News and Media Reports

[QUOTE=Randyman1501;2045918]Can't help but notice that while CPD and others have their usual success rate going after bogus victimless crimes that they still don't appear to have made any arrests in the murder of Jessica Revelee.

It's kind of hard to believe they can't find anyone, given that you don't do a message murder like that (leaving her body in the middle of McMicken) without the expectation that plenty of people will know who sent the message. Apparently, the message was enough to intimidate anyone from talking. But there have to be enough people who know what's going on to give them what they need.

But what they'll do is arrest some hapless dufus in an SUV from the suburbs who pulls over and propositions one of their obvious decoys, then call that a response that makes the streets safer from the likes of drug dealers killing prostitutes. Or they'll do their usual roundup of SWs on outstanding warrants and kick them back out on the streets in 24 hours, just like they did Jessica when she went to them for help before she was murdered.[/QUOTE]I'm in no way close to this case but I do have several friends in law enforcement, and I'm telling you this, very seldom do they not know who did a crime like murder, murder is so heinous that somebody will tell the police something. In this case I'm willing to bet they know who did it or have a very good idea, but they don't have proof. And if you don't have proof you don't have a case.

[QUOTE=GoneTM;2045321]Cell phone = criminal tool. Condom = criminal tool. Car (how'd he get there?) = criminal tool. Shoes (he had to walk in) = criminal tool. Wallet (carried the cash) = criminal tool. Zipper concealed his criminal tool... What a load of crap. I can't stand "add on" charges like that. Our system is so messed up.[/QUOTE]The add on bullshit is to create more charges, which in turn allows the local attorneys to charge more money, many of them charge per felony, or per misdemeanor. They are all working together. Then, due to the added cost, it causes more people to take a plea when some of the charges are dropped, which means the state doesn't have to make their case. Wonderful system.

Cheech.

[QUOTE=Cheech1;2046278]The add on bullshit is to create more charges, which in turn allows the local attorneys to charge more money, many of them charge per felony, or per misdemeanor. They are all working together. Then, due to the added cost, it causes more people to take a plea when some of the charges are dropped, which means the state doesn't have to make their case. Wonderful system.

Cheech.[/QUOTE]Never thought of it that way, but you make a great point and it sounds correct.

If I'm a dreamer guess what.

I'm about discussion, massages, conversation. Someone on the other end asking what options I have planned and it gets a return statement of a back rub.

The words never will utter from me. It's only time spent, the investment many dreams later is when the call to action is even considered, and the way I ask is "what do guys normally ask for when in your company?

Follow the SWIM design and most times it can revel as a safety pin that holds the diaper on.

Somebody break down my statement above and tell me how it's not bulletproof.

[QUOTE=NKY747;2046648]If I'm a dreamer guess what.

I'm about discussion, massages, conversation. Someone on the other end asking what options I have planned and it gets a return statement of a back rub.

The words never will utter from me. It's only time spent, the investment many dreams later is when the call to action is even considered, and the way I ask is "what do guys normally ask for when in your company?

Follow the SWIM design and most times it can revel as a safety pin that holds the diaper on.

Somebody break down my statement above and tell me how it's not bulletproof.[/QUOTE]I walk in. Most give me a hug and a peck on the cheek. I quickly proceed to check the room. I mean closets, behind the shower curtain, look out the window, and then put my ear to the door. The girls are always pretty cool and say "make sure you are comfortable and look anywhere you want." Which I appreciate. I then look at the lady and say "I am good, are you?" I then get naked. I put my pant on a flat surface so I can fold them in half. I bring out the rose and lay in on my pants and then fold my pants over the rose. We do the deed. As I put my pants back on the rose falls out. I ignore this and dress and leave. Give her a hug and a kiss and thank her. I'm gone. If they mention the rose at any time I sternly ask "why would you do that?" If they insist on the rose I leave and call another florist. The class acts never have a problem with this. So tell me where the holes are. If there is surveillance, they will never hear me talk about the rose, I am also very verbal and direct in letting my business partner know that I do not want to leave with any juices in my lower extremities to could possibly be released during an accidental nocturnal emission. You get the point. In regards to your statement, yes you put the onus on them as far as incrimination goes.

[QUOTE=NKY747;2046648]If I'm a dreamer guess what.

I'm about discussion, massages, conversation. Someone on the other end asking what options I have planned and it gets a return statement of a back rub.

The words never will utter from me. It's only time spent, the investment many dreams later is when the call to action is even considered, and the way I ask is "what do guys normally ask for when in your company?

Follow the SWIM design and most times it can revel as a safety pin that holds the diaper on.

Somebody break down my statement above and tell me how it's not bulletproof.[/QUOTE]SUCKIE, FUCKIE. . . FIVE DOLLAR! Go to Jail, Go Directly to Jail, Do NOT Pass Go, Do NOT Collect $200!

I'm going to share something with you that a very, very close friend of mine once told me a long, long time ago concerning this very specific topic. Now this very, very close friend of mine was in the LE field for more than 34 years before he/she retired, so I have to assume that he/she knows exactly what he/she was talking about, and you would be wise, IMHO, to assume so too.

In order for a Suspect to be arrested AND convicted, the Suspect MUST say what they want, that is, some type of Sex Act AND also offer Money. BOTH ELEMENTS of the alleged crime have to come from the Suspect in order for the Suspect to be arrested AND convicted for solicitation or whatever the local jurisdiction has codified it as terminology-wise.

