Prostitution and Law Enforcement

Mangus Man,

Your post is full of hata of this grand land America. I dsagree with you totally! Even I am not of the side from the LE and police, but still America is the best!

The following is a quote from or grat man Jackson, the provider of this bord, on 01\19\04 "You don't have to like America or Americans to be a member of this Forum, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let anyone use my Forum as a platform for expousing blatant anti-American hate speach."

And I love this roll.

Her555

[size=-2][u]EDITOR's NOTE[/u]: [blue]Posting of this report was delayed pending revisions to [u]fix dozens of simple writing errors[/u] including missing punctuation, peculiar punctuation, missing capitalization, multiple periods throughout the text, etc. To avoid delays in future reports, please proof-read your reports before posting them. Please review the [url=http://www.wsgforum.com/postingguidelines.html]Forum's Posting Guidelines[/url] for further information. [i]Thanks![/i][/blue][/size]

Oh shit... there is more in here?

For the record, I don't mind criticism and don't mind being judged. I get pissy but you already know that. But, some of us are at least reporting from the front lines while others take shots sometimes without reading posts carefully or just to stirr things up. Apologies are welcome but not saying anything in a rush in the first place is better.

juice.

Her555,

"All I am saying is against COUNTRY JOHN! Who in my opinion deserve to been banned from this great board !because he is a lover for or enemy, the LE."

Actually LE is not the enemy. It is the lawmakers and the people like the mayor and police chief who require their officers to enforce laws that are unpopular with mongers. If the law is bad, then let's change it.

"My point is: If someone asks if you've hed sex with a girl, remember: tell him what Nancy Reagan says; just say no."

Actually it's better to say nothing than to be caught in a lie.

CIV2000, can you tell me why you are so angry?

I'm not in the least bit angry.

"WHO SAID: Prostitution and having sex in cars is illegal in the United States."

The law books in 49 out of 50 states say it is illegal.

"WHO SAID: If my two-year-old carries into the house a used condom or syringe a prostitute tossed into your yard.

MY POINT: Comman CIV2000! Did you belive thet going to hapeen. if so, jost lern the two year old. Do not do that! It is dangers!"

Happens all the time where I live Her555. If my two year old gets Hepatitis C from a dirty syringe tossed in my yard, I may not have the chance to warn him of the dangers.

"WHO SAID: Your sixteen-year-old is too afraid to catch the bus because older men in cars stop and try to get her to get in.

MY POINT: That is racist CIV2000, and like I said in my report "cops should be focused on crime's like murders, rapists"

Racist??? High school girls get hit on by mongers all the time while waiting for busses. Heck, my ex-wife used to have three or four cars stop every morning while she was waiting for the bus to work. How is this racist??

"WHO SAID: I think we as mongers have responsibilities.

MY POINT: Sure we have, like or responsibilities to watch to eat health food, or to watch not to get a cold."

Yes, we do have a responsibility as an adult and a responsible monger to make sure our activities don't negatively affect women, children, and those not involved in our activities. Tossing out condoms in residential areas is included.


And lastly, please don't call me "honny". In my country it is a phrase of endearment of a man towards his wife or girlfriend. In my country it is considered "gay" to call another man honny.

I disagree with everything in your report. Everything. Use your head and not your emotions so much when you write and you may make more sense.

Civ2K

juice: i am stalking you:)
jackson: how is life? may i suggest that the **** stuff goes in the **** opinion column you have but in which no one has posted. it is an interesting thread that should be supported.
i also support the idea of having a flame section.
you have put a lot of thought into the sections butposters wander all over the place: photos in this section, discussions in that section etc.
juice's posts were very interesting but maybe they belong in the thai women section. the flaming doesn't belong anywhere and if that goes on, you might have to change the whole ball game. in hte thai photos section, for example, there has been a whole series of posts on the under age section. all of that belonged in either the thai women section or the opinion section.

i know this post does not belong here but i odn't belong anywhere. maybe you need a skinless in sane thread?
time to crack the whip jackson!!@

Angry Civ2K

Racist? I meen to say "rapists"

The following is quotes of your posts.

