[URL]http://madison.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_w/barbiexxxx/342787252558[/URL]
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[URL]http://madison.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_w/barbiexxxx/342787252558[/URL]
[QUOTE=Flagrant;4750369][URL]http://madison.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_w/barbiexxxx/342787252558[/URL][/QUOTE]I misspelled it. Apparently, there are 4 x's: Barbiexxxx.
I'm only bothering to follow up to facilitate future searches finding relevant information.
Imagine driving all the way out to Richland Center just to get ripped off by this girl:
[URL]http://madison.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_w/will-rob-you-100/201692956740[/URL]
I haven't been ripped off, but I've been tempted to see her.
[QUOTE=Flagrant;4759378]Imagine driving all the way out to Richland Center just to get ripped off by this girl:
[URL]http://madison.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_w/will-rob-you-100/201692956740[/URL]
I haven't been ripped off, but I've been tempted to see her.[/QUOTE]Aside from her being a rip off, I would suggest nobody believe the very few ads for rc (I've seen a few over the years) town is full of drugs and thieves and l. E. are typical small town corrupt Barney fifes.
SIGH! I was ripped off by her last night. Tried to purchase a BJ video (only reason I believed her was because she sent screenshot of video) from her and as soon as money was sent I never heard from her again. I know I'm an idiot for believing that some stripper / hooker from Milwaukee will follow-through on her word so you don't need to say anything.
You've been warned.
[QUOTE=Stk1983;4775389]SIGH! I was ripped off by her last night. Tried to purchase a BJ video (only reason I believed her was because she sent screenshot of video) from her and as soon as money was sent I never heard from her again. I know I'm an idiot for believing that some stripper / hooker from Milwaukee will follow-through on her word so you don't need to say anything.
You've been warned.[/QUOTE]Thanks for reporting. She just quoted me $280 for an hour. I might pay that if I could fuck her in the ass for the entire time and then cum in her mouth and watch her swallow. LOL.
[URL]http://madison.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_w/west-incall-ladybugg-bacmk-in/404754057976[/URL]
This girl will lie to you to get you to see her, change the rates on you and then literally steal your stuff.
I made the mistake of having her come to me at my location, for her to steal my wifes makeup bag and a few medications.
[QUOTE=Kazmocon;4798100][URL]http://madison.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_w/west-incall-ladybugg-bacmk-in/404754057976[/URL]
This girl will lie to you to get you to see her, change the rates on you and then literally steal your stuff.
I made the mistake of having her come to me at my location, for her to steal my wifes makeup bag and a few medications.[/QUOTE]Lets get her out of here so she can't do this to anyone else.
[URL]https://madison.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_w/west-south-side-ladybugg-avail/161277655375[/URL]
She is still posting and ripping more people off. You've been warned.
[QUOTE=Crisler;4743292]Here are the pics she sent me. Is that Autumn?[/QUOTE]Anybody still in touch with Autumn?
[QUOTE=Crisler;4809030]Anybody still in touch with Autumn?[/QUOTE]I met Autumn once when she still did home visits, before she started scamming like an idiot. Gave a great sensual massage, at the end she asked if I wanted anything else and I asked for a tit job, she didn't know what it was until I literally explained it to her and she happily obliged. Those knockers were magnificently firm. One of the best pops I've ever had.
That was a long time ago. An absolute shame she's resorted to incalls of scamming people. She had potential.
[QUOTE=FezDispenser;4815717]I met Autumn once when she still did home visits, before she started scamming like an idiot. Gave a great sensual massage, at the end she asked if I wanted anything else and I asked for a tit job, she didn't know what it was until I literally explained it to her and she happily obliged. Those knockers were magnificently firm. One of the best pops I've ever had.
That was a long time ago. An absolute shame she's resorted to incalls of scamming people. She had potential.[/QUOTE]It was about a year ago. The old blue couch. Fond memories.
[QUOTE=Kazmocon;4798100][URL]http://madison.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_w/west-incall-ladybugg-bacmk-in/404754057976[/URL]
This girl will lie to you to get you to see her, change the rates on you and then literally steal your stuff.