So to help new, young LEOs remember the RULE, my friend explained to me that every Police Academy in the country, to the best of his/her knowledge and belief, used to teach a short, memorable saying -- SUCKIE, FUCKIE. . . FIVE DOLLAR! (it's meant to be said with an Asian accent, lol) -- the SUCKIE, FUCKIE part of the saying was to help LEOs remember that a statement relating to a SEX ACT was REQUIRED to be uttered from a Suspect's lips, AND the FIVE DOLLAR part of the saying was to help LEOs remember that a statement relating to offering a Payment of any type or kind for the requested SEX ACT was also REQUIRED to be uttered from the same Suspect's lips.

Accordingly, the bottom line is that a LEO canNOT offer to perform any SEX ACT and/or state the PRICE for the Sex Act. If they do either one of those things, then it's legally entrapment (pursuant to US Supreme Court case law) and, theoretically, the criminal case is supposed to fail, that is, either be dismissed or the Suspect should be acquitted. And that's why, if you watch COPS, Police Women of Cincinnati, etc., etc., etc., on TV and they show any "STING" operation relating to this SPECIFIC TOPIC, the undercover LEO always asks the Suspect, "What do you want?" or "What are you looking for?" or something to that effect HOPING TO GET the Suspect to NAME THE SEX ACT they want, AND then the undercover LEO will promptly NEXT ASK the Suspect something very generic akin to, "How much you got?" or "What's it worth to you?" HOPING TO GET the Suspect to talk about money. Once the TWO REQUIREMENTS of SUCKIE, FUCKIE. . . FIVE DOLLAR! -- have been met, you then always see the take down occur and the Suspect is hauled away to jail for booking and incarceration or citation and release.

SUCKIE, FUCKIE. . . FIVE DOLLAR! -- works in reverse, too, meaning that any provider who offers any SEX ACT for any type of Payment, is usually arrested and charged with solicitation as well.

And that's why the so-called LEO check is nothing more than an excuse for two people to grope one another, LOL! By the time any so-called LEO check is typically performed, it is usually much too late, meaning the SUCKIE, FUCKIE. . . FIVE DOLLAR! Rule has already been realized and the provider or monger have already been placed under arrest! And the same thing goes for those stupid so-called legal disclaimers that some providers post -- they're laughable and fucking worthless. The only real purpose those idiotic disclaimers serve is to antagonize and challenge LEOs. Think about it, if you or your friend was a LEO, wouldn't you attempt to catch the dumbasses who were challenging your authority with their stupid Philadelphia shithouse lawyer antics? It's why I NEVER visit a provider who is that stupid to post those silly disclaimers, that is, I figure they will be the first targets of a LE sting.

Lastly, my friend also told me whether an undercover LEO is permitted to get into your car is usually a matter of department policy ONLY, meaning there are no laws that govern it, which further means that it varies from LE department to LE department. The good news, though, is that the vast majority of LE departments expressly forbid an undercover LEO to get into your car in "prostitution" stings for officer safety reasons. Even though my friend does NOT know of any particular LE departments in the Greater Cincinnati area that allows an undercover LEO to get into your car, he/she definitely knows and said that Cincinnati PD expressly forbids it.

--SA007.

PS -- My friend also said that he/she has no idea about Hawaii law and why/how LEOs get away with engaging in sex with providers before arresting them. He/she added that the providers are apparently getting fucked at least twice each time they get arrested in Hawaii.

Don't want to give the newbies false hope. As you said, your friends advice was long, long ago. Let's get a little more current, like within the last three or four years. My extremely close friend had quite a different encounter. His uncle gave him a nice pair of bracelets then gave him a tour of his big house. My friend shared video and cd of the encounter and all phone calls prior to the meet with the provider...that's right...a sting! I made a transcript for my friends attorney. Let me be clear here. Not one word mentioning of any sex act or money in exchange for it by my friend or by uncles niece. My friends name and pic was put in the newspaper with his uncles reasoning for it. Damage done, my friend, his family totally embarrassed, among other things, by the whole deal. I won't divulge any other details pertaining to it. So my take on it is this... If your uncle wants you...he'll get you.even if he has to fabricate reason. Stay safe and utr...

KT.

[QUOTE=SecretAgent007;2049268]SUCKIE, FUCKIE. . . FIVE DOLLAR! Go to Jail, Go Directly to Jail, Do NOT Pass Go, Do NOT Collect $200!

I'm going to share something with you that a very, very close friend of mine once told me a long, long time ago concerning this very specific topic. Now this very, very close friend of mine was in the LE field for more than 34 years before he/she retired, so I have to assume that he/she knows exactly what he/she was talking about, and you would be wise, IMHO, to assume so too.

In order for a Suspect to be arrested AND convicted, the Suspect MUST say what they want, that is, some type of Sex Act AND also offer Money. BOTH ELEMENTS of the alleged crime have to come from the Suspect in order for the Suspect to be arrested AND convicted for solicitation or whatever the local jurisdiction has codified it as terminology-wise.