==================================

07-07-03 Hey, You guys (DeeUncola and Wooly) need to cut the crap. This board is for exchanging info about the hobby---not slamming each other and then posting extremely verbose defenses of oneself. I enjoy both your posts. DeeUncola is quite articulate and offers a humerous perspective of our craft. I read each one of his posts with pleasure. Wooly as well seems to be a seasoned practioner and has numerous reliable posts under his belt. Let's stick to helping each other score quality poon and cut the insults. Thanks, Civ2000

07-21-03 Seattle the idiots (cops).

09-17-03 Seattle If you get robbed you may have to wait 45 minutes for one to show up, but there's never a shortage of motorcycle cops to write you a ticket or parking enforcement to write you a ticket. And now that they get a $500 dollar diversion fee from busted Johns, now we are a target. Just wait till they start conviscating cars, they'll really be going after us. And all the while the pimps and drug dealers and other dangerous criminals will have a pass to do whatever they want.

09-18-03 Seattle Deep Throat, I have just one thing to say: Excellent job with the cops. You did us mongers proud. As for making a note about you and the SW and blah, blah, blah, they're just trying to scare you.

==================================

I still like your reports.

her555

Nah, should be Skinless in HOD thread.


Freeler still MIA?

Magnus Man, I actually agree with you that it's about the money in a lot of ways, though I don't agree with your legal system conspiracy theory. The courts and police generally can manage to get paid simply by enforcing regular crime; there's generally no shortage of that, and three hours of street work by female undercover officers may well result in five hours of paperwork, so it's not as though they're getting something for nothing. (Let alone that they necessarily would like or want such work -- most of the women on the force I knew absolutely hated it.)

Where it is clearly about the money is that penalties such as car seizure, fines, etc. are all about discouraging behavior by attaching financial penalties. The idea that you may forfeit your $12000 car by soliciting for a $20 bj is so ridiculous in terms of economy of scale that a majority of men will be scared off from soliciting because of it, which is precisely the intent of such policies. It's the financial equivalent of giving the death penalty for jaywalking.

I don't think there's anyone here who would argue these approaches are reasonable or supportable. Still, posts and attitudes such as the one from Her555, which basically argues for a monger's right to do whatever he pleases no matter what harm it might cause someone else, are the kind that give fuel to such idiotic financial policies.

I wonder which major US cities impound the car for prostitution ? Can anyone produce a list ? It would be useful to know. I've read that Oakland impounds upon arrest and before conviction, hence a new concept: guilty until proven innocent. I think people should fight this in court, as it is "cruel and unusual punishment" to pay an approximately 15K$ fine (typical cost of a car) for a misdemeanor and usually a first-time offense. But it may be difficult to win since it's a subjective judgement as to what the penalties should be. Also most people caught in prostitution would want to avoid the notoriety of a court battle.

Snake27, The two areas I've heard the most about as far as impounding cars has been the Los Angles area (particularly Long Beach) and New York City/New Jersey. I'm sure there are others, and I believe if the SW has drugs on her the car can be seized by almost anyone.

I also believe the reason that more people don't fight the forfeiture laws is that is would be prohibitively expensive. Fighting the unconstitutionality of a law through several courts could conceivably cost millions. You would have to have a monger with really deep pockets to successfully challenge this law. Hopefully some organization like the ACLU will take up our cause.

Her555, I'm flattered you would take the time to reseach my past reports. I hope you learned something valuable. Hopefully one of these days you can post a report and tell us about a SW you picked up and give us some tips. I'm not knocking you here (that's against the rules) but how about a report or two about "where da hookers?"

Civ2K

Snake27, a quick search reveals that a partial additional list includes Cincinnati, Denver, Detroit, D.C., Lansing (MI), Long Beach, Melbourne *(FL), Miami, Fort Myers, Oklahoma City, Sacramento, St. Petersburg, Waukegan, West Palm Beach,

There are also numerous places in Canada which do the same.

It's worth noting that there was an October decision by the Florida Court of Appeals that invalidated such laws in Hollywood, FL, and calls into question those in West Palm Beach, Dania Beach, Hallandale Beach and Miamim because state law limits such seizures to felonies.

