it happens. The best you can do is move on and find a good replacement as quickly as possible.[/QUOTE]Never get attached to a SB..EVER. Just remember what she is and how easily she can be replaced.

[QUOTE=HappyLover;2038698]
What would you do? If she is adamant about not seeing each other but still wants my assistance, (quite possible) would you go along with being a friend with only her benefitting from my knowledge? Regardless, if it goes south, I'll be kind and leave the door wide open for her to change her mind in the near future.

Thanks for listening and giving any insightful feedback.

HL.[/QUOTE]Wait for her to call. Most likely she will (it could be in a few days or a few months, and maybe never), in the mean time start looking for her replacement. Do not call or txt or email for any reason.

Actually you did the right thing by controlling how things go. Fuck her. She was really just a classier type hooker, that's all. Don't feel bad. Don't worry about the cost of dinner and drinks, pussy costs money one way or another.

[QUOTE=Varoom;2039186]Like the boxing referee always states in the ring about rules, "protect yourself at ALL times". HL, it seems as though you may be leaving your left a little low and be apt to catch one on the chin here (emotionally). Sounds like your baby is somewhat excited at the prospects of being with a younger guy and from a completely unattached view I say "let her have her way". Be scarce and out of the picture, if things turn up bad for her or she ends up missing what you've been adding to the mix and she finds herself missing those things then let her come back to you.

This is easy to advise since I have no emotional attachment here, but it sounds like you've gotten into this pretty deep and that isn't usually a good idea. This has been evidenced by others here before but fortunately the feelings you have at the moment will pass. Wish you the best on getting thru this HL. V.[/QUOTE]You're probably right. My guard may be down a bit, but there is no fear of a TKO. One way or another it'll come out in the wash.

To Hollywood and Foto.

I agree with the advice to let her contact me first. Chasing someone usually only makes them run. The way it was left though, I do need to contact her one more time to make sure the door is open for her to feel comfortable in contacting me. I don't know if she thinks that I'm angry with her or not. If she does, she would never contact me regardless. Anything to avoid a potential conflict or denial. It's just a matter of what to say, and when. Still working on that one.

[QUOTE=GetLost;2039323]Actually you did the right thing by controlling how things go. Fuck her. She was really just a classier type hooker, that's all. Don't feel bad. Don't worry about the cost of dinner and drinks, pussy costs money one way or another.[/QUOTE]I think your response was intended for me, and if so yeah, I agree with you; control of the situation is the most important thing. It doesn't matter that my record of success was blemished, it would have happened eventually anyway. And yes classier call girl type is the impression I got as well. Wish I could have worked it out with her on the price though.

Oddly enough my post that you responded to has disappeared without a moderator comment put in place. I sent the moderator a question inquiring if I did something wrong (it was a bit long, but other than that I'm unsure what happened) but have not heard back as of yet. I may attempt to repost about what happened on the date once I learn what the issue was. I think learning from each other's experience here, positive and negative is what this thread is all about.

[QUOTE=HappyLover;2039157]I don't know if it was a deciding factor, but I think it was a contributing factor. I think the main reason is her skittishness towards her perceived level of my involvement. But that's my best guess, who knows what may be going on in her head.

BTW gentlemen, I didn't realize just how long that was until I saw it in forum. I hope it's a decent read.[/QUOTE]I too am often mistaken for being 15 years younger, and I have experienced age discrimination in regular dating situations (I recently wrote about an experience where a girl half my age flirted with me in a nightclub, got to the point of kissing even, before asking my age then bolted after she learned it, and there was no question what killed the buzz). It is a shitty feeling to experience.

In my online profiles I tend to put my age in 7-12 years younger. The biggest reason has more to do with privacy than increasing my marketability to SBs. I've seen some sites that actually reveal the full DOB you put in, which I think is nuts. Then as far as maintaining the lie with the SB I handle that on a case by case basis. If they ask, I usually tell them I am whatever age the site says I am just to remove an element that might make them uncomfortable. Normally I see no reason to give them my real age or anything else that would help them, or one of their boyfriends or SD's identify me or make life difficult for me.

Recently I broke that trend only because I met a SPECTACULAR SB, and I voluntarily told her my real age and reasons for putting false info in my profile on the site over dinner, knowing it could possibly lessen her attraction for me. Fortunately in that case, it did not impact our chemistry which got better as the night went on (I'm going to write about this epic experience once I figure out why my last lengthy report went missing).

In fact, I later asked her what she liked best about me and she mentioned a few physical traits but also said she loved my openness, and straightforwardness.