So to help new, young LEOs remember the RULE, my friend explained to me that every Police Academy in the country, to the best of his/her knowledge and belief, used to teach a short, memorable saying -- SUCKIE, FUCKIE. . . FIVE DOLLAR! (it's meant to be said with an Asian accent, lol) -- the SUCKIE, FUCKIE part of the saying was to help LEOs remember that a statement relating to a SEX ACT was REQUIRED to be uttered from a Suspect's lips, AND the FIVE DOLLAR part of the saying was to help LEOs remember that a statement relating to offering a Payment of any type or kind for the requested SEX ACT was also REQUIRED to be uttered from the same Suspect's lips.

Accordingly, the bottom line is that a LEO canNOT offer to perform any SEX ACT and/or state the PRICE for the Sex Act. If they do either one of those things, then it's legally entrapment (pursuant to US Supreme Court case law) and, theoretically, the criminal case is supposed to fail, that is, either be dismissed or the Suspect should be acquitted. And that's why, if you watch COPS, Police Women of Cincinnati, etc., etc., etc., on TV and they show any "STING" operation relating to this SPECIFIC TOPIC, the undercover LEO always asks the Suspect, "What do you want?" or "What are you looking for?" or something to that effect HOPING TO GET the Suspect to NAME THE SEX ACT they want, AND then the undercover LEO will promptly NEXT ASK the Suspect something very generic akin to, "How much you got?" or "What's it worth to you?" HOPING TO GET the Suspect to talk about money. Once the TWO REQUIREMENTS of SUCKIE, FUCKIE. . . FIVE DOLLAR! -- have been met, you then always see the take down occur and the Suspect is hauled away to jail for booking and incarceration or citation and release.

SUCKIE, FUCKIE. . . FIVE DOLLAR! -- works in reverse, too, meaning that any provider who offers any SEX ACT for any type of Payment, is usually arrested and charged with solicitation as well.

And that's why the so-called LEO check is nothing more than an excuse for two people to grope one another, LOL! By the time any so-called LEO check is typically performed, it is usually much too late, meaning the SUCKIE, FUCKIE. . . FIVE DOLLAR! Rule has already been realized and the provider or monger have already been placed under arrest! And the same thing goes for those stupid so-called legal disclaimers that some providers post -- they're laughable and fucking worthless. The only real purpose those idiotic disclaimers serve is to antagonize and challenge LEOs. Think about it, if you or your friend was a LEO, wouldn't you attempt to catch the dumbasses who were challenging your authority with their stupid Philadelphia shithouse lawyer antics? It's why I NEVER visit a provider who is that stupid to post those silly disclaimers, that is, I figure they will be the first targets of a LE sting.

Lastly, my friend also told me whether an undercover LEO is permitted to get into your car is usually a matter of department policy ONLY, meaning there are no laws that govern it, which further means that it varies from LE department to LE department. The good news, though, is that the vast majority of LE departments expressly forbid an undercover LEO to get into your car in "prostitution" stings for officer safety reasons. Even though my friend does NOT know of any particular LE departments in the Greater Cincinnati area that allows an undercover LEO to get into your car, he/she definitely knows and said that Cincinnati PD expressly forbids it.

--SA007.

PS -- My friend also said that he/she has no idea about Hawaii law and why/how LEOs get away with engaging in sex with providers before arresting them. He/she added that the providers are apparently getting fucked at least twice each time they get arrested in Hawaii.[/QUOTE]

There was a recent case in Dayton where a poor guy has been smeared all over TV and in the newspapers ruining his marriage and life, only for the charges to be dropped. Damage already done and there is nothing the guy can do since all they reported on was an ALLEGED crime.

[QUOTE=Ktom13;2049454]Don't want to give the newbies false hope. As you said, your friends advice was long, long ago. Let's get a little more current, like within the last three or four years. My extremely close friend had quite a different encounter. His uncle gave him a nice pair of bracelets then gave him a tour of his big house. My friend shared video and cd of the encounter and all phone calls prior to the meet with the provider...that's right...a sting! I made a transcript for my friends attorney. Let me be clear here. Not one word mentioning of any sex act or money in exchange for it by my friend or by uncles niece. My friends name and pic was put in the newspaper with his uncles reasoning for it. Damage done, my friend, his family totally embarrassed, among other things, by the whole deal. I won't divulge any other details pertaining to it. So my take on it is this... If your uncle wants you...he'll get you.even if he has to fabricate reason. Stay safe and utr...

KT.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Ktom13;2049454]If your uncle wants you...he'll get you.even if he has to fabricate reason.[/QUOTE]That's pretty much the bottom line. Uncle operates exactly the same as organized crime. The only difference is your uncle is a lot more organized with a lot more paperwork.

Gentlemen,

Many of you mention that I will reach out to lawyer or I will call the lawyer if in trouble so I assume that you all know some lawyers. But I have never dealt with any lawyers so far in my life (except real estate) so anyone care to share some names so I can store in my phone so I can reach out if I ever get into trouble.

I also wondered that whom will I call if I am given this " I have the right to One call" courtesy. Any info related to this appreciated.