I made the mistake of having her come to me at my location, for her to steal my wifes makeup bag and a few medications.[/QUOTE]Never, and I mean NEVER EVER have a provider come to your house. I don't care if it's a nun raising money for the orphans the easiest way she knows how. Even long term UTRs change over time. The honest girl you trust with your life develops a crack habit, a bad boyfriend, or a bad boyfriend's crack habit. If they're on heroin, they will steal the shadows of your wall. Worse, once they know how good your furnishings are, they watch when your wife goes to work, your kids go to school, and when you're out to lunch (like you were when you had her over in the first place). Now it's time to back the truck up. Jesus.
Rent a hotel room. You and a couple of buddies rent a shitty apartment for a Boom-boom room and if the witch steals your sound system, you're only out the boom box you bought back in the 80's.
So again, don't ever have a hooker over to your domicile. Now that she knows where you live, and she has your phone number, you'll love getting the call that she's going to drop by and meet your wife.
Have your big head talk to your little head. If it doesn't want to listen, beat some sense into it until it barfs all over the bathroom sink. You'll be glad you did.
Coochie (how do you think I know this?) Eater.
God Bless You All.
[QUOTE=CoochieEater;4847405]Never, and I mean NEVER EVER have a provider come to your house. I don't care if it's a nun raising money for the orphans the easiest way she knows how. Even long term UTRs change over time. The honest girl you trust with your life develops a crack habit, a bad boyfriend, or a bad boyfriend's crack habit. If they're on heroin, they will steal the shadows of your wall. Worse, once they know how good your furnishings are, they watch when your wife goes to work, your kids go to school, and when you're out to lunch (like you were when you had her over in the first place). Now it's time to back the truck up. Jesus.
Rent a hotel room. You and a couple of buddies rent a shitty apartment for a Boom-boom room and if the witch steals your sound system, you're only out the boom box you bought back in the 80's.
So again, don't ever have a hooker over to your domicile. Now that she knows where you live, and she has your phone number, you'll love getting the call that she's going to drop by and meet your wife.
Have your big head talk to your little head. If it doesn't want to listen, beat some sense into it until it barfs all over the bathroom sink. You'll be glad you did.
Coochie (how do you think I know this?) Eater.
God Bless You All.[/QUOTE]I have girls over all the time. Have never ever ever ever had a problem.
[QUOTE=SconnieNation7;4848155]I have girls over all the time. Have never ever ever ever had a problem[/QUOTE]Yet.
Obviously, the guy who started these posts had a problem on his first go-round. Even in hotel rooms, I've caught providers trying to get my wallet. So you're Mr. Lucky. Good for you. Until it happens.
I've eaten tons of pussy and never caught a dose. Until I did. Getting gonorrhea in your lips is no fucking fun. So guys, you play Russian Roulette with your stuff and your relationships, or you can play it safe. It's easy enough to arrange a car date, go to where they're hosting, or beat you dick to internet porn.
Coochie (Play it safe) Eater.
God Bless You All.
I made a rookie mistake and trusted Lexi. Gave her cash to come to me and she no showed after saying several excuses. Saw her a few times before and allowed vary little of what was promised. Hoped the menu opened up but just gave her a donation. Pm for more info if you want. Stay away.
[URL]https://madison.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_e/its-too-nice-out-today-to-be-a/006765952878[/URL]
[QUOTE=Bwa123;4854273]I made a rookie mistake and trusted Lexi. Gave her cash to come to me and she no showed after saying several excuses. Saw her a few times before and allowed vary little of what was promised. Hoped the menu opened up but just gave her a donation. Pm for more info if you want. Stay away.
[URL]https://madison.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_e/its-too-nice-out-today-to-be-a/006765952878[/URL][/QUOTE]Sorry to hear about the ripoff. She is one of the best at over promising and under delivering. Don't beat yourself up too bad and learn from the mistake, paying cash up front is way too easy for them to just bail. She has separated me from more of my $ than I care to admit as well. Even a wide open menu with her is limited so you did not miss much.
[QUOTE=Bwa123;4854273]I made a rookie mistake and trusted Lexi. Gave her cash to come to me and she no showed after saying several excuses. Saw her a few times before and allowed vary little of what was promised. Hoped the menu opened up but just gave her a donation. Pm for more info if you want. Stay away.