So my point to this is that honesty about your age can work against you in many ways, so I say be careful who you give real info to. On the other hand maintaining lies is mental baggage to me, so if it's someone I think I might want to know beyond one or two dates I might just make things real early on and put all truths on the table.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2039973]I too am often mistaken for being 15 years younger, and I have experienced age discrimination in regular dating situations (I recently wrote about an experience where a girl half my age flirted with me in a nightclub, got to the point of kissing even, before asking my age then bolted after she learned it, and there was no question what killed the buzz). It is a shitty feeling to experience.

In my online profiles I tend to put my age in 7-12 years younger. The biggest reason has more to do with privacy than increasing my marketability to SBs. [/QUOTE]I was actually surprised by how surprised she was at my age. I'm envious of you for being mistaken for being much younger than you are. This is an exception to the rule for me. When people try to guess my age, they usually hit it dead on. In setting up online profiles, I usually only knock off a couple of years for privacy sake. I'd knock off more, but I didn't think it would be believable until now.

For those with an SO, you can't post your actual photos. Where do you find your look a like snap shots? No photo diminishes interest. A photo that is too far off will net you a SB that may put be off at the m&g. It seems like a fine line.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2039973]I too am often mistaken for being 15 years younger, and I have experienced age discrimination in regular dating situations (I recently wrote about an experience where a girl half my age flirted with me in a nightclub, got to the point of kissing even, before asking my age then bolted after she learned it, and there was no question what killed the buzz). It is a shitty feeling to experience.

In my online profiles I tend to put my age in 7-12 years younger. The biggest reason has more to do with privacy than increasing my marketability to SBs. I've seen some sites that actually reveal the full DOB you put in, which I think is nuts. Then as far as maintaining the lie with the SB I handle that on a case by case basis. If they ask, I usually tell them I am whatever age the site says I am just to remove an element that might make them uncomfortable. Normally I see no reason to give them my real age or anything else that would help them, or one of their boyfriends or SD's identify me or make life difficult for me.

Recently I broke that trend only because I met a SPECTACULAR SB, and I voluntarily told her my real age and reasons for putting false info in my profile on the site over dinner, knowing it could possibly lessen her attraction for me. Fortunately in that case, it did not impact our chemistry which got better as the night went on (I'm going to write about this epic experience once I figure out why my last lengthy report went missing).

In fact, I later asked her what she liked best about me and she mentioned a few physical traits but also said she loved my openness, and straightforwardness.

So my point to this is that honesty about your age can work against you in many ways, so I say be careful who you give real info to. On the other hand maintaining lies is mental baggage to me, so if it's someone I think I might want to know beyond one or two dates I might just make things real early on and put all truths on the table.[/QUOTE]I look good for my age and routinely get mistaken for being 45. I am 60 and make sure every girl knows that. I mostly date 20 year olds and they think its hot. The whole salt and pepper thing. The daddy / baby dynamic, etc. Many more reasons. But no reason to lie.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2040027]I look good for my age and routinely get mistaken for being 45. I am 60 and make sure every girl knows that. I mostly date 20 year olds and they think its hot. The whole salt and pepper thing. The daddy / baby dynamic, etc. Many more reasons. But no reason to lie.[/QUOTE]I think those who are either married or in a committed relationship have more reason to hide their age and names. But then again I believe the girls have the same right to privacy. I never ask them their last names, where they work, how old they are, etc.

Twas an incredibly busy week. My meeting with the young single mom spinner went well and we progressed to FC this week. She is black and does not make eye contact which is one of those cultural things in the south, have to work on that. What I don't have to work on is skills. The best, and I mean best BBBJ I can remember, soft and slow designed to tease me not make me pop. She was having fun, had to pull her off to move on. At the end of it she thanked me for her "new favorite position". Nothing special but guessing it means she does not have a lot of experience. For my part, she was good in all the positions $ for the visit, emailed today wanting to see me again Monday. Here is a pic...

The Columbian left me bruised battered and satisfied again on Wed. Hard to say no to someone that truly loves to fuck, but she needs someone 10 years younger than me.

New potential married mom, met and talked. She wants adventure, wanted an allowance of $50 per week. I don't do allowances but my math was really good on that one. Supposed to meet for FC next week.

Had an appointment with the 10 for today but my SO woke up horny and got hers so I cancelled. Told the 10 I was expecting more than she was giving and she said she would do better. Set for Tuesday.

[QUOTE=HappyLover;2038698] What would you do? HL.[/QUOTE]HL, this situation has run off the tracks at so many levels. The age thing is way out of balance. Take your age difference and play it forward to a woman that much older than you and see what you see. That's what she sees. There are likely differences in background here that cannot be overcome except in the short term. This is not something feelings can be based on. HL makes no mention of a cultural difference yet a cultural difference is often present. These things don't necessarily get in the way of a one-night stand or maybe short-term, but HL is looking more long term. HL is clearly invested in something his game cannot produce on it's own and that's asking a lot when it comes to more than a few encounters.