[QUOTE=Ktom13;2049454]Don't want to give the newbies false hope. As you said, your friends advice was long, long ago. Let's get a little more current, like within the last three or four years. My extremely close friend had quite a different encounter. His uncle gave him a nice pair of bracelets then gave him a tour of his big house. My friend shared video and cd of the encounter and all phone calls prior to the meet with the provider...that's right...a sting! I made a transcript for my friends attorney. Let me be clear here. Not one word mentioning of any sex act or money in exchange for it by my friend or by uncles niece. My friends name and pic was put in the newspaper with his uncles reasoning for it. Damage done, my friend, his family totally embarrassed, among other things, by the whole deal. I won't divulge any other details pertaining to it. So my take on it is this... If your uncle wants you...he'll get you.even if he has to fabricate reason. Stay safe and utr...

KT.[/QUOTE]NO, MY FRIENDS, TIMES HAVE NOT CHANGED ONE IOTA INSOFAR AS...the applicability of the SUCKIE, FUCKIE. . .FIVE DOLLAR! Rule is concerned regarding "SOLICITATION". There is NO FALSE HOPE being offered here.

The SUCKIE, FUCKIE. . .FIVE DOLLAR! Rule is as applicable TODAY as it ever was, PERIOD. As I already said, there is NO FALSE HOPE being offered here. Without all the details of Ktom13's friend's case, there is no way to analyze what happened, and since we do NOT even know where it happened (as in what jurisdiction), the alleged offense canNOT be properly compared to the element requirements of any applicable statutes.

I would venture to guess that Ktom13's friend did NOT understand how he was violating one or more statutes by what he allegedly did, and Ktom13's friend probably still does NOT fully understand it. And so this is exactly how misinformation gets spread as Gospel, IMHO.

For example, if what happened to Ktom13's friend occurred in Ohio, and if his friend thought he was being clever and could outsmart his Uncle by not talking about SEXUAL ACTIVITY FOR HIRE by alternatively just showing or pointing to Pics or Movies of SEXUAL ACTIVITY, then Ktom13's friend made a significant mistake by severely misinterpreting Ohio's statute prohibiting "Solicitation." And if NO MONEY (OR OTHER CONSIDERATION) was offered by Ktom13's friend for SEXUAL ACTIVITY, then Ktom13's friend was most likely charged with something other than simple "Solicitation".

To know whether the SUCKIE, FUCKIE. . .FIVE DOLLAR! Rule is applicable to a violation of any particular statute (law), a careful word-for-word, line-by-line reading of the statute is absolutely REQUIRED, and if the person doing the word-for-word, line-by-line reading of a statute has a READING COMPREHENSION Problem, or does NOT fully understand legalese, then it would be so much better for that person to get someone else who does NOT have a READING COMPREHENSION Problem, and who fully understands legalese, to carefully explain to them what the statute means -- and whether the conduct the person is contemplating would violate the statute.

The relevant part of the SOLICITATION statute in Ohio for purposes of this discussion can be found in the Ohio Revised Code at "2907.24 Soliciting" which expressly states: "(A) No person shall solicit another to engage with such other person in sexual activity for hire." The statute has TWO elements or requirements that must be met in order for the crime of "Solicitation" to be committed in violation of the law. The SUCKIE, FUCKIE. . .FIVE DOLLAR! Rule is entirely, 100-percent applicable to Ohio's statute prohibiting "Solicitation." The "SUCKIE, FUCKIE" part directly relates to the "sexual activity" wording aka element, and the "FIVE DOLLAR" part directly relates to the "hire" wording aka element.

Therefore, if Ktom13's friend was showing Pics or Movies of Sexual Activity (without actually talking about it), that would still very likely meet part-1 of the solicitation element requirement because it would be pretty clear what Ktom's friend wanted, but some kind of an offer of compensation also has to be made in order to meet part-2 of the solicitation element requirement. In other words, you could technically ask others to engage in sex with you all day, every day and as long as you never intended to "hire" them to perform the "sexual activity" that you were soliciting, then it does NOT violate the Ohio "Solicitation" statute -- otherwise every husband and boyfriend in Ohio would be in violation (even though, in reality, there is no such thing as free pussy -- it all costs us in some way, shape, or form, LOL).

However, depending on the precise circumstances of who, what, when, where, why and how you ask another to engage in sexual activity (not for hire) with you, there could be laws other than "Solicitation" violated so you have to be very careful. As a hypothetical example, asking someone under 18-yrs-old for sex in Ohio under any circumstances is very likely going to get you into very serious trouble (this is NOT necessarily technically and legally correct insofar as the age of consent is concerned but I will NOT cloud the issue by giving a more technically and legally correct example since I do NOT want to see a bunch of guys get into trouble when they misinterpret what I could have written that would have been technically and legally correct).

To be VERY CLEAR, the SUCKIE, FUCKIE. . .FIVE DOLLAR! Rule applies to "SOLICITATION" and NOT necessarily to any or all of the other potential SEX OFFENSE statutes (e.g., it does NOT apply when an adult person streams images of himself / herself masturbating to a minor person since that is a totally different type of sex offense, and a federal crime, as well).

About the ONLY thing I agree with in Ktom13's post is, "if your Uncle wants you...he'll get you, even if he has to fabricate!" It's very sad, but in some cases, it's very true -- and in a majority of cases the alleged facts are usually spun, that is, twisted, distorted, and exaggerated, to various degrees, against the accused because that is a large part of what LE has evolved into today (and it's the end result of the government dumbing-down standards across the board for all kinds of various occupations so that people who were once NOT qualified could suddenly and magically become qualified for various jobs).