[URL]https://madison.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_e/its-too-nice-out-today-to-be-a/006765952878[/URL][/QUOTE]I guese it was a miss understanding. Its all good. Just bad timing on my part. I'll give more details later.
[QUOTE=Bwa123;4854441]I guese it was a miss understanding. Its all good. Just bad timing on my part. I'll give more details later.[/QUOTE]It's not "all good" untilyou get your noodle wet or she rfnds your $/.
I've been seeing Allison for a few months now, and I guess I got careless because I've never fealt like she was capable of ripping me off, but not only did she rip me off, she robbed me. I don't usually carry my wallet when I meet a girl, but today I took it with me without thinking. Big mistake. Pretty simple plan she had. I went in, layed down the donation, and got undressed like I always do. She was getting undressed, but then asked if I minded washing my hands since I like to fiv, and she's more worried about germs because of covid. I had no problem with that, so I went into the bathroom and started washing, and just like that she went past the bathroom and out the door! WTF? I figured she was coming back since it was her room (I assume). I waited a half hour while trying to contact her. I finally decided it wasn't happening, so I got dressed, and then realized my wallet was missing. I left and sat out and in the parking lot hoping to catch her somewhere. Finally gave and went home. What should I do? Pretty hard to file a complaint, isn't it?
[QUOTE=NutsyNut;4861711]I've been seeing Allison for a few months now, and I guess I got careless because I've never fealt like she was capable of ripping me off, but not only did she rip me off, she robbed me. I don't usually carry my wallet when I meet a girl, but today I took it with me without thinking. Big mistake. Pretty simple plan she had. I went in, layed down the donation, and got undressed like I always do. She was getting undressed, but then asked if I minded washing my hands since I like to fiv, and she's more worried about germs because of covid. I had no problem with that, so I went into the bathroom and started washing, and just like that she went past the bathroom and out the door! WTF? I figured she was coming back since it was her room (I assume). I waited a half hour while trying to contact her. I finally decided it wasn't happening, so I got dressed, and then realized my wallet was missing. I left and sat out and in the parking lot hoping to catch her somewhere. Finally gave and went home. What should I do? Pretty hard to file a complaint, isn't it?[/QUOTE]That sucks. Just proves you should never let your guard down with these ladies.
Link so others can avoid?
Tough one, depends what was in wallet and your personal situatio. Maybe just chalk up to lesson learned. Obviously report cards etc.
Always amazed how short sighted some are to RIP off a regular. My guess is she is leaving or thinks you will do nothing.
[QUOTE=MadTownMan1;4862415]That sucks. Just proves you should never let your guard down with these ladies.
Link so others can avoid?
Tough one, depends what was in wallet and your personal situatio. Maybe just chalk up to lesson learned. Obviously report cards etc.
Always amazed how short sighted some are to RIP off a regular. My guess is she is leaving or thinks you will do nothing.[/QUOTE]Wow, that sucks. I never take my wallet with me. So she has your ID?
One time I left a girl in my car while I went into the hotel to check in. I'd gotten the room. But then I realized, my registration is in my glove compartment. She could have looked in there to see my real name. I don't know if she did. But now I never leave a girl in my car alone. And I lock my wallet in the glove compartment.
[QUOTE=MadTownMan1;4862415]That sucks. Just proves you should never let your guard down with these ladies.
Link so others can avoid?
Tough one, depends what was in wallet and your personal situatio. Maybe just chalk up to lesson learned. Obviously report cards etc.
Always amazed how short sighted some are to RIP off a regular. My guess is she is leaving or thinks you will do nothing.[/QUOTE][URL]https://madison.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_w/for-the-next-2-hours-new-speci/034116451993[/URL]
I reported the cards and drivers license. I also had a couple hundred in cash, but as much as it pissed me off, at least it's just cash. I feel pretty stupid, but I have learned a pretty good lesson without getting hurt. I still worry about blackmail with her though since she now knows my true identity. Bottom line is to never take anything except for cash when seeing these girls, no matter how many times you've seen her.