What do I think HL should do? He should back off and spend his time reading this board from Post No. 1 to now and take notes. He will see what ideas work and what doesn't and he'll see his ideas in the group that doesn't work, and more importantly, why. And he'll see posters making the same mistakes over and over and refusing to learn. He'll see himself in some of those posts. He'll see his future from being on their path.

So I'm not being cryptic in the above, stop seeing this girl and read the darn board from start to finish to become smarter. And never fall for a girl it takes money to meet in the first place. And never try to fix anybody. Always keep your real identity away from the girls.

The only proper use of pay for play is to get a girl on the quick and for the short term we could not get any other way and enjoy reliving the memory. Then get another and do the same. This board has the "22 Rules of Street Mongering." If we had 22 Rules of Sugarbabyhood this statement should make the list (if I do say so myself) (hold the applause). I feel that strongly about it.

[QUOTE=JeezLizard;2040107]I think those who are either married or in a committed relationship have more reason to hide their age and names. But then again I believe the girls have the same right to privacy. I never ask them their last names, where they work, how old they are, etc.[/QUOTE]Married or single. Definitely two different games. I am sure I would get busted as my secret agent skills are sorely lacking. And actually was busted multiple times when I was married.

[QUOTE=HollywoodGuy;2040174]Married or single. Definitely two different games. I am sure I would get busted as my secret agent skills are sorely lacking. And actually was busted multiple times when I was married.[/QUOTE]I always just assume she wants the same level of anonymity that I do (as someone who has a long-time girlfriend that I don't want to lose). I figure it never hurts to start out with anonymity, and open up to the person gradually as mutual trust is gained.

However, in HL's case for example, it can become difficult to know whether to reveal your age so late in the arrangement, after already knowing her for so long and banging her many times. I would be thinking "why is she asking now?". Seems almost like fishing for a reason to end it. So, in that case I'd say maybe its just a calculated risk that we have to decide for ourselves how to handle based on our own situation or expectations.

To show how broad the spectrum can be -- I had one recently who impressed me so much, in initial communication and in the dinner M&G, that I just volunteered my age to see if it impacted her interest in me. It didn't phase her, I was glad.

However, another recent date impressed me in the initial communication, but in the M&G I got a visceral feeling that I need to be careful, just based on some of the questions she was asking me. Later on I was able to find this girls FB profile, and realized something is seriously wrong with her. Lots of morbid photos involving murder, suicide, revenge against males, etc. What was scarier was that all of the weird multimedia she was putting up seem to be occurring only in the past several months, like this was something new (signs of potential mental illness setting in maybe). So I was really glad I never gave that girl my real name or age.

[QUOTE=Varoom;2039186]Like the boxing referee always states in the ring about rules, "protect yourself at ALL times". HL, it seems as though you may be leaving your left a little low and be apt to catch one on the chin here (emotionally). Sounds like your baby is somewhat excited at the prospects of being with a younger guy and from a completely unattached view I say "let her have her way". Be scarce and out of the picture, if things turn up bad for her or she ends up missing what you've been adding to the mix and she finds herself missing those things then let her come back to you.

This is easy to advise since I have no emotional attachment here, but it sounds like you've gotten into this pretty deep and that isn't usually a good idea. This has been evidenced by others here before but fortunately the feelings you have at the moment will pass. Wish you the best on getting thru this HL. V.[/QUOTE]Varoom has some really good words here. Remember there is nothing you can do to compel her impress her or convince to want to see you. But there is a lot you can do to keep her from seeing you. Primarily things like trying to compel her convince her or impress her. It s literally like Kryptonite to a woman.

At the same time I hate to see such a quality piece of ass go. But you need to remember they all go eventually. I believe that you are much more emotionally involved. Than you are willing to admit. Take it from someone who has been there. It sucks.

Now I do have a story about my first of only two ATFs and how she left me cold. What I did was simple. First no contact for two months. No questions no hellos nothing. Then I slowly started sending her little snippets of my fun and interesting life that did not involve her just like nothing was different and not talking or communicating with her in any other way. Just a picture of me in some other city or at a sporting event or having fun with friends. Maybe a few pics with some hot women. Just being fun and interesting. After about two months of this she called me. We got back together and I acted like nothing had changed. It did not last though they never really do. She may come back to you. It's almost guaranteed that the young guy she is interested in will fuck it up with her and she may call you. But don't hole your breath. Hot women have so many options to choose from.

Like was said above keep your guard up. And stop trying to save her and help her. If you do talk with her tell her don't ask what you want from her not how you can help her. Don't kiss her ass she will appreciate it. Believe me. She does not want some older guy bringing her soup. She wants a man that is unmoved if she leaves him. And goes on with his own life maybe even with another woman. She wants a man that does not care if she walks because he knows these things do not last. Understand that I have played your game many times before and it is a losing hand.

Good luck and find some new POTs.

Revvo.