AND YES, I fully agree, the Uncle will sometimes retaliate and expose you and your activities to embarrass you and your family, even though you have NOT technically committed any crimes, simply for technically outsmarting your Uncle. If/when that were to ever happen to me, I would immediately seek legal counsel to explore the possibilities of promptly filing what is referred to as a "Section 1983" action in Federal court for the Uncle's violations of your civil rights, false light, defamation, etc., etc., etc.! Since the cat would already be out of the bag, so to speak, I would have to take my turn at retaliation by suing the fuck out of those stupid bastards!

--SA007.

[QUOTE=LuckyLuke;2049537]Gentlemen,

Many of you mention that I will reach out to lawyer or I will call the lawyer if in trouble so I assume that you all know some lawyers. But I have never dealt with any lawyers so far in my life (except real estate) so anyone care to share some names so I can store in my phone so I can reach out if I ever get into trouble.

I also wondered that whom will I call if I am given this " I have the right to One call" courtesy. Any info related to this appreciated.[/QUOTE]In almost every jurisdiction, you should be able to find an ex-prosecutor or ex-assistant prosecutor who is in private practice. That is who I would seriously consider interviewing and potentially hiring if I needed an attorney in a criminal matter for several reasons including, but not limited to: (1) he / she would already know how the local Prosecutor's Office operates; (2) he / she should already know the prosecutor and assistant prosecutors in that office, as well as all or nearly all of the local judges (so they already have established credibility in most instances); and (3) who they know (as well as who they blow) is very important in these types of situations, IMHO.

And I also think it is very prudent to already have an attorney "on-board" and in your corner before any actual need arises!

--SA007.

I more or less understand that if I say to someone, "How about $100 for x" I can be arrested. But what about situations which only *imply* exchanging $$ for goodies?

For example:

- LE arrests a provider / agency and they discover my information in the agency's database.

- A provider has keyed my address into her GPS.

- LE observes me entering a hotel room where a provider is working.

- A burner number with appointment-setting calls to various providers is traced to me.

Now, all of these scenarios reasonably prove that I have contacted providers, invited them to my home, visited them in motel rooms. Are these sufficient for arrest? Or would I be able to remain silent and rely on the "burden of proof" concept. (I.e.: It isn't illegal for me to visit a woman in a hotel room--but if the woman is working as a provider, is guilt "assumable" even if not specifically proven?) In other words, at what point does reasonable assumption override a strict need for proof?

Anyone?

[QUOTE=ToddCincy;2050020]I more or less understand that if I say to someone, "How about $100 for x" I can be arrested. But what about situations which only *imply* exchanging $$ for goodies?

For example:

- LE arrests a provider / agency and they discover my information in the agency's database.

- A provider has keyed my address into her GPS.

- LE observes me entering a hotel room where a provider is working.

- A burner number with appointment-setting calls to various providers is traced to me.

Now, all of these scenarios reasonably prove that I have contacted providers, invited them to my home, visited them in motel rooms. Are these sufficient for arrest? Or would I be able to remain silent and rely on the "burden of proof" concept. (I.e.: It isn't illegal for me to visit a woman in a hotel room--but if the woman is working as a provider, is guilt "assumable" even if not specifically proven?) In other words, at what point does reasonable assumption override a strict need for proof?

Anyone?[/QUOTE]Is the threshold in a criminal case. The testimony of a provider against your own word would not, IMHO be sufficient for a finding of guilty or to even bring a case against someone. You could say you were there and got cold feet and didn't follow through and whose to say otherwise. The burden of proof falls squarely on the State to make their case. A civil case on the other hand only needs a preponderance of evidence. I.e. 51%.

Yes SA007 you'd make someone a good lawyer, maybe my friend should've had you in his corner. Yes it was in Ohio; no not here in Hamilton County; no my friend did not point at anything he responded to an ad on BP; no not one word about sex or act, specifically asked for a massage (LOL of course he hoped for HE, but it also was never mentioned or implied)! We (and his legal team) encouraged him to fight it, but the damage was done and his decision was to not make it more specular than it already was... Sad, I know. Anyway keep up the good work. Stay safe and utr..

KT.

I wrote out a long post about a number of points in the recent discussion, but it got lost when I timed out and I'm not going to retype it. My best advice, as a 56 year old who's been playing for a long time, 1, have a lawyer that will answer his phone 24/7. Very hard to find. 2. Pick up a girl, take her to your own room. No bugs we hope, no electronic bugs, clean, plenty of hot water, and no gestapo plant is going to get into your car and go who knows where with you. Just don't discuss activities or fees before she gets into the car and you're rolling. And, some of you might be wondering why I refer to them as the gestapo, well, I've unfortunately been in their clutches more than once, and believe me that if you think the american police are nice, kind peace officers you are out of your minds. And very, very wrong.

Cheech.

[QUOTE=ToddCincy;2050020] what about situations which only *imply* exchanging $$ for goodies?

For example:

- LE arrests a provider / agency and they discover my information in the agency's database.

- A provider has keyed my address into her GPS.

- LE observes me entering a hotel room where a provider is working.

- A burner number with appointment-setting calls to various providers is traced to me.