Hey Joe Z,

Thanks for giving thought to my rant. Yes here in Hollywood its a racket pure & simple. When you see our LE system, YOU MUST CONSIDER HOW IT ALL ADDS UP. They always get 20 to 30 guys in a shift. $500 per car, $500 for the court, and $1,500 per lawyer, THE CASH IS MORE THAN THEY CAN RESIST FOR LOW-RISK WORK.

Paperwork? They have evereything pre-filled out, they just put in your name. Perp offered cash for sex, stated $20 for oral sex. IT ABSOLUTELY MATTERS NONE WHAT YOU REALLY SAID. Oh, the tape recording was lost? Well, too bad, there goes the proof that you only asked the girl if she wanted a ride, now your only proof is gone. No not really gone, just stashed in a file somewhere. Guilty because the evidence conveniently vanished. Well then ok, just guilty of being in the wrong place, period!

Punch up the numbers, man. $62,500 a night, twice a week. Each year thats in the millions! And remember, they don't risk anything. Mongers are armed with their penis, not guns. After you're popped, you get a dozen letters in the mail offering you a lawyer. Choose the one who used to be the prosecutor! Yeah that's a smart move because he already knows the racket since HE SET IT UP in the first place. Just write him a check, $1,500, end of your problem. WHEN YOU'RE OWN LAWYER TELLS YOU HE HAS IT FIXED WITH THE COP AND JUDGE BECAUSE HE USED TO BE THE PROSECUTOR, HOW THE FUCK IS THAT NOT A CONSPIRACY??

Her 555.
This has nothing to do with America, these fuckers are criminals, this is legalized extortion. They lie about it in the name of public safety. Its abuse of power. At least when I'm driving with my friend in Kiev at 6:30 in the morning after he picks me up at the train station, and a cop standing in the street makes us stop, demanding $2 because we were not driving in the middle of the street, HE ADMITS THAT ITS BULLSHIT, because he just wants SOME money since he didn't have breakfast and he is hungry. We settle for $1 and he lets us go.

Since I forgot the absolute best fucking part of this, and no one else brought it up, I couldn't finish without mentioning the biggest absurdity of all. That's when the LE stings arrest LAWYERS, COPS, AND JUDGES!!

Oh yeah, let us not forget for a second that they are mongering out there too, just like the rest of us. They're every bit as horny as we are, and their wives aren't giving them head, so they're out cruising for blow jobs too! Or maybe in a different scenario, you recall that movie, can't remember the name, where the very respectable well-known public figure husband explains angrily why he would never put his dick in his wife's mouth, because, "Are you crazy, that's disgusting, that's the mouth that kisses my children!!" So out on the street he goes, looking for SW to get fellatio.

Anyway, of course when somebody with Official Importance gets popped, its always because he was only offereing the young lady in distress a ride to get off the street. That's how the Judge and the Luitenant got their cases dropped, because THEY were innocent. Even though the tape recording clearly could hear the Judge saying "C'mon baby, I'll give you $30, you got such pretty lips!"

OF COURSE THEY LOST THAT TAPE AT THE TRIAL! THERE'S YOUR AMERICAN JUSTICE. FAIR FIRM AND CONSISTENT.

No, I'm not bashing the USA. The system is corrupt EVERYWHERE. Stay out of trouble, and this country is wonderful, best in the world.

Are simple bribes better? A few bucks to get a foreign cop to let you go on your way, maybe yes? Very expensive bribes paid to government agencies to start a business, no. But that is the system in Russia. Monthly bribes just to stay in business, fuck no, that's the mafia's protection racket. $2,500 for offering a ride to a lying female cop dressed up to look like a broke girl out on the street? BULLSHIT! Oh I forgot, that's creative capitalism, isn't it? WHY CAN'T THEY GO ARREST SOME FUCKING CRIMINALS AND LEAVE US MONGERS ALONE? Oh, I forgot, we're easy money!

then fix it....

would cost you some money, and maybe your pride. But I know holywood has all those nice little spy shops that see the small cameras, and the micro-phones. Do your own little sting on the cops :)


but you don;t drop the tape off at the court house, you send a copy of it to every major news paper and TV station in LA. Let the people figure out what is up NOT the cops...