[QUOTE=NutsyNut;4862492][URL]https://madison.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_w/for-the-next-2-hours-new-speci/034116451993[/URL]
I reported the cards and drivers license. I also had a couple hundred in cash, but as much as it pissed me off, at least it's just cash. I feel pretty stupid, but I have learned a pretty good lesson without getting hurt. I still worry about blackmail with her though since she now knows my true identity. Bottom line is to never take anything except for cash when seeing these girls, no matter how many times you've seen her.[/QUOTE]Just curious, are you married or have significant other? If so it must be a pita to explain what happened to your wallet, LOL. If not, I would set up another meet under a different identity to get some payback. Not talking violence, just give them the chance to make amends. I did something like it about 15 years ago. Got a little satisfaction back.
[QUOTE=NutsyNut;4862492][URL]https://madison.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_w/for-the-next-2-hours-new-speci/034116451993[/URL]
I reported the cards and drivers license. I also had a couple hundred in cash, but as much as it pissed me off, at least it's just cash. I feel pretty stupid, but I have learned a pretty good lesson without getting hurt. I still worry about blackmail with her though since she now knows my true identity. Bottom line is to never take anything except for cash when seeing these girls, no matter how many times you've seen her.[/QUOTE]Sorry to hear about the rip off and her stealing your wallet! That is an excellent point about not bringing your wallet in, I have let my guard down as well and done the same thing but not any more. That has to be a shitty feeling to say the least. I am sure you already have, but cancelling the credit cards a very good idea also. It is an expensive lesson, but thanks for sharing, you probably will save some others some $ including myself as a reminder to be more careful. I am hopeful her phone is no longer ringing and she will move on now that you have posted this.
[QUOTE=RawlSocket;4862505]Just curious, are you married or have significant other? If so it must be a pita to explain what happened to your wallet, LOL. If not, I would set up another meet under a different identity to get some payback. Not talking violence, just give them the chance to make amends. I did something like it about 15 years ago. Got a little satisfaction back.[/QUOTE]Yeah although likelyhood of seeing her once she sees you coming is not good. Better yet schedule appointments from burner text now apps and then cancel stating you saw the RIP off report.
Best we can do is make these girls famous until they go away.
[QUOTE=MadTownMan1;4862529]Yeah although likelyhood of seeing her once she sees you coming is not good. Better yet schedule appointments from burner text now apps and then cancel stating you saw the RIP off report.
Best we can do is make these girls famous until they go away.[/QUOTE]One of my favorite forms of payback is to find out where a girl is. Say she's east. And invite her to do outcall on the other side of town, west. String her along until she shows up. Then just stop responding. Or say you met someone in the hotel bar who agreed to fuck for free. LOL.
Use a burner number, like a throwaway textnow number. And just completely abandon it. I don't sit around waiting for them to gripe at me over text. I just fire and forget.
[QUOTE=NutsyNut;4862492][URL]https://madison.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_w/for-the-next-2-hours-new-speci/034116451993[/URL]
I reported the cards and drivers license. I also had a couple hundred in cash, but as much as it pissed me off, at least it's just cash. I feel pretty stupid, but I have learned a pretty good lesson without getting hurt. I still worry about blackmail with her though since she now knows my true identity. Bottom line is to never take anything except for cash when seeing these girls, no matter how many times you've seen her.[/QUOTE]It happens, it's good you're not letting it get you down. I've changed my mindset completely on never getting " friendly ". I don't even like to repeat all that often even if it helps with references for better quality. I've got that covered. I'm just there for the pussy and nothing else. Thank you for reporting this, that is really the important thing.
[QUOTE=NutsyNut;4862492][URL]https://madison.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_w/for-the-next-2-hours-new-speci/034116451993[/URL]
I reported the cards and drivers license. I also had a couple hundred in cash, but as much as it pissed me off, at least it's just cash. I feel pretty stupid, but I have learned a pretty good lesson without getting hurt. I still worry about blackmail with her though since she now knows my true identity. Bottom line is to never take anything except for cash when seeing these girls, no matter how many times you've seen her.[/QUOTE]A friend of mine from a previous life does some fairly sketchy things in his spare time. He carries a throwaway wallet. It gives them a target in they think they've got something but they don't. A little cash but no legit I'd or credit cards. I'm not advocating or suggesting this but he went on line and had fake law enforcement I'd made up. I think fake FBI I'd. That way if someone steals his wallet their shitting bricks for a while. He keeps his regular I'd and wallet in his vehicle.