Now, all of these scenarios reasonably prove that I have contacted providers, invited them to my home, visited them in motel rooms. Are these sufficient for arrest? Or would I be able to remain silent and rely on the "burden of proof" concept. (I.e.: It isn't illegal for me to visit a woman in a hotel room--but if the woman is working as a provider, is guilt "assumable" even if not specifically proven?) In other words, at what point does reasonable assumption override a strict need for proof?

Anyone?[/QUOTE]All the above scenarios would be enough to burden you with questioning in suspicion of committing a crime or more likely merely as an investigation to see if you might incriminate yourself. That does happen ya know, mongers get nervous and start talking too much and next thing you know they have spilled the beans on themselves.

Of all the scenarios above, visual evidence by LEO of you entering a hotel room where there is suspicion of criminal activity, aka solicitation and / or prostitution would be enough for you to be questioned and arrested. This type of arrest rarely culminates in convictions, but keep in mind they could give a shit about conviction they are merely interested in the prosecution or the rendering the chgs. After all that is the biggest penalty to most anyone of us, being chg'd, booked, photographed, photo circulated by these scumbag websites for months and years to come. The charges could have long since been bargained or dropped, but guess what, the photos and online evidence goes on forever; unless maybe you buy your way off of each website. (sort of like buying a blackmailed photo, there is always another negative somewhere).

I know of several who have been chg'd and runined by this process, but they were not convicted. Chg's were loose but they were made to be believers in the process. LEO can and does run a rouge operation (for the greater good, in their opinion). As Cheech says, they are scum and are the gustapo, plain and simple. They will fuck over anyone who they perceive as engaging in the hobby whether they have air tight probable cause or not. They will let the chips fall where they may and do so with the support of those who are elected or appointed to UPHOLD the LAW. Barf!

[QUOTE=BlackBird77;2051749]Guys please watch out. I was on a date with a SB at the Erlanger Econolodge because I had dreamed there before and it was convenient for us to meet there. LE arrived in the parking lot after a while. PM me for details. I won't go back there.[/QUOTE]This is the same place recently flagged by Dman I believe as a hot spot under surveillance for our favorite activity. Our esteemed and much adored Remmy stayed there and recently moved due to all this turmoil. Some were doubtful of the veracity of the Dman's report. Perhaps this helps support his earlier statements.

They might try something like that with those scenarios. Even more likely, though is that they would try to use the info and maybe the girl or another girl to entrap you into a situation where they could create some serious problems. That's what you really have to be worried about. Even going into a room with a provider, if they tried to arrest me for that I would immediately have my lawyers file a lawsuit alleging violation of my constitutional right of free assembly. I would make myself such a pain in the ass they would drop everything just to try to make me go away.

Cheech.

[QUOTE=Varoom;2051511]All the above scenarios would be enough to burden you with questioning in suspicion of committing a crime or more likely merely as an investigation to see if you might incriminate yourself. That does happen ya know, mongers get nervous and start talking too much and next thing you know they have spilled the beans on themselves.

Of all the scenarios above, visual evidence by LEO of you entering a hotel room where there is suspicion of criminal activity, aka solicitation and / or prostitution would be enough for you to be questioned and arrested. This type of arrest rarely culminates in convictions, but keep in mind they could give a shit about conviction they are merely interested in the prosecution or the rendering the chgs. After all that is the biggest penalty to most anyone of us, being chg'd, booked, photographed, photo circulated by these scumbag websites for months and years to come. The charges could have long since been bargained or dropped, but guess what, the photos and online evidence goes on forever; unless maybe you buy your way off of each website. (sort of like buying a blackmailed photo, there is always another negative somewhere).

I know of several who have been chg'd and runined by this process, but they were not convicted. Chg's were loose but they were made to be believers in the process. LEO can and does run a rouge operation (for the greater good, in their opinion). As Cheech says, they are scum and are the gustapo, plain and simple. They will fuck over anyone who they perceive as engaging in the hobby whether they have air tight probable cause or not. They will let the chips fall where they may and do so with the support of those who are elected or appointed to UPHOLD the LAW. Barf![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cheech1;2052243]They might try something like that with those scenarios. Even more likely, though is that they would try to use the info and maybe the girl or another girl to entrap you into a situation where they could create some serious problems. That's what you really have to be worried about. Even going into a room with a provider, if they tried to arrest me for that I would immediately have my lawyers file a lawsuit alleging violation of my constitutional right of free assembly. I would make myself such a pain in the ass they would drop everything just to try to make me go away.

Cheech.[/QUOTE]I think what will happen eventually is a senior with no job or SO to worry about that is retired and enjoys the hobby (thanks to the blue pill) will take on these thugs with help from the ACLU (not big fan of them but oh well). These violations of freedom could be slowly dealt with in this victimless crime.

[QUOTE=SecretAgent007;2049940]In almost every jurisdiction, you should be able to find an ex-prosecutor or ex-assistant prosecutor who is in private practice. That is who I would seriously consider interviewing and potentially hiring if I needed an attorney in a criminal matter for several reasons including, but not limited to: (1) he / she would already know how the local Prosecutor's Office operates; (2) he / she should already know the prosecutor and assistant prosecutors in that office, as well as all or nearly all of the local judges (so they already have established credibility in most instances); and (3) who they know (as well as who they blow) is very important in these types of situations, IMHO.

And I also think it is very prudent to already have an attorney "on-board" and in your corner before any actual need arises!