The biggest weapons you have against corruption is your mind and your will. the corruption only exsists cause you and the mongers of the area are unwilling to do anything to stop it. So plan ahead, get your selves organized and then lay it to them!

interesting side note on police stings and what can happen in them. in My city there has not been a police sting op for several years.... not since how the last one turned out ;)

the undercover cop was working the stroll, when a car pulled up and asked her if she needed a right. she said yes. In the car the usual exchange of info went on and and the guy memtioned that he was looking for a girl to be "friendly" for a stag party. Now the stupid undercover cop agrees! she says that she has to let her pimp know the motel and the room number and the guy agrees. So the chick (the cop) gets out of the car and goes to the waiting van filled with police and tells them they have a sweet score and all they have to do is bust into the room 5 minutes after she goes in. They all agree it sounds like a plan! So back to the car she goes and off to the hotel.

At the hotel the chick (cop) goes to the room and sees the 5 guys (more then was expected) and starts to talk price the guys just say "don't worry about it! we got you covered!" and she hums and haws and stalls....

In the mean time the idiots cops in the van get the wrong room number! and they bust into the wrong room! Scaring the ppl in that room and after a few minutes they know they made their mistake and start hunting for their "missing" girl. Eventually thery have to go down to the front office and inquire to get the right room! (all said this takes about 30 minutes!!)


Now, back in the room..... the chick puts off the deed for as long as possible, but doesn't want to "blow" her cover..... To make a longer story short, the Sting cops bust into the room and she is drinking down her protein shake and bust them all for prostitution!

Skip to the trial.... the boys plead not guilty and the crown prosicutor tries to throw the book at them UNTIL...... a video tape comes up!!! It seems one of the boys at the stag had a camcorder on and taped the ENTIRE EXCHANGE!!! since none of the boys had even mentioned paying her any sort of amount of cash and nothing was talked about for cash in the car in a confirmed way (although it was implied in both places) the judge rules that prostitution had not happened!

So, cause the cops got greedy, 5 guys get to say the fed a cop a vanilla shake and have the tape to prove it!

Magnus Man, while I again agree that the whole car-towing stuff is bullshit, I still just don't see how most of your stuff adds up to a big conspiracy, to be honest, as opposed to a crappy and misguided policy. Having paperwork already mostly filled out hardly seems all that surprising -- there are only so many variations on the theme, really, of how something went down, what laws were violated, and of how much was offered for what act. Fitting things into a form is what cops do for any crime, and it's a pain that's more happily taken care of quickly. Cops, lawyers, judges, etc., all get paid the same amount no matter what criminal proceeding is involved, so there's really no more incentive to bust mongers than there is to write tickets or go after dealers beyond the local policies and the political push behind them.

As far as the lawyers, I'm sorry, but that's the way business is done these days -- crimes are public record, and attorneys go after those who have been arrested regardless of the crime, as, yes, they're in it to make money. But that hardly means they're part of some big conspiracy -- that's like saying any auctioneer contacts a family after a public death notice in the hope there's an estate sale to be brokered is part of a conspiracy. Of course someone who's an ex-prosecutor is going to tout that -- his clients are going to think that's an advantage whether it is or isn't. And just because he got something "fixed" doesn't mean there's been any pay-off -- the lawyer happily kept all that -- the majority of all criminal proceedings end in a plea bargain of some kind or a case dropped because of lack of evidence. And thinking that this entire machinery's set up to help ex-prosecutors or other criminal defense lawyers make money is waay too far a stretch.

As far as the whole issue of people of influence getting off, well, gee, surprise, surprise. They can afford even more expensive lawyers who make even better arguments, and the concept that there are different rules for the rich and powerful is not going to surprise anyone. A lawyer who's paid enough can manage to get a whole lot of things suppressed or disappeared. That's an indictment of the court system in general, not as it related to prostitution.

That said, there's little question that cities are interested in income, and push police to do things that bring in money, particularly cash cows. That can be anything from writing lots of parking or speeding tickets to sending out building or health inspectors to give fines to doing seizures of cars from mongers. , Catching rapists and murderers is expensive and hell on the bottom line, and in these days of demands for services and tight budgets locales always look to maximize income however they can. But that's not the same as saying it's a corrupt system -- it's saying there's a business aspect behind it.

(BTW - bravo for your photos in the Russia section!)

And great story, RX-7 -- where did that happen? Gotta say it's rare to find a female police officer that dedicated to her job... :)