[URL]https://escortfish.ch/ad/view/let-s-fuck-100-outcalls-pls/30743796[/URL]
Every issue you can imagine. Price change last second, she was 10 min away for about an hour. Started session and she left after the first round for a condom supposedly and left. Texted and said she ws at the door when I was standing there and tried to say I wasnt there. Than hours of 'I'm coming back' before radio silence. Pretty girl but sketchy.
Was she good the other times? She comes to the Fox Valley occasionally and appears to be the hottest real girl by far.
I'd be tempted to damage her room so she could never return there.
[QUOTE=NutsyNut;4861711]I've been seeing Allison for a few months now, and I guess I got careless because I've never fealt like she was capable of ripping me off, but not only did she rip me off, she robbed me. I don't usually carry my wallet when I meet a girl, but today I took it with me without thinking. Big mistake. Pretty simple plan she had. I went in, layed down the donation, and got undressed like I always do. She was getting undressed, but then asked if I minded washing my hands since I like to fiv, and she's more worried about germs because of covid. I had no problem with that, so I went into the bathroom and started washing, and just like that she went past the bathroom and out the door! WTF? I figured she was coming back since it was her room (I assume). I waited a half hour while trying to contact her. I finally decided it wasn't happening, so I got dressed, and then realized my wallet was missing. I left and sat out and in the parking lot hoping to catch her somewhere. Finally gave and went home. What should I do? Pretty hard to file a complaint, isn't it?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=NutsyNut;4861711]I've been seeing Allison for a few months now, and I guess I got careless because I've never fealt like she was capable of ripping me off, but not only did she rip me off, she robbed me. I don't usually carry my wallet when I meet a girl, but today I took it with me without thinking. Big mistake. Pretty simple plan she had. I went in, layed down the donation, and got undressed like I always do. She was getting undressed, but then asked if I minded washing my hands since I like to fiv, and she's more worried about germs because of covid. I had no problem with that, so I went into the bathroom and started washing, and just like that she went past the bathroom and out the door! WTF? I figured she was coming back since it was her room (I assume). I waited a half hour while trying to contact her. I finally decided it wasn't happening, so I got dressed, and then realized my wallet was missing. I left and sat out and in the parking lot hoping to catch her somewhere. Finally gave and went home. What should I do? Pretty hard to file a complaint, isn't it?[/QUOTE]About a year ago I thought I had an apt. Set up with her, but then for no reason she ghosted me. I guess I got off with an easy lesson. As far as having a relationship with a provider for a few months and then it heads south, I am not surprised. Who knows what goes on in these women's lives. Well, I guess we can all imagine. She needed money and you had become an easy mark. One of my favorite providers who I trusted changed overtime, though nothing like this. The reminder that you provided for me is never trust a provider. Regardless. Always be on alert. Stay with your protocols. Thanks for sharing.
[QUOTE=BooRadley72;4862634]A friend of mine from a previous life does some fairly sketchy things in his spare time. He carries a throwaway wallet. It gives them a target in they think they've got something but they don't. A little cash but no legit I'd or credit cards. I'm not advocating or suggesting this but he went on line and had fake law enforcement I'd made up. I think fake FBI I'd. That way if someone steals his wallet their shitting bricks for a while. He keeps his regular I'd and wallet in his vehicle.[/QUOTE]I use AMPs, and carry a wallet with pretty nice looking fake cash off WISH, and a few other things, like an old no name dedit card. If I ever get scammed, I'll just report the card stolen via pickpocket, and that way if they try to use the fake cash or stolen card, they are busted. The AMPs won't fall for the fake cash because of the Chinese symbols on it, but a local might. I'm suprised that these girls are allowed to get away with ripping people off.