--SA007.[/QUOTE]My experience has been that a 24/7/365 atty on retainer starts at 12,000 year. That gives you so much leverage against the quasi-legal machinations of the unfortunate misguided popo who otherwise are doing a great job.

[QUOTE=Cheech1;2052243]They might try something like that with those scenarios. Even more likely, though is that they would try to use the info and maybe the girl or another girl to entrap you into a situation where they could create some serious problems. That's what you really have to be worried about. Even going into a room with a provider, if they tried to arrest me for that I would immediately have my lawyers file a lawsuit alleging violation of my constitutional right of free assembly. I would make myself such a pain in the ass they would drop everything just to try to make me go away.

Cheech.[/QUOTE]I hope you never have to defend those words or act on that intention Cheech. I would suppose that you aren't married or have a S / O either; or a job that you could be released from over some presumed morals clause.? After all, for those that do have one or the other, the biggest downside of an arrest is not the conviction but the arrest and the publicity and fallout that goes along with such an act. Potential job and family implications that begin immediately following such an event. What good would it do the guy who loses his job and / or family over such an arrest to later file a suit to get the action dropped? I guess we are looking at this differently.

Again, the popo doesn't have to be right, they rely on the legal system to protect them, and it does it well. Either they have evidence or they don't. If they do and it is a slam dunk case maybe they prosecute toward a conviction. If evidence is messy or even a stretch the system relies on the Def (or their legal Counsel) to be motivated to cut a deal. Does your lawyer give two shits about the evidence or lack thereof, not really. The more evidence the more fee that they chg you. The less evidence then they tell you that you can do x, why, z (puffed representation) to the county or popo offc; again more fees. What do most people want when they get mixed up in something like that; they want it dropped and over with. BUT, if you happen to be the poor slob with the s / o or job that is affected, then what? Most cases like this either get reduced, dropped or expunged; rarely a conviction. What the popo and system relies on is that word gets around that x number of johns or ladies got busted. That publicity (word travels fast) does more for them than a 100 man stake out. Enuf said on it for me. Good luck.

Gents, I do have to admit that I don't have a S.O. at the moment, haven't had one for a long time for various reasons. So I don't have to worry about that. Also, I work in the family business, no one is going to fire me for bad publicity. In fact, I have done time, I'm what they call "hardened." I'm not afraid of jail or prison. So I can take the positions I take. I feel for those of you who have those problems, I was at one time, in your shoes, married, kids, house, mortgage, worked for a family fraternal, all kinds of state licenses. It would have been a problem then. So now if I run into trouble I'm the point of the sword.

Cheech.

[QUOTE=Cheech1;2052243] Even going into a room with a provider, if they tried to arrest me for that I would immediately have my lawyers file a lawsuit alleging violation of my constitutional right of free assembly. I would make myself such a pain in the ass they would drop everything just to try to make me go away. Cheech.[/QUOTE]It doesn't work that way.

I give a shout out to all the seasoned posters on here lending their opinion, personal beliefs on this subject. Any time I start seeing usernames with larger post counts it's certainly a topic that's gained the attention of those who enjoy the fringe.

I'm just new to the 'times' today whereby I'm dealing with cells, cameras, digital age not experienced before. My cell phone back then was a radioactive brick that stayed attached in the vehicle. 2 years and learning the values but they are certainly appreciated, responses to my statements.

Flying leaps and dares have their place in the hobby. I'm going to say I've done it after getting restless in an endless search trying to find intel before satisfying the craving.

Those statements are definitely true about Econolodge. A certain provider is always trying to get me to meet her there and it's not going to happen.

Here's a statement I hope this sinks to everyone in producing a thought process into print:

I'm sure a good percentage that never manage to voice an opinion can be a very big part of the traffic that makes it to a provider. RemmyLynn, someone I've wanted to dream of has almost a cult following with the great reviews, very descript reviews at that.

As much as I wanted to dream that dream, I'm no fool to know that the activity swell 'here' can magnify even larger outside these walls to those UTR. Traffic. That in my opinion builds a fear that I'm not willing to get into because it's like a good looking woman broke down on the side of the road waving her bra wanting help. It simply draws too much attention.

Just my opinion. I just think activity spawns danger ten fold and as much as I like the rose garden, you'll find me hanging out in the tulips, even dandelion patches just to keep all bee stings to a minimum.

[QUOTE=NKY747;2052820]I give a shout out to all the seasoned posters on here lending their opinion, personal beliefs on this subject. Any time I start seeing usernames with larger post counts it's certainly a topic that's gained the attention of those who enjoy the fringe.

I'm just new to the 'times' today whereby I'm dealing with cells, cameras, digital age not experienced before. My cell phone back then was a radioactive brick that stayed attached in the vehicle. 2 years and learning the values but they are certainly appreciated, responses to my statements.

Flying leaps and dares have their place in the hobby. I'm going to say I've done it after getting restless in an endless search trying to find intel before satisfying the craving.

Those statements are definitely true about Econolodge. A certain provider is always trying to get me to meet her there and it's not going to happen.

Here's a statement I hope this sinks to everyone in producing a thought process into print:

I'm sure a good percentage that never manage to voice an opinion can be a very big part of the traffic that makes it to a provider. RemmyLynn, someone I've wanted to dream of has almost a cult following with the great reviews, very descript reviews at that.

As much as I wanted to dream that dream, I'm no fool to know that the activity swell 'here' can magnify even larger outside these walls to those UTR. Traffic. That in my opinion builds a fear that I'm not willing to get into because it's like a good looking woman broke down on the side of the road waving her bra wanting help. It simply draws too much attention.

Just my opinion. I just think activity spawns danger ten fold and as much as I like the rose garden, you'll find me hanging out in the tulips, even dandelion patches just to keep all bee stings to a minimum.[/QUOTE]As a kid, I got more bee stings from running through the dandelion filled grass. I never got stung running past the rose bushes. Just sayin.

[QUOTE=BuyingSmiles;2053080]As a kid, I got more bee stings from running through the dandelion filled grass. I never got stung running past the rose bushes. Just sayin.[/QUOTE] walk without shoes, know your territory. You didn't mention the many thorns found in the roses.

See below. Play safe.

[URL]http://m.wlwt.com/news/city-to-block-parts-of-mcmicken-st-to-fight-prostitution/25716714[/URL]

I'd recommend all ya make this site private or verify your profile with a phone number caus3 it looks like this site is being monitored.

[blue]That's nothing new, we appreciate all free publicity. The guys that come here know to take care of themselves.

A2[/blue]

[QUOTE=Captspaulding;2085091]I'd recommend all ya make this site private or verify your profile with a phone number caus3 it looks like this site is being monitored.

[blue]That's nothing new, we appreciate all free publicity. The guys that come here know to take care of themselves.

A2[/blue][/QUOTE]First of all the government has no clue. She said 90 percent of all women in the trade are pimped. Yes there is a high number but not that high. If a girl is truly pimped I will not see her, I know heidi is. She called him her boss. Legalize and then the trade will go main stream, and be safer. She is only worried about her re election, typical politician.

The idiots who run Cincinnati have to know that setting up barricades isn't going to get rid of the prostitution situation. The paper and radio and TV stations keep reporting that residents down where the cops are putting barricades are getting pissed off because it's creating a logjam of streetwalkers in one of those neighborhoods. It's in an area where a lot of families with kids live. Get smart, Cincy idiots. Prostitution will never go away. You keep saying the drug problem is enhanced by prostitution. If you want to get rid of the drugs, like you keep saying you do, catch the dealers and give them REAL prison sentences like they do in Indiana. A friend of mine knew a heroine dealer in Dayton who got busted by the feds back in 2006, and guess what. He was out in two years because he ratted out his buddies. Catch the dealers and don't make deals with them. Put them away for 10 years on the FIRST offense and then they will learn.

[URL]http://www.fox19.com/story/25396472/cincinnati-installs-prostitution-barricades[/URL]

BFDeal.

Just saw this ill be staying away.

[URL]http://www.wlwt.com/news/nky-man-indicted-in-federal-human-trafficking-case/26096538[/URL]

[QUOTE=SilkyWetness;2100037]Just saw this ill be staying away.

[URL]http://www.wlwt.com/news/nky-man-indicted-in-federal-human-trafficking-case/26096538[/URL][/QUOTE]I saw an ad recently, looking for a driver, I thought, hmmm, easy money, sexy women, why not?

After reading this, NO WAY.

[QUOTE=Deadbeat;2100146]I saw an ad recently, looking for a driver, I thought, hmmm, easy money, sexy women, why not?

After reading this, NO WAY.[/QUOTE]Be careful guys, I beleive they were some of the girls here involved in this also. Be careful there are LEO's amongst us too.

You may have been with a couple of these girls and not known, there are a couple that have dispearred from here since this has come about.

The Quality Hotel in Norwood was just shut down rather suddenly, with no warning. Anyone know why? I heard there were some people who used it as an incall. I hope no one got caught in the craziness.

http://www.wlwt.com/news/court-order-temporarily-closes-norwood-hotel/26287508#!TKo5G

[QUOTE=DNut;2110424]The Quality Hotel in Norwood was just shut down rather suddenly, with no warning. Anyone know why? I heard there were some people who used it as an incall. I hope no one got caught in the craziness. [/QUOTE]I have had some first hand experience with the city of Norwood's leadership. They have way to many chiefs looking to make a name for themselves!

[QUOTE=Cintixtreme;2110469]http://www. wlwt. com/news/court-order-temporarily-closes-norwood-hotel/26287508#!TKo5G[/QUOTE]In the 70's this was the place for visiting parents of Xavier Students, businessmen visiting GM, American Playing Card, Zumbiel packaging to stay. Very good restaurant called Dockside VI was located there. I once even attended a high end wedding in the ballroom.

How things do change.

[QUOTE=DNut;2110424]The Quality Hotel in Norwood was just shut down rather suddenly, with no warning. Anyone know why? I heard there were some people who used it as an incall. I hope no one got caught in the craziness. [/QUOTE]This is just the beginning. In order for the City of Norwood to justify a court order shutting down a business for criminal activities, they have to prove those activities were taking place. They've been watching and investigating for a while, so if you are a provider who stayed there or a client who visited there, your face is on security video, your car has been photographed in the parking lot, and Norwood's finest may be knocking on your door. They even mentioned a prostitute who was such a regular, she was getting reduced rates. They've already seen the guest registry, reviewed the tapes, and interviewed the employees. This may end badly for some of those on this board. Let's hope I'm wrong. Be safe.