[URL]https://madison.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_w/are-you-ready/758627122386[/URL]
[URL]https://skipthegames.com/img/009/NTE1NDYzNjg4YmUyNDhkOGVmYjBiY2Y2MDE3YzY1NzQyMDM3Zjg.jpg[/URL]
Seems legit. Responsive on texts price wasn't terrible gave donation. She went to freshen up in bathroom didn't think much of it. Next thing you know her "boyfriend" is banging the door down. Typical set up if you ask me.
Reposting here.
Avoid this. Black guy shows up as soon as you handover donation.
Pics are her many moons ago!!
Sounds very real on texts. Will send verification pics but outcome is rip off.
Hosting at Howard Jo!!
Here are the pics she may send.
[URL]https://imgur.com/a/OJ8LFJG[/URL]
[URL]https://imgur.com/a/dwHY7rf[/URL]
[URL]https://imgur.com/a/x9BP1y3[/URL]
Her Post - [URL]https://madison.skipthegames.com/fem...y/246922821930.[/URL].
Last 4 of her number is 2817.
Here is her newest ad from Monday, July 6th
https://madison.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_w/ill-take-you-too-the-moon-and/644987010328
[QUOTE=TommyMke;4865474]Reposting here.
Avoid this. Black guy shows up as soon as you handover donation.
Pics are her many moons ago!!
Sounds very real on texts. Will send verification pics but outcome is rip off.
Hosting at Howard Jo!!
Here are the pics she may send.
[URL]https://imgur.com/a/OJ8LFJG[/URL]
[URL]https://imgur.com/a/dwHY7rf[/URL]
[URL]https://imgur.com/a/x9BP1y3[/URL]
Her Post - [URL]https://madison.skipthegames.com/fem...y/246922821930.[/URL].
Last 4 of her number is 2817.
Here is her newest ad from Monday, July 6th
https://madison.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_w/ill-take-you-too-the-moon-and/644987010328[/QUOTE]Thanks for keeping us safe.
[QUOTE=TommyMke;4865474]Reposting here.
Avoid this. Black guy shows up as soon as you handover donation.
Pics are her many moons ago!!
Sounds very real on texts. Will send verification pics but outcome is rip off.
Hosting at Howard Jo!!
Here are the pics she may send.
[URL]https://imgur.com/a/OJ8LFJG[/URL]
[URL]https://imgur.com/a/dwHY7rf[/URL]
[URL]https://imgur.com/a/x9BP1y3[/URL]
Her Post - [URL]https://madison.skipthegames.com/fem...y/246922821930.[/URL].
Last 4 of her number is 2817.
Here is her newest ad from Monday, July 6th
https://madison.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_w/ill-take-you-too-the-moon-and/644987010328[/QUOTE]She's back at it!! Beware.
[URL]https://madison.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_w/thick-thighs-pretty-eyes-beaut/015500195439[/URL]
[QUOTE=TommyMke;4871241]She's back at it!! Beware.
[URL]https://madison.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_w/thick-thighs-pretty-eyes-beaut/015500195439[/URL][/QUOTE]I'm sorry that happened to you. I appreciate you reporting it. I'll contact her to see if I can get her to come to an outcall. Just to fuck with her.
[QUOTE=Flagrant;4871739]I'm sorry that happened to you. I appreciate you reporting it. I'll contact her to see if I can get her to come to an outcall. Just to fuck with her.[/QUOTE]I thought I was the only one mean enough to do that. I had a girl go to portage for an overnighter a few years ago.
[QUOTE=Jimbo3216;4865463][URL]https://madison.skipthegames.com/female-escorts/caucasian_w/are-you-ready/758627122386[/URL]
[URL]https://skipthegames.com/img/009/NTE1NDYzNjg4YmUyNDhkOGVmYjBiY2Y2MDE3YzY1NzQyMDM3Zjg.jpg[/URL]
Seems legit. Responsive on texts price wasn't terrible gave donation. She went to freshen up in bathroom didn't think much of it. Next thing you know her "boyfriend" is banging the door down. Typical set up if you ask me.[/QUOTE]Woah. That's a bummer. Tommy said this is Molly. I haven't seen her since her vacation. I wasn't planning to either. She's cute as fuck, but service was always so-so. Oh well, another one falls from the maybe shelf into the never again pile.